Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 191. Donor Engagement Kindergarten Style: Use Your Listening Ears- Jonathan McCoy and CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE

Transcript

191. Donor Engagement Kindergarten Style: Use Your Listening Ears- Jonathan McCoy and CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:05
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started.
• 0:36
  Becky Endicott: Hey, Becky, Happy Friday, everybody. It's
• 0:38
  Jonathan McCoy: Friday, and we're back to the kindergarten series. Did
• 0:41
  Becky Endicott: you bring your listening ears today,
• 0:43
  Jonathan McCoy: there's your spoiler alert. So the last few weeks, we've been diving into donor engagement kindergarten style, because even after having hundreds of conversations after spending 20 plus years in development, we know it all boils down to just getting some serious basics right? Things taught in kindergarten.
• 1:03
  Becky Endicott: And I love today that we're talking about listening, because it has been this thread since we turned that podcast on on the very first day. When we talk to philanthropists, when we talk to big funders, when we talk to program officers, every single one of them says that they wish development teams would be better listeners. How ironic is that?
• 1:25
  Jonathan McCoy: So I mean, what better way to start then to say, are you listening? Like super well, are you listening, because we're going to talk about today about the power of it, not just in fundraising, because let's be clear, it's really powerful, but also in our teams in life, and just kind of moving more into our purpose individually. So this is going to be a big one.
• 1:48
  Jonathan McCoy: So just
• 1:49
  Becky Endicott: a gentle reminder that we're going to walk through this and break down three components, we're going to go through principles, we're going to go through a couple case studies of who's doing this really well. And then we're going to break it down and give you some pro tips at the end. So where are we going to start?
• 2:02
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, so let's dive into some principles.
• 2:04
  Jonathan McCoy: cognitive diversity, oh my
• 2:06
  Becky Endicott: gosh, like everybody's drinking now.
• 2:09
  Jonathan McCoy: Two words, I love it. Okay, this is the principle to really kick us off.
• 2:12
  Jonathan McCoy: It's this idea of surrounding ourselves with different people, and who are the voices that are speaking into your head, I think if she's the first talks about building an impact board, this doesn't have to be people that you can literally get in the same room that's so difficult these days. It's about who are you lining up of the voices speaking in to not only your life, but your mission. And if it's not coming from a place of diversity, you're probably not going to have a real holistic view of what's really happening.
• 2:43
  Jonathan McCoy: And so the first principle is, are Who are you surrounding yourself by? And can you, you know, lean into building a more diverse group of people speaking into the things that you're listening to. And that was
• 2:54
  Becky Endicott: a perfect tee up for the next one, which is listening encourages loyalty.
• 2:56
  Becky Endicott: Because if you're actually listening equally across the board, people are going to pay attention. And I want to talk about listening, and where you're listening, because I think the way that we're talking about this immediately lends itself to talking one on one with people. But we're not talking about just having conversations one on one, we're telling you, are you listening to what people are posting in your social channels? Are you listening to the feedback people give you on email, and surveys to your organization, after events, we need to be chronically listening everywhere all the time and listening for those little nuggets, because donors, community members, volunteers, whoever they're going to notice. And the more that we listen and respond and respect, whatever that opinion is, it's going to breed more loyalty along the lines.
• 3:47
  Jonathan McCoy: I love this. You just said chronic listeners, have you ever had a chronic listener? But it's like, Why do why would we not be the industry that should be able to do that?
• 3:56
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, that's what this is all about. So beyond just listening, once you listen to all these different channels, it's also about the active of are you responding so that the person knows that you've heard? And are you actually taking that next step to activation, and that doesn't mean that everything that you're going to hear you're just going to do, but it's showing that you are receiving it and that it is coming back and that it is being filtered back out. And so that power of circling back, I think is something we really want to put a pin in. Because beyond just telling somebody that you've heard them to actually come back and say, Hey, actually, this stimulated a really great conversation on our team. And these are the three or four impacts that it's had. That's a full circle moment as that builds the loyalty that you just described. And I think that's the kind of thing that we're talking about here.
• 4:44
  Becky Endicott: So the final one is probably my favorite is outside of cognitive diversity.
• 4:48
  Becky Endicott: And this is the one where you've got to check your ego at the door, and it is show gratitude for someone's candor. You know what I mean by that? Yeah, I mean that wins. Somebody tells you something that's very difficult to hear something possibly critical about you, your organization, anyone on your team, we need to sit in that discomfort and listen for a little bit. And we need to not take a position of defense, we need to actually listen, soak it up. And John, I'm gonna pick on you just a little bit because John is a peacemaker, and he loves harmonious relationships.
• 5:23
  Becky Endicott: And if someone comes into our social media, like a troll, John's initial reaction is, oh, my gosh, what are we going to do with this? And the reality is we need to listen to every single person who's in our world, they may have a really salient point that they need to get across that we need to hear, to make our organization better to make it stronger. And when you're listening to the voices of everyone, not just the voices that love you, but everyone who's trying to elevate your game. This is the way you can take your listening and your organizational culture to the next level.
• 5:56
  Jonathan McCoy: Well, I'll say and candor can kind of breed that too. And we're just coming off of Mental Health Week. I love like I'm beaming every time that Becky gets to be, you know, get a pat on the back of like, Hey, thanks for being vulnerable with your story. Because it does matter. Like in today's world, like I think that's just a small point of just like, leaning into the candor, using our voices for something bigger than just our own self is really, I don't know, meaningful and deeply moving right now.
• 6:22
  Becky Endicott: I agree. Because I remember times when it prior organizations, they would say, Oh, we have a negative comment, we have to delete it. No, that is like taking away that someone who has given you a two stars on Amazon, we actually need their candor and their feedback to make the the system the global community even more vibrant. We don't want it to be perfect. We want it to be better and better and better. So
• 6:48
  Jonathan McCoy: good. One of the most powerful quotes, you know, I've run across on this idea of listening, kind of has a business slant to it. You know, we talk a lot about on the podcast that nonprofits really need to lean more into thinking like a business. Well, Gabe Cooper, he's the founder and CEO of virtuous, they're a CRM that serves the space really dynamically. He wrote a book called responsive fundraising, he was on the podcast, too, what, probably two or three seasons ago at this point isn't too. But his quote was, most organizations are risk averse.
• 7:16
  Jonathan McCoy: But the ironic part is that innovative new ideas, campaigns or fundraising strategies, they don't really have to be risky, if you're truly connected to your constituents. And what struck with me is like, if we just had a stronger commitment to listening, then their case studies, we're going to know the ones that are going to have the support. We know the campaigns that are going to ignite our community, because we know intrinsically what our community cares and values. And so like it actually can make us a lot less risk of an organization taking these big moves, if we're really dialed in on listening. And so I think what a call for all of us to kind of future proof our next steps by just getting to know our people, I love
• 8:02
  Becky Endicott: that very much.
• 8:02
  Becky Endicott: And it completely jives with another another conversation that we had with Ross McKnight and season one. It was episode number 27. And Ross is just a major philanthropist. And he's somebody that's very passionate about pouring really big philanthropy into the causes that are important to him. And when we asked him, What is the number one mistake that development officers make when they're courting you for these very large eight figure gifts, he said, development folks talk too much and listen to little.
• 8:32
  Becky Endicott: He says their job is to match the passion of a donor with a meaningful project. If they don't know the donor, they can't do that. And let me just tell you, the folks part was actually genuine. He's from West Texas Throckmorton. But the point is very sound, we have to talk less, listen more so that we can align those passions well,
• 8:51
  Jonathan McCoy: okay, so let's dive into some deeper case studies. Because, I mean, we know that we need to listen. But the groups that have really stepped boldly into this, I think are fascinating. And one of those conversations was with Sierra Club. So y'all know, we love the Sierra Club, you know, they're on the front lines kind of mobilizing the country around environmental issues. But they have got 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of donors that they wanted to be able to check in on. And how do you do that when you literally have 3.2 million members who build a team. And so the Sierra Club truly did that they wanted in the middle of the pandemic to check in on people.
• 9:31
  Jonathan McCoy: So they created a team, a 12, person in house team, who took calls fit more than 50,000 and answered emails more than 100,000 just simply checking in on their donors. And I realized that those numbers are kind of crazy for most of us. But I think the principle underlying here is that they had enough of a commitment that at the leadership level, they said we're going to devote resources to do that. And I love that it wasn't just an outbound, it was an inbound because they took that data They took those listening ears. And they started a program called Voice of the member where the team that was calling and having these conversations would share one positive and one negative thing that they were hearing, just to keep this conversation going.
• 10:12
  Jonathan McCoy: And think of just like how much better they know and understand their constituents, the people that they're trying to build relationships with at scale, by all the sharing that happened, and they are in a position to do so much better because they organized around it. So how could we all apply that,
• 10:28
  Becky Endicott: oh, my gosh, Sierra Club, you were doing such an amazing job of just listening and listening well, and just from a PR standpoint, I would just think that their members are giving them a heads up about the issues that are important to their organization, you can get ahead of it so smart. Okay, the second case study is the 19th.
• 10:45
  Becky Endicott: And the 19th is an incredible news organization that's powered by women. And it's news that is for women, and it's about how to get involved in your community, how to take care of your health, it's how to pour into legislation, and moving the needle getting women in positions of government. And so I made a gift to them, I've really loved the way that they deliver their news. And they sent the most amazing tone setting, welcome email to me.
• 11:16
  Becky Endicott: And they were literally asking me to reply with feedback that was going to directly go to the editor, the email was from the editor of the night team. And she says to me, please reply to this email, it will go directly to me with answers to the following two questions. Number one, how did you hear about us?
• 11:34
  Becky Endicott: Number two, what are you most interested in reading from the 19th? So you know, me, of course, somebody asked for my opinion, of course, I'm gonna give it so I wrote her back, I put a lot of content in there.
• 11:44
  Becky Endicott: And I have to tell you, she wrote back home was very kind to me. And it's like someone at that level, who was an editor of a major digital news company would take the time to do that.
• 11:55
  Becky Endicott: That was just next level listening. And it really engaged me with that organization as well.
• 12:01
  Jonathan McCoy: And this case study has happened just because we've launched a business in the pandemic, you know, we've met a lot of entrepreneurs, front entrepreneur, friends, in the community, I will say is so supportive right now, if you have an idea for his social impact business, like get into this space, it's a supportive community. But something that I've learned from fellow founders and CEOs is, this is the time like when you're just getting started, and you're trying to figure out who your customers are. Get to know people and just ask those questions like this is the most bulletproof way to know that you're building something that is going to have meaning if it can serve a need. And the only way you can do that is just by having the conversations and getting to know people. So just so you know, this is conversation that's happening on the for profit side, it's happening on the most progressive organizations and it's also happening to grassroots ones that we love like free mom hugs.
• 12:46
  Becky Endicott: Oh my gosh, thank you for taking up free mom hugs to me. This is an organization that absolutely lives listening. So free mom hugs was episode number eight, we met with their founder Sarah Cunningham, if you did not listen to that one, you are missing out, you can Google Sarah Cunningham and watch her incredible speech at the glad awards. But she is such an advocate for our LGBTQ community. And she had a son that came out to her and she did not manage it well. And it really created some space for her to self reflect. And she realized that when she started listening, there was so much that she did not know. And so she committed to growing her organization by listening. But their whole ethos is education is the key to everything. What you don't understand, makes you frozen, and you're fearing ignorance. So they created this platform for people to just show up. And then they created resources based on that listening. And now people have a central place where if they're wanting information, they've curated, they've listened on the front end, and now they have a very vibrant organization that's serving our LGBTQ friends.
• 13:52
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, so everything points to we've got to be listening. And you can do that digitally? The answer is yes, of course, you can do it digitally. You can do it over the phone, you can do it in communities that you build online. So let's talk in translate this into some pro tips. Everyone wants to get started with this. So right across the table, I feel like we have to start with just like, Are you truly listening to the people that are right in front of you? Are you inviting them into a conversation for people to share their story, share their experience, you know, that is a huge heart and driver for us at this kitchen table on the podcast. That's why we try to create a space that's not only safe, but invites people of differing backgrounds, differing experiences to come and share their experiences because we know that's how we can grow collectively as people and as an industry to create a more inclusive and more supportive place where everybody feels seen and heard.
• 14:44
  Becky Endicott: So here's a great tactic for you. Have you pulled or surveyed your donors in a while or your volunteers, your board members? I mean, even in a post COVID world, it really demands that we should do it anyway. And as very thoughtful questions because We want to track what's going on, we want to know where people are at right now, we want to know what they think about their giving, we want to know how we can make mission delivery and communication easier. So if you need a pro tip on listening, start with a survey, start with a poll, you can do that on email, you can do that on Survey Monkey, you can even throw it onto your social media channels.
• 15:19
  Becky Endicott: There are lots of ways to do it.
• 15:19
  Becky Endicott: And honestly, I still think a paper form is a really good way to just send an a letter to somebody's house, had them fill it out, your boomers will thank you.
• 15:30
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, I'm like, shuttering, I'm like, oh, gosh, paper surveys. How about this one, I mean, you're gonna get all this data coming back at you. And I love like Survey Monkey. And all those tools allow you to really slice and dice it in a really cool way.
• 15:41
  Jonathan McCoy: But even like Google Forms allows you to do as kind of a basic level of that that's completely free. So are you listening to your data, look at your Google Analytics, look at your queries that you can pull out of your database, even look at your email, open rates, all data is trying to talk to you.
• 15:56
  Jonathan McCoy: So are you listening to those little numbers that are speaking,
• 16:00
  Becky Endicott: Okay, the next one is make it a point to sit down with three to five of your loyal donors, employees, volunteers, maybe playing giving donors, I'm like putting a space there for whatever your target audience is. And just understand someone's connection to your mission and why they continue to give. Not only is this going to be an incredible cultivation tool for you, but it's going to help you get to know people who love you so well, and you can pour into the things that matter to them, it's going to allow you to have a lens into their heart for your mission, listen well, and take that information and make your organization better with it.
• 16:37
  Jonathan McCoy: Something that we've noticed, I mean, after doing 100 plus interviews is that there's some evolved leaders that truly want you to reach out to them. And we've seen this I mean, people that are founders of huge organizations, sometimes will give out their personal email address on the podcast, it just warms my heart when that happens, does. But think about what that means or what that showing in this is even Bob Gough, if you know him, author, he put his phone number literally in the back of his book, because he wanted to hear from people and you can literally call Bob, if you call his number have been totally picks it up. So I guess we should try that one day. Julie's dead, of course. But it's the whole idea of how are you posturing and making it accessible for to actually hear and listen to people? And I think those are just two quick, easy hacks.
• 17:22
  Becky Endicott: Okay. The next one is a really important one.
• 17:26
  Becky Endicott: And it is what are you doing to listen to your donors, your beneficiaries, your people of color, showing up to listen equitably? And acting once you have that information is really a testament to next level listening. And we have got to be pouring in to this dei movement.
• 17:40
  Becky Endicott: We should have been pouring into it. Let's be honest, decades ago. But we love that there's a massive spotlight on it right now. Because we want our communities to be inclusive. And we want to make sure that the voices who have not been heard are the ones that are being lifted to the top.
• 17:58
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, so look around you Where can you listen today? If you have nowhere else, go to your social media and ask a question today, instead of speaking at people, there's really places in today's world that you can literally always be listening. And we just believe it's going to powerfully shaped the way that we show up for our donors, for our missions and for the people that we're trying to impact in this world.
• 18:20
  Becky Endicott: And I want to give a shout out to the we're for good community you can go to we're for good community.com We've created a free platform here that is nothing more than a listening space. And it can be a space where you can get resources or tips. There's job boards, we've been talking mental health in there and I it's just really heartwarming to see how the community is listening to other people's an individual's pain points and giving them solutions. Let's democratize giving and listening. I think it's gonna happen. And can
• 18:49
  Jonathan McCoy: we just say the fact that you're if you're listening right now, after 20 minutes, or however long this episode is, you're an awesome person you are. Thanks for hanging in there. And I just hope that this is helpful today and something that you can share with your team.
• 19:02
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here.
• 19:03
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• 19:23
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• 19:26
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• 19:34
  Julie Confer: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom