Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / Long-Term Thinking in a Short-Term World with Dorie Clark

Transcript

Long-Term Thinking in a Short-Term World with Dorie Clark · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

• 0:00
  Especially in most Western cultures, busyness is viewed as a form of status.
• 0:05
  You know, with people's, oh, I'm I'm so busy.
• 0:08
  I'm just overlooked.
• 0:09
  Well, you you yourself are feeling important.
• 0:12
  People around you often view that as, oh, wow.
• 0:15
  She must be so in demand.
• 0:16
  And so emotionally, it actually is hard for us to take the steps necessary to stop being so
• 0:22
  busy to to get off the treadmill a little bit.
• 0:24
  Because it's a blow to our ego.
• 0:27
  And so dealing with that is really important if we wanna solve the problem.
• 0:32
  Hi.
• 0:32
  This is Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady host a small Bishop podcast.
• 0:36
  I want to serve you.
• 0:37
  This pandemic has been so hard on America's small businesses and on just America in
• 0:42
  general.
• 0:43
  If you're ready to your dream business.
• 0:45
  Boy, do I have a great offer for you?
• 0:47
  I am giving away 1000 copies of my best selling book.
• 0:51
  Become your own boss in 12 months.
• 0:54
  Over a hundred thousand people have this book.
• 0:56
  It's been printed in multiple languages around the world, and I wanted to find a way to serve
• 1:01
  America's small businesses in this pandemic.
• 1:03
  And so I'm giving away a 1000 copies of my book.
• 1:07
  All you have to do to get your copy is head over to begin my biz.com/freeoffer to, you
• 1:14
  know, sign up for your copy.
• 1:16
  All you have to do is pay shipping and we will mail one out to you.
• 1:19
  I am so excited about this.
• 1:21
  I wanna serve you.
• 1:23
  Grab your copy today.
• 1:24
  Ripped off.
• 1:26
  Ending small business failure.
• 1:29
  Welcome to the small biz chat podcast with a number 1 small business expert Melinda Emerson.
• 1:35
  Melinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you the information
• 1:39
  you need to succeed and live the life you dream of.
• 1:43
  Now here's the small biz lady herself.
• 1:47
  Melinda Everson.
• 1:49
  Hi, everybody.
• 1:50
  I'm Melinda Emerson's small biz lady, America's number one small business expert, and I'd like
• 1:55
  to welcome you to the small biz chat podcast.
• 1:59
  The small business owners a peer to peer interview show.
• 2:02
  They give small business owners a way to get invaluable business advice the mission of small
• 2:07
  business chat is to end small business failure.
• 2:11
  The goal of the small business audience the opportunity to hear sage advice from multiple
• 2:19
  angles so that you can take your business to the next level.
• 2:22
  Alright.
• 2:23
  It is time for me to introduce my guest.
• 2:26
  My dear friend Dori Clark.
• 2:28
  She has been named one of the top 50 business thinkers in the world by thinkers 50.
• 2:33
  She's a keynote speaker and leadership expert.
• 2:36
  She also teaches for the Duke University Fuqua School of Business.
• 2:41
  She's also the author of entrepreneurial you, reinventing you and stand out, which ink
• 2:47
  magazine named the number one leadership book of the year, and her latest book is the long
• 2:53
  game.
• 2:54
  How to be a long term thinker in a short term world.
• 2:58
  Now for more information on her, just head over to Dori Clark dotcom.
• 3:03
  Dorey.
• 3:03
  Welcome.
• 3:04
  Welcome to Small Bush Chatlar.
• 3:06
  Hey, Melinda.
• 3:07
  I'm so glad to be here with you.
• 3:08
  You know, I know your story, but everyone else does it.
• 3:11
  Give me, like, your origin story.
• 3:14
  How did you become, like, America's leadership guru?
• 3:17
  And and a college professor to boot.
• 3:19
  Tell me your how you're how you got on this journey.
• 3:22
  Oh, well, thank you so much.
• 3:23
  I I think that my story is probably not dissimilar to many other small business owners.
• 3:29
  I had worked as a a journalist and gotten laid off, and I had worked on political campaigns,
• 3:35
  and they all lost and you have to keep pulling yourself back up.
• 3:39
  And eventually, I became a nonprofit executive director.
• 3:42
  And about a year into doing it, I had this revelation running a nonprofit was exactly the
• 3:47
  same thing as running a small business.
• 3:48
  And I thought I should be doing this for myself.
• 3:51
  So for the past 15 years, I have been self employed and have just worked since then to
• 3:58
  continue being fortunate enough to get to get to do cool things to results and, and ex do
• 4:03
  executive coaching and hopefully continue reaching more people.
• 4:07
  Tell me something.
• 4:08
  I I know that, you know, in your books, you talk a lot about people confuse being busy for
• 4:15
  being important.
• 4:17
  And I wanted to start there because I just thought that was such a powerful concept
• 4:21
  because for years, I've always said that people mistake busyness for business.
• 4:26
  And I think this is, like, kinda the same thing.
• 4:28
  These people that just wanna go to networking events and keep talking to people, but they're
• 4:32
  not, like, making sales.
• 4:33
  Like, it's a problem.
• 4:34
  But I really wanted this is a more strategic question than that.
• 4:37
  About, you know, why people confuse these 2 concepts.
• 4:42
  Yeah.
• 4:42
  Absolutely.
• 4:43
  And I I think this is important because just about everybody we know, just about every
• 4:47
  professional, every small business owner says, oh, wow.
• 4:50
  I wish I were less busy.
• 4:52
  And they point to the obvious culprits, like, meetings and emails and things like that, which
• 4:57
  is true.
• 4:58
  You know, we all have too much of that.
• 5:00
  But in addition to it, as I was researching the long game, one of the pieces of of research
• 5:05
  that I came across that I thought was most interesting is it turns out there are actually
• 5:09
  subtle almost unconscious factors that are contributing to us being so busy.
• 5:15
  And one of them, according to research from Columbia University, is that especially in most
• 5:20
  Western cultures, busyness is viewed as a form of status.
• 5:25
  You know, with people say, oh, I'm I'm so busy.
• 5:27
  I'm just overbooked Well, you you yourself are feeling important.
• 5:32
  People around you often view that as, oh, wow.
• 5:34
  She must be so in demand.
• 5:36
  And so emotionally, it actually is hard for us to take the steps necessary to stop being so
• 5:42
  busy to to get off the treadmill a little bit.
• 5:44
  Because it's a blow to our ego.
• 5:46
  And so dealing with that is really important if we wanna solve the problem.
• 5:50
  I agree.
• 5:51
  I agree.
• 5:52
  So what kind of strategies have you incorporated into your weekly schedule to
• 5:58
  maximize your time?
• 6:00
  Yeah.
• 6:00
  So one of the most important things, and I've done this for a number of years, actually, and
• 6:05
  it's really become a a fairly ingrained habit is drawing on a a framework that Paul Graham,
• 6:11
  the founder of the Silicon Valley Incubator Y Combinator has put forward He talks about the
• 6:16
  difference between manager time and maker time.
• 6:20
  And manager time is the time that we all have to spend We're we're supervising things.
• 6:25
  We're answering messages.
• 6:26
  We're having meetings.
• 6:27
  We're directing things.
• 6:29
  We've all gotta do it.
• 6:30
  But in addition to that, He talks about maker time, and this is the deep work important
• 6:36
  stuff.
• 6:36
  It's finishing that proposal finally.
• 6:39
  It's writing that art you know, whatever the things are that we often put off, but are
• 6:43
  really important.
• 6:45
  And so what I have come to realize is that if you try to combine manager activities and maker
• 6:50
  activities right next to each other, it usually doesn't work.
• 6:54
  And so I've separated out in my calendar manager days and maker days.
• 6:59
  Manager days back to back.
• 7:01
  Crazy.
• 7:01
  It's not that much fun, honestly.
• 7:03
  But what it enables is for me to have deep work maker days where I can really move the ball
• 7:08
  forward and get things done.
• 7:11
  Interesting.
• 7:12
  Interesting.
• 7:12
  I I think I do something similar, but I don't call it that.
• 7:15
  But I set aside specific days for content development And then I do my my meetings, and I
• 7:20
  don't do a 30 minute meeting with anybody more than 30 minutes with anybody.
• 7:24
  I don't care what it is.
• 7:25
  So those are some of the things that I do But tell me about your book, your new book, the
• 7:31
  long game.
• 7:31
  I mean, you you've written a lot about, you know, personal branding and reinvention.
• 7:37
  So Tell me why you decided to do a book on how to I loved your you said, how to be a long term
• 7:46
  thinker in a short term world.
• 7:48
  Tell me tell me about that because I've done some reading of research about sort of like
• 7:53
  thinking fast and slow.
• 7:54
  And I was curious as to whether or not, you know, your re that research kind of informed
• 7:58
  what you're talking about here.
• 8:00
  Yeah.
• 8:01
  So what you're describing the research by Daniel Conham and the Nobel Prize winner is, I
• 8:06
  think, really fantastic.
• 8:07
  He talks about decision science and how we make our decisions.
• 8:11
  And there's some really interesting insights there.
• 8:14
  I am talking about something I would say adjacent to it, which is the fact that I think
• 8:20
  all of us can recognize that so many of the pressures in our society today, which you know,
• 8:26
  is not helped by social media is for short term outcomes.
• 8:30
  You know, we look around.
• 8:31
  And especially if you are a small business owner, And perhaps, especially if you are a
• 8:36
  little newer to the game, you often look around and say, oh my gosh.
• 8:40
  Everyone else seems to be getting there faster than I am.
• 8:43
  You know, am I doing the right thing?
• 8:45
  I don't know if I'm doing the right thing.
• 8:46
  Maybe I should be trying something else.
• 8:48
  Maybe I should be on YouTube.
• 8:49
  Oh, no.
• 8:50
  Maybe I should be on clubhouse.
• 8:51
  And we get into this spiral.
• 8:54
  And as it turns out, many times it means we can actually never get traction at anything because
• 8:59
  you give up too quickly.
• 9:01
  When actually you should just be doing it a little more, doing it a little longer.
• 9:06
  And I for the past 5 years, I've been running an online course and community called
• 9:10
  recognized expert, for professionals that are looking to grow their platform, get better
• 9:14
  known, get their ideas out there.
• 9:16
  And so I have seen, you know, wide swath of folks, it's it's giving me pretty good lawn
• 9:21
  tunal knowledge and breadth of what the process looks like for people to really break through.
• 9:27
  And what I've seen is that so often that problem is that we just get whiplash because we
• 9:32
  we never do anything long enough to really see the results And I wanted to create a book and a
• 9:37
  framework for people with a long game so that they could really essentially be bucked up
• 9:43
  enough to persevere where they need to and to be able to get through those really hard
• 9:48
  moments that almost all small business owners experience where you're just not sure if it's
• 9:52
  not working or if it's not working yet.
• 9:55
  But you gotta get through to the other side.
• 9:58
  Interesting.
• 9:59
  So why do you think it's so much more difficult now than it was, like, even 10 years ago?
• 10:05
  To sort of, like, think long term, if you will, instead of, like, these more, like, kind of
• 10:10
  transactional things you, like, kinda see people do.
• 10:13
  Yeah.
• 10:13
  Well, certainly short term thinking.
• 10:15
  I mean, it's endemic to human nature.
• 10:18
  So it's been with us for a long time.
• 10:21
  But one thing that I thought was was interesting as I was researching the long game,
• 10:25
  there was a a fun quote that I came across from a 100 plus years ago.
• 10:29
  It was from a of the time named H.
• 10:31
  L.
• 10:32
  Mankin.
• 10:32
  And his quote, which I love was the true measure of success is making a $100 more a year
• 10:38
  than your brother-in-law does.
• 10:40
  Is perfect.
• 10:42
  And I thought, yes.
• 10:44
  But now the problem in 2021 is that it's not just your brother-in-law.
• 10:49
  It's everybody.
• 10:50
  We're comparing ourselves to everybody because we live in this global connected world with
• 10:56
  social media and all the images And so we are constantly seeing images of success that that
• 11:02
  kind of rattle us sometimes if things are not going as fast as we want And the truth is
• 11:07
  things never go as fast as we want.
• 11:10
  And so I I really wanted to to just address that.
• 11:13
  The truth is Things do do take longer than we want, but the best things are worth working
• 11:19
  toward and working through those difficult times.
• 11:22
  Well, just on that point though, don't you feel like social media has become like people's
• 11:28
  personal highlight reels?
• 11:29
  Like, nobody unless there's a death, nobody posts.
• 11:32
  Hey.
• 11:33
  I start in the super most terrible, worst, worst, worst day ever today.
• 11:38
  Let me tell you about that on socialbee.
• 11:39
  Like, I feel like people don't do that.
• 11:42
  Like, whenever you see people, everyone's always posed perfectly for the picture.
• 11:46
  And, you know what I mean?
• 11:46
  Like, What about that culture of feeling like you have to put on a happy face even if there's
• 11:52
  not a happy face to be put on?
• 11:55
  Yeah.
• 11:55
  Absolutely.
• 11:56
  And there's there's just so so much of that.
• 11:58
  Even my mother was up visiting visiting me this past week, And, I was having a conversation
• 12:04
  with a group of people at dinner, and somehow it it came up about, you know, like, the fake
• 12:08
  Instagram influencers.
• 12:10
  And I'm like, oh my god.
• 12:11
  Everybody's you know, posing in front of their Lamborghini.
• 12:13
  So my mother takes out her phone and she starts clicking around, and then she holds up a
• 12:17
  picture of her next to a Lamborghini I'm like, even you, mama, even you.
• 12:24
  Right.
• 12:24
  Right.
• 12:25
  Either these rented cars that people wanna take pictures in front of.
• 12:28
  I know it's really kind of scary, but one of the other things you talked about in your book
• 12:33
  is, like, you said, you know, how can we say no to good opportunities.
• 12:39
  And what else is involved in the process of thinking through?
• 12:43
  Like you said, sometimes you gotta say no to some stuff even if it's a good opportunity.
• 12:47
  And I really wanted to walk down that road with you.
• 12:50
  Help me understand what you're talking about, Dore.
• 12:52
  Is it is it the same thing as, like, all money ain't good money.
• 12:56
  Is that is that really what this comes down to?
• 12:58
  How how are you teaching people here?
• 13:01
  Right.
• 13:01
  Well, I think, Melinda, this is this is really where the strategy part of the strategic
• 13:07
  thinking comes in because, you know, most of us, it's not always easy to say no even to a
• 13:12
  bad opportunity because we might feel bad or, oh, their feelings will be hurt, but most of us
• 13:18
  are at least smart enough to know, okay.
• 13:20
  That's a bad opportunity.
• 13:21
  I need to I need to say no to it.
• 13:23
  But the problem that I have seen at a time and again among successful people, and this is this
• 13:29
  is really the challenge, is at a certain point, if you get successful enough, a lot of good
• 13:34
  opportunities are going to come to you.
• 13:36
  That's amazing, but it's still a problem because you don't have time for all of them.
• 13:42
  And if you actually want to enable your strategy, the things that you have made choices
• 13:48
  about, and you said, yes.
• 13:49
  This is where I wanna make by Mark, not here, not there, here, you have to make choices that
• 13:56
  enable you to have enough time and energy and effort to put toward your goal and your vision,
• 14:01
  not somebody else's.
• 14:02
  And that means, unfortunately, sometimes even saying no to good things And we're not in that
• 14:09
  habit, you know, when you're twenty two years old and, you know, who nothing's coming to you
• 14:13
  anyway.
• 14:14
  You see a good opportunity.
• 14:15
  You're like, fantastic.
• 14:16
  I'll do it.
• 14:17
  But you can't keep doing that once you've become successful.
• 14:21
  You have to make the hard choices.
• 14:23
  What was the turning point in your career where you really felt like it just wasn't in your
• 14:30
  best interest to say yes to so much stuff.
• 14:32
  Like, the I'm assuming you came up with this because it happened to you.
• 14:36
  Right?
• 14:36
  That is that is true.
• 14:38
  Yes.
• 14:39
  I had an experience, and I write about this in the long game.
• 14:41
  Where a friend reached out to me, and she wanted to know this.
• 14:45
  She she sent this email, and my first reaction was, oh my god.
• 14:48
  This sounds incredible.
• 14:49
  And then I walked it back and I started thinking about it.
• 14:53
  She was part of an organization that had decided that they wanted to invite me to be a
• 14:57
  speaker at a conference they were having in the Caribbean.
• 15:01
  And would I be interested?
• 15:03
  They would pay for my trip and my hotel to the Caribbean.
• 15:06
  And on one hand, I thought this was amazing, but then I realized, wait a minute.
• 15:11
  You gotta think about this story because First of all, a question you always have to ask
• 15:15
  yourself is what is the total cost of this?
• 15:18
  How does this factor in?
• 15:20
  And I could technically have done it, but looking out, I was gonna be traveling the week
• 15:25
  before.
• 15:26
  I was gonna be traveling the week after.
• 15:27
  This is obviously pre COVID.
• 15:29
  And I thought, oh my gosh.
• 15:30
  3 weeks on the road, I'm gonna be so exhausted.
• 15:33
  Will I even enjoy it?
• 15:34
  Now that sounds kind of intense.
• 15:36
  Of course, this was an unpaid, trip they they would have paid for my expenses, but they were
• 15:41
  not gonna pay me.
• 15:42
  And I thought, well, that's nice.
• 15:43
  But, you know, it's it's a vacation, but would I choose to spend my vacation, like, like that.
• 15:49
  I don't know.
• 15:50
  Maybe I would have done something else.
• 15:51
  And then I realized, actually, the biggest attraction was just getting to spend time with
• 15:55
  my friend, but I thought, She lives in my city.
• 15:59
  I can actually just invite her for dinner, and I don't have to go to Grand Cayman in order to
• 16:04
  see her.
• 16:04
  And so, ultimately, I said, no, even though it would have technically been a good opportunity,
• 16:09
  but going through that thought process made me realize we all have to get a little smarter
• 16:13
  about this.
• 16:14
  Mhmm.
• 16:15
  Mhmm.
• 16:16
  So tell me when you say that everyone needs to build a life portfolio, what is that?
• 16:22
  Yes.
• 16:23
  So when it comes to investing, you know, investing your income, almost everybody knows
• 16:28
  the basic idea of, like, okay.
• 16:30
  Don't put all your money in one stock.
• 16:31
  Right, where where if you know one thing, you know that.
• 16:34
  It's like, okay.
• 16:35
  Diversify.
• 16:36
  That's great.
• 16:37
  But the problem is that so often in our own careers, we are not doing this.
• 16:43
  And so there's the high chance if you don't diversify properly, that, you know, if you are
• 16:50
  doing something, you know, some particular service that you're providing or you're
• 16:54
  providing, services or products to a particular audience something might change in the
• 16:59
  marketplace, and it begins to put you at risk.
• 17:02
  And so what I like to suggest, and I have a whole section, in the long game about this is
• 17:08
  that we essentially need to think about what we do with with our businesses and with our
• 17:13
  careers as being a portfolio where there's the bonds that are nice and safe and steady, but
• 17:19
  there's also the risky and more experimental things.
• 17:21
  And so I talk about applying Google's 20 percent time concept where you spend up to a
• 17:27
  5th of your time on something that, you know, really might not work.
• 17:30
  It's, very experimental.
• 17:32
  We need to be doing this ourselves and choosing to develop this in our own careers, in our own
• 17:38
  businesses because that's what enables us to stay on the cutting edge and to be exploring
• 17:42
  things enough so that if the market changes, we are not unprepared for it.
• 17:48
  I love it.
• 17:48
  I love it.
• 17:48
  Well, listen, we're gonna take a break.
• 17:50
  And when we come right back, we're gonna talk more with Jerry Clark about Thinking long term
• 17:55
  in a short term world, and we'll be right back.
• 18:01
  People always ask me How can I become my own boss?
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  With multiple features in the New York Times Forbes on ABC News, as America's number one
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  small business expert, I know a thing or 2 about how to do it.
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  Hi.
• 18:14
  I'm Melinda Emerson's small biz lady, and I've been coaching small business owners since 2008.
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  That's right.
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  I even broke it down into a 6 step them in my best selling book, become your own boss in 12
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  Welcome back everybody to the small biz chat podcast.
• 19:27
  We've been talking with Dory Clark about her brand new book the long game.
• 19:32
  Alright, Dory.
• 19:33
  Tell me what are career waves?
• 19:36
  Yes, Melinda.
• 19:38
  So one of the things that I have seen talking to a lot of small business people and
• 19:43
  entrepreneurs where they get frustrated sometimes.
• 19:46
  They feel like I'm working so hard, but I'm not the progress I want, what's wrong, and almost
• 19:52
  always, what I have discovered is that they are not thinking in waves, which is the concept I
• 19:58
  talk about in the long game.
• 20:00
  So in our career waves, we really need to realize that there there's a time to focus your
• 20:07
  energy on doing one particular type of thing, but then you can't keep doing it forever.
• 20:12
  You have to shift and move on to the next phase.
• 20:15
  And so what I identify in the long game is 4 key phases.
• 20:19
  The first is is the learning phase.
• 20:22
  Where you're just acclimating, you know, in my case, when I was starting my business, I was a
• 20:27
  manic reading books, taking workshops, just figuring out the lay of the land.
• 20:31
  I think we all have to get there.
• 20:33
  The 2nd phase is what I what I call sharing and creating.
• 20:37
  Because that's where you have to start putting your own stuff out there.
• 20:41
  You know, get your products out there.
• 20:42
  Get your ideas out there.
• 20:43
  People people need to to see what you can do.
• 20:47
  The 3rd wave is connecting because you have to build your community.
• 20:51
  That's a community of customers.
• 20:53
  It's also a a community of collaborators and and peers that you you work with and you know
• 20:58
  fellow business owners.
• 21:00
  And then finally, it's the reaping phase, which is where, you know, you're humming along.
• 21:04
  You're pretty successful.
• 21:05
  Now you can enjoy it, and you should enjoy it.
• 21:07
  But here's the key.
• 21:08
  You can't stay there forever either, even though it's nice.
• 21:11
  You need to circle around and start learning again, or we stagnate.
• 21:16
  I could not agree more what an interesting metaphor.
• 21:19
  So can you explain the distance to empty concept
• 21:24
  I certainly can.
• 21:25
  Yes.
• 21:26
  So distance empty.
• 21:28
  That's a phrase that some people will know from watching their gas tank in their car.
• 21:33
  We see, oh, you know, and this this many miles to empty.
• 21:36
  And my friend Dave Crenshaw, who is a time management and productivity expert that I
• 21:41
  profile in the long game talks about this as business owners and entrepreneurs and and small
• 21:47
  business owners, we often work crazy ridiculous hours.
• 21:52
  And we know it's a problem, but we don't really know what to do about it.
• 21:56
  And so I loved Dave's formulation.
• 21:59
  And what he what he says is just like distance to empty where you can actually see, oh, I've
• 22:03
  got this many miles to go before I, before I have to get gas.
• 22:08
  He says where we often go wrong.
• 22:10
  Let's say we're working till 9 o'clock at night.
• 22:12
  That's no good.
• 22:13
  We know it's no good.
• 22:14
  And so you vow, well, tomorrow, I'm gonna stop at 5.
• 22:18
  Well, that's not very practical.
• 22:20
  It's probably not gonna work.
• 22:22
  And so Dave says we need to to ratchet it back slowly and steadily.
• 22:26
  So that we can continue to be aware of what is our distance to empty and slowly and steadily
• 22:33
  be able to make the right choices so that we can get the the lifestyle that that we want,
• 22:39
  but it's a slower process.
• 22:40
  We can't do it overnight or it's gonna blow up and it's not gonna work.
• 22:44
  I I think that's really, really good advice.
• 22:46
  Alright, Dory.
• 22:47
  What is the best business advice you ever got?
• 22:50
  The best business advice I ever got and face to COVID, I think, Melinda, the world caught up
• 22:55
  with me, but it was gee Dory.
• 22:57
  You don't really need to have an office.
• 22:58
  You can save a lot of money by working from home.
• 23:02
  Love it.
• 23:02
  Alright.
• 23:03
  Where can we get your book the long game?
• 23:05
  Thank you so much.
• 23:06
  The the best way that people can find out about my work Get the long game.
• 23:11
  Get the long game self assessment free strategic thinking self assessment.
• 23:15
  Just go to doreyclark.com/long game.
• 23:19
  Love it.
• 23:19
  Love it.
• 23:20
  Thank you so much, Dory, for being here.
• 23:22
  I always enjoy talking to you.
• 23:25
  What is your favorite podcast?
• 23:27
  My favorite podcast, of course, besides yours, Melinda, is marketing secrets by Russell
• 23:33
  Brunson.
• 23:34
  I like his podcast too.
• 23:36
  I like his.
• 23:37
  Alright, Dory.
• 23:38
  What's your favorite app?
• 23:39
  I feel like all I do is is, like, write contracts and and sign contracts.
• 23:46
  So I use TurboScan, which is a scanning app so that I don't actually have to have a big
• 23:52
  scanner like you did 10 years ago.
• 23:54
  Love it.
• 23:55
  Love it.
• 23:55
  That's actually one I haven't heard of.
• 23:57
  So turbo scan.
• 23:58
  Alright.
• 23:58
  Love it.
• 23:59
  Alright, Dory.
• 24:00
  What's your favorite old school marketing to?
• 24:03
  Well, I'm in the just like you, Melinda, I'm in the thick of book promotion right now for the
• 24:07
  long game.
• 24:07
  So the way I'm kicking into old school, I literally have an Excel spreadsheet of people
• 24:13
  that I know and I call it people who can help with the book And so over the past year, I've
• 24:19
  been keeping this spreadsheet.
• 24:20
  And every time I think of a person that remotely could help with a book, I put them in
• 24:23
  it, And then I write down how I how they can help.
• 24:27
  Maybe it's an Amazon review.
• 24:28
  Maybe it's social media.
• 24:30
  Maybe they have an email list.
• 24:32
  But I have been and am continuing to just email people through this Excel file, to mobilize
• 24:39
  help.
• 24:40
  Listen.
• 24:41
  I excel spreadsheet.
• 24:42
  This is an old school marketing chip.
• 24:44
  What's one of the best business books you've ever read?
• 24:47
  For me, the OG business book is Influence, the psychology of persuasion by Robert Chaldini,
• 24:55
  Good one.
• 24:56
  Good one.
• 24:57
  Listen.
• 24:57
  Thank you all for joining me.
• 24:59
  For this episode of the small biz chat podcast, If you're still working on your digital pivot,
• 25:03
  be sure to grab my new book, become your own boss in 12 months, revise, and expand it I've
• 25:09
  got all of the great stuff in there that you need, like, how to sell on Amazon, how to buy
• 25:14
  ads, and how to develop the sales process.
• 25:17
  You can Get your copy today, head over to become your own boss book.com.
• 25:23
  And I've got some amazing bonuses over there.
• 25:26
  Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the small business chat podcast.
• 25:30
  The mission of small business chat is to end small business failure I'm Melinda Emerson
• 25:35
  Small Buslady, your host.
• 25:36
  Until next time, remember this.
• 25:38
  You never lose in business, either you win or you learn.
• 25:41
  Good night, everybody.
• 25:44
  Thank you for listening to the Small Biz Chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 25:49
  For more resources and small business success strategies, visit succeed as your own boss.com.
• 25:56
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcast and join us next Wednesday.