Latest / Spill The Wine / Spill the Wine Episode 13: A hidden gem in the Bench wine region. A visit to King and Victoria Winery

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Spill the Wine Episode 13: A hidden gem in the Bench wine region. A visit to King and Victoria Winery · Spill The Wine

• 0:00
  Andrea Morris [00:00:00]: Hello, friends. I'm Andrea Morris, and welcome to another episode of Spill the Wine, our podcast which is about wine, and exploring particularly this round, the Niagara wine region. And today, we're talking to some people from a winery that is truly a hidden gem. Because if you don't know where this winery is, you will never find it. I've driven past it three times, but I found it and I was really happy that I did. So today, we are at King and Victoria. And this is a spectacular new winery in the region, and we're with Rob and
• 0:01
  Rob [00:00:36]: Joe.
• 0:02
  Andrea Morris [00:00:36]: Joe. And these guys you guys are the owners and winemaker. Right? Or winemakers? Yes.
• 0:03
  Joe [00:00:42]: Partners, owners, winemakers, all of the above.
• 0:04
  Rob [00:00:45]: And it's No winemaker. It's a unique thing. Yes.
• 0:05
  Andrea Morris [00:00:48]: Right. It's a collaborative effort.
• 0:06
  Rob [00:00:50]: Right? Yes.
• 0:07
  Andrea Morris [00:00:51]: So I the first time I was here, I I heard the story of your of your winery, and it was really interesting. So can you share it with our listeners? Because it's a really great little story of how you guys got started.
• 0:08
  Joe [00:01:03]: Well, we're we're brothers in law as well as partners in this. So it's myself, my wife, Tracy, my sister, Liz, and Rob are are the four principals in it. And we found this property back in 02/2002 when, Liz and Rob were living abroad, wanted to find a base back here in Canada. So I'm Liz and I are fourth generation farm family, so I was always on the lookout for properties. Saw this little gem of 20 mile bench that was just motorbike trails, no crops on it at all, and we knew we had something. So we reached out to Liz and Rob in Germany, and the rest is history.
• 0:09
  Andrea Morris [00:01:46]: Did you do any soil samples before you brought bought the property?
• 0:10
  Joe [00:01:50]: No. At that point, we didn't. It was it had been it hadn't been developed or or manipulated in any way, and it just, we went on our gut that it was gonna be a good good fit.
• 0:11
  Andrea Morris [00:02:03]: So how did you decide what grapes you're gonna plant?
• 0:12
  Joe [00:02:07]: Our first variety that we planted in which we have a significant amount of is Gewurztraminer. We we probably have three and a half acres of Gewurztraminer. And And
• 0:13
  Andrea Morris [00:02:18]: yet you do not make it?
• 0:14
  Rob [00:02:20]: Well, we do this year.
• 0:15
  Joe [00:02:21]: It will be coming out. We've done a we've done a pet at Gewurztraminer last year. We called g minor, and we're doing a a still Gewurztraminer this year. But the reason we planted it, it was Rob's mom's favorite wine. So that may not have been the,
• 0:16
  Rob [00:02:38]: the straight right to the
• 0:17
  Joe [00:02:40]: best approach, but it seemed to have worked.
• 0:18
  Andrea Morris [00:02:42]: So what varieties do you have on the on the estate now?
• 0:19
  Joe [00:02:45]: So we started with Gewurztraminer.
• 0:20
  Rob [00:02:47]: 2,004, we planted those that acreage. Then, Riesling, then Sauvignon Blanc, and Pinot Noir. So over a three, four year period, we planted, 13 and a half acres. Wow. Yeah.
• 0:21
  Andrea Morris [00:03:00]: And are do you guys hand harvest, or do you machine harvest?
• 0:22
  Rob [00:03:04]: Combination of both for, for Pinot, certainly hand harvest and, Riesling depends on the year and what we're trying
• 0:23
  Joe [00:03:12]: to make. Yeah.
• 0:24
  Andrea Morris [00:03:13]: So when was the first year that you started making wine?
• 0:25
  Joe [00:03:17]: Well, the two of us started making wine in 2013 in my barn. Just, hobby stuff with friends, and we were using our that first vintage was Pinot Noir. We had next to zero skills or knowledge in this and, and the wine turned out shockingly good. And so we give we give the Vineyard ninety five percent of the credit for everything we do to this day. It's, if the fruit is is brilliant, then you're you really gotta mess it up to mess it up.
• 0:26
  Andrea Morris [00:03:51]: But, you know, weather plays a factor sometimes, so it's not necessarily just the fruit.
• 0:27
  Rob [00:03:55]: Yeah. Sure. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's another thing that we learned a lot along from 2,013 onwards as amateurs. Every year brought us a little different challenge. Right? Weather related, ripeness levels, all these things we started to understand a little bit more year by year.
• 0:28
  Rob [00:04:13]: And having a vineyard allowed us to experiment. So very small lots, late harvest rieslings, medium sweet rieslings, off dry rieslings. Right? We tried everything at least once or twice, along the way just to kinda accelerate our learning and understand more of what the vineyard has to offer.
• 0:29
  Andrea Morris [00:04:36]: So when you initially started making the wine, were you selling it, or was it just for your own private consumption?
• 0:30
  Joe [00:04:41]: Oh, just us and a and a group of friends. At a certain point, we we got together eight couples, and they'd help out with, bottling, with harvest, with all the different things. We
• 0:31
  Rob [00:04:53]: put together money so we could buy a barrel and then
• 0:32
  Joe [00:04:57]: go from there. Everybody just a joyous day bottling with friends. Yes.
• 0:33
  Andrea Morris [00:05:02]: That sounds like fun.
• 0:34
  Rob [00:05:03]: Yeah. It is.
• 0:35
  Andrea Morris [00:05:04]: Like your own little wine club.
• 0:36
  Joe [00:05:06]: Yes. That was it. It was the Haines Street wine club.
• 0:37
  Andrea Morris [00:05:09]: So when did the wine club expand then to be for
• 0:38
  Rob [00:05:12]: Well, now now as of, we so fast forward from 2013 to 02/2023, we get our license and we opened in May of last year, so May 2023. And, probably six months later, we started our own little official wine club called The Committee, which is a testament to the vultures that hang out and and, roost in our trees. So, fun fact, a group of vultures is called The Committee. So we decided to call our wine club The Committee. And every year, about 40 or 50 of them hang out in the trees and, keep a watch over the place. So they're probably heading south right around now, but, they've been hanging out here since we've owned the properties for twenty two years.
• 0:39
  Andrea Morris [00:05:59]: I'm surprised you don't have a vulture on your logo then.
• 0:40
  Rob [00:06:02]: That would be interesting. Yes. Yes. You never know.
• 0:41
  Andrea Morris [00:06:05]: Could be a new wine club. It could be. Yeah. Yes.
• 0:42
  Rob [00:06:08]: Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Special release. Yes. Special release.
• 0:43
  Andrea Morris [00:06:11]: So the winery has been open since 2023, and I just discovered it. Well, I'd heard about it, but I could never find it. Because it's just like it really is just like a little driveway back here to this beautiful vineyard. But it's well worth, like, putting it on your Google map, trying to find it because I was really impressed with your wines.
• 0:44
  Joe [00:06:35]: Oh, thanks.
• 0:45
  Andrea Morris [00:06:36]: And I'm really excited for us to, like, taste them and talk about it with our listeners so that they know to make the trip out here to see you guys because really, everybody that I've recommended you to has come back and said the same thing spectacular.
• 0:46
  Joe [00:06:48]: Wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah.
• 0:47
  Rob [00:06:51]: So, when you would tell us when you'd like to start
• 0:48
  Andrea Morris [00:06:54]: Let's get the ball rolling, fellas. Let's have some wine.
• 0:49
  Rob [00:06:57]: We'll start with our Riesling twenty twenty three.
• 0:50
  Joe [00:07:00]: So this we do we do our our whites, dry. We like dry crispy whites and roses. So that's the style. We're able like I often say this. We're able to just make wines we like and then have faith that our, the people who come out will enjoy that have the same tastes we do. And so far, I mean, it's what they say to your face, but we've we've gotten great responses.
• 0:51
  Andrea Morris [00:07:29]: Well, you've sold out of quite a few wines, so I think that that means that you're doing something right.
• 0:52
  Rob [00:07:34]: Yeah. Let's hope so.
• 0:53
  Andrea Morris [00:07:37]: Yeah. But, you know, and I think that's kind of a cool approach. Just be like, I wanna do what I like and
• 0:54
  Joe [00:07:43]: Well, that's how you know if you hit
• 0:55
  Andrea Morris [00:07:44]: the mark. Right? Right. Yeah.
• 0:56
  Joe [00:07:47]: But you can hit numbers. You you do your tests. You you're looking at sugars and acids and all that, but until it tastes good
• 0:57
  Andrea Morris [00:07:54]: Did you so you didn't go to school for winemaking?
• 0:58
  Joe [00:07:57]: Rob did.
• 0:59
  Rob [00:07:58]: Okay. Yeah. In 2018 both Joe and I, we and the partners, our wives said okay let's make a run at building a winery. And so I retired and went to Brock University to the to get a certificate in winemaking and viticulture. So along the way, you learn the science of it and combined with our ten years of amateur winemaking, we we kinda started to figure out what do we wanna make. Right? And how do we wanna do it? What's our philosophy? And I think we've been impressed by so many great winemakers from the region, and partners that we sell our fruit to. So we sell our our pinot noir to Thomas Botchelder and to Adam, Lowy and Matt Smith at. And, so we we started to evolve our philosophy of kind of limited to low intervention winemaking using indigenous yeast.
• 1:00
  Rob [00:08:53]: So that's that's what's happened over this last ten, twelve years or so. It's kind of an evolution to as Joe said, let the vineyard do the talking, intervene as little as possible, and, one of those is letting indigenous wild yeast, lead the fruit.
• 1:01
  Andrea Morris [00:09:10]: That's great. Mhmm. Yeah. So tell me the story behind this Riesling then.
• 1:02
  Rob [00:09:14]: So this, picked last year, 11/10/2023, so a fairly late pick. We like the complexity that it gives us. Again, wild ferments, stainless steel, and then, it's got about six grams residual sugar and still some nice crisp acidity. So we like to go for that balanced, kind of smooth clean tasting.
• 1:03
  Andrea Morris [00:09:37]: It's a really pretty color. It almost looks like a Chardonnay.
• 1:04
  Rob [00:09:40]: I think if I we could attribute that to the later pick. Right? You go from kind of green berries to kind of golden caramel berries in the November time frame.
• 1:05
  Andrea Morris [00:09:49]: It's got a really nice nose. It kinda smells a little sweet
• 1:06
  Rob [00:09:52]: Mhmm.
• 1:07
  Andrea Morris [00:09:53]: Which, you know, but it's got it it smells a little citrusy, but a little sweet, but I'm betting it's not gonna be as sweet as it smells like.
• 1:08
  Joe [00:09:59]: Mhmm. And a fair bit of minerality, we always get a
• 1:09
  Andrea Morris [00:10:03]: line Yeah. Very nice minerality.
• 1:10
  Joe [00:10:05]: Through here. Right? And I think it's being just below the the escarpment, there's always that minerality coming.
• 1:11
  Andrea Morris [00:10:11]: But it's got this really nice that really nice smooth, like like, warm taste to it that I find that I get with a lot of Rieslings that are done on the other side of King Street. Most of the ones that are done on the lakebed area have that softness that yours has, which is interesting because you're on the other side.
• 1:12
  Rob [00:10:28]: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And, you know, back to,
• 1:13
  Joe [00:10:32]: this was these it came from these vines right here,
• 1:14
  Rob [00:10:36]: planted in o seven, and this is, the vice clone. So 21 b, it's from the region. Brought I think a lot of, on this on the bench, there's a lot of 21 b. It seems to be kind of the classic. So, and then, yeah, with the clay and limestone soils, you get that minerality. And we're always trying to get that balance. I think, both Joe and I worked at Cave Spring. And That
• 1:15
  Andrea Morris [00:11:05]: would be why. Yeah.
• 1:16
  Rob [00:11:06]: Yeah. We love we love all of their rieslings. Mhmm. Certainly, this is kind of the style that we, over the years, have kinda gravitated to what we like.
• 1:17
  Andrea Morris [00:11:17]: It's a nice blend of the citrusy and the warmth and the softness that it it's it's a really great riesling.
• 1:18
  Rob [00:11:23]: Oh, thank you.
• 1:19
  Andrea Morris [00:11:24]: I know that everyone I everyone I brought to your winery has come home with it. So that's a testament.
• 1:20
  Joe [00:11:30]: Yes. Yeah. Are we always generating that one to one on sugar to acid or in that neighborhood. Right? So six grams of sugar, seven seven and a half grams of acid. And that seems to get us to a quote unquote sweet spot that really works.
• 1:21
  Rob [00:11:47]: Yeah. Nicely balanced.
• 1:22
  Andrea Morris [00:11:49]: Yeah. I think it is. It's a really nicely balanced Riesling and a really nice color as well. Mhmm.
• 1:23
  Rob [00:11:53]: Like I
• 1:24
  Andrea Morris [00:11:54]: said, it's a little it's a little darker than most Rieslings. But
• 1:25
  Rob [00:11:58]: Yeah. I I I agree. I think it's got that nice little kind of
• 1:26
  Andrea Morris [00:12:03]: medium
• 1:27
  Rob [00:12:03]: intensity. Again, I think we attribute it to the later pick. There's lots of things that go into that. But, you know, when you pick a dried Riesling in November, you're gonna get a little more flavor and a little more color.
• 1:28
  Joe [00:12:19]: Have you
• 1:29
  Andrea Morris [00:12:19]: picked your Riesling for this year yet?
• 1:30
  Rob [00:12:20]: We did. We picked it a couple weeks ago. Yeah.
• 1:31
  Andrea Morris [00:12:22]: So that'll be interesting to see if it has the same
• 1:32
  Joe [00:12:25]: Yes.
• 1:33
  Andrea Morris [00:12:25]: The same taste.
• 1:34
  Rob [00:12:26]: Yes. Yep. Yeah. It must have been kind of even, two, three weeks ago.
• 1:35
  Joe [00:12:32]: Wow. Yep. And this one that we're tasting out of 2023 from these vines closest to the winery, they are always slow to drop acid. So that may be some of what we're seeing here. We the acids stay high, so it stays fresh even as as the berries turn color and seem to be going golden. There's still a lift from the acidity right here, which, you know, we've got rows that we planted earlier on that are, you know, 500 meters away, and they they gain sugars and drop acids a lot quicker.
• 1:36
  Andrea Morris [00:13:09]: It's funny how just that little bit of shift in the terrain can change so much.
• 1:37
  Rob [00:13:14]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this it always drops kind of going northwest. So this would be kind of
• 1:38
  Joe [00:13:21]: the coolest part of the vineyard, I
• 1:39
  Rob [00:13:22]: think. So that could be one of the reasons for sure.
• 1:40
  Andrea Morris [00:13:25]: Well, I'm interested to see what the next vintage will taste like because this is this is a really spectacular riesling.
• 1:41
  Rob [00:13:31]: Thank you. Yeah. And, you know, this I think of, at all the restaurants, there's this is a big hit with restaurants. I think it's very food friendly. It goes across the gamut. Right? It's because it's dry and nicely balanced, it goes well with a lot of different foods. So we've been really pleased with the response from our restaurant partners
• 1:42
  Joe [00:13:51]: for sure.
• 1:43
  Andrea Morris [00:13:52]: Yeah. I think it would be great with the pasta.
• 1:44
  Rob [00:13:54]: Mhmm. But like a a creamy
• 1:45
  Andrea Morris [00:13:56]: A creamy. I was just thinking of that.
• 1:46
  Rob [00:13:57]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:47
  Andrea Morris [00:13:59]: With some mushrooms and yeah. Now I'm getting hungry.
• 1:48
  Joe [00:14:02]: This is only our second riesling when we first opened. Like, we haven't been able to do Riesling for a while because before we had opened, we we made a a 2019 Riesling. And then we thought we were opening in 2021, and we thought we were opening in 2022, and then we finally got the doors open in 2023. So we took a break and didn't make volumes of Riesling in between. So now to get back to it, it's exciting again to be, you know, getting to touch all the different varieties that we have to choose from.
• 1:49
  Andrea Morris [00:14:36]: Yeah. That's great. I'm I'm really happy about your Riese Lagoon. A big fan, obviously. So Great. Yeah.
• 1:50
  Rob [00:14:42]: So okay. So next up, we're gonna go, from and by the way, I think we should describe, we're we're very fortunate to have, three different unique vineyards, say, within the family. The first one is our Hank Vineyard, which is our steak vineyard. And that's short for our two last names, Harold and Shank, kinda smooshed together. And, that's the one that was printed 02/2004 to 02/2007. This next one, I'll let Joe describe. This is a Chardonnay. While I'm pouring, I'll leave it to Joe to to to do the description.
• 1:51
  Joe [00:15:16]: Yeah. So this is, this is from the upper farm. It's a vineyard my brother and I own in, in Saint Catharines at Third Street and Third Avenue. So it's Creek Shores, sub appellation. These vines were planted between 1997 and 02/2001. Oh, so a much older So old vines, a great producer, some real the the vineyard shifts from a a heavier clay in the one corner down to sandier loam
• 1:52
  Andrea Morris [00:15:48]: at
• 1:53
  Joe [00:15:49]: the other end. We're usually up at the heavier end, the fruit that we use for these. And when we again, we like dry. We like crispy whites. So, we made this. We fermented entirely in stainless, and then we aged 40% of it. I mean, we topped 40%, sixty %. We did tiny, tiny volumes of wine.
• 1:54
  Joe [00:16:15]: So we did one neutral oak barrel and one three hundred liter stainless barrel that we aged this wine in for about six months after it finished ferment. So we carried some of the lees along with it, and then we allowed it to, to just age and gain some mouthfeel and round out. That oak barrel was had had five vintages of Pinot Noir through it prior to the the Chardonnay going in. So not in not bringing on toast or or oaky notes. The the buttery nature isn't really brought forward. Just a more an aging vessel.
• 1:55
  Andrea Morris [00:16:55]: Would you ever do a fully oaked Chardonnay?
• 1:56
  Joe [00:16:57]: Never say never say anything. Right? Again, it would be fun. Right now, we like this kind of crispy lighter, more food friendly one, but absolute.
• 1:57
  Andrea Morris [00:17:11]: I I
• 1:58
  Joe [00:17:11]: mean, at some point, maybe not a brand new barrel, but certainly something that's had that's only two or three b and then take the edge off.
• 1:59
  Andrea Morris [00:17:21]: It's just funny because it's a lighter color than the Riesling.
• 2:00
  Joe [00:17:24]: There you are. Yes.
• 2:01
  Andrea Morris [00:17:25]: Yeah.
• 2:02
  Rob [00:17:26]: This was handpicked, hand sorted, and then the whole cluster pressed. So, we're starting with really beautiful fruit and then indigenous wild ferment and natural malolactic conversion. So it gives a nice little softness.
• 2:03
  Andrea Morris [00:17:44]: Yeah. That that was just gonna say you could you could tell that that was where the a little, like, almost butteriness. But it's also got that green apple kind of crispiness with that little bit of butter to it. It's like it's like you had, like, butter on your toast with an apple.
• 2:04
  Joe [00:18:00]: And that's the beauty of the Chardonnay. That that I think for now, what we're doing is letting the fruit sing a little more. And then, like you said, not against doing a big oaky one at some point, but always more about letting the fruit show itself.
• 2:05
  Andrea Morris [00:18:18]: Because I tend to, like I've always tended towards more of the the oak chardonnay because I like that caramelly kind of flavor to it. But this seems to have that without being overpowering.
• 2:06
  Joe [00:18:32]: And that's partially too. I think taking those so when when the ferment was done, we pump the the wine into two different vessels, and then we check the the leaves that are left behind, and they smelled so nice and creamy and fresh. So then we dump some of those in each of those vessels and and make a point of stirring that once a month and keeping those in there. So I think you get that creaminess that along with the malolactic that happens, softens, and gives you all those other things you're you're you're liking that give weight and no feel.
• 2:07
  Rob [00:19:09]: But it's
• 2:08
  Andrea Morris [00:19:09]: the kind of Chardonnay that I would drink just on my own without even having to pair it. It's it's just it's very welcoming. It's and it's light and just approachable.
• 2:09
  Joe [00:19:19]: Yeah. We love it. We've, we've been making it. This is our second commercial vintage, and we did it
• 2:10
  Rob [00:19:25]: in a very similar style. And the feedback from customers and restaurants have been, very positive. So, back to your the point about never say never, we do do a lot of things, on, let's say, the experimental side. Small lot just to kind of always understand what the fruit can give us. So one of the ones we'll get to next is a a a new adventure for us, which is a. Oh. So, every year, we'll try something a little different. Again, just to stretch ourselves, but also to see what can we do that's fun and kind of interesting for our customers as well.
• 2:11
  Rob [00:20:06]: You know? Yeah.
• 2:12
  Andrea Morris [00:20:07]: Yeah. A game sounds very intriguing. It's like a Beaujolais Nouveau, but
• 2:13
  Joe [00:20:12]: Yes. Well, they won't like to call it that.
• 2:14
  Andrea Morris [00:20:14]: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:15
  Rob [00:20:15]: Maybe they call it a a Vineland Nouveau.
• 2:16
  Andrea Morris [00:20:18]: Yeah. Yeah. And have the big when I lived in The UK for a few years and it was always like the big deal was the Beaujolais. It was like, it's Beaujolais time and everybody was just running out and like going to restaurants and having Beaujolais. And Yeah.
• 2:17
  Rob [00:20:31]: That's what we
• 2:18
  Joe [00:20:32]: were hoping for.
• 2:19
  Andrea Morris [00:20:32]: And I had never been like I had never been much of a wine drinker at that point, but then I really got into Beaujolais because everybody was making such a big deal about it. And I was like, well, I better try that too. And now every year, I'm like, it's Beaujolais time.
• 2:20
  Rob [00:20:45]: Oh, perfect.
• 2:21
  Andrea Morris [00:20:46]: So see? I like You're who we're after. Yeah. I'll lead the parade for your Gamay Beaujolais.
• 2:22
  Joe [00:20:51]: Would you like to try some of our this
• 2:23
  Rob [00:20:53]: hasn't even been, officially bottled yet.
• 2:24
  Andrea Morris [00:20:56]: Oh my gosh. I'm so excited.
• 2:25
  Rob [00:20:57]: So this is, I was reading up on and everything, and and it's we picked this in February and, September 26. So to make a line, the bottom of the line, and have it out within two months is, something we've never done before, but we're pleased with how it's turned out. So this is, done in kind of that traditional Beaujolais Nouveau style with We can call it that. Right. With, carbonic maceration. So if you're familiar with that, we loaded up a stainless steel tank with whole handpicked clusters of gamma, made sure there was no oxygen, topped it with c o two, and then it does its magic. Yeah. An enzymatic fermentation within the berries.
• 2:26
  Rob [00:21:56]: And then when that was complete, pressed, destemmed, and then fermented with indigenous yeast to dryness. And, it's unfiltered and, about to be bottled in the next week or so once the crooks arrive.
• 2:27
  Andrea Morris [00:22:10]: It's a really pretty color.
• 2:28
  Rob [00:22:12]: Thank you. Yeah.
• 2:29
  Joe [00:22:12]: It's purply around the edges that
• 2:30
  Andrea Morris [00:22:15]: Yeah. And it change it changes color when you, like, when you swirl it in the glass.
• 2:31
  Rob [00:22:19]: Hell. Color stood out to me as well.
• 2:32
  Joe [00:22:21]: Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic.
• 2:33
  Rob [00:22:23]: Yeah. So this is what's so fascinating about that that style is the enzymes do the fermentation within the grape, and that releases all these colors and these kind of cinnamon spices and
• 2:34
  Andrea Morris [00:22:38]: It's like a little cranberry back on the back of the
• 2:35
  Joe [00:22:40]: candy on it.
• 2:36
  Andrea Morris [00:22:42]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's crisp, though, which you don't often see in a red wine. It's really it's really cool.
• 2:37
  Joe [00:22:50]: Yeah. The the tannins aren't there. Right? The tannins fall away. The, and it goes through a malic conversion as well. So then that softens acidity even further. So it's a it's just a fun, fresh Yeah. Served chilled.
• 2:38
  Andrea Morris [00:23:09]: Sassy.
• 2:39
  Rob [00:23:10]: Sassy. Sassy. Yeah. That's a good word.
• 2:40
  Andrea Morris [00:23:13]: It is. It's like a sassy little wine because it's just it's it's it's not what you would expect from a Gamay product. Yeah. Because I I I I I've been again, I always say this, like, I always call Gamay a gateway red.
• 2:41
  Rob [00:23:26]: Yes.
• 2:42
  Andrea Morris [00:23:26]: But this is, like, this makes Gamay feel more special.
• 2:43
  Joe [00:23:30]: Fine. I mean, we're pretty new, so we better not be too jaded yet or And worn down by the Yeah. But it is good to bring in fun and exciting and and will this get across the finish line?
• 2:44
  Rob [00:23:43]: Stop this. Right?
• 2:45
  Joe [00:23:44]: This was this was, not guaranteed to get to this point.
• 2:46
  Rob [00:23:49]: Right? Because, again, I'm sure you know about this process, but for listeners, it has to be fermented at a fairly high temperature. So we have jacketed tanks, but we're doing a fairly small volume. So we have to brainstorm how do we heat up this ferment. So we bought a heated an electric blanket and wrapped the tank in electric blanket together. Seriously? We have to get it to 30 degrees Celsius is where you wanna be for about ten days to kind of facilitate this. Right? So Wow. The extent of our intervention is we wrap the tank in in a blanket, and that's about it. Yeah.
• 2:47
  Andrea Morris [00:24:25]: That is that's a great story. It's like the inventiveness that you
• 2:48
  Rob [00:24:30]: have to
• 2:49
  Andrea Morris [00:24:30]: have in winemaking. Right? Like, thinking outside the box Yes. But it's well worth it because this is a beautiful color, and it's just it's refreshing.
• 2:50
  Rob [00:24:38]: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:51
  Joe [00:24:39]: Yeah. It's fun.
• 2:52
  Andrea Morris [00:24:40]: I hope you invite me to the party.
• 2:53
  Rob [00:24:41]: My plan is to do a, like, a four day amazing celebration. Boy, I I really went there. It's gonna be, Thursday, November 21. We're gonna be in St. Catharines in Toronto and in London doing a tri city release, and then at the winery Friday, Saturday, Sunday, to share our Gamay Nouveau with the world.
• 2:54
  Andrea Morris [00:25:06]: So Oh, that's perfect.
• 2:55
  Rob [00:25:07]: Excited about it. For sure.
• 2:56
  Andrea Morris [00:25:09]: Yay. Because I happen to have a friend coming out that weekend, and so we'll be here on Friday.
• 2:57
  Rob [00:25:14]: Alright. Very good.
• 2:58
  Andrea Morris [00:25:15]: Perfect. Yay. This is so great. I'm really excited. I love when people in the area do something different than than the the norm. And it's just, like, so much fun that you guys are doing this, and it's, like, I'm really excited.
• 2:59
  Rob [00:25:27]: Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I I think we'll introduce the next vineyard, in our in our group. And this this game made comes from the Haines Street Vineyard, which I'll leave Joe to describe.
• 3:00
  Joe [00:25:40]: Yeah. That's also Tracy and I. So, we've got a small vineyard where where our home is in Jordan. That one was planted with Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc back in February. And then those winters of 1314, there was a lot of vine damage, and we ended up pulling out some capsoff and ended up in 2021 replanting with this with Gamay. So I've got two acres of Cabernet Sauvignon, two acres of Gamay, two acres of Cabernet Franc there. And so this is our first venture into that fairly young Gamay vineyard. So we're to make a fairly young Gamay with it.
• 3:01
  Andrea Morris [00:26:26]: It's a great first venture.
• 3:02
  Rob [00:26:28]: Oh, thank you. This is what we love to do. Right? It's, the four of us always loved the whole idea of bringing people together around wine and food. So to be able to do this, it's like kids in the candy store.
• 3:03
  Andrea Morris [00:26:41]: But it also takes away, like, so many people think wine is so pretentious. But you guys are proving that wine is so much fun. Mhmm. And I think that that's what's great about this, that that it's not that you don't have to know about all the particulars about wine. Oh, no. You just have to be able to enjoy it.
• 3:04
  Joe [00:26:57]: And we probably tell people too much, maybe overshare and describe too much about the how we're making it and what we're doing on that front to the point where, you know, you wonder if people get in their cars thinking, do they ever stop? But, that's the that's the only way we can, you know, we we the enthusiasm is just there. Yes. It's your it's it's your baby. Yeah. Exactly. So you wanna let them know everything that your baby did.
• 3:05
  Andrea Morris [00:27:27]: But I think it's also, like, yeah. Here's a picture of the grape when we planted the the the
• 3:06
  Rob [00:27:32]: Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:07
  Andrea Morris [00:27:33]: We bought these little these little tiny vines. They were this big, and now look at them and then
• 3:08
  Joe [00:27:37]: yeah. Yeah.
• 3:09
  Rob [00:27:37]: Well, and I often
• 3:10
  Joe [00:27:38]: go back to the that vineyard on Haines Street. We remember clearly that it was February because Tracy was we had our a two year old, and she was pregnant with the with our youngest. And, there's just this picture of the vineyard being planted with the little with the little family there.
• 3:11
  Andrea Morris [00:27:58]: Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. But it is I I think for me, I know that I appreciate wine so much more the more I talk to people like you guys and the more I talk to people from all these different vineyards that and and wineries that the amount of thought process that goes into it and just like, there's so many things that are outside of your that are outside of your norm and outside of your control, like the weather and all kinds of things like that that you have no idea. You basically are operating on faith that what your vision is is gonna happen.
• 3:12
  Rob [00:28:31]: Sure. I agree. And
• 3:13
  Andrea Morris [00:28:32]: I think when you understand that, you appreciate wine even more.
• 3:14
  Rob [00:28:35]: Yeah. Yeah. You know, Liz and I my wife, Liz, and I went to New Zealand in 2019 and just volunteered at wineries and all around for about four months. And at one place we went to, we harvested over, like, four days. There was a harvest dinner. And we asked the owners, is there any advice you could give us as we set on our journey to our winery? And they said optimism and patience. Right?
• 3:15
  Joe [00:29:00]: And that's that's been a kind of and then COVID hit us. So we were we
• 3:16
  Rob [00:29:04]: were always being optimistic. You gotta be optimistic and patient. Right?
• 3:17
  Andrea Morris [00:29:08]: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Rob [00:29:09]: It's gonna work out. You can figure out a way. And, and as long as you kinda keep that attitude, at least for me, it's, it's helpful. Right? Even this year during the rain, and I'll be optimistic that September will be better. And sure enough, September was better. Right? So you gotta stay optimistic in this game for sure and patient.
• 3:19
  Andrea Morris [00:29:29]: People come out here and buy wine right from the source.
• 3:20
  Rob [00:29:31]: Yes. So now we're gonna move back to Hanged Vineyard to our Pinot Noir.
• 3:21
  Andrea Morris [00:29:36]: Yay.
• 3:22
  Rob [00:29:37]: So we have two different Pinots, two two Benched Fists. We'll start with the 2019 and then 2021. So these, Hanged Vineyard Pinot Noir, interestingly, we, have been selling to Thomas Bach Elder and to Cloudsleaf for a number of years our pinot noir. And when we told them we were opening a winery, their first question was, do we still get your pinot? And we said, yeah. We'll we'll figure out a way to give you some rose. So every year, we basically pick on the same day, and then everybody goes into their separate corners. But it's always Haig Vineyard Pinot Noir planted in 02/2005, '2 thousand and '6. So this is our 2019 Pinot Noir.
• 3:23
  Rob [00:30:17]: And the philosophy, as we talked about before, this is handpicked, hand sorted, wild ferment, natural mallow, twenty one months French oak, 33% new.
• 3:24
  Andrea Morris [00:30:32]: It's really got a a completely different nose than most pinots I've ever had.
• 3:25
  Rob [00:30:38]: Yes. It's more complex. This has some layers to it
• 3:26
  Andrea Morris [00:30:42]: for sure.
• 3:27
  Joe [00:30:42]: Definitely. Yeah.
• 3:28
  Rob [00:30:44]: Some earthiness, some truffle Yeah.
• 3:29
  Joe [00:30:48]: Matchstick. Very
• 3:30
  Rob [00:30:49]: yeah. So, yeah, we love, where the Pinot Noir is going from our Hanged Vineyard. It's knocking on twenty years now planted. So we're really excited about kinda getting we have two acres of older vine, Pina, let's say eighteen year old vines, and then we planted another acre, four years ago.
• 3:31
  Andrea Morris [00:31:12]: It's almost got a mushroomy kind of
• 3:32
  Rob [00:31:15]: Yeah. This is why when we talk to other guests that have tried it and we'll we'll get to the 2021, they see the 19 as the more food friendly. They they there's a lot of things to match to food for sure. Whereas the twenty twenty one is a little lighter and a little more approachable, but there's a lot of complexity in this 19 that lends itself to food pairing.
• 3:33
  Andrea Morris [00:31:37]: It's really earthy.
• 3:34
  Rob [00:31:38]: Mhmm.
• 3:35
  Andrea Morris [00:31:39]: And and I will say this. I remember the first time I tried this, I wasn't sure. And then on the second sip, third sip by the third sip, I was like, this is my new favorite. You know? Like,
• 3:36
  Rob [00:31:48]: this is
• 3:37
  Andrea Morris [00:31:49]: it because I think it it the more you drink it, the more the you you taste other things in it. But, initially, it does have a very, like, earthy, like I said, mushroomy kind of smell to it.
• 3:38
  Rob [00:32:01]: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. We really love this one. And it's fascinating to watch it over time because when it was bottled, it was a little more earthy. And, and even in the glass, like, after five minutes, it it just kinda changes and evolves. So
• 3:39
  Andrea Morris [00:32:16]: we're Yeah.
• 3:40
  Rob [00:32:17]: We're happy super happy where it is now, but where it's gonna go, we think it's it's gonna start integrating.
• 3:41
  Andrea Morris [00:32:24]: I mean, if you sellered this, imagine, in a couple years, I don't know what that would be like because I would be drinking it. But This is
• 3:42
  Rob [00:32:32]: the one that I that we're
• 3:43
  Joe [00:32:33]: I feel like has another seven or eight years.
• 3:44
  Andrea Morris [00:32:36]: Yeah. I think easily. I think I think in, like, even in, like, two or three years, this would be, like, you'd open this and probably just die because it was so good.
• 3:45
  Joe [00:32:46]: Yeah. There's a depth and richness to it that we you know, sometimes they're more on
• 3:46
  Rob [00:32:51]: an
• 3:47
  Joe [00:32:52]: ethereal level. Like, I do think the '21 has some complexity there, but it's lightness and you and you're, yeah, you know, it's hard to grasp entirely, whereas this has got a a weight to it that carries carries a lot. And not unlike the 2020, which was a big, bold, dark keynote, but I think this has more complexity than the 2020. That's great. The 2020 was crowd pleasers. Right? I I you probably know the reds across the region.
• 3:48
  Andrea Morris [00:33:24]: 2020. Right?
• 3:49
  Joe [00:33:25]: Pleasers in 2020. It was an maybe uncharacteristic in Pinot to be so rich and deep and ready to drink today. But
• 3:50
  Andrea Morris [00:33:36]: Yeah. Because I always find Pinot's to be a little thin, but that's okay. But this is not.
• 3:51
  Rob [00:33:42]: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So it has, we're really pleased with it. And, well, to be honest with you, we're pleased with all the pinots since 2013 when we made our first one. And every year, we we hold a Pinot Noir vertical event on in August where we go through four years to kind of explore how it's evolved and changed and to compare across vintages. So it's fascinating evening because in some ways, the winemaking, the fruit's the exact same. It's really the year that's changed.
• 3:52
  Rob [00:34:17]: Right? The weather, and so you can really almost see it in the glass. Right? And then once you smell it and taste it, you can kind of almost transport yourself back to 2021 or 2020 when everybody was happy in 2020. It was COVID, but it was beautiful weather. Right? That's for sure. It was really wonderful weather here in 2020. So
• 3:53
  Andrea Morris [00:34:36]: Yeah. Winegrowers were happy.
• 3:54
  Rob [00:34:38]: Yes. Yes. Exactly.
• 3:55
  Joe [00:34:39]: Yeah. So speaking of the, the vertical. So the 2019, a year ago, in August, we did our vertical night, and it was a much more closed and maybe more reductive nose on it. And we do a show of hands at the end of the tasting of the four wines. What's your favorite? What's your favorite? And I would there was about 10% of people chose the 19 as their favorite in August of twenty three. Fast forward to August of twenty four, and it was probably more like 30% of the room is chose it as their favorite. So just that integration in the bottle has taken it to another level.
• 3:56
  Andrea Morris [00:35:19]: But that Hank Vineyard is like like I was at Bachtelder on the weekend, and the I when I saw that, I was like, I know that's gonna be a great peanut. Yeah. Because I know that the Yeah. I know the wines that the grapes that you produce from that vineyard Yeah. Are spectacular. And it was a really great Pinot as
• 3:57
  Rob [00:35:35]: well.
• 3:58
  Joe [00:35:35]: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Well, and so we planted another acre of, of Pinot Noir wines. We pulled out some more Reasoning. And in 2021, we planted another acre. And next spring, we'll plant. We pulled out some more reasoning.
• 3:59
  Joe [00:35:49]: We'll plant another acre of Pinot because we're to date, that's that's the message we're getting. Right? This is a unique spot for our
• 4:00
  Andrea Morris [00:35:58]: It really is because it's it it produces a spectacular Pinot. So I think you're wise to do that.
• 4:01
  Joe [00:36:04]: Thank you.
• 4:02
  Rob [00:36:05]: Yeah. Speaking of pinot, would you like to try the twenty twenty one?
• 4:03
  Andrea Morris [00:36:08]: Well, you know, twist my rubber arm.
• 4:04
  Rob [00:36:12]: This is 2021, so but pretty much the exact same approach. Wild, wild for men, hand picked, hand sorted, twenty one months, French oak, 33% new. So the exact same approach
• 4:05
  Andrea Morris [00:36:25]: But different color.
• 4:06
  Joe [00:36:26]: Yes.
• 4:07
  Rob [00:36:27]: A little lighter. Twenty one was, an interesting year from a weather perspective. It was really nice until August, and then it was cloudy and rainy during harvest until, let's say, the September. So this is why we attribute that this is a little lighter in color.
• 4:08
  Andrea Morris [00:36:44]: Much lighter and also doesn't have that earthiness on the on the nose.
• 4:09
  Joe [00:36:48]: Yeah. Yeah. More floral.
• 4:10
  Andrea Morris [00:36:49]: It's much more floral. Yeah.
• 4:11
  Joe [00:36:51]: Red red fruit. Yeah. A really red cherry.
• 4:12
  Andrea Morris [00:36:56]: Yeah. Definitely red cherry smell
• 4:13
  Joe [00:36:58]: to it. Mhmm.
• 4:14
  Rob [00:36:59]: Yeah. I I think that's the feedback. You know, we we decided to sell them side by side, offer them to customers side by side, and it's about $50.50. Some people say I'm gonna take the 19 for food, and I'm gonna take this because it's a little more approachable. I'm gonna just it'll be my sipping, you know, on a Friday night or something like that. So it's fascinating. Again, the same approach, same fruit,
• 4:15
  Andrea Morris [00:37:24]: and Different year.
• 4:16
  Joe [00:37:26]: Year mix. Yeah. Long down.
• 4:17
  Andrea Morris [00:37:27]: Which also was to show you how much the weather is plays a factor in the in the in the taste of wine.
• 4:18
  Rob [00:37:32]: Right. Yeah.
• 4:19
  Andrea Morris [00:37:32]: Because it was a very rainy fall. I seem to remember that everybody was losing crops that year.
• 4:20
  Rob [00:37:39]: It was it was a tougher year for sure, but it was really beautiful until the August. So it it it set us up for success. And because this is this was picked, I think, like, just after mid September or so, so, it's a little lighter, but still has that flavor. Right?
• 4:21
  Andrea Morris [00:37:57]: It's a little peppery on the nose, but but really nice. It's still and not to say it's not a great Pinot. It really is. It's it's, it's just I think that the the previous one was much more complex. Mhmm.
• 4:22
  Joe [00:38:08]: Yeah. Let's see. That's I always describe it as ethereal. I guess it's just Mhmm. Light and lifted.
• 4:23
  Andrea Morris [00:38:14]: It is.
• 4:24
  Joe [00:38:15]: Yep. And pinot is notoriously it is a thin skinned grape. So it was a a challenging harvest. Right? You've got really lovely fruit that's ripened up. And then when rains hit, it's it's a lot of sorting in the vineyard. It's a lot of, care has to go into making sure you get really clean fruit coming into the winery.
• 4:25
  Andrea Morris [00:38:38]: Well, since you do Pinot, Gamay, and Chardonnay, have you ever thought about doing a rose?
• 4:26
  Joe [00:38:42]: We do. We do Pinot, Pinot, and our rose.
• 4:27
  Andrea Morris [00:38:45]: Damn it. Yeah.
• 4:28
  Joe [00:38:47]: We've sold three vintages in a year. Yes. Wow. So we were, we started out we do again, let's go back. We do ridiculously small volumes of almost everything we do. So the the rose, we've we've gone through three vintages of that. We've gone through three vintages of sauvignon blanc. We've gone through we're on our second vintage of of Chardonnay, and we're, let's say, sixteen, eighteen months into this venture of selling wine.
• 4:29
  Joe [00:39:21]: So we've got Pinot Noir Rose in the back that we that's been finished and it's kind of put to bed right now. So, yeah, wait till April, let's say. Yes. April, May, we do a release. That's all part of it too. We'll do It
• 4:30
  Andrea Morris [00:39:37]: just seems so far away.
• 4:31
  Rob [00:39:38]: Yes. Doesn't it?
• 4:32
  Joe [00:39:40]: We do release days again to bring traffic in and to and to get feedback. Right? To celebrate with people. The more people come through and taste in your presence, then you get a better sense of whether you're doing it right.
• 4:33
  Andrea Morris [00:39:55]: Well, I would say that I tried yours. I I, like, blind bought your Sauvignon Blanc because I had been here. We're tasting with you. And I was like, I'm gonna it's not you only have, like, four bottles left. I'm just gonna buy that because I wanna try it. And then I actually wanted to call you and go, could you save the last bottles for me? Yeah. Because it was so good. I was blown away.
• 4:34
  Andrea Morris [00:40:18]: And then I gave mine up to other people. So
• 4:35
  Rob [00:40:21]: You're very kind. Yeah. You know, I I think that's the other thing we haven't touched on is, yes, we make a pinot noir rose, and we follow that same process. Right? We want really crisp and clean, and, the last couple of vintages have gone to complete dryness, but really balanced and lovely. So, we were surprised at how quickly that went. Right? So we were pleased, but we're we made more this year at least.
• 4:36
  Andrea Morris [00:40:48]: Thank god. And the same with
• 4:37
  Rob [00:40:50]: our Sauvignon Blanc, which, you touched on. We we're into our our fourth, vintage is in tank right now. It's finished. And Tate and I tried it this morning, on our, morning routine of tasting through things, and, we think it's gonna be another cracker of a vintage. So, we're really excited about some some new block. We have two acres planted, and, that was planted, I think, o four or five, somewhere around there.
• 4:38
  Andrea Morris [00:41:19]: We might have to come back and do another, like, you know, like, a little, like, you know, special addendum Sure. On the rose and
• 4:39
  Rob [00:41:25]: then And and Pet Nuts.
• 4:40
  Andrea Morris [00:41:26]: Yeah. Exactly.
• 4:41
  Rob [00:41:27]: Gotten into Pet Nuts yet.
• 4:42
  Andrea Morris [00:41:28]: Oh my god.
• 4:43
  Joe [00:41:29]: We could do a tank taste test rather than bottle taste.
• 4:44
  Andrea Morris [00:41:33]: Oh my god. I love that. That would be fantastic. Yeah.
• 4:45
  Rob [00:41:36]: So, yeah, speaking of that, just to kinda round out the Pet Nuts, we, long time ago, started doing it as amateurs.
• 4:46
  Andrea Morris [00:41:44]: Mhmm.
• 4:47
  Rob [00:41:44]: We like bubbles. We like the fun of bubbles. We like greeting people with, bubbles. So last year, we made a pet net from everything on the vineyard. So we did a Riesling, a Sauvignon Blanc, a Converge Germain, and a Pinot Noir Rose pet net, and they sold very, very quickly. So we made more this year, and, we're gonna have a release party. Typically, it's in April. So stay tuned, everybody.
• 4:48
  Rob [00:42:12]: In April, we'll have a a a four varietal kind of pet nap party.
• 4:49
  Joe [00:42:17]: So that's
• 4:50
  Rob [00:42:18]: why you're having some
• 4:51
  Andrea Morris [00:42:19]: out the door by then.
• 4:52
  Rob [00:42:22]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it went very quickly. So, so now going to the last wine we have, we're gonna go we're gonna leave Hank Vineyard. We're gonna go back to Haines Street Vineyard for our Cabernet Sauvignon 02/2021.
• 4:53
  Joe [00:42:39]: So, all those challenges that we saw in Pinot Noir in 2021, like we said, we had a a sunny summer, lovely, middle August starts raining, stops by the September. So that's a challenge in Pinot world. So long too because you've got harvest coming right in that window. But with the calves, they don't generally harvest till November, let's say. First of last week of October to November. So the rains came, gave them a bit of a boost, and then the rain stopped. So then October was lovely again right into harvest of calves. So it really didn't, it it didn't cause us any harm really on on the calves.
• 4:54
  Joe [00:43:31]: This calves sold planted in February. Tracy and I have been farming it for all those years. Never produce as much
• 4:55
  Rob [00:43:40]: crop. So,
• 4:56
  Joe [00:43:42]: in in winery talk, that's low yield, high quality. In farmer talk, that's just low yield. So, it's just been nice to be able to utilize the fruit now in a in a what we think is a superior product. Right? Mhmm. It's, it becomes rich and concentrated. There's not a not so many Cabernet Sauvignon around. Right? No.
• 4:57
  Andrea Morris [00:44:09]: There aren't.
• 4:58
  Joe [00:44:09]: There's more Cab Franc than Cab Sauv, but, I think
• 4:59
  Andrea Morris [00:44:14]: The Lakes Owners are beautiful.
• 5:00
  Joe [00:44:15]: Depth and richness to Cab Sauv that it still entices us. Agreed? Yeah.
• 5:01
  Rob [00:44:21]: So this one, we've just released. So a 2021 released in 2024. It was barrel aged for just under three years. So, we took the best of the twenty twenty one different barrels, put it back into a neutral barrel for another year, and bottled it in June of this year. So gives a little more richness, little more complexity. And, yeah, we love how this this is showing right now. It's really approachable. And, we do have a Cabernet Franc as well, but that's gonna be released next year as well.
• 5:02
  Rob [00:44:55]: So, yeah. We're good. Just thought I'd let you know. Always leave them
• 5:03
  Joe [00:45:01]: a lot more.
• 5:04
  Andrea Morris [00:45:02]: Exactly. It's like you're like it's like you're like like the greyhound at the race. You're like, it's like holding the wine bottle in front of me going like, come on, come on. No, this is really nice. It's got a lot of body to it, but I can see that if you sell word this for a couple years, it would be like, don't don't don't even share it with anybody because that's how good it is. It's really cool that you guys are relatively young as a as a winery, but are making wines that are just top notch and right up there with and right up there with other with other wineries.
• 5:05
  Joe [00:45:36]: Yeah.
• 5:06
  Andrea Morris [00:45:37]: Well, thank you. Yeah. Even above be of and above and beyond, I would say.
• 5:07
  Rob [00:45:41]: Wow. That's high praise. Thanks. I mean, we we did our best without saying we've had a lot of help. Right? We have Thomas Poncholder. We have Matt Smith at Constance Sellers Ave. And the greater community here is super helpful. Right? Anybody that we sell our fruit to is very willing to share advice for us as we kinda get started up the winery process.
• 5:08
  Rob [00:46:03]: Right? So, I think it's always surprised and overwhelmed, but all of us is the kindness of this community. Right? They're fabulous people, and they're always willing to give you a bit of advice. I do this. That, you know, they're not telling you what to do. They'll just say, no. I've seen this before. This is what I've done in the past. Right? So we, we're we're we're thankful to everybody that has given us advice and continues to give us advice.
• 5:09
  Rob [00:46:30]: Right? We're we're always every vintage is a new challenge and every challenge needs a solution. So we're always talking with local winemakers and kind of getting ideas, you know, so we love that.
• 5:10
  Andrea Morris [00:46:43]: But it's also great because all the people in the winery in the winery business around here also recommend different wineries to so many different people. So, you know, somebody comes in and goes, like, I'm looking for for this particular thing. They always recommend other wineries to go to, and I think that's really cool that there's that support factor in there as well. Yes. That you don't have to worry about that. It's like, no. Like, we're all there for each other. Everybody's got everybody's back.
• 5:11
  Andrea Morris [00:47:07]: And it's yes. It's competitive, but it's also, like, there's room for everyone.
• 5:12
  Rob [00:47:11]: Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. And you know the funny thing about not finding the place the great thing is crowds lease and does a lot of people they can just point out from the
• 5:13
  Joe [00:47:20]: building and say it's that one over there.
• 5:14
  Rob [00:47:23]: But also cassava has been super supportive. Yes. Shout out to Joe and Colin and all. Absolutely. These guys in
• 5:15
  Joe [00:47:30]: the tasting room have sent us so many people. Yeah. You know you just feel blessed. Yes. Why are they Yeah. Thank you.
• 5:16
  Rob [00:47:40]: Yes. Yeah. And, you know, our our friends at Niagara Custom Crush and Dim and a Featherstone, this community around the intersection of King And Victoria is pretty special. So we're really pleased.
• 5:17
  Andrea Morris [00:47:52]: Yeah. Well shout out
• 5:18
  Joe [00:47:54]: to to Kate Spreight. And everybody
• 5:19
  Andrea Morris [00:47:56]: else. You gotta shout out the land and folks at Cave Spring. Yeah.
• 5:20
  Joe [00:47:59]: They helped both Rob and I worked retail learned retail there under Didi, and, and they just
• 5:21
  Rob [00:48:06]: Yeah. Led us down the right path, taught us us how to how to sell wine how to
• 5:22
  Joe [00:48:10]: how to work a tasting room what how to be professional in a in in the retail side of things right and then Len Panachetti he he wondered if we weren't spies. Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:23
  Rob [00:48:24]: You learn from the best.
• 5:24
  Andrea Morris [00:48:27]: And Len is one of the best. Like, we know. We did a we did a podcast with Len, and Len was amazing to talk to. Yeah. And he's just got so many stories. And ironically, we just did a a podcast at sixteen mile cellars, and Morgan, the winemaker, is his daughter-in-law.
• 5:25
  Rob [00:48:45]: Right.
• 5:26
  Andrea Morris [00:48:45]: So she is also have that gift of gab so it's like you know what it's like it's great I love that everyone is so supportive.
• 5:27
  Joe [00:48:54]: Yes. Well Len Len was great Tom has been a friend for years and then Anna Tom's wife she's a vice so this vice clone the Riesling vice clone that first started it was spread at Vineland Estates and Cave Spring were the first to adopt it here that's that's Anna's family from Germany. So the roots are deep and and again, so you take from those people who have thirty years forty years of experience in this business.
• 5:28
  Andrea Morris [00:49:26]: Yeah. And then you guys did them proud. I'm excited for your new ventures. I think that you guys like are like, you you know, it's hard to think of you expanding in this area. But Yeah.
• 5:29
  Rob [00:49:37]: Yeah. You know, we've grown to be very efficient. When we're done here, if you want, you can peek inside. We have every square foot of this place, with fermenting wine at various stages for sure. Yeah.
• 5:30
  Andrea Morris [00:49:49]: But that's great because it's like it's just it's a it's a great use of space, and it's a great little it's a beautiful location, when you can find it.
• 5:31
  Rob [00:49:57]: Yeah. 3845 Victoria Avenue.
• 5:32
  Andrea Morris [00:50:02]: Just go on the web. You know what? In the show notes, we'll have your website. Yes. And everybody can come and contact you. And it's like but honestly, it's a hidden gem that I think is well worth searching out.
• 5:33
  Rob [00:50:13]: Oh, thank you so much.
• 5:34
  Andrea Morris [00:50:14]: Like, you guys are absolutely are absolutely fantastic, and I'm so glad that that we got a chance to chat today. Absolutely. Likewise. Hope that you as a listener really enjoyed your first experience with King and Victoria because it is, again, a hidden gem, but is well worth well worth the visit. You will be in love with these wines when you're here. And if you wanna know more about the wineries, just check out our show notes. We will have the link to their website. We'll have photos of the wines that we tasted.
• 5:35
  Andrea Morris [00:50:42]: And, also, if you wanna get in touch with us and ask more questions, check out our Instagram page, spill the wine underscore podcast. It's on Instagram. And so you can check that out. You can send us a message. We'll direct you to them, and we really hope that you guys will come and check them out. And keep listening to the podcast. Remember to like us and follow us. And you know what? Go out and try some wine.
• 5:36
  Andrea Morris [00:51:05]: Cheers. Cheers. We'll see you next time.