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Are Bush Planes Your Next Over Lander? · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
0:06
Speaker 1: your host Scott Brady, and I am joined today by
0:09
Speaker 1: Dave Hereton. Now you all know Dave from American Expedition Vehicles.
0:14
Speaker 1: He's been on the podcast numerous times because he's literally
0:18
Speaker 1: a savant within the overlanding industry when it comes to
0:22
Speaker 1: engineering and product design. But Dave has a passion for
0:26
Speaker 1: backcountry flying. He has a passion for these bush planes,
0:31
Speaker 1: and there is so much crossover and correlation between overlanding
0:35
Speaker 1: and flying. It's just a much more difficult version of
0:38
Speaker 1: overlanding and maybe the only true form of over land
0:43
Speaker 1: So we go into deep dive into these tandem planes.
0:47
Speaker 1: We talk about different types of bushcraft, a bush aircraft.
0:52
Speaker 1: We also go into how Dave got his licenses, how
0:55
Speaker 1: he got his private pilot's license, how he got his
0:58
Speaker 1: endorsement for a tail dragger. We're talking about experimental aircraft
1:03
Speaker 1: versus certified aircraft. We go into some kind of some
1:06
Speaker 1: fun topics on why this is such an exciting and
1:09
Speaker 1: rapidly growing segment of the adventure travel space. All right, Dave,
1:15
Speaker 1: let's talk airplanes. Yeah, my favorite. I know, I know
1:18
Speaker 1: that has been quite the change for you, because I
1:21
Speaker 1: mean you you basically worked. I know you you've worked
1:24
Speaker 1: seven days a week for eighty seven years and then
1:27
Speaker 1: you got to finally got a chance to do to
1:29
Speaker 1: have a hobby. So I mean, tell me how you
1:32
Speaker 1: got decided to get into planes.
1:35
Speaker 2: Well, like, I think a lot of people childhood dream right, sure,
1:40
Speaker 2: and I'm one of those people unfortunately didn't come from
1:43
Speaker 2: an aviation family. You know, aviation is one of those
1:45
Speaker 2: things it's really hard to get into if you didn't,
1:48
Speaker 2: if you don't know somebody or know something, it's very
1:51
Speaker 2: overwhelming and it seems impossible. So you know, growing up
1:54
Speaker 2: as a kid, I was a model airplane guy. I
1:57
Speaker 2: mean I was, you know, sitting in my room building. Also,
2:00
Speaker 2: airplanes are cooler, and then you know, yeah, you go
2:04
Speaker 2: to college, do the work thing. You never have time
2:07
Speaker 2: or money, right, it's one of the two. Yeah, And
2:10
Speaker 2: you know it's like that for most people.
2:12
Speaker 1: Yeah. And a special thanks to Adrenaline Industries for their
2:17
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2:21
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Speaker 1: Adrenaline Industries will take you further. Thanks again, Adrenaline Industries
3:16
Speaker 1: for making this podcast possible.
3:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a few years ago, I have a friend
3:23
Speaker 2: that had my plane, and basically he took me for
3:29
Speaker 2: a few flights and I probably spent maybe ten hours
3:32
Speaker 2: flying around Montana, Idaho, and I was like hooked, hooked,
3:37
Speaker 2: And I didn't realize at time it's a super cool airplane.
3:41
Speaker 1: I didn't know.
3:41
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know anything from anything on airplane
3:44
Speaker 2: sure really, I mean because I've been out of it
3:46
Speaker 2: for so long, or you know, it wasn't a fighter
3:48
Speaker 2: JIT or something the kids know about I didn't realize
3:51
Speaker 2: how cool it was, but I didn't know, like, it
3:53
Speaker 2: was just an amazing experience flying around and looking at
3:56
Speaker 2: things from the air. And at at some point he
4:00
Speaker 2: decided to upgrade to a newer plane that his friend
4:02
Speaker 2: was selling, and he's like, do you want mine? And
4:04
Speaker 2: I was like, absolutely, yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, And
4:08
Speaker 2: so I didn't have a I had flown like paramots
4:11
Speaker 2: and ultra lights before, but I didn't have a you know,
4:14
Speaker 2: the full pilot license or anything.
4:15
Speaker 1: Because didn't you do some of the paramoting with Clay. Yeah,
4:18
Speaker 1: nice with Clay, that's right. We learned together in Florida
4:21
Speaker 1: or something, right, Yeah, yeah, we had a great time.
4:23
Speaker 2: Awesome, and yeah we get you get really kind of
4:28
Speaker 2: the paramots are really interesting and challenging in their own right. Sure,
4:33
Speaker 2: I personally never really took to it that well, which
4:36
Speaker 2: is surprising because most things dirt bikes, snowbills, you know,
4:40
Speaker 2: you name it. I'm normally pretty good, pretty comfortable at it.
4:43
Speaker 2: Those were really outside my comfort zone, you know, just
4:48
Speaker 2: the fact that you're flying around this like fabric wing
4:50
Speaker 2: over your head.
4:50
Speaker 1: I could see that with a bunch of these little
4:52
Speaker 1: tiny lines, like somehow keeping you from your death. Yeah.
4:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, and where we learned it's like gators everywhere, you know.
5:00
Speaker 1: You could probably see them when you look down.
5:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's fun. And then you're combining with a
5:04
Speaker 2: two stroke of all things motor.
5:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:06
Speaker 2: The whole thing was just like, wow, this is not good,
5:08
Speaker 2: especially when you get back to Montana with you know,
5:12
Speaker 2: higher elevations and everything, bigger mountains, you know, the winds
5:15
Speaker 2: coming over the mountains. It was just I didn't I
5:18
Speaker 2: just never really got comfortable with it. So, you know,
5:21
Speaker 2: fast forward, I buy this airplane and now I'm like, okay,
5:24
Speaker 2: now I'm motivated, and I thought it was going to
5:27
Speaker 2: work out. I kind of did some research and luckily
5:30
Speaker 2: I had some friends that were really in the aviation
5:32
Speaker 2: and kind of gave me some mentorship, which was fantastic
5:35
Speaker 2: because two people in particular, they were both flight instructors
5:39
Speaker 2: and they both you know, did aviation for a living.
5:41
Speaker 2: And I just happened to be friends with them. Wow,
5:43
Speaker 2: and it really worked out, and they were like, well,
5:46
Speaker 2: you know, we don't. Both of them kind of individually
5:49
Speaker 2: said hey, I don't teach regularly, go get your license
5:52
Speaker 2: out of school, do it properly. Come back and I'll
5:55
Speaker 2: teach you how to fly in the mountains.
5:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:57
Speaker 2: Sure, And so I did that, and I thought we
6:01
Speaker 2: were I think we were right at the we thought
6:05
Speaker 2: we'd be done, or I thought we'd be done with
6:06
Speaker 2: the first Chevy program, which was like all encompassing for
6:10
Speaker 2: three years. I thought I'd be done and could take
6:14
Speaker 2: a little bit of time off. So I scheduled to
6:17
Speaker 2: come down the Phoenix, which is kind of the flight
6:20
Speaker 2: training capital of the world.
6:21
Speaker 1: And is that just because the weather is always so
6:23
Speaker 1: considered the weather's great?
6:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean the United States is so unique
6:28
Speaker 2: for aviation that most of the world sends their pilots
6:32
Speaker 2: here to train. I've seen that aviation is kind of
6:35
Speaker 2: the international or English is the international language of aviation,
6:38
Speaker 2: so everybody operates on English. So yeah, like you know,
6:43
Speaker 2: if you're in uh, you know, India, you know you're
6:47
Speaker 2: getting sent here if you're going to be a pilot, sure,
6:50
Speaker 2: or Florida, but generally, you know, I think there's like
6:53
Speaker 2: nineteen or something flight schools down there, you know, Embury
6:56
Speaker 2: Riddles here in Prescott, right, this is like student haven.
7:00
Speaker 2: And yeah, and I came here because I knew I
7:02
Speaker 2: could fly every day without the weather.
7:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you were on a tight timeline.
7:06
Speaker 2: I was on a tight timeline. I said I'd give
7:08
Speaker 2: myself six weeks to get that done. And that's really fast.
7:13
Speaker 2: You can certainly do it in six weeks. I would
7:16
Speaker 2: say seven would be better.
7:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
7:19
Speaker 2: It was really nerve wreck and we got down here
7:21
Speaker 2: and my instructor was like, okay, you know, let's go fly.
7:25
Speaker 2: And I was like, really today the first.
7:27
Speaker 1: Day and I was like okay, so that's amazing.
7:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it seemed really overwhelming at first, and he's like, okay,
7:32
Speaker 2: you know, I think that this is like Sunday. He's
7:34
Speaker 2: like next Friday, we'll have you solo. And at the
7:37
Speaker 2: time to ask you and he's completely overwhelming, but you know,
7:41
Speaker 2: you get there and it's I will say this about.
7:43
Speaker 1: So in a week. Yep, you soloed. You took off
7:47
Speaker 1: with no one else in the plane a week after starting.
7:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was about I think I was twelve thirteen
7:52
Speaker 2: hours in.
7:52
Speaker 1: That's bonkers.
7:53
Speaker 2: And they were like, okay, you're good to go.
7:56
Speaker 1: My mom did that. My mom solo an aircraft.
7:59
Speaker 2: Which is cool, the most unique experience because and I
8:03
Speaker 2: kind of had it with the ultra lights but you
8:04
Speaker 2: take off and you kind of do it out of
8:07
Speaker 2: you know, rope.
8:07
Speaker 1: Memory, muscle memory.
8:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then all of a sudden you make this
8:11
Speaker 2: realization as you get up in the air, like oh no,
8:13
Speaker 2: like it's me, I got to come around and land
8:15
Speaker 2: this thing, and so.
8:16
Speaker 1: I got to get back down on the ground.
8:18
Speaker 2: It's very it's a very real experience, right. It's one
8:22
Speaker 2: of those experiences like you know, being next to a
8:24
Speaker 2: bear with no fence in between.
8:26
Speaker 1: Right. Sure.
8:29
Speaker 2: And it's kind of a very well organized program just
8:32
Speaker 2: in general. The FAA has a program that all the
8:34
Speaker 2: schools kind of follows. There's a couple of variations, but
8:37
Speaker 2: for the most part it's super well run, which you know,
8:40
Speaker 2: say what you will about government programs. It's a really
8:43
Speaker 2: well run system.
8:45
Speaker 1: And that's why I mean flying is so safe in
8:47
Speaker 1: general in general.
8:49
Speaker 2: It Yeah, it actually is, and it's getting safer with
8:52
Speaker 2: new newer technology. Anyway. Yeah, they heavy take off in land.
8:56
Speaker 2: I think three or four times on your solo. Yeah, solo,
9:00
Speaker 2: you do it like three times like a party trick.
9:02
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
9:04
Speaker 2: Yep, you go do three like two touch and goes
9:06
Speaker 2: I think in a full stop and then you know,
9:08
Speaker 2: then you stop shaking, calm down. But you know, then
9:12
Speaker 2: then it was kind of like it was really fast.
9:14
Speaker 2: And then they're like, okay, you know two weeks from now,
9:16
Speaker 2: you're gonna go solo to Tucson and then over to
9:20
Speaker 2: Ryan and then back here to Phoenix. And you're like what,
9:23
Speaker 2: and you know, you go do it with your instructor.
9:25
Speaker 2: And then the day comes and you do it, and yeah,
9:28
Speaker 2: you're ready. I mean they have you. They know, the
9:30
Speaker 2: instructors know if you're ready or not.
9:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
9:32
Speaker 2: Sure, And so I spent I think it was fifty
9:35
Speaker 2: six hours and I got my license. And then it's
9:40
Speaker 2: really they say this, and it's it's it is the
9:43
Speaker 2: absolute truth. And it's a license to learn. So you
9:45
Speaker 2: get your pilot's license, you are not ready to go, Yeah,
9:49
Speaker 2: just rip around. I mean legally you can and you
9:51
Speaker 2: can take people with you, which is but you know,
9:54
Speaker 2: you know that you're not really ready. Like if you
9:56
Speaker 2: go fly the same plane on the same from the
9:58
Speaker 2: same airport, everything's comfortable and you could do it, but
10:01
Speaker 2: like you know, trying to fly around the country, it's
10:03
Speaker 2: there's there's more.
10:04
Speaker 1: So it's just a license to learn.
10:05
Speaker 2: So you know, I got that, and and then the
10:10
Speaker 2: tail draggers are a whole other thing.
10:11
Speaker 1: So my plane is Yes, you still couldn't even fly
10:14
Speaker 1: your own plane yet.
10:15
Speaker 2: No, No, I could fly a Cherokee.
10:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure problem but yeah, sure.
10:21
Speaker 2: So then I went home, I got my license. This
10:23
Speaker 2: is like, I don't know, December, I think of twenty one. Yeah,
10:30
Speaker 2: twenty one. I got my license, and then I came home,
10:33
Speaker 2: and then my buddy was like, okay, I'll teach you
10:35
Speaker 2: how to fly your plane. And so my plane's a
10:36
Speaker 2: tail dragger, which means the center gravity is behind the
10:40
Speaker 2: wheels and kind of like an old nine to eleven,
10:43
Speaker 2: and it has some unique handling characteristics.
10:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I didn't know that until you told me that. Yeah, there,
10:48
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. It like when you again, I
10:52
Speaker 1: have I know nothing. So when I look at it,
10:54
Speaker 1: it seems like it would be easier, but it's it's
10:57
Speaker 1: clearly not. No. Tail draggers are the harder to land.
11:01
Speaker 2: I mean, flying is about to say, but takeoff and
11:02
Speaker 2: landing is much more difficult. And in fact, you know,
11:07
Speaker 2: most planes were tail draggers up until the mid forties
11:11
Speaker 2: because it was less drag so all the fighter planes,
11:15
Speaker 2: even the bomber to be seventeens.
11:16
Speaker 1: And got that small little wheel in the back as.
11:18
Speaker 2: All right, And then they kind of started to figure
11:22
Speaker 2: out like, hey, if we move the center gravity in
11:24
Speaker 2: front of the main wheels and put a nose wheel
11:26
Speaker 2: on it, when we land, it goes straight down the runway.
11:29
Speaker 2: So you know, I think there were probably as many
11:32
Speaker 2: planes lost in ground looping accidents. Sure, you know, it's like,
11:38
Speaker 2: you know, like training accidents.
11:39
Speaker 1: Right.
11:40
Speaker 2: So they once they figured that out, they never built
11:42
Speaker 2: another tail dragger again, except for some specialty stuff. So
11:46
Speaker 2: aerobatic planes are still built that way and bush planes, right,
11:49
Speaker 2: and so my plane is basically a nineteen forties design.
11:53
Speaker 1: And why are bush planes still built as tail draggers.
11:56
Speaker 2: To keep the propeller up out of the grass. For
11:58
Speaker 2: one and two you can come in at a higher
12:01
Speaker 2: angle of attack, land a little slower, got it.
12:05
Speaker 1: And you see them stop on a dime. That's It's
12:07
Speaker 1: Some of those videos are incredible, yep.
12:09
Speaker 2: Some of the videos are some of that's a little
12:11
Speaker 2: bit of a party trick, you know, add made for Instagram. Yeah, nice,
12:16
Speaker 2: Almost all those videos are you know, a lot of
12:18
Speaker 2: them have a big headwind component, a lot of the
12:21
Speaker 2: ones you see like out on the gravel bars. Yeah,
12:24
Speaker 2: you know that it's nearly sea level. It's a nice
12:27
Speaker 2: consistent wind coming off the glacier there. Most of that's
12:29
Speaker 2: like on the neck river. And then you know, in
12:33
Speaker 2: those planes, some of them can fly at twenty five knots,
12:38
Speaker 2: you know, So if you have a twenty five not headwind, yeah,
12:40
Speaker 2: you're landing at zero. And so if you have a
12:43
Speaker 2: nice steady head wind and you're at sea level and
12:45
Speaker 2: you're in cool temps and you're by yourself and you're
12:48
Speaker 2: low on fuel, yeah you can you can do some
12:50
Speaker 2: pretty crazy stuff like that.
12:52
Speaker 1: I mean it. But it looks, it looks amazing, I mean,
12:54
Speaker 1: and it's this is part of the reason why I
12:57
Speaker 1: wanted to have this podcast is I grew up in
13:00
Speaker 1: My dad had a Cessna one seventy two and one two,
13:03
Speaker 1: and I remember, like some of my earliest memories were
13:06
Speaker 1: us flying to Catalina and and my dad pointing out
13:10
Speaker 1: whales to me from the plane and then we would
13:13
Speaker 1: land on this crazy runway. I mean, it seemed crazy
13:16
Speaker 1: to me as a kid. It may not be crazy,
13:18
Speaker 1: but I remember it seemed terrifying because like a cliff
13:21
Speaker 1: and it came in and it looked terrifying. And then
13:25
Speaker 1: we'd have buffalo burgers at the little restaurant and fly
13:28
Speaker 1: home so that like all, I mean, we'd fly to
13:32
Speaker 1: Utah for him to go deer hunting. We'd fly up
13:34
Speaker 1: to Mammoth to go fishing. Like we use those planes
13:38
Speaker 1: to fly all over the place. It was really neat.
13:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're time machines. Yeah, I mean, it's really amazing
13:42
Speaker 2: what you can do in a couple hours. Yeah, little
13:44
Speaker 2: tiny airplane.
13:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that I mean I just remember that.
13:48
Speaker 1: And then about the time that you were starting to
13:51
Speaker 1: look into the planes, I got the chance to go
13:54
Speaker 1: to tac Arrow here in Prescott. I was doing a
13:57
Speaker 1: project with Triple Opt Designs and they have these carbon
14:01
Speaker 1: cubs and we went and did this flight, and you know,
14:04
Speaker 1: we integrated in it and with the with the movie
14:06
Speaker 1: that we were filming and everything. And when I was
14:09
Speaker 1: up in that it's you said, it's a tandem, right,
14:11
Speaker 1: Is that how it's described.
14:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, So pilot in front, typically pilot in front, passinger
14:16
Speaker 2: in the back, so you can see out both sides.
14:18
Speaker 1: It was awesome. And of course the guy's like hey,
14:20
Speaker 1: because he knew I was somewhat interested, and he's like, hey,
14:22
Speaker 1: you want to fly it for a little bit. And
14:23
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, and it like, of course,
14:26
Speaker 1: all I'm doing is just not anything stupid. I'm basically
14:29
Speaker 1: holding the stick like like not like an idiot. And
14:32
Speaker 1: but that was amazing. That was amazing.
14:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, most people just don't know how
14:38
Speaker 2: fun an airplane can be for recreation, you know. So
14:41
Speaker 2: there's there's a travel component, there's a transportation component, and
14:44
Speaker 2: then there's like this recreational component. Yeah, and like my
14:47
Speaker 2: plane is a recreational plane. Same with those, right, the
14:50
Speaker 2: carbon cubs are you know, it's pure recreation typically.
14:55
Speaker 1: Well, and so how are some of the ways that
14:59
Speaker 1: you use the plane? And then I'd like to circle
15:01
Speaker 1: back to like what are the steps that people should
15:03
Speaker 1: think about about how to get into bush flying? But
15:06
Speaker 1: what are some of the ways that you use your bushplane? Yeah?
15:10
Speaker 2: So, I mean, man, there's just so many things, and
15:15
Speaker 2: we're so lucky here in the United States because we
15:17
Speaker 2: have so much freedom. Like literally I can just wake
15:19
Speaker 2: up and if the weather looks good, I can go
15:20
Speaker 2: fly and I can go find you know. I sometimes
15:25
Speaker 2: you're just flying out to get breakfast. Yep, you know,
15:27
Speaker 2: just to fly, go look at some animals. Sometimes you'll
15:30
Speaker 2: fly into a remote airstrip in Idaho or Montana. Some
15:34
Speaker 2: of those remote lodges will serve you breakfast. You know,
15:37
Speaker 2: you go fishing in the morning. A lot of times
15:39
Speaker 2: I'll go into like the Celway River, which is very
15:41
Speaker 2: difficult to get into any other way. I'll just rip
15:45
Speaker 2: in there, have some coffee, and fly home and start
15:48
Speaker 2: getting on my work meetings. If my meetings don't start
15:50
Speaker 2: till you maybe ten nine am. Yeah, I'll just go
15:53
Speaker 2: for an early flight and just you know, just enjoy it.
15:57
Speaker 2: It's really good for like mental clarity. Obviously, you're flying,
16:01
Speaker 2: so you're not focusing on work, you know, you're kind
16:04
Speaker 2: of focusing on flying, on the weather preparations, winds, you know,
16:10
Speaker 2: the mountain flying can be extremely difficult. You really have
16:13
Speaker 2: to know what's going on with the weather, and it's
16:16
Speaker 2: just mentally it's really challenging.
16:17
Speaker 1: Are there tools in the aircraft that help keep you
16:21
Speaker 1: up to date on what the weather is doing?
16:25
Speaker 2: Yes, and no, you know radar, yes, Winds not so much.
16:29
Speaker 2: I mean you'll know the winds at the airport.
16:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the roller walls down the mountain. You can't
16:33
Speaker 1: really predict those.
16:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, well you can because you can feel if
16:37
Speaker 2: the airplane's getting pushed and you're on the backside of
16:40
Speaker 2: the mountain, like that's gonna be a problem. Yeah, you know,
16:43
Speaker 2: switch around and get on the front side of the
16:44
Speaker 2: mountain or you know, we kind of have a rule
16:47
Speaker 2: like in the Montana Idaho area. You know the rule
16:49
Speaker 2: is unspoken rules, kind of like be home by eleven.
16:53
Speaker 2: That's before all the convective stuff starts operating, and you know,
16:56
Speaker 2: before the mountain stuff.
16:58
Speaker 1: Fly cool air in the morning. That's right.
17:02
Speaker 2: Interesting, Yeah, and Idaho Montana can be some of the
17:05
Speaker 2: most dangerous line because you have this unique combination that
17:09
Speaker 2: like you know, Alaska has its own things. But Alaska
17:12
Speaker 2: you're typically cool, You're typically low elevation. You typically have sandbars,
17:17
Speaker 2: gravel bars, tundra, you know, not treed areas. So Idaho
17:22
Speaker 2: is very very steep, very rocky. There's no place to land.
17:26
Speaker 1: I see. So if you have an engine out situation,
17:29
Speaker 1: like finding a place to land could be a challenge.
17:31
Speaker 2: Its going to be a challenge. High elevation, so you know,
17:36
Speaker 2: high air densities, high temperatures. You can be one hundred
17:39
Speaker 2: degrees in the afternoons pretty consistently, so it can be
17:44
Speaker 2: extremely challenging. And you know, there's no radar coverage, so
17:47
Speaker 2: you have to kind of have your own network of
17:49
Speaker 2: friends where you're going, because there's no requirement. There's no
17:52
Speaker 2: like people ask me all the time, do you have
17:54
Speaker 2: a file flight plan or do this or that, and
17:56
Speaker 2: there's under visual flight rules, there's really no requirements. You
17:59
Speaker 2: don't have tell anybody where you're going. You don't have
18:01
Speaker 2: to do anything.
18:03
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
18:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's practically, I mean, there's rules, and so most
18:06
Speaker 2: of flight school, I mean you have the component of
18:09
Speaker 2: learning how to fly the plane, but most of flight
18:11
Speaker 2: school is actually like learning this whole system of rules
18:14
Speaker 2: and airspace and when you can do something, when you
18:16
Speaker 2: can't make something.
18:17
Speaker 1: Yes, you don't run into another aircraft probably.
18:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's rules for that. And that's that's one
18:23
Speaker 2: thing where modern technology has really helped. There are now
18:26
Speaker 2: a system where you can, for the most part, you
18:29
Speaker 2: can see a lot of the planes on your phone
18:31
Speaker 2: and see where you know their elevations, where they're at,
18:34
Speaker 2: And that's that's one thing that's really helped safety wise.
18:37
Speaker 1: Does it have any use predictive components, like because big
18:40
Speaker 1: boats we use that too out in the ocean where
18:43
Speaker 1: you can see like you're not like when you're in
18:45
Speaker 1: a sailboat and you're gonna get hit by this giant
18:47
Speaker 1: container ship. But does it give you like that you're
18:50
Speaker 1: on a bearing that will result in the potential of
18:54
Speaker 1: a crash. Does it give you a little bit of
18:55
Speaker 1: a warning?
18:56
Speaker 2: I mean, it shows you and it shows them on
18:58
Speaker 2: a map, and you're kind of it'll show their speed
19:01
Speaker 2: and their altitude, got it.
19:02
Speaker 1: But it doesn't tell you like at their speed, altitude
19:05
Speaker 1: and bearing that. No.
19:06
Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, if I see a plane
19:07
Speaker 2: that's thirty thousand feet over me, obviously, yeah, you're not
19:10
Speaker 2: worried about it. If I see a playing this six
19:12
Speaker 2: hundred feet over me, Okay, that you know. Now I
19:15
Speaker 2: have to figure that out.
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20:05
Speaker 2: And a lot of times, you know, the pilots are
20:08
Speaker 2: communicating just by themselves. If you have an uncontrolled airfield,
20:13
Speaker 2: there's kind of the system that you you know, you'll
20:15
Speaker 2: announce your position ten miles out. If somebody else is
20:17
Speaker 2: in the area, they'll they'll call back and you can
20:19
Speaker 2: kind of.
20:19
Speaker 1: Work it out. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
20:22
Speaker 2: Sometimes I get sectic, you know, I was in like
20:24
Speaker 2: Cavasty the other day. There's probably ten students doing their solos,
20:27
Speaker 2: all coming in all different directions. There are a couple
20:30
Speaker 2: of jets mixed in there. Oh no, and in that
20:33
Speaker 2: case there's no no controller coming in here to Prescott.
20:36
Speaker 2: It's super busy because you have every riddle, but it's
20:38
Speaker 2: typically pretty easy because you have a controller kind of orchestrating.
20:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
20:43
Speaker 2: But then there's also the you know a lot of
20:46
Speaker 2: times getting back to how I use my plane this
20:48
Speaker 2: time of year. I'll bring it from Idaho down here
20:50
Speaker 2: to Arizona. I like to hang out in the Mahave.
20:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, better weather. It's a lot better weather.
20:56
Speaker 2: This time of year. And you know down here it's
20:58
Speaker 2: great sea level. You can fly super slow, the air's thick,
21:03
Speaker 2: you know, cool morning with low fuel. I mean you
21:05
Speaker 2: can land in you know, eighty feet or less. That's
21:10
Speaker 2: with no wind, and you can you just go out
21:12
Speaker 2: to you know, these cool places. I find really cool places.
21:15
Speaker 1: A lot of times.
21:16
Speaker 2: I'll watch YouTube videos about some something historical, you know,
21:19
Speaker 2: some of all the stuff General Patent did out.
21:21
Speaker 1: In the Mahaas. There's a ton of that.
21:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll go out to those military bases and
21:25
Speaker 2: I'll land and hike around look at stuff, you know,
21:28
Speaker 2: some of the Entaglio's or some of the other ruins.
21:31
Speaker 2: I'll figure out a place I can look at it quick,
21:34
Speaker 2: go over to like Google or figure out where it is,
21:37
Speaker 2: kind of look around if it's BLM land, look at
21:39
Speaker 2: who owns the land, and if it's BLM and you're
21:41
Speaker 2: welcome to land there. So I'll just see if there's
21:44
Speaker 2: a road or something, and I'll just you know, there's
21:46
Speaker 2: never anybody around, you know, I'll go check out old mines.
21:49
Speaker 1: So cool.
21:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's super fun and it's just yeah, it's neat
21:54
Speaker 2: because there's nobody else around.
21:56
Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of like it's well, it's it is
21:58
Speaker 1: the true form of over or landing, that's right. So
22:02
Speaker 1: it it incorporates a lot of the things that we
22:04
Speaker 1: love about vehicle based travel, but it adds this degree
22:08
Speaker 1: of complexity, and there's also some scarcity to it because
22:11
Speaker 1: you're having these experiences at these remote runways where it's
22:15
Speaker 1: maybe just you and a couple buddies with their planes
22:17
Speaker 1: and that's it. There's nobody else around, and probably the
22:20
Speaker 1: animal there's a lot more animals. Like you said, the
22:23
Speaker 1: fishing's better, and it's a lot more challenging. I mean,
22:26
Speaker 1: you're doing navigating like we do in a vehicle. You know,
22:29
Speaker 1: you're even choosing the size of tire, like you have
22:31
Speaker 1: bigger tires on your plane now yep, yeah, did you
22:34
Speaker 1: see those are the most expensive tires you ever bought
22:36
Speaker 1: or something like that.
22:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're let me think about it, why, like twenty
22:39
Speaker 2: six hundred dollars a time luckily.
22:42
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, And then how does that work with the
22:45
Speaker 1: little tire on the back, Like, how does like isn't
22:47
Speaker 1: that a problem? Like you have a bigger tire in
22:49
Speaker 1: the front, and then there's this it looks like a
22:51
Speaker 1: doughnut in the back.
22:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a little bit bigger one just for
22:55
Speaker 2: high flotation because I do land in the sand.
22:57
Speaker 1: And the sand, sure, that's what I would be worried about.
22:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, Worth, you know, I know where you land on
23:01
Speaker 2: just gravel rocks. I normally run a different tire, but
23:06
Speaker 2: in the sand you definitely need a big high flotation
23:08
Speaker 2: tail tire too. And they're kind of interesting. You've seen them.
23:12
Speaker 2: They have no traction and a lot of people are
23:14
Speaker 2: like why are they You know, it doesn't that many traction.
23:16
Speaker 2: That's because you don't want you don't want them grabbing
23:19
Speaker 2: something and throwing a rock up. Because these are fabric
23:22
Speaker 2: airplanes in the right part, right, they're steel tube and
23:25
Speaker 2: fabric airplanes.
23:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're carbon cub that I was in. Like you're
23:29
Speaker 1: when you're in it and you're looking around, you're like,
23:31
Speaker 1: you're thick. I mean they're very they're very cool, but
23:34
Speaker 1: it's this thin sheet of carbon fiber is all it is.
23:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and there's there's steel tube also, so the
23:41
Speaker 2: main structures steel tubeing, aluminum structure, wing, and then everything
23:45
Speaker 2: inside is kind of carbon fiber trim mostly and then yeah,
23:51
Speaker 2: they're super light. So my plane's similar design, but it's
23:55
Speaker 2: called the Husky. It's built by a small company called
23:57
Speaker 2: Avat in aft in Wyoming. They're all handbuilt the same people.
24:01
Speaker 2: Probably they still make forever.
24:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep.
24:05
Speaker 2: The Husky was kind of a huskier version of a Supercub. Okay,
24:09
Speaker 2: and the carbon Cub is kind of like a lighter,
24:11
Speaker 2: high performance version of a Supercub, So it mine's more
24:16
Speaker 2: of I would call it like the equivalent of like
24:18
Speaker 2: a five hundred XC. Sure, the carbon Cub is more
24:22
Speaker 2: like a three hundred, you know, more of a like
24:24
Speaker 2: true dirt bike doesn't go as fast, you know. The
24:27
Speaker 2: Husky is a good traveling machine, so you're always kind
24:31
Speaker 2: of balancing.
24:32
Speaker 1: You know.
24:32
Speaker 2: You could definitely have a quiver of airplanes if you
24:34
Speaker 2: could afford it.
24:36
Speaker 1: But it's just like motorcycles. The number of motorcycles you
24:38
Speaker 1: should own is the current number plus one more. Yeah,
24:42
Speaker 1: that's so true. That's so true. So the training that
24:46
Speaker 1: you got, like just to get your private pilot's license.
24:50
Speaker 1: We were talking about that earlier. Today you're looking at
24:52
Speaker 1: like ten to fifteen grand in that range to make
24:56
Speaker 1: that happen. That's right.
24:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I spent about twelve thous and so
25:00
Speaker 2: I would say twelve to fifteen if you're running an
25:02
Speaker 2: airplane and going to good school. And the trick to
25:05
Speaker 2: the to doing it, I think is just setting aside
25:11
Speaker 2: the time and doing it. So I was saying I
25:14
Speaker 2: thought I'd be done with a big project. I ended
25:15
Speaker 2: up having to work full time, get up super early,
25:19
Speaker 2: like five am.
25:20
Speaker 1: Work.
25:22
Speaker 2: Luckily I kind of work East Coast hours, so it
25:24
Speaker 2: worked out. Worked till about two or at leasta. Maybe
25:27
Speaker 2: one go, grab a quick launch, get to the airport,
25:30
Speaker 2: fly all day, and then study at night. And the
25:32
Speaker 2: studying is pretty good. There's a free book you can download.
25:35
Speaker 2: I think it's called The IF, A Guide to Aeronautical Knowledge.
25:39
Speaker 2: If you read that book, you're pretty much got the knowledge.
25:42
Speaker 2: It's pretty it's an amazing book, and it's pretty easy
25:45
Speaker 2: to read. Makes a lot of sense for I think
25:48
Speaker 2: most of the listeners. Would you know it?
25:51
Speaker 1: Get it? Yeah?
25:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty it's an easy read and it's pretty fun.
25:57
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I ended up having to work full time.
25:59
Speaker 2: But but I think the t is I think I've
26:01
Speaker 2: heard that it's like an eighty percent attrition rate. So
26:03
Speaker 2: people sign up, they do a few lessons, and either
26:07
Speaker 2: they quit or they do a few lessons and then
26:10
Speaker 2: they don't come back for two weeks and then they
26:11
Speaker 2: do another lesson, but they spend half that lesson trying
26:13
Speaker 2: to learn where they were. So I would really recommend
26:16
Speaker 2: just like dedicating to flying once a day and getting
26:20
Speaker 2: the license, just getting it out of the way, because
26:22
Speaker 2: once you get it out of the way, now you
26:23
Speaker 2: can really learn and really have fun. So yeah, then
26:27
Speaker 2: I got together with a friend of mine who's an instructor,
26:30
Speaker 2: and I hired him to teach me how to fly
26:32
Speaker 2: a tail dragger.
26:33
Speaker 1: And about how much time did that take? Here, you think?
26:35
Speaker 2: So I actually have more time with him learning to
26:37
Speaker 2: fly the tail dragger and learning how to land it
26:40
Speaker 2: and all the intricacies. And there is a tail drager endorsement,
26:44
Speaker 2: so at some point he has a sign off. I
26:46
Speaker 2: think technically he's signed off in like ten hours. But
26:50
Speaker 2: I kept going with him for as much as I
26:52
Speaker 2: could because it's, you know, it's one of those things.
26:55
Speaker 2: If the center gravity gets a little sideways, it can
26:58
Speaker 2: come around on you and spin out basically kind of
27:01
Speaker 2: like an old portion nine to eleven, right, like, once
27:04
Speaker 2: it goes, it goes, and there's nothing you can do
27:06
Speaker 2: about it. Right, So it's really critical.
27:08
Speaker 1: Have you had that happen to you know? But I
27:10
Speaker 1: hear it it is pretty common.
27:12
Speaker 2: There's a saying it's like it's not if it's when
27:14
Speaker 2: with that, but you know the.
27:17
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah.
27:18
Speaker 2: Imagine trying to learn and ride a motorcycle, never being
27:21
Speaker 2: able to wreck, yeah, and then learning, right, So it's
27:23
Speaker 2: pretty conservative process.
27:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, because were you using your plane to learn? Yep?
27:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you if you ground loop, I mean
27:31
Speaker 2: you know, it's gonna be a wing of prop, could
27:33
Speaker 2: be an enje I mean, I could be one hundred
27:34
Speaker 2: thousand dollars mistake.
27:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:36
Speaker 2: Sure, So it's one of those things you really have
27:38
Speaker 2: to be careful.
27:38
Speaker 1: Is there insurance for that for your plane? Yeah?
27:40
Speaker 2: Your planes insured? Yep, But I mean you know you
27:43
Speaker 2: can't do that too many times?
27:44
Speaker 1: No? No, yeah, no, it's like anything else. Yeah.
27:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've I've avoided that through proper training, but
27:51
Speaker 2: then I would I was also very conservative. Even starting out,
27:53
Speaker 2: I would watch the weather like a hawk, and I
27:57
Speaker 2: mean it's a flag. Was even so much as moving,
27:59
Speaker 2: I probably I would not fly, you know, while I
28:01
Speaker 2: was like really learning how to solo that plan for
28:04
Speaker 2: a while and I just kind of took it real
28:06
Speaker 2: easy for a long time. But the trick to flying
28:09
Speaker 2: tail draggers. It's definitely a perishable skill. So if you
28:13
Speaker 2: don't fly for a few weeks, you do get rusty.
28:16
Speaker 2: And the trick is to just get as many hours
28:18
Speaker 2: as fast as you can. So my couple of my
28:20
Speaker 2: buddies like, get two hundred and fifty three hundred hours
28:23
Speaker 2: and you'll feel pretty good. And that was spot on.
28:26
Speaker 2: So I got about two hundred and fifty hours my
28:28
Speaker 2: first year.
28:30
Speaker 1: I also wanted to take a brief moment to thank
28:33
Speaker 1: all of you for listening to the Overalan Journal podcast.
28:36
Speaker 1: By listening to this podcast and subscribing to the Overland
28:39
Speaker 1: Journal magazine, you're supporting our employee own and veteran owned business.
28:45
Speaker 1: Impartial reviews and in depth content like this would not
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Speaker 1: I think you'd really love the print magazine as well.
28:56
Speaker 1: And one of that subscription price goes back into creating
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Speaker 1: the content like you're listening to right now. And as
29:04
Speaker 1: a special thank you for your loyalty, we're giving twenty
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29:20
Speaker 1: Overland podcast at checkout again, that's Code Overland podcast at checkout,
29:26
Speaker 1: and I'll give you twenty percent off. I sincerely appreciate.
29:29
Speaker 2: Your support, which is flying a lot. I mean, yeah,
29:33
Speaker 2: for sure, there's a lot of flying. And then you
29:36
Speaker 2: know every year since I do about the same two
29:38
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty or so, and yeah, just trying to
29:41
Speaker 2: fly all over. So I've flown to some overland expos
29:45
Speaker 2: I fly. I've flown basically you know, Adam, Montana. I've
29:49
Speaker 2: flown as far east as South Dakota, out to Seattle,
29:54
Speaker 2: down the San Diego over to Tucson. I guess that
29:58
Speaker 2: shin has you know, tangle the whole West that basically
30:01
Speaker 2: have covered on that little plane. And yeah, it's just
30:05
Speaker 2: super fun.
30:06
Speaker 1: When I when I first started looking into it, after
30:08
Speaker 1: I was went to that tac Arrow place. It's and
30:12
Speaker 1: This is again my ignorance, but there is a huge
30:15
Speaker 1: range of price for planes that look very similar. Thatsru
30:19
Speaker 1: So like I saw some planes that were tandem that
30:23
Speaker 1: were forty thousand dollars and I saw planes that were
30:27
Speaker 1: tandem that were four hundred thousand dollars. So like if someone,
30:32
Speaker 1: like for me, if someone said, hey, what what is
30:35
Speaker 1: what's a new car I should buy? And I'd probably
30:36
Speaker 1: say I'll go buy a land cruiser. You know, it's like,
30:39
Speaker 1: is there is there the land cruiser of these planes
30:43
Speaker 1: that like where it's it's not cheap, but it's also
30:46
Speaker 1: like people can afford a land cruiser if it's important
30:48
Speaker 1: to them.
30:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, There's there's the Honda Cord, there's the F
30:52
Speaker 2: one fifty, there's all the equivalents. One of the big
30:55
Speaker 2: things that separates price is experimental versus certified air plane. Okay,
31:00
Speaker 2: and it used to be experimental is more like home
31:02
Speaker 2: built a little you know, maybe sketchier, and certified was
31:07
Speaker 2: like fully engineered, fully vetted, like you know, done deal. Today,
31:12
Speaker 2: experimentals have really come a long way, so they're being
31:15
Speaker 2: built by real aircraft companies. A lot of times you'll
31:17
Speaker 2: go in you'll do a builder's assists, so technically you're
31:20
Speaker 2: building it fifty one percent, and a lot of the
31:23
Speaker 2: carbon cubs are actually like that, but they're they're real airplanes,
31:25
Speaker 2: designed by a real aeronautical company, and they're perfectly safe,
31:29
Speaker 2: and they can cut the cost dramatically.
31:31
Speaker 1: Okay, is yours an experimental.
31:34
Speaker 2: Mind certified certified, which has some advantages, but the you know,
31:41
Speaker 2: I would think real hard about going experimental. Now, the avionics,
31:44
Speaker 2: you can literally buy the exact same avionics for experimental
31:47
Speaker 2: and they will be I mean they can be a
31:50
Speaker 2: third the cost or less a quarter of the cost
31:52
Speaker 2: as a certified the same exact thing, but comes with
31:55
Speaker 2: a bunch of paperwork.
31:56
Speaker 1: Certified.
31:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, so you can really save a lot on
32:01
Speaker 2: you know, you can do your own maintenance. It's just
32:04
Speaker 2: it can be a huge advantage.
32:06
Speaker 1: Can you still can you still fly in weather with
32:10
Speaker 1: can you get VFR? I mean not VFR? Can you
32:13
Speaker 1: get IFR IFR.
32:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, the sky's kind of the limit, so to speak.
32:18
Speaker 2: You know, experimental can do almost everything you can't do
32:21
Speaker 2: like commercial, you can't you know, fly for hire, but
32:25
Speaker 2: you know, for recreational airplane, it's pretty cool deal that
32:28
Speaker 2: we have here in the United States that you can
32:30
Speaker 2: you can do that. So, yeah, you're going to find
32:32
Speaker 2: some older, experimental you know who knows who built it
32:35
Speaker 2: kind of thing. Yeah, they'll be in the twenty thousand
32:38
Speaker 2: and thirty forty thousand dollars range, and it kind of
32:40
Speaker 2: goes up from there. I mean, I think a brand
32:42
Speaker 2: new Husky is closer to half a million bucks. Yeah,
32:46
Speaker 2: it's just like my mind's of two thousand and two.
32:49
Speaker 2: But if you've got to twenty twenty four, Yeah, they've
32:51
Speaker 2: almost become fashion accessories.
32:53
Speaker 1: Unfortunately. Sure they've become popular for sure.
32:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like you know, a land Rover or
32:58
Speaker 2: a Portion nine to eleven. You've got these guys who
33:01
Speaker 2: are successful, retired, whatever it might be, and then they're like,
33:04
Speaker 2: I'm buying that, you know, that's what I want, and
33:06
Speaker 2: so they've kind of come.
33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:08
Speaker 2: So unfortunately the price is gone up, as as I
33:13
Speaker 2: guess with most things.
33:14
Speaker 1: But and is it the avionics that makes a big
33:18
Speaker 1: difference in the price jump or is it the the
33:20
Speaker 1: engine the performance of the engine.
33:22
Speaker 2: It can be the hours on the engine. So you know,
33:25
Speaker 2: the airplanes unlike cars have a well cars do have it,
33:30
Speaker 2: just nobody knows about it, but like a TBO time
33:32
Speaker 2: before overhaul. So let's say my plane, the engine's good
33:35
Speaker 2: for two thousand hours. Technically you legally you can go longer,
33:38
Speaker 2: but they recommend two thousand hours. Then you overhaul it.
33:41
Speaker 2: That could be thirty forty fifty thousand dollars. Sure, And
33:45
Speaker 2: really it's just a glorified kind of giant Volkswagen engine, right,
33:49
Speaker 2: there's not much to it. But because it's certified and
33:51
Speaker 2: it's aviation, it can be very expensive. So you kind
33:54
Speaker 2: of have to keep that in mind as you're flying.
33:56
Speaker 2: And when you're buying a plane, if it has high
33:59
Speaker 2: hour and you know the motor needs to be rebuilt,
34:01
Speaker 2: that takes a lot of value away because you could
34:04
Speaker 2: have a big bill.
34:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so even at your flight, you know,
34:08
Speaker 1: pacing your like every eight years, you're rebuilding that motor.
34:12
Speaker 2: And I fly more than most people. I mean, if
34:14
Speaker 2: most people fly fifty years fifty hours a year, it's yeah,
34:17
Speaker 2: it's probably typical.
34:18
Speaker 1: One hundred is a lot.
34:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fly a lot.
34:23
Speaker 1: So when you when you go to these remote airfields
34:27
Speaker 1: or you're going to go you know, land in a
34:29
Speaker 1: wash somewhere, like do you will you camp, you'll bring
34:31
Speaker 1: your camping gear and yeah, sure, absolutely, Yeah, that'd be amazing.
34:35
Speaker 1: And it's kind of cool too.
34:36
Speaker 2: Not only do I take my camping gear, and I
34:39
Speaker 2: can normally bring a friend and you know, camping gear.
34:43
Speaker 2: A lot of times I'll see some see a place
34:46
Speaker 2: and I can kind of market on my phone and
34:48
Speaker 2: then go Google Earth to figure out how to get there,
34:50
Speaker 2: you know, via truck or motorcycle. Yeah, it looks like
34:52
Speaker 2: a good spot and check it out, you know, from
34:55
Speaker 2: the ground if I can't figure out how to land
34:56
Speaker 2: right there, and.
34:57
Speaker 1: Then have your buddy bring the truck house in for you.
35:00
Speaker 2: Well, last year I did meet Clay. Yeah, he and
35:04
Speaker 2: Boddy were out in the Mahave. That looked great and
35:06
Speaker 2: I kind of figured out where they were and I
35:08
Speaker 2: flew out there and found the spot to meet him.
35:10
Speaker 2: And then they move, you know, they moved their truck
35:12
Speaker 2: just a couple little ridges over, and yeah, they're we
35:15
Speaker 2: camped out for them.
35:17
Speaker 1: That's awesome, you know, and it and it it looks
35:20
Speaker 1: like to me that it just opens up a whole
35:23
Speaker 1: nother world because at least the current regulations are like like,
35:28
Speaker 1: you know, when we go off roading, we're staying on
35:31
Speaker 1: a trail. We have to be on a designated route.
35:33
Speaker 1: But with this airplane, you can just go just about anywhere. Interesting.
35:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's fast, Like you know, I'm here in Prescott.
35:40
Speaker 2: If I go to Lake Havasu, basically I'll take off here,
35:42
Speaker 2: we're at five thousand feet, I'll climb up to maybe
35:45
Speaker 2: six thousand. I'll get right over this mountain right here,
35:48
Speaker 2: and literally I'll be gliding three ridges over and I'll
35:52
Speaker 2: be in Lake Havasu.
35:53
Speaker 1: You know, which is I don't know, five thirty flight
35:56
Speaker 1: forty minute flight and it's what a three and a
35:58
Speaker 1: half for sure? For sure?
36:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I can see it like I can see
36:02
Speaker 2: it from here. I mean it's pretty, it's it's really interesting.
36:05
Speaker 2: It really does strink the world. And that's like, you know,
36:10
Speaker 2: not technically, but it's kind of like the world's slowest airplane. Yeah,
36:12
Speaker 2: and it's still really fast to get around plane.
36:15
Speaker 1: It's still a faster car.
36:17
Speaker 2: It's normally like two to three times out in the West,
36:20
Speaker 2: it's almost three times as fast as the car.
36:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's hard to find a straight road that
36:25
Speaker 1: just goes right to one place.
36:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, And even my slow airplane, it's still cruising in
36:28
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five miles an hour, you know, almost,
36:32
Speaker 2: you know, and then sometimes you catch tailwinds, some nimes not,
36:34
Speaker 2: but typically you know, at least one hundred and twenty five.
36:37
Speaker 1: So what what what would you your what would be
36:41
Speaker 1: your bucket list for things that you want to do
36:43
Speaker 1: with your plane? You want to fly it in? Like
36:44
Speaker 1: have you flown to Mexico yet?
36:46
Speaker 2: I mean like, that's yeah, Mexico Alaska. Mexico is a
36:51
Speaker 2: super easy one. I've heard that and so I haven't
36:54
Speaker 2: done it yet, but I'm looking at you know, it's
36:57
Speaker 2: one of those things you really want to be confident
36:59
Speaker 2: in the flying. So now I've gotten there. Yeah, now
37:02
Speaker 2: it's now it's like yeah, looking for those additional challenges.
37:05
Speaker 2: But I'll be honest, there's so much flying just in
37:08
Speaker 2: the Mahave that it's it's amazing because from a car
37:11
Speaker 2: it's kind of I'll be honest, it's beautiful, but it's
37:13
Speaker 2: kind of boring or it's like really it takes a
37:16
Speaker 2: lot of effort to get places whereas you know, I
37:19
Speaker 2: can I can fly across the Mahave and typically low
37:23
Speaker 2: and slow, and I can see all kinds of stuff.
37:26
Speaker 1: Have you ever flown like? This is one thing that
37:28
Speaker 1: I just think I think about that would be beautiful
37:30
Speaker 1: would be to like go over Lake Powell and just like,
37:33
Speaker 1: oh yeah, just to fly along what is the Colorado
37:38
Speaker 1: River underneath you as a lake?
37:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think a lot of that area
37:42
Speaker 2: is a maybe some sort of bird sanctuary. I can't
37:45
Speaker 2: remember it on the map. So there are certain areas
37:48
Speaker 2: where like I think that is one where they request
37:50
Speaker 2: that you be above two thousand feet.
37:52
Speaker 1: Above the ground. Got it.
37:54
Speaker 2: Typically the rules are five hundred feet from any person, structure,
37:59
Speaker 2: or vessel. Now that can change over open water or
38:03
Speaker 2: over extremely remote areas like the Mahave.
38:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:06
Speaker 2: Sure, So it's not uncommon that I'll be depending if
38:10
Speaker 2: it's safe, if you have a safe spot to put
38:12
Speaker 2: it down, you can you legally can go lower. Helicopters
38:16
Speaker 2: have different set of rules and seaplanes have a different
38:18
Speaker 2: set of rules also, But for my plane, normally five
38:23
Speaker 2: hundred feet is kind of where I like to fly.
38:26
Speaker 2: It's you know, if I want to jump over a mountain,
38:27
Speaker 2: I can just climb up ten thousand feet jump over
38:30
Speaker 2: a mountain.
38:30
Speaker 1: And is that because you have enough power like your engine.
38:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a pretty high performance Yea, I know that.
38:35
Speaker 1: That's I hear pilots. I mean again, I don't know anything,
38:38
Speaker 1: but you hear pilots talking about that, like if they're
38:40
Speaker 1: in a cessina one O, they're like really like if
38:43
Speaker 1: it's too hot in the afternoon, it's like you've got
38:45
Speaker 1: to get this thing down on the ground. Yeah.
38:47
Speaker 2: Heat and altitude really do play a huge factor in performance.
38:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and is yours normally aspirated engine? That's right? Yeah?
38:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, more so three percent per thousand feet Yeah, sure,
38:59
Speaker 2: so as you're going to ten thousand meet your thirty
39:01
Speaker 2: percent down on horsepower.
39:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, which you know you feel it. Yeah, that makes sense.
39:07
Speaker 1: So yeah, you have to be careful where should what
39:10
Speaker 1: are some cool resources for Like is there a is
39:13
Speaker 1: there a website that you love to go to and
39:15
Speaker 1: just or like where do you find cool used bush planes?
39:19
Speaker 1: Like is there a forum that's kind of there's a few, Yeah,
39:22
Speaker 1: there's that you like Facebook group or something? Really do that? Yeah?
39:26
Speaker 1: Yeah I don't really do.
39:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I my I limit myself to Instagram. I don't
39:32
Speaker 2: do Facebook. I don't do forums anymore. I pretty much
39:36
Speaker 2: just kind of have my buddies and then YouTube.
39:39
Speaker 1: So you have a close group of friends that are
39:41
Speaker 1: accomplished pilots and they helped you. Yeah, I do.
39:43
Speaker 2: And that's kind of critical and aviation. That's the one
39:45
Speaker 2: that's the best thing about aviation. It's it's a small world.
39:49
Speaker 2: It's amid pretty small group of people who have taken
39:51
Speaker 2: off an airplane landed it by themselves. Smaller yet that
39:54
Speaker 2: actually have the pilot's license. Yeah, and that actually fly.
39:59
Speaker 2: So it's a pretty small group, but they're very, very supportive.
40:02
Speaker 2: There's very little ego in aviation for the most part,
40:06
Speaker 2: and everybody's yeah, but most is really supportive. Yeah, most
40:12
Speaker 2: most people are really supportive. It's not a problem. If
40:14
Speaker 2: you hang out around an airport long enough, you will
40:16
Speaker 2: find some sort of mentorship. And it's it's a it's
40:22
Speaker 2: just a really good community. Yeah, it's it really helps.
40:28
Speaker 1: I mean, it's super exciting and and and you've made
40:31
Speaker 1: me think like maybe I should at least solo because again,
40:33
Speaker 1: my my mom did that because my you know, we
40:35
Speaker 1: would fly as a family. My dad was the pilot
40:38
Speaker 1: and my mom just said, I need to be able
40:40
Speaker 1: to land this plane if something happens to him, and
40:43
Speaker 1: she did. She's stuck to it, and and my dad
40:47
Speaker 1: talks about it, He's like it was the most terrifying
40:49
Speaker 1: moment of his life was watching his wife like take off,
40:52
Speaker 1: like the mother of his children, take off all alone
40:55
Speaker 1: in an airplane.
40:57
Speaker 2: And that, I mean, that's kind of the beauty of
40:58
Speaker 2: aviation too, is like anybody can do it if you
41:01
Speaker 2: put your mind to it. There's a lot of there
41:04
Speaker 2: are a lot of grants or scholarships available to I
41:08
Speaker 2: didn't know that, like when I was doing it or
41:11
Speaker 2: when I was younger, I didn't know that, right, So
41:13
Speaker 2: if I have, I have very few regrets in life.
41:16
Speaker 2: One of them is waiting so long to do yeah,
41:19
Speaker 2: because as you get older, obviously it's harder to learn.
41:21
Speaker 2: Your brain doesn't absorb as much as quickly. The nice
41:24
Speaker 2: thing about a pilot's license is even if you can't
41:27
Speaker 2: afford to fly because you don't have a plane and
41:30
Speaker 2: you can only rent so often, the pilot's license never
41:33
Speaker 2: really expires. So once you have it, you have it.
41:36
Speaker 2: There's some currency requirements, but it's for the most part,
41:38
Speaker 2: you know, if you think about it, it never is
41:40
Speaker 2: like gone.
41:41
Speaker 1: And there's some health requirements too, right, Yeah.
41:43
Speaker 2: There are, and actually lately, there's some new rules. You
41:47
Speaker 2: can fly pretty much with the driver's license now with
41:51
Speaker 2: certain limitations. What as far as a health, Yeah, as
41:54
Speaker 2: far as health, there's you can fly under basic MID
41:58
Speaker 2: and there's some new rules coming that even expand those limitations.
42:01
Speaker 2: I think it's like under five passengers, under two hundred knots.
42:05
Speaker 2: I mean it's pretty pretty lenient really, but a lot
42:08
Speaker 2: of people will fly under basic MED, which is just
42:10
Speaker 2: a driver's license.
42:12
Speaker 1: Amazing. Well, this was fun to talk about. I mean
42:15
Speaker 1: it's just like a primer to get people thinking about
42:17
Speaker 1: bush planes because I think they're I think they're amazing,
42:21
Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of people who love
42:23
Speaker 1: the challenge of overlanding, the challenge of travel by vehicle
42:27
Speaker 1: would love it. Yeah, to do it by plane.
42:29
Speaker 2: It's the same mindset, same thing. It just kind of
42:32
Speaker 2: amps it up a little bit. But it is super exciting,
42:35
Speaker 2: super fun. It's cool to see stuff from the air
42:38
Speaker 2: that you've seen from the ground.
42:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
42:39
Speaker 2: I think I've been on every road or most trails
42:43
Speaker 2: in IDO and now to see it from the air
42:46
Speaker 2: and put it all together, or different mountain ranges I've
42:49
Speaker 2: been on on my sleds, I can fly past the
42:51
Speaker 2: Mountain range and be like, oh, yeah, I stood right there.
42:53
Speaker 2: You know, I've been there, there, there. It's kind of
42:56
Speaker 2: fun to put it all together.
42:58
Speaker 1: Totally different perspective. Yeah, that's cool, Dave, and uh is
43:02
Speaker 1: there are there a couple of folks that you follow
43:04
Speaker 1: on Instagram, like tac arrow I is one that I
43:06
Speaker 1: follow because they just have such bitching planes are based here.
43:10
Speaker 2: There's a ton on or on YouTube and Instagram. I like,
43:15
Speaker 2: you know, it's weird, it's kind of sounds more abid.
43:17
Speaker 2: But because aviation is such a serious thing, I follow
43:20
Speaker 2: a lot of the the.
43:22
Speaker 1: Guys that cover rex.
43:23
Speaker 2: Oh, study and say, you know, kind of figure out
43:26
Speaker 2: what happened, explain what happened, and you know, because if
43:30
Speaker 2: you put your head in the sand about that, you
43:32
Speaker 2: know it's not not not good. So I really try
43:34
Speaker 2: and study those. So there's a few guys that do
43:37
Speaker 2: a really good job with that, and I tend to Yeah,
43:40
Speaker 2: I tend to follow those. There are some bush plane
43:42
Speaker 2: guys that do some do there's something to do a
43:44
Speaker 2: really good job of like definitely getting you interested and
43:48
Speaker 2: excited about it. Cool, yeah, and kind of bring it,
43:52
Speaker 2: bring it to light.
43:53
Speaker 1: Well, appreciate the time, Dave. Yeah, super fun conversation and
43:57
Speaker 1: we thank you all for listening and we'll talk to
43:59
Speaker 1: you next time.