Latest / MIDDLE GROUND - Real Conversations on Faith, Identity & Becoming — Through Brynne's LDS Lens of Curiosity, Love and Doubt / Kathy Sherwood - How to Trust Your Intuition & Live in Alignment with God: A Spiritual Coach on Faith, Self-Worth, and Creating a Meaningful Life
Transcript
- Brynne Erickson (00:29) Kathy Sherwood, I am just so thrilled to have you on the show tonight. How do you feel about being on middle ground? Kathy (00:37) I am so honored. I'm so honored that you asked me. Brynne Erickson (00:41) Well, I am just tickled. So Kathy is actually my current business mentor, but she's also a spiritual coach as well. And this is kind of new ground for me and it has been so fun. And I wanted to have this conversation with Kathy because she's mentored so many different people throughout her career of different beliefs and religions, practices. And I wanted to learn more about what she's learned from people. but also about her background as well, because every time we talk, it's all about me because she's my coach. But I know that she has so much that I want to know about her. So Kathy, I am just thrilled again. So you ready to dive into it? Okay. So first of all, I am just dying to know what was your personal upbringing as far as spirituality or religion? Kathy (01:22) Let's do it. So that had a few different threads. ⁓ My maternal grandma lived with us and she was Anglican. So she took us to Sunday school. We prayed at dinner. We prayed at bedtime. ⁓ But, and okay, so we spoke about God and Christianity, basically. There was a clear Christian foundation. Brynne Erickson (01:35) Mmm. Kathy (02:01) but she was the driving force there. My mom and dad engaged in the prayers and saying grace and the conversation, but they didn't attend church themselves. ⁓ And my dad actually, he wasn't religious at all. So he was really deeply connected to nature. ⁓ Yeah, he was at home in the garden with the birds and... Brynne Erickson (02:05) Okay. Cool. . Kathy (02:30) his plants. So watching that, don't know, not necessarily a paradox, but watching the different experiences through that, guess, early on opened an awareness for me that there might be many ways to pray or connect or experience life. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (02:39) Mm-hmm. Okay. So was your dad vocal about his connection with nature or you just observed this? Kathy (03:00) I observed it more than ⁓ anything. He used to say that he really aligned with Native American beliefs, but I don't know what those were specifically. so yeah, he didn't really talk about it, but sure, we prayed together and whatnot. Later in life, my mom started exploring more of a spiritual rather than faith-based path. Brynne Erickson (03:13) you Kathy (03:26) And throughout that, like she and I used to have some really great conversations. I was in college and I was taking psychology and she would share what she was learning and I would share what I was learning. It kind of became a joke. I'd say, yeah, that's cool, mom. Now listen to this. But ⁓ it was pretty cool. It was kind of eye-opening to see how much the spirituality and the psychology mirrored each other. Brynne Erickson (03:34) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kathy (03:56) ⁓ But anyways, yeah, so was quite a combination of a spiritual path, I guess, or a religious path when I was ⁓ growing up. And that did really lead me to explore several different things. So psychology, I love learning how people work, what makes them tick, right? What motivates them and what inspires them. So psychology and spiritual paths, but Eastern and Western religions. And I just started Brynne Erickson (04:03) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy (04:24) kind of accumulating what felt true in my heart. Brynne Erickson (04:28) That's really unique. So you've always been pretty intuitive then. Hmm. Hmm. Kathy (04:33) ⁓ Maybe not consciously, but, but so my mom actually would say to me, always question everything. And I'm really grateful for that ingrained belief, basically. Yeah. So even when she was very passionate about what she was learning, she would say, don't just take what I'm learning and saying as truth, like, Brynne Erickson (04:48) Yes, that's beautiful. Hmm. Kathy (05:00) decide whether it works for you or not. So that question everything has has stayed with me and I think that's part of maybe what has helped me. not just explore the connection with God myself, but ⁓ develop and strengthen intuition. Brynne Erickson (05:17) Was your grandma ever, was your grandma really set on you guys, as grandchildren, following in her footsteps? Do you think? Kathy (05:28) Yeah, and you know, not even. She really had a strong faith and she was, I think she had 28 grandchildren. there's a lot of personalities in there and different ways of living too. She was very set with her faith and she was just a very loving, loving person. Brynne Erickson (05:33) Nice. Fun. Kathy (05:54) So no, she didn't expect any of us to do what she did, but she graciously taught us what she knew. Brynne Erickson (05:58) Mm-hmm. I love that. It's so beautiful. Whereas in my upbringing, it was very much like, this is the one way that you do this. And everyone has to do it this way, or there are consequences. Kathy (06:15) Well Brynn, I've had experiences like that, but they didn't really come from my family. yeah, yeah. So, well, yeah, it's people ⁓ who have been very aligned with their faith deciding that that is the only way. And ⁓ for a lot of years, I actually became very Brynne Erickson (06:17) Have you? Interesting. Do you mind expanding on that a little bit? Kathy (06:41) cautious of how I expressed my beliefs because of how other people would react. In fact, I used to consider that my spirituality was in the closet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brynne Erickson (06:55) Okay, interesting. At what point did you feel comfortable? Kathy (07:01) It was actually when I, it was when I became, got on the path to become a spiritual coach. ⁓ I had, like I said, always had a spiritual path. I was connected. I had my relationship with God, but I didn't share it with a lot of people. ⁓ And I got to a point where I wanted to bring my spirituality into all areas of my life, not just have this spiritual component. Brynne Erickson (07:30) Mm-hmm. Kathy (07:30) that was private to me and that kind of led me on the path to becoming a coach even though it was completely accidental. Brynne Erickson (07:39) I love it. Just to give us some context, when, what years would you have been working on your psychology degree? Kathy (07:46) early 90s. Brynne Erickson (07:47) Okay, so kind of the time when still therapy was kind of weird, right? Mm-hmm. Kathy (07:52) Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. A lot of judgment around therapy or any kind of help that you would get for, yeah, for your personal growth or development, yeah. 100%. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (08:01) Mm-hmm. And spirituality too. Yes. And Eastern medicine and belief and practice. Like, so yeah, you've always kind of been drawn to not the norm for your time. Kathy (08:17) Right, right. Well, yeah, I would consider, I would have, I still do consider myself a bit of ⁓ an outsider. Yeah, ⁓ people would joke around ⁓ about me being woo woo and you know, yeah. Natural medicines and alternative practices, it's always been part of my life. Brynne Erickson (08:32) Mm-hmm. I love that. I feel it's very much more standard and inclusive now. Like most people hardly bat an eye. Like the big, essential oils don't work for me rather than like that's super weird. Like we don't do essential oils. No, like everybody does essential oils. And here in Utah is like the Mecca of doTERRA and Young Living. So it's so funny that Kathy (08:50) for sure. yeah? Brynne Erickson (09:08) to be embedded in this very religious state, but it's a kind of a big woo woo state too. It's, yeah, yeah, it's getting more so and it is so fun. I love it. And more people are just realizing, there's actually a lot of ways of approaching medicine and health. And we're starting to become a little more open to spirituality as well, which is really fun. Yeah, so what guides you today? Kathy (09:12) Mm-hmm. Is that right? I wouldn't have guessed. Nice, nice. So great question. ⁓ It's pretty simple really, but it's something I have to continue practicing. So I always try to lead with unconditional love ⁓ as much as I'm aware of in the moment. And that's not always easy, but for me that usually looks like choosing kindness and respect and ⁓ being supportive, not judging, being curious. Brynne Erickson (09:54) Mm-hmm. Kathy (10:06) And that's for both myself and for other people. I don't always get it right, especially with myself, but it's what I try to always go back to. I think my experience has shown me that, well, yeah, it has. It's shown me that listening to my heart, paying attention to my gut, that's led me to more meaningful success in my life. Brynne Erickson (10:33) Hmm. Kathy (10:33) than any particular practice. And I mean, I've tried a lot of practices too, and I do use them. They've actually helped me learn how to be ⁓ more intuitive. So short answer, guess, my intuition, my personal connection to God, that's what I follow most. Brynne Erickson (10:37) Okay, so you do acknowledge a higher power and you acknowledge God. Okay. Yeah, I, man, that. Kathy (10:57) Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Brynne Erickson (11:05) Acknowledging that my intuition actually is the divinity within me that connects me to that higher power has been so empowering. And it's something that I've always been taught. I don't know, I've just made more sense of it in my own way as I've gotten older. Kathy (11:22) Mm-hmm that saying in your own way. That's I think a lot of what ⁓ Leads me so helping others find their own way through this wonderful thing called life Brynne Erickson (11:35) Mm, yes. Yeah, I love that. So are there any beliefs or practices from your past that you've held on? I guess you kind of said you've used a lot of different practices that you've utilized. Kathy (11:47) different practices. Yeah, but from my past, I guess like from my upbringing, well, I believe in God, I pray, I have regular communion with God. ⁓ And then any of the practices that I've, you spiritual ⁓ meditation, ⁓ any of the practices, visualization that I gathered along the way, I regularly practice, yeah. Brynne Erickson (11:51) Okay, yeah. Awesome. there any specific, like, did you, um, like Buddhism or anything like that? Kathy (12:18) Well, so my husband and I travel now, right? Like for the last four years, we've been nomadic. And I did have interest in all religions, but I don't know a whole lot about any one of them. But I can tell you that when we have been in ⁓ Asia, I've been, I felt like, ⁓ wow, you have such a beautiful way of living. And again, I don't really know that in depth. Brynne Erickson (12:42) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy (12:46) practices, but just their outlook and perspective and it's just really, really beautiful. There are things, okay, so things like feng shui, I've practiced that. ⁓ I did that in business for a while. I was a interior decorator and painter and I brought in feng shui practices there. Yeah, there's so many really cool things that you can do to Brynne Erickson (12:58) Cool. Kathy (13:13) feel more inspired, more aligned, more connected, that don't really necessarily follow one particular faith. Brynne Erickson (13:25) which I'm so grateful for. Wouldn't it be so boring if there was only one right way of being human and communing with the higher power? It is just so amazing. In fact, I'm taking a world religions course right now, and we've talked about all the different like places of worship that different religions and practices utilize. And I just learned about, the one in Japan, Shinto. Kathy (13:26) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. yes, yes, yes. Brynne Erickson (13:56) And they, forget what their buildings are called. I can't remember anymore, but I just decided I want to visit one of like as many different shrines and temples and mosques that I can. Kathy (14:12) Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it's so beautiful when Scott and I, my husband and I go into different countries and we do, we visit the things that we're welcomed into. ⁓ And it just, it's just, well, they hold the beautiful intentions of the people, right? So that you can feel that no matter whether it is Eastern or Western religion, if it's Catholic or Buddhist, it's just so. Brynne Erickson (14:20) Mm-hmm. Kathy (14:41) Yeah, it's beautiful. Brynne Erickson (14:42) Yes, it is all about connection. It's all about connection with yourself, connection with what gives you power and insight, and a lot of times connection with family and your ancestors, which I also love. And I just find, like, once you start looking for the similarities, you find them in bucketfuls. Yes. It's just incredible. I love it so much. Are there any beliefs that haven't served you? Kathy (14:51) Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. They absolutely are there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (15:11) or have been like harmful. Kathy (15:12) Well, yes, rigidity, I guess. So some of the things when people have said their way is the right way, and that's the only way, it's very hard for me to see that there's only one right way to live a life. know, ⁓ what I've seen both in my own life and working with others is that that people really Brynne Erickson (15:23) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy (15:40) They thrive, they become their best self when they're allowed to live in alignment with what feels right for them and their values and ⁓ their inner sense of rightness. you know, oftentimes people need direction, given an idea of a faith or a practice, if they haven't practiced anything before to get Brynne Erickson (15:48) Hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a good point. Kathy (16:06) to a connection, but ⁓ to say that one way is the only way is just something that from experience, it doesn't feel right for me. Brynne Erickson (16:19) I love that you said that because I think religion gets a lot of flack for being harmful and hurtful. But I like how you said, it's a... I don't remember how you said it exactly, but I took it as like, it's just a good way to explore, to learn. Kathy (16:24) Mmm. Well, think, right, I think we need some, yeah, and a guidance, right? Some sort of a guiding star, but the more you... Brynne Erickson (16:39) structure, maybe that's what it is. There we go. Kathy (16:48) The more you learn, the more you can discern with what feels right for you. But if you don't learn it at all, then you don't have that guiding light, right? Brynne Erickson (17:00) Yes, that's a great one. The more you learn, the more you discern. Good one, Kathy. I like it. All right, beautiful. You're so wise. OK, can we talk about what you do now? OK, how would you describe your job to the average person? Kathy (17:14) Absolutely. Okay, first of all, I don't think it's a job. I truly, yeah, I truly feel like what I get to do is, is an honor. It's a privilege. I get to listen to people's dreams and help them make them come true. In a nutshell, I think I, I help people figure out what's most meaningful to them in life and business. Brynne Erickson (17:22) That's amazing. Kathy (17:45) And I walk with them through the messy middle of becoming. You know, getting rid of the things that have been holding them back or the doubts that they've had or the fears or just even lack of education or instruction or guidance. Brynne Erickson (17:59) Mm-hmm. Kathy (18:00) A lot of times what I see is I'm holding a belief in people when they don't have it yet themselves. And I hold that until they do. Brynne Erickson (18:10) I love that. I love that so much. And it's totally 100 % true, because I've been able to work with you. And Kathy is just an honor and a delight to work with. So it's so true. You're so amazing. So how did you step into this world then of turning your spirituality into coaching? Kathy (18:22) Thank you. totally by accident. So I, as I mentioned, I was, ⁓ I had a business that was interior decorating and painting. And I built that from scratch. It was kind of, I jumped into it because I liked renovating our house and the opportunity came up ⁓ and I wanted to do something creative. So I jumped into that and I built it to a very successful Brynne Erickson (18:38) Yes. Love it. Kathy (18:54) business that had a great reputation, really lucrative, and I built a team of 10. Like I learned everything myself. I was flying by the seat of my pants. ⁓ Anyway, about five years in, I had a coffee and the sleeve on the coffee cup said, be careful what you're good at because you might just end up doing it for the rest of your life. And that hit me. Brynne Erickson (19:24) Interesting. Kathy (19:24) Yes, it's like, no, I can't do this for the rest of my life. I loved it, but it just wasn't enough, right? And I didn't listen to my higher guidance, my intuition. I didn't listen. And I stayed with it for seven more years until I got pushed out of it by a ⁓ not very serious accident, but an accident nonetheless that Brynne Erickson (19:37) Intuition, Yeah. ⁓ Wow. Kathy (19:51) made it so that I couldn't continue in the same capacity. Now at that, like all through that time, like for those seven years, I would wake up more dreading doing, going to work and doing the thing and just feeling like I wanted to do something so much more meaningful. And what I did was meaningful to the people that I was helping for sure, but it wasn't meaningful enough for me. Brynne Erickson (19:59) Mm-hmm. yeah. Kathy (20:17) ⁓ And I wanted to bring my spiritual life out of the closet and into every area. So I didn't know that I wanted to be a coach. I just knew I wanted to do something spiritual and more meaningful and be of service. ⁓ And then a spiritual life coach certification kind of came across my path and I just took it. I followed my intuition. And that was the first time that I... Consciously knew I was going by intuition and not logic because it made no sense at all for me to do this in because I'd lost my income my revenue from stopping my business and my husband at the time he was working in ⁓ Government contract positions and so year to year he didn't have that stability that certainty that he would have and it just so happened that he the Brynne Erickson (21:00) Mm-hmm. you Mm-hmm. Kathy (21:15) government changed and they dropped the program and he lost his job at the same time. So me investing in something that I couldn't explain logically or practically to anybody in my life, that was a big deal, like a huge deal. And ⁓ sometimes I didn't even know that we'd have groceries that week. so yeah. But again, it was fully by heart. It was, I was listening to my heart, not my head. Brynne Erickson (21:25) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Kathy (21:44) and ⁓ it worked out. So it wasn't a business training course, like a business coaching course. It was for spiritual entrepreneurs. And there were many people becoming coaches through that certification, but there were also other spiritual professionals like aromatherapists, Akashic record readers, ⁓ astrologists, numerologists, energy healers, things like that. What I learned, just being in the circle with them, Brynne Erickson (21:52) Mm-hmm. Kathy (22:14) is that so many people, especially coming from a more spiritual place, have such a hard time asking for money for their services. And it felt like such a crime to me. It's like, it shouldn't be that hard, guys. You have such a gift that you're sharing, such a beautiful service that you're sharing. So anyway, that just morphed, again, by accident into... Brynne Erickson (22:30) Mm. Kathy (22:41) me helping people learn how to do sales ⁓ for their businesses in a way that felt really aligned for them. And then it grew into marketing and networking and all of the things that are necessary for business. And I just have always brought a spiritual component to that. Brynne Erickson (23:01) I love it. Because I'm very much the same way where I'm like, this sounds like fun and interesting. Let's just try it and see what happens. Like, for some reason, it's not a big deal. And I know for a lot of people, it's a big deal to put yourself out there and try something new. But I've just learned, like, it's worse to never do it than to wonder what could have happened forever. Kathy (23:08) That's totally what I do. Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%. Brynne Erickson (23:27) because I'm very much like, Kathy (23:28) Absolutely. Brynne Erickson (23:28) have an idea, I have to at least explore it just to like get it out of my head and check it off and then I can move on. But if I stick with it, cool. But if I don't, like no big deal. Kathy (23:36) He he he he. Well, that's something that I actually coach people with. If you've got any kind of interest, like if you are interested even in the least, you're doing yourself such a disservice if you don't explore it. Doesn't mean that it's going to be the be all and end all for you, but there's something in there for you if you have some sort of inspiration for it. Yeah. So good for you for doing that. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (24:01) Yeah. well, thanks. And you helped me because you asked me like, what's your motivation, Brynn? I was like, well, I really want to do an add on to our house. And you're like, how much is that going to cost? What is that going to take? And I was like, I don't know. And I literally called the city that day. And I said, and I forget the woman who answered, but I was like, it was so funny. was like, Jennifer, I need your help making my dreams come true. I need to find the plot. Kathy (24:13) Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (24:30) plat map for my property and I need to start there. And she's like, okay. And it was so cute. And she went and found it. She called me back and she's like, good luck, Brynn. I hope it works out for you. Like it was so, it was so fun, but it, it's so true. Like if you're just have this dream, but you never actually look into how you can make it a reality, it will always just be a dream. And it's amazing how many of our dreams, once we realize there's a different way I can actually make it happen, then we make it happen. Kathy (24:40) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes, yeah. There's always going to be a solution, always, always. And from the amount of people that I have worked with, I can say there's just as many right ways to find that solution and to move forward as there are people in the world. Everybody's right way is going to be best for them. Brynne Erickson (24:59) Like it's so fun. Yes, especially today. Yes, because there's so many different ways. And I totally believe that once you start putting it into the universe, the universe is going to help you out. Kathy (25:25) Thank Yeah, well that's been my experience over and over and over again. And that's one of my favorite things too about this type of work and also the growth for myself. Like I practice it personally, but it's seeing those steps that God reveals for us. If we just take a step, then the next one gets revealed. And then once we've achieved what we were looking to achieve, Brynne Erickson (25:33) Me too. Mm-hmm. Kathy (25:57) It's looking back and going, couldn't have planned that better myself. Like this is just so perfect. Brynne Erickson (25:58) Yes. and having the evidence now that the process works. And like everything truly is working for your good. It's so awesome. And I've learned too that the more people that are involved in the process, like in my language it'd be like choosing to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, like wanting to help mankind and humanity. Like it's so fun that all of us can be a part of making things happen for each other. Kathy (26:05) Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. huh. Brynne Erickson (26:33) And I love it. So what are some of your favorite things that you've learned or experienced with the people that you work with? Kathy (26:40) Brin people are beautiful. That's, that's it. I can be exposed to so many different types of people and just see that they're all just so beautiful. You know, also very few people are as lost or broken as they think they are, you know. I think that there's a lot of really intelligent and capable and Brynne Erickson (26:42) Hmm. Mm. Kathy (27:07) deeply caring people that just have learned to doubt themselves for whatever reason, whether it's their conditioning from family or society, school, religions, whatever it is that tell them that they don't know the way. ⁓ That I see has happened a lot. once they're given, I guess it is somewhat of a permission. that they do have the knowing, that they do have the intelligence and the capability, then it's surprisingly quickly how clear people become about what their path should be. Brynne Erickson (27:56) when they give themselves permission to explore that. Kathy (27:59) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, so again, just that people typically know what they value, ⁓ but there's been a lot of noise telling them otherwise, right? Telling them what's important, what's best. And I mean, that comes through media so often. What we should believe, what we should want. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (28:26) Mm-hmm. Kathy (28:27) but strip all that away and people are just really beautiful and they deserve to have the lives that they really do know that they want. Brynne Erickson (28:37) I think most people do know the life that they want. They just don't believe that it could happen for them. Kathy (28:44) Exactly. Yep, that's another part of it. ⁓ So there's a lot of ⁓ doubt instilled in people for whatever reason. And also just the whether it is actually possible. What I have come to learn, I've seen over and over again, like this does not disrespect the circumstances that a person comes from that I personally couldn't have known because of whatever condition or system that I've Brynne Erickson (28:52) Yeah. Kathy (29:13) been privileged to be in. ⁓ no matter what, there is always a way to move out of. and towards, like out of what is and towards what they would love. And seeing that strength in people, the resourcefulness, the determination, the commitment, it just is proven over and over again that when there is a desire, when there's an inspiration, if it's on your heart for it, I fully believe that it's possible for you and actually meant for you. Brynne Erickson (29:50) I do too. I totally agree with you. Is there anything that you've learned about this life experience personally for you? Kathy (29:59) It's a journey. It's for sure a journey. ⁓ I think how things feel, like how life feels matters more than what's actually happening. ⁓ I can. if so, our relationship to ourselves, our the quality of our inner life, so our feelings, our beliefs, how we speak to ourselves. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (30:01) For sure. Can you expand on that? What do mean? Kathy (30:28) how much we trust ourselves or our inner knowing, that shapes our experiences and our outcomes more than the circumstances themselves. So rather than what's actually happening, it's how we perceive it and our relationship to it that determines the outcome of it. ⁓ And that actually has been somewhat, not somewhat, it's been a great gift. Brynne Erickson (30:40) Interesting. Kathy (30:56) for me to understand that because I've then been able to not control life and the outcome, but to have responsibility in what my life looks like. yeah, co-create with God instead of ⁓ feel like a victim of circumstance. Brynne Erickson (30:59) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, definitely. And I've heard it worded like your thoughts and your beliefs ⁓ help you create the feelings that you want to have, which then create the actions that you put out into the world, which then create your results or your outcome. Kathy (31:31) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. So if you want to know what you believe, ⁓ look at what kind of results you have and trace it back. So you have a result because of what action you took or didn't take. And that action was based on what feeling you had about yourself or the circumstances or the situation or the possibility. And then that goes back to the beliefs that you have, the thoughts you think and the beliefs you have. Brynne Erickson (31:46) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you can change those thoughts. Kathy (32:09) So if you don't like your results, yeah, you can change the beliefs. It's not ⁓ a flip of a switch, but it's absolutely possible. Brynne Erickson (32:18) Yes, I totally believe it. I've been doing that work for a little while now too, and it is so empowering. Kathy (32:25) Something else I think about life too is it's not, it's not, the goal isn't to get it right, you know? ⁓ It's not to get it perfect, but to experience, pay attention, ⁓ pay attention to what lights you up, what actually doesn't serve you, ⁓ make choices that are honest to you. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (32:30) Hmm. Kathy (32:51) quiet the noise from outside and just continually return to ourselves ⁓ when we go off path. That feels like a life really well lived to me. Brynne Erickson (32:51) You you Do think there's anything that all of humanity has to do before they get on the other side? Kathy (33:14) all of humanity like as a collective or just individually. Brynne Erickson (33:17) Hmm, that's not so, I see you more individually, like more like you got to make sure you do this like baptism for example. You've got to be baptized otherwise there's consequences on the other side. So do you believe that anything like that exists anymore? Kathy (33:24) ⁓ Hmm, hmm. I actually believe in a very loving God and this has been more, ⁓ more cemented since I became a parent, I think. ⁓ And I'm a parent to four kids. So they're different personalities. They have different needs. They have different desires. They're all really good people. And I want the best for every single one of them. I don't always agree with their choices. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (33:39) Mm-hmm. Kathy (33:57) but I love them nonetheless. I can see how, well, it just makes so much sense to me that God is a loving God, like ⁓ a loving parent would be. You still love your kids and you're gonna open the door if they come home, even if they haven't been there for a really long time. Even if they've done things you don't like and yeah, yeah. Brynne Erickson (34:16) Mm-hmm. Kathy (34:23) I think I, so no short answer. don't think there is one particular thing or, or series of things that we have to do in order to be let back home. Brynne Erickson (34:36) I love that. That's beautiful. And as I have stepped into parenthood as well, that's the exact thing that has driven my new perspective of what God could be. I've always believed in a loving God, but I guess There were still stipulations for them to love me. Now it's no like really, I love you unconditionally. You're already worthy of my love because I just give it to you freely rather than earning it, which was, you know, a lot of organized religion. have to do X, Y, to get ABC, right? Kathy (34:56) Mmm, mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yeah. But you know Brynn, if you go back to the results that you get based on the actions that you took, the thoughts you think, all of that, well the rules that you have to do this, this, or this in order to get that, maybe there's something to it, but I just don't think it's the be all and end all. I don't think there's, it's, I interpret it as All religions have these parameters and these rules, these guidelines, and they're all for good, but I don't think they're ⁓ meant to be literal. Like, be a good person, do really good things, be loving, care for others, be of service. Brynne Erickson (35:54) Mm-hmm. Kathy (36:07) And even still, if you mess up, you're still going to be let home. That's what I think. Brynne Erickson (36:10) Mm-hmm. Yeah, me too. I told my mom a while back, I was like, think religion is a great concept. Like I've humanity like ran itself kind of how religion does. Like everyone looking out for everybody and spiritually uplifting each other in a place for sharing thought and sharing each other on like that would be a great place to live. Right. But I think all the rules that we make for people and Kathy (36:29) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (36:43) Yeah, some of the more strict kind of things. I don't know how those, well, I do. It's because humans, like people following everyone else. Like it's comfortable to have people in boxes. This is how you are part of the group. Pack the boxes, stay in line. Like it just, you know, it's less, we think it's less confusion. We think it's easier. We think it's that it's helpful. Kathy (36:56) ⁓ sure, sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (37:13) Maybe for a time, right? Kind of to set you on your way and to learn what it means to be a part of a group and more and moral right and wrong and whatnot. But at some point, I think we are meant to spread our wings and be like, okay, I've got a good foundation now. Who do I want to be? How do I want to live my life? What could that look like? What can I accomplish taking all of these beautiful things that I have learned from Kathy (37:16) Yes, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (37:41) said practice or upbringing or religion. Kathy (37:45) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. My husband's dad said once to learn the rules and then know how to break them. And I adopted that in my life as well. It's been a very ⁓ effective way of, even in business, like there are so many rules, so many systems, so many... Brynne Erickson (37:57) I love it. Kathy (38:11) Leaders and gurus and structures and formats that you must follow in order to be successful and I it's no no I'll learn why they work and then I'll adopt the ones that work for me. Thank you Yeah, and similarly with with any kind of strict rule There's got to be exceptions. There's ambiguity there are different Needs and circumstances that Brynne Erickson (38:30) Mm-hmm. Kathy (38:41) make the rules need to be bent a little bit. Brynne Erickson (38:45) Yeah, and I love how people feel inspired. Like this worked for me really well. I feel like I need to share this with the world, right? Because there are definitely people that that will serve, whether it's to take that idea and be like, I'm actually going to do this little, little differently, or I'm going to change this. But you being willing to share that with the world impacts in so many different ways. Kathy (38:50) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the information's great to be out there. But again, learn why it works and then see how it can work for you. Brynne Erickson (39:12) Yep. Right. And that's why I'm doing middle ground. Exactly. Take all the information and then take it in. What do you want to do with it? What do you want to think about it? Who do you want to be? What do you want to do? All the good stuff. Are there any particular experiences or clients that you want to talk about? Kathy (39:18) Hehehehehe Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank Hmm. No, I think I think I've pretty much covered it. I do believe that everybody has the power within them to create a ⁓ meaningful, beautiful, successful, joyful, loving life. ⁓ And I want that for everyone. That is one of the biggest desires I have is to see people following. No, no, not just following. not having limits to their purpose and passion. ⁓ That's a driving force for me. talking about one in particular, I don't think there's, okay, there is a pattern that I see regardless of what the person is wanting to achieve. ⁓ And it doesn't matter if it's through relationships or money or career or life in general or wellness, there's typically a pattern and ⁓ understanding the pattern helps to create the end result that you want. And that's what I think Brynne Erickson (40:40) Okay. Okay. Kathy (40:44) a lot of the work that I do does cover too. So one particular story isn't really going to highlight it, but ⁓ there's usually an inspiration that's opposite to what is Brynne Erickson (40:57) Okay. Kathy (41:00) being lived. So an inspiration for something different than what they currently have and an excitement for it and maybe some movement forward, but usually immediately all the reasons why they can't will come up. Brynne Erickson (41:01) Okay. Okay. Kathy (41:17) And then there is that could be that could go on for years. The desire and then the reasons why they can't and then for years. Brynne Erickson (41:22) Resistance. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Kathy (41:27) But eventually it won't go away if it's really meant for you. And so eventually it'll come and there will be enough courage, I guess, and commitment to move through those doubts. And usually that comes from a lot of times it's ⁓ self work, but it's finding the guidance. from somebody else, whatever it might be. could be books or podcasts or a mentor or a teacher or a course or something that gives them permission, proof, a way forward that they start following and then start seeing success and then move towards it. There's usually gonna be people who tell you you can't. Brynne Erickson (42:01) Mm-hmm. Hmm. ⁓ Kathy (42:22) And there will be one or two people who tell you, you absolutely must. And that usually is the pattern. any, like a lot of people get stuck in the doubt phase telling themselves why they can't and stay there forever, unfortunately. Brynne Erickson (42:34) Yeah. I love that because that's like exactly the cycle that I have been on. So to hear that that's normal is so relieving actually, because you feel so alone. You feel so alone because nobody gets it, because it's calling to you specifically. And it's exciting and it's scary. And then you find someone like Cathy, who's willing to tell you. Kathy (42:46) It's totally normal. have it again. Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah. Yeah. That's so common too. Brynne Erickson (43:12) This is amazing. How beautiful is this? Let's do it. You know? And I aspire to be that person as often as I can for people. Like I am all in on your dreams. Do it. it. Tell me all about it. Right? And I think, I think fear of other people is with good intent, right? To keep us safe. Kathy (43:16) Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Yes, yes, Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For sure. Also, it helps them to not have to look at why they're not doing something different. Yeah. But yeah, it is usually with good intent. It's not to squash their dreams. No, no. Brynne Erickson (43:42) Absolutely. Yeah, exact. Malicious. Mm-hmm. No, it's to help keep you safe. yeah, that's so interesting. I love that you shared that. Thank you for sharing that with us. Yeah, that was so good. Before we close, is there one thing that you wish everyone knew or believed? You shared lots of beautiful nuggets. But is there one thing you'd like to leave us with? Kathy (43:53) Mm-hmm. Good, good, you're welcome. Well, you actually already said it too. It's that I do regardless of what people believe, whether they have spiritual or religious belief or don't have any belief at all. I really wish everybody believed that they were worthy of a beautiful life. Brynne Erickson (44:24) Me too. I think that's awesome. Hmm. Kathy (44:26) Yeah. And that they are their own best mentor, really. Like if they can really tap into what their heart, their inner guidance is telling them, that follow that path and they can have that beautiful life. Brynne Erickson (44:44) Can we stick on that just for a moment before we close? So how does one do that then? How does someone tap in to their intuition? Kathy (44:45) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, so we've talked a lot about spirituality and religion, my dad being connected with nature. There are so many different ways to ⁓ become connected. And that's what I saying. If people don't have a ⁓ path, a spiritual or religious path, then it can be very helpful to learn about various paths so that they can discern what's best for them. But... ⁓ Regardless like whether they're on one or they don't have one it's connecting with Source whatever source is going to be for them. That could be just their own inner guidance ⁓ meditation prayer visualization walking in nature ⁓ Moving their body to some really great music that they love journaling ⁓ Sitting quietly and asking Brynne Erickson (45:41) Mm-hmm. Kathy (45:49) for guidance, like asking questions and then just being open to receive. So many different ways that a person can connect. ⁓ Writing is something that I really like doing. ⁓ think you just have to practice these things and see what works for you. And the more you do it, the more connected you get. So that's part of it. And explore. Brynne Erickson (45:59) Mm-hmm. Okay, practice. And explore. ⁓ I love it. Yes, that's very good advice. All right. Kathy (46:18) Because if one way doesn't work for you, then there's got to be a way that will. Brynne Erickson (46:26) I love it. We're going to get everyone out there starting to practice listening to their intuition so that they can live the most beautiful lives possible. Thank you so much for your time, Kathy. You're amazing. Kathy (46:30) you ⁓ you're so welcome. It's a pleasure.