Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 9: Mini drones with Carys Kaiser, Hasselblad 907X & CFV 100C, OM-1 Mark II, Samsung Galaxy S24 and NEC show preview

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9: Mini drones with Carys Kaiser, Hasselblad 907X & CFV 100C, OM-1 Mark II, Samsung Galaxy S24 and NEC show preview · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

0:11
David McClelland: Hello, and welcome to The Photography and Video Show podcast for February, 2024.
0:20
David McClelland: I'm David.
0:21
David McClelland: And in this month's extended episode, we hear about some exciting new camera launches from Olympus, Hasselblad, Samsung, and, uh, Lego?
0:33
David McClelland: We take to the skies with Carys Kaiser to learn about her journey from TV producer, director.
0:38
David McClelland: To TV, drone, pilot, and photographer.
0:44
David McClelland: And we speak with The Photography and Video Show's Hazel Soper to get the gossip on what is new and who is new at this year's in-person show at the NEC in Birmingham, from the 16th to the 19th of March.
0:58
David McClelland: And joining us aboard the camera news express today is Digital Camera World editor, James Artaius.
1:04
David McClelland: James, how have you been?
1:06
James Artaius: I'm very, very well.
1:07
James Artaius: Thank you, David.
1:08
James Artaius: It's new year, new me, new gear, new stuff to be excited about.
1:12
James Artaius: So, great time to be chatting with you about all things, uh, shiny and new.
1:16
David McClelland: Well, we've certainly been in a bit of a news desert over December and maybe January as well with Things like Black Friday and January sales and so on taking over the news headlines and understandably I think camera manufacturers and kit manufacturers have been I guess reluctant to release new stuff when everything's about deals and getting rid of old stock cheaply; certainly seems that there's a lot of news happening out there at the moment.
1:42
James Artaius: It does, and I think for photographers and videographers, it's a little bit of a changing of the guard, because obviously we've had CES in the semi recent past, and it was never a photography show in and of itself, But it was often used as a platform to launch or announce or tease something, uh, photographical or videographic.
2:00
James Artaius: And it seems to be less and less the case these days, I suppose.
2:02
James Artaius: We have CP Plus around the corner.
2:04
James Artaius: Obviously we have The Photography and Video Show around the corner as well.
2:07
James Artaius: But it sort of feels, like you say, the earlier part of the year does feel like it's being cannibalized these days by that rush to sort of get rid of the stock before we, uh, push out the new stuff.
2:17
David McClelland: Yes, indeed.
2:18
David McClelland: Well, I was at CES a couple of weeks ago myself, which is partly why my voice is, I'm not going to lie, a little bit tired, a little bit hoarse today.
2:26
David McClelland: My body is certainly in recovery mode.
2:28
David McClelland: But the big camera brands were certainly out there.
2:31
David McClelland: They certainly had a big presence.
2:32
David McClelland: I had a walk around the Nikon stand.
2:34
David McClelland: I had a walk around the Canon stand.
2:35
David McClelland: Sony was there.
2:37
David McClelland: Fitting photography, I think, into other parts of its ecosystem as well.
2:41
David McClelland: And then at the more, um emerging side of photography and imaging at some of the, uh, newcomer and smaller brand events.
2:50
David McClelland: I had some hands on with the Unistellar, Unistellar Odyssey Pro gear as well.
2:56
David McClelland: They weren't the only ones there.
2:57
David McClelland: Varonis as well, showing off some of their telescope gear.
2:59
David McClelland: So yeah, CES, obviously, everyone is fighting for airtime at an event like that, so I can quite understand how brands, if they're choosing, particularly where there are more industry specific events, they might choose to launch their products either in their own right, at their own events, or as part of those other events where there's less, maybe less noise, maybe less competition, There is still lots of new stuff for us to talk about.
3:28
David McClelland: And as we say, the news train is travelling at full steam.
3:32
David McClelland: Announcements across lots of different lines.
3:34
David McClelland: James, you are our news conductor today.
3:38
David McClelland: Should we start by, checking the tickets in the first class carriages, perhaps, because first class carriages look quite busy today.
3:47
David McClelland: Who's sitting up there right at the front?
3:50
James Artaius: Well, if we look at the, uh, the best dressed gentleman on this particular express, that'll be, uh, that'll be the, uh, the Swedish chap, um, rocking the new Hasselblad 907X and, uh, CFV 100C.
4:02
James Artaius: So there is a new Hasselblad Camera, more specifically, a new Hasselblad camera back.
4:08
James Artaius: So the CFV 100 C is specifically the digital camera back that now comes in a delicious a hundred megapixel flavor.
4:16
James Artaius: So the 9 0 7 x was the existing, to call it a camera might be a little bit generous.
4:21
James Artaius: It is more of an.
4:21
James Artaius: interface between the camera back and between the lens system.
4:26
James Artaius: Um, and for those who are unfamiliar with the way modular cameras work, this is kind of, if you, if you go back to the pre digital age, to the film day.
4:33
James Artaius: So, um, lots of people are familiar with like the Hasselblad 500C, that's like an iconic old, um, medium format film camera.
4:40
James Artaius: You have the body itself of the camera, and it has a back, so you could have a Polaroid back, or an 8x10 back, or, you know, whatever.
4:47
James Artaius: That would be where the film goes, um, attaches to the body, and then obviously a lens attaches to the other end of the body.
4:52
James Artaius: So you've got this sort of three part system, and that's what we have these days.
4:56
James Artaius: So the 907X is the Body, if you like, even though these days it's about, you know, it's a few millimetres thick, it's very, very thin.
5:02
James Artaius: Uh, the digital back that plugs in that has the image sensor and all the clever stuff and the LCD screen on the back.
5:07
James Artaius: And then the lens goes on the front.
5:08
James Artaius: So it's taking that old, vintage, historic, classic tradition of the way modular medium format cameras used to work.
5:15
James Artaius: And translating it to the modern day.
5:17
James Artaius: And yes, so we have a very tasty 100 megapixel camera designed much like So Hasselblad has two different kind of systems.
5:23
James Artaius: It has the, uh, the X system which is the, um, it's more of a conventional mirrorless camera.
5:28
James Artaius: It has a, it looks like a thick DSLR, a bit more stylish than a DSLR, but a thick DSLR body.
5:33
James Artaius: With a viewfinder and a screen and buttons and all that sort of stuff, a shutter button.
5:36
James Artaius: Then you've got this, the 907X, which looks more like the old film body.
5:40
James Artaius: It doesn't have an EVF, it has a tilting screen on the back.
5:43
James Artaius: Which, um, it, it tilts to about 40 or 90 degrees.
5:46
James Artaius: The idea being you use it like a waist level finder.
5:49
James Artaius: So, those of us of a certain age will love sort of having this thing at waist level.
5:52
James Artaius: Looking down, being very considered about composing our scene and looking at compositional sort of stuff.
5:59
James Artaius: And, uh, yeah, just really enjoying that process.
6:01
James Artaius: And that's what Hasselblad kind of is all about.
6:03
James Artaius: It's, it's not about sort of fire and forget, take a million frames, blah blah blah blah blah.
6:08
James Artaius: It's not even a video oriented body.
6:10
James Artaius: In fact, it has no video capability whatsoever.
6:13
James Artaius: Which, uh, in these days might seem strange.
6:15
James Artaius: Why would a premium 100 megapixel camera that costs, what is it David?
6:19
James Artaius: In the region of 8 or 9 grand?
6:20
James Artaius: Something
6:21
David McClelland: yes, so I've got the U.
6:22
David McClelland: S.
6:22
David McClelland: dollar prices here, that's 8, 199 I've seen, plus if you want to buy the optical viewfinder, that's an additional 499.
6:34
James Artaius: So it's, with that kind of price tag, it may seem strange to those who are not invested in medium format or traditional camera systems to say, hey, why doesn't this have video?
6:43
James Artaius: Even my phone does video.
6:45
James Artaius: And that's actually kind of the point.
6:47
James Artaius: This is not a system that's intended to be used on a gimbal or to be done for vlogging or, you know, stick on a Gorilla Glass.
6:52
James Artaius: Pod and film yourself doing stuff that's not what this camera's for.
6:56
James Artaius: Uh, and with the previous, um, with the 50 megapixel hassle blinds that came out, actually the cameras were released with a video function that didn't actually work for about six to eight months after launch.
7:06
David McClelland: extraordinary, it really
7:08
James Artaius: Yeah, I mean you would press the video function and a little message would come up saying function not available and they firmwareed it in at a later stage, but I think Apart from folks like myself going, you know what that's quite an expensive camera It feels a bit strange for that function not to be included at launch So between that and the fact that actually nobody's using that camera for video I I'm actually quite I quite admire the idea of being, you know, having your convictions and saying, this is a really serious piece of photography kit.
7:33
James Artaius: Let's not fiddle about and talk about 4k, 8k, whatever else, because nobody's buying this for that purpose.
7:38
James Artaius: Um, this is a camera intended for still life, for portraiture, for landscapes, part of the new digital back.
7:43
James Artaius: So it has a hundred megapixel sensor as the Hasselblad X2D did before it.
7:47
James Artaius: Uh, it also has phase detect autofocus, which if you've used the previous Hasselblad medium Format mirrorless camera, you'll be very thankful that the, phase detectors in there because the contrast detect was a little bit creaky on the old system, but now it's, it's got fairly reliable face detect.
8:02
James Artaius: Uh, it's nice and snappy.
8:03
James Artaius: It's a gloriously designed piece of kit, as you might imagine of a Hasselblad device, uh, and the files, I truly, sincerely, genuinely believe that Hasselblad has the best color science in the business.
8:14
David McClelland: Yes, and they talk about that with the release as well, don't they, about the colour science specifically being truer to life here than maybe in any of the previous Hasselblad cameras?
8:25
James Artaius: Absolutely, and we, you know, we famously, um, you know, certainly YouTubers will talk about Canon having the best color science.
8:32
James Artaius: Uh, Fuji users will talk about the color science of Fujifilm.
8:35
James Artaius: And Fujifilm is, is, I would say is probably, uh, the second when it comes to that second best.
8:40
James Artaius: You know, look at the GFX cameras.
8:41
James Artaius: So, uh, we talk about digital medium format.
8:44
James Artaius: There's really There's three players.
8:45
James Artaius: There's Phase One, which are the kind of 20 grand big boy cameras, far too expensive for the likes of you and me, or certainly for me, David.
8:52
James Artaius: Um, then you have, uh, Fujifilm and Hasselblad.
8:55
James Artaius: And the real difference here is going to get really, really geeky on you all.
8:58
James Artaius: So digital medium format is actually not true medium format.
9:02
James Artaius: So a digital medium format sensor is a bit smaller than an actual, uh, medium format film would be, which
9:08
David McClelland: Now, I didn't know this at all.
9:10
David McClelland: This is, this is news to me.
9:11
David McClelland: I don't get to sit in first class, often enough.
9:15
James Artaius: Looking over the Swedish man's shoulder in front of the train.
9:17
James Artaius: Yes, so it's sort of, digital medium format is a little bit like APS C compared to full frame in those terms.
9:22
James Artaius: But those sensors are still bigger than 35mm full frame sensors.
9:25
James Artaius: But, yes, the purists will be quick to remind you that they're not real medium format.
9:30
James Artaius: But, yeah, it's all much for much these days.
9:32
James Artaius: If megapixel files, you're still doing pretty good for yourself.
9:39
David McClelland: Now It used to be that smartphone cameras were consigned to the cheap seats right at the back of the train, but Samsung is making an argument that that should no longer be the case, and its latest lineup announced, uh, also in January, it's been staking its claim for some first class treatment too, hasn't it, James?
9:57
David McClelland: In quite a spectacular way, I have to say.
10:00
James Artaius: It has, and I think we, these days, I think anyone listening to this podcast and most people who sort of, you know, have a, a smartphone in general these days will be aware of just how clever, just how accomplished, just how capable our phones are.
10:13
James Artaius: And we do seem to have reached this tipping point.
10:15
James Artaius: It certainly felt this way with the Google, the most recent Google Pixel, and no doubt the next Google Pixel, and most definitely with the new Samsung.
10:22
James Artaius: So it has one new camera module.
10:25
James Artaius: from that, the improvements are pretty much all based on AI, which lends to a very, you know, uh, a provocative conversation on how much AI is welcome or helpful or intrusive when it comes to photography, but nonetheless, the stuff that the Samsung S24 series can do with AI is really clever, and it's, yeah, I wonder now, are we reaching this tipping point where hardware is kind of, you know, uh, Less important than the software.
10:51
James Artaius: And if that being the case, can they firmware the S23 and make that just as clever?
10:55
James Artaius: But that notwithstanding, the S24 can do some very, very clever computational stuff with AI.
11:00
James Artaius: In terms of video editing as well, not just stills.
11:02
James Artaius: It can do clever things in terms of object moving and resizing, um, with video as well as stills.
11:08
James Artaius: as I mentioned, it replaced the old 10x zoom with a 5x zoom module, which some people got a little bit upset about.
11:14
James Artaius: But because the five times zoom module actually has a superior sensor.
11:18
James Artaius: So combining that five times zoom module with a superior sensor and some clever AI, it can actually accomplish the 10 times zoom with superior quality to the previous one.
11:28
James Artaius: So again, what may seem like a technological downgrade is kind of made up for with an AI and a software based.
11:34
James Artaius: Upgrade.
11:35
James Artaius: So this is just a really fascinating time to be looking at imaging.
11:38
James Artaius: I don't think we're there with conventional cameras yet where the software, the firmware can make up for, uh, last year's tech in this year's camera.
11:46
James Artaius: But certainly that feels like a thing now.
11:48
James Artaius: Are we reaching, you know, this is kind of, we, we've plateaued with what the sensors and the lenses and smartphones can do.
11:55
James Artaius: But they are so much more clever and capable with software.
11:58
James Artaius: It will be interesting to see what Apple does next.
12:00
James Artaius: Because Apple has never been one to join this megapixel race.
12:03
James Artaius: The Samsung S24 has a 200 megapixel sensor.
12:05
James Artaius: It can shoot 8K.
12:07
James Artaius: Those aren't things Apple has really been interested in.
12:09
James Artaius: They've been happy with a 12 megapixel, 48 megapixel sensor.
12:13
James Artaius: They're not really on that arms race that we've seen in digital cameras a long time ago.
12:17
James Artaius: It was always the thing, well, this camera has more megapixels.
12:20
James Artaius: Well, now maybe the megapixel count isn't as important as How clever is your AI?
12:24
James Artaius: And this feels like a place where Samsung, and Samsung's very, very deeply involved with Google.
12:28
James Artaius: Uh, that was a big part of the presentation as well.
12:31
James Artaius: Is that more important than the cameras themselves?
12:33
James Artaius: And that's, uh, that's a big question.
12:36
James Artaius: I don't know the answer.
12:37
David McClelland: I mean if we just abstract specifically from AI and talk about computational photography, then that's certainly a journey we've been on for a few years now.
12:47
David McClelland: And you look at how Apple versus how Google or Samsung market the camera and the imaging capabilities in their devices, it is fundamentally different.
12:59
David McClelland: Apple very rarely mentions ai, it seems it almost goes, um, out of its way not to talk about these things.
13:06
David McClelland: It wants it all to be seamless.
13:08
David McClelland: It wants it all just to work to, to, to, to be part of the experience.
13:13
David McClelland: And, you know, you will see the images, uh, have, you know that they talk about the image pipeline, uh, in the image signal processor in there to talk about all the, all the different bits of processing.
13:23
David McClelland: But that is completely hidden from you as the user unless you really, really want to dive in or use some bespoke apps.
13:30
David McClelland: But when you start looking at what Google talks about in when it launches its pixel phones, and then Samsung, it's all about the AI.
13:39
David McClelland: We're seeing two ends of a spectrum here of different ways to go to market with this technology.
13:45
David McClelland: So AI clearly has been the buzz phrase over the last 18 or so months, and Samsung has leapt onto that.
13:52
David McClelland: But, you know, when you mention a few of the capabilities there, notwithstanding the 200 megapixel sensor, I mean, let's not Let's not forget that.
14:00
David McClelland: That is a 200 megapixel sensor on the S24 Ultra, along with a handful of others as well, including a digital zoom up to 100 times.
14:09
David McClelland: Yeah, whatever.
14:10
David McClelland: A space zoom up to 100 times.
14:13
David McClelland: Let's see how the moon shots come out with this one and how much AI has gone into making those.
14:20
David McClelland: But it's some of the more useful applications of this.
14:23
David McClelland: So, for example, On last month's podcast, we were chatting with amazing urban photographer and Nikon partner Ben Moore.
14:32
David McClelland: I love Ben's work, really, really love his work, um, and the gadget that he talked about was this kind of sock, this hood that goes over your camera when you're shooting through glass windows from the top of tall buildings, for example, to kill those reflections.
14:48
David McClelland: Well, something that Samsung spoke about in the Samsung photo editing application was using.
14:53
David McClelland: A.
14:53
David McClelland: I.
14:53
David McClelland: To remove reflections on shots that were taken through a window.
14:58
David McClelland: I love that.
14:59
David McClelland: Absolutely love that.
15:00
David McClelland: And that would make a real discernible difference to the images that you take.
15:05
David McClelland: Also straighten out images, particularly sometimes I'm actually pretty good even with a smartphone without any level enabled at taking what I think is a horizon true image, at least when I'm trying to do that deliberately, but sometimes it's not quite right.
15:21
David McClelland: Um, but what the AI capabilities here will do is automatically straighten out and use generative, field generative Expand, I guess, if we're looking at it in Photoshop terms, just to fill in the gaps that you might get through straightening out an image.
15:35
David McClelland: Uh, I think that sort of stuff, particularly the more transparent it becomes to users, is where we really start to see the value of AI.
15:47
David McClelland: Let's, uh, let's head towards the middle of the train now, James, with a new announcement from an outfit formerly known as Olympus.
15:58
David McClelland: they brought something out that's brand spanking new.
16:02
David McClelland: This is pretty much hot off the press, isn't it?
16:04
James Artaius: Absolutely, so announced just, uh, yesterday is the new flagship camera, uh, the OM system, OM1 Mark II.
16:13
James Artaius: Uh, and when I say new, there will be some folks who get, who bristle about that a bit, because in a lot of ways, the Mark II OM1 is very similar to the Mark I OM1.
16:24
James Artaius: Um, Funny, we've been talking about AI because that's really where a lot of the magic is.
16:29
James Artaius: So, you know, you're still getting a very similar 20.
16:31
James Artaius: 4 megapixel sensor.
16:33
James Artaius: Um, a lot of the computational cleverness that the OM1 was known and loved for.
16:37
James Artaius: rock solid stabilization, you know, great form factor.
16:40
James Artaius: We've talked, you know, all the things that people either love or hate about Micro Four Thirds.
16:44
James Artaius: I'm a big, um, lover of Micro Four Thirds.
16:46
James Artaius: So it's, it's, it's something that I'm, I really enjoy.
16:48
James Artaius: The big improvements to me.
16:51
James Artaius: Um, again, AI based.
16:52
James Artaius: The first one I was always surprised by, the image stabilization has been improved.
16:57
James Artaius: Algorithmically.
16:58
James Artaius: So they haven't changed the mechanics, it's algorithmically.
17:00
James Artaius: So now we're talking about an 8.
17:02
James Artaius: 5 stops of compensation, which is best in market.
17:05
James Artaius: So there's a number of other systems that can do 8 stops.
17:07
James Artaius: Well, the OM system, OM1 Mark II, can do 8.
17:10
James Artaius: 5 stops.
17:11
James Artaius: Which is, you know, if you're somebody who shoots video, or shoots handheld, shoots low light photography, shoots with long lenses, any extra stops of compensation are really, really useful.
17:20
James Artaius: But to me, it's just very clever they can do that with algorithm, not just mechanics.
17:24
David McClelland: Does, I mean, I'll just stop you there.
17:27
David McClelland: For me, that starts to raise alarm bells.
17:29
David McClelland: That's, that's the similar sort of thing in my head.
17:31
David McClelland: If it's, if it's algorithmic, I'm thinking, Oh, no, is that similar to digital zoom versus optical zoom?
17:38
David McClelland: How can an algorithm improve what might be a kind of physical wobble?
17:43
David McClelland: Do you know what I mean?
17:44
David McClelland: What, what's the, compromise there?
17:46
David McClelland: Or, or is there not one?
17:47
David McClelland: Are the algorithms really so smart that they're able to make it imperceptible?
17:52
James Artaius: That's a really good question.
17:53
James Artaius: And one to which we don't have an answer.
17:55
James Artaius: I can sort of take, a cue from the Nikons.
17:58
James Artaius: And I think I want to say it was the Nikon ZF that introduced Nikon's version.
18:03
James Artaius: Again, I'm not saying that the same technologies Nikon has, oh gosh, it's called vibration reduction focus or something to that effect.
18:10
James Artaius: And it uses a Nikon cause image stabilization, VR, vibration reduction, uh, and it uses your focus point.
18:17
James Artaius: to inform the stabilization.
18:20
David McClelland: Okay.
18:20
James Artaius: Now, in terms of science, I'm too dumb to know what that actually does, but for example, if it knew you were focusing on a certain object at a certain focal length with a certain shutter speed, it may be able to compensate.
18:30
James Artaius: For example, if we're shooting across a long field and I'm focusing on the cow at the far end of the field, not the tree at the front of it, it would require a different kind of compensation.
18:39
James Artaius: So I think it's using that.
18:41
James Artaius: Kind of information.
18:42
James Artaius: So not just trying to embellish what's already there with a bit of, let's say, you know, electronic stabilization, it's maybe using your focus point and, um, you know, some more authentic data to inform how it stabilize, you know, what kind of lens is it?
18:57
James Artaius: Is it a long lens that's nose heavy?
18:59
James Artaius: Okay, it's using that you're focusing in the mid the mid ground here.
19:02
James Artaius: So It's going to do some clever maths like that.
19:05
James Artaius: That's my, uh, that's my summation, maybe completely off point there.
19:09
James Artaius: Uh, when I get to speak to OMSystemNext, I will certainly be asking them about that.
19:13
James Artaius: But, again, the fact that, as we were just saying, AI can be so clever now.
19:18
James Artaius: It can do things, you know, the hardware can be very similar, but the AI can be very different.
19:22
James Artaius: Another thing I really love about the OMSystem, OM1 Mark II.
19:26
James Artaius: It's funny, Olympus always had a reputation for having these very long product names and OM, OM is now getting into the same kind of ballpark.
19:33
James Artaius: We have, so previously the company introduced live ND filters.
19:38
James Artaius: So this was like a software simulation of an ND filter.
19:41
James Artaius: So the filter you put on the front of your lens To sort of shoot in harsh lighting conditions.
19:45
James Artaius: If you wanted to shoot waterfalls with kind of that dreamy flowing effect.
19:48
James Artaius: Or waves that were kind of not crashing.
19:51
James Artaius: They're not frozen.
19:52
James Artaius: They're in this sort of, uh, streamy sort of, uh, deliciously creamy sort of look.
19:56
David McClelland: if you had a slow shutter speed but didn't want to overexpose,
19:59
James Artaius: Exactly that.
20:00
James Artaius: Um, so you would have an ND, a physical ND filter.
20:02
James Artaius: So Olympus introduced, or OM introduced, a software based version of that.
20:06
James Artaius: That you might think, oh, that sounds like it's going to be a gimmick and really bad.
20:10
James Artaius: It was actually really great.
20:11
James Artaius: It was a little bit limited, but it was really, really great.
20:13
James Artaius: Now, so, that software itself has an extra stop of, uh, simulated ND.
20:18
James Artaius: So you can shoot with a bit harsher light.
20:20
James Artaius: But as a kind of graduation of that principle, there is now live grad filters as well.
20:27
David McClelland: Ah.
20:28
James Artaius: you can shoot, for example, let's say you're shooting a mountain, a mountain sort of at an angle, and you've got the harsh light behind it, and you want to sort of have a graduated filter across, you can now sort of select a line across the screen and drag with your finger, drag where you want The graduation or the gradiation to be on your image, uh, which, again, it seems like one of those ideas, you see the, the teaser video, you see people talk about it, you think that's a gimmick, it's never gonna work that well.
20:55
James Artaius: It turns out it actually works pretty blooming well.
20:58
James Artaius: And whether it will truly replace Grad filters, physical grad filters, that's another conversation.
21:04
James Artaius: Will it be something that when you've got this camera with you, and a moment presents itself, and you didn't bring all your kit, but there's a fantastic shot there, and you can either use the software, or you can miss the shot.
21:15
James Artaius: Well, to be honest, I'll use the software, I'll take the shot.
21:18
James Artaius: And it turns out, you know, this has been in the hands of a lot of ambassadors trying this new kit, and they're saying, actually, this is serious.
21:25
James Artaius: This is a really potentially game changing bit of stuff, where now, yes, everyone's first choice is going to be to have real NDs, real grad filters, but we're getting to the point now where This stuff can be built in.
21:38
James Artaius: It can be software.
21:39
James Artaius: It can be AI driven.
21:40
James Artaius: And, like I say, that makes a difference between you and I.
21:42
James Artaius: We've got a camera with us, but we didn't bring all the gear.
21:45
James Artaius: Now we can get a shot we may never have been able to get before.
21:48
James Artaius: Which to me is really exciting.
21:49
David McClelland: Love the sound of that.
21:51
David McClelland: So, that's the OM system, OM1, uh, Mark 2.
21:56
James Artaius: 2.
21:57
David McClelland: Price point availability, do we have any news on those?
22:00
James Artaius: Uh, yes we do.
22:01
James Artaius: So the camera is available for pre order as we speak, and certainly price in the UK is 2, 699, so 2, 700.
22:09
James Artaius: Um,
22:10
David McClelland: Proper money, proper money
22:12
James Artaius: It's proper money, and again, there's a lot of prejudice against Micro Four Thirds as a system, as a standard.
22:18
James Artaius: And you're either going to be a believer in this kit, or you're not.
22:21
James Artaius: Um, to give my version of the advantages of Micro Four Thirds, and remember this is a flagship camera.
22:28
James Artaius: it's a professional grade camera, it's IP53 certified, this is a camera you can literally take in the pouring rain, and there are many camera systems, many camera manufacturers have weather sealing, most of them aren't certified to IP, IPX standards, and even some of those that do boast weather sealing, I won't Single out brands, but I wouldn't trust them.
22:47
James Artaius: I wouldn't trust them in light rain, let alone taking them into a rain forest.
22:51
James Artaius: The, the OM system kits and the OM1 in specific with this IP53 rating, it is.
22:56
James Artaius: I would take it into a downpour and shoot with it.
22:58
James Artaius: Just just sort of put that price into perspective.
23:00
James Artaius: It's a lot of cash But you're getting a lot of camera and a lot of cleverness as well for your money.
23:05
David McClelland: And you've spoken on here before about having the right tool for the right job, particularly, uh, when it comes to traveling as well.
23:12
David McClelland: And of course we have Peter Dench on here just before Christmas talking about him taking an OM five Ukraine and Odessa and, and why Micro four thirds certainly was anything but a compromise.
23:24
David McClelland: In fact, it was an asset, We're going to hop off the news train for just a moment as the train pulls in to Feature Ville.
23:39
David McClelland: Carys Kaiser has been a camera operator and shooting producer director for prime time TV shows in the UK.
23:46
David McClelland: However, a recent downturn in the UK television industry has been nothing short of devastating for many who work within it.
23:56
David McClelland: In the face of adversity, Carys has been able to diversify, rejigging her offerings to broadcast clients and taking her creativity to new Heights.
24:08
Carys Kaiser: So I'm Carys Kaiser and I am a drone pilot, TV camera operator, occasional shooting PD, and educator.
24:19
David McClelland (2): And for those who don't necessarily work within the TV industry, a shooting PD is a shooting producer,
24:26
Carys Kaiser: So you are, directing the show or program that you're on, but you're dealing with camera, sound, talent, presenter, contributor, junior members of staff, location, story, the shot list, the sit down interviews, the movement.
24:43
Carys Kaiser: Ready for somebody to take over the edit and you'll just hand over all of that.
24:48
David McClelland: It's certainly a jack or a jackling of Alltrade's job with an awful lot of responsibility; talk to me about your present day right now, talk to me about your work in particular as a drone pilot, a drone videographer, a drone photographer as well.
25:04
Carys Kaiser: So as a drone pilot, that is my current main source of income 2023.
25:11
Carys Kaiser: That has been the priority, of where all the workers come from.
25:15
Carys Kaiser: It's always, can you fly a drone?
25:16
Carys Kaiser: Can you do the show?
25:17
Carys Kaiser: Can you provide these photographs?
25:20
Carys Kaiser: It's not an overnight success.
25:21
Carys Kaiser: So anyone that is thinking about getting a drone and making loads of money doing it, first of all, you don't make loads of money doing it.
25:29
Carys Kaiser: And secondly, it's not an overnight success.
25:32
Carys Kaiser: It's a long game.
25:33
Carys Kaiser: It's, it's learning the craft.
25:35
Carys Kaiser: It's making contacts.
25:37
Carys Kaiser: It's.
25:38
Carys Kaiser: Working with people that become friends within the industry.
25:42
Carys Kaiser: It's a wide ranging subject, so you can go off on a little tangent and make some money doing something else, but is with a drone.
25:50
Carys Kaiser: So, sometimes, occasionally, I go off and do 3D mapping and I'll collect the data, and that's basically just photographs, in a sequence.
26:00
Carys Kaiser: But that can boost my income for a month, you know, because it's all a sum of parts.
26:05
Carys Kaiser: so yeah, that's my main source of income, but it's taken a long time to get to that point.
26:09
Carys Kaiser: and then I'll do photography, and then within that I'll do photographic projects, which then I'll end up with an exhibition as a photographer.
26:19
Carys Kaiser: So it's kind of like, it's an odd thing really, because it's ever evolving.
26:24
Carys Kaiser: Um, it's not just about the technical and the law, but it's about how can you use this drone creatively?
26:31
David McClelland: I want to come on to the photography piece in a moment, because I think that's really interesting.
26:35
David McClelland: But in terms of the drone industry taking off, excuse me, uh, it certainly has been something that we've seen over the last ten years or so, and I think it's easy to see why in some regards, because, a drone shot in a piece of video whether that's for tv or for a corporate or whatever it instantly adds some production value doesn't it and it's cheaper than what the alternative was before which was to pop a big helicopter or even just just a platform for a temporary aerial shot so I can see where, where the growth in this industry has really come from.
27:12
David McClelland: And for the video work that you do, you mentioned some surveying work which I think is interesting as well.
27:17
David McClelland: But I noticed from your credits, there's a lot of broadcast in there for sure.
27:20
Carys Kaiser: Yeah, so at broadcast TV is where I've ended up with a kind of a lot of bookings and it's all sorts of documentaries and what's happening is that people are starting to use them in a more creative way.
27:33
Carys Kaiser: So I did, um, a documentary and it was about, a murder trial what they wanted to do is have the drone with the sort of like what I call the top down.
27:43
Carys Kaiser: bird's eye view, so that they could use that as an overlay with graphics to show what happened.
27:50
Carys Kaiser: So sometimes you end up working on things that are quite dark, but you don't think about that, you're just thinking about what is that shot you've got your director with you looking over your shoulder and saying, yes, that's, that's exactly what I want to see when I get to the edit.
28:03
Carys Kaiser: I'll be trusted by a production company.
28:05
Carys Kaiser: I won't even meet these people.
28:07
Carys Kaiser: I'll have a Zoom call.
28:08
Carys Kaiser: They'll talk to me about what they want, and then I'll go for two days, five days, whatever, and just get loads of drone shots, a variety of drone shots for the titles and throughout a six part series.
28:22
Carys Kaiser: So they might say, well, these characters are going to, it could be an observational documentary, where they say, well, these characters are going to go in and out of work and we need things to break it up.
28:31
Carys Kaiser: So we don't see the characters and I might go off and film it and they won't be there, but it's.
28:37
Carys Kaiser: So that happens quite a lot for me, which is interesting because what used to happen, and still does, you get booked as a drone operator and you film things as they're filming their sequences through the weeks.
28:50
Carys Kaiser: But what's happening more and more for me is that I just get booked by a production company.
28:55
Carys Kaiser: They'll come to the end of the shoot, so they know what sort of drones they want, and they'll say, Two days, you, an assistant, go out in a van, get all of this, we want some of Bury, we want some of Bolton, we want Centre of Manchester, we want this, we want that.
29:08
Carys Kaiser: And I think the invention of the mini drones, and the law changing to this sub 250 gram drone, which are these small, they look like toys.
29:17
Carys Kaiser: Those have really opened up my storytelling ability.
29:21
Carys Kaiser: So I can fly.
29:23
Carys Kaiser: In the centre of a city and capture things, whereas I might have had, in the past, have cordons, road closures and all of this kind of thing, but the law says that, you know, you can fly.
29:36
Carys Kaiser: It's just that, from an insurance perspective and a production expect expectation is that you still have a qualification.
29:43
Carys Kaiser: You could say well drone operator as a job is done then but it's not because as I say production companies won't take a risk and say oh yeah we just get because their insurance won't allow them to do that.
29:55
David McClelland: Could you summarise what the requirements are in order to fly a drone?
30:00
David McClelland: So let's say I'm a creator or a professional or someone has asked me for this thing.
30:06
David McClelland: Could you just get a quick aerial shot of the city centre or of the landscape or whatever it is.
30:12
David McClelland: What would I I need to know in order to know whether I can just go out and buy a small drone and do that, or whether I need to have some other qualification or some other insurance to do this ethically, legally.
30:26
Carys Kaiser: Okay, if you only have a mini drone which is 249 grams or under.
30:31
Carys Kaiser: The, the law is quite different from if you have a bigger drone, so that's why the popularity of mini drones is great.
30:39
Carys Kaiser: For that, for anybody, what they need to do is register that drone with using an operator ID and it's around 10 with the which is a civil aviation authority who govern drones and aviation in this country.
30:57
Carys Kaiser: And then you also need to do a flyer ID.
30:59
Carys Kaiser: Which is, a basic type of training and quiz online, again, run by the CAA, so the Civil Aviation Authority, has all of this on their website.
31:10
Carys Kaiser: And that will give you the basic requirements.
31:14
Carys Kaiser: Now, the reason that you need to have the is because you've got a camera.
31:19
Carys Kaiser: If the drone doesn't have a camera, then you don't need, an operator ID, but people will argue with me that that, but if you actually read the small print, that's what it says.
31:28
Carys Kaiser: and if you're going to be using it in a professional capacity in any way, you need that.
31:33
Carys Kaiser: And then also you need insurance And then after that, what you need to do is start to look at, you know, how, and where you're going to fly that.
31:41
Carys Kaiser: And if you don't have any training, how do you know that you can't fly in certain parts of London?
31:47
Carys Kaiser: What will happen is the geofencing on the drone should alert you.
31:52
Carys Kaiser: However, DJI have sort of lessened that recently in this upgrade that's taken place, which means it's not flagging.
32:00
Carys Kaiser: many people go walking in the Lake District and then say there was this great big jet and they fly low and they come fast?
32:09
Carys Kaiser: you know, there are areas where, you know, drones are just kind of like Blanket ban and you need to make a provision.
32:18
Carys Kaiser: So if I'm booked by a production company, I'll spend time and I'll get in touch and I'll ask for permission or I'll flag up to the low level flying number.
32:26
Carys Kaiser: I'm going to be here at this time flying a drone and then usually they avoid that area.
32:30
Carys Kaiser: So.
32:31
Carys Kaiser: There's lots of things, but mini drones are a brilliant tool, they're cheap, and you can get the money back on it quite quickly, but it's just being aware of what you need to do for that.
32:45
David McClelland: What's the compromise there with the mini drone?
32:47
David McClelland: Obviously, it's got a smaller payload in there but it's the quality of cameras that they can carry; has it developed to the stage where it is perfectly adequate for the majority of broadcast and content creation jobs.
33:00
Carys Kaiser: There is a compromise with the camera, the cameras are getting better and better, but there is a slight compromise on that camera.
33:07
Carys Kaiser: I can tell a shot, when I watch TV, that's a mini drone, and not because of the area, Sometimes they're difficult to control the shutter speed.
33:14
Carys Kaiser: So, I worked on, um, the latest series of Canal Boat Diaries.
33:19
Carys Kaiser: that was, oh, it was the best week of my career for a long time.
33:24
Carys Kaiser: Because it's such a lovely show to work on.
33:27
Carys Kaiser: talking about multi roles.
33:29
Carys Kaiser: Robbie Cummings, who is, you know, on the boat.
33:32
Carys Kaiser: It's his boat, it's his home.
33:34
David McClelland: spoken with Robbie before he's he's terrific so knowledgeable and such an interesting guy
33:40
Carys Kaiser: it is.
33:41
Carys Kaiser: And they welcomed me in because their drone operator, Phil, was otherwise tied up, so I did a cover.
33:46
Carys Kaiser: Because we're in the centre of Birmingham and we're on the side of canals, we can't really get the bigger drone out.
33:51
Carys Kaiser: We needed to use a smaller drone.
33:53
Carys Kaiser: And you can see where you're trying to control the aperture and the shutter, with the shutter speed and everything, there's a compromise.
33:59
Carys Kaiser: And when I watch those programs go out, you can see that little lag.
34:03
Carys Kaiser: But if I went to something that's a bit more high end and then I tried to use that mini drone, it's not going to measure up, so it's all to do with the different production values.
34:12
Carys Kaiser: And wind, you know, just to put a final point on it, that mini drone, the wobble, now the gimbals are great, but there's a point when actually you need that.
34:23
Carys Kaiser: more powerful drone, which it would be for me, I would go to the Mavic 3 series for the next step up.
34:29
Carys Kaiser: But need a greater qualification, more risk assessment, and also you're bound a little bit more about where you can take off.
34:36
David McClelland: And you are also going to be talking about drones at The Photography and Video Show in March as well.
34:42
David McClelland: I see there's a couple of sessions here talking about mini drone adventures and also the language of drones too.
34:49
Carys Kaiser: So mini drones I'm going to feature about what the adventure can look like without doing a qualification, how you get the best out of that mini drone.
34:59
Carys Kaiser: What you need to be looking for.
35:01
Carys Kaiser: I suppose I was inspired when I went to the Outer Hebrides and I saw this guy with a mini drone, and he just flew it up and down, up and down, and I thought, you've just, you've had a lot of fun, but you've missed an awful lot of things that you could have done, and you could have a really good adventure, and a little film at home to show, or on your social media, so that's what that's about.
35:21
Carys Kaiser: And then the next one is about the language of drones, so, As a camera operator, or a videographer, we have a lot of terminology, medium close up, close up, GV, so general view, we've got all of that, but we don't have that language when we're flying a drone, so I run this course that is quite in depth with TV directors and executives or storytellers and I show them what we could talk about and how we can communicate.
35:49
Carys Kaiser: Sometimes what happens is when you start working with somebody new, they know what they want as a director or a producer.
35:56
Carys Kaiser: And you know where you can give it to them, but there's this like disparity between, I'll get things like, Could you do me the spinny?
36:03
Carys Kaiser: I don't know what that means.
36:04
Carys Kaiser: So.
36:05
Carys Kaiser: if we all have the language accessible, we wouldn't be as much kind of like miscommunication.
36:11
Carys Kaiser: So it's all about the language of drones and then how we're going to apply that to our shoots.
36:15
Carys Kaiser: So and then also looking at when's a drone shot, just a drone shot, because now we've talked about drones, oh everybody's got one, everyone's using one, I'm seeing now drone shots just for drone shots sake.
36:29
Carys Kaiser: It's just another angle.
36:30
Carys Kaiser: But a drone shot to me should be quite special and it's kind of like in the storytelling it's giving you that, it might be a breath, a pause.
36:40
Carys Kaiser: If you're watching a really good series, hard documentaries.
36:44
Carys Kaiser: The drone shot is that moment of a pause, and it might be for voiceover, or it could just be a little bit of silence, and then you've got that little bit of a moment, and it, it's part of the punctuation of storytelling.
36:56
Carys Kaiser: So that's, you know, a long way of going on about how I'm going to talk about the language of drones.
37:01
David McClelland: It's like any shot in a video sequence, really, isn't it?
37:05
David McClelland: It needs to be, or in an edit, it needs to be motivated.
37:10
David McClelland: There needs to be a reason for it to be there.
37:13
David McClelland: Not just, oh, we've just got five seconds to cover this thing, let's slap a drone shot in there.
37:19
David McClelland: That's often when it either won't work, the grammar of it, the convention won't work, or you are you're wasting an opportunity.
37:26
David McClelland: And I think that insight that you share there about a drone shot being a moment, a pause, perhaps, or just a punctuation point.
37:35
David McClelland: I think that's really interesting.
37:37
David McClelland: That sounds like a fascinating session that you have at the show there.
37:41
David McClelland: There's one thing I just want to land back on before we wrap up though, Carys.
37:46
David McClelland: You mentioned not only the TV production, video production but also the photography element as well.
37:52
David McClelland: And just looking around your website, I see some beautiful photographic images that look very clearly as though they've been taken with drones as well.
38:01
David McClelland: What can you tell us about that project?
38:03
Carys Kaiser: um, I have a continual project called A Girl From Above.
38:07
Carys Kaiser: What happened with that was, I'm doing loads of video.
38:10
Carys Kaiser: I see lots of people on Instagram with lots of photographs, and photographs on Instagram were the main thing then.
38:15
Carys Kaiser: And I was like, well, I could do some landscapes, so I did some landscape, and they were like, yeah, they're nice.
38:20
Carys Kaiser: And then I just took a photograph of a friend lying down, and I was like, oh, and she said, I hate pictures of myself, and she looked at them, and she was like, I really like these.
38:30
Carys Kaiser: And then this creative spark started to go, what happens if I tell stories, or I get people that don't like having pictures taken of themselves, then it got picked up by a couple of, blogs and things.
38:44
Carys Kaiser: And then, and at the time, nobody was really taking photographs of people with drones in, different scenarios.
38:52
Carys Kaiser: And then that has now become very popular.
38:55
Carys Kaiser: I'm not saying I invented it because I people were tagging me in pictures.
38:58
Carys Kaiser: Have you seen this?
38:59
Carys Kaiser: They're doing your thing.
39:00
Carys Kaiser: And I'm like, no, that's not my thing.
39:02
Carys Kaiser: We all started to go, oh, what can we do with these drones?
39:05
Carys Kaiser: So I started that project.
39:07
Carys Kaiser: And then I've got like other little projects that I'm constantly thinking about.
39:11
Carys Kaiser: How could you use this drone different in a stills capacity?
39:16
Carys Kaiser: And then that led to actually me getting some work doing, industrial building photography where I work for somebody and they take them, they process the pictures and what he does between me taking that photograph and him doing the edit is like, amazing.
39:30
Carys Kaiser: But, yeah, so I'm always doing things with a drone in a photography way.
39:34
Carys Kaiser: I mean, for me, in the ten years I've been flying.
39:38
Carys Kaiser: I never get bored of seeing drone shots, whether they're stills or video, because, to me, it's so exciting.
39:46
David McClelland: We'll leave it there, thank you very much indeed for your time.
39:48
Carys Kaiser: No, thank you David,
39:55
David McClelland: And you can catch up with Carys at The Photography and Video Show, talking about her adventures with many drones, the language of drones and about women in the film business.
40:02
David McClelland: We've also put a link to her website in the show notes.
40:11
David McClelland: Rightio James, let's jump back on to the news train and it's very easy for some of us, particularly those of us in the media, to get excited about the flagship cameras, those with the biggest specs, biggest price tags.
40:25
David McClelland: But the reality, as both you and I know, is that for the camera buying public, those flagship cameras aren't necessarily the biggest sellers.
40:34
David McClelland: Now, you guys have found some data, haven't you, on 2023's best selling cameras in Japan?
40:41
David McClelland: And there were some, I don't know, maybe surprises, maybe not surprises, but certainly some interesting observations in there, I think it's fair to say.
40:48
David McClelland: So, tell me where this data comes from and maybe we can just take a look through this, list of the top 10 selling cameras there and just, consider what intel we can draw from it.
41:00
James Artaius: Absolutely.
41:01
James Artaius: So this is data that comes from BCN Retail in Japan.
41:04
James Artaius: And to sort of give a shorthand of what that is, it's an organization in Japan, it's a retail organization, that aggregates sales from Japanese retail.
41:14
James Artaius: Now once upon a time it covered something like 80 percent of Japanese retail, nowadays it's probably 50 60%.
41:19
James Artaius: But it is specifically the big electronic specialists and the big camera specialists that this data comes from.
41:27
James Artaius: So it kind of excludes or doesn't take into account smaller independents or, you know, the Japanese equivalent of a mom and pop shop, if you like.
41:34
James Artaius: But it would be the equivalent in the US of saying it's aggregating sales from B& H and Adorama.
41:39
James Artaius: Or in the UK of saying it's somebody who looks at WEX, Park Cameras.
41:42
James Artaius: You know, it's, it's, it's pretty much authentic to what the, the general behavior is.
41:48
James Artaius: But yes, as you say, the data, the 10 best selling cameras in Japan of last year.
41:54
James Artaius: On DCW, I'm asked a lot, no doubt you are as well, what's the best camera?
41:59
James Artaius: Well, the question we really need to ask is what's the best camera for me, or for you, for whoever's asking question.
42:04
James Artaius: So, you and I might get most excited by flagships, and you know, 100 megapixel Hasselblads, and this, that, and the other.
42:09
James Artaius: Cameras that shoot 120 frames a second.
42:12
James Artaius: Most folks don't need that.
42:14
James Artaius: For most folks, that's overkill, it's needless, it's pointless.
42:17
James Artaius: They need something that's a little bit more utilitarian, maybe a bit more straightforward.
42:21
James Artaius: So, what, what are the 10 best selling cameras?
42:24
James Artaius: Well Surprisingly, perhaps not surprisingly, there are no flagship cameras in this list whatsoever.
42:31
James Artaius: What there are an abundance of are vlogging cameras.
42:35
James Artaius: Entry level cameras.
42:36
James Artaius: There's quite a few retro styled cameras well.
42:40
James Artaius: This is something that's becoming an increasing, don't want to say genre, an increasing segment of the camera industry is cameras that specifically look cool.
42:47
James Artaius: They take good images as well, but kind of, first and foremost, they are designed to be aesthetically pleasing.
42:52
James Artaius: shall we start in, let's do reverse order, let's do a countdown.
42:54
James Artaius: So the, the tenth best selling camera was the Sony a7 IV.
42:57
James Artaius: And that is
42:58
David McClelland: I would say, the highest end camera on this entire list.
43:02
James Artaius: it's the most advanced quote unquote.
43:04
James Artaius: It's the most, you know, the most exciting in technological terms.
43:08
James Artaius: And it's the least, you know, the least popular of this list, the Sony A7IV.
43:12
David McClelland: Is it the only full frame on the list?
43:14
James Artaius: it is the only full frame, The rest of the list is APS C and quite a few micro four thirds as I've just been sort of, uh, prosthetizing.
43:22
James Artaius: and that's the next camera, so number nine and number eight.
43:25
James Artaius: We've got two Olympus cameras, two micro four thirds bodies.
43:28
James Artaius: Uh, number nine is the EM10 Mark IV.
43:30
James Artaius: That's the kind of, uh, an SLR styled retro looking camera.
43:34
James Artaius: It's a beginner camera or, uh, it's, you know, it's, it's one that you might give to somebody who wants their first mirrorless camera.
43:39
James Artaius: Who wants to learn, understand photography.
43:40
James Artaius: So again, entry level below that, a number eight, it's the Olympus Pen EPL 10.
43:45
James Artaius: And this camera was released.
43:46
James Artaius: Gosh, I can't even remember how many years ago.
43:49
James Artaius: It's probably going back to 2019.
43:52
James Artaius: Possibly.
43:53
James Artaius: It's an older, an older camera.
43:55
James Artaius: But yeah, again, entry level vlogging, uh, blogging style camera, lifestyle camera, um, in Asia there's definitely a market, I can't remember the Japanese name for it, it's basically, it's aimed at, um, teenage girls, uh, early, early 20s sort of people who are fashionistas, I suppose we call them over here, sort it girls, if you like, and these kind of cameras are very popular with that segment of the market, Below that, at number seven, the Nikon ZF C.
44:21
James Artaius: Again, a retro camera.
44:23
James Artaius: An intentionally throwback looking, I've sort of comedically called them perhaps hipster cameras, because they're very stylish and snazzy.
44:30
James Artaius: Um, very capable APS C camera, but again, an APS C camera.
44:35
James Artaius: Doesn't do anything game changing, but it looks great.
44:39
James Artaius: Below that, another Olympus Pen EP7.
44:41
James Artaius: Uh, that's my daily drive.
44:43
James Artaius: I actually have mine with me at moment.
44:45
James Artaius: Um, I love this camera.
44:46
James Artaius: It has a little body again.
44:47
James Artaius: Another retro styled body, micro four thirds, 20 megapixel sensor.
44:51
James Artaius: Doesn't do anything super exciting.
44:53
James Artaius: It's just little and great.
44:54
James Artaius: Uh, below that, number five.
44:56
James Artaius: It's the Canon EOS M.
44:57
James Artaius: M50 Mark II.
44:59
James Artaius: So, as you may remember, David, this is the EOS M system that Canon killed off unceremoniously last year.
45:05
David McClelland: I mean, still a stonkingly good camera.
45:08
David McClelland: I was genuinely surprised to see this in the list.
45:12
David McClelland: Particularly, as you say, that it's just been killed off by Canon.
45:16
James Artaius: It's just been killed off you know, it's very easy to say, well, you know, that's a dead system.
45:21
James Artaius: Let's write it off.
45:22
James Artaius: But honestly, if you look at the ecosystem of lenses for that camera, it doesn't need any more lenses than exist.
45:29
James Artaius: It's decently supported by Canon, it's widely supported by third parties.
45:33
James Artaius: So you've got a, yes, EOS M as a, as a, as a product line no longer exists.
45:38
James Artaius: Well guess what?
45:39
James Artaius: That means there's a load of great bargains to be had.
45:41
James Artaius: And it's got a complete, fully fleshed out lens system.
45:43
James Artaius: So if you want a small, pocketable camera with a load of great lenses, you can also use your Canon EF lenses on it as well.
45:49
James Artaius: So you're looking for a bargain, that's a great thing to do.
45:51
James Artaius: But, you know, even without that taken into account, the EOS was the most recent of that line.
45:57
James Artaius: And it was, you know, the fifth best selling camera in Japan last year.
46:00
David McClelland: Yeah.
46:01
David McClelland: Arguably, would you say that the two cameras that come in at number four and number three, also Canon cameras, are maybe what Canon would be pushing you towards instead of the M50?
46:15
James Artaius: Absolutely, yes.
46:16
James Artaius: So the EOS R50 at number 3 is the direct replacement for the M50.
46:21
James Artaius: So very, very similar, uh, in fact almost the same dimensions and body size.
46:26
James Artaius: It's the lenses that are slightly bigger because, um, On the RF mount without you getting too convoluted.
46:32
James Artaius: Canons RF mount is a PSC and full frame.
46:35
James Artaius: So even though the lenses will be inherently smaller, they do have to fit a full frame, uh, cover the full frame image size.
46:41
James Artaius: So they are slightly bigger than the EOS M, but yes, so the EOS R 50, uh, and at number four, the R 10.
46:47
David McClelland: I mean, some would say that Canon might feel justified, uh, despite the fact that the M50 Mark II appears in the list, it might feel justified at having sunset the M line given that the R50 and the R10 rank above it still.
47:04
James Artaius: Yes, absolutely.
47:05
James Artaius: And I think it's, it's an interesting because, you know, Canon launched its new mirrorless system, the EOS R slash the RF mount system back in 2018.
47:13
James Artaius: And at the time, if you listened to the journalists, you listened to the Geeks.
47:17
James Artaius: If you listen to the Reddit people, the really passionate, knowledgeable, enthusiastic folks, they would say, Oh, this is, this is instant death for EOS M, you know, there's that, that system's completely redundant.
47:26
James Artaius: And here we are all these years later, and that, that the EOS M system is still selling well, which kind of speaks to that fact that, Hey.
47:33
James Artaius: As exciting as new cameras are and advanced cameras are, they're not the be all and end all.
47:37
James Artaius: They just really aren't.
47:38
James Artaius: There's, there's life beyond, what's new and shiny.
47:41
James Artaius: We look at what's at number two.
47:42
James Artaius: It's the Sony A6400.
47:44
James Artaius: Uh, again, another APS C system.
47:46
James Artaius: And A lot of life in it, as we see here, and what's really, to me, I'm kind of surprised, and not surprised at the same time, at number one, is the Sony ZV E10, and this is Sony's new line, they're called Vlog Cam in Japan, that's how they're branded, but here they are Vlogging Cam, which is Z Vlogging Cameras, uh, specifically aimed and they're The influencer generation, the content creation crowd.
48:12
James Artaius: Uh, if somebody says to me, what camera do I get to be a YouTuber?
48:15
James Artaius: I'd probably point them to one of the ZV cameras.
48:17
James Artaius: And the ZV E10 is, you know, as we see the most popular one here.
48:21
James Artaius: And there's been an interesting shift over the last couple of years where.
48:25
James Artaius: The comment for a while was, Oh, where are the, where are the beginner cameras?
48:28
James Artaius: Where are the cheap and cheap?
48:29
James Artaius: Where are the starter?
48:30
James Artaius: Well, the market behavior, what we had once considered to be beginner cameras, that segment has now been filled by vlogging cameras.
48:39
James Artaius: Because increasingly beginners, what we would call beginners or newcomers, maybe more accurately, these days, are people who want to get into vlogging, not necessarily into photography or hybrid shooting.
48:50
James Artaius: So I think this is a real marking, a changing of the guard here.
48:54
James Artaius: The most popular camera in Japan, you know, the home, the home state of all of the big camera manufacturers.
49:00
James Artaius: The best selling camera was a vlogging camera.
49:03
James Artaius: Not a super advanced one at that, you know, there are other, there are other vlogging and video devices that are much more clever than this camera, but it does the job.
49:11
James Artaius: Decent price point, very capable, nice and small.
49:14
James Artaius: What more do you need?
49:15
James Artaius: And it's just, it's just a reminder to us all, you know, 100 megapixel cameras, 120 frames per second cameras, all well and good.
49:22
James Artaius: What do people need?
49:23
James Artaius: What are they buying?
49:24
James Artaius: And I think this is a bit of an eye opener for a lot of people.
49:27
David McClelland: And maybe that goes some way to justifying the releases that we saw in 2023 from Sony.
49:34
David McClelland: It seemed as though every month there was a new camera that fitted into this, into this vlogger sphere, whether it's the ZVE 10, which I think came out in late 22 or the ZVE one, which, uh, that that was the full frame
49:48
James Artaius: I believe that's the, yes, yes.
49:49
David McClelland: Yeah, I have to look this up every time, I think the E10 was the APS C, sorry, ah, yes the E10 was the APS C and the E1 was the full frame but they're both the interchangeable lens cameras,
50:03
James Artaius: and I think, I think the last time I was on the show, we, I even made the same remark about another, you know, Sony's, Sony's naming conventions are very confusing.
50:12
James Artaius: It's one of the criticisms I have of the system.
50:13
James Artaius: If you're a newcomer, you know, you, it's, it's an alphabet soup of which one, which model you want.
50:17
James Artaius: kind of need someone to send you a link and you click on that and you buy that one.
50:20
James Artaius: But trying to recommend them based on the name alone is quite tricky.
50:23
James Artaius: But despite that, despite this alphabet soup of model names and model numbers.
50:29
James Artaius: We have, you know, this, this system that's not brand new, uh, indeed the, the ZV E10 Mark II is rumored be announced at some point this year, maybe at CP maybe we'll see it in March at the Photography and Video Show, um, but yes, so it's not even brand new, again, there are many cameras with much more firepower, much cleverer, but this is what's selling the most, and Yeah, it's, uh, it's a change.
50:51
James Artaius: I think there's a real changing of the guard.
50:52
James Artaius: I think the next couple of years we're going to see more and more of these vlogging devices.
50:55
James Artaius: And yeah, to your point, David, Sony has really doubled down on this.
50:59
James Artaius: And there was some statistic last year where, you know, vlogging cameras made up something crazy like 60 percent of Sony's sales.
51:07
David McClelland: And finally, on our February train journey, let's visit the guard's van at the back.
51:14
David McClelland: And, well, take a look.
51:15
David McClelland: If you just, lift up that suitcase and just pull that coat out of the way, you'll see this little box there with some, bricks in it.
51:22
David McClelland: And, well, I don't know.
51:24
David McClelland: If you were expecting to see this, but, Lego has just released its Lego Polaroid One Step SX 70 camera.
51:35
David McClelland: Yes, you can build a Polaroid camera out of Lego.
51:39
David McClelland: It's got 516 pieces.
51:42
David McClelland: It includes an optical viewfinder.
51:45
David McClelland: It's got a film package containing not one, not two, but three photos.
51:50
David McClelland: It's It's even got an exposure compensation dial, and yep, just looking on the corner there, it's got a little price tag of 80.
51:58
David McClelland: Now, I should say, this isn't real film that this camera takes, and it doesn't churn out real photos.
52:07
David McClelland: Well, they are photos, but they're not photos that you've just, uh, from exposures you've just captured.
52:12
David McClelland: Uh, but the shutter release button does release one of these photos, and they are Beautiful, blocky bits of art, including one of the Polaroid founder.
52:22
David McClelland: I think this is an, a lovely, lovely gift as a birthday presenter.
52:27
David McClelland: Mother's Day gift, father's Day gift, whatever, and it's all come outta something called, uh, Lego Ideas where the Lego building public, which includes me, can share ideas for new builds, and people can vote on their favorites, and it becomes a bit of a crowdsourcing thing and a popularity thing, but ultimately.
52:46
David McClelland: the best ideas can become real products and actual things that people can buy.
52:50
David McClelland: That's where this came out of and looking on the website, I can see that there is a Sony Walkman up there well that's doing particularly well.
52:59
David McClelland: I don't know if this floats your boat or not.
53:01
David McClelland: I know you love a bit of the older, uh, instant camera action, but James, if you could build any camera out of Lego, what would it be?
53:11
James Artaius: you know what I am, I'm as, as, as we probably alluded to here, I'm a, I'm a big uh, Olympus slash o om system person and I'd love a, I'd love a Lego om one classic film Om one, not the modern muralist one.
53:24
James Artaius: But I would love an old, and that's what I love about this Lego Ideas platform because we've seen, we've certainly covered them on digital camera world a few times.
53:30
James Artaius: The different pictures they've been over the years.
53:32
James Artaius: You know, can we have a Lego like it?
53:34
James Artaius: Can we have a Lego Pentax K one, we have a Lego, this, that, or the other.
53:37
James Artaius: Um, and I think this one.
53:39
James Artaius: Yeah, I was going to say colorful.
53:40
James Artaius: It's literally very colorful, this product, but it's one of the more colorful instant camera Polaroid.
53:44
James Artaius: It's a brand everyone knows.
53:46
James Artaius: Um, it's very gratifying.
53:48
James Artaius: You've got these three prints that pop out or I should say, prints in air quotes that pop out, including one of Edwin Land, the inventor, the founder of Polaroid.
53:55
James Artaius: Um, and it's just a brilliant thing.
53:57
James Artaius: I think you mentioned it.
53:58
James Artaius: This would be a great gift for a father on Father's Day or a great gift for this is one of those things.
54:03
James Artaius: Every Christmas on the website, we have a little bit of a, uh, A wrestling match.
54:07
James Artaius: What's a great gift for photographers?
54:08
James Artaius: Because you know, buying a gift for a photographer is a really blimmin difficult thing to do because photographers really want lenses and cameras.
54:13
James Artaius: We don't want um, lens, a mug shaped like camera lenses and things.
54:17
James Artaius: But this is a great gift for a photographer.
54:19
James Artaius: This is, you know, it's, it's 80 which, it's not cheap but it's not expensive as photography stuff goes.
54:25
James Artaius: Uh, it can sit on your camera shelf, you know, put it together with your kids, have a nice play with it.
54:29
James Artaius: Um, I would be all over this.
54:30
James Artaius: Also the Sony Walkman as well, I would be, you know, that's, that, would be next in my shopping cart.
54:35
James Artaius: It's
54:35
David McClelland: And it'd be nice if that did work, if it was functional, even in some limited way, but hey, let's see.
54:41
David McClelland: Um, I was thinking about what camera I would build.
54:45
David McClelland: And, uh, well, I come from more of a, uh, video background.
54:50
David McClelland: Um, and I think it would be one of two cameras.
54:53
David McClelland: So one of them would be the, uh, JVC GRC 1, which is a VHS C.
54:59
David McClelland: Uh, it's a shoulder mounted camera, I think from 1984, as seen.
55:05
David McClelland: In Back to the Future, Marty McFly films Doc Brown on this beautifully coloured, um, shoulder mounted camera.
55:13
David McClelland: And I think it also, well, I know it also got a bit of a revival in Stranger Things, which makes it instantly cool to my kids now.
55:19
David McClelland: Um, or, equally iconic, I would argue, though I don't know about film references to this one, Uh, it's the RCA VHS camcorder, which, again, is a thing of the past.
55:32
David McClelland: Beauty.
55:33
David McClelland: Either of those, I think.
55:35
David McClelland: And honestly, I would want them in LEGO to be real sized, so that I can put them on my shoulder.
55:41
David McClelland: That does up the brick count somewhat.
55:44
David McClelland: And it might want to be the LEGO Duplo, like the big bricks rather than little bricks, perhaps.
55:49
David McClelland: Um, but, uh, yeah.
55:50
David McClelland: Either, either one of those I'd be very happy to build.
55:52
David McClelland: If you want to suggest, maybe build and suggest your own Lego model, and maybe see it upvoted and end up as a real product, then ideas.
56:02
David McClelland: lego.
56:02
David McClelland: com is your place to go.
56:10
David McClelland: Our train today terminates in Birmingham, rather aptly, were patiently waiting on the platform for us is Hazel Soper from The Photography and Video Show.
56:23
David McClelland: It's been a long 18 months since the last in person Photography Show back in September 2022.
56:29
David McClelland: Talk to me about what visitors to our March 2024 show can expect to help bring them up to speed.
56:36
Hazel Soper: doesn't really seem like 18 months.
56:38
Hazel Soper: the time seems to go quicker and quicker these days, doesn't it?
56:41
Hazel Soper: only six weeks out now, believe it or not.
56:44
Hazel Soper: we're very excited, but very, very busy as I'm, as I'm sure you can imagine.
56:49
Hazel Soper: This year we've moved back to March and I think all really delighted about that actually.
56:54
Hazel Soper: We've heard across the industry, particularly from the professional side, that is a preferred time season of photography and video.
57:00
Hazel Soper: So we're pleased to be able to bring that back to visitors as a starting point.
57:05
Hazel Soper: We've got seven different, stages and theatres on the show floor this year.
57:09
Hazel Soper: We've got the old favourites, so Behind the Lens.
57:11
Hazel Soper: Photo Live in the new form of Photo Studio and the studio which is more video based, now called the InMotion Studio.
57:20
Hazel Soper: as those who have been before know, we always have a new stage and this year our new stage is called Shoot to Inspire.
57:26
David McClelland: hmm.
57:26
David McClelland: Mmm, what's that all about?
57:28
Hazel Soper: a bit more of everything really, a bit more of inspiration.
57:31
Hazel Soper: I have to say, this year we had so many So many people, asking to speak at the show, that we have had to just do things a little bit differently.
57:40
Hazel Soper: Uh, it's a wonderful place to be in.
57:43
Hazel Soper: Um, we do have the creator playground again.
57:45
Hazel Soper: We found that that resonated really well with the audience, And that's just a great area for creating content and, as you know, just practicing the skills that you've learned.
57:55
Hazel Soper: Our kind of, our idea behind that was a bit more of a journey.
57:58
Hazel Soper: So last year was, uh, features kind of dotted around and this year it's much more of a start here, finish there.
58:06
Hazel Soper: really exciting theme, we've been working really hard on that, so, we're also going to be working with, a company called Creativity Hub Events on some interactive sets.
58:16
Hazel Soper: So we'll have, displays, we'll have models.
58:19
Hazel Soper: There will be, opportunities again for people to practice what they've learnt, but also to get a bit more involved Part of our, objectives with the Photography Show has always been to build on that experience and make sure that people just have a really good immersive experience at the show.
58:35
David McClelland: When my family came to the show, September 2022, my two young girls were particularly taken with the, creator playground.
58:43
David McClelland: And, well, we have a family calendar, a little bit of McClelland family secrets here.
58:48
David McClelland: We have a family calendar that we put together all of our highlights photos from around the family.
58:54
David McClelland: And then we send that to other family members around Christmas as Christmas presents.
58:57
David McClelland: And, uh, Not gonna lie, there were more than one of the kind of full page images that were taken of us as a family.
59:06
David McClelland: in various of the setups at the Creator Playground.
59:09
David McClelland: Just looking at some of the other stages there, of course, the Analog Showcase.
59:13
David McClelland: Analog photography is something that we've been speaking about here on the podcast.
59:17
David McClelland: And also I notice on the program overview page on the website, specialist masterclasses too.
59:23
David McClelland: What can you tell us about those?
59:25
Hazel Soper: This is something that we've brought in new this year.
59:27
Hazel Soper: we wanted to, bring some really high profile speakers in who could do something that was a bit more in depth, a bit more intimate.
59:34
Hazel Soper: So a smaller kind of group experience, And really give people the opportunity to come and be with one of those high level pros for a photo shoot or for, you know, some editing.
59:45
Hazel Soper: So we've got Julianne Cost, who's principal evangelist for Adobe.
59:49
Hazel Soper: She's going to do a more in depth editing session.
59:52
Hazel Soper: We've got Fari Yavari doing a fine arts photoshoot session.
59:57
Hazel Soper: And then also Kelly Brown doing a photoshoot session as well.
1:00:01
Hazel Soper: Again, really excited about that because it's the first time we've done those specialist masterclasses.
1:00:06
Hazel Soper: They are booking up very quickly as well.
1:00:08
David McClelland: Julianne, of course, is an absolute wizard when it comes to Adobe stuff And Kelly, we featured here on the podcast last year, and she is incredibly inspirational in not only the work that she does, but the business that she does.
1:00:22
David McClelland: The business is that she's built up around that as well.
1:00:25
David McClelland: And speaking of speakers, I know you are still shaping the program a few weeks out, as you say, but what can you tell us about the professionals, the other professionals that you've lined up so far for this year's show?
1:00:37
Hazel Soper: We've got people like Scott Kelby.
1:00:40
Hazel Soper: he Actually invited himself to the show.
1:00:43
Hazel Soper: He wanted to come so
1:00:44
David McClelland: He can do that though,
1:00:45
Hazel Soper: sure he wouldn't mind me saying that.
1:00:47
Hazel Soper: We've really gone for a very wide selection across the whole creative image making industry this year.
1:00:55
Hazel Soper: So we've got the likes of Joe Cornish, that's through Imaging.
1:01:00
Hazel Soper: Tim Flack, who is very famous for his wildlife shots against the backgrounds.
1:01:07
Hazel Soper: we have.
1:01:08
Hazel Soper: like Nigel Danson, and Thomas Heaton, who are both incredibly well known photographers as well within their own right.
1:01:15
Hazel Soper: people like Elise Swopes and Trashhand, who are coming over from America, very well known creators.
1:01:21
Hazel Soper: Trashhand's doing something on, architectural photography, which is really his, thing.
1:01:27
Hazel Soper: Elise is going to look at getting into content creation.
1:01:29
Hazel Soper: I think we, we'd class her as one of the original influencers the boom of influencers.
1:01:34
Hazel Soper: So we're really interested to see what, what she says.
1:01:38
Hazel Soper: we've got people like, Garrent Radford, who is very well known for his, macro.
1:01:42
Hazel Soper: He's one of our regulars and, frankly, everyone loves him, Same with people like Gavin Hoey.
1:01:47
Hazel Soper: We've also got new people in, like Kelly, Kelly and Farrah, they're both coming over from Australia actually.
1:01:54
Hazel Soper: a lady called Donatella Nicolini, who's coming over from Italy to do, newborn and maternity.
1:01:59
Hazel Soper: and we've got a couple on, the video side, which I'm really excited about.
1:02:04
Hazel Soper: the first is, a colorist from, Jean Clément's team.
1:02:08
Hazel Soper: So Jean Clément has done a huge, huge number of feature films, and one of his colorists is coming along to do a session with us.
1:02:16
Hazel Soper: He unfortunately couldn't make it because he's editing something like James Bond or, and we've also got a guy called Dan Thornburn who won the Sony Future Filmmaker Awards last year, who is a short film director So, lots and lots of people to see.
1:02:33
David McClelland: We've been very fortunate to speak to, healthy handful and a bit, of speakers and guests here on the podcast as well, I mean, you mentioned a few of them there, Kelly, of course, and, uh, Ben Moore, of course, many visitors, Hazel, come to the show with the intent of getting some hands on time with the kit that they might well be about to buy.
1:02:52
David McClelland: So, what can you tell us about the brands, the exhibitors and the retailers at the show?
1:02:58
Hazel Soper: So retailers, uh, I'll start with the, start with the last question.
1:03:02
Hazel Soper: retailers we've got WEX photo video, London camera exchange and camera world, on the show floor again.
1:03:08
Hazel Soper: In terms of the hands on element, I've spoken to a huge number of brands who've recently launched various kits which they're very excited about bringing.
1:03:18
Hazel Soper: So, it will be no surprise that there will be some things there that people don't yet know about and some tech there that people, Will have known about within the last six months, but may not have actually had a chance to get close and and personal as it were, which is really exciting.
1:03:33
Hazel Soper: I think the The manufacturers, the Lumix's and the Canon's and the Sony's of the world are really, really packing some punch with what they're going to do at the show.
1:03:43
Hazel Soper: Canon for certain they've overhauled their stand, they're slightly different direction in what they're focusing on.
1:03:50
Hazel Soper: Obviously cameras will absolutely be their mainstay of, of what to see on the stand, they've got a really exciting, schedule, for their spotlight stage coming out.
1:03:59
Hazel Soper: same with Nikon, Nikon school stage, uh, schedule's nearly finished and that will be up on our site fairly soon as well.
1:04:05
Hazel Soper: And Nikon are doing things a little bit differently, so, we're really delighted that we've got some exhibitors returning from, the days of 2019.
1:04:15
Hazel Soper: Lumix will be on the show floor, we've got Capture One coming and that's, that's the first time they'll have done the show.
1:04:20
Hazel Soper: a couple of others, which I can't talk about just yet.
1:04:23
Hazel Soper: just had, uh, Lumesca sign up.
1:04:26
Hazel Soper: And they're, they're bringing along the likes of Calibrite and a new brand that they're distributing called Hobolight.
1:04:32
Hazel Soper: know
1:04:33
David McClelland: Where is it best to keep across any show developments and announcements between now and the 16th to the 19th of March?
1:04:40
Hazel Soper: Well, all of our announcements or latest announcements will go out on our social channels.
1:04:45
Hazel Soper: So that's predominantly our, our Facebook and Instagram.
1:04:49
Hazel Soper: We do also have announcements going out on TikTok now, which is a very new avenue for me.
1:04:54
Hazel Soper: I have to say, The website is always.
1:04:57
Hazel Soper: Up to date as well, so any, any new sessions that we've confirmed or any new speakers we announce on the website as well and that's where you'll find the most accurate and up to date schedules and exhibitor list
1:05:08
David McClelland: and the website, photographyshow.
1:05:10
David McClelland: com, that is your best place to get tickets as well.
1:05:13
Hazel Soper: That is indeed.
1:05:15
David McClelland: Jolly good.
1:05:15
David McClelland: In which case, I'll let you get back to planning more content, planning more speakers for the show.
1:05:22
David McClelland: Thank you very much indeed for joining us here on the podcast and, well, look forward to seeing you in Birmingham in just a few weeks time.
1:05:29
Hazel Soper: Absolutely.
1:05:29
Hazel Soper: Thank you, David.
1:05:34
David McClelland: We are almost out of time.
1:05:36
David McClelland: If you enjoyed this month's show then please do all of the things that podcasts normally ask you to do.
1:05:40
David McClelland: Hit subscribe, tell your friends, share with your local camera club and hey even leave us a review.
1:05:47
David McClelland: There are Photography and Video Show deals and competitions on the socials, on insta we are at the photography show, search us up on facebook too.
1:05:57
David McClelland: James, as always, thank you so much for joining us.
1:06:01
David McClelland: Uh, where can we best, keep up with your hot takes online?
1:06:05
James Artaius: Keep up with my hot takes, uh, as ever at digitalcameraworld.
1:06:08
James Artaius: com.
1:06:09
James Artaius: We're a great place to go for news, rumors.
1:06:12
James Artaius: We've got some great reviews, um, some opinions.
1:06:14
James Artaius: If you, if you like the sort of things I've been spurting today, you'll, you know, you'll have the hair raised on the back of your neck by all sorts of other things.
1:06:20
James Artaius: Um, we've got some great buying guides.
1:06:21
James Artaius: If you are looking for a gift photographer in your life, great place to go.
1:06:25
James Artaius: And, uh, yeah, as we lead up to, uh, The Photography and Video Show, we're going to be ramping up our coverage.
1:06:29
James Artaius: What you can look forward to, information on the kind of Talks and the speakers.
1:06:33
James Artaius: You can go and listen to workshops.
1:06:35
James Artaius: Um, so you can really go to the event in Birmingham and actually get some good value for money because we'll tell you all the things to go straight to where you want to queue up for the people you want to talk to the people on listen to.
1:06:44
James Artaius: So yeah, head over to digital camera world.
1:06:46
James Artaius: com and, uh, and get the inside scoop.
1:06:48
David McClelland: And as well as keeping up with you online, we'll be able to see you IRL at the aforementioned Photography and Video Show from the 16th to the 19th of March in Birmingham, won't we?
1:07:00
James Artaius: will indeed, yes.
1:07:01
James Artaius: Look for the slightly disheveled man with long hair.
1:07:03
James Artaius: He's probably looking for the nearest coffee outlet.
1:07:05
James Artaius: But yes, if you do see me, please come and say hello.
1:07:08
James Artaius: I know David's going to be there with us as well.
1:07:09
James Artaius: Come and have a chat with us.
1:07:11
James Artaius: Talk to us about the podcast.
1:07:12
James Artaius: Tell us what you liked and didn't like.
1:07:13
James Artaius: But yes, we'll be there live and in person, so come and have it out with me if you disagree with me on Micro Four Thirds or anything else I've been talking about lately.
1:07:20
David McClelland: I think that slightly dishevelled man with long hair looking for coffee, that might describe both of us come March.
1:07:26
David McClelland: But let's see how we get on, see if I can schedule in a haircut between now and then anyway.
1:07:31
David McClelland: But for now, James, thank you very much indeed, and thank you all for joining us wherever you are joining us from.
1:07:38
David McClelland: Until next time, bye bye.
1:07:51
James Artaius: Boom!
1:07:52
David McClelland: and roll.