Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Devin Williams December Patreon Sampler

Transcript

Devin Williams December Patreon Sampler · The Path Went Chilly

0:30
Speaker 1: Welcome to this month's Pathway Chili Bonus Patriticsclusive Minniesot, I'm Robin,
0:36
Speaker 1: I'm Jules.
0:37
Speaker 2: And I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this month's case.
0:43
Speaker 3: May eighth, nineteen ninety five, Coconino County, Arizona. Twenty eight
0:49
Speaker 3: year old Devin Williams, a long hauled truck driver from Kansas,
0:53
Speaker 3: recklessly drives his semi trailer truck into Tonto National Forest
0:57
Speaker 3: before it becomes stuck in some mud. After Devin exits
1:01
Speaker 3: the truck, witnesses see him exhibiting bizarre behavior before he
1:06
Speaker 3: takes off into the woods and disappears. Devon had been
1:09
Speaker 3: in the midst of transporting a shipment from California to
1:12
Speaker 3: Kansas until he drove over sixty miles off course for
1:16
Speaker 3: unknown reasons. Two years later, Devon's skull is discovered near
1:21
Speaker 3: the bottom of a cliff, but no one can figure
1:23
Speaker 3: out his cause of death or why he wound up
1:25
Speaker 3: in the forest to begin with.
1:28
Speaker 1: After that, the path went chilly. So on this month's
1:31
Speaker 1: bonus episode, we're going to be covering a very odd case,
1:35
Speaker 1: the unexplained nineteen ninety five death of Devon Williams. This
1:39
Speaker 1: is the story of a long cal truck driver and
1:41
Speaker 1: family man with a loving wife and three children, who
1:44
Speaker 1: lived a seemingly ordinary, uneventful life until he suddenly found
1:48
Speaker 1: himself at the center of an unsaw mystery. Devon was
1:51
Speaker 1: in the midst of transporting a shipment from California to
1:54
Speaker 1: his home state of Kansas when he inexplicably wound up
1:57
Speaker 1: driving his truck into Arizona's Taunto National Forest. This was
2:02
Speaker 1: an area where eighteen wheeler trucks would not normally go,
2:05
Speaker 1: and a number of witnesses would see Devon exit his
2:07
Speaker 1: truck and take off into the woods before he vanished
2:10
Speaker 1: without a trace. While the initial search efforts turned up nothing,
2:14
Speaker 1: Devon's skull would be discovered in the area two years later,
2:17
Speaker 1: but the rest of his remains were never found and
2:19
Speaker 1: no one could figure out how he died. As you
2:22
Speaker 1: probably know, the trail went cold and the path went
2:24
Speaker 1: Chile have always had a fascination with cases in which
2:27
Speaker 1: victims traveled to places they have no reason to be
2:30
Speaker 1: at before they wind up missing or dead under very
2:33
Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances, and the Devon Williams case is definitely one
2:37
Speaker 1: of the strangest examples of this. Since there was no
2:39
Speaker 1: logical reason for him to divert from his original route
2:42
Speaker 1: and drive into this forest, it's certainly possible that he
2:45
Speaker 1: suffered some sort of mental breakdown or medical issue. That
2:48
Speaker 1: everyone who interacted with Devon prior to this incident said
2:52
Speaker 1: they did not notice anything unusual about him. This case
2:55
Speaker 1: is so baffling that, yes, aliens were even brought up
2:58
Speaker 1: as a serious possibility to explain what happened. And you
3:01
Speaker 1: can bet we're going to discuss that angle on this episode.
3:04
Speaker 2: Awesome, bring it on. I love cases like this where
3:08
Speaker 2: you go like what happened? Because we have Devin who
3:11
Speaker 2: seemingly is just doing his normal routine job.
3:14
Speaker 1: Right.
3:14
Speaker 2: This is the absolute ordinary days for him, where he's
3:19
Speaker 2: trucking and doing all these things. He's a family man,
3:21
Speaker 2: there's really nothing eventful going on, and then all of
3:25
Speaker 2: a sudden, he's part of this unsolved mystery. Now, Robin,
3:28
Speaker 2: you said everyone said he was fine when he left,
3:32
Speaker 2: But Jules, you mentioned that there was a witness who
3:34
Speaker 2: said that they observed bizarre behavior from him. So do
3:38
Speaker 2: we have multiple people saying, look, there could have really
3:42
Speaker 2: been this mental distress happening towards the very end of
3:45
Speaker 2: his life, or Robin, it sounds like you're alluding to
3:48
Speaker 2: perhaps he had been abducted or experienced something traumatic that
3:52
Speaker 2: could have also triggered a kind of break for him.
3:57
Speaker 1: Well, all the people in the forest said he was
3:58
Speaker 1: hiving bizarre behavior, but it was all the people who
4:01
Speaker 1: interacted it with him, like when he was doing his
4:03
Speaker 1: truck route before he arrived in the forest that said,
4:05
Speaker 1: everything seemed completely normal with them. So it just seemed
4:08
Speaker 1: like this came completely out of left field, that something
4:11
Speaker 1: happened which just compelled him to drive to this spot
4:13
Speaker 1: and started acting strangely.
4:16
Speaker 3: Our story begins in nineteen ninety five, and our central
4:20
Speaker 3: figure is twenty nine year old Devin Williams, who lives
4:23
Speaker 3: in the small town of Americus, Kansas, with his wife,
4:26
Speaker 3: Mary Lou and their three children. Devon works as a
4:30
Speaker 3: long distance truck driver from Flint Hills Transportation, Incorporated, and
4:34
Speaker 3: on Tuesday, May twenty third, Devon drove to Kansas City
4:38
Speaker 3: in his forty eight foot eighteen wheeler semi truck to
4:41
Speaker 3: pick up a shipment before he embarked on a sixteen
4:44
Speaker 3: hundred mile cross country road trip. To Los Angeles. After
4:48
Speaker 3: he arrived, Devon picked up a new shipment containing over
4:51
Speaker 3: twelve hundred boxes of lettuce and strawberries, and began the
4:54
Speaker 3: drive back to Kansas City. But it wasn't long before
4:58
Speaker 3: a very odd series of events would occur. On the
5:02
Speaker 3: morning of Sunday, May twenty eighth, campers in Tonto National Forest,
5:06
Speaker 3: which is located in Coconino County, Arizona, were taken by
5:10
Speaker 3: complete surprise when Devon's truck came barreling down Forest Service
5:14
Speaker 3: Road one thirty seven, a dirt road which is not
5:18
Speaker 3: often frequented by two ton eighteen wheelers. The truck was
5:22
Speaker 3: being driven incredibly recklessly at around fifty miles per hour,
5:26
Speaker 3: and came dangerously close to crashing into an suv containing
5:30
Speaker 3: two campers. The suv had been heading on the service
5:34
Speaker 3: road in the opposite direction, but they were forced to
5:37
Speaker 3: put the vehicle into reverse and back out of the
5:39
Speaker 3: truck's path. The campers would later say that they got
5:42
Speaker 3: a look at the truck driver, who didn't seem to
5:45
Speaker 3: have any expression on his face and had no intention
5:48
Speaker 3: of slowing down. The truck eventually came to a stop
5:52
Speaker 3: in a forest meadow off the service road in the
5:54
Speaker 3: Buck Springs camping area. A car of picnickers would drive
5:58
Speaker 3: by and witness Devin Klim out of the truck. He
6:01
Speaker 3: was exhibiting bizarre behavior and rambling incoherently, saying stuff like
6:05
Speaker 3: they made me do it. I'm going to jail. The
6:08
Speaker 3: Coconino County Sheriff's Department were notified about what was happening,
6:13
Speaker 3: but by the time a deputy arrived at the scene
6:15
Speaker 3: to check the truck, Devon was gone. Well, the truck
6:18
Speaker 3: had gotten stuck in some mud, there didn't seem to
6:21
Speaker 3: be anything wrong with it. The entire cargo of lettuce
6:24
Speaker 3: and strawberries was still intact, and the refrigeration unit was
6:28
Speaker 3: still running. Many of Devn's personal items were left behind
6:31
Speaker 3: in the truck's cab, including his briefcase, an ice chest,
6:35
Speaker 3: a sleeping bag, a police scanner, and his favorite hat.
6:39
Speaker 3: But Devin's stuffle bag and his collection of audio tapes
6:42
Speaker 3: were missing.
6:44
Speaker 2: This is one of those things where I'm wondering if
6:46
Speaker 2: he had gotten into Let's say he has a mental
6:50
Speaker 2: break and he thinks something has happened like that's screaming
6:54
Speaker 2: they made me do it. I'm going to jail right,
6:57
Speaker 2: and people say there's no expression. Is he and sh
7:00
Speaker 2: shock from a real traumatic incident, like maybe someone forced
7:04
Speaker 2: him to do something. Was he part of some trucker
7:08
Speaker 2: drugs or sex trafficking or something like that. I kind
7:11
Speaker 2: of think unlikely. I more so think something occurred that
7:15
Speaker 2: he interpreted as being incredibly risky, and then he is
7:20
Speaker 2: not in his reality at that point, because I've seen
7:24
Speaker 2: people like that or that stare of like I'm doing
7:26
Speaker 2: something so dangerous like almost hitting campers in this park
7:31
Speaker 2: and having no affect at all. It shows this kind
7:35
Speaker 2: of disconnect that you are no longer rational and present.
7:39
Speaker 2: So man, I'm trying to think of what he could
7:42
Speaker 2: have really encountered to make him go from hugging his
7:45
Speaker 2: wife goodbye, making this normal transport and then literally putting
7:49
Speaker 2: people in extreme harm's way, with people acknowledging he did
7:54
Speaker 2: not know what was going on.
7:56
Speaker 3: Did either if you watch the documentary What's Wrong with
7:59
Speaker 3: Ant or something.
8:01
Speaker 1: Like that, Yes, oh yes, yes, definitely.
8:03
Speaker 3: Yeah. It made me think of that, just like this
8:06
Speaker 3: blank affect and this complete disregard for the safety of
8:10
Speaker 3: other people.
8:11
Speaker 1: I mean, I know with Aunt Diane, like she was
8:13
Speaker 1: known for being like an alcoholic and had like a
8:15
Speaker 1: lot of mental health issues. But that's what's weird about
8:18
Speaker 1: Devin is that he didn't seem to have any history
8:20
Speaker 1: of that stuff. So but he still is doing the
8:23
Speaker 1: same thing where he's driving through a forest. He's in
8:25
Speaker 1: danger of running over this suv and endangering other people,
8:29
Speaker 1: but just does not seem to care. So at around
8:32
Speaker 1: four pm the following day, a couple was driving through
8:35
Speaker 1: Tonto National Forest on Service Road three twenty one when
8:38
Speaker 1: they came across Devon. This was about a mile and
8:41
Speaker 1: a half away from the spot where the truck was abandoned,
8:43
Speaker 1: and once again Devin appeared to be acting strangely and
8:47
Speaker 1: mumbling incoherently. The couple said that Devin was barefoot and
8:50
Speaker 1: appeared to be hitting a twenty dollars bill with a rock.
8:53
Speaker 1: When they asked if he needed help, Devin replied, quote,
8:56
Speaker 1: I got to light the grill. Devin then through a
8:59
Speaker 1: rock in the direction of the couple's car, which prompted
9:02
Speaker 1: them to drive away. But this turned out to be
9:04
Speaker 1: the last time Devon was seen alive. When he failed
9:07
Speaker 1: to arrive in Kansas City as scheduled with his shipment,
9:10
Speaker 1: Devon was reported missing, and it wasn't long before witnesses
9:14
Speaker 1: identified him as the man seen driving the truck. A
9:17
Speaker 1: search of Tauto National Forest turned up no trace of Devon,
9:20
Speaker 1: so investigators attempted to track his movements. After he picked
9:24
Speaker 1: up his cargo in Los Angeles, he drove over three
9:27
Speaker 1: hundred miles to Kingman, Arizona, where he phoned his trucking
9:30
Speaker 1: company headquarters and checked in on evening a Saturday in
9:33
Speaker 1: May the twenty seventh well, Devon did complain about being
9:37
Speaker 1: unable to sleep, he said he was still determined to
9:39
Speaker 1: get back on the road and make it back home
9:41
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. His route would have involved traveling
9:45
Speaker 1: east on Interstate forty, but for unknown reasons, after driving
9:48
Speaker 1: around two hundred miles, Devon apparently got off the interstate
9:52
Speaker 1: near the town of Winslow. He subsequently drove forty miles
9:55
Speaker 1: south down Arizona Highway eighty seven, which would have taken
9:58
Speaker 1: him to the Blue Ridge Range, where he subsequently turned
10:02
Speaker 1: onto Forest Service Road one thirty seven. After driving another
10:06
Speaker 1: twenty miles, Devin turned into a small path and wound
10:09
Speaker 1: up getting his truck stuck in the mud.
10:12
Speaker 2: When he throws this rock. Is he is he being
10:15
Speaker 2: a like? Is he being aggressive? Do is he being aggressive?
10:19
Speaker 2: Or is he just like not?
10:22
Speaker 1: I think he was. I think he was being aggressive
10:24
Speaker 1: because the couple seemed like pretty frightened when he threw
10:27
Speaker 1: the rock, as if he was like being violent towards them.
10:30
Speaker 2: Okay, because I'm wondering in my head, I'm trying to
10:32
Speaker 2: picture this because it's like I could see it going
10:33
Speaker 2: one of two ways where he's literally so out of
10:35
Speaker 2: control that you know this has nothing to do with us,
10:37
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like he's just kind
10:38
Speaker 2: of lost his mind and were watching or is he
10:41
Speaker 2: like targeting us? And you're saying it it's like he
10:43
Speaker 2: was literally targeting them without really having any concept of
10:46
Speaker 2: what was going on there.
10:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, it almost seems like he genuinely thought he was
10:51
Speaker 1: trying to light a grill and here come these strangers
10:53
Speaker 1: who are interrupting him, and I guess they were in
10:55
Speaker 1: his face or something, and it just kind of freaked
10:57
Speaker 1: him out. And that's why he threw the rock because
11:00
Speaker 1: before they were genuinely concerned about him, but now that
11:02
Speaker 1: he's being aggressive, they're like, Okay, this guy's dangerous. We're
11:05
Speaker 1: not going to offer him a ride or anything. We're
11:07
Speaker 1: just going to get the hell out of here.
11:09
Speaker 3: This is so bizarre, Like this behavior seems to be
11:12
Speaker 3: completely against everything that Devin would have ever done, and
11:17
Speaker 3: you've got to wonder, like, what was the catalyst for this.
11:19
Speaker 3: Did something happen where he believed that he did something
11:22
Speaker 3: that would be punishable by law and it caused him
11:25
Speaker 3: to have like a psychotic break Because for him to
11:29
Speaker 3: just have this blatant disregard and to be driving almost
11:33
Speaker 3: into this other vehicle where these people have got to
11:35
Speaker 3: swerve out of the way to miss him, and then
11:37
Speaker 3: he's throwing this rock at these other people, it just
11:40
Speaker 3: seems like aggressive behavior, but it doesn't seem to be
11:43
Speaker 3: in line with it all who he is as a
11:45
Speaker 3: person and what we know so far. So it's just
11:48
Speaker 3: completely confounding. Since Stefan was known for being a very
11:53
Speaker 3: dependable employee and family man, no one could come up
11:56
Speaker 3: with an explanation for his actions. Since he'd recently he
12:00
Speaker 3: bought a house, and his wife said that they were
12:02
Speaker 3: currently experiencing the happiest time of their lives, there didn't
12:06
Speaker 3: seem to be any reason for him to disappear voluntarily
12:10
Speaker 3: Devon had no known history of mental illness, and while
12:13
Speaker 3: drug use was looked at as a possible theory for
12:16
Speaker 3: his bizarre behavior, he was regularly drug tested by his
12:19
Speaker 3: employer and the results always came back clean. The case
12:23
Speaker 3: was featured on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries which aired
12:27
Speaker 3: in March nineteen ninety six, and fourteen months later there
12:31
Speaker 3: would finally be a partial resolution. In May nineteen ninety seven,
12:36
Speaker 3: hikers discovered a human skull near the bottom of a
12:38
Speaker 3: steep cliff. The location was about a half mile from
12:42
Speaker 3: the spot where Devon was last seen, and dental records
12:45
Speaker 3: positively identified the skull as belonging to him. There was
12:49
Speaker 3: no trauma found on the skull, and since the rest
12:52
Speaker 3: of Devon's remains could still not be found, authorities suspected
12:56
Speaker 3: that they'd been spread around by coyotes or other wild animals. Well,
13:00
Speaker 3: there was no direct evidence of foul play. The exact
13:03
Speaker 3: circumstances of how Devin died or why he wound up
13:06
Speaker 3: in Tonto National Forest to begin with, remain unknown.
13:11
Speaker 1: So I guess you could say the path with Chili.
13:14
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like in this case that you have
13:17
Speaker 2: somebody who's a murder victim. In my mind, I mean
13:20
Speaker 2: it is always possible, because if he is struggling with
13:23
Speaker 2: any kind of break from reality or mental distress, someone
13:26
Speaker 2: like that would target you, would become a target, a
13:29
Speaker 2: very easy target to say, Wow, that person's vulnerable. I
13:32
Speaker 2: could take advantage of them or hurt them. But nothing's missing,
13:35
Speaker 2: there's nothing really, it's something to say that he really
13:40
Speaker 2: was at risk at the moment. And for what I
13:43
Speaker 2: find it incredible that he has these drug tests that
13:46
Speaker 2: always come back clean, that his wife says, we are happy,
13:49
Speaker 2: we were doing fabulous, Like this is not an issue
13:52
Speaker 2: that sounds anything like my husband. I think something had
13:57
Speaker 2: to happen that put him into a traumatic state, whether
14:00
Speaker 2: real or not. Something happened to Devin that made him
14:03
Speaker 2: go into a place where he truly felt fearful of
14:06
Speaker 2: his life, where he felt that he was putting other
14:08
Speaker 2: people at risk. And then it sounds like he walked
14:12
Speaker 2: off and didn't make it back, Like was he in
14:15
Speaker 2: such distress he lost his way? Was he in such
14:18
Speaker 2: distress that he took his own life? But there's no
14:20
Speaker 2: trauma to the skull.
14:21
Speaker 1: Right exactly, Like there's no noticeable evidence of foul play.
14:25
Speaker 1: They can't find the rest of the remains, so they
14:27
Speaker 1: can't completely rule it out. But generally when people go
14:30
Speaker 1: missing in like a remote wooded area, I generally assume
14:33
Speaker 1: they died of exposure, because what are the odds of
14:36
Speaker 1: someone coming across them and killing him in such a
14:39
Speaker 1: remote place.
14:40
Speaker 3: It's like the Dior Koons Junior case, right, Like, what
14:45
Speaker 3: are the chances that you're going to have some predator
14:48
Speaker 3: come up out of nowhere in this area where you'd
14:51
Speaker 3: have to see them drive a vehicle and then just
14:54
Speaker 3: abduct this child? Like the more likely scenario there is
14:57
Speaker 3: you know, potentially the parents had something to do with it.
15:00
Speaker 3: But here, like most national forest cases, they aren't typically murders.
15:05
Speaker 3: They are usually exposure. When you know, sometimes we don't
15:10
Speaker 3: have a resolution and we don't know what happens. And
15:13
Speaker 3: I just think this is one of those cases where
15:15
Speaker 3: it seems like there was clear psychological distress and we
15:19
Speaker 3: don't know what brought that on, but enough that it
15:21
Speaker 3: seemed that Devin lost his bearings and really wasn't in
15:25
Speaker 3: touch with reality at that moment, and he seemed to
15:28
Speaker 3: be delusional, like I've got to light the grill while
15:30
Speaker 3: he's like hitting a bill like it just it didn't
15:34
Speaker 3: make any sense. And then his actions didn't seem to
15:36
Speaker 3: be in line with who he was, and he was
15:38
Speaker 3: at this really great place in his life, which just
15:41
Speaker 3: makes this all the more tragic because his wife is like,
15:45
Speaker 3: We've got three kids, we just bought a house. Everything
15:47
Speaker 3: is so great, and then this happens. It just it's heartbreaking.
15:53
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like, nothing I've read about his background indicates
15:56
Speaker 1: that he was violent or abusive or an angry person.
15:59
Speaker 1: So every I've heard makes me think that trying to
16:02
Speaker 1: run over people with his truck and throwing rocks at
16:04
Speaker 1: them was just completely out of character. He had just
16:06
Speaker 1: become an entirely different person. So Unsolved Mysteries had more
16:12
Speaker 1: than its fair share of stories about someone who displayed
16:15
Speaker 1: erratic behavior shortly before they went missing in a remote area.
16:18
Speaker 1: In many of these cases, the initial search efforts failed
16:21
Speaker 1: to find the victim until someone just happened to stumble
16:24
Speaker 1: across the remains years after the fact. In fact, the
16:27
Speaker 1: very first case to be featured on the very first
16:30
Speaker 1: episode of Unsolved Mysteries, which also got covered on the
16:33
Speaker 1: Trail Went Cold and the Path Went Chili completely fits
16:36
Speaker 1: this criteria. Of course, I'm referring to the unexplained death
16:39
Speaker 1: of Dawn Kemp, who abandoned his SUV wandered out onto
16:43
Speaker 1: a desolate Wyoming prairie before his remains were discovered a
16:46
Speaker 1: couple years later. Another memorable example of this from the
16:50
Speaker 1: show was the nineteen eighty eight disappearance of Dan Wilson,
16:53
Speaker 1: who appeared to be going through some odd personality changes
16:56
Speaker 1: and mood swings before he inexplicably drove from washing Rington
17:00
Speaker 1: State to remote area of Montana. Once again, his abandoned
17:04
Speaker 1: car was found by the side of the road, and
17:06
Speaker 1: even though search efforts failed to find him, his skull
17:09
Speaker 1: was eventually discovered a couple miles away in nineteen ninety seven.
17:13
Speaker 1: In this particular case, there was actually a logical explanation
17:16
Speaker 1: for what happened, as it turned out that dance car
17:19
Speaker 1: had a carbon monoxide leak, which may have been the
17:21
Speaker 1: source of his erratic behavior and influenced his decision to
17:25
Speaker 1: drive to remote location and wandered away from his vehicle
17:28
Speaker 1: before he succumbed to exposure. This could also provide a
17:31
Speaker 1: potential explanation for what happened to Devin Williams, but I
17:35
Speaker 1: see no indication that carbon monoxide leaks were found in
17:38
Speaker 1: his truck. I'll stay right up front that I have
17:41
Speaker 1: my doubts that Devon was a victim of foul play,
17:43
Speaker 1: and it's far more likely he simply died of exposure
17:46
Speaker 1: in the woods. But even so, the circumstances of how
17:50
Speaker 1: he wound up in that situation to begin with are
17:52
Speaker 1: incredibly bizarre, and there is zero explanation for why he
17:56
Speaker 1: drove an eighteen wheeler in is a Tanto National Forest
17:59
Speaker 1: in Arizona. By all accounts, Devin was just an ordinary, dependable,
18:03
Speaker 1: working class family man who never caused any issues at
18:06
Speaker 1: his job until something just went completely wrong during what
18:10
Speaker 1: was supposed to be a routine cross country delivery. If
18:13
Speaker 1: there were any warning signs that something was off with him,
18:16
Speaker 1: he hid them well.
18:17
Speaker 2: And what's so sad is it likely whatever stress and
18:21
Speaker 2: distress he was under caused him to walk just a
18:24
Speaker 2: few miles off the path and probably find himself in
18:27
Speaker 2: a position to not know how to navigate back because
18:30
Speaker 2: his reality was so skewed at that point, or because
18:33
Speaker 2: he's so overwhelmed, or his psychosis is so bad at
18:35
Speaker 2: the moment. I can't make it back those couple of miles,
18:38
Speaker 2: which could have been a very clear shot back to
18:41
Speaker 2: his truck. But I'm with you, Robin, I think this
18:44
Speaker 2: sounds much more like someone who wandered off and couldn't
18:47
Speaker 2: get back and died of exposure. But it's also so
18:51
Speaker 2: confusing and so tragic because other than strangers who knew
18:54
Speaker 2: him on this trip, there was no warning sign. It's
18:57
Speaker 2: very scary to think about, and.
19:00
Speaker 1: Even the whole thing about I'm going to jail, even
19:03
Speaker 1: though it's possible he was just living in an alternate
19:06
Speaker 1: reality and just thought he had done something that was
19:09
Speaker 1: going to get him arrested, but he wasn't actually true.
19:11
Speaker 1: I guess you can't discount the possibility that maybe he
19:14
Speaker 1: could have done something where he legitimately thought that he
19:18
Speaker 1: was going to get into serious legal trouble and this
19:20
Speaker 1: is what caused him to panic. But because no one
19:22
Speaker 1: could really account for his whereabouts between the time he
19:25
Speaker 1: checked into headquarters the night before and when he wound
19:27
Speaker 1: up in the forest, we will just never know for sure.
19:31
Speaker 3: Believe it or not, During the two year period Devin
19:34
Speaker 3: was missing, the possibility of him being abducted by aliens
19:38
Speaker 3: actually entered the equation. In August of nineteen ninety six,
19:42
Speaker 3: an article about the case was published in the Arizona Republic,
19:45
Speaker 3: and it genuinely explored the UFO angle. I think this
19:49
Speaker 3: largely stemmed from the fact that Tonto National Forest bordered
19:53
Speaker 3: Apache Site Grieves National Forest, the site of the infamous
19:57
Speaker 3: incident where Travis Walton claimed he was a reducted by
20:00
Speaker 3: aliens in nineteen seventy five. In the article, Charlie Green,
20:04
Speaker 3: a member of an organization called the Mutual UFO Network,
20:08
Speaker 3: discussed the similarities between the Travis Walton incident and Devin's disappearance.
20:13
Speaker 3: And yes, ladies and gentlemen, the following quote actually ran
20:18
Speaker 3: in several newspapers. He's the right age. This all has
20:22
Speaker 3: to do with the puerile semen. They take the semen
20:26
Speaker 3: from the males and the ovaries from females and mix
20:30
Speaker 3: it with alien juice to make a half breed. But
20:34
Speaker 3: I still don't understand why he wasn't brought back end quote. Well,
20:40
Speaker 3: I guess that about closes the books on this case.
20:43
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next month.
20:46
Speaker 2: Wow.
20:49
Speaker 1: I was ready for it.
20:49
Speaker 2: No, okay, okay, okay, So yes, it's all true facts. No,
20:56
Speaker 2: So the Travis Walton incident, that's the one with the
20:59
Speaker 2: six logger who are doing their job. All of a
21:02
Speaker 2: sudden they all see this very similar light. Travis instantly
21:06
Speaker 2: disappears and has found, i want to say, like nude
21:10
Speaker 2: and beaten and stuff like that, like a pretty far
21:14
Speaker 2: distance away. A couple days later, and he says that
21:17
Speaker 2: he was abducted by aliens, that he can remember these
21:22
Speaker 2: experiments that were being done on him by humans that
21:24
Speaker 2: were performing them helping these aliens. And as crazy as
21:28
Speaker 2: it sounded, there's six men who all independently gave the
21:33
Speaker 2: same story of watching this light come and Travis instantly
21:37
Speaker 2: disappearing while the five of them look at each other
21:39
Speaker 2: going what the hell happened? I often have wondered, why
21:42
Speaker 2: would a group of people want to lie about something
21:46
Speaker 2: that makes you look not all mentally there, you know,
21:50
Speaker 2: Like we all laugh about the people who say, oh
21:52
Speaker 2: I got abducted by aliens and they're off their rocker
21:54
Speaker 2: and you can tell. But there have also been some
21:57
Speaker 2: people who are very sane and very smart and very accomplished,
22:02
Speaker 2: and they have similar stories. So I'm not a massive
22:06
Speaker 2: UFO believer. I'm from Golf Breeze, Florida, which is the
22:09
Speaker 2: UFO capital. Oh yes, yes, until they proved that it wasn't.
22:15
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I mean, the Travis Walton. As
22:19
Speaker 2: crazy as that case sounds, they've quote proven it didn't happen.
22:22
Speaker 2: I don't know how you can prove that.
22:25
Speaker 1: But shoot, I.
22:27
Speaker 2: Don't think it was just for the semen. But I
22:30
Speaker 2: definitely think that something happened. Aliens are probably laid down
22:35
Speaker 2: on my list, but I feel like something happened. He
22:38
Speaker 2: was exposed to something, a trigger from childhood trauma or
22:43
Speaker 2: something occurred. Maybe he did run into somebody who he
22:46
Speaker 2: witness hurt somebody and now he can't wrap his head
22:49
Speaker 2: around it. Or maybe he was taken by aliens. I
22:54
Speaker 2: can't argue any any of those not to be true.
22:58
Speaker 3: I believe in aliens. I think that there's whole entire
23:01
Speaker 3: governments now that admit that there are UFOs or things
23:04
Speaker 3: that we do not understand. I don't think we can
23:07
Speaker 3: discount the possibility that people are abducted, potentially Travis Walton.
23:11
Speaker 3: I think that there are a lot of people that
23:14
Speaker 3: want to discount people's experiences. I don't think all of
23:17
Speaker 3: them are legitimate. I think there's things like crop circles
23:20
Speaker 3: where yes, we did have someones that were really imprecise,
23:23
Speaker 3: but then we've got some that just materialize out of
23:26
Speaker 3: nowhere and mathematically they are perfect. So how do we
23:31
Speaker 3: explain these things? We've got places like Skinwalker Ranch. And
23:35
Speaker 3: although I do believe in aliens, and I think that
23:38
Speaker 3: there's a lot in this universe that we just do
23:40
Speaker 3: not understand. But in this case, do I think that
23:44
Speaker 3: it was aliens? No, unless the aliens somehow made Devin
23:49
Speaker 3: do something illegal and that's what caused him to run
23:52
Speaker 3: off into the woods.
23:53
Speaker 1: You know.
23:54
Speaker 2: The trekking groups though, can be rough as well. And
23:57
Speaker 2: so like, what if someone had been hanging out with
23:59
Speaker 2: him a truck stop or something, And I know this
24:02
Speaker 2: sounds really dumb, but like put something in his drink
24:05
Speaker 2: or laced a cigarette or something like that that really
24:08
Speaker 2: triggered him to just god like psychosis set in because
24:12
Speaker 2: of something that he ingested and maybe not even knowing
24:14
Speaker 2: what he was ingesting.
24:16
Speaker 1: That's possible could have been something like that, because even
24:19
Speaker 1: though he was drug tested, he could have had someone
24:21
Speaker 1: slip of matt after his last drug test and no
24:24
Speaker 1: one would be able to tell. But going back to
24:27
Speaker 1: the aliens thing, like the Travis Walton case is one
24:30
Speaker 1: of the most famous UFO stories of all time and
24:32
Speaker 1: was made into a movie called Fire in the Sky,
24:34
Speaker 1: which came out in the nineteen nineties, And actually I
24:37
Speaker 1: think it came out only three years or two years
24:40
Speaker 1: before Devin went missing, So I can understand why people
24:42
Speaker 1: would be compelled to make the connection because their forests
24:46
Speaker 1: were so close together that people may have thought it
24:49
Speaker 1: was kind of like an alien haven for abducting people.
24:52
Speaker 1: But I do think it's kind of finding you that
24:54
Speaker 1: that quote about the semen like you'd expect to find
24:56
Speaker 1: that and maybe the National Inquirer or the Weekly World News,
25:00
Speaker 1: but actually got published in several mainstream newspapers like the
25:03
Speaker 1: Arizona Republic. And I feel so bad for Devon's wife
25:07
Speaker 1: and children, Like, imagine reading that quote about your father
25:10
Speaker 1: while he's missing, while dealing with the trauma. It's like,
25:12
Speaker 1: I can't believe they actually published that considering the circumstances.
25:18
Speaker 1: So okay, okay, in all seriousness, we're now going to
25:20
Speaker 1: explore all the other potential explanations which don't involve alien
25:24
Speaker 1: abductions and harvesting seamen. When Devon's skull was found in
25:28
Speaker 1: the forest less than a year after that article was published,
25:31
Speaker 1: I don't think it was because the aliens brought him back.
25:34
Speaker 1: I think his remains were simply mis during the original
25:36
Speaker 1: search efforts, and wild animals probably spread them around, which
25:40
Speaker 1: is why nothing besides the skull was recovered. Devin probably
25:43
Speaker 1: either die from exposure or since his skull was found
25:46
Speaker 1: near the bottom of the cliff, perhaps he was the
25:48
Speaker 1: victim of an accidental fall. But of course, the big
25:51
Speaker 1: mystery which still remains is how did Devin wind up
25:54
Speaker 1: at this location to begin with?
25:57
Speaker 2: Exactly how did he end up in the location in
26:00
Speaker 2: the first place. I honestly don't think it would be
26:02
Speaker 2: a fall or anything like that. I think he had to.
26:06
Speaker 2: You can see it the way that people are describing him.
26:08
Speaker 2: I can physically see it. The eyes are just black.
26:11
Speaker 2: He's not looking at anybody. He's screaming absurdities. He's confronting
26:15
Speaker 2: and taunting this couple that he's throwing the rock at.
26:18
Speaker 2: He's screaming, oh my god, they made me do it.
26:20
Speaker 2: I'm going to jail. There is like a lot of
26:23
Speaker 2: extreme distress that's coming out in kind of this angry, scared,
26:30
Speaker 2: unstable manner. So I feel like he walks off and
26:36
Speaker 2: finds himself literally like envisioning some alternate universe where he
26:40
Speaker 2: has no direction to get back, and he just starts
26:44
Speaker 2: to crumble physically and eventually succumbs to the elements. Because
26:48
Speaker 2: there's just not a whole lot of other things that
26:50
Speaker 2: make sense. Again, unless some crazy serial killer is just
26:54
Speaker 2: watching for a vulnerable person to come by and happens
26:57
Speaker 2: to be there, just doesn't seem probable.
27:00
Speaker 3: Highly improbable. In fact, I think you're right. I think
27:04
Speaker 3: a fall would make less sense because if you were
27:07
Speaker 3: to fall from this big cliff, I think there'd be
27:10
Speaker 3: a strong likelihood that there would be some type of
27:13
Speaker 3: trauma to the skull. But since we're not seeing any
27:16
Speaker 3: trauma to the skull, I think unless it was a
27:19
Speaker 3: fall from a short distance, I think it's probably likely
27:22
Speaker 3: that he just became completely disoriented and, like you said,
27:26
Speaker 3: physically just broke down and eventually just died from exposure
27:30
Speaker 3: and dehydration. Well, given that Devon was a long hal
27:35
Speaker 3: truck driver, there are a number of explanations which could
27:38
Speaker 3: account for this. As far as anyone can tell, everything
27:42
Speaker 3: seemed normal with him when he picked up his cargo
27:44
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles and started his cross country trip back
27:47
Speaker 3: to Kansas City. The last communications from Devon was when
27:51
Speaker 3: he checked into his headquarters from Kingman, Arizona, on Saturday,
27:55
Speaker 3: May twenty seventh, but he did complain that he wasn't
27:58
Speaker 3: getting any sleep. Nevertheless, he said he was determined to
28:02
Speaker 3: get back on the road, and you can kind of
28:04
Speaker 3: understand why. At this point he still had over nineteen
28:08
Speaker 3: hours of driving left to get back home, and since
28:11
Speaker 3: May twenty ninth happened to be Memorial Day, I'm sure
28:14
Speaker 3: Devin wanted to spend it with his wife and children,
28:17
Speaker 3: even if that meant that he had to forego sleep.
28:20
Speaker 3: During the Unsolved Mystery segment, one investigator commented that the
28:24
Speaker 3: only time Devon was known to be irritated on the
28:27
Speaker 3: job was when he had to wait a long period
28:29
Speaker 3: of time for a shipment that he was picking up
28:32
Speaker 3: because he wanted to get back home to his family.
28:35
Speaker 2: I think that that's a very big possibility here, is
28:38
Speaker 2: it that he hasn't gotten any sleep and so he's
28:41
Speaker 2: incredibly stressed about, Okay, I have to make the delivery.
28:46
Speaker 2: Because there are different standards that people have to follow
28:49
Speaker 2: in trucking, Right, you have this many hours to get
28:51
Speaker 2: to this point. Now, they do then factor in rest
28:55
Speaker 2: time and those kinds of things. But if you're not
28:57
Speaker 2: sleeping during your rest time and you're functioning like you're
29:01
Speaker 2: on drugs or alcohol because you've been going for hours
29:04
Speaker 2: and days with no rest, it can manifest just like
29:08
Speaker 2: you're under the influence. And so if he says, I
29:11
Speaker 2: have to make this deadline and my kids need me home,
29:13
Speaker 2: my wife needs me home, I could easily see a
29:17
Speaker 2: lack of sleep starting that kind of distress. And then again,
29:22
Speaker 2: something let's say he stops and takes a cigarette and
29:25
Speaker 2: it's some guy who's like, I don't give two cruds.
29:26
Speaker 2: I put you know, fitanyl in my cigarettes. And if
29:29
Speaker 2: this guy wants when that's cool too, I could see
29:32
Speaker 2: something like that happening.
29:34
Speaker 3: It could trigger an underlying mental illness. We know that
29:37
Speaker 3: he isn't diagnosed with anything, but sometimes you can have,
29:42
Speaker 3: you know, issues that might not come to the surface
29:45
Speaker 3: until an extreme amount of stress and pressure has been
29:48
Speaker 3: put on the body. And after you know a couple
29:50
Speaker 3: of days of not sleeping, the behaviors that are going
29:54
Speaker 3: to arise are going to be completely atypical of that
29:57
Speaker 3: person that they will be, like Ashley said, akin to
30:00
Speaker 3: somebody being under the influence. We really as human beings
30:03
Speaker 3: can't survive longer than like a week without sleep. They've
30:06
Speaker 3: done all of these different sleep experiments, and the behavior
30:10
Speaker 3: becomes stranger and stranger, and the body starts to break down,
30:13
Speaker 3: and the mind is very quick to follow. After just
30:17
Speaker 3: a couple of days, your immune system is operating at
30:20
Speaker 3: like a complete subpar level, and your ability to problem
30:23
Speaker 3: solve is diminish, almost entirely. So the fact that he
30:28
Speaker 3: wasn't sleeping, it is it opens up a door that
30:31
Speaker 3: he potentially was making poor decisions, but also that his
30:36
Speaker 3: psychology was impacted that he could have had a psychotic break.
30:40
Speaker 3: It could have been something so simple as like Ashley said,
30:43
Speaker 3: he stopped at a roadside diner or biker bar to
30:45
Speaker 3: get a drink, and by accident he drank or smoked
30:49
Speaker 3: something that was laced with something, and that contributed to
30:53
Speaker 3: the state that he was already in and he had
30:55
Speaker 3: like a full he was in full on psychosis by
30:58
Speaker 3: the time these people saw. Because it's hard to believe
31:01
Speaker 3: that in this very short period of time since he
31:03
Speaker 3: last checked in and said that he hadn't got much
31:06
Speaker 3: sleep that somehow they made me do. It would indicate
31:11
Speaker 3: that he actually had committed a crime that he could
31:13
Speaker 3: go to jail for. I mean, there's always a possibility
31:16
Speaker 3: that we're missing a big chunk of the story, but
31:19
Speaker 3: it seems like this lack of sleep was a major
31:21
Speaker 3: contributing factor.
31:23
Speaker 1: And we technically don't know the last time Devin did
31:26
Speaker 1: sleep because he was traveling alone, and we don't know
31:30
Speaker 1: if he slept in king In that night, which was
31:32
Speaker 1: right before he showed up in the forest. We don't
31:34
Speaker 1: know if he slept before he arrived in Los Angeles.
31:36
Speaker 1: So for all we know, he could have gone a
31:39
Speaker 1: lengthy period of time without sleeping before he made this
31:42
Speaker 1: phone call and it would have affected his mental health.
31:47
Speaker 1: So when you look at the geography, Devon's route should
31:50
Speaker 1: have involved him traveling east on Interstate forty through Arizona
31:53
Speaker 1: before he turned off onto another route in either New
31:56
Speaker 1: Mexico or Oklahoma to travel northeast towards Kansas City. But
32:00
Speaker 1: it seems like after he left Kingman, Devin traveled about
32:03
Speaker 1: two hundred miles east of the town of Winslow before
32:06
Speaker 1: he got off the interstate and started traveling south until
32:09
Speaker 1: he wound up in Tonto National Forests, about sixty miles away.
32:12
Speaker 1: The last witnesses who saw Devin described him as behaving
32:15
Speaker 1: erradically and claimed that while he was behind the wheel
32:18
Speaker 1: of the truck, he appeared to have a blank look
32:20
Speaker 1: on his face, as if he had no regard for
32:22
Speaker 1: the safety of himself or anyone else in the forest.
32:25
Speaker 1: Of course, the first theory everyone jumped on was that
32:27
Speaker 1: Devin might be on drugs, but his family denied that
32:30
Speaker 1: he ever used them, and he was regularly drug test
32:33
Speaker 1: at his job and came up clean. But just because
32:36
Speaker 1: Devin never tested positive for drugs in the past does
32:38
Speaker 1: not necessarily mean he could have decided to experiment and
32:41
Speaker 1: take something shortly before this incident which caused him the
32:45
Speaker 1: spiral out of control.
32:47
Speaker 2: Of course, and there have always been ways to beat
32:49
Speaker 2: drug test, right if you know how your employer test,
32:52
Speaker 2: and you're not highly monitored during the test itself, you
32:56
Speaker 2: can beat those. But I am deeply convicted he was
32:59
Speaker 2: not using drugs, or at least that he was not
33:02
Speaker 2: voluntarily using drugs, that maybe something else was going on.
33:05
Speaker 2: You know, like he's middle aged, you'd be shocked. The
33:09
Speaker 2: older we get, folks like you start to have very
33:13
Speaker 2: different hormonal reactions, You start to have different mental health reactions.
33:18
Speaker 2: I struggle with things today I never struggled with when
33:20
Speaker 2: I was younger, and vice versa. Things I used to
33:22
Speaker 2: struggle with when I was younger I no longer struggle with,
33:25
Speaker 2: so like on set of allergies and on set of
33:28
Speaker 2: other conditions, those things happen. I am still wondering who
33:35
Speaker 2: did he hang out with while he's stressed out and
33:37
Speaker 2: sleep deprived. Was there someone who said, this will be
33:40
Speaker 2: fun to mess with this guy and slip him something,
33:43
Speaker 2: or were they sharing something just to be kind, like, yeah,
33:47
Speaker 2: you can bum a cigarette off me and it has
33:50
Speaker 2: cocaine in it or something like that. I mean, I
33:53
Speaker 2: don't It just seems like the crowd he would be
33:55
Speaker 2: hanging out with at the truck stops, that there's potential
33:57
Speaker 2: for that with certain types of truckers.
34:00
Speaker 3: Long truck drivers are known to be regular users of
34:03
Speaker 3: meth because you need to stay awake for long periods
34:07
Speaker 3: of time, and you make more money if you can
34:10
Speaker 3: complete your job in an expedient manner. So there is
34:14
Speaker 3: a huge motivation to stay up at like these ungodly hours. So,
34:19
Speaker 3: although it says that he was tested and he was clean,
34:24
Speaker 3: was his employer really fastidious about doing surprise testing or
34:28
Speaker 3: did they schedule testing so the employees knew when they
34:31
Speaker 3: would be tested just so they were like achieving some
34:34
Speaker 3: kind of compliance and then that way they could kind
34:37
Speaker 3: of skirt around it by making sure they didn't use
34:39
Speaker 3: within certain timeframes. And like, unless we know what the
34:43
Speaker 3: exact policy is, it's really hard to know just because
34:46
Speaker 3: he was clean when he was tested, if he in
34:49
Speaker 3: fact never used drugs in order to stay awake, because
34:52
Speaker 3: as we well know, I mean, you can stay awake
34:55
Speaker 3: for a while with red bull and stuff, but staying
34:57
Speaker 3: awake for multiple days without some sort of subs since
35:00
Speaker 3: is damn near impossible. However, a far more logical explanation
35:07
Speaker 3: for Devon's behavior might be, like we mentioned, sleep deprivation.
35:11
Speaker 3: Devon was complaining about being unable to sleep during his
35:14
Speaker 3: final phone call from Kingman the night before, and it's
35:18
Speaker 3: unclear if he did get any sleep before he wound
35:20
Speaker 3: up in the forest. Sleep deprivation and fatigue have always
35:24
Speaker 3: been a major issue in the trucking industry, as drivers
35:27
Speaker 3: are sometimes put on tight schedules to deliver their loads
35:30
Speaker 3: and do not take the appropriate amount of time to rest.
35:33
Speaker 3: And even if Devon wasn't facing pressure to deliver his shipment,
35:37
Speaker 3: he may have been pressuring himself to be home in
35:40
Speaker 3: time to spend Memorial Day with his family. Sleep deprivation
35:43
Speaker 3: can cause a person to become completely disoriented, and this
35:47
Speaker 3: very well could have led to Devon going off course
35:50
Speaker 3: and barreling his truck down a forest service road which
35:53
Speaker 3: was not equipped to handle an eighteen wheeler. After he
35:56
Speaker 3: got his truck stuck in the mud, witnesses reported seeing
35:59
Speaker 3: him climb out will saying stuff like they made me
36:02
Speaker 3: do it and I'm going to jail. In his disoriented state,
36:06
Speaker 3: Devin may have thought he was going to face serious
36:08
Speaker 3: consequences for this, which is what compelled him to abandon
36:12
Speaker 3: the truck and take off into the forest. We know
36:15
Speaker 3: that Devin survived in the elements for at least twenty
36:17
Speaker 3: four hours, since a couple saw him the following day,
36:21
Speaker 3: But since he was attempting to light a non existent grill,
36:24
Speaker 3: it was apparent that he was in a bad state
36:26
Speaker 3: of mind and had no idea where he was or
36:29
Speaker 3: what he was doing. As far as anyone can tell,
36:33
Speaker 3: Devin did not have any history of mental illness or
36:36
Speaker 3: medical issues which could have caused this behavior. But what
36:39
Speaker 3: if he had some kind of undiagnosed medical issue that
36:42
Speaker 3: he didn't even know about for sure?
36:45
Speaker 2: How old is Devon? I was twenty nine, twenty nine,
36:48
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of mental health conditions that
36:51
Speaker 2: do worsen in your twenties, so that's very possible for him.
36:56
Speaker 2: What was also sad is that you know, there's no
36:59
Speaker 2: fault or blame here. In hindsight's always so easy to see,
37:02
Speaker 2: but like, you know, you see people like Devin, He's
37:06
Speaker 2: sitting there trying to light an imaginary flame. I mean,
37:09
Speaker 2: we see people here who are addicted to drugs and
37:11
Speaker 2: they're talking to themselves at the grocery store and things
37:13
Speaker 2: like that. If there was only better resources to call
37:17
Speaker 2: and get people mental health care and help, and we
37:21
Speaker 2: were all alert enough to know what those resources were,
37:24
Speaker 2: I wonder if people like Devin could be saved, you
37:27
Speaker 2: know what I mean, or at least gotten help. But
37:29
Speaker 2: it's like we don't have the mechanisms in place. Had
37:32
Speaker 2: anyone even called and said, Hey, there's a guy struggling
37:35
Speaker 2: out here. He seems like he's not got it all together, Like,
37:38
Speaker 2: what would they have even done for him? Would someone
37:40
Speaker 2: have even shown up to help. It's sad to think
37:43
Speaker 2: that a man who is likely struggling for mental health
37:46
Speaker 2: didn't have anyone kind of reach out and try to
37:49
Speaker 2: get assistance for him. But then again, what assistance would
37:52
Speaker 2: you be getting, especially when this wasn't twenty twenty three?
37:55
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? And we're still at
37:57
Speaker 2: a point where many of us feel helpless of who
37:59
Speaker 2: do I ask for help when I know someone struggling
38:01
Speaker 2: with mental illness.
38:02
Speaker 3: It's pretty heartbreaking because at the age of twenty nine,
38:07
Speaker 3: I think people will think, oh, that's kind of old
38:09
Speaker 3: to be diagnosed with a mental health condition. But a
38:11
Speaker 3: lot of mental health conditions are diagnosed in your twenties.
38:14
Speaker 3: Oftentimes they'll be indicators earlier on. But psychiatrists and psychologists
38:19
Speaker 3: are really reticent to label you when you're in your
38:23
Speaker 3: teens unless there is some kind of major event right
38:27
Speaker 3: where say there is a suicide attempt or something like that.
38:30
Speaker 3: Somebody may be diagnosed as bipolar when they're seventeen, whereas
38:34
Speaker 3: people really like to wait and see how the brain develops.
38:38
Speaker 3: When the brain isn't fully developed until you're twenty five,
38:41
Speaker 3: so twenty nine wouldn't be completely outside the realm of
38:46
Speaker 3: what would be characterized as typical. I have bipolar two,
38:50
Speaker 3: and I wasn't diagnosed until my early thirties, although there
38:54
Speaker 3: were major indicators that I've been suffering from it earlier.
38:57
Speaker 3: And my mom is bipolar one. So I think each
39:00
Speaker 3: individual's kind of mental health journey is highly individualized and
39:05
Speaker 3: will be completely dependent on the type of care available
39:08
Speaker 3: and also the people around you.
39:10
Speaker 1: And what year was this, Robin nineteen ninety five, Yeah.
39:13
Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety five. The conversations around mental health and mental
39:17
Speaker 3: health treatment aren't what they are today, So if we're
39:21
Speaker 3: looking at it through a lens of nineteen ninety five,
39:23
Speaker 3: I think it is entirely possible that he may have
39:26
Speaker 3: been struggling mightily and might not have been able to
39:29
Speaker 3: articulate that struggle, and maybe other people didn't know, because
39:33
Speaker 3: I know personally and I know from watching other people
39:36
Speaker 3: around me, that when you're struggling, you can sometimes hide
39:41
Speaker 3: that very well from others, and you might not reach
39:44
Speaker 3: out for help when you need it.
39:47
Speaker 1: Well. There are a couple of discussion threads about this
39:49
Speaker 1: case on the Unsolved Mysteries message board at the Sitcoms
39:52
Speaker 1: online forum I always frequent. One of the most interesting
39:55
Speaker 1: theories I've read there is that Devin was suffering from
39:58
Speaker 1: severe hypoglycemia aka low blood sugar and went into diabetic shock.
40:03
Speaker 1: In fact, a poster on those threads under the username
40:06
Speaker 1: Caine seventy four or seventy four shared a very interesting
40:09
Speaker 1: story about a friend of his who was a truck driver.
40:12
Speaker 1: One day, this guy suddenly drove his truck around erratically
40:15
Speaker 1: for no reason, and when he pulled over and climbed out,
40:18
Speaker 1: he started to pretend he was going fishing. His behavior
40:21
Speaker 1: suggested that he legitimately believed what he was doing, much
40:24
Speaker 1: like when Devon was attempting to light the grill. It
40:27
Speaker 1: turned out this guy was acting this way because he
40:29
Speaker 1: was a diabetic whose blood sugar had gotten too low.
40:32
Speaker 1: But once he ate a candy bar, he started acting
40:35
Speaker 1: normally again and had no memory whatsoever of his erratic behavior.
40:40
Speaker 1: Whenever someone suffers from low blood sugar, they can lapse
40:42
Speaker 1: into a diabetic coma if they are not treated. But
40:45
Speaker 1: given that Devon was out there by himself in a
40:48
Speaker 1: remote area. It may not have even been aware of
40:50
Speaker 1: what was happening to him. I can see a situation
40:53
Speaker 1: like this taking place absolutely.
40:56
Speaker 2: I could absolutely see something like that taking place. I
40:59
Speaker 2: had no idea idea how bad blood sugar would affect
41:03
Speaker 2: your behavior, like I know personally when I haven't eaten
41:06
Speaker 2: and I can feel the shakes coming on. My mental
41:09
Speaker 2: health struggles as well. But I also have a bonus
41:12
Speaker 2: baby who has type one diabetes. And my mom was
41:15
Speaker 2: a type two diabetic for many years, and especially with
41:19
Speaker 2: our type one diabetic, mood and attitude is very much
41:23
Speaker 2: tied to keeping that blood sugar in line. And we
41:26
Speaker 2: had no idea that she had type one diabetes, and
41:29
Speaker 2: so there were several months where we were very confused
41:32
Speaker 2: of the radical behavior changes and things like that. And
41:35
Speaker 2: when she's soaring and doing well, you can really see
41:38
Speaker 2: the mental health come as a blessing and bonus to
41:42
Speaker 2: having her blood sugar inline. So I didn't even think
41:44
Speaker 2: about blood sugar and diabetes or something to that extent,
41:48
Speaker 2: and having late onset of that kind of condition is
41:52
Speaker 2: just as probable as something like you were saying. Jewels
41:54
Speaker 2: so vulnerably and beautifully that yes, later in life, it's
41:58
Speaker 2: not abnormal to be diagne with a mental health condition
42:01
Speaker 2: and to have symptoms get stronger before they get better. So, man,
42:06
Speaker 2: we've got a lot of things on the table as
42:07
Speaker 2: possibilities to what Devon was going through. I think any
42:11
Speaker 2: kind of violence against Devin was probably not the case.
42:17
Speaker 1: Now.
42:17
Speaker 3: There's no indication that Devon was ever diagnosed as having diabetes,
42:22
Speaker 3: but I could see him getting it. He was overweight
42:24
Speaker 3: and working as a long haul truck driver, a job
42:27
Speaker 3: which requires you to be seated for long periods of
42:30
Speaker 3: time does not lend itself to having an active, healthy lifestyle.
42:34
Speaker 3: But most importantly, one potential cause of diabetes is sleep deprivation,
42:39
Speaker 3: as it inhibits the body's ability to produce insulin. So
42:43
Speaker 3: if Devin had been living an unhealthy sleep deprived lifestyle
42:46
Speaker 3: for a while, he could have developed diabetes without even
42:49
Speaker 3: realizing it. Unfortunately, since all that was found of Devon
42:53
Speaker 3: was his skull, it will be impossible to ever determine
42:56
Speaker 3: if any health problems contributed to his death. The one
43:00
Speaker 3: thing I'm pretty certain of is that Devin Williams was
43:03
Speaker 3: not abducted by UFOs, nor was he the victim of
43:06
Speaker 3: foul play. He likely just suffered some sort of episode
43:09
Speaker 3: which caused him to have a breakdown and wander off
43:12
Speaker 3: into the woods before he passed away.
43:15
Speaker 2: It is so sad. Yeah, I mean, I don't think
43:20
Speaker 2: UFOs had anything to do with this one either, Jules.
43:23
Speaker 2: When you do have his wife and all, what breaks
43:27
Speaker 2: my heart is it She's saying he was fine, like
43:30
Speaker 2: we were doing so well, there were no problematic signs,
43:34
Speaker 2: And then imagine her sitting there hearing from police and
43:37
Speaker 2: detectives and people saying, oh, a lot of people saw him.
43:40
Speaker 2: He was really struggling. She's having to wrap around her
43:44
Speaker 2: mind around not only is he not found, and not
43:47
Speaker 2: only does she not know where he is, but she's
43:50
Speaker 2: also being told about a man she doesn't know, Like
43:53
Speaker 2: the behaviors that are being described, She's going, who are
43:55
Speaker 2: they talking about? He was aggressive towards somebody, he was screaming,
44:00
Speaker 2: he was going to jail. He almost ran a couple
44:03
Speaker 2: off the road or hit their campaign site. Like she's
44:06
Speaker 2: having to kind of come to terms with like I
44:08
Speaker 2: wasn't able to be there to help. I don't know
44:11
Speaker 2: what happened to him, And it's I can't imagine the
44:14
Speaker 2: added complexities that she'd be feeling as she's being told
44:18
Speaker 2: about his last days on earth.
44:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if there was no crime here, you still
44:23
Speaker 1: have to feel terrible for Devin's family because there is
44:26
Speaker 1: really no way to conclusively determine what happened to him,
44:29
Speaker 1: and they will always be left with unanswered questions. So,
44:31
Speaker 1: even though this case is pretty creepy on the surface
44:34
Speaker 1: and has a number of inexplicable details, it's probably more
44:37
Speaker 1: of a senseless tragedy than anything else. All that being said,
44:41
Speaker 1: if you happen to have any information to suggest that
44:43
Speaker 1: foul play may have been involved in the death of
44:45
Speaker 1: Devin Williams, or you can shed some additional light on
44:48
Speaker 1: what he drove into Tonto National Forest, please contact the
44:51
Speaker 1: appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts on this case.
44:57
Speaker 2: It's sad, I mean, that's what I basically say. At
44:59
Speaker 2: the end of any of these someone lost their life
45:01
Speaker 2: and there's a family grievingness. Again, I think this is
45:04
Speaker 2: one of those cases where it leads me going like
45:08
Speaker 2: what if what if someone had been able to get
45:11
Speaker 2: in touch with authorities that could have made contact with Devin,
45:14
Speaker 2: and what if they were able to get him proper
45:17
Speaker 2: medical or mental health support. Something was going wrong. And
45:22
Speaker 2: what said is so many people were able to say, oh, yeah,
45:26
Speaker 2: I saw him and he was acting very you know, abnormal.
45:29
Speaker 2: He wasn't acting like himself, or he wasn't acting sane
45:32
Speaker 2: or like he was present in his body. But the
45:35
Speaker 2: reality is, like I said earlier, I don't really know
45:37
Speaker 2: that we have services in place too help people. I
45:41
Speaker 2: encounter many homeless individuals and addicts in my small little
45:45
Speaker 2: town every day, and it's like we just don't have
45:48
Speaker 2: the resources in place here to help any of them.
45:52
Speaker 2: It feels like, right like you can help them for
45:54
Speaker 2: an afternoon, or you can get them food or get
45:55
Speaker 2: them to a safe space, but it doesn't address any
45:58
Speaker 2: of the deeper issues that are going on. And hear,
46:01
Speaker 2: what's so crazy is that these weren't signs that anyone
46:05
Speaker 2: who loved and cared about him had ever seen. It's
46:08
Speaker 2: just really like he left, and when he left, something
46:12
Speaker 2: happened that completely changed the individual who was driving behind
46:15
Speaker 2: the wheel of that truck. So, my god, it's pitiful.
46:19
Speaker 2: It's so pitiful. I wish that the whole skeletal remains
46:24
Speaker 2: had been found to see if there's any indication of
46:26
Speaker 2: what had happened. But I just I pray that Devin's
46:30
Speaker 2: family is safe and has you know, this idea of look,
46:36
Speaker 2: we just don't know what happened, and we still have
46:39
Speaker 2: to create a life for ourselves. So many families end
46:42
Speaker 2: up really dying alongside with the victim when they have
46:46
Speaker 2: no answers and they don't know what's happening. So, my God,
46:48
Speaker 2: my prayers that they're thriving and that one day they
46:51
Speaker 2: would have answers in this case, but even if not,
46:53
Speaker 2: that they would know Devn is not hurting anymore and
46:57
Speaker 2: that they have this potential to have an amazing life
47:00
Speaker 2: and his legacy. So thank you for sharing this case
47:02
Speaker 2: with me. Super sad.
47:04
Speaker 3: My heart goes out to the family. Like Ashley said,
47:07
Speaker 3: I really hope that they've found some sort of peace,
47:10
Speaker 3: And it's really difficult when there aren't any clear answers.
47:15
Speaker 3: All you have is a skull. I mean, it is
47:17
Speaker 3: a blessing. I suppose that they were able to find
47:20
Speaker 3: the skull and that there was no trauma to the skull,
47:23
Speaker 3: and so with regards to was it murder or was
47:27
Speaker 3: this you know, an accident exposure type of thing. I
47:30
Speaker 3: think it's pretty clear that it was exposure was the
47:33
Speaker 3: most likely cause. But what led to Devin driving his
47:38
Speaker 3: truck down this dirt road, nearly mowing people over, and
47:42
Speaker 3: then behaving very strangely and out of character. I think
47:45
Speaker 3: there is a lot of hidden variables. Like Robin had
47:47
Speaker 3: brought up about the diabetes, it is possible because he
47:51
Speaker 3: was sedentary, he was only twenty nine, it very well
47:54
Speaker 3: could have been something like that. Or it could have
47:57
Speaker 3: been drug use. Like we said, he managed to come
48:00
Speaker 3: back clean, but we don't know if he was managing
48:03
Speaker 3: to stay up for all of these concurrent days by
48:06
Speaker 3: taking some kind of substance and maybe that triggered a
48:09
Speaker 3: psychotic break. I think there's any number of things that
48:13
Speaker 3: could have happened, and we could talk about those things
48:15
Speaker 3: at nauseum, but the reality is, I just don't think
48:18
Speaker 3: we're ever going to get any clear answers because unless
48:22
Speaker 3: this was murder and somebody comes forward and says that
48:25
Speaker 3: they indeed did it, or they said that, oh I
48:28
Speaker 3: know what he did. That is the thing that was
48:31
Speaker 3: the catalyst for this, that he was saying, I'm going
48:34
Speaker 3: to go to jail, then I don't think there's any
48:37
Speaker 3: answers because we don't have the body, so we're not
48:40
Speaker 3: going to know exactly what it was that caused his death.
48:44
Speaker 3: But I just, like Ashley said, I just really pray
48:47
Speaker 3: for the family, and I hope that they found some
48:50
Speaker 3: resolution in being able to bury his remains or do
48:55
Speaker 3: whatever they chose to do, whatever their chosen funerary practice is.
49:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, since you mentioned Devon's family, I know the former
49:04
Speaker 1: moderator of the Unsolved Mysteries message board, and many years
49:07
Speaker 1: ago she actually had a bit of communication with Devon's daughter,
49:11
Speaker 1: who pretty much said that we still have no idea
49:14
Speaker 1: what happened to our father and why he wound up
49:16
Speaker 1: on those woods and how he wound up dead. But
49:19
Speaker 1: even though it was a sad situation for them, at
49:21
Speaker 1: least they knew that he wasn't still missing at that point,
49:24
Speaker 1: and at least we're able to confirm that he was
49:27
Speaker 1: deceased and that he was not out there somewhere possibly
49:30
Speaker 1: in danger. I know that when it first aired on
49:33
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries, I was pretty mind blown by it because
49:36
Speaker 1: I had no idea what was going on, why he
49:38
Speaker 1: wound up where he did, why he was acting so strangely,
49:41
Speaker 1: but a lot of the mystery was taken away when
49:43
Speaker 1: they found his skull, because that pretty much was conclusive
49:46
Speaker 1: proof that he never left the forest. He probably died
49:49
Speaker 1: of exposure, and the big mystery was there was no
49:52
Speaker 1: foul play, But there was still a big mystery how
49:54
Speaker 1: we wound up there. And I think it was probably
49:57
Speaker 1: maybe we talked about possibly diabetes or a mental health issue,
50:01
Speaker 1: or someone slipped him some drugs which totally lose his
50:05
Speaker 1: grip on reality, or maybe it was sleep deprivation which
50:08
Speaker 1: caused him to be confused about what he was doing.
50:11
Speaker 1: And like we said, the very sad thing about it
50:13
Speaker 1: is that since we only found a skull, we will
50:16
Speaker 1: never know the answer. And that's why in a lot
50:18
Speaker 1: of these cases, you want there to be like a crime.
50:20
Speaker 1: You want there to be a criminal because then you
50:22
Speaker 1: could least get answers about what happened. But if he
50:25
Speaker 1: was out there alone and just simply a diet of exposure,
50:28
Speaker 1: there's just no way of knowing for sure. I tend
50:31
Speaker 1: to think that is what happened. But I still think
50:33
Speaker 1: that this case is worth discussing because at least Devin's
50:37
Speaker 1: family knows that he's not forgotten, and that people still
50:40
Speaker 1: care about finding the truth about what happened to him,
50:42
Speaker 1: which is why it's important to keep these cases alive
50:45
Speaker 1: on this podcast like this.
50:48
Speaker 2: Thanks to all of the amazing Patreon fans who have
50:51
Speaker 2: logged on and listened to us this month. We can't
50:53
Speaker 2: wait to connect with you next month, So for now,
50:56
Speaker 2: bye guys.