Latest / Everyday Ancestral with James Barry / How to Fix Pelvic Floor Issues Naturally | Breathing, Core & Recovery | Dr. Kayla Borchers

Transcript

How to Fix Pelvic Floor Issues Naturally | Breathing, Core & Recovery | Dr. Kayla Borchers · Everyday Ancestral with James Barry

0:00
Hey friends, have you ever been told you have a weak core
0:03
or maybe you've been laughing really hard
0:06
and you slightly peed your pants?
0:08
That is a pelvic floor issue.
0:10
And today I am talking with Dr. Kayla Borscher's,
0:14
a pelvic floor and nervous system expert
0:16
who's here to set the record straight.
0:18
I'm so excited to dig into this
0:19
because honestly this is a little close to my heart.
0:22
This happens to my wife
0:24
and I'm not throwing her under the bus,
0:26
but this is something that she has dealt with
0:28
for many, many years.
0:29
And I think she always thought it was her
0:31
until she started going seeing someone like Dr. Kayla,
0:34
who is a pelvic floor specialist.
0:36
So Dr. Kayla, thank you so much for joining us.
0:39
Thank you so much for having me.
0:40
And truly, I'm excited to create a safe space
0:43
to open this conversation because women's health issues,
0:46
pelvic floor issues in general, it's not just women.
0:49
It can be men as well who have these pelvic floor issues
0:54
and so many right office.
0:56
It's just normal, especially moms.
0:57
They're like, oh, I've had kids.
0:59
So it's normal to laugh when I hear
1:01
if I jump on the trampoline.
1:02
It is common, my friend, but it is not normal.
1:05
And so yes, I'm excited to break this stigma today
1:08
and talk through ways you can really help yourself heal
1:11
from a whole body approach.
1:13
Well, I want to go right into the men thing
1:15
just because in case there are any men listening,
1:19
I want them to immediately know like,
1:20
hey, this episode is for you too.
1:23
So obviously we're going to cover a lot of prenatal,
1:26
postnatal support for women that are going on that path.
1:32
But is this connected for men when you're peeing
1:37
and then you think you're done and then you put up your pants
1:42
and then you still have more peaking out?
1:44
Yes, that is a sign of not fully relaxing the pelvic floor.
1:48
Typically, there can be a nerve component
1:50
where maybe the nerve is hyper stimulating,
1:53
the muscles in that area, but same thing.
1:55
The nerves are hyper stimulating the area.
1:57
It's contracting the muscles.
1:59
And so we need to draw the brain to muscle connection
2:03
down to the pelvis.
2:04
And so the pelvis is that structure that makes up our hip joint
2:09
and then our sacrum in the back, our tailbone at the bottom,
2:12
but there's this whole hammock of muscles
2:14
that lay within that pelvis.
2:16
And that is where our urinary
2:18
and our bowel functions occur through.
2:20
And so this can happen for both men and women.
2:23
Yes, our anatomy is slightly different,
2:25
but the underlying inner muscle structure is the same.
2:29
And so we need to learn to down-regulate the nervous system.
2:34
And really it starts with the breath.
2:36
And this is appropriate for both men and women
2:39
to truly learn how to diaphragmatically breathe.
2:42
When we slow down that word,
2:46
I'm sure most people are like, huh,
2:47
what does she just say?
2:48
Can you share that word?
2:49
Yes, I will talk us through it.
2:52
So diaphragmatically breath is breathing with your diaphragm.
2:56
So our diaphragm lays underneath our rib cage.
3:00
And so often in today's society,
3:02
our nervous systems are up-regulated
3:04
where we're breathing into our accessory muscles
3:07
and to our shoulders and to our neck.
3:09
So we have upper trap tension, neck tension, headaches.
3:12
And I will tie this all into the pelvic floor, don't worry.
3:15
So when we breathe, our diaphragm should drop.
3:19
And when our diaphragm drops,
3:21
it creates a negative air flow pressure in our lungs
3:24
so that the air can just naturally flow in.
3:26
We don't need any use of these accessory muscles.
3:29
When the diaphragm drops, it activates our vagus nerve.
3:33
The vagus nerve is the nerve that links us
3:36
to our parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest,
3:39
and digest portion of your nervous system.
3:42
When the diaphragm drops,
3:43
it also pushes all of those internal abdominal contents down,
3:47
down into the pelvic bowl.
3:50
And so the pelvic bowl is gonna be that hammock
3:52
of muscles at the bottom,
3:54
but again, both men and women have,
3:56
and that bowl of muscles should descend.
3:59
Every single inhale, we should get a slight descent.
4:02
And then every single exhale,
4:03
we should get a slight recoil,
4:05
where it's this gentle oscillation up and down.
4:08
And so if that pelvic floor,
4:10
and either a male or a female,
4:12
is stuck in this up position,
4:14
because the diaphragm is not moving with your breath,
4:17
you're just breathing into your chest,
4:19
then it stays tight,
4:20
and then it can be very challenging
4:22
to fully empty your bladder.
4:24
So to your point of,
4:25
you think you've eliminated everything,
4:27
and then you get up, and you're like,
4:28
wait, I have to go to the bathroom again,
4:30
and I literally just went.
4:31
Or maybe you get up, you leave the restroom,
4:34
you squat to pick up something, and you leak a little bit.
4:36
And you're like, that is so weird,
4:37
I literally just used the restroom.
4:39
Well, it's because your pelvic floor
4:42
wasn't fully relaxing to allow that bladder to fully empty.
4:45
And so that's definitely one scenario
4:47
that we see a lot in the clinic.
4:49
Again, it can be either gender,
4:51
and it really all ties back
4:53
to this up-regulated nervous system.
4:56
Okay, so this is great,
4:57
because we're really, I mean, we're talking about
4:59
very ancestral biological concepts here,
5:03
because obviously nervous system regulation
5:05
is something we're all struggling with
5:07
in modern society right now.
5:09
But it's something,
5:10
ancestral that you probably,
5:13
I mean, I think we can all assume
5:15
that we would have these fight or flight moments,
5:17
but then we'd have a lot of downtime to self-regulate, right?
5:20
So we're very lopsided in modern life.
5:23
But we're also, I mean, this is making me think about the fact
5:27
that I've heard like people
5:31
when they're in extreme fight or flight situations,
5:34
particularly nowadays, they'll evacuate themselves.
5:38
This has got to be tied to it, right?
5:41
Yeah, so you're talking about like a full-down movement
5:44
or something like that. Like I've heard that happen
5:46
in war, I've heard that happen in extreme violence.
5:49
Yeah, and it can be the body's way of just saying,
5:52
I want to clear everything out.
5:54
So we can definitely see it kind of go that way too,
5:57
or we can see it as significant constipation
6:00
and because we're not getting into
6:03
that rest and digest portion of the nervous system
6:05
to be able to relax enough to move things through.
6:07
So we can definitely see things on either end of the spectrum
6:10
and we want to be kind of in the middle, right?
6:13
We have that normal flow of our nervous system
6:16
where we can have one to two bowel movements a day
6:19
would be normal and the bowel movement should be shaped
6:22
like a banana.
6:23
We want it to be soft but formed.
6:25
So if you are just like diarrhea,
6:27
we're clearing everything out,
6:28
that can be a sign of way too high of cortisol
6:30
and way too high of stress.
6:32
And then on the opposite end, if you're very constipated,
6:35
those tools are really hard-formed.
6:37
They look like little rocks coming out
6:38
and you have to bear down to get them out.
6:41
That is also not normal.
6:42
And so we want to find that having middle.
6:44
Yeah, I actually love that we're talking about this,
6:49
this, you know, in stool, the way things look.
6:51
So I'm always telling people like,
6:52
look, I know that on a certain level,
6:54
we're taught to think this stuff is gross,
6:55
but it's key, it's crucial to understanding
6:59
how your body is responding to your environment,
7:02
how it's responding to what you're feeding it.
7:04
You have to look, after going to the bathroom,
7:07
you need to look and see what is it look like?
7:09
Is there blood? Is there this?
7:10
Is it, you know, it's going to give you more information
7:13
than anything else you do?
7:15
And as a parent, I am a mom of three with my fourth
7:18
do any day now and I have that open conversation
7:23
with my kids.
7:24
Of course, when you're potty trading them,
7:26
it's very normal because you're in there with them
7:28
and so you're seeing their bowel movements,
7:30
but I quickly learned my oldest is six now.
7:33
And so she's in kindergarten
7:36
and even when she became very independent
7:39
and she potty trained by two, she was like independent
7:42
and I started to think, okay,
7:45
I need to know what's going on with her stool still
7:48
because is she constipated?
7:49
Is she going every day?
7:50
Because it's really easy to lose tabs on that
7:52
as a parent as her kid ages.
7:54
And so just, it's not something weird to talk about
7:58
is a very common bodily function
8:01
that we should be having every day.
8:03
And if your child isn't, we do want to consider things like,
8:06
are they getting enough magnesium in their diet?
8:09
In the summer, it can be easy to be more constipated
8:12
just because you're sweating more.
8:14
And so making sure you're replenishing
8:15
the body's electrolytes.
8:17
And so that's something as a parent,
8:19
I really encourage you if you have children
8:21
to just be very open with your kids about like,
8:24
have you won number two yet today
8:26
or just make it kind of a natural part of life
8:30
so that it's at the forefront of their mind too.
8:32
If they are not going like by daughter at one point
8:35
this summer was like, mommy, my tummy kind of hurts
8:38
and I don't think I've gotten number two yesterday
8:40
or today and I was like, okay, like,
8:42
so I did an abdominal massage on her with magnesium lotion.
8:47
Our colon empties on the left side of our abdomen.
8:50
So you want to start in the right lower quadrant,
8:53
stroke upwards and then strike underneath the diaphragm
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and then down on the left to facilitate the emptying
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of the colon, which is where our stool forms.
9:02
And magnesium helps those stools to soften.
9:05
So if somebody is constipated where their bows
9:08
are a little bit backed up, magnesium,
9:10
especially topically right over the digestive tract
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can be really helpful for stimulating
9:15
that parastelosis to move things through.
9:17
So we did that and then I gave her some electrolytes.
9:20
You can use coconut water with kids
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with a squeeze of orange juice
9:24
and then some good quality salt or we use element.
9:29
I'll give them like half a packet of that.
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So there's a lot of good options
9:32
and then she was able to clear everything out
9:34
and was totally fine.
9:36
That's great.
9:37
I mean, what great tips?
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I mean, from the massage to the magnesium,
9:41
this is really helpful for parents and individuals
9:46
that can right away apply these very natural,
9:49
very kind of just human results.
9:55
You don't have to go to the doctor,
9:57
you don't have to necessarily go and take some weird
10:00
pharmaceutical, you could just use
10:01
what your body and what nature provides.
10:08
I think it's fascinating that you don't really hear
10:12
the pelvic floor discussed until you've had a child.
10:16
Why do you think A, it's not talked about much
10:18
and then B, why are we talking about it only postpartum?
10:22
Yeah, that's a great question.
10:23
I think the mind gets drawn to a postpartum
10:25
because most women have vaginal deliveries
10:28
and those muscles have to expand to allow a child
10:31
to move through them and so trauma is certainly
10:34
involved with childbirth and then postpartum
10:37
and so that is why it is most talked about there
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but we don't have to wait for a traumatic event to occur.
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I don't mean that birth is trauma in a bad way
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but it's a huge bodily change in this huge expansion
10:51
in your body and it can cause trauma, right?
10:54
So that is why it gets brought to the forefront
10:57
of the mind there but my whole approach is really proactive
11:00
and so as a physical therapist
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I started out in sports medicine.
11:04
I was treating professional and division one athletes
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as well as regular men and women like ourselves
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and I saw a lot of women who were postpartum
11:14
getting back into running or crossfit
11:16
or whatever sport it may be
11:19
and they would have hip laboral tears,
11:22
they would have terrible sciatica,
11:24
they would have low back pain, they would have leakage
11:26
and I at the time didn't have children yet
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and I was like, I do not want that to be my story.
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So I started diving into things
11:35
from a preconception standpoint and realized
11:38
I actually did have underlying pelvic floor issues myself.
11:41
I had been a four sport athlete in high school.
11:44
I had struggled with urinary leakage with running
11:47
way before kids, this was in high school
11:50
but I was told that was normal.
11:51
I was told it was normal to pierce pants
11:53
during a cross country race because that meant
11:56
you left it all out on the course
11:59
and everyone on our team had an extra pair of shorts
12:03
that we would change into afterwards was normalized.
12:06
And so I quickly realized, okay, that wasn't normal.
12:10
It was my muscles not functioning properly.
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And so I started to become my own first patient
12:15
in the pelvic floor space and learned how to relax
12:18
those muscles kind of coming back to that first topic
12:21
so that they oscillate with your breath
12:23
and then I was able to think about
12:26
the surrounding muscles of our pelvis.
12:28
Like how do we strengthen our hips and our glutes
12:31
so we can off load those pelvic floor muscles
12:33
because a lot of times we're just thinking
12:35
about working like your main movers,
12:38
like your glute max and your quads and your hamstrings
12:40
but there's all these little stabilizing muscles
12:42
in our pelvis that we often times forget about
12:45
that can help support the pelvic floor.
12:47
So I dove into that.
12:48
And so really coming at things from even before kiddos approach
12:53
and then during pregnancy learning to support the pelvic floor
12:56
because whether you have a vaginal delivery or a C section,
13:00
your pelvic floor muscles are taking on extra load
13:03
that entire pregnancy as baby grows, right?
13:06
I am currently 38 weeks pregnant as we are recording this
13:10
and I am 27 pounds heavier than what I was
13:14
before I got pregnant, right?
13:15
I am like walking around with almost a 30 pound weight invest
13:19
all the time and that starts to take its toll
13:21
on the pelvic floor muscles, right?
13:24
And so again, I think that's why the brain is brought to that area
13:29
during pregnancy and then postpartum
13:31
but really we can look at the pelvic floor
13:33
from a proactive lens across the lifespan
13:36
and then it can better avoid issues
13:40
in terms of trauma to the pelvic floor with labor and delivery.
13:43
So my whole goal with my patients that I work with during preconception
13:48
then pregnancy is to repair the pelvic floor for labor and delivery
13:52
so we can reduce risk of tearing.
13:55
So often, you know, it's not brought to a woman's attention
13:58
until she's had an episiotomy where they've cut the pelvic floor muscles
14:02
or she's had a significant tear during childbirth
14:05
with stitches put in that then they're referred to pelvic floor PT
14:09
and a lot of my patients are self-referring.
14:12
I'm a doctor in my field.
14:14
You don't need a referral to see me and they're self-referring
14:17
because they're like, I want to avoid tearing.
14:19
I don't want to come to you because I had an injury in birth
14:22
and I want to prepare for birth.
14:24
Avoid injury, have a successful, vaginal, natural delivery
14:29
and avoid significant tearing and scarring
14:33
and set my self up for a more ease-filled postpartum experience.
14:36
Yeah, that's a great tip, you know, just for everyone out there
14:40
to be thinking ahead of the game, you know,
14:42
versus waiting till they actually truly need you, you know,
14:45
like, but to really be thinking about, hey, this is preventative.
14:48
What do you think this is all stemming from?
14:50
Because I got to, I got to tend to default
14:53
that the human body was designed perfectly, you know, beautifully.
14:56
And I mean, the nature had it right, you know,
14:59
or source, whatever you see it as, like that had it right.
15:04
So why are we having so many issues?
15:08
It's a really good question.
15:09
I mean, I am a faith-filled person
15:14
and identify, you know, as a Catholic and Christianity
15:18
and honestly, my mind goes back all the way to Adam and Eve.
15:20
Like, if we think about, you know, when they ate
15:24
from the forbidden tree and then they realized they were naked
15:27
and they had to cover up, right?
15:28
We think of the pelvic floor that was an area
15:30
and both males and females that was covered up.
15:33
And so it did just become this area
15:36
that wasn't talked about as much, right?
15:38
And I think naturally so, just because it's not like a biceps
15:42
or a quad that like we physically see all the time,
15:45
it's always covered up.
15:46
And so it makes sense that we would have a little bit more
15:49
reservation around talking about our private areas.
15:53
There's definitely, you know, a sense of intimacy in that.
15:58
But also understanding, God gave us a pelvis
16:02
and God gave us a pelvic floor
16:03
and it is a natural part of our body
16:07
and it does need to be supported just like anywhere else, you know?
16:10
And so I think just letting go of the awkwardness of it
16:13
and the stigma of it and it's okay to talk
16:16
about having issues in that area.
16:18
And the other thing that I think makes it challenging
16:22
to talk about pelvic health concerns is our medical system.
16:27
So I worked in the traditional medical system
16:30
for five years before starting my own practice
16:33
and I was in a clinic of 40 other practitioners,
16:36
huge open space.
16:37
Again, we saw professional athletes,
16:39
division one athletes and then regular men and women
16:42
and like all the way down to junior high athletes,
16:44
out of lessons.
16:45
We had treatment tables about three feet apart
16:48
all throughout the clinic.
16:49
And so it's really hard for somebody to open up
16:51
about having leakage when they run
16:54
or pain with intimacy.
16:56
When they're coming in for hit pain
16:58
and there's somebody sitting at three feet
16:59
to the right of them who they don't know, right?
17:04
So having just trust with your provider,
17:06
I think is a big part of this
17:08
because it is an intimate area.
17:09
And so in starting my own practice,
17:11
I really created like a very holistic calming space.
17:14
I tell my clients I want you to feel like
17:16
you're at a holistic spa and not at a sterile medical clinic.
17:20
They sit in a comfortable chair, you know,
17:23
and we start and it's only them and I in that room.
17:27
There's not somebody sitting a few feet away
17:29
who's hearing what they're talking about.
17:31
And so they have a safe space to open up.
17:34
And I give a full hour to each patient as well.
17:37
The other thing in the traditional medical system,
17:39
if you're seeing your doctor,
17:41
they have patients every 15 minutes.
17:43
If you're seeing a physical therapist
17:44
in an insurance-based setting,
17:46
they're having patients every 30 to 45 minutes,
17:48
usually sometimes overlapping patients.
17:51
You're lucky if you get that therapist for a full hour.
17:53
And so that just creates an environment
17:56
where there's not time to unpack those harder
17:59
to talk about areas.
18:01
You mentioned breathing earlier in the episode.
18:06
Do you think that the issues as well,
18:11
stem from just, at least how I imagine,
18:16
is incestually like, we didn't have as much stimulus
18:21
affecting our breath all the time.
18:23
You know, or limiting our breath,
18:25
or like the trauma that I think,
18:28
beyond trauma of experience,
18:30
I'm talking like trauma of like light exposure
18:35
to EMFs to these unseen things
18:39
that are constantly happening to us,
18:41
whether it's toxins in our air and our water and our food
18:44
to the waves that are constantly bombarding our body, right?
18:49
So there's those kind of things,
18:51
let alone actual physical and emotional traumas
18:54
that are happening due to other humans.
18:58
But I have to wonder if our diaphragms have gotten tighter
19:03
and tighter from modern living,
19:05
from the way the path humanity is on.
19:08
So if you agree, like,
19:11
what are some things people can start doing immediately,
19:14
upon hearing this podcast,
19:17
where they can start affecting their breath
19:19
to support their nervous system
19:22
to be kind of retap that ancestral nervous system?
19:26
Yeah, and you're so right.
19:27
I see all the time in the clinic
19:29
when I assess somebody's breathing
19:31
that they can't access that diaphragm
19:33
because they're so used to breathing into their upper chest.
19:36
And so sometimes that looks like doing myelofacial release
19:39
of the diaphragm and a way you could do that on yourself
19:42
would be to just lay on your back, both knees bent,
19:45
so that your low back is flat with whatever surface
19:47
you're laying on, your tummy is nice and relaxed,
19:50
and you're just gonna go in with broad finger tips
19:53
right underneath your ribcage angle and massage
19:56
because that's where your diaphragm lives,
19:58
arcs up right underneath that ribcage angle.
20:01
And you just massage and you might notice
20:04
that there's tender spots.
20:05
That tender spot is an area of myelofacial tension,
20:09
meaning muscle and fascia.
20:11
And fascia is really this like spider web network
20:13
that is all throughout our entire body.
20:15
And when we hold tension in that fascia,
20:17
we just can't fully relax and open through that muscle.
20:21
So you can try self-massaging that area.
20:24
If you're like, I don't know what I'm doing,
20:26
then you can definitely reach out to a public
20:28
for a physical therapist local to you.
20:31
I am in Ohio, I also see clients virtually
20:34
and a lot of times my virtual clients,
20:36
it's like a one time visit
20:39
where I'm just giving them a ton of education
20:41
because it's a video call.
20:42
And so I can see what they're doing.
20:43
I'm like, no, put your hands a little bit higher,
20:45
make your fingertips a little bit broader,
20:47
go a little bit deeper on your pressure.
20:49
What do you feel now?
20:50
Oh, now I'm feeling a tender spot.
20:51
And okay, keep massaging there.
20:54
And the other thing is we want to get deep into those layers.
20:57
And so you might be on one trigger point,
21:00
which is that area of increased balled up tension
21:03
for 60 to 90 seconds before you move on
21:06
and find another one.
21:07
And so I like to tell people,
21:08
it's kind of like peeling away layers of an onion.
21:10
You're not gonna just like get there with one fell swoop,
21:14
like it's going to take layers upon layers
21:17
of releasing tension to get that muscle to fully relax.
21:20
And so day one, you might release three trigger points, right?
21:24
Well, the next day you do it, you might release three more.
21:26
And so we start peeling away the layers.
21:29
Then after you do the mild fashion release,
21:31
you want to practice the deep breathing.
21:33
And so we can all do this together now.
21:36
You're gonna place one hand on your chest
21:37
and one hand on your belly.
21:39
If you're sitting, that's fine.
21:40
If you're standing, walking, totally fine.
21:43
But if you have the ability to lay down,
21:45
I invite you to do so.
21:46
And as you inhale, I want you to notice
21:49
which hand moves first.
21:51
Do you feel that top hand move first in your chest?
21:54
Or do you feel that hand on your belly expand first?
21:58
And as you inhale, as you keep breathing here,
22:01
I want you to see if you can just get that bottom hand
22:03
to expand.
22:05
Then your belly inflate with air, side ribs, low back,
22:08
moneying the air move all the way down through your pelvis.
22:11
As you exhale, think of a balloon losing its air,
22:14
gently recoiling in all directions
22:16
as the air moves up and out.
22:19
As we inhale through our nose, our jaw stays relaxed,
22:23
belly, side ribs, low back, pelvic floor, all expand
22:27
like a balloon filling with air.
22:29
And then as we exhale, we feel that gentle recoil
22:32
in all directions.
22:34
Now as you practice this type of breathing,
22:36
I invite you to close your eyes, like I said,
22:39
just really tune in with your body.
22:41
And sometimes we have to practice it in different positions,
22:43
lying down on your back with knees bent.
22:45
It's always my starting position
22:47
because it can be most relaxed.
22:49
But that belly's having to expand against gravity.
22:51
And so if you're having a hard time with that belly
22:53
expansion, flip over onto your hands and your knees.
22:56
Now gravity's pulling belly down.
22:58
So it can be much easier to relax the belly there.
23:01
You just don't get that tactile feeling of like hand
23:04
on your chest and on your belly.
23:06
You practice it in sitting.
23:07
When you're in sitting, now gravity's pulling
23:08
the pelvic floor down.
23:10
And so if you're having trouble feeling the pelvic floor move,
23:12
sitting and really finding those sit bones
23:15
on your sitting surface and feeling that pelvic floor
23:17
descend into your sitting surface can be really helpful.
23:21
And I invite you to practice that for two to three minutes,
23:25
three times a day.
23:27
So do it once before or after breakfast, lunch, and then dinner.
23:31
And whenever we sprinkle that in throughout the day,
23:33
it's going to give the nervous system those times of calm
23:36
to your point of we're constantly
23:39
bombarded with information and go, go, go.
23:43
But when we invite moments of calm sprinkled
23:45
in throughout the day, it gives that nervous system a reset
23:49
to then stay in that reset for a little bit
23:52
before we get up-regulated again.
23:54
And with my clients, I invite them to habit stack it
23:57
with something they're already doing as well.
24:00
So every time you're at a stoplight instead of being tense
24:03
and frustrated because this traffic is slowing you down
24:06
from getting where you want to go,
24:08
take two to three deep breaths, okay?
24:10
So what we just described, what we just practiced there
24:13
is true diaphragmatic breathing.
24:16
So sprinkle that in throughout your day
24:18
that will help calm the nervous system.
24:19
Because again, it links up with that vagus nerve
24:21
every deep breath we take.
24:23
But it's also physically massaging
24:25
those internal abdominal organs, releasing tension
24:28
in the pelvic floor has this whole cascade
24:30
of positive effects throughout the body.
24:32
I love this and I think I would welcome everyone too
24:36
to recognize that let's just say you're like,
24:39
oh, but when I'm looking at my social media,
24:41
I feel like I'm breathing fine
24:43
and I'm in parasympathetic mode.
24:45
And I'm like, I don't think so.
24:47
Like I think this is a really good gauge of like,
24:49
check where you're actually breathing
24:51
when you're doing these things that are very tech heavy
24:54
that you think are relaxing.
24:56
Because what's happening is typically
24:58
your body is being affected in a way
25:00
that you're not acknowledging and or feeling.
25:03
And so I would almost welcome like,
25:05
hey, the next time you're in line
25:07
and you're like your knee jerk reaction
25:10
is to open your phone and to go to that social media
25:15
is to put it away and actually just practice this breathing
25:18
because it's very, very different.
25:21
Or do two to three deep breaths first, right?
25:24
To calm that nervous system, then maybe check your phone
25:27
and then notice like, oh yeah, now I like 10 stop
25:30
I'm breathing more into my chest, down, regulate,
25:33
cure yourself to be able to continue that diaphragmatic breathing
25:36
even as you're doing a more stimulating activity.
25:39
Because we can train our nervous systems
25:41
just like we train our muscles.
25:42
So that's a really good practice to implement as well.
25:45
Is there something to innocence like box breathing
25:49
where you're making sure that the amount of time
25:52
you're breathing in matches or doesn't,
25:57
maybe that's kind of the question is,
25:59
should it match or should it not the out breath as well?
26:02
Because I noticed even like last night
26:05
for the first time I was when I was laying in bed
26:08
with my wife, I noticed she was breathing in longer
26:13
than she was breathing out.
26:14
And I said, hey, you know, I asked her just straight up,
26:17
would you like, would you be willing just to try something
26:20
and like just try breathing out a little longer
26:23
or equally with how much you're breathing in
26:25
and she did and I felt her body relax more.
26:28
Oh yeah, that's, I love that you bring this up.
26:30
So it depends on what we're working on, but very few
26:34
and like no instances are coming to mind right now
26:37
times what I ever suggest that the inhale
26:39
should be longer than the exhale.
26:41
Because you're exactly right.
26:42
If our inhale is longer, we're pulling up tension
26:44
and then we're not letting it go.
26:46
We're not releasing, right?
26:48
So typically I am queuing that we want our exhale
26:51
to be twice as long as ever inhale.
26:55
When we are practicing the diaphragmatic breathing
26:57
and so as we inhale, we're really filling those lungs
27:00
with air, we're breathing all the way down
27:01
through our pelvis is what we're visualizing.
27:04
And then exhale, it's a slower recoil of everything up
27:09
and out because we don't want this forceful exhale
27:11
where we just bring back all the tension.
27:13
So if somebody is inhaling for five seconds,
27:16
then I cue them to exhale for 10 seconds.
27:19
Inhaling for six seconds, we're exhaling for 12.
27:21
Those are kind of the two ranges that I'm typically
27:24
working with people up to because sometimes initially
27:27
it's like three or four seconds in
27:29
and then it's like hard to make it longer than five seconds
27:32
out because people are so upregulated.
27:34
Now, box breathing has its own benefits
27:37
where if you're not familiar with box breathing,
27:39
you can kind of visualize a box where you're inhaling for,
27:42
let's say five seconds, you're holding your breath
27:44
for five seconds and you're exhaling for five seconds
27:47
and you might pause before repeating.
27:49
And that more so has the mindset piece
27:53
where you're really focused on what you're doing.
27:56
There's apps where you can watch something fill
27:58
with water or move across the screen.
28:01
So there's more of like a visualization aspect to that
28:04
where it can be helpful if somebody's minus spiraling
28:07
or they struggle with anxiety.
28:10
So that is more like that category,
28:13
but for me, especially in terms of the pelvic floor,
28:16
if we're working on strengthening it
28:17
or if we're working on down regulating it,
28:19
I'm more so focusing on the exhale being twice as long
28:22
as the inhale.
28:23
That's great.
28:25
And now let's touch base about,
28:27
you mentioned nose breathing when you're doing this.
28:29
So breathing in and out of the nose.
28:33
A lot of people are mouth breathers,
28:36
particularly as their heart rate increases
28:39
when they're doing any athletics,
28:41
but in general, of course, when they're sleeping,
28:43
sometimes they're mouth breathers.
28:44
So you hear a lot more about like mouth tape
28:46
to keep it closed.
28:48
Talk about that a bit.
28:50
Yeah, I mean, from like a pelvic floor standpoint,
28:56
I don't get into it too, too much.
28:58
Like I definitely will refer out to an airway specialist
29:01
if somebody is struggling with breathing through their nose,
29:05
like through the night or things like that.
29:08
Breathing through their mouth, you mean?
29:09
Breathing through their mouth.
29:10
Yes, thank you for clarifying.
29:11
Yeah, because we want to breathe through our nose,
29:13
but I am queuing it from a,
29:16
we want our jaw to be relaxed.
29:17
It's if we hold tension in our jaw,
29:21
we hold tension in our pelvic floor.
29:22
And so we want our mouth to be closed,
29:24
jaw relax, tongue gently resting on the roof of our mouth,
29:27
inhaling through our nose,
29:29
and then I will cue exhaling through our mouth
29:32
because if we're working on accessing the pelvic floor
29:36
from a strength standpoint,
29:38
when we exhale through our mouth,
29:39
we can purse our lips,
29:41
and it can be easier to connect with those muscles.
29:43
So we've talked about a lot about restful
29:46
diaphragmatic breathing,
29:47
but there's also the active form.
29:49
And so you bring up exercise.
29:51
That is when we would want more the active form of our breath.
29:54
So inhaling through our nose,
29:56
exhale exhaling,
29:57
we want to think about lifting from the pelvic floor
30:00
from the bottom up.
30:01
So you can think about as we inhale,
30:04
pelvic floor lowers,
30:05
as you exhale,
30:06
you want to think about wrapping that pelvic floor
30:09
around a marble.
30:10
So you think about closing that pelvic floor
30:12
around a marble and then lifting that marble up and in,
30:14
up and in, up and in as you breathe out.
30:16
And if you breathe out through purse lips,
30:19
it can make it easier to access those muscles
30:21
from a strength standpoint.
30:22
As you keep breathing out,
30:24
you'll also feel your core engage.
30:26
And this is where the core is very well linked up
30:28
with the pelvic floor.
30:30
We cannot get maximal core contraction
30:32
without the pelvic floor contracting first.
30:35
So if we're talking about weight lifters,
30:38
talking about crossfitters,
30:40
we want a good inhale down,
30:42
exhale lift that load,
30:44
pelvic floor lifts first,
30:46
it sets the base for our foundation.
30:49
And as we keep breathing out more forcefully
30:52
through our mouth,
30:53
we feel that core wrap and we exhale on the effort
30:55
as we rise up.
30:57
So there's a lot of nuances when it comes to the breathing
31:00
and I know you ask kind of about,
31:01
through the nose versus the mouth.
31:03
So we're never, never is there a time
31:04
where we're queuing to breathe in through the mouth,
31:08
always in through the nose,
31:09
but there are times where we breathe out through the mouth
31:11
because it helps us more forcefully access
31:13
our muscles during activity.
31:16
But at rest, we want that jaw relaxed,
31:19
close and just breathing in and out through our nose.
31:21
This is great.
31:22
Now you brought up the visualization of something,
31:25
you know, being held inside here.
31:27
And that brings up a question I have.
31:30
And admittedly, I know this can be
31:31
an insensitive subject for some people,
31:33
but I think it's one that's important to talk about
31:35
because everyone's hearing about this stuff,
31:37
but I don't know if everyone understands it.
31:39
So there's a couple of things I would love to now dive into.
31:42
One is kegels.
31:44
And another is like jade eggs and things like that.
31:47
Now this is obviously comes up a lot with postpartum,
31:52
like so after having a child,
31:55
but could you talk, let's just say first,
31:57
let's talk about kegels first.
31:59
Can you talk about A, what it is?
32:01
And then B, is it does it help?
32:03
Can you do too many things like that?
32:05
Absolutely.
32:06
So kegels were developed by a physician in the 1940s
32:10
for non-surgical treatment of the pelvic floor.
32:14
So that sounds great, right?
32:15
Initially, women's only option
32:17
if they were struggling with leakage or prolapse,
32:20
another big concern with women postpartum
32:22
where internal organs start prolapsing through
32:25
weak spots in the pelvic floor muscles.
32:27
And so they would do surgery
32:29
where they essentially tighten things up down there.
32:31
Well, that caused its own whole host of issues
32:34
and still does today.
32:35
But this surgeon was like, well, kegels
32:38
in his last name was kegel are an exercise
32:42
we can do for the pelvic floor.
32:43
And so a kegel is tightening of the pelvic floor muscles.
32:46
So usually women are told to act like
32:49
you're stopping the flow of urine.
32:51
So just sit, act like you're stopping the flow of urine.
32:54
Hold that for as long as you can and then let go.
32:59
Hold that for as long as you can and then let go.
33:01
The issue with this is that kegels
33:04
are only queued at rest.
33:06
And so sitting here right now,
33:07
as I was saying that I was doing a kegel.
33:10
Now, what that has taught women and males
33:14
if they're prescribed to them
33:16
is to just tighten the pelvic floor
33:18
and that that's like the only issue.
33:21
But if we think of the pelvic floor
33:22
like your biceps muscle
33:24
and the pelvic floor back to our earlier conversation
33:27
is already tight, it's already shortened.
33:30
It's like somebody walking around flexing their biceps
33:33
all the time.
33:34
And then you go and you say, okay,
33:36
I just want you to do bicep curls.
33:37
Just when you're sitting at rest,
33:39
just do some more bicep curls.
33:41
But they're never fully extending their arm
33:43
because they don't know how to.
33:45
All they know is holding it in this flex position.
33:48
What's that going to do?
33:49
It's going to further worsen the issue.
33:52
It's going to further shore in that muscle.
33:55
They will become strong through that very end range of motion,
33:59
right?
34:00
Because that pelvic floor started lifted
34:02
because they were upregulated
34:03
and then they're tightening it more with every kegel.
34:07
But it's not lengthening all the way.
34:09
And so that is my huge issue with kegels
34:12
is that we need to learn to lengthen the muscles
34:15
before we can strengthen it.
34:18
And that's exactly why the first part of this episode
34:20
we talked about nervous system regulation.
34:23
Learning to relax and lengthen those pelvic floor muscles
34:26
with your breath.
34:28
Then we can work on the active lifting
34:30
of the pelvic floor muscles,
34:32
which is the strengthening component.
34:34
So I am never prescribing just straight kegels,
34:37
which is simply the contraction of the pelvic floor muscles.
34:40
I am always first prescribing breath work
34:43
to lengthen the pelvic floor muscles
34:45
to get them back to their full range to start with.
34:49
And then we can work on strengthening,
34:51
but pairing it with functions.
34:53
We're going to pair it with the breath.
34:55
So on the exhale, we get that lift of the pelvic floor muscles.
34:58
And there's a lot of cues we can use.
35:00
I gave the cue of thinking about closing that vaginal opening
35:03
around a marble and lifting it up and in.
35:05
You can also think about stopping the flow of urine.
35:08
But with that, I find that sometimes people just
35:09
like tighten everything.
35:11
Another good cue, and this would be more for our males as well,
35:15
would be to pull your sit bones together.
35:18
And you can practice those different cues again on your exhale.
35:21
So inhaling your lengthening, lowering pelvic floor,
35:24
and then exhalting about pulling your sit bones together
35:27
as that breath moves up and out.
35:29
And then you'll feel your core kicking
35:31
as that air continues to lift out.
35:34
Then the next layer would be pairing that with activity.
35:36
So inhale, I squat down, exhale, I lift my laundry basket.
35:40
Inhale, I squat down, exhale, I lift my kid.
35:44
Then we can extrapolate that to further exercises.
35:47
And then your other question was about inserting something
35:51
into that vaginal opening.
35:52
Yes.
35:53
Did you like a jade egg or something?
35:55
Yeah, that's what I remember learning about that
35:57
when we had our first child.
35:58
Yes.
35:59
So are you talking about essentially like vaginal weights,
36:02
that kind of thing?
36:03
Yeah, exactly.
36:04
And then using the weight, but then I think you're also using it
36:07
as instead of visualizing something,
36:10
you actually have something there
36:12
that you're trying to contract the muscle over.
36:15
Yes, where you can get some biofeedback.
36:18
So that's a great question.
36:20
I think we have a lot of tools in today's modern society
36:24
that a lot of therapists enjoy using of,
36:27
oh, we have this fancy tool.
36:28
Let's use it.
36:30
I am much more of, to your point, the ancestral approach
36:33
of what were our bodies designed to do?
36:35
Where our bodies weren't really designed
36:37
to contract with something in it, other than with intimacy.
36:41
But that's different, if you're having that experience
36:46
where we're not just at rest,
36:48
practicing inserting something and contracting with that.
36:52
So it can be helpful if somebody's having a really hard time
36:55
with that brain to muscle connection,
36:57
but I never start there.
36:58
And in fact, do I rarely pull out those kinds of tools?
37:02
Because again, you're inserting a foreign object
37:06
and then you're working on contracting
37:08
and holding it up and in there.
37:11
And that's not something we're going to functionally
37:13
do in our daily life, right?
37:15
Again, outside of intimacy, but that
37:17
would be a relaxed experience, not something
37:19
where you're working on contracting
37:21
and holding something inside of you.
37:23
And so I think it deserves a lot of nuance to the conversation,
37:30
but starting with what our bodies were naturally given.
37:34
And so for me, it comes back to exactly what I was saying
37:36
before of not the kegel, but let's lengthen first, exhale,
37:39
engage and lift, and then we're progressing our movements.
37:43
So if somebody's goal is to get back to jumping
37:45
on a trampoline, well, I would rather
37:47
have her do five little jumps in the clinic working
37:52
on each exhale, we're lifting the pelvic floor
37:54
with those quick jumps in place of inserting a device
37:59
to work on just contracting at rest, if that makes sense.
38:03
Yeah, absolutely.
38:04
Now, though, it does make me wonder
38:07
about this very real, rarely talked about issues slash societal
38:15
shaming, I guess, for lack of a better word.
38:18
Where women get very worried about one side,
38:20
they have a child that their tightness of their vaginal wall
38:24
is no longer there or expanded.
38:25
So I know that people that is definitely something
38:30
that people experience and or are scared about.
38:34
And like I said, our potentially even shamed about in society
38:38
from particularly men, obviously.
38:41
And it's not cool.
38:42
Like I don't condone it.
38:43
I think it's absurd that women are scrutinized
38:46
the way they are in society.
38:47
I think it's truly, truly absurd.
38:51
But can you talk about that, like whether it's
38:54
to kind of like make the person that is scared of it,
38:59
reassured and empowered?
39:01
Or like, how is this something that's real?
39:04
Or is this more of like, no, the body will go back to the way
39:08
it is, you just have to support it.
39:10
Can you address that?
39:11
Yes.
39:12
Well, thank you for creating a space to talk about this
39:15
because I often see the opposite.
39:17
So you're right.
39:18
Like people think, oh, it's just going to be loose
39:20
and expanded afterwards.
39:22
Usually it tightens up.
39:24
So if we think about straining your hamstring muscle, right?
39:29
You're playing baseball or softball and you went for a ball
39:33
quick and you strained your muscle.
39:34
What happens afterwards?
39:36
It balls up.
39:37
That muscle balls up and then it's hard
39:39
to fully extend your leg.
39:41
Like you lose mobility in that muscle
39:43
because it just went through this huge expansion
39:46
and then it comes all back together.
39:48
That's what our pelvic floor essentially does.
39:50
It goes through this huge expansion
39:52
and then it tightens back up and comes back together
39:55
and gets on guard.
39:56
And so I actually typically see the opposite
39:59
where women's pelvic floors are tight postpartum
40:02
in regards to just being very upregulated.
40:07
So I just want to encourage any woman listening
40:11
who hasn't had children or anybody who has felt
40:13
just like shame around the change in their area.
40:17
Post delivery is that A, it's normal for our body
40:21
to deliver children and to change
40:23
that's a beautiful part of life.
40:25
But B, those muscles are meant to expand
40:28
and then come back together.
40:30
Anatomically speaking, our pelvic floor
40:32
has a circular muscle.
40:33
So the vaginal opening is circular.
40:36
It's called a sphincter.
40:37
The only other areas we have that are at our anal opening
40:40
for bowel movements and then around our mouth.
40:43
And so those muscles work different
40:45
than just like a biceps muscle or hamstring muscle
40:48
that are just long muscle fibers
40:51
where they can only expand in one direction.
40:54
A circular muscle is meant to expand in all directions.
40:57
Think about a baby's head, right?
40:59
Like that is a circular area coming through that birth canal.
41:03
And so it's meant to expand.
41:05
It's meant to come back together
41:06
just like any other muscle.
41:08
The other tidbit I'll give there is think about
41:11
if your goal was to do splits.
41:13
What are you going to do leading up to that goal?
41:15
You are going to stretch your hamstrings
41:17
and your hip flexors stretching and stretching
41:20
to allow your body to be able to do the splits.
41:23
Does that mean your hamstring muscle
41:24
isn't as effective anymore?
41:26
Or that you can't be as athletic anymore
41:30
because now you've lengthened that muscle?
41:33
No, in fact, it's going to actually help you be more athletic
41:36
because that muscle has a greater range.
41:38
So thinking of the pelvic floor like that.
41:42
I love it, that's such a great analogy to it.
41:44
And definitely helping to ease people's minds
41:48
and concerns around that.
41:51
Before we go, I want to address
41:55
C-section, because we've talked a lot about natural birth.
41:59
Obviously, you did briefly mention it.
42:01
When you're getting sliced into your abdominal muscles,
42:05
there's scar tissue that comes up.
42:08
I mean, there's so much emotional trauma
42:13
that happens for women sometimes,
42:15
particularly when they didn't want a C-section.
42:20
How can people listening who have had that
42:23
or are concerned about that?
42:24
How can they address that specific procedure
42:28
in recovery around that?
42:30
Yeah, absolutely.
42:31
So during a C-section, eight layers of tissue
42:34
are cut through in order to access baby and deliver baby.
42:38
And then when a woman has stitches
42:40
in all of those deep layers, right?
42:42
And so oftentimes we just see the scar on the outside,
42:44
but we forget that there are seven additional layers
42:47
beneath that skin layer that are also affected
42:51
and needed to be stitched together.
42:53
And so there's healing that occurs on various levels.
42:55
And we need to make sure we're addressing the scar tissue.
42:58
So with every other surgery that has a scar like that,
43:03
a woman or male would be referred to physical therapy.
43:06
After a C-section, most women are not automatically referred
43:09
to PT. No, rarely, I think.
43:12
Yeah, rarely.
43:13
The only time they're referred
43:14
is if there was a complication typically,
43:16
or if they have like key Lloyd scarring
43:18
and the woman asks about it at her six week post-op check
43:22
and they're like, oh, you could do pelvic floor PT,
43:24
but it is not a gold standard referral in the United States.
43:29
Now in Europe, every single woman is referred
43:33
to pelvic floor physical therapy postpartum,
43:36
whether they have had a vaginal or a cesarean delivery
43:39
and they are typically receiving 10 to 20 visits postpartum.
43:44
Let that sink in.
43:45
Here in the United States, women are not given them
43:48
on an automatic referral no matter what form of delivery they have had
43:51
when every single woman would benefit from postpartum
43:55
physical therapy.
43:56
That makes me so frustrated.
43:58
I feel like we talk about America pride so much, you know,
44:03
and just America first.
44:05
But the reality is is that the US does not have Americans backs.
44:09
It's like you go to Europe and now you're sharing this information,
44:12
but I remember when I went and we had a procedure done due
44:17
to an accident that we were given an antibiotic and a probiotic
44:22
that went with it.
44:23
Like there was a holistic and a thought process of like beginning
44:27
to end and that's what I hear you're saying right now
44:29
when someone has a cesarean.
44:31
It's like they're thinking of it from beginning to end
44:34
and they're supporting the body holistically.
44:37
And it's like why we have the capacity to do that?
44:39
Why are we not doing that?
44:41
We have a long way to go when it comes to health care
44:43
and that's why I stepped outside of the traditional medical system
44:46
and opened my own practice because I wanted to be able to operate
44:49
outside of the confines of the medical system
44:52
or the insurance system here in the United States.
44:55
It's very challenging.
44:56
And so again, like many of most of my patients self-refer
45:00
and you know, they want to stay ahead of the game.
45:04
They want to have future children.
45:05
So if you have a cesarean section, you know, there is scarring
45:09
and so it's very important that we work on that scar tissue
45:12
especially if you want future children, right?
45:15
Because it can, these sections can affect fertility
45:18
and that's never talked about, you know.
45:21
So we work on the scar tissue with scar tissue mobilization
45:24
and we can do that with our fingertips
45:27
but we also utilize things like dry needling and cupping
45:30
and for a woman at home listening who's like,
45:33
I have a scar tissue that I've never worked on from a cesection.
45:37
A lot of times those tissues are really sensitive
45:39
and so once your stitches have healed,
45:42
you know, around four to six weeks postpartum,
45:44
you can start rubbing different materials around
45:48
and on your scar and so you can do something soft
45:51
like silk or a plush blanket
45:53
and then you can do something a little firmer like a lufa.
45:57
Just rubbing different materials on it
45:58
will help normalize the nerves to touch again.
46:02
Again, just like any kind of knee surgery or something
46:04
like that, we need to rewire the nerves around the area.
46:08
So that's one thing and then cross friction massage
46:12
which is where you come in contact with that scar,
46:14
you overlap your pointer finger
46:16
and then your middle finger on that scar
46:17
and you're gonna move that scar tissue around.
46:20
What's really cool about this
46:21
is you're essentially moving that skin on those healing layers
46:25
beneath it and so as you do that,
46:27
you can actually feel adhesions break up
46:29
and it might feel like bubble wrap popping.
46:31
You can literally feel this popping beneath the surface.
46:34
It's the nerd and me being like, it's so cool.
46:38
But I like to mention that because patients
46:40
if they feel that they're like, oh my gosh,
46:41
what just snapped?
46:42
Did I break something?
46:44
Yeah, I heard something and it's like, no, no, no,
46:46
you just alleviated scar tissue.
46:48
Like you just broke up scar tissue.
46:50
So it's really cool for people to feel that themselves
46:54
because they understand like, oh wow,
46:55
like I'm actually making a change in my body
46:58
and so that's one point of it
47:00
and then the other thing would be obviously
47:02
core rehabilitation, any time muscles are cut through,
47:06
that's going to impact the muscle fibers
47:08
and our ability to access them.
47:09
And so I will see a lot of women struggling
47:11
to access the lower core after C section.
47:15
And so that's again, working through
47:17
I highly recommend public floor physical therapy
47:19
or if that's not accessible to you,
47:22
I did create an online postpartum program
47:26
to walk women through the healing stages of postpartum
47:29
because the reality is when you have a newborn,
47:32
you do need to rest and so it's hard
47:34
to get out of the house for appointments
47:36
but you can literally start healing your body from day one.
47:38
And so my postpartum program starts week one.
47:42
You can begin it whether you have a vaginal delivery
47:45
or a cesarean delivery and you simply press play
47:48
and you can be from the comfort of home.
47:50
My baby is with me and all of the videos
47:52
I recorded it during my own postpartum
47:54
with my third child and it's so nice
47:57
because you can do it in bed.
47:58
You can do it on the floor of your nursery.
48:01
If you need to press pause to breastfeed your baby,
48:03
you can do so and then you can come right back to it.
48:06
So I really encourage women to start that program week one
48:10
or you had some complications.
48:12
Maybe you start at week three or four
48:13
and that's totally fine.
48:15
And then it goes through 12 weeks of programming
48:18
to progressively build upon
48:20
reaccessing and healing those muscles.
48:22
That's fantastic.
48:24
Final question.
48:26
It's when I ask all my guests.
48:28
If you could wave a magic wand
48:30
and bring back one ancestral practice, what would it be?
48:35
Oh, I love this.
48:38
Hmm.
48:41
I would say just more time outdoors.
48:43
You know, so much of our life now is lived indoors
48:47
and for just if our schools were able to have
48:50
like outdoor classrooms, right?
48:53
For kids to learn outdoors throughout the day,
48:56
anytime the weather's appropriate,
48:58
but even when it's not to have like,
48:59
okay, we're going to bundle up and this class,
49:02
we always go outside and even just within our work environments
49:07
having outdoor space and that being more of a regular part
49:11
of our routine would be amazing.
49:14
And that natural sunlight just has so many positive effects
49:18
on our circadian rhythm and on our nervous system
49:21
and then fresh air.
49:23
Outdoor air quality is always better
49:25
than our indoor air quality.
49:26
And so for both myself and them for my children,
49:29
that would be a magic wand that would arrive.
49:32
Love it.
49:33
Well, Dr. Kayla, thank you so much for joining us
49:35
and congratulations on your impending birth.
49:40
And by the time this airs,
49:41
you will have birth at beautiful new child.
49:44
So many just loving thoughts and energy towards you
49:50
in having this birth.
49:53
Where can you mention your program?
49:56
Obviously you have virtual ways people can see you.
49:59
So where should people go to learn more
50:02
about these programs?
50:04
Absolutely.
50:04
So if you go to drklabortures.com,
50:07
you will find my preconception, pregnancy
50:10
and postpartum online program.
50:12
So they're all self-paced.
50:13
You get lifetime access and I did develop one
50:16
for each of those seasons of life.
50:19
And then you'll also see the option
50:21
to work with me or my team one on one.
50:25
But the programs are really just so much love
50:29
poured into them for you to be able to access
50:32
from the comfort of your own home.
50:34
And if you wanna get a feel for working together,
50:37
you can go to drklabortures.com slash resources.
50:40
I have free guides specific to preconception,
50:43
pregnancy and postpartum as well.
50:45
And then I'm at Dr. Kayla Bortures on Instagram.
50:48
So you can come say hi to me there.
50:50
And then I had James as a guest on my episode
50:54
holistically well.
50:55
So I have a podcast as well.
50:57
So be sure to check that out too.
51:00
Excellent.
51:01
Well, thank you so much for joining us
51:02
and for sharing just such amazing information
51:05
that I believe will help everyone,
51:07
whether they've had a baby or not.
51:09
I think we covered a lot of really, really good value topics.
51:15
Thank you all for joining us on this episode ever
51:17
day ancestral.
51:19
If you enjoyed the episode, make sure you like,
51:21
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51:25
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51:28
But if there's topics you want us to cover,
51:30
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51:30
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51:33
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51:39
But thank you all and remember, stay curious.
51:42
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51:47
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51:55
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51:56
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52:02
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52:06
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52:07
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