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Katie Woolf spoke with Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now is the opposition
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: leader leofan Occhiaro.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Good morning, Leah, Good morning Katie, and good morning to
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: your listener.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Have you recovered from those crocodile races yesterday?
• 0:08
  Speaker 4: Oh gosh, wasn't that exciting? I loved it.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: It's such a uniquely territory way to spend Melbourne Cup.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Isn't it.
• 0:16
  Speaker 4: I'll never get over that croak of ship didn't win.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I know, well it happens, you know, many of us
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: lose on Melbourne.
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  Speaker 3: Cup next year. That's right.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Let's get into some of the issues that we
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: are keeping an eye on at the moment. Now.
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  Speaker 3: One of those is, of course the budget.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: We know that the Northern Territory budget is going to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: be handed down next week. We asked the Chief Minister
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: about it on the show on Monday and I had
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  Speaker 1: said to him that we know when the federal budget
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  Speaker 1: was handed down that there was certainly some pretty tough
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: figures to swallow. And he had said to me that, yes,
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  Speaker 1: Josh Fridenberg had had delivered that budget and said that
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  Speaker 1: there would be eyewatering numbers. He didn't say the word
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: eyewatering for the Northern territory, but he did say it's
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: going to be.
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  Speaker 3: A tough one.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, this is going to be very interesting. Of course,
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  Speaker 2: what people need to remember, and what the government wants
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  Speaker 2: people to forget, is that our debt was blown well
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  Speaker 2: and truly before COVID, and that's been a big part
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  Speaker 2: of the problem in the government's inability to provide as
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: comprehensive a response as it could. Our debt was already
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: through the roof, and the government so much so. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: we all remember those couple of weeks before Christmas when
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: the treasure when the Chief Minister and the Treasurer told
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: us we might have a thirty.
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  Speaker 4: Five billion dollar debt.
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  Speaker 2: And since then we've had the Langolan Review commissioned by
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  Speaker 2: the government to tell them how to have budget repair.
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  Speaker 2: Of course we've seen the government fail to really implement
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  Speaker 2: any budget repair measures and then bang COVID hits us,
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  Speaker 2: and the government's in even a worse position because of
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  Speaker 2: course it's had to spend more, which we understand, it's
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: had to take stimulus, which is very very important. So
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  Speaker 2: who knows what next week is going to look like.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: But one thing that we are looking for is a
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  Speaker 2: plan out of it. It's not okay to just continue
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  Speaker 2: to blame COVID. It's not okay to just say, oh, well,
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  Speaker 2: the federal budget and it's really bad too, don't look
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: at us. They've got to have a clear plan for
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: both economic growth and budget repair going forward.
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  Speaker 1: Leah, do you think that there needs to also be
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  Speaker 1: stimulus measures put in place? I mean, we know that
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  Speaker 1: a lot of territorians are still doing it tough, and
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  Speaker 1: I think that this is going to be the hard
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  Speaker 1: juggle is we're all expecting some fairly.
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  Speaker 3: Eye watering figures or I am.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if the rest of the territory is,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm expecting some fairly eye watering figures. But then
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  Speaker 1: you also wonder whether there does need to be further
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: stimulus measures in order to keep things ticking along. Do
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  Speaker 1: you think that the government needs to go into further
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: debt to do that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, there of course needs to be continued stimulus
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: measures depending on how things are going and where those.
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  Speaker 4: Areas of most need are.
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  Speaker 2: So I think we can, of cause expect to see that,
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  Speaker 2: and whether or not those announcements are wrapped up in
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the budget or not will remain to be seen.
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  Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean.
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  Speaker 2: The government is able to get away with not having
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: a plan. I mean they need to. We've talked about
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: red tape, We've talked about approvals timeframes, We've talked about
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  Speaker 2: facilitating private sector investment. That is the only way we're
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  Speaker 2: going to get ourselves out of this mess about cuts.
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  Speaker 2: It's not about times of you know, clawing back whatever
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  Speaker 2: you can wherever you can. It's about being sensible, responsible
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  Speaker 2: and growing the piece of growing the pie itself so
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  Speaker 2: that we can bring more revenue in and create more
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  Speaker 2: opportunity for territory.
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  Speaker 1: Surely there does need to be a little bit of
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  Speaker 1: a raining in though. When we talk about the number
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  Speaker 1: of public servants that we've got in the Northern Territory,
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  Speaker 1: I mean we know that there are now twenty one thousand,
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  Speaker 1: eight hundred and thirty six full time equivalent public servants
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  Speaker 1: in the territory. The former Treasurer Nicole Madison did announce
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  Speaker 1: that that number would be capped at twenty one thousand,
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  Speaker 1: three hundred and ninety five, but the public service continues
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  Speaker 1: to grow.
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  Speaker 3: Does that really need to be implemented here?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, do they need to get serious about keeping
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  Speaker 1: that number at the cap that was recommended by Langolet.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Well, this is that's exactly right, Katie. I mean the
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  Speaker 2: Langlan review said there should be a cab. Of course,
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  Speaker 2: at that time we learned that the government borrow is
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  Speaker 2: about four million dollars a day just to pay the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: wages bill, which is clearly unsustainable. Service do an excellent job,
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  Speaker 2: and especially during COVID, we've seen incredible resources needed to
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  Speaker 2: be expended.
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  Speaker 4: But the government's setting its own rules.
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  Speaker 2: It's saying, yes, we're committed to budget repair, we're putting
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  Speaker 2: a cap, and then it's blowing the cap pre COVID
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: by two hundred plus and then now since COVID and
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  Speaker 2: another you know, just shy of fifty. There's no question
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  Speaker 2: we've needed more staff during this COVID to respond to
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  Speaker 2: the health crisis and the policing issues and everything that's
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  Speaker 2: come of it. But these issues are legacy issues, they
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  Speaker 2: are pre COVID issues, and if the government doesn't have
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  Speaker 2: a plan going forward, it doesn't give people confidence of
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  Speaker 2: what our future budget tree position's going to look like.
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  Speaker 3: Because, of course, I mean, what would your plan be.
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  Speaker 1: Would it be that as people are leaving you don't
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  Speaker 1: replace some how do you bring in like, how do
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  Speaker 1: you reign in that number of public service?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you look very carefully when you're you know, recruiting,
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  Speaker 2: do you need those people? Of course, in some areas
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  Speaker 2: of the public service we need technical staff and we're
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: actually short. In others there might be be more. Can
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  Speaker 2: you up skill, can you move people around? You know,
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  Speaker 2: can you reduce the size by natural attrition? These there
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: are all questions that governments have at their disposal. Of course,
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  Speaker 2: we can't leave services unmet, and no one wants to
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  Speaker 2: see that, and no one wants people to pack up
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  Speaker 2: and go. But of course we need to grow our economy.
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  Speaker 2: That is the single biggest issue that's going to help us.
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  Speaker 4: And the real issue.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, people sort of talk about an eight point
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  Speaker 2: two billion dollar debt and the size is so big
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  Speaker 2: that it's hard to relate at sometimes to just the
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  Speaker 2: average territory on the street. But if you think that
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  Speaker 2: the government's going to spend a lot of time, money
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  Speaker 2: and energy, borrowing money, paying back money, then it means
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  Speaker 2: it can't spend money in other areas, and critical services
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  Speaker 2: over time will eventually be the ones to suffer because
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  Speaker 2: the government doesn't have the money in the piggy bank
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  Speaker 2: to be able to spend when it needs to.
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about some of those critical services.
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  Speaker 1: And one of those that we heard about last week,
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  Speaker 1: and then we spoke in depth again about this on
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  Speaker 1: Monday this week with the Police Association's Paul McHugh is
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  Speaker 1: police numbers.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 1: He said that at the moment, those attrition rates are
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  Speaker 1: really quite high. He said that over the last three months,
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  Speaker 1: twenty nine office had left. He anticipates, he says, that
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it's about ten police officers a month that we're losing.
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  Speaker 1: Is that a concern to you hugely?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, those are astronomical numbers. We all hear about
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  Speaker 2: the five to eight a month, but if we're getting
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  Speaker 2: ten at the moment, that sense a really clear signal
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  Speaker 2: that something needs to be done. We need to ensure
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  Speaker 2: that our police feel supported, that they're able to be
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  Speaker 2: able to go and do that important job of keeping
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  Speaker 2: us safe every single day. And of course, you know,
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  Speaker 2: if we lose ten a month and aren't having the
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  Speaker 2: requisite number of recruit squads, then we're not even going
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  Speaker 2: to be meeting those attrition targets. And at a time
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  Speaker 2: when we need police more than ever before, both because
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  Speaker 2: of the crime situation and because of our border and
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  Speaker 2: airport obligations to keep people safe from COVID, there is
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  Speaker 2: huge strain on our force. And I think Paul was
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  Speaker 2: also saying that, you know, some of them are from retirement,
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  Speaker 2: but the bulk are from resignation, and we need to
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  Speaker 2: be understanding why police are leaving and.
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  Speaker 4: What we can do to stop that flow.
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  Speaker 3: Why do you think they're leaving.
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  Speaker 2: I think things are really tough at the moment. I
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  Speaker 2: think you know, police are really concerned about crime. I
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  Speaker 2: think they really feel like the government has not done
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  Speaker 2: them a service by changing the Youth Justice Act the
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  Speaker 2: way they have. I think COVID has just been an
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  Speaker 2: extra enormous.
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  Speaker 4: Unlimited burden upon them.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's issues are fatigue, as you often hear
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  Speaker 2: the Police Association say, and so it's something we need
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  Speaker 2: to look at. It's really important again, you know, going
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  Speaker 2: back to that sort of akin to the budget commentary.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we've had years of not having regular police
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  Speaker 2: recruit squads and cutbacks in that area and now it's
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  Speaker 2: coming home to roost. And so you know when you've
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  Speaker 2: got to be really forward thinking in your planning to
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  Speaker 2: ensure that the needs of the day are met and
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  Speaker 2: it's terribly sad to see ten police a months leaving Leah.
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  Speaker 1: One of our listeners has just messaged through and said,
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  Speaker 1: what would Leah do to get us out of the
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  Speaker 1: financial hardship?
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely, and thank you for your question.
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  Speaker 2: Look, we've said very clearly we would immediately put in
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  Speaker 2: place Territory Coordinator who would sit outside of government as
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: an independent statutory authority and be able to facilitate and
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  Speaker 2: fast track major project approvals by having the power to
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  Speaker 2: work through those government departments and get those things done.
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  Speaker 2: We've also said we would cut all approval time frames
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  Speaker 2: across government by fifty percent and pull those leaves of government.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we don't have much money, but we do
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  Speaker 2: have a powerful pen as a government. You have a
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  Speaker 2: pen that can change law, you have a pen that
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  Speaker 2: can change policy and get things moving. And we certainly
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  Speaker 2: would be looking to streamline everything for the private sector
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  Speaker 2: so that they can go out and have that ability
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  Speaker 2: to be agile and invest and do what they need
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  Speaker 2: to do, because it's only the private sector who's going
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  Speaker 2: to get us out of there.
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  Speaker 1: There does need to be a ragining in though of
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  Speaker 1: the spending.
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  Speaker 3: Doesn't there I mean.
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  Speaker 1: There does need to be some savings made at the moment,
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  Speaker 1: and that was clearly pointed out in the Langolent review.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, do we need to look at cutting the
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  Speaker 1: public service numbers?
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  Speaker 2: I don't think so, that's certainly not something we would
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: What we need to do is stop the waste for spending.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, we've seen a number of projects over the
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  Speaker 2: last four and a bit years which are just waste.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, there was I think was an eight hundred
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars spent on the Miley Point Museum Saga, and
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: you know there's a temporary fence sitting up there at
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the moment. God knows how much money they've spent on that.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Of course, you know that the shade structure of a
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  Speaker 2: Kavanagh Street that's got no shade, but the vines are
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: nearly at the top.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Now.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, there's any number of debacles that we've seen
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and wasteful spending and that's got to stop. The government's
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: got to recognize it's got to be more strategic and
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: how it spends money. It's got to be focused on
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the private sector.
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  Speaker 3: Does there need to.
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  Speaker 1: Be a wager's policy though as well a thousand dollar
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  Speaker 1: cap I mean, that was something that had been spoken about,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and that cap on how much people are getting in
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: terms of the pay crease annually within the public service.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, is that something that they.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Need to seriously be looking at at the moment we're
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: talking in the private sector. The majority of people that
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: work in the private sector at the moment, I've said
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: this time and time again have either taken a paydep
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: all lost their jobs. So is it fair then, you know,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: if public servants are getting significant pay increases each and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: every year.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Look, and I hear that comment to Katie. I mean,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: of course, you know, it's also easy for some people
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: to want to target the public service as well. I mean,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: they're out there every day doing their job. They've got
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: their house mortgages and their car loans and kids at
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: school and bills to pay. So I don't think, you know,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I really hate the divide. It shouldn't be in us
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and them type of situation. But as the Chief Minister
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: has you know, likes to brush this issue off. He
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: talks about, well, when we have the EBA negotiations, this
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: will be something we look at and the government need
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: to be looking at these at these different ways of.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: Dealing with it.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, all the information came from their own Langlan report.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: They can't now turn around and just sort of pretend
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: that that didn't happen. They're the ones who commissioned it,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: because they're the ones who got us in so much
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: trouble in the first place. So if this government doesn't
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: start changing its ways, we're in real strife. I mean,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: we've had design struct decis.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: You implement that one thousand dollar cap well, I.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Think it certainly has to be on the table, just
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: like a range of other measures, including living within your
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: means and opening our economy. I mean, my focus absolutely,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: without question, would be on the economic leavers.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's no question about it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Lea. Just finally, this morning, I know that the Country
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Liberal Party is calling for truancy officers to be introduced.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Can you talk us through exactly what they'd be doing
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and where they'd be based.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: So Labors scraps truancy officers and replace them with more
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: of a compliance based model. And that has meant that
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: there's been no compulsory attendance notices issued and none of
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: those type of formal mechanisms requiring kids to go to school.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Now we all want our kids to have the brightest
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: possible future, and we've got amazing schools and amazing.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: Teachers and stuff.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: But if our kids aren't in those classrooms, they're not
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: going to be able to get the information they need
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: to go on and have a really, you know, an
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: excellent opportunity at life. So we really hate to see
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: that there's been a seven percent drop in attendance over
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the period of the Gunner government. We attribute it to
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the scrapping of the truancy officers. We think they need
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to look at what they're doing. Clearly, it shows it's
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: not working. It's not okay to just have set and
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: forget policy. You know, they've got to be going back
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and working out new ways and getting kids into classrooms
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: because it's just so fundamental to their future.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Leah and Olkiaro, we are going to have to leave
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: it their opposition leader.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Always good to catch up with you. Thanks so much
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: for your time today.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Katie, and thank you to listeners.