Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'CSI' STAR ACTRESS ESCAPES VICIOUS STALKER, THREATENED WITH RAPE & MURDER

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'CSI' STAR ACTRESS ESCAPES VICIOUS STALKER, THREATENED WITH RAPE & MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen CSI Miami, Because I have and
0:14
Speaker 1: it's incredible. And one actress that is especially incredible is
0:20
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue. Now, what you may not know is that
0:26
Speaker 1: this screen star and her little daughter have been stalked,
0:35
Speaker 1: stalked with threats to rape and kill her, to rape
0:43
Speaker 1: her little daughter. I have a daughter. I think I'd
0:47
Speaker 1: lose my mind if someone said that to me about
0:51
Speaker 1: my daughter or my son. And how did she live
0:55
Speaker 1: for twelve years with this threat hanging over her and
1:01
Speaker 1: get up and perform in front of the camera and
1:04
Speaker 1: raise her child the way that she did. This woman
1:08
Speaker 1: has got to have nerves of steel for Pete's sake.
1:12
Speaker 1: Imancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
1:16
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series XM one
1:19
Speaker 1: eleven twelve years. This woman, this star stalked by a
1:28
Speaker 1: maniac threatening unspeakable acts or not only her but her
1:34
Speaker 1: little girl. Take a listen to Eva on Access. The
1:39
Speaker 1: letters started coming just totally out of the blue and
1:44
Speaker 1: they would detail the most grotesque, deviant, nightmarish detail. He
1:50
Speaker 1: was going to disembowel and dismember us both slowly. He
1:55
Speaker 1: was going to kidnap my then five year old and myself.
1:59
Speaker 1: I was a single mom of time, and that he
2:00
Speaker 1: was gonna hold us hostage, keep us as sex slaves.
2:04
Speaker 1: He was obsessed with impregnating my baby. Okay whoa Okay,
2:10
Speaker 1: I obsessed with raping and impregnating her baby, girdle, holding
2:17
Speaker 1: her hostage, and keeping her and her daughter as sex slaves.
2:21
Speaker 1: That was Eva speaking to Access joining me right now
2:26
Speaker 1: and all star panel of a guest but special guest,
2:29
Speaker 1: Evil LaRue, Emmy Award winning actress. You can find her
2:34
Speaker 1: at evil LaRue dot com. She's also on Insta and Twitter. Eva.
2:40
Speaker 1: I just I don't know why if I should try
2:43
Speaker 1: to rush toward you to get your autograph or hug
2:45
Speaker 1: you and pat your back and tell you how sorry
2:47
Speaker 1: I am after everything you've been through. I mean, I've
2:50
Speaker 1: read your story, but what really got me is the
2:54
Speaker 1: threats on your daughter. I cannot even imagine that happening.
3:02
Speaker 1: When did this whole thing start? This this whole thing
3:06
Speaker 1: started in two thousand and seven, Um, when I got
3:09
Speaker 1: the very first letter. But you're absolutely right, Like the
3:13
Speaker 1: the only job that we have as parents is to
3:16
Speaker 1: keep our children safe, and when that is taken away
3:21
Speaker 1: from you by all counts um and every day you
3:25
Speaker 1: don't know if you can keep your only child, say
3:29
Speaker 1: you you you feel like you've completely you complete, completely failed.
3:34
Speaker 1: It's one it's one thing when it's talking threats are
3:36
Speaker 1: coming to you, that has its own, um terroristic fear
3:42
Speaker 1: that comes with it, you know, every every day. But
3:45
Speaker 1: when it's when it's aimed at your daughter, your baby girl,
3:49
Speaker 1: you know, because it's all started happening when she's five.
3:51
Speaker 1: Now she's twenty, but so her entire um, you know,
3:55
Speaker 1: for me to um you know, her her entire growing up,
4:00
Speaker 1: she's had this fear, of this anxiety. Although she didn't
4:02
Speaker 1: know what was in the letters when she was little,
4:05
Speaker 1: I still had to make her very aware of keeping
4:07
Speaker 1: her head on a swivel, of knowing as much as
4:11
Speaker 1: she could that there are people out there that might
4:13
Speaker 1: want to take her, that might want to take me,
4:16
Speaker 1: that you know, that they're threatening us. But I never
4:19
Speaker 1: let her know what was in the letters until much
4:21
Speaker 1: later when she was a team. And even so, she
4:23
Speaker 1: didn't find out about some of the most famous things
4:26
Speaker 1: he wanted to do to us until we were actually
4:28
Speaker 1: in the courtroom that day, because I didn't want those
4:32
Speaker 1: her perseperating on that her entire life, you know, and
4:35
Speaker 1: during her formulative bleak years, even LaRue Star c Sign
4:40
Speaker 1: Miami and so much more. I'm just trying to get
4:46
Speaker 1: my mind around what you must have thought when you
4:50
Speaker 1: got the first letter. Were they not signed by quote
4:54
Speaker 1: Freddie Krueger they were? I think I think he thought
4:58
Speaker 1: that was funny. I think he thought that was a joke.
5:02
Speaker 1: There were many of the letters that said, you know
5:04
Speaker 1: you're a CSI come find me taunting you. Take a
5:08
Speaker 1: listen to our friend Mario Lopez. We all know Mario
5:13
Speaker 1: at Access Listen. Most of the stalker's threats are far
5:16
Speaker 1: too vile to share on television, and they eventually began
5:18
Speaker 1: to mention Eva's young daughter, Kaya, who was only five
5:21
Speaker 1: years old at the time, stating, I would think you
5:23
Speaker 1: would want to stop me for your daughter, c You
5:26
Speaker 1: should be very scared of me, you know. Very often Eva,
5:31
Speaker 1: My children, my twins John Damn Lucy are old enough
5:34
Speaker 1: to go online now and they have gone on and
5:37
Speaker 1: they said, Mom, why did this person say this about you?
5:41
Speaker 1: It'll be like you're ugly, why are you on TV?
5:44
Speaker 1: Or I hate you should die? And I try to say, listen,
5:48
Speaker 1: you know what they're always people. They're gonna hate you
5:51
Speaker 1: and dislike you no matter what you know. And they say, Mom,
5:57
Speaker 1: you're trying to fight the bag, as I know. But
6:00
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. That's not Everybody doesn't see you the
6:03
Speaker 1: way you see yourself, ignored, they don't even know you.
6:06
Speaker 1: Just forget it, because in life you're going to have
6:09
Speaker 1: to deal with people that bully, try to bully you,
6:12
Speaker 1: or threaten you, or make you feel bad or But
6:16
Speaker 1: when you got that letter, that first letter, did you think, well,
6:22
Speaker 1: I'll never meet him, I'll never see him in person,
6:25
Speaker 1: or did you think, wow, this is a real threat.
6:27
Speaker 1: Oh my god, No, I thought immediately it was a
6:30
Speaker 1: real threat. I had no idea where he was, where
6:34
Speaker 1: the letter was coming from. I didn't know if he
6:36
Speaker 1: lived down the street. I didn't know if he was
6:39
Speaker 1: already following me. I didn't know if I didn't know
6:41
Speaker 1: what he knew about me, like where I worked, where
6:45
Speaker 1: she went to school. We didn't know anything, and that
6:48
Speaker 1: was where the greatest fear was, and we were constantly
6:51
Speaker 1: looking over our shoulder. We didn't know if he was
6:53
Speaker 1: going to show up on the doorstep at any at
6:54
Speaker 1: any moment. At the time, David Carusoe had to stalker
6:58
Speaker 1: and Emily Procter had a sto and their stalkers. They
7:03
Speaker 1: knew who their stalkers were, not that that was better.
7:06
Speaker 1: That's the problem with stalking. It's such an amorphous. There's
7:10
Speaker 1: so many gradations of it, right, and it's each person's
7:15
Speaker 1: story is so very different. David Carusoe stalker lived in Europe,
7:20
Speaker 1: was madly in love with him, and when he didn't,
7:22
Speaker 1: you know, respond to any of her letters, she started saying,
7:26
Speaker 1: I'm going to blow up your house. I'm going to
7:28
Speaker 1: kidnap your kid from college. I'm going to hold her
7:30
Speaker 1: hostage until you come and like, marry me and love me.
7:33
Speaker 1: And she ended up being put on the no fly zone.
7:36
Speaker 1: But this went on for months. A month, he was
7:37
Speaker 1: scared to death. He was scared to emil A. Proctor,
7:41
Speaker 1: her stalker showed up to her house, walked in her house,
7:45
Speaker 1: but was a nice, kindly stalker. So it was it
7:49
Speaker 1: didn't you know, nobody was too worried for her, which
7:51
Speaker 1: is shocking because people, I mean, as you know, for
7:55
Speaker 1: all the stories, people go from being a nice, kindly
7:59
Speaker 1: peeping tom to a murderer in not much time. I
8:03
Speaker 1: had one of my I guess health place talker was
8:07
Speaker 1: the stereotypical. He thought I was sending him messages over
8:10
Speaker 1: the airwaves, and I didn't think much of it until
8:13
Speaker 1: he showed up in the lobby of CNN in New
8:16
Speaker 1: York with his suitcase us to start our life together.
8:20
Speaker 1: This was after I was married and had the twins. Okay, guys,
8:24
Speaker 1: take a listen again to our friend, a Mario Lopez.
8:27
Speaker 1: She's beloved for her role as Maria Santos on All
8:30
Speaker 1: My Children and as Detective Natalia boa Vista on the
8:33
Speaker 1: hit show CSI Miami. Eva played a DNA analyst, which
8:37
Speaker 1: became a cruel irony when she started receiving letters from
8:39
Speaker 1: a stalker during her second full season in two thousand
8:42
Speaker 1: and seven, and the FBI was unable to determine who
8:45
Speaker 1: was sending them. Okay, that kind of stumps me right there.
8:49
Speaker 1: Let me go out to Stephen Kramer, a former FBI
8:52
Speaker 1: now lawyer president Indigo Solutions. Steven, when you get a
8:58
Speaker 1: written letter like Eva LaRue did well many of them.
9:03
Speaker 1: We can't find out where the postmarks from. Get DNA
9:07
Speaker 1: off the stamp, nothing, no fingerprints. Oh of course you could.
9:11
Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the things that was
9:13
Speaker 1: done early on in this particular case is getting the
9:16
Speaker 1: DNA off of the envelopes, off of the stamps, and
9:20
Speaker 1: the FBI was able to get DNA and they took
9:23
Speaker 1: that DNA, they put it into the National DNA Index System,
9:27
Speaker 1: which is called, as you probably know, the CODAS system,
9:30
Speaker 1: and there was no hit and it went on for
9:33
Speaker 1: ten years like that. Where do you think they got
9:35
Speaker 1: the DNA off the stamp, Steven I believe it was
9:38
Speaker 1: off the stamp on some of the letters, or off
9:40
Speaker 1: the envelope. Some of the envelopes didn't have DNA on it,
9:45
Speaker 1: and so they have to get it from a different envelope.
9:47
Speaker 1: But actually they got dozens of samples. There were thirty
9:52
Speaker 1: seven letters, right Evah, No, and there were more than that.
9:56
Speaker 1: Somebody said that there was really, yeah, there was. Somebody
9:59
Speaker 1: reported that there is thirty seven, but there's been some
10:01
Speaker 1: inaccuracies in some of the reports. But yeah, no, there
10:03
Speaker 1: were there were more than one hundred letters that came
10:05
Speaker 1: over twelve years. Oh my stars. Yeah, let's go out
10:08
Speaker 1: to Stephen Bush joining me. Former FBI Special Agent and
10:12
Speaker 1: CEO of Indago Solutions. Steven Thank you for being with us.
10:16
Speaker 1: I guess when these now over one hundred letters came
10:21
Speaker 1: at the beginning, we didn't have touched DNA. Yeah, Nancy,
10:24
Speaker 1: that's right. The DNA was taken off of these letters
10:27
Speaker 1: from the licked portion of the envelopes in most cases
10:31
Speaker 1: and in some cases from the stamps. And if Steve
10:34
Speaker 1: Kramer mentioned already, each time those profiles, they were str profiles,
10:39
Speaker 1: the ones that go into codas. The FBI put those
10:41
Speaker 1: profiles into codas, and that produced what we call a
10:45
Speaker 1: case to case match. So what it told us was
10:47
Speaker 1: it said, Hey, the same guy that sent the first
10:49
Speaker 1: letter sent the second, and the third and the fourth,
10:52
Speaker 1: but we don't know his identity. We don't know who
10:55
Speaker 1: that person is because his identity is not in coodus
10:58
Speaker 1: although his DnaA got it. You put his DNA in
11:01
Speaker 1: basically off the stamps on the sunderplus letters of threats
11:05
Speaker 1: to Eva. But he obviously either hadn't been arrested or
11:11
Speaker 1: had a government job where he had to give DNA,
11:14
Speaker 1: so you couldn't get a match. I get it, I
11:16
Speaker 1: get it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Eva LaRue joining
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Speaker 1: me as you heard earlier, star on all my children
11:41
Speaker 1: on CSI Miami. It goes on and on all of
11:47
Speaker 1: her hits, but yet she was stalked all these years
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Speaker 1: and her daughter. For all of you out there listening
11:58
Speaker 1: now that have been stalked, think about it. Here we
12:02
Speaker 1: have this glamorous Hollywood star and evil with FBI consultants.
12:08
Speaker 1: This guy is hard to stop evil. What were the
12:13
Speaker 1: original threats in the letters? I heard Mario Lopez say
12:17
Speaker 1: he couldn't even say them on TV. And how did
12:21
Speaker 1: they develop over the next hundred letters? You know, right
12:24
Speaker 1: out of the gate they were They were really horrifyingly
12:29
Speaker 1: deviant and evil, I mean, and they would even talk
12:33
Speaker 1: about um, Satanic rituals and you know, marrying us both
12:38
Speaker 1: in and holding us um the hostage of sex slaves
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Speaker 1: and impregnating my daughter and then um and then in
12:47
Speaker 1: in literally nightmarish detail, talk about how he was going
12:52
Speaker 1: to you know, continually rape and then disembowel and dismember
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Speaker 1: my daughter in front of me and then do the
13:00
Speaker 1: same to me. So it just it would it would
13:04
Speaker 1: seemed to always be some variation on the thing every
13:10
Speaker 1: single letter. Were they coming to your office or your home? Initially,
13:15
Speaker 1: the very first letter went to my manager's office. He
13:17
Speaker 1: didn't have my home address, thank god at the time,
13:22
Speaker 1: and they were going to my manager's office, and then
13:25
Speaker 1: eventually he found my home. When when it first happened,
13:29
Speaker 1: I was so scared. I was literally I was absolutely terrified.
13:34
Speaker 1: And I had a couple of weeks left at that
13:36
Speaker 1: point at the SI Miami before we went on hiatus
13:39
Speaker 1: that year, and the second we went on hiatus, a
13:42
Speaker 1: friend of mine said, you know what I've got. I
13:45
Speaker 1: have a house outside the country and we're going to
13:47
Speaker 1: be there this summer. Just come stay with us as
13:49
Speaker 1: long as you want. I took my daughter when we
13:51
Speaker 1: fled the country. That's how scared I was. I just
13:54
Speaker 1: I packed everything up and we fled the country and
13:56
Speaker 1: we were gone for a couple of months. I was
13:58
Speaker 1: just hoping it's something they like, he might show himself
14:02
Speaker 1: in some way that somebody, local law enforcement could catch him,
14:06
Speaker 1: anybody could catch him. But that was not the case.
14:09
Speaker 1: So when I came back to work, I hired me security.
14:13
Speaker 1: So in fear, she flees the country with her daughter,
14:17
Speaker 1: her only child, after threats that the two of them
14:20
Speaker 1: would be raped and disemboweled, threatening to disembowel a little
14:26
Speaker 1: girl in front of her mother, They dismember, they flee
14:32
Speaker 1: the country. Listen. At one point, Eva and Kaya even
14:36
Speaker 1: moved out of the country fearing for their lives, But
14:39
Speaker 1: soon after moving back, even with a hidden address, another
14:42
Speaker 1: letter arrived. I am going to take my revenge upon
14:45
Speaker 1: you and your daughter. There will be no place on
14:48
Speaker 1: this earth that I can't find you. The stalk or
14:50
Speaker 1: then located and started calling Kaya's school, leaving horrifying messages.
14:55
Speaker 1: Can you imagine not only are you being stalked, but
14:59
Speaker 1: you're little girl also being stalked. Listen to Kaya. It
15:04
Speaker 1: was intimidation and fear and psychological and emotional terrorism on
15:09
Speaker 1: a whole different level. What were your earliest memories. Something
15:14
Speaker 1: had happened where our address was leaked and we were
15:18
Speaker 1: actually in the middle of the night packing up all
15:20
Speaker 1: our things, And then I remember being so young, just
15:22
Speaker 1: being like really settling the effects of what it is
15:26
Speaker 1: to you know, not only have a mom in the spotlight,
15:28
Speaker 1: but also have someone emotionally terrorizing you. I'm just trying
15:33
Speaker 1: to understand how did your address get leaked? Eva? Well,
15:39
Speaker 1: at the time, I mean, that's kind of a whole
15:41
Speaker 1: other story. But because we had you know, we had
15:46
Speaker 1: a gate gate and hedge issue in and I had
15:50
Speaker 1: to I was at the city at getting a variant
15:53
Speaker 1: for these things, and the city leaked by address on
15:57
Speaker 1: the online camp you know, on their online court camera. Um,
16:02
Speaker 1: they said my address on the online court camera and
16:05
Speaker 1: immediately it was out and um. And then even the
16:09
Speaker 1: news cameras came like a couple of days later saying
16:12
Speaker 1: we see that you have. You know, you're trying to
16:14
Speaker 1: get a variance with I was like, how is that news?
16:17
Speaker 1: But you all just found my address and within about
16:20
Speaker 1: a week the letters started coming directly to my house.
16:23
Speaker 1: So he must have been watching every single thing about you. Yes,
16:27
Speaker 1: he was, well, we didn't know who he was, but
16:30
Speaker 1: he was on our social media. Um, Steve and Steve
16:34
Speaker 1: both found him, you know, following us, UM, following Kay
16:38
Speaker 1: and I both on Instagram, UM, and me on Twitter.
16:42
Speaker 1: And so he was he was following everybody. And then
16:45
Speaker 1: you know, now, um, both Steve and I were sitting
16:48
Speaker 1: at lunch the other day and you know, he just
16:51
Speaker 1: put in my name and add past addresses came up.
16:56
Speaker 1: Thank god, my current address didn't come up in there.
16:58
Speaker 1: But because I had to start, but I had to
17:01
Speaker 1: move obviously overnight, and I bought my next house in
17:05
Speaker 1: an LLFC. It's not registered to me. So and then
17:08
Speaker 1: even so seven years later he found that address and
17:12
Speaker 1: I had to buy my next house in Stephen Kramer,
17:15
Speaker 1: former FBI in Daga solicious. How did he keep finding her?
17:21
Speaker 1: That's a very good question. We don't know. I think
17:24
Speaker 1: he was just diligent on the internet, diligent following Eva,
17:29
Speaker 1: and eventually, you know, he would get lucky that he'd
17:32
Speaker 1: tracked down, for instance, Kaia's high school. She was at
17:35
Speaker 1: a private high school, and he somehow managed to find that,
17:37
Speaker 1: either to social media or other means. We aren't exactly
17:42
Speaker 1: sure how he did it, but that was also part of,
17:45
Speaker 1: you know, the concerns. Yeah, he's mailing these letters from
17:48
Speaker 1: we believe Ohio, that's where some of them were postmarked.
17:51
Speaker 1: But he could be in Los Angeles, he could be
17:53
Speaker 1: following her around and we did not know that. So
17:56
Speaker 1: those were some of the major concerns that we had
17:58
Speaker 1: about trying to identify this guy apprehended. Yeah, between that
18:02
Speaker 1: and the threat of disembowelment or rape and dismemberment, you
18:05
Speaker 1: the two Steves, I have your hands full I'm going
18:09
Speaker 1: to go to Scott Johnson forensic psychologists joining us. But Scott,
18:13
Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. You heard earlier where
18:16
Speaker 1: the stock would actually call this. He tracked down the
18:20
Speaker 1: school where he was daughter attended. Take a listen to
18:25
Speaker 1: my senior year when I was called into my front office.
18:29
Speaker 1: Your dad says he's going to pick you up. Yeah,
18:31
Speaker 1: stand out in front of the school. Yeah. So then
18:33
Speaker 1: I was like, I text my dad was like, yeah,
18:35
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? And he was like, no,
18:38
Speaker 1: I never called the school and I'm not here. And
18:40
Speaker 1: it just clicked and I went, oh my god, it's
18:43
Speaker 1: my stalker. You are hearing EMA's daughter talk about an
18:48
Speaker 1: attempt to kidnap her Farmers school posing as her dad.
18:54
Speaker 1: And we all know that if the kidnapped her game
18:57
Speaker 1: get close enough to the child to speak through the window.
19:01
Speaker 1: It's a hot skip at a jump to grab the
19:03
Speaker 1: child anyway. You can get them by the arm, the clothes,
19:07
Speaker 1: the neck, the collar, and yanked them into the car.
19:10
Speaker 1: It's all over in less than thirty seconds. Take a
19:15
Speaker 1: listen to more of what Eva's door KaiA says. That's
19:18
Speaker 1: worried me a little bit. It's it's twenty fifteen. Now
19:21
Speaker 1: you're you're You're thirteen, the letters started being in particular
19:24
Speaker 1: address to you. I have such severe anxiety even now
19:27
Speaker 1: to this day, because for me, it was just so
19:30
Speaker 1: paralyzing to go to school and to not know, you know,
19:34
Speaker 1: if I was going to get picked up, or if
19:36
Speaker 1: I was going to come home one day and my
19:38
Speaker 1: mom was just going to be found dead on the floor.
19:40
Speaker 1: You know. Um Eva LaRue Emmy Award winning actress speaking
19:45
Speaker 1: out to all stalking victims right now. The fact that
19:52
Speaker 1: my daughter says, Mom, Mom, I love you, You're You're
19:58
Speaker 1: my world. The fact that Kai had to worry about
20:02
Speaker 1: coming in and finding you dead. Can you imagine? No?
20:07
Speaker 1: I cannot. Yeah. And she said that she has started
20:10
Speaker 1: having those fears at about six years old. That she said,
20:13
Speaker 1: you know, she had the fear of her coming home
20:15
Speaker 1: her backpack and her holding her a little you know,
20:19
Speaker 1: lunch pale and coming in. She said she always was
20:22
Speaker 1: afraid opening the door, like was she going to come
20:24
Speaker 1: in and find her mother, you know, dead on the
20:27
Speaker 1: floor like that. That was a fear of hers for
20:31
Speaker 1: her whole life. She literally she deals with anxiety constantly,
20:35
Speaker 1: just trying to take that in I mean every once
20:37
Speaker 1: in a while. I mean, but that kind of trauma
20:40
Speaker 1: changes your brain chemistry. Yes, yes, you're right. My daughter
20:44
Speaker 1: will have dreams. Just go mom, Mama dreams. Something happened
20:48
Speaker 1: to you. And I think it's like that thing you
20:50
Speaker 1: love the most, your fear, that will be taken away.
20:53
Speaker 1: And now the letters start coming to your daughter. How
20:59
Speaker 1: did you yeah through that? Emotionally? It really is psychological
21:05
Speaker 1: emotional terrorism on a whole different level. It just it
21:10
Speaker 1: just is when you're constantly in fear, it really changes
21:14
Speaker 1: everything about who you are and how you operate. How
21:17
Speaker 1: did you hook up with the two Steve Stephen Bush
21:19
Speaker 1: and Stephen Kramer, both former FBI also president and CEO
21:25
Speaker 1: of Indago Solutions. How did you hook up with them? Ema? Well,
21:29
Speaker 1: Steve Kramer and Steve Bush are absolutely, just for the record,
21:34
Speaker 1: absolutely my heroes. They are angels walking on earth like
21:40
Speaker 1: they when it when the motto Protect and Serve is
21:44
Speaker 1: brought up. They are the paradigm of that. Because for
21:50
Speaker 1: twelve years I had I had one FBI contact agent
21:56
Speaker 1: who was in charge of my case, and he was
21:58
Speaker 1: lovely and he was Every years we would get together
22:01
Speaker 1: and he would tell me any upstates on the case.
22:04
Speaker 1: But up until then, if someone's not in Kodis, there's
22:08
Speaker 1: just nothing they could do. There's no way to identify
22:10
Speaker 1: this person. And with ironic is being on CSI Miami,
22:14
Speaker 1: everybody was in Kodis, right, we always got our guy.
22:17
Speaker 1: Every person, everybody who was a bad guy would Vodis.
22:21
Speaker 1: We've got a hit. In forty three minutes, the case
22:23
Speaker 1: is solved. Well, in reality, not everybody's in Kodis. Eighty
22:28
Speaker 1: plus percent of the people were in Kodis are already
22:30
Speaker 1: in jail, and the other percentage of them are people
22:34
Speaker 1: who are are John Doe's because they're in there from
22:38
Speaker 1: rape kit or murder, you know, or crime scenes, but
22:41
Speaker 1: they don't they don't have a name yet. Right, So
22:46
Speaker 1: cut to Kaya's senior year, and all of the confluence
22:52
Speaker 1: of all these things just happened at once where he
22:55
Speaker 1: found Kaya's school. I believe he found her via Instagram.
23:00
Speaker 1: She posted something or one of her friends posted a
23:03
Speaker 1: picture with her in it, and then you can see
23:04
Speaker 1: the school banner in the background. Oh exactly. All you
23:08
Speaker 1: have to do is go down a little wormhole on
23:10
Speaker 1: somebody's Instagram, And even if they don't have any information
23:14
Speaker 1: in their photos or on their photo page. You can
23:17
Speaker 1: just you can go down a wormhole seeing who tagged
23:20
Speaker 1: her in other pictures and go to a friend to
23:23
Speaker 1: their instagram, for instance, like if I don't put my location,
23:27
Speaker 1: and you see a picture of Jackie and myself and
23:33
Speaker 1: I don't reveal anything, but then you see Jackie's name,
23:36
Speaker 1: then you go to Jackie's Instagram and man, exactly there
23:39
Speaker 1: it is. You say, you know Westwood High School or
23:44
Speaker 1: whatever in the background, and it's all over. And that's
23:47
Speaker 1: exactly how he found her. And he called the school
23:49
Speaker 1: pretending to be her dad and told the administrator at
23:52
Speaker 1: the school to tell her in class, your dad's get
23:55
Speaker 1: stand outside in front of the school and to pick
23:58
Speaker 1: you up after school. And then she texted me right
24:02
Speaker 1: away and she said, mom, dad. You know her dad
24:05
Speaker 1: at the time. He since passed away, unfortunately, but her
24:08
Speaker 1: dad lived in Palm Desert two and a half hours away,
24:11
Speaker 1: and he and I were great friends. There's no way
24:13
Speaker 1: he was going to come to down and not tell
24:14
Speaker 1: me that he's going to come pick her up from school. No.
24:16
Speaker 1: In that she's a senior in high school. She drove
24:17
Speaker 1: herself to school. She doesn't need to be picked up
24:19
Speaker 1: from school. So she immediately says, Mom, Oh my god,
24:23
Speaker 1: is dad in town? That just sounds really fishy. And
24:26
Speaker 1: so I called her dad and her dad was like, no,
24:28
Speaker 1: I'm not in town. So I raced to the school
24:31
Speaker 1: and I said, I'm picking my kid up from school.
24:33
Speaker 1: You know, in all her whole life, I've had to
24:35
Speaker 1: tell every school she went to visit the issue, please
24:38
Speaker 1: be on the lookout she had a stalker. But we
24:42
Speaker 1: never had a reason to be, you know, worried until
24:44
Speaker 1: that point. And so the school was, you know, thought, oh, well,
24:48
Speaker 1: this is going to be a misunderstanding. I'm sure it's
24:50
Speaker 1: not a big deal. I bet they did, because they
24:53
Speaker 1: were about to send her outside to have her dad
24:55
Speaker 1: pick her up exactly. She could have been missing immediately, immediately, immediately.
25:01
Speaker 1: It's so fast, and you think, oh, I can't be
25:05
Speaker 1: dragged into a car. Yes you can. You can, even
25:08
Speaker 1: an adult, a female, especially one, grab if they're strong
25:13
Speaker 1: enough kid get you right in. They don't even have to.
25:16
Speaker 1: They don't even have to use physical forces. If he
25:17
Speaker 1: had a gun, had a knife, whatever he could, he
25:20
Speaker 1: could have, you know, just made her get in the
25:22
Speaker 1: car for fear of getting shot or step up. What
25:25
Speaker 1: was going through your mind, Eva, when you're racing to
25:29
Speaker 1: the school. Oh my god, I thought he's at the school.
25:33
Speaker 1: He's stock in the school, She's near this piece, he's
25:35
Speaker 1: got his eye, he's there, he's somewhere around the school.
25:38
Speaker 1: Because now he knows where she is. Now he knows
25:40
Speaker 1: where she is every day. So I raced to the school.
25:43
Speaker 1: I pick her up. I call the FBI and I
25:46
Speaker 1: find out that that my point person had been promoted
25:50
Speaker 1: to another another department, and they tell me your new
25:55
Speaker 1: agents that are in charge of your case, we'll call
25:58
Speaker 1: you in the morning. I'm like, I'm telling you one
26:00
Speaker 1: Heaven like, yeah, I need to talk to somebody right thee.
26:02
Speaker 1: Please don't make me trash the FEBEs because I'm getting
26:05
Speaker 1: really close to it. Scott Johnson joining me Forensic psychologists
26:09
Speaker 1: joining us out in Minnesota, thirty two years specializing in
26:14
Speaker 1: sex predators. Author of Physical Abusers and sex Offenders. You
26:18
Speaker 1: can find Scott Johnson at Forensic Consultation dot org. Scott Johnson,
26:23
Speaker 1: I mean what kind of I mean? I don't agree with,
26:27
Speaker 1: but I get I love you. I want to marry you.
26:31
Speaker 1: You've got to divorce your husband and marry me. He's
26:33
Speaker 1: all wrong for you, that kind of letter versus I'm
26:37
Speaker 1: going to disembowel your daughter after I raper in front
26:41
Speaker 1: of your eyes. That's a whole another thing, Scott Johnson. Right,
26:45
Speaker 1: So you're dealing with someone who's a psychlopath and obviously
26:49
Speaker 1: a sadistic cyclopath because he's getting off on the fear
26:52
Speaker 1: he's instilling. But the most dangerous part of this is
26:56
Speaker 1: these are iguas of sessions, and for twelve plus years
27:00
Speaker 1: he's been following and acting on his obsession and so
27:05
Speaker 1: to instill fear in paranoia is part of what he
27:10
Speaker 1: gets out of this as a thrill, and so that's
27:14
Speaker 1: the power play for him. He's a psychopath. Now, when
27:17
Speaker 1: you say psychopath, for those of us that are not
27:20
Speaker 1: educated psychologists like yourself, I'm just a JD. What do
27:24
Speaker 1: you mean by that? Well, he has an abnormal brain. Okay,
27:28
Speaker 1: limited fear, limited remorse, anxiety, things like that. But he
27:32
Speaker 1: has a need to hurt people, and he gets off
27:36
Speaker 1: on terrorizing people. When you say get off, do you
27:39
Speaker 1: meane he enjoys it, He laughs about it, he relives it,
27:43
Speaker 1: or he actually sexually masturbates to it. For this particular offender,
27:49
Speaker 1: probably all of the above, because he's tied so strongly
27:53
Speaker 1: specific sex acts that he wants to do in with
27:57
Speaker 1: the mutilation and everything else. So to him, it's just
28:00
Speaker 1: one big power play. And the sad part is and
28:05
Speaker 1: you know, not to try to make this sound you
28:07
Speaker 1: know who whoa it's it isn't who whoa issue because
28:10
Speaker 1: he probably won't stop until he is either a locked
28:14
Speaker 1: up permanently or be he successfully does what he wants
28:18
Speaker 1: to do. And so there is one person you left out.
28:21
Speaker 1: We kill him and that's what he wants to do,
28:25
Speaker 1: is to kidnap, rape, this, embowel and you know, kill
28:28
Speaker 1: and unfortunately someone like this, he's not going to stop
28:32
Speaker 1: until he can do that because that's what he lives for.
28:36
Speaker 1: And the proof of that is twelve years of specific
28:40
Speaker 1: obsessive behavior. Twelve years. Because I was trying to figure
28:45
Speaker 1: out Scott Johnson, and I learned this about five years
28:49
Speaker 1: into prosecuting violent felonies in inner city Atlanta. I would
28:53
Speaker 1: always wonder why why One day I was sitting in
28:57
Speaker 1: the courtroom looking over the defendant I was trying injury,
29:00
Speaker 1: wasn't there And I thought, why ask why why do
29:04
Speaker 1: I care? Why? I will never prove why. All I
29:07
Speaker 1: need to know is who did this thing? And how
29:09
Speaker 1: do I stop him? But I am wondering why right now?
29:13
Speaker 1: What gratification would he get out of just sending letters
29:17
Speaker 1: and threatening her and scaring her and her daughter. Well,
29:20
Speaker 1: and that's the interesting part because that's where many stalkers stops.
29:23
Speaker 1: They might send some letters, a couple of phone calls.
29:26
Speaker 1: But he's persistent with this, which means he's really invested.
29:30
Speaker 1: He's got his you know, his whole life right now
29:33
Speaker 1: of obsessions is around him. Unfortunately, these these two victims
29:39
Speaker 1: and alcohol him victims. Eva LaRue is with us. You're
29:41
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of Scott Johnson, forensic psychologists joining us
29:45
Speaker 1: out of Minnesota. You can find it at Forensic Consultation
29:48
Speaker 1: dot org. Oh Time Stories with Nancy Grace, Eva LaRue.
30:09
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to stain in your shoes for a moment.
30:12
Speaker 1: Every time I knew letter would come, how defeated, exhausted,
30:19
Speaker 1: afraid would you be? I mean, you could have a
30:22
Speaker 1: perfectly wonderful day and then you see the letter and
30:27
Speaker 1: you know immediately what it is. I knew the writing
30:33
Speaker 1: I would have been able to identify the writing from
30:35
Speaker 1: across the street. Like I remember the two times that
30:41
Speaker 1: I opened the mailbox and he had found my address,
30:45
Speaker 1: my actual home address, and pulled the mail out in
30:48
Speaker 1: the mailbox, and and literally it felt like I had
30:54
Speaker 1: somebody had teased me. That's that. It felt like it
30:57
Speaker 1: was like an electrical shock through your system. That's like,
30:59
Speaker 1: oh my god, he found the house. Oh my god,
31:02
Speaker 1: we're out, we have to move. Did you ever saying
31:05
Speaker 1: they would bay and end in SI after twelve? I
31:09
Speaker 1: really didn't. And then in that moment when they told
31:12
Speaker 1: me that my FBI agent, who had known everything about
31:15
Speaker 1: the case had left the case. Yeah, I got a
31:20
Speaker 1: phone call the next morning from my new FBI agents
31:25
Speaker 1: and charges the case. And that was that was Steve Bush.
31:30
Speaker 1: And overnight that night when he had been at the
31:34
Speaker 1: Stoker had been acting like he was her father, and
31:38
Speaker 1: the school was the school was not efficiently freaked out
31:41
Speaker 1: like I wanted them to be. And but overnight right
31:45
Speaker 1: he called the school and he left a message on
31:49
Speaker 1: the answering machine at the school detailing all the things
31:53
Speaker 1: he had detailed in the letters. So by the time
31:56
Speaker 1: they got to school, the administration got to school in
31:57
Speaker 1: the morning, they were appropriate league, completely free, and it
32:01
Speaker 1: took that to make them realize how much they screwed up.
32:05
Speaker 1: They were about to send your daughter out for a
32:07
Speaker 1: stalk or a grammar. Yeah, they were now that that
32:10
Speaker 1: actually wasn't their their fault because they when they first
32:13
Speaker 1: got the phone call, they had no idea that it
32:15
Speaker 1: was anybody other than death. But when we ran to
32:17
Speaker 1: the office and said, oh my god, this is the stalker,
32:19
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, shouldn't there be some kind of verification
32:22
Speaker 1: even because I mean, anybody can call go I'm your dad,
32:25
Speaker 1: ever her outside and grammer and be gone exactly. Oh okay, guys,
32:31
Speaker 1: you earlier heard Eva LaRue, Emmy Award winning actress. I
32:35
Speaker 1: just can't say it enough. She has been the start
32:38
Speaker 1: of so many hits. You would know her name or
32:42
Speaker 1: her face anywhere. But it's not just her. Her daughter's
32:45
Speaker 1: been dragged into this. You heard her mention her two heroes. Okay,
32:52
Speaker 1: so far we haven't been able to get a DNA match.
32:57
Speaker 1: We've got his DNA off the stamps, off the ladders,
33:02
Speaker 1: but there's nothing to match it too. Joining US forensic
33:07
Speaker 1: psychologist Scott Josh Stephen Kramer, Stephen Bush, when did you
33:12
Speaker 1: believe you had a break in the case. So it's
33:16
Speaker 1: important to understand a real brief timeline, Nancy of kind
33:19
Speaker 1: of how we got to that point. Steve Kramer and
33:21
Speaker 1: Paul Holes had already led the team in twenty eighteen.
33:25
Speaker 1: That's solved the Golden State killer case. I can imagine
33:28
Speaker 1: the phone start ringing off the hook at the FBI.
33:30
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to solve their case. If they have DNA
33:33
Speaker 1: of an unknown suspect, they want to solve the case.
33:36
Speaker 1: And so Steve and I form a program at the
33:38
Speaker 1: bureau to start doing this, and that leads us into
33:42
Speaker 1: early twenty nineteen, when a very astute supervisor at the
33:46
Speaker 1: FBI assigned me full time to do this. He transfers
33:49
Speaker 1: me up to the Los Angeles office. I arrive at
33:52
Speaker 1: my new desk and I find a binder, a three
33:57
Speaker 1: ring chief government binder that on the out side of
34:00
Speaker 1: it it says evil LaRue Threat letters and it has
34:03
Speaker 1: an FBI case number. And I'm a curious guy, I'm
34:06
Speaker 1: an investigator. I open up this binder and I start
34:08
Speaker 1: reading these letters. That's when I first learned about the case.
34:11
Speaker 1: That's when I first realized this is a horrible, horrible
34:14
Speaker 1: thing that has happened to this innocent woman and her daughter.
34:18
Speaker 1: The next question I have is do we have adequate DNA.
34:21
Speaker 1: We call the FBI laboratory. We figure out that there's
34:24
Speaker 1: DNA all up and down this case, and that's when
34:27
Speaker 1: we knew Nancy. Once we have suspect DNA, Steve and
34:30
Speaker 1: I are confident that we can solve these cases, and
34:34
Speaker 1: we have to. We had to take that DNA and
34:36
Speaker 1: send it to a private laboratory to get the profile.
34:39
Speaker 1: It's different than the codus profile, the profile that you
34:42
Speaker 1: need to do genealogy. And at that point we know
34:44
Speaker 1: we've got a lead to start working on to find
34:47
Speaker 1: a solution to this case. And what was the profile?
34:49
Speaker 1: So the profile is called a it's called a SNIP profile.
34:51
Speaker 1: It's an acronym that stands for single nucleotide polymorphism. It's
34:55
Speaker 1: the same as the profile you get if you send
34:57
Speaker 1: your saliva to ancestry dot com or twenty three and me.
35:01
Speaker 1: And what that profile does is when we take in
35:03
Speaker 1: and we upload it to public databases. It doesn't tell
35:07
Speaker 1: us who the bad guy is, but it tells us
35:10
Speaker 1: who his relatives are and by relatives, I mean people
35:13
Speaker 1: who share genetic code with when people who share DNA
35:17
Speaker 1: with him, and it could be very small amounts, a
35:19
Speaker 1: half a percent, a quarter of a percent, but from
35:22
Speaker 1: those folks we are able to reverse engineer and triangulate
35:27
Speaker 1: a family tree to determine the source of that DNA,
35:30
Speaker 1: which in this case was the suspect. And then you
35:32
Speaker 1: start looking to see who resembles that DNA that's in town. Guys,
35:38
Speaker 1: take a listen again to our friends at Access. What
35:42
Speaker 1: they didn't know is at the exact same time, two
35:44
Speaker 1: former FBI agents were using new DNA technology that led
35:48
Speaker 1: them straight to Eva and kayas stalker, and they were
35:51
Speaker 1: on their way to arrest him. They literally went out
35:54
Speaker 1: the next day. They've got to go and stake him out,
35:57
Speaker 1: wait for him to throw out something that has DNA
35:59
Speaker 1: on it, and it was an Arby's cup and they
36:01
Speaker 1: got the DNA off the arty straw. It's amazing. Okay,
36:05
Speaker 1: you were just hearing Stephen Bush talking from in Dago's Solutions.
36:08
Speaker 1: Former FBI special Agent Stephen Kramer, a former FBI attorney
36:13
Speaker 1: present in Dago Solutions, tell me about that moment. I
36:17
Speaker 1: remember it really well. Steve Bush and myself were actually
36:21
Speaker 1: doing a genealogy and that was sitting on our computers
36:25
Speaker 1: building these family trees, as Steve Bush mentioned, trying to
36:29
Speaker 1: figure out all the relatives who could be a person
36:33
Speaker 1: that was sending these letters. We were actually doing it
36:36
Speaker 1: on a Saturday afternoon at home, and as we came
36:41
Speaker 1: across the family and we narrowed it down, we found
36:44
Speaker 1: an individual who actually lived in Ohio. He looked good
36:49
Speaker 1: age wise, we obviously didn't know what do you look like.
36:52
Speaker 1: It's not a five year old boy or a ninety
36:54
Speaker 1: year old man, so he's in the pot of suspects.
36:56
Speaker 1: I got you exactly exactly. So we started looking at
37:01
Speaker 1: a little more carefully. We started scrubbing some of the
37:03
Speaker 1: social media, going to Eva's Instagram, Facebook accounts and seeing,
37:08
Speaker 1: you know, the people that followed her, and we were
37:10
Speaker 1: able to determine that this person that we were looking
37:14
Speaker 1: at was actually following her also of one of the
37:17
Speaker 1: many thousands of people on her social media. So that
37:20
Speaker 1: was like the big break. That's when Steve and I
37:22
Speaker 1: looked at each other kind of gave each other the
37:24
Speaker 1: high five that this is our guy, okay, who followed
37:27
Speaker 1: him into Arby's. That would have been part Steve. You
37:31
Speaker 1: want to take that? Yeah, so you're actually the way.
37:34
Speaker 1: This is one of the nice things about working at
37:35
Speaker 1: the FBI is when you have a suspect that lives
37:37
Speaker 1: out of state, you got a field officer. Yeah, you call,
37:39
Speaker 1: you call that field office and say, hey, Ohio, can
37:42
Speaker 1: you guys help us out. I will never be able
37:44
Speaker 1: to look at Arby's the same way again thinking about
37:48
Speaker 1: the case. Guys, It's been a horror story so far.
37:53
Speaker 1: But is there a happy ending it? Take a listen
37:58
Speaker 1: to our cut nine our friends out of NBC four
38:02
Speaker 1: in Ohio. Man He's been sentenced to prison in Los
38:05
Speaker 1: Angeles and for admitting that he harassed a TV actress
38:08
Speaker 1: and her daughter for more than a decade. Fifty eight
38:11
Speaker 1: year old James Rogers of Heath was sentenced to forty
38:13
Speaker 1: months in prison. Rogers admitted to stocking, threatening and harassing
38:17
Speaker 1: actress Eva LaRue for twelve years straight out to Eva LaRue.
38:22
Speaker 1: The guys in jail for forty months. I think we
38:24
Speaker 1: could have done a little bit better. But I praised God.
38:27
Speaker 1: He's in jail. We know where he is. Reaction, Yeah,
38:30
Speaker 1: I am disappointed. That he didn't get the minimum. The
38:34
Speaker 1: minimum on this case was forty six months and the
38:36
Speaker 1: maximum was fifty seven months for twelve years of being stoked.
38:42
Speaker 1: He only got three years. I don't know how somebody
38:45
Speaker 1: can take twelve years of your safety and mental health
38:53
Speaker 1: and only get three years. But but at least he
38:56
Speaker 1: got something. I mean, there's always I mean, you know, Nancy,
38:59
Speaker 1: there's always possibility that they get nothing. Yes, that they
39:02
Speaker 1: only get probation. You know, he's been identified, he's behind bars,
39:07
Speaker 1: and how are you going to prepare for when he
39:10
Speaker 1: gets out? Eva? Well, that's the thing too. And I
39:13
Speaker 1: have to say, I'm so grateful to the US Attorney's
39:15
Speaker 1: office for even taking the case, because you know, the
39:18
Speaker 1: US attorneys have piles and piles and piles of cases
39:20
Speaker 1: that are not going to get adjudicated. And I don't
39:23
Speaker 1: even know what would have happened had they not taken
39:25
Speaker 1: the case. You know what, Eva, you are so right,
39:28
Speaker 1: he would still be free in Stocking. Yeah, I just
39:30
Speaker 1: gotta ask Stephen Kramer or Stephen Bush, who is this guy,
39:35
Speaker 1: James David Rogers h fifty eight? What is his story?
39:39
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy, Nanthy, he was he was a
39:41
Speaker 1: certified nurses aid. He was a CNA that worked at
39:45
Speaker 1: an old folks home, a senior living facility in Ohio.
39:48
Speaker 1: He had no prior criminal history that we were aware of.
39:52
Speaker 1: He lived with his elderly mom in her small place
39:57
Speaker 1: in Ohio, and so he had no previous criminal history.
40:00
Speaker 1: He was not a guy that was on our radar screen.
40:02
Speaker 1: And he had my wife and children, a girlfriend, and
40:05
Speaker 1: nothing not that we were aware of knowing. So he
40:07
Speaker 1: literally is the lonely white guy living in his mom's basement.
40:10
Speaker 1: Profilers all over the country are skipping up and down
40:13
Speaker 1: the hall right now because they were right. You know
40:16
Speaker 1: the fact that he is a psychopath and he's been
40:19
Speaker 1: under the you know, he's managed to avoid being on
40:22
Speaker 1: the radar. And I want to interject this one piece
40:25
Speaker 1: that you know that may affect supervision and everything else,
40:28
Speaker 1: is he knows how to work the system. And you know,
40:31
Speaker 1: he's a victim. He's got this, this, or he's got
40:34
Speaker 1: nothing except psychopath for a problem. And so but he'll apologize,
40:39
Speaker 1: but they're empty apologies because he loves to do what
40:42
Speaker 1: he does and you know, liking the stamps and things,
40:45
Speaker 1: I would think actually probably wasn't a mistake. Many most
40:49
Speaker 1: psychopaths don't care forily evidence because they want to see
40:53
Speaker 1: if people are too DM dumb to pick up on it, which,
40:55
Speaker 1: of course Steven Steve picked up on that. And I mean,
40:59
Speaker 1: this guy just doesn't care until the job. This sent well,
41:02
Speaker 1: all I can say right now is for this moment,
41:07
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue and her daughter can breathe easy. But because
41:10
Speaker 1: of his light sentence, they got to gear up and
41:13
Speaker 1: pronto for when this guy, James David Rogers walks free.
41:19
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing up Goodbye friend,