Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Princes And Thieves From Investigative Reporter Matthew Cole The Truth Kills

Transcript

Princes And Thieves From Investigative Reporter Matthew Cole The Truth Kills · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

0:00
Speaker 2: Hey, do me a favor.
0:00
Speaker 1: Don't forget about arrow.net. A-R-R-O-E dot net. You can find
0:05
Speaker 1: an entire podcast network waiting for your exploration. One of
0:09
Speaker 1: the biggest shows is forest stories. We all have stories
0:13
Speaker 1: of walking into a park around a city block into
0:15
Speaker 1: a mall. Those little places where you can go to explore.
0:19
Speaker 1: And then do you write about it? What did you learn?
0:21
Speaker 1: How are you going to grow from it? Forest stories
0:24
Speaker 1: only on arrow.net. A-R-R-O-E dot net. Enjoy that exploration. Good morning, Matthew.
0:30
Speaker 1: How are you doing today? I'm great. Good morning, Arrow.
0:33
Speaker 2: How are you?
0:33
Speaker 1: Absolutely fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with
0:36
Speaker 1: you because what I love about what you're doing with
0:39
Speaker 1: Princes and Thieves is is that you're taking me beyond
0:41
Speaker 1: the headlines because I am that guy that goes to
0:44
Speaker 1: every freaking website to get the news, to get my
0:46
Speaker 1: own impersonation or interpretation. And I need a book like
0:50
Speaker 1: this to get me focused. And that's exactly what you do.
0:53
Speaker 1: You give me the maps. You give me everything that
0:56
Speaker 1: I need so I can understand what's really happening.
0:59
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I'm excited to be on and
1:01
Speaker 2: talk about the book. It's important stuff.
1:04
Speaker 1: Important. My God, you've got Stephen Miller on your case now, buddy.
1:07
Speaker 1: I mean, he's now in that. So I'm sure he's
1:09
Speaker 1: going to be looking at books like this going, OK,
1:11
Speaker 1: what are we doing now? How are you prepping for
1:13
Speaker 1: something like this?
1:15
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm we still live in a free society
1:18
Speaker 2: and I still have the First Amendment and I'm very
1:21
Speaker 2: excited about the First Amendment. I'm a zealot, if you will.
1:25
Speaker 1: I just love the idea that you're entering areas that
1:28
Speaker 1: we've all assumed it, but you're the one that's speaking
1:31
Speaker 1: about it. Where did you even gain this confidence?
1:35
Speaker 2: You know, it's not about confidence and it's not, you know,
1:37
Speaker 2: what I like to say, it's not about the worker,
1:39
Speaker 2: it's about the work. You know, I'm an investigative journalist.
1:42
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for 25 years. I've covered mostly
1:46
Speaker 2: government secrets and U.S. intelligence and special operations and I'm
1:52
Speaker 2: familiar with what secrets look like and how to pull
1:56
Speaker 2: them out. In that process, I was working on something
2:01
Speaker 2: that was related to all of this. You just follow
2:05
Speaker 2: and pull the threads as you find them. And, you know,
2:08
Speaker 2: and it's actually it's nonpartisan. I've done this under Democratic
2:11
Speaker 2: presidents and Republican presidents.
2:13
Speaker 1: It feels like a Clive Cussler book or something that
2:17
Speaker 1: is that's from Tom Clancy. I mean, were you inspired
2:21
Speaker 1: by this writing or are they inspired by you? Because
2:24
Speaker 1: this feels more like a drama than reality.
2:27
Speaker 2: Well, no, it's I think it's the line that, you know,
2:30
Speaker 2: sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. And I do believe
2:34
Speaker 2: and I've said that this is a real this is
2:36
Speaker 2: a real life Game of Thrones story in which Kushner
2:40
Speaker 2: found himself between three, you know, for the for just
2:46
Speaker 2: the sake of argument, three trillionaires who run their countries
2:49
Speaker 2: with oil wealth in the Middle East and bending U.S.
2:54
Speaker 2: foreign policy in the first term for his benefits. And
2:58
Speaker 2: the story has sexual blackmail. It has murder. It has
3:03
Speaker 2: mercenaries and it has assassins. And, you know, I do
3:06
Speaker 2: want to say, as I've been doing in all of
3:08
Speaker 2: these interviews about the book, that Jared Kushner and his
3:10
Speaker 2: lawyer deny every allegation in my book. They say it's
3:14
Speaker 2: completely made up. I think he's described my reporting as
3:19
Speaker 2: insane and that everything he did while he was in
3:22
Speaker 2: the White House was at the direction of the president
3:24
Speaker 2: of the United States. I stand by my reporting 100%.
3:27
Speaker 2: I'm quite confident that in time there will be others
3:31
Speaker 2: who confirm elements of it because what I know is
3:37
Speaker 2: that the book is probably just the tip of the
3:38
Speaker 2: iceberg in terms of what went on. And so, you know,
3:43
Speaker 2: I think it's important for your listeners to understand that–
3:48
Speaker 2: you know, there are sort of two unanswered questions from
3:51
Speaker 2: the book. The first is, what did Trump know? Did
3:53
Speaker 2: Trump know that Jared Kushner had negotiated access to two
3:58
Speaker 2: bank accounts funded by foreign governments? And the second is,
4:03
Speaker 2: did those secret financial arrangements have any part in the
4:07
Speaker 2: calculation by Trump to go to war with Iran? In
4:10
Speaker 2: other words, are we paying more for gas today because
4:14
Speaker 2: Jared Kushner, while he was in the White House, had
4:16
Speaker 2: a secret arrangement with the government of the UAE and
4:20
Speaker 2: the government of Saudi Arabia and the government of Israel.
4:23
Speaker 2: And we don't know the answer to those questions. And
4:25
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that people will read the book and demand
4:29
Speaker 2: that those questions be answered.
4:30
Speaker 1: All right, now, with you just saying that, I tell
4:32
Speaker 1: everybody now in North Carolina that has challenged me for
4:35
Speaker 1: over a year now on this very subject to read
4:39
Speaker 1: this frickin' book, that we have been talking about this, dude.
4:42
Speaker 1: You are so in touch with where the conversation is,
4:45
Speaker 1: but everybody will touch it a little bit, give me
4:47
Speaker 1: their opinion. It's like watching a CNN episode, and all
4:50
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like, okay, where are we going
4:52
Speaker 1: with this? I don't know. We all have an opinion.
4:54
Speaker 1: But at least, like I said in the very beginning,
4:55
Speaker 1: you're giving us focus and fact here.
4:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean... I mean, I mean this, I'm not partisan.
5:02
Speaker 2: I don't have a political affiliation. I don't really care
5:06
Speaker 2: where the facts lead. And it's not a, you know,
5:10
Speaker 2: also I'm not a prosecutor journalist. Their job is to
5:14
Speaker 2: ferret out, you know, the truth as best they can,
5:17
Speaker 2: they can verify it and find it. And unfortunately for
5:21
Speaker 2: our country, it's very clear that there was something very
5:25
Speaker 2: troubling that went on in the first term. And, and
5:28
Speaker 2: by the way, at the time, there were huge public
5:31
Speaker 2: questions about how it was that Jared Kushner, for instance,
5:34
Speaker 2: how his family's building, which had a $ 1. 2 billion debt due,
5:40
Speaker 2: how it was saved while there was this diplomatic crisis
5:44
Speaker 2: going on with these three countries. And so there were
5:47
Speaker 2: questions at the time. There were questions about his security
5:49
Speaker 2: clearance and about whether he was disqualified from having a
5:53
Speaker 2: top secret security clearance. And the book talks about this.
5:56
Speaker 2: And so what does that demonstrate? That the government at
5:59
Speaker 2: the time could see that there were problems, that there
6:02
Speaker 2: were red flags about Kushner's behavior and about his relationship
6:06
Speaker 2: with these government leaders. And yet Donald Trump, because he
6:10
Speaker 2: was the president, ordered his then chief of staff to
6:15
Speaker 2: give Jared Kushner a clearance, essentially wipe the slate clean
6:19
Speaker 2: for his son-in-law. And that is the recipe for problems.
6:22
Speaker 2: And so now, second term, And Jared Kushner doesn't work
6:27
Speaker 2: in the U.S. government or for the U.S. government. He
6:29
Speaker 2: works just for his father-in-law as a private citizen, as
6:33
Speaker 2: America's top diplomat, right? It's a real problem.
6:37
Speaker 1: I can't be the only one that just thought of
6:39
Speaker 1: Jared Kushner the first time around as just being just
6:42
Speaker 1: a trophy husband. I mean, we all knew that he
6:44
Speaker 1: was mixed into something, but he's playing a game here
6:47
Speaker 1: that's using his actions, his imagination, his decisions, and you're
6:51
Speaker 1: giving me a whole complete different view of who this
6:54
Speaker 1: man is.
6:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, one of the things that's hard sometimes
6:59
Speaker 2: to to sort of comprehend is that the truth is,
7:02
Speaker 2: is that a lot of what's in my book and
7:04
Speaker 2: what's in the reporting and princes and thieves are open
7:07
Speaker 2: secrets in the Middle East. I've spent a lot of
7:09
Speaker 2: time there. I took six years to report this. I
7:12
Speaker 2: had six years prior to that reporting on similar subject matter.
7:16
Speaker 2: And there it's it's an open secret here. It was
7:20
Speaker 2: well had well kept and and hidden. But the real
7:24
Speaker 2: issue is that we can see today in the second
7:27
Speaker 2: term sort of an understanding of how Trump decided to
7:34
Speaker 2: conduct himself and foreign policy in particular because in foreign policy,
7:37
Speaker 2: the president gets so much control and authority. And what
7:41
Speaker 2: he's done is he's essentially removed the government from doing this, right?
7:45
Speaker 2: The State Department doesn't do anything anymore. The CIA is
7:48
Speaker 2: not involved anymore. It's just the president, his son-in-law, his
7:51
Speaker 2: golfing buddies. and his friends from the real estate business.
7:55
Speaker 2: And they, you know, the only people, the only accountability
8:01
Speaker 2: is from the president himself. And so that's a recipe
8:04
Speaker 2: for problems.
8:06
Speaker 1: Can you imagine though, in all honesty, with all the
8:09
Speaker 1: information that you're sharing with readers now, relinquishing control to
8:12
Speaker 1: the readers of what's going on with the major changes
8:15
Speaker 1: that are happening? For instance, the midterms here and now Israel,
8:18
Speaker 1: you know, the big changes that are going on there.
8:21
Speaker 1: I bet you they're shifting gears right now in those
8:23
Speaker 1: hidden away offices.
8:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. My understanding is, and I have spoken to my
8:29
Speaker 2: sources in the Middle East since the book has been
8:30
Speaker 2: out and since the election is, is that there's a
8:32
Speaker 2: whole new calculation going on because the governments of the
8:36
Speaker 2: UAE and Saudi Arabia and Qatar are trying to decide
8:41
Speaker 2: and figure out what's going to happen. Is Netanyahu going
8:43
Speaker 2: to stay? If he leaves... There's going to be a
8:46
Speaker 2: new calculus. They're trying to figure out how to deal
8:48
Speaker 2: with the Democratic Congress and a Congress that that has
8:51
Speaker 2: made it very clear that it's going to assert its
8:53
Speaker 2: authority and its powers in our democracy. And so, you know,
8:57
Speaker 2: it's going to be very interesting to see how that
8:59
Speaker 2: plays out.
9:00
Speaker 1: Dude, I love the way that you start off the book,
9:02
Speaker 1: because you're giving us the opportunity to remember to put
9:06
Speaker 1: us in that position before you jump into the actual,
9:08
Speaker 1: you know, everything, how the meat and potatoes and my
9:11
Speaker 1: mom would always say it. But you're giving this that
9:13
Speaker 1: little bit of a, hey, by the way, went back
9:15
Speaker 1: when he was president the first time. And because there's
9:18
Speaker 1: many times that what we'll do is we'll drop the
9:19
Speaker 1: damn book and we'll pick up chat GPT. I don't
9:22
Speaker 1: want to do that. I want to have your words
9:24
Speaker 1: and you really do show up for the readers.
9:27
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I mean, I think that, you know,
9:30
Speaker 2: it's not easy to be an investigative journalist right now
9:34
Speaker 2: in this country. Right. But it is important. We all
9:39
Speaker 2: feed and drink from a firehose of information right now.
9:42
Speaker 2: Everyone's got social media. Everyone reads the headlines, as you described.
9:46
Speaker 2: I do it too. And we still need journalists out
9:50
Speaker 2: there who take two, three, four, five years to follow
9:53
Speaker 2: a story. And sometimes those stories require it because they're
9:57
Speaker 2: they're big and they're significant. And, you know, I'm very lucky. My, uh,
10:02
Speaker 2: my publisher, Simon and Schuster has been extremely supportive. They've
10:05
Speaker 2: given me, you know, we fact-checked the book. We had
10:08
Speaker 2: a great legal vetting, um, and they are standing behind
10:12
Speaker 2: me a hundred percent. Um, and we feel very confident
10:15
Speaker 2: that this book has, you know, is important, Please don't move.
10:21
Speaker 1: This is important stuff. We'll be right back with Matthew Cole.
10:26
Speaker 1: The name of the book, Princes and Thieves. We are
10:28
Speaker 1: back with investigative reporter Matthew Cole. I got to tell
10:31
Speaker 1: you how far ahead of the times that you really are,
10:34
Speaker 1: because I don't know why it is that we're just
10:36
Speaker 1: learning all of these things that happened behind the scenes
10:39
Speaker 1: in World War I and World War II. We're talking
10:41
Speaker 1: 80 years later, and here you are at the forefront
10:45
Speaker 1: of this taking place. It's like, I know this has
10:47
Speaker 1: had to have happened before. How is it that you
10:49
Speaker 1: have put yourself in this position of now where we're
10:52
Speaker 1: all going, I got to go to Matthew. Matthew knows
10:54
Speaker 1: what's happening.
10:56
Speaker 2: Well, there's not, I don't do anything special. I, to
10:58
Speaker 2: be honest with you, you know, no journalist is anything beyond,
11:02
Speaker 2: especially an investigative reporter is anything more than their sources.
11:06
Speaker 2: And I happen to have spent my career looking in
11:10
Speaker 2: some dark places. You know, my first book was about the, uh,
11:13
Speaker 2: SEAL team six and sort of the dark side of
11:15
Speaker 2: SEAL team six. And that was a result of having
11:18
Speaker 2: sources who were involved and who saw a problem and
11:21
Speaker 2: felt that, um, you know, a journalist and the public
11:24
Speaker 2: needed to know so that there could be some kind
11:26
Speaker 2: of chance for accountability. And likewise here, this story really
11:30
Speaker 2: is a result of people who, not all of them
11:33
Speaker 2: necessarily people you might want to have dinner with, but
11:36
Speaker 2: who believe that something very wrong happened while Kushner was
11:39
Speaker 2: conducting in U.S. foreign policy. They believed that there were
11:43
Speaker 2: laws that had been violated, but more importantly, that there
11:47
Speaker 2: were huge parts of what was going on between Donald
11:51
Speaker 2: Trump's administration and three to four foreign governments that needed
11:55
Speaker 2: to be known, that you couldn't just keep this history secret.
11:59
Speaker 2: And so, you know, it's their bravery and their courage
12:04
Speaker 2: to to disclose this stuff to a journalist. And really,
12:08
Speaker 2: in that sense, the reporter is just the vessel.
12:11
Speaker 1: Look, if all these leaders are going to fall like
12:12
Speaker 1: chess pieces, like you say, I got to be honest
12:15
Speaker 1: with you. I want to know if Kushner was a
12:17
Speaker 1: part of this thing that's happening with the AI technology
12:19
Speaker 1: and the Chinese spy. I mean, I no longer trust people.
12:22
Speaker 1: And your book has given me that opportunity to have
12:24
Speaker 1: a clearer vision of really how to look at the
12:27
Speaker 1: world and quit playing Disneyland here.
12:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think one of the important things
12:33
Speaker 2: I've learned in 25 years as a reporter is, is
12:35
Speaker 2: that there is a big difference between a conspiracy and
12:38
Speaker 2: a conspiracy theory. And professionally, I work on conspiracies. And
12:43
Speaker 2: those conspiracies, by the way, they're not clean. They're filled.
12:48
Speaker 2: You know, this book is the story of this book
12:50
Speaker 2: is really filled with a bunch of efforts to remake
12:54
Speaker 2: the map in the Middle East and almost all of
12:55
Speaker 2: it failed. And that's one of the ways, you know,
12:58
Speaker 2: it's true. is because in the real world, things do
13:01
Speaker 2: not work in a tidy fashion. And what it does
13:05
Speaker 2: is the book and the reporting lifts the veil on
13:07
Speaker 2: what power looks like, or at least how power did
13:11
Speaker 2: look in the first administration and what I think and
13:15
Speaker 2: I suspect it looks like in the second administration, which
13:18
Speaker 2: is that there are these deals that are going on,
13:21
Speaker 2: which include– benefit for the president and his family members.
13:26
Speaker 2: I mean, this is public in the second term, right?
13:28
Speaker 2: I mean, there are deals being put forth as part
13:31
Speaker 2: of the diplomatic negotiations. That's never happened in U.S. foreign
13:36
Speaker 2: policy ever, right? I mean, this is a five alarm fire.
13:40
Speaker 2: And I think actually, you know, Tuesday's election, that was
13:43
Speaker 2: one of the central issues that people voted on was
13:46
Speaker 2: the sense that the Trump administration this time around had
13:49
Speaker 2: reached a level of corruption that was beyond the pale. So, yeah.
13:54
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is, though, is that when
13:55
Speaker 1: you say that, it's I feel like that people are
13:57
Speaker 1: doing what my grandmother used to do when she would.
14:00
Speaker 1: And maybe it's because she came from the silent generation.
14:02
Speaker 1: Every time something bad happens in the news, she looks away.
14:06
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. I want to use
14:07
Speaker 1: your book as a tool to even find out more
14:09
Speaker 1: about this Mohammed Bean. I got to know who this
14:12
Speaker 1: guy is so that when I start seeing his name
14:14
Speaker 1: in the headlines or different stories, I can have a
14:16
Speaker 1: better understanding. And like I said, you've got the courage
14:18
Speaker 1: to talk about.
14:19
Speaker 2: These people, these people. Well, I'm glad you said that.
14:22
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that is I think some of
14:24
Speaker 2: the material in here is can be difficult to accept
14:28
Speaker 2: and understand. And and but it's necessary. I mean, you know,
14:32
Speaker 2: we our democracy is predicated on having a knowledgeable, you know, citizenry.
14:39
Speaker 2: We just have to know the facts. You don't have
14:41
Speaker 2: to agree with them. You don't have to necessarily even
14:44
Speaker 2: believe them. I don't mind if if there are people
14:47
Speaker 2: who are skeptical about the reporting because it comes from
14:50
Speaker 2: anonymous sources. But I think the truth has its own weight,
14:55
Speaker 2: and it has its own power. And what the best
14:58
Speaker 2: thing a journalist can do is make it public, right?
15:00
Speaker 2: I think this story is probably just the tip of
15:02
Speaker 2: the iceberg in terms of how bad it was during
15:04
Speaker 2: the first administration. But that's, you know, that's what journalism is.
15:09
Speaker 2: And that is one of the central components of our democracy. So,
15:12
Speaker 2: you know, I urge people to read the book and
15:16
Speaker 2: decide for themselves whether they think the reporting in it
15:19
Speaker 2: is more credible or if Mr. Kushner's denials are more credible.
15:23
Speaker 2: I'm pretty confident that the story is the credible version.
15:27
Speaker 1: I'm that financial guy. I'm the one that's always looking
15:30
Speaker 1: at the money, trying to figure out where the money
15:31
Speaker 1: is going and stuff. And we can blame that on
15:33
Speaker 1: the Iran-Contra affair. That's the generation that changed me. And
15:37
Speaker 1: I just got to know, how are they calling this U.S. money?
15:41
Speaker 1: If Kushner is getting all of this money, it's his money.
15:43
Speaker 1: It's somebody else's money. And it's like they're trying to
15:46
Speaker 1: get all this money to come back to the states. No,
15:48
Speaker 1: it's stopping somewhere. Doesn't this book identify that? Here's where
15:53
Speaker 1: it is. Here's where we got to go get it.
15:56
Speaker 2: It identifies a pattern that happened in the administration secretly
16:02
Speaker 2: and behind closed doors is sort of being done. openly now.
16:06
Speaker 2: And so as an example, and I say this in
16:08
Speaker 2: the book, after Kushner negotiated the ceasefire in Gaza between
16:13
Speaker 2: the war against Hamas, Donald Trump announced that he had
16:18
Speaker 2: this thing called the Board of Peace. And what is
16:20
Speaker 2: the Board of Peace? It's a sort of non-governmental structure
16:24
Speaker 2: in which if governments want to sit on the board,
16:26
Speaker 2: they have to pay a billion dollars into a fund.
16:28
Speaker 2: It's a slush fund. He's on one side. He will
16:31
Speaker 2: run it after he's president, even though he has no
16:35
Speaker 2: government authority or function. And in between that government slush,
16:39
Speaker 2: the foreign money slush fund and Trump is his son-in-law, Kushner.
16:44
Speaker 2: And so that's the same pattern that's in what, you know,
16:47
Speaker 2: in the reporting in Princes and Thieves. And I think that's,
16:51
Speaker 2: you know, that pattern is playing out over and over
16:53
Speaker 2: and over again in the second administration. Foreign government money
16:56
Speaker 2: going into funds where there is little to no accountability
17:01
Speaker 2: or visibility by the U.S. government. And so the question is,
17:04
Speaker 2: is what's going on with that money? And I don't
17:06
Speaker 2: have the answer, but I do think we as Americans
17:09
Speaker 2: need to ask what's going on with that money.
17:11
Speaker 1: Where is it? Who is it? There's so many people
17:13
Speaker 1: that are denying things, including the lawyers and things. I mean,
17:16
Speaker 1: that's the thing that inspires me most about you, Matthew,
17:18
Speaker 1: is the fact that you'll take that little no for
17:21
Speaker 1: an answer or I'm not going to answer this and
17:23
Speaker 1: you continue to dig. And that's what I love about
17:25
Speaker 1: how you keep taking these steps. And it's like, how
17:29
Speaker 1: is this man getting down this mountain? And I have
17:31
Speaker 1: to ask you a martial arts question. Are you taking
17:33
Speaker 1: the mountain down one rock at a time? And is
17:36
Speaker 1: that your access to how you're getting this information?
17:40
Speaker 2: Well, I think– first of all, thank you for saying that.
17:42
Speaker 2: That's very kind of you. No, I mean, again, I
17:48
Speaker 2: sat in the world reporting-wise about sort of looking into
17:51
Speaker 2: mercenaries and foreign wars and government support of foreign wars.
17:56
Speaker 2: And in that process, believe it or not, you find
17:58
Speaker 2: people who are decent. Sources who believe that there is
18:02
Speaker 2: right and wrong, you know, people who are, whether they're Jewish,
18:06
Speaker 2: Christian or Muslim, believe in sort of heaven and hell and,
18:10
Speaker 2: you know, decency. And in that process, they will say
18:14
Speaker 2: to a reporter, hey, you really need to look at
18:16
Speaker 2: X because it's messed up and your government is involved
18:21
Speaker 2: or our government is involved. And you start to pull
18:24
Speaker 2: the threads that way. And what you find, you find
18:28
Speaker 2: other people over time who are troubled by what they're
18:32
Speaker 2: involved in or what they've seen. And you just take
18:35
Speaker 2: it that way. And you don't think about a bigger picture.
18:37
Speaker 2: You just sort of pull the thread. you know, as it,
18:41
Speaker 2: as it comes to you.
18:43
Speaker 1: You remind me so much of a commercial that used
18:44
Speaker 1: to run here in Charlotte. It was Kyle Cardews who
18:47
Speaker 1: used to say his best customer was an educated customer.
18:49
Speaker 1: And this book right here, princes and thieves, it makes
18:53
Speaker 1: us a better person because you're giving us the information.
18:56
Speaker 1: You're educating us as to what we should be watching.
18:59
Speaker 1: And we're not just reading the first paragraph of something
19:01
Speaker 1: we caught on Fox news. What we're doing is you're getting,
19:04
Speaker 1: giving us the inspiration and influence to, to look beyond
19:07
Speaker 1: that first paragraph. And you being a journalist, you know
19:10
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about.
19:12
Speaker 2: You know, you just made my mom blush. So thank
19:14
Speaker 2: you very much for that. Look, I'm a, I'm a,
19:17
Speaker 2: I'm a fervent believer in the first amendment and in journalism.
19:20
Speaker 2: I think that, that are, is that I say, can't
19:23
Speaker 2: say this enough. Journalism is a central component of our democracy.
19:28
Speaker 2: And if we've experienced nothing else over the last eight
19:31
Speaker 2: to 12 years, it's that, you know, Our institutions are
19:35
Speaker 2: vulnerable and it doesn't have to be because it's Trump.
19:39
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a Republican president. It's that,
19:43
Speaker 2: you know, the executive presidents like power. And I've reported
19:47
Speaker 2: on Republican controversies and scandals. and I've reported on Democratic
19:51
Speaker 2: controversies and scandals. And they have something in common, which
19:54
Speaker 2: is the presidents like to feel that they are beholden
19:57
Speaker 2: to no one. And our institutions are what are supposed
20:00
Speaker 2: to keep them in check. And journalism is one of
20:03
Speaker 2: those central ones. And so, you know, we just, I
20:06
Speaker 2: try to be a journalist every day, And and I
20:09
Speaker 2: hope I do a good job. Wow.
20:11
Speaker 1: You got to come back to this show anytime in
20:12
Speaker 1: the future. 20 minutes with you is never going to
20:14
Speaker 1: be enough, dude. But at least I have the book now.
20:16
Speaker 1: This book is just it's it's amazing. I want readers
20:19
Speaker 1: to tap into it.
20:21
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I just that's that's what I
20:23
Speaker 2: hope for, too. I just want people to read it.
20:25
Speaker 2: They can decide for themselves whether they find it credible.
20:28
Speaker 2: And if they do, I think, you know, they should
20:29
Speaker 2: be demanding answers to some of these really important questions
20:32
Speaker 2: that are left unanswered by the book.
20:35
Speaker 1: Be brilliant today.
20:36
Speaker 2: OK, sir. Thank you so much, Eric.