Latest / My Brother's Journey / Spiritual Warfare, the Latin Mass, and the Road Back to the Church

Transcript

Spiritual Warfare, the Latin Mass, and the Road Back to the Church · My Brother's Journey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, good morning and uh welcome to my brother's journey.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I am part of the tag team here.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Greg Joseph Chuck, and with me is Baron.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Baron, great to see you this morning.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Great to see you as well.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Another beautiful beautiful fall day here in uh Statesville, North Carolina.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh again, today we we uh arm twisted and and lassoed uh another brother from our Bible study.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so and I'm delighted to have him here.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, Mystery Guest, we'll uh would you be so kind as to open with a prayer?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh every day I pray to my patron Saint St.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Michael.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we just did so after the end of Mass, uh, so I'd like to open with uh St.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Michael's prayer.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Archangel, finish in battle, be our protection against wickedness and snare of the devil.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: May God rebuke and we humbly pray.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And do thou, Prince of the Holy Ghost, by the power of God, catch and out of Satan and all the evil spirits who prow throughout the world, seeking and removed souls.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Great prayer.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for that.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Mr.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Eguest, who are you?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Mike Jones.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Mike, glad to have you here.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for coming in.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Really appreciate it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: My pleasure.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, uh, as you probably know, the way we do this is we talk about men's spiritual journey.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we get to know the different brothers uh that uh uh are in our Bible study or that we come in contact with in our parishes or whatever.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're delighted to have you here.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so we'll be asking you about your spiritual journey.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and actually, I know almost nothing about you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you're a very fascinating person to me, um, and you've you've contributed greatly uh during our Bible study.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: So appreciate your comments and some of your questions and thoughts.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but tell us a little bit about you.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us uh, first of all, I guess I'll start with uh are you a cradle Catholic or are you a convert?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or tell us a little bit about that.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Born and raised in the city of Chicago, I grew up across the street from St.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas More uh Catholic Church in uh Chicago, Illinois, 81st in California.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um here's a little bit of my playground.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there was, I forget what they call it, um, where nuns live on campus, and we had a school as well as a church.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a a big campus.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um got to spend my summers with the priests and the uh um what is it called when they're becoming a priest when they're studying seminarians uh in the summertime would come and visit from Italy and Europe and overseas.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a really great opportunity to kind of grow up in that community, really close-knit.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then I went to Catholic high school around 16 or so.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I started getting to dating, uh, started getting away from the church, uh, married outside of the church, spent about 20 years.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: We would go to Catholic Mass, but we would also explore some other faiths, Christian faiths.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all my kids are raised Catholic, uh, they've they've all been confirmed.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in the last few years I've come back to the church pretty pretty hardcore.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, wow, so there's let's, if you don't mind, sure.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Was there anything in particular that kind of drove you away from the church, or did it just did your faith just fall off?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh well, being a young, dumb, and full of something inappropriate.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: In our family we call it piss and vinegar, but you know, I wasn't um, let's just say the intellectual side of me wasn't fully developed.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: The the intellectual intellectual side of my faith wasn't fully developed.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was not very well catechized.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's very common for my generation.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I got fed a you know, hey buddy Jesus, lovey dovey, just this very um watered down version of the faith, I think.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I never heard about spiritual warfare until I was in my 30s.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess just the just the kind of watered-down faith combined with the worldly desire to live separate from Christ, and then I started hanging out with some Protestants in high school.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: They started asking all kinds of questions in my head, and I started questioning some of the stuff I was taught.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for me, I think really what drove it more than anything was the money.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I really struggled with the the financial side of tithing and the church, and um my my father's relationship with the church, my grandfather's relationship with the church.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: My grandfather was very much pre-Vatican II, he was not a big Vatican II guy.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of grew up in a family that was a little bit divided in some of the church rules, and then um what I saw as excesses in the church financially um kind of pushed me away a little bit.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, and so at some point uh that all changed for you, though, in your journey.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um I think the watching my kids be catechized, um, going through that journey with them, um, it really gave me uh it gave me a different appreciation of the sacraments.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I think really after my separation, uh my therapists call it an identity crisis.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I had a little bit of identity crisis when I was about 42.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I really had to dig deep and I had to decide who I am and what I'm gonna be moving forward.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it was a classic saying, you are not what they say you you are.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's kind of these last several years, it's it's walking the faith.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who am I and and what is my character and just living by it.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So um so it was your your your children um going through their sacraments that kind of brought you back into the church, into the relationship, and it sounds like you uh started really looking deeper into the faith and understanding the richness of the faith.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh when I first came back to the faith, you know, it was kind of just checking boxes and I was going through the motions.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I started studying scripture independently, um, and then joining some Bible studies, and uh actually it was Revelation.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was participating at a uh Bible study at St.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Therese and we were studying Revelation, and I don't remember this the scripture specifically, um, but there's something in there about the Eucharist and the Bible study leader um actually was after a daily mass one day, pointed me to John 53, and that to me was just a light bulb moment of if without my body and my blood, you have no life.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that literal interpretation of it and the context in John where he lost disciples because of it, you know, that was a really hard lesson for disciples to hear.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, that's kind of one of the big things that Protestants always complain about, protest is why do you have to sacrifice Jesus every week?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: One was good enough.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so digging into that theology and just appreciating the liturgy more, understanding the liturgy more.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've started going to Latin mass, uh, which is just a wonderful experience.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, uh, but watching my kids, uh I didn't baptize my kids as children or as babies.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, that was one of the kind of the Protestant influences right during that time of my life.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um but we we did go to Mass.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: We we we had dabbled before kids, we went to some Pentecostal services and some Baptist services and non-dom services.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they just weren't spiritually fulfilling to me personally.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my ex-wife, she also really enjoyed the mass as well.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we started taking the kids to mass.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time my son was, I he's my oldest, I have four.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um by the time my son was about 10 or 12, my oldest daughter was nine-ish.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they started asking about becoming Catholic um and kind of walking with them through their questions and then having to do more research myself to be able to provide intelligent answers.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that really helped build my faith as well.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it was after this the separation where I really went back to it because we weren't married in the church, you know, that was a really it really it was spiritually damaging because I was living in mortal sin and and there was a lot with um trying to get it um blessed by the church.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so afterwards, you know, what does it mean to be a Catholic man?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: How do I live that life?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Studying the catechism.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a it's been a process.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: You um you you you mentioned um the Latin Mass.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm interested, um what what draw you to the Latin Mass?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was actually St.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Michael's Prayer.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: When I first heard that uh they I think it was Pius X uh had created um the St.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Michael's Prayer and asked for it to be said after the low masses.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: When I found out that it's still said at the Novus Ordo on the Daily Mass, I started going to Daily.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then going to the Daily Mass.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't really know.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was I had heard something about it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was in social media.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I follow a ton of Catholic groups on on social media.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I had heard about it at St.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Mark's, and then Bishop Michael had issued that letter last fall, which was shocking to me.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think right around the time that I started getting interested in it, Bishop Michael had issued that letter, so now it was kind of like this um I don't know how you say it, radical thing.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some people call me rad trad as an insult.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I guess it, I guess it just you know, I've always been a little bit disobedient by nature, you know, just a little, just a little on the edge.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for me, like to hear this thing is is being poo-pooed on by everybody else, I was like, well, I want to learn about it.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then fortunately, they opened up the chapel of the little flower in Mooresville.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I went there one Sunday by myself in the high new mass, it was just beautiful.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just I I mean, it's the closest to heaven that I can imagine on earth.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, listening to I love Gregorian Chants.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've been listening to Gregorian Chance for years.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um to listen to the Latin music coming from behind you in the chapel, those beautiful voices, seeing all the young boys in their suits and the young girls with their mantillas on, young families with five, six kids.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had a big family and I always loved kids.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just a really a really beauty, beautiful atmosphere.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love incense.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the prayers of Aladdin Mass are absolutely beautiful.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And as a wicked sinner, I could use all the help I can get.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so reading along as the priest is praying for us was really was really great.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't have any problem with the Norvisor Novisordo.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just like the the reverence and and the um solemnity of the the Latin Mass.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: It so are is that a daily mass for you or is it no uh here in Mooresville they only offer it on Sundays, um and I think special feast days.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do try to get to the daily mass when I can.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, wow, what a what a spiritual journey so far.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you so you mentioned a couple things, and you know, one of the things we've talked about, of course, this is a journey and we're all on this, but you were talking about you know raising our kids and and talking about you being raised as a child and and how you you said you know you weren't maybe necessarily catechized properly and everything else, and yet you learned a lot from uh having your children go through that process.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh Mike, what would you say is the the real secret of that?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know I used to teach uh CCD at St.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Therese and and you know we would my wife and I did it, and we would get frustrated by the fact that you know kids were dropped off to you know, a lot of times here go learn this, but they're not in mass on Sundays, and and they're kind of like check the box.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we've talked about check the box a lot throughout our journeys.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do we stop that?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I also did uh Kathy and I, my my wife uh recently married.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: We met at Catechism, teaching Catechism at St.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Terez, seventh grade.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I understand I empathize with the frustration, I do.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but I I am I sympathize with the parents because I was guilty of it as a parent.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because what do you do?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how do you get involved?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I've always volunteered, I coached all sports are pretty easy, you know.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like they're always looking for coaches at the beginning of the year.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't have coaches, you don't have a team, so it's very easy to get involved, it's very natural for me.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I played sports.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was an alter server, but I just didn't know how to get involved as a parent in the church.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things that when I was uh I was actually considering a vocation at St.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Therese, and when I was interviewing there, one of the things I recommended to their faith formation director.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for me as a parent, teach spiritual warfare.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think adults I just think our faith has been so watered down for the last since Vatican II, to be honest with you.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not blaming Vatican II, I don't hate Vatican II.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have questions and I and I'm still a little bit confused about how it changes the theology and the practice of our faith.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think people really need to understand the consequences of their actions.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think they really need to understand that there is warfare going on around us every day, all whether you believe it or not, you believe the earth is flat, don't change the earth.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you you don't have to believe in Satan, you don't have to believe in angels, but they're there and it is going on.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I think that's kind of teach parents, help parents understand um the gravity of sin, the gravity you know, Luke.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: He who teaches the child to sin, the family shall be cursed for three generations with a millstone.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I am not the I'm not a scriptural scholar by any means.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, I I for me, spiritual warfare it ties um you know, we live in a culture where mental illness is a real challenge.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it really is.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and spiritual warfare for me ties psychology and faith and um theology.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it explains a lot when you when you get into it.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what what would you recommend?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at what age would you start recommending to start teaching spiritual because that yeah spiritual warfare, first of all, is a pretty heavy topic in and of itself.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then you don't want to frighten the child, but you do want to talk about reality, right?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that that's kind of where I think that's that's where it's hard, right?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, I think as as as Christians, we want to protect our kids.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, but they're watching Freddie Krueger, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: They got porn on their phone at eight years old.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the reality of the world today, and putting our heads in the sand and ignoring it isn't changing it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, so totally agree with that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when is appropriate?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: When do they turn on the TV?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's when they'd expose this crap.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, beer commercials, you know, prescription.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, half the T half the ads on TV are prescription drugs, you know.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to sell you a pill for every problem.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how you solve your life, you know.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, look at the saints, exercise, diet, uh, going to church, prayer.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a reason we do those things, you know.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not we don't play sport just for fun, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: We play sport because it's good for our spirit as well as our body, our temple.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it can be woven in at a very young age.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is a lot of, especially today, I think there's a lot of um age-appropriate books that address virtues and sin.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think it's really ever too young.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't have to get into the the nitty-gritty details of of the warfare side of it, but to talk about it, especially the angels, guardian angels.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um people don't talk about guardian angels as much as I would like.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they're very, very important to all of us for sure.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um let me ask you this.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the Bible study, as you know, it's mostly made up of uh older guys, yeah, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I'm wondering why we aren't bringing maybe much younger guys into this thing, you know, teenagers, you know, 17, 18, 19.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um because as we as we hear over and over again in our Bible study, um a lot of us at that age, just as we're kind of getting out of high school, going into college, seems to be one just based on you know our podcast here, Baron, and how many guys we've talked to already, seems like quite a few, and I put myself in that category, kind of fell off the tracks, off the rails.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we kind of pursued more earthly pleasures, especially I would say in that college age period.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I'm thinking to myself, if there's ever a time that maybe a Bible study or getting into the practice of a Bible study would be good is if we could somehow help the youth to maybe and maybe they do it, maybe maybe there's a ministry here I'm unaware of.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: If there is, that's great.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I think a youth Bible study for for guys and girls, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Before maybe before they head off into college so that they've got a little bit of a under better understanding of scripture.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of the things I would say is if our children are not into the faith, and if they are just like we most of us did, just checking boxes, well, Catholics are notoriously uh known for, and I think it's it's pretty much true, of not really reading their Bible and understanding their Bible, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they get that little snippet, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: They get a couple readings in the gospel, and for most of them, that's it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they they they probably don't own a Bible uh as a teenager.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I may have, but I'm sure I never picked it up, or maybe I picked it up for C C D class or whatever, right?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um but um and I and I'm just wondering kind of your guys' thoughts, because both of you have taught C C D.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I have a catechism.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know if they still call it C C D back in the old day, that's what we used to call it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um but um you know, uh I'm sure you see it even with the classes you've taught, that they really don't know what's in the Bible, they don't understand it that well.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just wondering how do we get that planted earlier, the love of God's Word, which is so important to all of us.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's why we study it, right?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: It it has implications for our life every minute of the day.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just wondering if you guys, both of you guys, because you've taught catechism, if you have some thoughts on that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think for for me, uh when we taught it, we we actually taught it because our kids were going through it at the same time.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't necessarily want to be the instructor in their class, but we wanted to we wanted to be active in that so that we would uh you know understand what it is that we're teaching, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it they're learning.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh, you know, I think to your point, you know, about bringing younger people into our decidedly you know older uh Bible study, I think that the problem is, Greg, is no matter how likable you are, and you're very likely, uh, is that uh to uh 18-year-old or 24-year-old, they're gonna see their father or their grandfather.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and they and they just just because of generational differences and stuff like that, they will see you, you're not quite understanding where they are and what the the things are that's about their lives.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like just like when I was there, you know, when I was in my 20s, it was pretty much self-directed.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it came back around to when I started to to teach my, you know, trying to teach my kids what the sacrifice meant, stuff like that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I found that there was a you know, this is a blend of both instruction and example.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had to be the example as much as I also have to instruct.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think that that's a that's a that's a challenge that's been around forever.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how do you how do you make that jump?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's it's so important to uh help our kids when we can, but recognize there's gonna be that no man's land period where we have to be willing to let go, continue to be the example, and and hopefully they will make that leap themselves because of the foundation in their faith.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I think that's maybe the best we can do.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I uh Kathy and I talk about it a lot.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I there is a generational gap in the church right now, and uh I I'm no spring chicken, I'm 46.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um well you're you're a spring chicken.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have I I could be a grandfather, of course.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: My son is older than I had two kids by the time uh I was my son's age.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm no spring chicken, but uh there is an age gap.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I'm it's probably 10-15 years on average of minimum, uh maybe 20, even in just in the Bible study.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember Crusillo, same thing.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: There it's a two two decade gap.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I was 42.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've I was married for 20 years, 42, all of a sudden I'm single.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a single ministry for anyone over 30 who's like the diocese stops at 30.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's nothing after 30.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Kathy was a young adult still, and and she was even having trouble connecting, and she's a very devout Catholic, wonderful prayer uh warrior.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: She's call her my zina.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, there is a challenge.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of where I go back to that passage in Luke where.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like Barron said, it is by example.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: How do we lead as Christian men?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: By example.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: By doing it, by walking it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when there's a generational gap, it takes time.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Three generations.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it takes time to like you gotta be the black sheep that breaks the chain.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you it's it's hard because we're taught, you know.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I grew up baseball, football, professional sports.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: My dad watched so we talked about professional sports a hundred times more than anything spiritual, you know.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like we talked about money, we talked about politics, we talked about anything but God, you know.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So now I don't watch any TV at all.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't watch any Hollywood movies.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am in scripture.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and people look at me like I'm a freak.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really, it's it's hard to a lot of times to make friends with your average Joel on the on the or professionally um to find common ground, especially down here in the south.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the Lord told us it was gonna be that way, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he's yeah, yeah, right.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't say that the door to the kingdom is you know wide open, you said it's narrow and few get through it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh John Maloney, one of the things he said to me that was uh validating was you know clean the dust off your heels and move to another town.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um the only validation I personally need is that the words of my savior, you will be hated.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: When you're speaking the good news, when you're when you're really living it, yeah, people don't like that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you are different.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're and that's a good thing, yeah, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a blessing to be different.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's just something as simple as you know, stopping, having a couple of drinks and stopping.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you when you when you're around so many people who drink to excess all the time, and that's the standard, now all of a sudden you're saying, Hey guys, that was fun.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm out after an hour.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're like, What's wrong with Mike?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, and people start gossiping, and it's just it's yeah, it's it's really strange.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, how to do it, I don't know.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think I think there is, especially going to Latin Mass, I see it there all the time.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is a desire, and I think it's one of the great things Father Bernard's bringing in, the solemn mass at 8 a.m.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: on Sundays.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a desire for tradition.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I think in youth, um, I think that's one of the attractive things about the Latin Mass is that it is so sacred.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: It it it ties back for thousands of years.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um you f it's it's like you you feel like you're in a time portal when you're there.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um whether it's the dress of the the congregants, the the incense, the solemnity.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's a beautiful experience, it really is.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't fr from this from the perspective of the church how to do it, I I don't know.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it is happening organically.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think more men in particular uh walking in the faith, setting that example, um, young people seeing it.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the good things I I joined Curcio kind of hoping that Kathy would join.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I've heard that back in the day Curcio was a very strong family program.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think family programs are kind of how we do it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think St.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mark seems to have some really great programs on that end where they where they have events where the entire family can go together at the same time, the kids can get a program, the adults can get a program, mom and dad get a cup of coffee, a little time away from the kids in a safe space, not the Protestant service where you go and you get coffee and the kids are isolated and mom and dad going kind of like that, but separate from mass.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so maybe family Bible studies or family catechesis.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's gonna take time.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's there's no pill for it.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we have covered a lot of subjects today, and I have, and I appreciate it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mike, thank you so much for sharing your your journey with us, your your thoughts on uh uh on how to uh protect ourselves spiritually.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh hey, for you out there that are listening, I don't know.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, I got good news for you.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: We we are over 1,300 downloads already.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, probably just this week.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, this week we have 50 downloads, but anyway.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, for you for all those that are tuning in.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: We thank you so much for being part of my brother's journey.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Seek Jesus in all you do and be fishers of men.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: God bless you.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Please join us again.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Viva Jesus.