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222: How to Identify and Eliminate Negative Cues in Business · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 1:21
  Hello, revolutionaries.
• 1:22
  Welcome back to another episode of the Customer Service Revolution Podcast.
• 1:27
  I am here with John DiJulius How are you, John?
• 1:31
  I am fantastic.
• 1:33
  How are you, Denise?
• 1:34
  I'm wonderful.
• 1:34
  Thank you so much.
• 1:35
  Did you have a good, we're recording this shortly after the 4th of July weekend.
• 1:40
  How was yours?
• 1:41
  This is the time to be in Cleveland.
• 1:44
  It's gorgeous.
• 1:45
  I'm actually leaving for Jamaica tomorrow and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm disappointed to be leaving Cleveland.
• 1:52
  It would be nice to be able to time these things, wouldn't it?
• 1:54
  Yeah.
• 1:55
  Yeah.
• 1:55
  But I'm also blessed that I get to go to Jamaica and work with great companies.
• 2:00
  Nice.
• 2:01
  So, John I want to talk about something you wrote recently about Southwest Airlines.
• 2:07
  Have they turned into just another US airline?
• 2:10
  Yeah.
• 2:11
  So it appears, I mean, for more than four decades, they were the outlier of US airline industry, right?
• 2:19
  Provided great customer service and industry where it appeared that the competitors were fighting to be the worst.
• 2:25
  Southwest consistently has ranked number one airline in domestic customer satisfaction for decades.
• 2:32
  They were the most profitable airline in the US.
• 2:35
  when you, combine the rest, together and then whenever we do workshops and we do, a lot of times we'll do an icebreaker, brands you can't live without, you know, always, always
• 2:45
  you'll hear Apple, Amazon, Target, you know, Southwest.
• 2:52
  So they're always mentioned, but,
• 2:54
  Yeah, they're changing some things.
• 2:56
  And what made them unique was their energy.
• 2:59
  They're always so nice.
• 3:01
  They made their flights fun.
• 3:03
  They do hilarious greetings where they take the mundane safety announcement and you're laughing.
• 3:12
  And they had open seatings with some like.
• 3:15
  know, free check bags, no rescheduling or cancellation fees.
• 3:19
  One of the things that always shocked me about Southwest, it should look this up, but the moment we park at the gate, it's gotta be less than two minutes before that door's open.
• 3:32
  And everyone else, I fly, it's gotta be over 10 minutes before that door opens up.
• 3:40
  Like that always impressed me that we were physically moving within two minutes of being parked at the gate.
• 3:46
  What do you think that is?
• 3:47
  Is that ramp agents?
• 3:49
  that on the put?
• 3:50
  What makes them so?
• 3:52
  day, yeah, back in the day, I don't know if this is still true, everyone was allowed, somehow they negotiate with their union and they're very union friendly, that it didn't
• 4:02
  just have to be the ramp people, that pilots and flight attendants and everyone was part of onboarding and, know, something I wrote about a long time ago.
• 4:14
  when early on in Southwest days, they were last in turnaround times.
• 4:18
  I mean, this is when they first started, last in turnaround times of their equipment, which obviously affected their on-time departure and on-time arrivals.
• 4:29
  So if I'm leading Southwest, and this is probably in the 70s, I would study the number one airline.
• 4:35
  that's doing it right.
• 4:36
  Southwest didn't do that.
• 4:38
  They studied NASCAR pit crews.
• 4:40
  And it led to, besides all the other things we mentioned, their customer service and all that, them being the most profitable airline and having the best KPI on-time departure,
• 4:50
  on-time arrivals.
• 4:52
  Yeah.
• 4:52
  But that's supposedly changing.
• 4:54
  oh So they've been profitable for years and then it changed.
• 5:01
  That's amazing for an airline, isn't it?
• 5:05
  I said, that's amazing for an airline, isn't it?
• 5:08
  How many others can say that?
• 5:09
  I don't think any.
• 5:10
  And their original strategy was simple.
• 5:12
  Happy employees lead to happy passengers, which lead to happy shareholders.
• 5:17
  But supposedly that's fading.
• 5:19
  Have you flown them recently?
• 5:20
  I have, not long ago, and it was still open seating.
• 5:23
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:23
  I know that's starting in the next few months on their crawl, walk, and running.
• 5:29
  I haven't necessarily noticed a drop off.
• 5:32
  They don't seem as over the top friendly, but they don't seem rude.
• 5:36
  But I'm more noticing what they're doing in the news.
• 5:39
  what's made them different is fading.
• 5:43
  They're adopting a signed seating, which I'm not against.
• 5:46
  shrinking space between rows, phasing out free bags, which I know that's, you know, a big thing that people are, are freaking.
• 5:53
  Even their pricing once a significant draw now blends in with the rest.
• 5:57
  Why?
• 5:58
  putting profits in front of, you know, everything else.
• 6:02
  and there was an article, in Wall Street, I'm sorry, in Inc.
• 6:05
  magazine.
• 6:06
  what leaders can learn from Southwest Airlines slow fade from greatness to sameness.
• 6:11
  Southwest mechanics said shareholders come first, not employees.
• 6:15
  It's all about the money.
• 6:16
  once was Southwest unique uniqueness is slipping away.
• 6:20
  So in addition, Southwest experienced major operational failures, including a widespread cancellation in steep fees driven in part by under investment.
• 6:32
  in maintaining and modernizing its aging fleet, which is short-term profit stick priority.
• 6:39
  Essential long-term improvements are often neglected with passengers bearing the brunt.
• 6:45
  As a result, Southwest Stock, LUV, fell from $66.99 in 2018 to $31.
• 6:59
  as of June 25th.
• 7:01
  So more than half.
• 7:03
  What's your thoughts?
• 7:05
  that hurts.
• 7:06
  So who owns Southwest now?
• 7:08
  Southwest I don't think yeah, I don't think
• 7:11
  was no change in ownership that created this.
• 7:14
  Not that I'm aware of.
• 7:15
  Now, I'm going to guess it's been, let's find out.
• 7:19
  like a CEO move.
• 7:21
  Right, but Herb Kelleher died.
• 7:23
  The founder and the person who made them so unique.
• 7:27
  I'm trying to see, I want to say in the past 10 years.
• 7:30
  Um, he died.
• 7:32
  Oh, wow.
• 7:32
  He died in 2019.
• 7:34
  Yeah.
• 7:34
  So, wow.
• 7:35
  That's the last year they were profitable.
• 7:37
  Yeah.
• 7:38
  Isn't that interesting?
• 7:39
  Yeah, he was a maverick.
• 7:40
  He was so interesting.
• 7:42
  I don't know.
• 7:43
  Have you had any complaints?
• 7:45
  Branson kind of energy, right?
• 7:49
  Do you, have you still enjoyed flying them?
• 7:53
  Have you ever enjoyed flying them?
• 7:54
  So I think when you think of them as a low cost airline, they were the best for certain.
• 8:00
  I mean, when you put them up against Frontier Spirit, they were always fantastic.
• 8:04
  Sameness, I think is a good word for it now.
• 8:07
  I don't know if there is uncomfortable seat wise as some of the lesser expensive airlines, but their prices definitely are not less expensive now.
• 8:17
  We haven't seen their redesigned planes.
• 8:19
  That's, you know, that's probably going to shrink that seating, I'm assuming.
• 8:24
  I don't know.
• 8:25
  there prices going to be reflective of that?
• 8:27
  Because right now I don't see them as a bargain.
• 8:31
  I do see them as having some better, like flying out of Cleveland, especially, right?
• 8:36
  We're not a big hub for all the airlines as some are.
• 8:42
  So to get direct flights is always a big deal to me.
• 8:45
  And Southwest does have directs to some of the places I want to go.
• 8:49
  I'll pay a little more for that.
• 8:50
  Yeah.
• 8:51
  I even flew them to Jamaica.
• 8:56
  they're very convenient.
• 8:59
  was really cool, I don't know if this is still the case, they only had one plane, 747s, which the brilliance of that was all their pilots only had to be trained on one plane, all
• 9:11
  their parts.
• 9:12
  one plane, their mechanics, one, the simplicity of that was really, really cool.
• 9:17
  I don't know if they've changed from that.
• 9:19
  Yeah, I think that's smart.
• 9:20
  Yeah, good question.
• 9:21
  I wonder, have they changed from that?
• 9:22
  Are you able to pull that up there?
• 9:24
  I'm looking.
• 9:25
  But I do know there is a difference, I think, in staffing flight attendants, the personalities, maybe.
• 9:31
  It's not that they're rude by any means, but it's not that same energy.
• 9:36
  And if that does indeed come from the top, well.
• 9:38
  Yeah, they still only fly 737, all Boeings.
• 9:42
  Yeah, that was, I would say, could, honestly, I've never booked, rarely booked a flight based on price, especially because I'm not paying for it most of the time.
• 9:54
  So I look for most convenient.
• 9:56
  So Southwest was never,
• 9:58
  something I like gravitate, was just if they fell into my lap of they were the most convenient, direct, but I always enjoyed them because they had that energy and I never
• 10:08
  understood why it was so hard to get other airline people to enjoy their job.
• 10:15
  It'll be interesting.
• 10:16
  But it is a good case study because I wrote about this and we probably talked about this a couple of months ago, but you rarely see a company built on customer experience fail.
• 10:30
  Every company, and not that they don't fail from time to time, but the great companies built on customer service.
• 10:37
  usually are long lasting and they outperform everyone else.
• 10:42
  So you think about the Disney's, not that they haven't had struggles, Amazon, all those great companies, and the list just goes on.
• 10:50
  But Starbucks and Southwest both got away from what made them great the past four or five years.
• 10:56
  And so they're a case study in its own of
• 11:00
  now they're struggling and are they going to be able to recover?
• 11:06
  This sounds like a good research case study for you to work.
• 11:10
  Yeah, I've been following it.
• 11:11
  It's gonna take some time.
• 11:12
  and both.
• 11:13
  Well, one of the most significant contributors to customer service crisis is management's paranoia that customers are out to take advantage of them.
• 11:22
  I don't know that I've seen that so much in outwardly anyhow with Southwest, but we know that this leads to a significant amount of time that companies spend on creating and
• 11:32
  enforcing policy rather than creating positive customer experiences.
• 11:36
  Definitely see that in the lower budget.
• 11:39
  airlines with the policies they have that take advantage.
• 11:42
  I feel take advantage of the customers versus customers taking advantage of the airline.
• 11:48
  Why do so many companies agreements and policies sound so angry?
• 11:52
  Hmm.
• 11:53
  Well, back to the airline.
• 11:54
  I don't know if you saw that they had spirit and.
• 11:57
  maybe frontier a US Senate hearing and blasting them for they incentivize monetarily their gate agents to catch your bags oversized and then they get a commission.
• 12:11
  So yeah, I like to say build your tier question, build your company's customer experience as if no,
• 12:19
  customers have bad intention.
• 12:21
  And I think we build it the opposite and create all these policies and warnings and all these things that send off such a negative.
• 12:31
  Everything speaks, right?
• 12:33
  Not only what our employees say literally speaks, but whether you go to someone's website or...
• 12:40
  outside, inside, signage, everything's saying something about your experience.
• 12:46
  the three most common, what we talk about negative cues is there's verbal, literally, signage and people's actions.
• 12:58
  those all can be negative cues that you have to
• 13:03
  do an audit of your business and see if you have any negative cues.
• 13:07
  Okay, I think this is a great topic, negative cues.
• 13:11
  Where do people start looking for negative cues?
• 13:15
  If you're a brick and mortar, it's gonna be different than if you're someone whose customer experience is a user experience on the website.
• 13:24
  Yeah.
• 13:25
  So they all have them.
• 13:26
  So let's just first break the three down, verbal, negative cues.
• 13:30
  So it's the language we use.
• 13:32
  Every word we use matters.
• 13:34
  So some examples I have is years ago, I checked in for a doctor's appointment and the receptionist says, we need to verify your information.
• 13:45
  I was like, oh my God, I swear to God, I'm me.
• 13:48
  I felt like they thought I was using my...
• 13:50
  cousin Vinny's insurance card or something.
• 13:53
  But it was kind of insulting, right?
• 13:55
  And if you change one word, verify, to confirm or update, that's not insulting to me.
• 14:03
  And actually, in this one instance that I remember, I would be appreciative if they confirmed or updated my information, because I remember at that time,
• 14:14
  It had been several years since I was at this doctor's office, I had new insurance and I had moved.
• 14:20
  Had they not done that, it would have been a debacle with the insurance not covering it because the information.
• 14:27
  If she would have said, need to update or confirm, thank you.
• 14:31
  Thank you so much, but verify.
• 14:33
  in a, you know, a hair salon or a doctor's office or anything that has appointments where people are on your property.
• 14:40
  You know, when you go up to someone and say, you're, three thirties here or your next client is here.
• 14:46
  Well, what's your existing customer think that you're hurrying?
• 14:50
  So you have code words instead of saying, Denise, you're four o'clock here, you know, in the salon, we used to say, or I don't know if they still do, you know, Denise, do you want
• 14:59
  more water?
• 15:00
  Do you want ice?
• 15:01
  for your water and that was our code that they're piling up up front, right?
• 15:05
  Pick up the pace, but your client doesn't think that they've lost you mentally, you know, and that you're just moving faster.
• 15:12
  And then another one that 32 years ago, we did something that was unheard of.
• 15:17
  We would call our clients the day before and remind you of your three o'clock tomorrow, right?
• 15:24
  That was crazy customer service.
• 15:27
  that at that time no one did.
• 15:28
  Now it's all done digitally and text and all those great things.
• 15:32
  But a percentage of our guests at the salon would be offended because they know their schedule.
• 15:38
  You're insulting them by reminding them.
• 15:41
  So we change remind to confirm and we never got to complain again.
• 15:45
  So every word we use is matter.
• 15:48
  So you got to look at...
• 15:50
  you know, what terms we use, what employees say, you know, things like that.
• 15:57
  You know, so just like, there's another really good one, a verbal one that if someone's late, I don't know if you remember this, if this is around back when you were there.
• 16:09
  It's one thing to accommodate them, right?
• 16:11
  And we want to.
• 16:12
  You got stuck in traffic, things happen.
• 16:15
  But if you walk in 15, 20 minutes late for your three o'clock appointment and we just say, hi, Denise, great to see you.
• 16:22
  And we start your service.
• 16:24
  That's kind of training you, the customer, that you can walk in whenever you want.
• 16:28
  And we don't want that to happen.
• 16:30
  So some verbiage we use.
• 16:32
  is when you walk in, we say, my God, Denise, you're okay.
• 16:36
  I was worried about you and I was worried that I wasn't gonna be able to provide you with the full service.
• 16:42
  I still think we can, might, know, whatever the solution is.
• 16:46
  But when we say I was worried about you and I was worried that we wouldn't be able to do your haircut, pedicure, massage, whatever, it's a polite way of saying you're lucky this
• 16:56
  time.
• 16:56
  Right?
• 17:02
  Right.
• 16:58
  Yeah, even with, you you brought up the text confirmation messages that, everybody sends out now, whether it's a restaurant or doctor's office, beauty salon, whatever it might be.
• 17:07
  But even those things I think could be updated in a way to sound more fun, more polite, instead of just one, yes, two, no.
• 17:17
  You know, if you're as excited as we are about seeing us tomorrow, hit one.
• 17:23
  If you've had a change of plans,
• 17:25
  and you'd like us to contact you to reschedule press two kind of thing.
• 17:30
  Right.
• 17:30
  Yeah.
• 17:31
  Yeah, yeah.
• 17:31
  Everything speaks.
• 17:32
  So those are just some examples of verbals, know, fully committed versus booked, you know, just little things.
• 17:40
  probably the big, well, close to the biggest one is signage or words.
• 17:47
  Again, you have to go to your agreements.
• 17:50
  Yeah.
• 17:50
  you go to signage, sticking on verbal, I think one of the biggest things with verbal is just the tone of your voice, not just what you say, but how you say it.
• 18:00
  We always say you can tell when someone has a smile in their voice.
• 18:04
  So I know some of our clients have put mirrors up next to monitors to remind people to smile.
• 18:10
  When you sound rushed when you answer the phone,
• 18:12
  That is, I think, a verbal cue negative.
• 18:15
  Yeah, you're so right on the tone because like Chick-fil-A and the Ritz-Carlton will tell you they made a mistake 30 years ago when they only gave their employees one option
• 18:25
  instead of no problem, my pleasure.
• 18:27
  But after the 50th time this hour, it didn't sound like my pleasure.
• 18:32
  So.
• 18:32
  making sure that they have more than just one option.
• 18:35
  It's not overly scripted.
• 18:37
  Certainly my pleasure.
• 18:38
  Absolutely.
• 18:39
  I'd be happy to, but making sure that it's not like my pleasure, right?
• 18:43
  Right words, wrong tone.
• 18:46
  Say it like you mean it.
• 18:46
  If you're happy, tell your face.
• 20:11
  Okay, so what's the best way for companies to audit verbal negative cues?
• 20:16
  Well, so it's not only verbal, even though that's the examples I've given, it's written, it's anything.
• 20:24
  so obviously what our most common answers, responses are, but B2B, know, in any business that has a website, which is every business, what's put on there?
• 20:35
  mean, negative cues to me is just a great example.
• 20:40
  or a barometer of the service aptitude of the owner.
• 20:43
  Because if there's a ton of negative cues everywhere, he or she is so paranoid.
• 20:48
  And my favorite quote to this is, don't punish 98 % of your customers for what you're afraid 2 % will get.
• 20:55
  And you know, sadly, one of the highest selling signs on Amazon, I read this once, is the sign that you could buy.
• 21:05
  we reserve the right to sell to, you know, I forget the rest of it.
• 21:12
  But if you think about if you walk into most places, there's a sign at the coat room, we're not responsible for lost or stolen garments.
• 21:21
  There's a sign at the desk where you're paying.
• 21:24
  There will be a $30 fee if you bounce a check.
• 21:28
  And, you know, listen, all those
• 21:31
  I feel like when someone has bounced a check, they felt horrible, they understood that there's bank fees.
• 21:39
  I just don't think we have to insult every customer for what one or two are gonna happen to.
• 21:46
  So, look at your websites, look at all the warnings, how hard it is to do business.
• 21:52
  Contracts.
• 21:53
  I remember back when you were in the salons, you helped us.
• 21:57
  We had a lot of stuff about kids aren't allowed at the salon, or if they aren't getting an appointment.
• 22:04
  And on its surface, that sounds really like we hate kids.
• 22:08
  But I remember you went through and talked about how it was in the best interest of the kid because there's flat irons and there's curling irons and there's scissors and...
• 22:19
  You don't want your kid running around while you're getting a service for two, three hours.
• 22:24
  Besides that, it's not the best experience for everyone else that's come into a salon and spa for an escape.
• 22:31
  So a lot of times, especially when we go over the visual signage,
• 22:36
  A percentage of the time, I don't even think it's 50, but it is a percentage of time.
• 22:40
  You still need what you're telling them, but there's a different way to say it.
• 22:44
  Like we don't want kids there, right?
• 22:47
  Unattended or if they're, you know, know, cause you didn't get a baby sir, you want to come in for a three hour highlight or massage.
• 22:53
  You think you could just leave the kids up front, but there's better ways of saying it.
• 22:57
  Like you're doing them a service, not, you know, punishing them.
• 23:03
  What other examples do you have?
• 23:04
  So signage, signage is the most often.
• 23:07
  Now this is more if you're brick and mortar, but I literally have pictures that in my presentations I show.
• 23:14
  are pictures that people have sent me or I've physically taken.
• 23:18
  The most common ones we'll see in restaurants is employees must wash hands before returning to work.
• 23:24
  So now legally I think a lot of states, they have to, but.
• 23:29
  They don't have to say it that way.
• 23:30
  Like I have a picture, we care about our facilities.
• 23:33
  That's why we have a hundred percent commitment to employees, know, sanitation, you know, after they use the restroom.
• 23:40
  But I have one picture of a restroom, of a fast food restaurant that I stopped at, wanted to order, but had to go to the bathroom first.
• 23:50
  And in the picture, there's four different signs.
• 23:55
  in their restroom that says employees must wash hands before returning to work.
• 23:59
  There was one above the door handle, there's one above the paper dispenser, there's one above the soap dispenser, and then there's one on the mirror above the faucet.
• 24:10
  I was like, my God, right.
• 24:12
  Like they must have an epidemic and I didn't stay in order, right?
• 24:16
  So there's must have receipt to use restroom.
• 24:20
  Here's a picture of, this was at like a retail store on the cash register where the customer sits.
• 24:27
  If you're on your cell phone while at the counter, we'll not wait on you.
• 24:32
  Okay?
• 24:33
  And I understand where this stems from.
• 24:35
  Someone was, you know, holding up the line, talking, but I have another picture of a sign.
• 24:42
  from Sudsy Dry Cleaner in South Beach.
• 24:45
  Their sign says, don't hang up and just write on this pad, are you picking up or dropping off your name?
• 24:52
  And we know your call is important to you, right?
• 24:55
  So it's just an opposite approach.
• 24:58
  I have a picture of a sign that was on, someone sent this to me of a doctor's office.
• 25:04
  window receptionist is closed with the sign that says, there's only one person working here.
• 25:09
  Please have patience.
• 25:10
  Do not stand in front or knock on the window.
• 25:13
  If no one is present, I'm either assisting another patient or handling specimens.
• 25:22
  Right, right, right.
• 25:24
  My favorite all time example is, it was called the wine loft and it was in Fort Worth, Texas and
• 25:30
  Back in my jogging days, I went out jogging in the morning.
• 25:33
  It was this beautiful outside lifestyle mall.
• 25:36
  Is that what they're called?
• 25:37
  Is that, you know, where you have all the fancy things?
• 25:40
  And I'm just running down it early in the morning and I come to the wine loft and the gorgeous, gorgeous wine bar.
• 25:47
  And I took a picture of their door and it has nine or 11 nos on it.
• 25:53
  So it says the wine loft dress code on the door.
• 25:57
  that you, no athletic pants, shirts or shoes, no hats, no Bluetooth devices,
• 26:03
  No baggy clothes, no excessive jewelry, no t-shirts, no muscle shirts, no ripped, torn or frayed clothing.
• 26:11
  So those were all the notes.
• 26:13
  Then the next line says business casual or business attire is suggested.
• 26:18
  That's all they needed.
• 26:19
  I went back eight months, a year later, jogged the same place and they were out of business.
• 26:24
  So what are they focusing on?
• 26:27
  Another, go ahead.
• 26:28
  remember going somewhere one time with some people and when you walked in, the host said to one of the men in the group, I'm sorry, but you can't come in here with jeans on.
• 26:39
  And he said, should I take them off here?
• 26:41
  Yeah.
• 26:43
  And again, you have dress code, whatever.
• 26:46
  An example of, we had this in the spa, and I saw this at Travel Centers of America truck repair.
• 26:53
  So very similar examples.
• 26:56
  When we were working at Travel Centers, they had a sign, so you'd wait in their lobby for your truck to be repaired.
• 27:04
  but there was a sign on the door to the bay where they were working on your truck that said, no, drivers allowed passes point.
• 27:12
  And drivers would get annoyed and they'd get suspicious.
• 27:14
  Why?
• 27:15
  Why aren't I allowed to, know, truck and what are you doing?
• 27:19
  Are you poking holes in my radiator so I have to come back tomorrow?
• 27:22
  And we get suspicious.
• 27:23
  And I'm really bad at this.
• 27:25
  If you tell me I can't, I'm going to.
• 27:27
  So for instance,
• 27:29
  I've never turned my cell phone off on a plane.
• 27:31
  I just know that's not a real thing.
• 27:34
  So if you're ever on a plane and we crash, it's my fault, right?
• 27:37
  In the salon, in our early days, in our salon, we have a salon section of where people get haircuts and their nails done and it's louder and more energy and music.
• 27:52
  And then we have a spa side that usually separated.
• 27:56
  and that's quiet and people are whispering and you know all about that.
• 28:00
  We used to have a sign, no cell phones allowed past this point.
• 28:04
  And that was horrible, right?
• 28:06
  So instead of, know, while we don't want cell phones past that point, we can't tell people that.
• 28:12
  So the way we changed was thank you for keeping this a cell phone free serenity experience.
• 28:18
  And so I'm more apt and people are more apt to cooperate.
• 28:21
  So they changed the travel centers repair from no drivers allowed passes point.
• 28:28
  It was actually an insurance regulation.
• 28:31
  If a driver went into the bay and slipped and fall on the greasy floor, you know, they weren't going to cover his injuries.
• 28:37
  So they changed that sign from no drivers allowed passes point to
• 28:43
  If you should need something from your truck, please ask one of us and we'll get it or escort you to it.
• 28:50
  So it's not a punishment.
• 28:51
  you now you, you know, you, you make it realize it's for your best interest, kind of like no kids at the salon unattended or without a service.
• 29:00
  So there's a lot of things like that, that, I mean, we could just go on and on, but you have to do an audit.
• 29:06
  And then there's the third one, there's verbal written words, there's signage, just stand out front of your business and see all the things on your doors and all that.
• 29:18
  And then the things when you walk in at front desk.
• 29:20
  And then there's actions that employees can do.
• 29:23
  And an employee on break smoking a cigarette where customers can see them, right?
• 29:30
  we have to teach employees what onstage and offstage is.
• 29:33
  And if you allow for that, great, but they gotta be somewhere where no one can see or hear them what is onstage and offstage.
• 29:42
  you know, things like that when they're off and they come in to do, you know, their sister's hair and they dress like they're off, right?
• 29:52
  That's a negative cue.
• 29:53
  The rest of the...
• 29:54
  customers there don't know they're off.
• 29:56
  They just see unprofessionalism.
• 29:59
  So, you you look at what negative cues you can eliminate or change and make them more positive.
• 30:06
  You know, look on your website, verbiage terminology, signage, what onstage and offstage, agreements, employees actions, code words, terminology that the company understands, but
• 30:18
  doesn't make any sense to the customer.
• 30:20
  So things like that.
• 30:21
  Where does dress code fall in this?
• 30:23
  I mean, that's a negative cue or potentially can be.
• 30:26
  So yeah, it's part of that.
• 30:30
  Anything that can be seen or heard is an experience on the phone.
• 30:34
  And with the work from home option, you got to be careful of what is going on with dogs barking and babies crying and kids running in and out, even if you're not on Zoom.
• 30:46
  but you're just answering calls from your home.
• 30:49
  Those are all negative cues of experiences.
• 30:53
  Sometimes I don't know when someone's talking to me.
• 30:56
  Like I'm like, I'm sorry, like this is making no sense.
• 30:58
  I'm sorry, I wasn't talking to you.
• 31:00
  And it's like, why are you having multiple conversations when you're on the phone with me as a customer?
• 31:05
  So negative cues, that's the first place we start when we work with companies discovery.
• 31:09
  We'll go to, if they have locations, and we'll just look outside.
• 31:13
  It could be dirty, could be clutter, it could be...
• 31:16
  One of my biggest pet peeves is I always, if there's two doors, I always go to the left door and open that because half the time it's locked.
• 31:25
  whenever I go to any of our salons, I do that every time.
• 31:30
  And rarely is it locked, but it drives me crazy when someone forgets to unlock both doors.
• 31:36
  Because I get mad when I like pull a door and I'm like, you know, my shoulder hurts from it not opening.
• 31:42
  So little things like that.
• 31:43
  But we'll look at the window.
• 31:45
  In working with restaurants, you know, like a Starbucks or a Chick-fil-A or any type of, you know, visually, there's so many literal signs and
• 31:56
  advertising and that you can't see the menu or you can't see the person taking your order, all that sight lines is negative cues.
• 32:06
  Clean up the clutter.
• 32:07
  My favorite thing that, say that.
• 32:10
  out of date.
• 32:11
  Sometimes you see advertisements that are out of date, an upcoming event, and it's already passed.
• 32:16
  Day, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:19
  One of my favorite things that we did in the salons is have removed the front desk.
• 32:23
  So there's no front desk, which is anti-salonish, right?
• 32:27
  You walk in and there's no front desk, because that front desk is just clutter.
• 32:32
  And...
• 32:32
  does that look like for people who are not familiar with a salon entrance like that where there is no glass?
• 32:40
  How do you do it?
• 32:41
  How do you make that work?
• 32:43
  Because I can see people right away going, yeah, but we need, we have our check-in computer, we have our check out, we have this, that, all the different things that they
• 32:52
  feel they need at that point.
• 32:55
  like Southwest studied NASCAR pit crews, we studied Apple, one of the greatest retailers ever.
• 33:01
  And there is no checkout line at Apple.
• 33:03
  You don't get your product and then go to a section of the thing.
• 33:07
  That person can check you out right there, where you're standing.
• 33:11
  And there's hidden cash registers if they're paying in cash.
• 33:15
  know, hidden printers for receipts, whatever that may look like.
• 33:19
  so that's what we did because, and this isn't salon specific.
• 33:23
  I think this should be a doctor's office.
• 33:25
  I think this should be everywhere in retail.
• 33:28
  That desk is usually big and it's just a collector of all the things we're talking about, signage and make sure they know we have a BOGO and you know, the clutter.
• 33:40
  and the printer and the register and all those ugly things.
• 33:45
  The other thing that it can do is if you sit or stand behind there, you're making customers come to you.
• 33:53
  And if you're sitting, right, it's stealing your energy.
• 33:58
  So when you don't have a front desk and someone on an iPad, they come to you.
• 34:05
  You don't...
• 34:06
  Go to this.
• 34:07
  You don't walk in.
• 34:08
  And the biggest compliment we've ever gotten in the salons early on was when someone walked in and never been to our salon and walked out and looked at the sign, because it
• 34:19
  didn't look like a hair salon when they walked in.
• 34:21
  There's more room for retail.
• 34:22
  There's more room for demonstrations.
• 34:24
  There's more room for revenue producing things.
• 34:28
  whoever.
• 34:29
  cashier, whatever you want to call the person, goes to you and isn't sitting and making you come to them.
• 34:35
  And you get creative with all where you're going to put the printer.
• 34:39
  Today, really, how many people want print receipts versus if they want a receipt, they will email it to you?
• 34:46
  There's so many things.
• 34:47
  How many people are paying with cash today?
• 34:49
  We have it if we need it, but it doesn't need to take prime real estate.
• 34:54
  I like that.
• 34:54
  would be nice even in, think about high-end retailers, clothing, that kind of thing, if the person assisting you could just check you out right there.
• 35:03
  Correct.
• 35:03
  Correct.
• 35:04
  something that we've learned to do now in some salons you can, if they're independent contractors, they're going to check you out.
• 35:10
  But in traditional salons where they're employees, what we've learned is that when you're wrapping up your haircut, your highlight, your pedicure, the lack of a better word,
• 35:22
  cashier, we call them guest care.
• 35:24
  will come to you and can check you out while you're at that station and get your products and do all that.
• 35:30
  So when you're actually done with your service, you can get the hell out of there and don't have to go wait in line.
• 35:36
  while there's, know, if it's the top of the hour, that means people are coming in and leaving.
• 35:42
  And so, you know, there's a line of people checking in, check out.
• 35:44
  Well, you can remove that traffic by going to them.
• 35:48
  before they're done and wrapping up their service, you know, and ringing them out at that station, at that chair, wherever.
• 35:56
  Yeah, I would think that, yeah, that keeps your lines down and that too.
• 36:00
  I was just thinking, I was at, there's a bakery that I go to in the morning sometimes for coffee or maybe bakery and maybe bakery.
• 36:12
  But when you check out, so there's a person that takes your order.
• 36:16
  baker, bakery person listens to our podcast.
• 36:19
  Didn't you tell me that?
• 36:20
  Is that the same one?
• 36:21
  Oh, you go to a lot of bakeries.
• 36:23
  do go to a lot of bakeries.
• 36:25
  This place has the best sourdough bread, so I get my sourdough bread there.
• 36:29
  when you check out, you order from one person when you come in, and then you check out.
• 36:34
  And so they have to communicate to the person checking you out what you ordered.
• 36:38
  Now, why they can't just ask me, as if I'm going to lie about that loaf of bread that's sitting there and the coffee that's like, you have to wait for that person to communicate.
• 36:48
  There are little bottlenecks like that that
• 36:50
  I don't think businesses see from the inside, but you see as a client, there is a customer.
• 36:57
  So I love when you and Dave go into a business and you can see things with fresh eyes because it does, it changes your perspective.
• 37:05
  Think of all the stores that you walk by.
• 37:07
  I walk a lot and when I walk by stores in the morning and things are closed, it's a great opportunity to see those kinds of things.
• 37:15
  And I'll walk by and I can't help it.
• 37:17
  You get jaded when you do this and you talk about this regularly.
• 37:21
  I look at windows and think they could change this, they could do this, they could do that.
• 37:26
  Even having um flowers out front that aren't watered
• 37:29
  Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 37:31
  100%.
• 37:32
  And like I said, this all tells me all I need to know, how many negative cues you have, tells me all I need to know about who's running your business.
• 37:42
  know, everything speaks and everything's a warning and everything's a punishment because you're so paranoid.
• 37:49
  But on top of that, that's the culture you're going to create.
• 37:52
  And that's why, when we go back to the earlier example, Spirit Airlines is trying to bust you on your bag is too big and you have to check it and pay.
• 38:03
  I mean, it's just a culture that employees, when they're around a bunch of negative cues and policy, policy, policy, have to hide behind that policy or they'll get in trouble.
• 38:13
  And now we're beating up the messenger who says, sorry, you're
• 38:18
  whatever, you can't wear jeans here or whatever the policy is.
• 38:24
  And then we're taking it out on them.
• 38:26
  And they hate their job.
• 38:28
  They hate the customers because the customers are all mean and nasty.
• 38:31
  Well, that's because of the top.
• 38:36
  And the top is forcing them to enforce and punish 98 % of the customers for what?
• 38:42
  2 % all.
• 38:43
  And I'm okay with getting taken advantage 2 % of the I doubt it's even close to that high.
• 38:49
  But if it is, because what we get back from the 98 % that can't believe, we trusted them and we made it right.
• 38:55
  Yeah, so getting employees to do this is another I think could be obstacle.
• 39:00
  Training is really important because they may not know to look for those things.
• 39:05
  So how do you train employees on the negative cues?
• 39:09
  Well, so obviously it starts with senior leadership and all your department heads to audit it constantly and educate them.
• 39:19
  We want no negative cues.
• 39:20
  We want nothing that goes out there that can be interpreted.
• 39:25
  I'm sure you remember this.
• 39:28
  don't know, 15 years ago, I was doing someone a favor.
• 39:34
  locally and I was presenting something for them.
• 39:37
  No charge, right?
• 39:38
  Whatever.
• 39:39
  But then we got a fully paid event asking for that date.
• 39:45
  So I mentioned to someone on our team to just ask that, tell them, because it was long enough, can we just move the freebie that we were doing to another day?
• 39:56
  Do you remember what they emailed them?
• 39:58
  I don't remember.
• 39:59
  Why don't I not remember this?
• 40:01
  They emailed, you know, dear Sarah, on October 15th, when John's supposed to do that free presentation, he's now been booked by a paying client, so we're gonna need to reschedule
• 40:14
  it.
• 40:14
  And I was so mad that, you know, she knows it's...
• 40:19
  She knows it's free.
• 40:20
  You didn't have to make her feel, just ask her, is it possible that we moved the date?
• 40:24
  But to me, those are negative cues.
• 40:26
  It's our email responses.
• 40:28
  It's me making you wrong in the email, making sure like, you're like, what happened to our two o'clock Zoom call?
• 40:36
  Well, Denise, if you see below, I copied and you told you it was this day and making you wrong first.
• 40:43
  before I say, you available now or whatever.
• 40:46
  All those, I mean, there's so many negative cues that come in so many ways.
• 40:49
  So I guess back to your question, it really needs to be done for the top.
• 40:52
  But once the top tells employees why, and we don't wanna hide behind policy, and we want you to have the uh autonomy to use your best judgment and that, and then let us know if
• 41:05
  you see any negative cues that slips through the cracks.
• 41:08
  But that's all part of that service aptitude.
• 41:11
  But service aptitude comes from the top.
• 41:13
  And most of these things, signage is coming from the top.
• 41:16
  So I think it's hard to audit someone for something they don't realize they're fully responsible for.
• 41:23
  And I don't think it's innate for most people to, especially younger people, to see something on the floor and necessarily pick it up.
• 41:31
  Like think little things like that, that others might catch or that you might see if you are a customer, but you get so used to seeing when you're an employee, that
• 41:42
  that black mark on the wall that's been there since I got here.
• 41:45
  Yeah.
• 41:47
  So leadership has to audit it, but it's not getting employees in trouble because usually employees are doing what they were trained and told.
• 41:54
  And the previous person who trained me told me, we can't do this, we can't allow this, we can't allow this.
• 42:00
  so if you're auditing it, you just say, do you need to...
• 42:04
  And that's one of our zero risk workshop exercises is what are the areas you get asked the most?
• 42:12
  that you can't say yes to.
• 42:13
  unless you come up with a dozen of them.
• 42:15
  Are any of those dozens that we can't say, can we say yes?
• 42:19
  Is it possible?
• 42:20
  Are we just saying no because someone told you we couldn't five years ago?
• 42:24
  You're gonna find 10 % that why are we saying no?
• 42:27
  We could actually say yes to that.
• 42:28
  Five years ago we couldn't, but today we can't.
• 42:31
  But the other 90, 80 % that we still maybe can't say yes to, we find ways not saying no.
• 42:38
  No is a negative Q.
• 42:39
  No is a negative trigger.
• 42:41
  No is Latin that I'm lazy and I'm not going to help you figure this out.
• 42:45
  So that's part of all this.
• 42:46
  There's a lot to negative cues.
• 42:48
  You just brought up Zero Risk.
• 42:51
  And for our listeners, if you are not currently a member of the Experience Revolution, it's a program I would highly recommend you joining.
• 43:01
  The Experience Revolution membership gets you access to workshops, one of them being the Zero Risk workshop, where you can actually build these different systems that John is
• 43:12
  talking about.
• 43:13
  Negative cues, is that coming up, John?
• 43:15
  or did negative cues happen already?
• 43:16
  We did zero risk in June.
• 43:19
  So it usually goes with zero risk.
• 43:21
  I can't remember if we did it, but you can get it.
• 43:23
  With your membership, you get past right?
• 43:25
  Yeah, so once you have a membership for the Experience Revolution, you get access to all of the past workshops that have happened and all of the upcoming ones.
• 43:35
  Each annual membership offers four live stream workshops.
• 43:40
  So you can join and ask questions to John and Dave, our VP of Consulting, live during these workshops.
• 43:46
  So just want to make sure I bring that up.
• 43:48
  Yeah, I believe the future ones, the fall and the winter live stream workshops of 2025 is on recruiting and maybe onboarding new employees.
• 44:03
  All right, so to register, can visit thedijuliusgroup.com and under training look for experience revolution membership.
• 44:10
  And there will also be uh links to it in the show notes.
• 44:13
  All right.
• 44:13
  So auditing, John, do you recommend that people have a checklist that they go through?
• 44:19
  What does that look like?
• 44:23
  yeah.
• 44:22
  yeah, it's just scanning constantly the website because there's so many hands that get put into the website and you might, from your department, run and tell the IT person, oh, we
• 44:33
  need this on there.
• 44:34
  Oh, we got to update this and take this off.
• 44:37
  And all of a sudden it's a hodgepodge of different people's tones and service aptitudes.
• 44:43
  So there has to be...
• 44:45
  your chief experience officer is ever losing sleep at night.
• 44:48
  This has to be one of their core tenants that they're constantly auditing websites, agreements.
• 44:54
  And again, a lot of stuff in agreements have to be in there, but it's the way we word them, right?
• 45:00
  And that it's to protect both parties or in your best interest.
• 45:05
  Signage, signage, God, there should be no signage in salons or in businesses.
• 45:11
  um But it's all those things.
• 45:13
  It's your email communications.
• 45:15
  What are we putting there?
• 45:16
  What are we saying?
• 45:17
  What's your signature look like?
• 45:21
  All those things.
• 45:22
  Your text confirmation, digital communication.
• 45:25
  So verbal signage.
• 45:27
  Verbal terminology, that's verbal is also written, Actual signage that people can see and then employee actions.
• 45:38
  And on top of what they could say is that you visually can see them, that they're on stage, all those
• 45:44
  So this is a lot to cover.
• 45:45
  It's a lot to unpack negative cues and gives our listeners a lot of homework.
• 45:50
  If you haven't done an audit recently, even if you've done one in the past, we recommend that you go back and take a look at these kinds of things regularly.
• 45:57
  John, before we close out today, let's talk a little bit about living an extraordinary life.
• 46:03
  All right, so I like to end every episode we can with living an extraordinary life so countless others do.
• 46:11
  the example I wanna share with you today is the, you know, for centuries humans tried to find a way to break the four minute mile.
• 46:19
  Legend has it that men were chased by lions to see if that helped them run faster.
• 46:25
  Unfortunately, that did not end too well for the men.
• 46:29
  By the early 1950s, medical experts had determined the human body was simply not capable of eclipsing a four-minute mile pace.
• 46:37
  It wasn't just dangerous, it was impossible.
• 46:41
  The human body had reached its limits.
• 46:44
  But on May 6th, 1954, Rodger Bannister made history and shocked the world when he broke the four-minute barrier.
• 46:53
  The impossible was made possible.
• 46:55
  Could this feat ever happen again?
• 46:57
  It had never happened before that.
• 47:00
  Within the next 12 months, 24 more runners broke the four-minute mile.
• 47:05
  Let me say that again.
• 47:06
  Within the next 12 months, the next year, 24 more runners broke the four-minute mile mark.
• 47:12
  So what happened in that following 12 months?
• 47:16
  Did the human anatomy change?
• 47:17
  No.
• 47:18
  the belief system of what people thought possible change.
• 47:22
  This applies to every aspect of our lives.
• 47:24
  What belief system needs to be changed in your world?
• 47:28
  Did you see, someone told me this.
• 47:30
  I didn't see it.
• 47:31
  A woman, yeah.
• 47:32
  Yeah, she she came very close.
• 47:36
  Yeah.
• 47:37
  Four minutes, seven seconds.
• 47:39
  Oh wow.
• 47:39
  Oh, but that was, she attempted to break the four minute mile twice in June of 2025 and in February of 2025.
• 47:47
  She's going to do it.
• 47:48
  She'll do it.
• 47:49
  All right, what's your fastest time, Denise?
• 47:52
  Yeah.
• 47:53
  a good question.
• 47:54
  I'm not that fast a runner.
• 47:55
  mean, like an eight minute mile would be a great one for me.
• 47:59
  I am so slow.
• 48:00
  I'm double digits.
• 48:01
  Are you really?
• 48:02
  My legs are longer than yours.
• 48:04
  don't run that often.
• 48:05
  I don't like running.
• 48:06
  I think in a 5K one time, I was at seven something, which was flying for me.
• 48:13
  I can't come close to that now.
• 48:14
  Yeah, for me a 5k as long as I'm under 30 minutes, I'm like, that's good.
• 48:19
  But like to get near 20 minutes is just, I don't, I guess I don't have a strong enough desire to train to do that.
• 48:28
  think it's what it takes.
• 48:29
  Mind over matter.
• 48:30
  Yeah.
• 48:30
  Well, thank you, John, for another great episode of the Customer Service Revolution podcast.
• 48:36
  And we'll see you all next week.
• 48:38
  Thanks, John.