Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E75 An Interview with Larry Kaufman and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: S1E75 An Interview with Larry Kaufman and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:16
  Welcome back to Connections. I'm your host, Michael
• 0:20
  Foreman, and today's episode is all about how
• 0:24
  to build a business, a reputation, and a legacy
• 0:27
  by showing up with purpose and generosity. My
• 0:31
  guest is the author of NCG Factor, a powerhouse
• 0:35
  framework that stands for networking, connecting,
• 0:39
  and giving. He's on a mission to help professionals
• 0:42
  stop showing up and throwing up. in sales conversations.
• 0:46
  And today, start building authentic relationships
• 0:50
  that open doors, close deals, and create real
• 0:54
  impact. From mastering LinkedIn the right way
• 0:57
  to becoming indispensable in your career or your
• 1:00
  personal life and your personal life. We're going
• 1:04
  deep on how to sell without selling, connect
• 1:07
  without faking it, and lead with value instead
• 1:10
  of ego. If you're ready to learn about how to
• 1:14
  network like a pro, connect like a human, and
• 1:17
  grow your business with intention, you're in
• 1:20
  the right place. So let's start. I would like
• 1:23
  to welcome Larry Kaufman. He is the author of
• 1:26
  the book I just mentioned. Larry, welcome to
• 1:29
  the podcast, and give us a little bit about your
• 1:31
  background. Michael, thank you. Very nice to
• 1:34
  meet you, and I love that East Coast. The way
• 1:37
  that you say my last name is not the way that
• 1:40
  I introduce myself. I'm Larry Kaufman, but I
• 1:43
  like the way you say it better. Great to meet
• 1:46
  you. I'm Illinois born, and I've lived here all
• 1:50
  my life, actually. And so I would say I am a
• 1:55
  salesperson from the time I was in college to
• 1:58
  present, even though I'm in leadership. I'm always
• 2:01
  a salesperson, but I'm not an in -your -face
• 2:04
  salesperson. And I've been in all types of industries.
• 2:09
  But I think we are very similar in our approaches
• 2:12
  to networking, building relationships. I think
• 2:15
  we're going to talk a very similar speak today.
• 2:19
  And I would say that if you were to look at me,
• 2:23
  I'm a giver, connector. I'm a global speaker,
• 2:27
  LinkedIn expert, and a business leader. And I'll
• 2:31
  give you a little personal. Married 36 years,
• 2:34
  coming up Friday this week. I don't know why
• 2:37
  she stays with me, but I'm glad she does. And
• 2:40
  I have two children in their 20s. Hopefully they'll
• 2:43
  be leaving the home soon. I'm working on that.
• 2:46
  But other than that, everything's great. That
• 2:49
  sounds terrific. I see a kinship with what we
• 2:52
  talk about. I too, by the way, have been married
• 2:55
  36 years, two weeks ago. So we're... the same
• 2:59
  in that regard. Do you believe that everybody
• 3:02
  is a salesperson? Everybody is the face of the
• 3:06
  company. I think a lot of things that we do in
• 3:10
  general, everyone has to sell, right? You have
• 3:12
  to sell yourself in whatever role you're in,
• 3:14
  when you interview for a job. And so I think
• 3:17
  that whatever capacity, definitely if you're
• 3:19
  in a sales role. And sometimes people who are
• 3:22
  in a sales role are really not salespeople, right?
• 3:25
  We've touched that world. We've worked with salespeople.
• 3:27
  Some survive, some don't. It's a hard job. Post
• 3:30
  -COVID, even more difficult. But Michael, I would
• 3:33
  say everyone is a salesperson in some way. To
• 3:36
  meet that significant other, there's a bit of
• 3:40
  a sales job. And sometimes you don't close that
• 3:43
  deal. No, that's true. That's true. That was
• 3:46
  just something that I... When I go on stages,
• 3:49
  I do workshops. That's always my first question.
• 3:53
  Who in this room is a salesperson? And if everybody
• 3:56
  doesn't raise their hand, I say something about
• 4:00
  it. But here, let me go into the questions. Let's
• 4:03
  kick off with the NCG factor. What inspired it?
• 4:07
  And how does networking, connecting, and giving
• 4:11
  actually play out in the real world of business?
• 4:15
  I think what inspired it was I reflected on my
• 4:18
  time back in the college days, right? Back when
• 4:21
  I went to college, because I'm very mature, not
• 4:24
  old, very mature. Back when I went to college,
• 4:27
  I didn't have the internet, right? I didn't have
• 4:29
  LinkedIn. I didn't have a cell phone. Everything
• 4:32
  was different back then. It was a different way
• 4:34
  of life. And back in my college days, it was
• 4:37
  about having fun. And I didn't think about serving
• 4:41
  on a charity board, a junior board, volunteering.
• 4:45
  It was all about Larry. It wasn't about other
• 4:47
  people. And I would say that things have changed
• 4:51
  a bit today. And so when I, I guess when I go
• 4:56
  out today and I get the opportunity to speak
• 4:58
  at a university, I'm so excited. Not that I don't
• 5:01
  like presenting to senior level salespeople or
• 5:05
  CEOs or board members, and I've done all that.
• 5:08
  But I love meeting with the college kids because
• 5:11
  they really haven't been exposed to networking.
• 5:14
  They haven't been exposed to building authentic
• 5:17
  relationships. And that's the time I want to
• 5:21
  catch them. That's the foundation they could
• 5:23
  build that no one taught me about that. And I
• 5:27
  want to help them understand LinkedIn. I want
• 5:28
  to help them understand networking. The book,
• 5:31
  The NCG Factor, is networking, connecting, giving.
• 5:35
  But it's a different way to network. I believe
• 5:38
  the way you and I like to network, right? With
• 5:41
  authenticity, building relationships, not this
• 5:45
  social exchange of business cards. I think we're
• 5:48
  trying to get to know people, right? We're not
• 5:50
  just, how many people can I meet at this event?
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  I was like that. I was that guy. I love going
• 5:54
  to events. And I just loaded my pockets with
• 5:57
  business cards. And if I came home empty, I thought,
• 6:00
  wow, this is great. Empty of mine and filled
• 6:04
  with other cards. It was a big win. That wasn't
• 6:07
  a big win. I wasn't getting to know people. And
• 6:11
  the connecting aspect, to me, I meet you today
• 6:16
  and I go, I know you were in the Air Force before.
• 6:19
  There was a friend of mine. I think you guys
• 6:21
  would align. He thinks like you. He was actually
• 6:24
  former Air Force. I think that way when I get
• 6:27
  to know people and I'll put people that have
• 6:29
  things in common. Or just they just have that
• 6:32
  match where I think they get along, they'd have
• 6:35
  a great conversation, potentially build a nice
• 6:37
  relationship. And the giving really is it's giving
• 6:41
  of your knowledge like you do that in your talks,
• 6:44
  your podcast. Giving isn't always about donating
• 6:48
  to a charity or about how much money you donate.
• 6:53
  It's giving of yourself and your time and your
• 6:57
  knowledge. That's the way I think. That's it's
• 7:01
  very true. And you hit on so many points that
• 7:05
  I wouldn't have time to discuss all of them.
• 7:07
  But do you believe I believe. OK, let me start
• 7:12
  that way. I believe that ever since the pandemic,
• 7:14
  we have everybody relies on Zoom on the cell
• 7:20
  phones. They forgot about this personal touch.
• 7:23
  And really, the days of building your customer
• 7:26
  list is gone. And the day of building relationships
• 7:31
  is here. So when I used to go, I was part of
• 7:37
  a mortgage company. I used to come home with
• 7:39
  a shoebox filled with business cards. They said,
• 7:42
  yeah, look how good I did. Did I do good? No,
• 7:46
  I didn't. Because I didn't have a relationship
• 7:49
  with any of them. So that's what I feel is the
• 7:53
  difference. Okay. So you talk about building
• 7:57
  authentic relationships. In a world full of noise
• 8:01
  and automation, how does someone actually do
• 8:05
  that without sounding scripted or salesy? I think
• 8:13
  it's got to be one of those things where you
• 8:15
  really do want to build a relationship. When
• 8:18
  I meet with people, they know right away that
• 8:21
  I'm authentic, that I'm not there to... You know,
• 8:25
  we talked, you said it earlier, show up and throw
• 8:27
  up. And too many people do that. And so I'd rather
• 8:31
  actually get to know the other person. I do some
• 8:33
  matchmaking too. And it works the same way in
• 8:36
  relationships, personal relationships. If you
• 8:39
  show up and throw up and you're not interested
• 8:40
  in the other person, you can't build a relationship.
• 8:44
  And I do think we are much more compassionate
• 8:46
  post -COVID. And we have to be more authentic.
• 8:49
  How do you do that? Look, some people, I'll be
• 8:52
  honest with you, some people... may struggle
• 8:54
  some people just that's just who they are i can
• 8:57
  we can only do so much to guide people there
• 8:59
  it's got to come from the heart and you're going
• 9:03
  to know you're going to be able to pick out that
• 9:04
  person that they're trying to be a little authentic
• 9:06
  but they can't wait to sell you their product
• 9:11
  or service they're like so tell me where you're
• 9:12
  from oh air force that's great by the way let
• 9:14
  me tell you what i represent I will talk to people
• 9:18
  and I could talk to them for an hour and they're
• 9:20
  like, Larry, you've asked all about me. I don't
• 9:23
  know anything about you. That's the best sales
• 9:26
  meeting that you could ever have. Because you
• 9:29
  learned about the other person. And you know,
• 9:31
  it's interesting when you do that authentically.
• 9:35
  And people authentically want to know what you
• 9:37
  do and what you represent. And it does come back
• 9:41
  around. And if it doesn't, that's fine. Have
• 9:44
  another meeting. But you learn so much about
• 9:46
  that person. to actually secure that next meeting.
• 9:51
  That's right. That's right. When you go to a
• 9:54
  networking event or you're meeting somebody,
• 9:56
  you go with what's called a servant's heart.
• 9:59
  You go there looking to give, not receive. If
• 10:04
  everybody was going to go to a networking event
• 10:07
  or meet with somebody and they had that in mind,
• 10:11
  everything would be beautiful. Because as you
• 10:14
  said, what goes around comes around. Or at least
• 10:17
  it should. So if you put two people together
• 10:21
  and you refer two people, then one of those two
• 10:24
  people are going to say, you know what? Larry
• 10:26
  referred me. I have to find somebody for Larry.
• 10:31
  So what goes around does come around. But you
• 10:34
  shouldn't expect it. Never expect it. Don't expect
• 10:38
  it. Don't expect it. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 10:42
  Okay. So you've said that we should stop showing
• 10:47
  up and throwing up when it comes to selling.
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  What are some of the biggest mistakes professionals
• 10:53
  make when networking or pitching themselves?
• 10:57
  One of the biggest mistakes is they do show up
• 11:00
  and throw up, which really means it's all about
• 11:03
  themselves. And so I met with an executive virtually,
• 11:08
  had a really nice 45 -minute meeting. It was
• 11:12
  over 43 minutes all about him. And it was challenging,
• 11:17
  but I'm a giver. I'm a good listener. And I'd
• 11:21
  ask questions, and he didn't know anything about
• 11:25
  me, not where I lived, if I had a relationship
• 11:28
  with anybody, if I had kids. What I did for a
• 11:32
  living, he knew nothing. I think I squeezed something
• 11:35
  in, and what I squeezed in was one ask that I
• 11:39
  have, can you read my book? And I have a chapter
• 11:43
  on takers never win. And he reached back out
• 11:48
  and wanted to have another meeting. And so we
• 11:51
  had that meeting and I said, what do you want
• 11:53
  to talk about? He said, I wanted to talk about
• 11:54
  you. Because I realized that reading your book,
• 11:58
  it was all about me. And I want to make it about
• 12:02
  you. And showing up and throwing up and some
• 12:06
  of the mistakes people make is they are too eager
• 12:09
  to talk about. themselves. And I try to counsel
• 12:13
  people. It's better if I can learn all about
• 12:15
  Michael and what you do, what you personally,
• 12:20
  where you're from, right? You can only go so
• 12:22
  deep, right? You don't want to get too personal,
• 12:24
  but hey, where'd you grow up? What'd you do?
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  And guess what? On LinkedIn, everything's kind
• 12:28
  of fair game if it's out there. Hey, I saw this
• 12:31
  on LinkedIn. Can you tell me more about this?
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  Or the great thing, you have AI, so you can pull
• 12:37
  up information about people. It's scraping. Maybe
• 12:40
  double check. Hey, I saw this about you. It just
• 12:43
  came up when I did some research. You better
• 12:46
  hope it truly is about that person because it
• 12:50
  says I'm a grandmaster chess champion, but that's
• 12:52
  the wrong Larry Kaufman. So be careful. I'm not
• 12:55
  that good at chess. But I think the mistake is
• 12:58
  we don't ask and listen. We just want to sell.
• 13:05
  Stop selling and start learning about the other
• 13:08
  person. personally, professionally, and start
• 13:11
  to build a rapport and relationship, everything's
• 13:14
  going to fall into place. So that's what I recommend.
• 13:17
  I agree. I agree. And every time what I use personally
• 13:23
  is a word, F -O -R -M. That keeps me in line.
• 13:29
  It's family, occupation, recreation, and a message.
• 13:34
  So when I'm talking to Larry, I can bring up
• 13:37
  family. what you do for a living, what you like
• 13:40
  to do, any of the above. And you'll start talking
• 13:45
  about it because when you start talking about
• 13:47
  yourself or things you enjoy besides work, you
• 13:52
  really start talking about it. And then your
• 13:54
  level of trust is going up and that barrier is
• 13:58
  coming down. Know you like you trust you will
• 14:01
  do business with you. So know you, well, of course,
• 14:05
  you're a great guy. Like you, we're going to
• 14:09
  narrow it down just a little bit, all right?
• 14:11
  Know you, like you, and then trust you. That
• 14:13
  trust is such a crucial factor that you have
• 14:17
  to build that trust. And the only way you're
• 14:20
  going to do it is I'm going to have you talk
• 14:21
  about yourself. So that's it. I like that. Okay.
• 14:25
  So how do you balance giving without expecting
• 14:30
  while being strategic in business? Where's the
• 14:34
  sweet spot between generosity and growth? Look,
• 14:40
  there's so many hours a day. I'm in a corporate
• 14:42
  leadership role. So that's my primary focus.
• 14:46
  But I feel that the giving portion of what I
• 14:50
  do each week. It completes me, makes me feel
• 14:54
  good about myself. But sometimes that giving
• 14:56
  is with a prospective client of ours. My staff
• 15:01
  will come to me and ask me to help some of their
• 15:03
  prospective clients. And maybe it's a spouse,
• 15:06
  significant other, a child. It could be a career
• 15:10
  transition. It could be something else. And so
• 15:13
  that's some of that balancing act, right? That's
• 15:16
  tying into the business. And I'm still getting
• 15:19
  to give and help people. So I think when I do
• 15:22
  presentations, my presentations aren't geared
• 15:25
  all towards sales. It's really everything. But
• 15:28
  it's the main theme is building those relationships.
• 15:32
  And so there is a fine balancing act. And so,
• 15:35
  yeah, if I give every day and I don't do my job,
• 15:39
  I have a lot more time to give because I want
• 15:42
  to have my job. But I try to find ways to be
• 15:45
  giving. during that course of each day with what
• 15:50
  I do that may be business related. It may be
• 15:52
  for my staff, for clients, it may be for other
• 15:56
  peers in the company. Don't you rather be known
• 15:59
  as a person who gives than a person who's always
• 16:03
  trying to receive, right? Oh, yeah, totally.
• 16:07
  Absolutely. So that should be first and foremost
• 16:11
  on the person's mind. Say, look, I want to be
• 16:14
  known. I want to be known as a connector. I want
• 16:17
  to be known because that's what I do. Every week
• 16:20
  I have at least two people that I, or two instances
• 16:23
  that I put two people together. This person needs,
• 16:27
  this person needs that. Larry meet Keith, Keith
• 16:29
  meet Larry. He does this, you do this. I feel
• 16:32
  it's a great connection and I back away, right?
• 16:36
  And I let them do it. But I have to, if I do
• 16:38
  that at least twice a week, I know that I am
• 16:43
  connecting and I'm giving. And I don't ask for
• 16:47
  anything in return. So it's just a way that you
• 16:50
  look at things. You're like my twin. Yeah. Okay.
• 16:56
  So tell us about a time when one powerful connection
• 16:59
  changed everything for you and what made that
• 17:03
  connection possible. Really, there's so many.
• 17:09
  I think one powerful connection. We'll see how
• 17:13
  much time we have to talk about this. One powerful
• 17:16
  connection that changed a lot for me was actually
• 17:20
  with an executive I met in transition was a CEO.
• 17:25
  And I met him in a coffee shop. It was actually
• 17:28
  with a gentleman who owned an executive search
• 17:30
  firm. And he said, hey, Larry, meet Mike. And
• 17:34
  he said, Mike is looking for his next CEO role.
• 17:37
  I just met him. And we weren't sitting down with
• 17:39
  him. I just met him in passing. I said, Mike,
• 17:41
  nice to meet you. And I said, Mike, I'd love
• 17:44
  to get together separately to see how I could
• 17:46
  help you. And I know you would do the same thing,
• 17:48
  but not everyone thinks that way. But that's
• 17:50
  the way that I do. Mike and I met a couple of
• 17:52
  weeks later and we had a really good meeting,
• 17:55
  but I didn't know companies looking for a CEO.
• 17:58
  And so I tucked that away because sometimes you
• 18:02
  can't make that connection for someone right
• 18:04
  away. You tuck it away and you think about it.
• 18:07
  It may come up at another time. I had met a founder
• 18:10
  of a company, a CEO of a company. It was like
• 18:13
  $100 million company. And we were talking and
• 18:16
  he said, I have this business issue. And it's
• 18:18
  got in my realm of expertise, but something that
• 18:21
  the CEO, when we got together, this other CEO
• 18:25
  looking for a job, he said something in our meeting.
• 18:28
  And it was a trigger. When I was meeting with
• 18:31
  this founder of this company, I said, you know
• 18:33
  what? I said, John, I'm going to connect you
• 18:35
  with my friend Mike. And I think he could deal
• 18:39
  with this issue with his expertise. I think he's
• 18:42
  going to be able to help you out. And I connected
• 18:45
  them. So they met and they had a really good
• 18:49
  meeting because Mike called me and said, our
• 18:51
  meeting went for six hours. We had a great meeting
• 18:56
  and we ended up going to his company. We looked
• 19:01
  at his books. And next thing I know, Mike was
• 19:04
  hired to be the president of his $100 million
• 19:08
  company. So that gentleman's the CEO. Mike becomes
• 19:12
  the president. Well, Mike became a friend. He
• 19:15
  became a client. And Mike went through some change
• 19:19
  during that process and was going through a divorce.
• 19:25
  And I was helping someone network who was in
• 19:30
  private equity formally. who was in human resources,
• 19:34
  and that person was widowed. Actually, I know
• 19:37
  I put the two of them together to network, and
• 19:40
  I thought there was something there, and those
• 19:42
  two ended up in a relationship. And so Mike has
• 19:47
  continued to be a long -term friend. That was
• 19:50
  transformational for me. I helped someone that
• 19:53
  was in transition. land a job that went from
• 19:57
  running a $10, $15 million company to $100 million
• 20:00
  company that became a $200 million company. And
• 20:03
  that's why he went back into transition. And
• 20:06
  then I connected him into a relationship. Long
• 20:09
  story, Michael, but great story. It really was.
• 20:14
  It was really a great story. What does it mean
• 20:17
  to be indispensable? in today's business world?
• 20:22
  And how does that tie into the way that we build
• 20:25
  and sustain relationships? So this is what I
• 20:30
  believe. You sell someone a product or a service,
• 20:34
  and there are competitors for your product or
• 20:39
  service. And they come to you for the things
• 20:43
  they need related to what you've sold them. That's
• 20:47
  great. But if they come to you for something
• 20:50
  else outside of what you sell and market, and
• 20:54
  they go, Michael, can you help me? My son is
• 20:58
  looking to get into medical school and is having
• 21:02
  trouble getting into this medical school. Could
• 21:04
  you help me out? Because I did help someone advance
• 21:07
  the process where they couldn't get any responsiveness,
• 21:11
  couldn't get into this medical school. So what
• 21:14
  I'm trying to say is if the company in person,
• 21:17
  the decision maker you have made a sale to, only
• 21:20
  calls you, reaches out to you for what you sell
• 21:23
  and market, you're not building a deep relationship.
• 21:26
  You're not becoming indispensable. But if you
• 21:28
  let them know up front, look, you know what?
• 21:30
  If you need anything outside of what I do, I
• 21:34
  want you to think of me as an indispensable relationship
• 21:36
  of yours. So it could be someone's in transition,
• 21:40
  any kind of need. It doesn't have to fall in
• 21:42
  line with what I do. And when you have those
• 21:46
  clients starting to call you and reach out to
• 21:48
  you for other things, you're deepening the relationship
• 21:50
  and you're becoming more indispensable. And so
• 21:54
  when that competing force knocks on the door
• 21:56
  to take the business away and they go, wait a
• 21:59
  minute, I work with Larry Kaufman. He helped
• 22:02
  my wife get a job. He helped my brother get a
• 22:05
  job. He helped us find a home over here. He did
• 22:09
  this. He got us. I couldn't find a good plumber,
• 22:12
  whatever it is. Larry is like my utility, indispensable
• 22:16
  relationship. I don't care what you tell me.
• 22:19
  I'm not leaving Larry and his company. Become
• 22:23
  indispensable. And so indispensable to me is
• 22:26
  you are able to communicate that up front. I
• 22:30
  do that all the time just myself because I'm
• 22:32
  not in a sales role, in a leadership role. But
• 22:36
  the people I network with, I want them to know
• 22:38
  I'm indispensable. How can I be helpful to you
• 22:40
  and those around you? But I do that for my staff
• 22:44
  and team, and they know to come to me. And so
• 22:47
  I help them to become indispensable. You don't
• 22:49
  have to do it alone. You can have the Michaels
• 22:51
  and the Larrys who are connected and connectors
• 22:53
  to help you to become indispensable. Very good.
• 22:58
  Very good. Because I suppose indispensable. You
• 23:03
  can look at it from the other side because those
• 23:06
  people become very loyal to you. And really,
• 23:10
  price point doesn't come into it because you're
• 23:13
  not asking for money. You're not asking for anything.
• 23:15
  You're only giving your time and your expertise
• 23:19
  and knowledge. And why not? Why not come back
• 23:22
  to you and say, hey, Larry, you know what? I
• 23:24
  have this problem. Could you help me? Yes. Either
• 23:29
  you can find somebody to help them or you can
• 23:31
  help them. But the answer to that person would
• 23:34
  be yes. So they always think to come back to
• 23:37
  you. Okay. So a lot of people struggle with networking
• 23:42
  on platforms like LinkedIn. What's one tip from
• 23:46
  LinkedIn Larry that can help people cut through
• 23:50
  the noise and connect with purpose? Look, on
• 23:54
  LinkedIn. The people you're meeting with or want
• 23:57
  to meet with that are second degree to you, but
• 24:00
  the decision maker you'd like to meet with. I
• 24:03
  think it's important to see, do you have any
• 24:05
  shared connections that could be the pathway
• 24:08
  to that person? You never know with your shared
• 24:10
  connections how people know people. And I had
• 24:14
  one that someone on my staff was trying to meet
• 24:16
  an executive. And I saw a lot of connections
• 24:21
  I shared in common with that executive. And so
• 24:24
  I said, let me check with my network and see
• 24:26
  if I can help to arrange an introduction or meeting
• 24:28
  for us with this executive at this big organization.
• 24:32
  I reached out to one person I knew, only one.
• 24:35
  I could have reached out to a lot. I just took
• 24:37
  a stab, reached out to one person. His name is
• 24:40
  Matt. And I said, Matt, how do you know Jeff
• 24:42
  at this company? He said, I'm interested in getting
• 24:46
  introduced. He said, oh, I went to college with
• 24:48
  him. We were roommates. We're friends today.
• 24:52
  We travel as couples. But I'm not going to introduce
• 24:56
  you. I said, what? What's going on? He said,
• 24:59
  I'm going to call him and tell him he has to
• 25:01
  meet with you. How powerful is that, right? So
• 25:05
  I think figuring out who the shared connections
• 25:07
  are. But I also think a lot of people don't come
• 25:10
  prepared to a meeting and look at someone's profile.
• 25:15
  And I'm talking about all aspects of the profile.
• 25:19
  And some profiles are great. like yours, and
• 25:21
  some are not as great. But sometimes there's
• 25:24
  something that seems insignificant, but can be
• 25:27
  significant. So if I looked at someone's profile,
• 25:31
  nothing was there. I didn't have any shared connections.
• 25:34
  But the one thing I saw under the university
• 25:37
  said marching band. Most would ignore that, but
• 25:40
  I would say, Michael, and I know this is not
• 25:43
  on yours, Michael, what instrument did you play
• 25:46
  when you were in the marching band? And you would
• 25:48
  be like, What are you talking about? How did
• 25:51
  you know I was in the marching band? Because
• 25:52
  you probably put that in a long time ago when
• 25:55
  you signed up on LinkedIn, didn't even think
• 25:57
  about it because no one else is asking. But Larry
• 26:00
  asked, and you're never going to forget me. Absolutely.
• 26:04
  Absolutely. And it's those little things that
• 26:08
  you'll never be forgotten, especially with. the
• 26:13
  follow -up. We're not even going to get into
• 26:14
  the follow -up because I feel that the follow
• 26:17
  -up with somebody is more important than actually
• 26:20
  even meeting them. But you do that something
• 26:24
  special, that something so different than everybody
• 26:28
  else, that of course they're going to remember
• 26:30
  you. And the way that you follow up with them,
• 26:33
  you always keep our, you're being top of mind.
• 26:37
  And I hate saying that top of mind, but that's
• 26:39
  the only thing I can think of right now. But
• 26:41
  if you do that one thing, you'll always be remembered
• 26:45
  for that. It's important. Okay. So for someone
• 26:51
  just starting to grow their network, what's better?
• 26:55
  Deepening a few relationships or casting a wide
• 26:59
  net? We've probably covered this already, but
• 27:02
  let's have it. Casting a wide net is fine. For
• 27:09
  myself, look, I have roughly just under 30 ,000
• 27:12
  LinkedIn connections. So people are looking at
• 27:16
  me and Larry's saying, don't cast such a wide
• 27:19
  net, right? I'll tell people, should you have
• 27:22
  10 ,000 connections? I think you should have
• 27:25
  a strong network of people you trust, even on
• 27:29
  a LinkedIn. Depending upon your tenure in the
• 27:31
  business world, maybe it's 500, maybe it's 1
• 27:34
  ,000, maybe it's 2 ,000. I'm not saying you'll
• 27:36
  know 2 ,000. exceptionally well, but enough to
• 27:40
  where they take a call, take a meeting with you.
• 27:43
  I think what you want to have is that know, like,
• 27:45
  trust relationship base. And so I think kind
• 27:49
  of keep it tight. In my book, I call it inner
• 27:52
  circle, outer circle. Your inner circle, yeah,
• 27:55
  they're your family. Sometimes your family really
• 27:58
  should be in your outer circle, but inner circle,
• 28:02
  the people that you really trust that will go
• 28:04
  the distance for you. And those could be people
• 28:07
  that they can be your clients. I have clients
• 28:09
  today that we have with a firm that introduced
• 28:12
  to my staff that were clients of mine in the
• 28:15
  day. They're my inner circle, right? But I do
• 28:19
  have friends and family. So I think keep it tight.
• 28:22
  Keep it tight. You're not going to have 5 ,000
• 28:25
  in your inner circle unless you're just amazing.
• 28:28
  I haven't seen that. It's also a little difficult
• 28:31
  to keep up. Your inner circle you want to communicate
• 28:34
  with a little bit more often, but 5 ,000, 2 ,000,
• 28:39
  even 1 ,000. It's very hard to stay up with that.
• 28:42
  So you really have to be careful on who you think
• 28:45
  is in your inner circle. You're right. But that's
• 28:48
  very good. Okay. How does being a strong networker
• 28:53
  carry over into your personal life with your
• 28:56
  family, friends, and your community? I think
• 28:59
  what happens on when you get to the family side
• 29:03
  and I'm a strong networker connector, I do get
• 29:07
  our friends sending me their kids. And I had
• 29:13
  someone who was looking to get back into the
• 29:16
  dating scene after widowed. And it's like, Hey,
• 29:19
  could you have Larry fix me up? I'm ready. And
• 29:22
  so I, it's good and bad, but it's nice that.
• 29:26
  I become that go -to, that I built that reputation.
• 29:29
  And after I wrote the book, I did go on Facebook,
• 29:33
  now Meta, and I'm connected to friends there.
• 29:36
  And so they know, hey, let's ask Larry. So I
• 29:40
  branded myself in the business world and carried
• 29:43
  it over into my personal world. That's good.
• 29:47
  That's good. And that really, really answers
• 29:49
  it. Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle.
• 29:54
  And if you could leave listeners with one mindset
• 29:58
  shift that would make their networking more meaningful
• 30:01
  and profitable, what would it be? Let's just
• 30:06
  say, okay, mindset shift is don't make it about
• 30:11
  you. Make it about the other person. And I'll
• 30:15
  share that with a question. And it sounds crazy.
• 30:21
  But I've done so many presentations and like
• 30:23
  you'll ask questions and I ask questions. And
• 30:26
  the one takeaway that people have told me quite
• 30:29
  a bit was these five words that they're not asking
• 30:34
  enough of or at all is how can I help you? And
• 30:38
  I can't tell you how many conversations I have
• 30:41
  with people. And I'm like, how can I help you?
• 30:44
  And sometimes I know because I've asked so many
• 30:47
  questions, I already know how I'm going to help
• 30:49
  them. Now it turns out I maybe add an extra word
• 30:52
  to like, how else can I help you? And no, I'm
• 30:56
  good. And I'm almost waiting for it just to see.
• 31:00
  They come back and go, Larry, I'm great. You're
• 31:03
  going to do X, Y, and Z for me. How can I help
• 31:05
  you? I can tell you it's probably one out of
• 31:08
  10 people I'll talk to that will say that. And
• 31:13
  so if I could get more people to think that way
• 31:16
  and just ask the question. And some people are
• 31:20
  like, I don't know how I could help people. I
• 31:21
  don't have a big network. You know what? It's
• 31:23
  just throwing it out there. Asking that question
• 31:27
  is more than enough that just people will say
• 31:30
  it. Everyone wants to take you up on it. It's
• 31:33
  rare. And if someone does say something, you
• 31:36
  can try. It's rare that people ask, but I would
• 31:40
  love to see more people ask, how can I help you?
• 31:44
  Every day. That's great. And if people would
• 31:48
  actually learn to do that, again, that's giving,
• 31:51
  not receiving. And if you can, one, I'll leave
• 31:56
  you with this. One thing that I say to a person,
• 31:59
  whenever I network with him or with a person
• 32:03
  or a few people, I always end with, how can I
• 32:07
  make you more successful? How can I make a difference?
• 32:13
  How can I be a great referral source for you?
• 32:17
  And I usually say that before I even tell them
• 32:22
  what I do. And they're usually so blown away
• 32:25
  by it. They're like, I don't even know what you
• 32:27
  do yet. That's right. Just let me know. And then
• 32:31
  I'll go into the whole thing with the business
• 32:33
  cards and everything and writing on the back
• 32:35
  of the business card what to do and everything
• 32:37
  else. But I always let them know I am here for
• 32:40
  you. So what can I do to help you? I love it.
• 32:46
  Larry, this has been absolutely great. Just the
• 32:49
  way I thought it was going to go. I just wish
• 32:51
  we had another hour because I have another 20
• 32:55
  questions to ask you. But if anybody would like
• 32:58
  to get hold of you, either to be coached or to
• 33:02
  just to speak with you and get your feelings
• 33:04
  or philosophy on networking, how could they do
• 33:07
  it? So definitely on LinkedIn. So Larry Kaufman
• 33:11
  in Chicago, all caps. So you can find me there.
• 33:16
  I would say check me out on Amazon with the NCG
• 33:19
  Factor. That's a way to get to know me. And guess
• 33:21
  what? I know it sounds crazy, but in my book,
• 33:24
  I put my contact information. So I know I get
• 33:29
  a lot of crazy people coming after me, but hopefully
• 33:32
  some normal people will come after me too. Hopefully,
• 33:35
  hopefully. Larry, I can't begin to thank you
• 33:37
  enough for coming on my podcast. I think you
• 33:40
  are a wealth of knowledge, and I'm so glad to
• 33:44
  see there's somebody else out there, such as
• 33:46
  myself, that believes in your NCJ. Thank you
• 33:51
  very much. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having
• 33:53
  me on your podcast, Michael, and nice to meet
• 33:55
  someone that thinks the way that I do. Well.
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  learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. That's R
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  -E -V -V -E -D -U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. A huge
• 35:11
  thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible
• 35:13
  insights today. And of course, a big shout out
• 35:17
  to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
• 35:20
  and spending your time with us. If you're interested
• 35:23
  in my digital courses, being coached, or having
• 35:26
  me come and talk to your company, just go to
• 35:29
  Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
• 35:33
  networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
• 35:36
  being present. So take what you've learned today,
• 35:39
  get out there, and make some meaningful connections.
• 35:43
  If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't
• 35:46
  forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share
• 35:49
  it with someone who could use a little networking
• 35:51
  inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going.
• 35:55
  You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube,
• 35:59
  or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.