Latest / The Retail Podcast / Asia’s Five-Element Edge • Australia’s IT Surge • 8-Minute Delivery • Meta’s AI Ad Rules • The Hybrid Consumer

Transcript

Asia’s Five-Element Edge • Australia’s IT Surge • 8-Minute Delivery • Meta’s AI Ad Rules • The Hybrid Consumer · The Retail Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to Five Things Friday and you will be listening
• 0:03
  to this on a Friday hopefully or a Monday or Saturday and Sunday.
• 0:07
  That's all good. I am happy because we are all in
• 0:10
  the same place virtually that is and my lovely Co hosts are with
• 0:14
  me. So why don't we just do a quick
• 0:16
  round table to introduce ourselves and then we'll dive
• 0:18
  straight into the Five Things Friday.
• 0:22
  Let's go, Laura. Hi, I'm Laura, Scottish living
• 0:26
  in Sydney and I am a technology advisor to some of the biggest
• 0:31
  brands in this part of the world.
• 0:33
  Thank you, Laura. Hi.
• 0:35
  I'm Ruth Quell. You've seen me before.
• 0:37
  I am the MD of NRF Retails Big Show Asia Pacific.
• 0:41
  I normally don't look like this. This is the week after a show,
• 0:44
  so I've just dressed down a bit. I hope you can accommodate me,
• 0:47
  but it's a podcast, so hopefully you're not listening and looking
• 0:49
  at me. Yeah, you're you're, you're
• 0:51
  normally it's on a mobile phone, so don't worry, there's that
• 0:54
  little thumbnail of an image. The smaller image of me the
• 0:57
  better I would say. I forgot to ask, what CC is your
• 1:01
  bike? Which one?
• 1:03
  I have two. I have a Ducati Monster 800 and
• 1:06
  I have a Ducati Desert X. It's a 900.
• 1:08
  So yeah, yeah, it's 900. That's that's that's a good
• 1:11
  number. Yeah, there's something about
• 1:12
  these Australian men. They love their power, whatever
• 1:16
  it is. But we did sort.
• 1:17
  Cars probably, we probably they're a Dick Caddy so they
• 1:22
  can't be classed as bogan toys, but they're you know, they're
• 1:24
  OK. Laura, do you have?
• 1:25
  A power vehicle of any description.
• 1:28
  No, no, I'm very confident in my own skin.
• 1:31
  Don't need. That oh in addition.
• 1:32
  We are. And we are so that's so good.
• 1:36
  I I, I, I'm OK. I have something.
• 1:37
  You'd be law with that. Let me.
• 1:39
  Introduce the first topic. So one of the things I want to
• 1:42
  share is what what I feel sets Chinese or retailers in Asia
• 1:50
  apart or why they are so far ahead.
• 1:53
  So many times we think that they're ahead because of
• 1:56
  technology. And I think last year when I had
• 2:00
  my mission out there for a couple of clients that we took
• 2:02
  out there, I tried to bring back and sort of re emphasise the
• 2:07
  point that it's not just technology.
• 2:09
  Technology is taken care of by two or three major players out
• 2:13
  there. So there are platform players
• 2:15
  that are enabling retailers, but there are these core elements.
• 2:18
  And at the time I couldn't sort of sorry, I went through my own
• 2:21
  version of this, but this is the Shanghai commerce for foreign
• 2:27
  companies coming to do business in Shanghai's sort of how do you
• 2:31
  attract and work with Gen Z in the region.
• 2:35
  And the reason why I think this is just phenomenal is these are
• 2:40
  the five elements of the future of retail.
• 2:44
  And I'll and I'll go through them one by one really quickly
• 2:46
  and then we'll, we'll quickly go on to the the next one.
• 2:49
  Emotional value, how you are connecting is a bit of a no
• 2:53
  brainer. Also, of course, you want to
• 2:55
  create emotion, whether this advertising customer journey,
• 2:58
  but how do you create emotion in the store?
• 3:01
  And I think I've said this before, say again, one of the
• 3:04
  ways that they were creating emotion in the store is by
• 3:06
  treating you like family, therefore giving you a space to
• 3:10
  hang out, whether that's a coffee or a drink or or some
• 3:14
  form of experience that allows you to sort of dwell without
• 3:19
  purchase. Second one, community identity.
• 3:22
  So it's all related to the first one niche interest, whether it's
• 3:26
  sustainability, whether it's sports, outdoors, fashion,
• 3:31
  beauty, any subcategory of retail in Shanghai, retailers
• 3:38
  are providing those niche micro connections that allow you to
• 3:42
  connect with the brand in a deeper and more meaningful way.
• 3:45
  Again, you can see this sort of layering on one layers on top of
• 3:48
  the the other and a, a sort of A1 that takes it outside of just
• 3:54
  purchasing. Are these things called
• 3:56
  nighttime escapes. So how do you then take your
• 4:00
  brand into the world, right? Your, your physical store,
• 4:05
  fantastic. It's your real estate, your
• 4:07
  e-commerce store, your digital space.
• 4:10
  But how do those two things come together to create an experience
• 4:15
  outside of operating hours? And there's a couple of
• 4:18
  actually, I think there's one example here that I'll get to
• 4:20
  and we can talk to immersive art.
• 4:23
  We've seen countless, if you've not seen gentle monster, who
• 4:28
  have won countless awards for the best in store experiences.
• 4:33
  Originally they started off with these sorts of monsters that
• 4:36
  were robots that were animated in store that people would, you
• 4:41
  know, it's the Instagrammable shop.
• 4:43
  It is the pinnacle Instagrammable shop.
• 4:46
  But what is now emerging is yes. And again, this goes back to
• 4:52
  actually Doug Stevens talked about this in term, I don't
• 4:55
  know, seven years ago when he was saying retailers must stop
• 4:59
  using this sort of old world of return on square footage.
• 5:03
  It's return on experience. That store may lose money.
• 5:07
  And you know, in Shanghai, the gentle monster store, I'm pretty
• 5:10
  sure the return on investment on square footage doesn't pay off,
• 5:16
  but return on investment when you look at marketing money that
• 5:19
  they're saving by creating these Instagram moments in store is
• 5:23
  phenomenal. And then the ultimate smart
• 5:26
  health choices. How do you bring well-being this
• 5:29
  new generation? And this is all about Gen Z and
• 5:32
  how you connect with Gen Z are absolutely tuned into alcohol
• 5:37
  free parties, looking after yourself, all of the elements
• 5:41
  that go round with that and what that looks like, whether it's
• 5:44
  sport, whether it's food, whether it's clothing, whether
• 5:47
  it's your impact, your footprint that you're having.
• 5:50
  How do retailers bring that into this?
• 5:52
  And again, this is Shanghai and I and I and I feel that if you
• 5:56
  put all of these five things together, this is the epitome of
• 6:00
  what brilliant retail looks like right now in the environment.
• 6:04
  And to give you sort of, you know, some examples they've got
• 6:07
  here is the pop up, the Hirono and, and again, when I was there
• 6:11
  last year and again in Europe, we're seeing an explosion of
• 6:16
  luxury pop ups. And, and you know why?
• 6:20
  Because luxury has to stand out. If you know, an LVMH bag looks
• 6:24
  the same as an Hermes bag that looks the same as a, a Burberry
• 6:28
  bag, the experience will not be the same.
• 6:32
  And it's that emotional connection that luxury is
• 6:34
  definitely going for. But this is not, and I again
• 6:37
  have spoken this as spoken about this before, we see this at
• 6:41
  value retail, you know, lefties in Spain similar to Primark
• 6:47
  going above and beyond and creating a pop up that is 100%
• 6:52
  could be the same as a a luxury experience pop up.
• 6:56
  So anyway, that's my first one. Hope it helps.
• 6:59
  Reef will be over to you next. I will.
• 7:01
  Sorry, Laura. I might add, can I just add a
• 7:03
  little bit on to that to Gen Z because what we've, what we've
• 7:05
  seen was one, it was a big topic for NRF as well this year in
• 7:09
  AIPAC. And one of the things we saw is
• 7:12
  this generation, because they're so connected from a shopping
• 7:16
  point of view, from a political point of view, they almost
• 7:20
  research digitally to avoid a bit of buyer's remorse.
• 7:23
  You know, So in terms of you look at the transformation
• 7:26
  happening in political landscapes, you look at, you
• 7:29
  look at when their, their brand, it's really eroding brand
• 7:33
  loyalty a lot for this this generation because they, they
• 7:36
  feel this obligation to research because the information's so
• 7:40
  readily accessible and because it's so readily accessible, you
• 7:44
  know, that fuels this desire. So, you know, we see niche
• 7:47
  brands popping up really quickly because they, they have the
• 7:51
  ability to find their way into people's feeds and do a really
• 7:55
  good job. And I think to me, when you're
• 7:58
  talking about this generation, the ability to, you know,
• 8:01
  research before purchase and because they're just so good at
• 8:05
  it, yeah, you don't present yourself in a way that is
• 8:08
  researchable, right, In terms of the brand or product, then you
• 8:11
  find, you know, that you that you miss out.
• 8:14
  And that might be in the US. Basically, you know, you're
• 8:18
  doing your research online and you're going to store to fulfil
• 8:21
  or to get test touch, feel. And then it just leads into such
• 8:26
  a horrible experience because you can't do the same things
• 8:30
  that you can online. And again, I think these are
• 8:33
  some of the small gotchas for, for retailers that predominantly
• 8:37
  you think, of course, everything that we have online, you can
• 8:40
  come and touch and feel in store.
• 8:42
  And so many times that's not the case.
• 8:44
  And I think, and I think to the point this generation care maybe
• 8:48
  maybe the older generation, you know, they, they understand that
• 8:50
  this generation really. Cares, but we're brand loyal
• 8:53
  we're brand loyal you know we're we stick we find a brand or a
• 8:56
  political party or and stick with them.
• 8:58
  These guys don't yeah you know they're they're they're thirst
• 9:01
  for information and make decisions and change.
• 9:05
  Preference is nothing like we are.
• 9:08
  That's the thing, I think. Yeah, and, and the community
• 9:11
  identity, which was #2 on the list that I shared, you know,
• 9:14
  niche interests, how they, they go into like obviously in a, in
• 9:18
  a bigger scale, you know, I, I love motorbikes or I love cars,
• 9:21
  but more specifically themes such as sustainability or sports
• 9:26
  or health or 0 alcohol. Again, things that would never
• 9:29
  be considered in other generations.
• 9:32
  This generation are leading with which is phenomenal.
• 9:35
  Yeah, it's incredible, Laura. Lots I could say, but I'll I
• 9:38
  think you guys said it really quite well.
• 9:40
  I love that point about it's about the loyalty and the
• 9:42
  transparency. The loyalty for new customers is
• 9:46
  different, but on point number, I guess #2 I'll take #2 it might
• 9:51
  not sound that sexy or exciting, but what I'm definitely seeing
• 9:54
  in this part of the world is I felt the last three to six
• 9:58
  months we've kind of had like a sabbatical.
• 10:00
  Nobody's been buying tech. There's been no big projects
• 10:03
  kicking off. Everything's went a bit quiet,
• 10:05
  especially from everyone I'm speaking to.
• 10:07
  And I feel that's kind of turned a corner.
• 10:10
  It might be driven by we're coming to the end of this
• 10:12
  financial year and with everyone firming up their budgets for the
• 10:16
  next financial year, it starts in the 1st of July.
• 10:19
  I think that's definitely a play into it.
• 10:22
  But what I'm hearing is a lot of these projects have maybe been
• 10:25
  put on hold, are starting to get the green light, get signed off
• 10:29
  some technology pieces. Some people are signing up with
• 10:31
  some of the bigger platforms and we're starting to get a wee bit
• 10:35
  of momentum. And I think this is it's a
• 10:37
  really interesting one as everyone starts to talk AI do
• 10:40
  less with more, especially this part of the world, Alex, we can
• 10:44
  I get sometimes forgotten and it it's just a reminder of some of
• 10:48
  these bigger texts. It's known the behaviours in
• 10:52
  this part of the world, and Asia's a bit different as well.
• 10:54
  But Australia, New Zealand, it's known how they know about.
• 10:58
  They're thinking about buying tech is probably something I
• 11:02
  feel is more critical than ever that we start to kind of almost
• 11:07
  educate other vendors, whatever they are in the world about
• 11:10
  South. And I don't know, Reef, I know
• 11:12
  that from your show, you might have seen a little bit of this
• 11:15
  happen, like, yeah. Yeah, I think it's been, I think
• 11:17
  there's, we've had a little bit of obviously global geopolitics
• 11:20
  has happened as we all we're all familiar with.
• 11:22
  We don't need to dwell on that. But I think, I think to your
• 11:26
  point, Laura, I think what's what that the point you're
• 11:29
  making. I think as things have calmed
• 11:30
  and new financial years on the horizon, the projects are
• 11:33
  surfacing. And I think for the big US
• 11:37
  exhibitors, we saw a few of them pull back a lot and very late
• 11:41
  before the show. And for us that's, you know,
• 11:45
  there's this view that Asia Pacific is homogeneous and it's
• 11:49
  definitely not Australia and New Zealand is not Singapore, which
• 11:52
  is not China. They are very, very different.
• 11:55
  And for me, as the markets started to come and new
• 11:59
  financial users around the corner, I think you're right.
• 12:02
  I think we're going to see a lot more big projects get signed
• 12:05
  off. And those companies that have
• 12:07
  pulled back will probably at their own peril because I think
• 12:11
  you're right, I think the markets now got comfortable with
• 12:15
  a little bit of uncertainty. And also you can see setting
• 12:19
  budgets, which means that they're setting proper budgets
• 12:22
  for projects in the new financial year or in the back
• 12:25
  half of this year. And I think that we're going to
• 12:27
  see a lot of development going forward.
• 12:29
  Yeah. Yeah, I think look, it's for me,
• 12:32
  it's the disrupt will be disrupted.
• 12:34
  It's always been the case when in in the times of hardship, in
• 12:39
  the times of economic slowdown, so many businesses, not just
• 12:43
  retailers, make the mistake of retrenching and then realising
• 12:47
  that they've lost a couple of points to market share or they
• 12:50
  have to double invest to catch up because everyone else kept
• 12:53
  going. And I think the China market's
• 12:55
  not, not going to not going to stop.
• 12:58
  It may cool down or it may slow down, but it won't stop pushing.
• 13:01
  Ahead and it'll be a redirection of their supply.
• 13:05
  So we won't see the supply going to North America, but it's going
• 13:07
  to go everywhere else. And you know, and we're going to
• 13:11
  for the way, you know, we're the way that's that's playing out,
• 13:14
  we're going to see a lot of Chinese goods all over the rest
• 13:17
  of the world and there's plenty of market to sell to for the
• 13:19
  Chinese. So I don't think that's going to
• 13:22
  be a problem. It's just a redirection of
• 13:23
  supply. Yeah, Rick, what's your?
• 13:25
  What's your? Give us one of your.
• 13:26
  Ones, I think for me that what the one thing that really popped
• 13:30
  at this year's show is really about the delivery revolution.
• 13:35
  And I've talked about this before and I think it's just
• 13:37
  mind blowing. So when Apple launched a new
• 13:40
  iPhone, I think iPhone 14 in, in in the major cities in India,
• 13:45
  from ordering online to a rival on person's desk in their office
• 13:48
  was 8 minutes. So it's called quick commerce,
• 13:51
  right. So this works in in high density
• 13:53
  cities where you've got a lot of distribution points and cheap
• 13:58
  labour. Yeah, yeah.
• 14:00
  But what through this journey now everything in e-commerce in
• 14:06
  an urban area in India, the more most dominant form of delivery
• 14:10
  is quick commerce. And that means delivery within
• 14:13
  10 to 15 minutes from order. And the thing that's coming out
• 14:17
  of that, which is really important, is that this is not a
• 14:21
  free service. This is paid for by the
• 14:23
  consumer. So the retailer is making money
• 14:26
  not only on the good they're selling, but also on the
• 14:29
  fulfilment, on the delivery of the products, right?
• 14:32
  Because people are paying for the service.
• 14:35
  We had big baskets speak in, in, in Singapore last week and they
• 14:39
  are a grocer, right? And they have on their app.
• 14:43
  And the thing that one of the things they have on the app that
• 14:45
  has massive impact is for every item on the on the app, it is
• 14:49
  delivery time, whether it's a piece of broccoli or, you know,
• 14:53
  or, you know, a frying pan, you know, in a in a grocery Mart, in
• 14:56
  a grocery shopping context. So it's, you know, powerful
• 14:58
  stuff. And I think that that's we've
• 15:01
  taken that from India. So how does that manifest in
• 15:04
  other markets? You know, how do we see that
• 15:06
  playing out? You know, a market like
• 15:08
  Australia, which is not a lot of people in a big expanse of land,
• 15:13
  how does that play out? What are people prepared to pay
• 15:15
  for? Yeah.
• 15:17
  Then you look at somewhere like, you know, the Philippines, which
• 15:21
  is, you know, I think maybe 1700 islands.
• 15:25
  So it's planes, trains and automobiles to get goods to
• 15:27
  people. You know, it's different again.
• 15:29
  So how does this, how does this play out?
• 15:32
  Because people are now going, well, I'm, I'm prepared to pay
• 15:35
  to have that item in my hand in 30 minutes.
• 15:37
  You know, we're talking about one of the things that went just
• 15:40
  mind blowing was I could go online, I could buy a fridge, I
• 15:45
  could do the finance to get it approved and have it plumbed
• 15:47
  into my kitchen in 90 minutes. People are paying for that.
• 15:51
  That's yeah, it's not, they're not paying, they're not paying
• 15:54
  more for the good. They're paying for the service
• 15:55
  of having that delivered in 3090 minutes and done.
• 15:58
  Yeah, I remember interviewing. I'm sorry.
• 16:01
  Go on. Yeah, sorry.
• 16:02
  There you go, You go. Yes, I remember interviewing
• 16:05
  someone from Deliveroo and in the UKI was saying, is there a
• 16:09
  need to go beyond 30 minutes, you know, like quick commerce to
• 16:13
  get to 15 minutes? And is that a focus for them?
• 16:17
  And you know, I think it's culturally probably not in the
• 16:20
  UK, but interestingly enough, everywhere else and Middle East,
• 16:25
  India, China and and other regions, they're 100% pushing
• 16:30
  forward to, you know, 15 minutes or instant, instant. 100% and
• 16:35
  even and the key points to take away from this is 1, there's a
• 16:38
  perception pace. So if you say that the broccoli
• 16:41
  can arrive in 9 minutes, that makes it more attractive to the
• 16:45
  consumer rather than 70, right? Yeah.
• 16:48
  And the second thing is that you're not changing your
• 16:51
  business model. The consumer is prepared to pay.
• 16:54
  Yeah. So rather than thinking I'm
• 16:56
  going to have to wear this cost to compete, no, it's not that.
• 17:00
  It's the consumer saying I could run my existing business model,
• 17:03
  I can evolve my fulfilment engine, if you will.
• 17:07
  Yeah, paid for service. I got you.
• 17:09
  That's Laura. I you know what, even on like
• 17:12
  when you're talking there, it's, it's interesting because I think
• 17:15
  like, like you said, in some cities and dense populated, they
• 17:18
  want it now that in the office they want it, but it kind of
• 17:21
  leads back to this whole thing around it's a bit choice, right?
• 17:25
  And it's about whether like when I look on Amazon the UK by I
• 17:30
  want to look at what I want to philtre by who gives it gift
• 17:34
  wrapped. So it's all about making the
• 17:37
  decisions that work for you. So I think I'm really
• 17:40
  interesting to see how AAI starts to personalise more
• 17:43
  because you know, if I want it in an hour, what gives me in an
• 17:46
  hour? What can I get in an hour?
• 17:48
  So it's really a bit curating things depending on people's
• 17:51
  individual needs. So the delivery time is one
• 17:54
  piece, but if you think about it, it can be so much more
• 17:58
  right? Who get you?
• 17:58
  Could add so many more dimensions, so many more
• 18:01
  dimensions to the product. And then, and then for me, we're
• 18:04
  in a in a marketplace where retailers are struggling to make
• 18:06
  money by selling goods. These could be other mechanisms
• 18:09
  by which they augment their margins.
• 18:13
  Right #4 For me, I was actually talking to one of my good
• 18:17
  friends, her name is Sam Law, she's a digital marketer and
• 18:20
  what? But you know, but she we were
• 18:22
  talking about Meta. So something that I think is
• 18:26
  super interesting is that meta are rolling out three new tools.
• 18:30
  One is called value optimization, then the other one
• 18:33
  is incremental attribution, and then the other one is value
• 18:37
  rules. And basically in a nutshell,
• 18:41
  it's you're going to have the ability to set some rules and it
• 18:45
  could be like your conversion rate what it is from a row as
• 18:48
  perspective to meta. And then you're allowing meta to
• 18:53
  do the creative to just get you the return for it's, it's an
• 18:58
  interesting concept. It's really driven by AI, of
• 19:01
  course. And it's, I think a lot of
• 19:04
  people who are starting to read up on it.
• 19:06
  I don't think it's talked about as much, but it's interesting
• 19:09
  because we don't know what this will mean, right?
• 19:11
  Like are we going to say, for example, the brand discovery is
• 19:15
  really changing and this and how how are things going to surface,
• 19:19
  right? Like if you're putting one key
• 19:21
  event, if you're setting the rules and then you're allowing
• 19:24
  the platform to decide how they display it?
• 19:27
  What we going to have click frenzy after payday?
• 19:29
  Are we going to have banners on them?
• 19:31
  Are we not? How do you keep that brand
• 19:33
  identity that a lot of retailers have actually took a lot of like
• 19:37
  they've thought that's been such something really important that
• 19:40
  they kind of curtail and keep for themselves that now with
• 19:45
  these rules, this AI rules is gone.
• 19:47
  It's going to make it a lot more generic.
• 19:49
  Yes. So I'm really interested to see
• 19:51
  how that plays out. It kind of also leads into this
• 19:55
  whole piece about, you know, guys, I've came from agency.
• 19:58
  I kind of constantly I'm looking at what does this mean for a lot
• 20:02
  of the partners that we work with?
• 20:03
  You know, I definitely believe that agencies and strategic
• 20:07
  partnerships is critical. But I also see a lot of the
• 20:11
  things that you've maybe relied on these agency partners for,
• 20:14
  you start to question, is it no time to start taking some of
• 20:19
  these things back in house? So yeah, so the meta piece that
• 20:24
  AI tools and how you can literally just ask for a
• 20:28
  conversion rate of 3% and let them decide who, what and where
• 20:32
  as it's pretty cool but also a little bit scary.
• 20:37
  Yeah, I think, I think the tension, the tension there
• 20:39
  really though is attribution, right.
• 20:41
  And that and then if you think about, you know, in this
• 20:44
  environment, if you're if you say it's almost taking everyone
• 20:49
  retailer to a commodity moment where the AI just optimises it
• 20:52
  with an inch of its life creatively channel time, the
• 20:55
  whole lot audience. And I think from the tension.
• 20:59
  And then for the agency, Laura, is that they agency moves,
• 21:04
  continues to move away from that commodity space, you know, and,
• 21:07
  you know, I think if we're all being optimised to into our
• 21:11
  life, how does a brand become a brand that stands out because
• 21:14
  everyone is not Teflon? Yeah.
• 21:16
  What the agency's job, I reckon in many cases in the future is
• 21:20
  going to be helping the consumer stop and pause.
• 21:23
  How does it how does it make the brand a bit grippy rather than
• 21:26
  making it so easy? Yeah, it's in the journey.
• 21:30
  Well, reef, you know as well and Alex as well, like from where
• 21:33
  you're at in the world and where we're at.
• 21:34
  The one thing as well is like you think about the likes of
• 21:37
  Sheen and Tina who don't seem to have a problem with supply.
• 21:41
  Sometimes you look at these rules and you go, Oh my God,
• 21:44
  we're just feeding the beast right.
• 21:46
  Like like it almost as I guess it always has been.
• 21:50
  Whoever has got the budget to keep spending if they're getting
• 21:53
  the run well wet. So it's, I do kind of always
• 21:58
  think back to like Sheen with the rules with America.
• 22:00
  What does that mean? They're going to be investing
• 22:02
  more in markets are buying from them and I mean 1.2 billion in
• 22:07
  sales last year in Australia. Yeah.
• 22:09
  So we're going to see more more if Sheen hit the market.
• 22:13
  And if Sheen and team who aren't going into the States, they're
• 22:15
  going to have even more supply for Australia, which means based
• 22:18
  if they're building at a robust model and with unlimited supply
• 22:22
  for the Australian market, you know, how much more money can
• 22:25
  they spend in advertising? Yeah, I think the interesting
• 22:27
  thing is that how long before they go into physical stores,
• 22:31
  you know, because they've done pop ups.
• 22:32
  They're they're sort of they've done pop ups in different cities
• 22:36
  around the world and they've also got designed like Sheeny's
• 22:39
  got different designers in different parts of the world.
• 22:42
  I did it. I did an event with one of their
• 22:44
  designers in Chicago and it was so obvious I could how long
• 22:48
  before this model then starts taking the on the indetexes, the
• 22:53
  mangoes that the gaps of this world, you know, upscale the
• 22:57
  quality of the product, go into physical and then beat on price.
• 23:02
  But reef, what's your? I think, I think mine's for
• 23:04
  building from laws. Actually, my topic is really
• 23:07
  around and I was a good friend of mine at Microsoft, Mr Damian
• 23:10
  Villeroi, who leads Microsoft, the region.
• 23:13
  He was very passionate about this.
• 23:14
  And when I dug into it a bit deeper, it sort of linked it
• 23:17
  ladders up to the some of the stuff that Laura's talking about
• 23:19
  with, with with Meta, it very much links to the Gen Z consumer
• 23:23
  or Gen Z consumer and that's the hybrid consumer and this
• 23:27
  consumer for the first time, I think retailers are it's really
• 23:30
  hitting home that that, that they need to stop worrying about
• 23:34
  discrete channels. And I'll give you an example,
• 23:38
  back in the day I worked and launched a major banks Internet
• 23:41
  banking in Australia. And we launched the Internet
• 23:44
  website and the bank had always been prescriptive.
• 23:47
  If you've got this home loan, you have this credit card and
• 23:49
  you've got this deposit account like, and all of a sudden the
• 23:51
  Internet democratised the product suite, which meant the
• 23:55
  consumer bought the products they wanted to buy.
• 23:57
  And the guys in the bank and the product guys are going, they're
• 23:59
  just brains are exploding because they couldn't understand
• 24:03
  why they were. Consumers are grouping products
• 24:06
  together because they went appropriate as they saw the
• 24:09
  world, but the consumer saw things differently.
• 24:11
  And I think that we're seeing that now in channel.
• 24:14
  And what I mean by that is, is that, you know, a consumer now
• 24:19
  and a retailer now has to look at the world out and not through
• 24:22
  discrete channels anymore. The consumer really, and Gen Z
• 24:26
  particularly, really walk into a store and want the experience
• 24:29
  wrapped. You know, how am I recognised,
• 24:33
  how am I acknowledged, How is the product that I want
• 24:36
  presented to me? Because you know about me, you
• 24:39
  know, all those things and that can't be done just only in
• 24:43
  physical and it can't be done only in digital.
• 24:46
  And that piece is really challenging.
• 24:49
  And the AI piece takes us towards this Teflon approach,
• 24:52
  right? But then it's about the tension
• 24:54
  back to the agency piece about how do I at one point in the
• 24:57
  journey make the consumer pause and enjoy a little brand
• 25:00
  experience along the way? You know, so this hybrid
• 25:03
  consumer is, is really probably even they probably even forget
• 25:08
  where the transaction's occurring that there's a there's
• 25:11
  not yeah, there's this this sense that that, you know, they
• 25:14
  would, they'll they'll journey through the journey.
• 25:16
  And and so therefore, if we're talking about Facebook's
• 25:19
  modelling and or Meta Meta's modelling and running AI through
• 25:22
  the whole thing in the dynamic creative, you know, is that
• 25:26
  being done discreetly for a digital channel?
• 25:28
  Are we addressing the hybrid consumer through this process?
• 25:31
  You know, because you're phones with you all the time and Meta's
• 25:33
  channels, the is the mobile right.
• 25:36
  So he's Meta's advertising in Geo tone.
• 25:39
  So when I'm in a Maya or when I'm in a, you know, where I'm in
• 25:42
  a fair price in Singapore or whether I'm in a Family Mart in
• 25:45
  Tokyo, like is, is that being recognised because they're all
• 25:49
  big meta markets, right? And is that all linking
• 25:51
  together? You know, how, how, how is the
• 25:54
  AI learning through that process?
• 25:55
  Because this consumer now is is not locked to a channel.
• 25:59
  If not locked to and that they are, there are a lot 2 of the
• 26:02
  outcome they're looking to achieve.
• 26:03
  Yeah, Yeah, it's so a thing as well.
• 26:06
  And I know that Alex. Well, the three of us were at
• 26:08
  shop talk in Vegas, but one of the biggest things it was about
• 26:12
  the the typical funnel is, is it's completely it's gone the
• 26:18
  the the funnel of our shop is gone.
• 26:20
  People are coming in whatever way they want and that's just
• 26:23
  how it has has to be now. So the attribution is, we still
• 26:28
  don't really have a great way to measure attribution, but I do
• 26:31
  think we're getting a little bit more sophisticated with with how
• 26:34
  we get there. But yeah, the the funnel is is
• 26:37
  broken, yeah. Yeah, sorry, Alex.
• 26:40
  If you look at categories like, yeah, so spend some time with
• 26:44
  LLVMH in the lead up for the show with a couple of their
• 26:47
  brands and they're still so invested in physical retail, but
• 26:51
  the way they're wrapping those experiences is unique to the
• 26:54
  category. You know, if you're, I mean, I
• 26:57
  went to the the launch of Live A, which is the Spanish handbag
• 27:01
  brand that's owned by LVMH in Sydney.
• 27:04
  They have their marquee store in Pick St in Westfield and it's
• 27:09
  really cool, really neat experience.
• 27:11
  I mean, I'm not into not into the handbag so much, but the lot
• 27:14
  of the jackets were nice. But I'm a bit old for it, I
• 27:16
  think. But the point is that, you know,
• 27:18
  the experience was magical, right?
• 27:21
  So, but but they're still wrapping the whole thing.
• 27:23
  You know, the LV match has got to play in blockchain.
• 27:26
  They've got to play in all these digital things that are wrapping
• 27:28
  around it. So they know how they're
• 27:30
  augmenting, you know, they know how they're the experience.
• 27:34
  So the the big trend that's sort of emerging here is the pop up
• 27:39
  and from luxury and the experience wars that are
• 27:43
  happening right now is because, yeah, that handbag, that jacket
• 27:48
  that is costing you that is, that is expensive and is premium
• 27:53
  can now be copied. But what cannot be copied is the
• 27:57
  experience. So what you're highlighting
• 28:00
  there Reef is a trend that luxury companies are moving
• 28:04
  towards in creating pop up experiences that provide this
• 28:08
  premiumisation of experience that then connects you with that
• 28:12
  brand to make you feel, you know what, man, that that felt really
• 28:16
  special, you know, and that's like, you know, you go to the
• 28:20
  airport and, and you in the, in the premium lounge, you've got
• 28:24
  an LVMHA Louis Vuitton Cafe and it and really blew my mind that
• 28:28
  there were so many of these little sort of premium brands
• 28:32
  with gastronomic experiences. And that's in this world,
• 28:38
  specifically in Asia, if technology can do so much more
• 28:43
  or replicas or coffees or Me too's experience then becomes
• 28:48
  the true frontier of of retail and.
• 28:52
  Laura, so go. But you know, Alex, even what
• 28:54
  you said, right, luxury definitely leads the way right
• 28:57
  with us. But when we think even locally,
• 29:00
  culture kings, Simon Beard has been taught him a bit.
• 29:03
  He's been doing this for 15 years.
• 29:06
  Like he's been all about. He's got like in one of his shop
• 29:09
  stores, he's got the Barber shop, then he's got another
• 29:13
  store, they've got the basketball and he he was begging
• 29:17
  and celebrities, even Sheen, Sheen, that is, you could call
• 29:21
  it cheap tat, right? Like, I mean, hopefully I need
• 29:24
  the can I get sued for saying that?
• 29:25
  And yeah, but there when you shop on their site, it doesn't
• 29:31
  matter what you see. There's a lot of people shopping
• 29:32
  on it. It's an experience.
• 29:34
  So, so luxury lead the way and they do it.
• 29:37
  I guess they've they've got the biggest budgets and more people
• 29:40
  around them. But I think that's experiential
• 29:43
  and what we're seeing even that relating back, Alex, to your
• 29:46
  point about that, the generation generation said, yeah, it's it's
• 29:52
  not just like sustainability and values, it's transparency, it's
• 29:56
  experience and all the different levels of the shopping tier.
• 30:01
  So yeah, I'm definitely seeing luxury leads, but I just think
• 30:05
  every single retailer has to have some kind of form of
• 30:08
  experience, whether they're selling $10 T-shirts or, you
• 30:12
  know, $10,000 handbags. That's the bit and that's sorry.
• 30:16
  That was the bit that I was going to say.
• 30:18
  The bit that I was going to say is that that's the bit that the
• 30:21
  agency has a role and that's the bit that we create pause with
• 30:23
  the brand and moments with the brand.
• 30:25
  You know, that's the Louis Vuitton store in the Doha
• 30:29
  airport with the little accent on the coffee or whatever it is,
• 30:33
  you know, which is just so Louis Vuitton.
• 30:36
  That's the magical moment. Whereas we're talking about
• 30:39
  Meta, they're creating Teflon. It's a transaction.
• 30:42
  Yeah. You know, so all of a sudden in
• 30:46
  this conversation you can see where the agency role is going
• 30:48
  to take, you know, and then the magic it could be, could become.
• 30:52
  Yeah, my, my, my prediction for the future is there'll be some
• 30:55
  sort of dopamine score per transaction or customer journey.
• 30:59
  What of notion, right? It's how much mean, how much
• 31:02
  emotion can I get you to feel whether you're shopping luxury
• 31:06
  or whether you're shopping value.
• 31:08
  And, and here's the thing. I know people and the, the, the
• 31:11
  the research shows this. If you shop value, you still get
• 31:16
  that same dopamine kick as someone who's buying a $10,000
• 31:20
  back because that to you is so emotionally important and right.
• 31:25
  Oh, and right now is. It.
• 31:27
  Yeah, it. Was passionate, yeah.
• 31:30
  And this is where we take over Laura and things get messy.
• 31:33
  OK, let's get the whiskey. That's right.
• 31:35
  Let's go. We're back-to-back to back to
• 31:37
  2022 mid COVID. Actually, was that not?
• 31:41
  He's left. He's even left the chair.
• 31:43
  No, he's back now. Did you fall off it there?
• 31:46
  I'm having technology problems left right and centre.
• 31:49
  Honestly there's a 10,000 LB camera and it's switching off.
• 31:53
  But anyway, with that one look, have we covered?
• 31:56
  All the points. Yeah, I think we have.
• 31:59
  You had a good time. You can't you can't edit that
• 32:03
  bit out now, Alex. I don't don't do that.
• 32:04
  That's got that's. Oh yeah, Audie was hurt.
• 32:08
  Actually what you said was really great though.
• 32:10
  And then you just, it was so good, that dopamine piece.
• 32:13
  So yeah. That that sounds amazing.
• 32:17
  That the the, the so just to give you the trend.
• 32:20
  So shopping centres and environments where people are
• 32:24
  collective. So take theme parks right there.
• 32:28
  That that feeling is what over here and a lot of new shopping
• 32:32
  centres are now what I'm coining as dopamine villages.
• 32:36
  What does that mean? It means shopping centres,
• 32:38
  especially in the US, are so dead and boring.
• 32:41
  You see them bringing and you were saying like the the, the
• 32:44
  guy with the store that bought a basketball thing or a thing
• 32:47
  experienced that saw no, they're bringing in electric go karting
• 32:51
  water experiences. You're talking about Southeast
• 32:55
  Asia like you talk about the mall experience in Thailand on
• 32:59
  in Asia. You're, it's banging on, you're
• 33:01
  bang on that dopamine here, you know?
• 33:07
  That's what's the saviour of physical shopping centres
• 33:10
  because they've all been in decline.
• 33:12
  Westfield has been suffering. And the reason I know this, I
• 33:14
  was at Mappick. Mappick is the industries like
• 33:19
  real estate show that happens in.
• 33:21
  It's a beautiful show in Cairns. It's very small, very boutique,
• 33:25
  very lovely, and you know one who sells 2 shopping centres,
• 33:30
  take their things there. So what you end up there, you
• 33:32
  see there was like a surf machine, as I said, go Kart,
• 33:35
  electric, go karts, because number one, families want to do
• 33:39
  things together #2 you need that excitement that it used to be
• 33:44
  anchor tenants. They used to call them anchor
• 33:46
  tenants in retail, but now it's anchor experiences.
• 33:50
  What are those experiences? I reckon because I imagine this.
• 33:53
  I mean, as a Westerner, I can't talk as as being from Southeast
• 33:57
  Asia, but imagine doing a grocery shop and having a little
• 34:00
  bit of go Kart action as well. And in the same visit with your
• 34:03
  mum and dad, That'd be as my blowing as a kid you'd want to
• 34:06
  go shopping, you know, and that would make it, that would make a
• 34:09
  day of it both functionally and experientially, you know.
• 34:13
  So that's pretty neat. Yeah, instead of going for two
• 34:16
  hours, you go for four hours on a Saturday.
• 34:19
  Let's get, you know, get some nice food and and there's,
• 34:22
  there's loads of like these multi activity environments for
• 34:26
  like under 10s where mum and dad could leave the, the kid there
• 34:30
  for an hour or so and go off and do some.
• 34:33
  So you know the especially in the shopping centre industry,
• 34:36
  they know that they need to transform to to stay relevant.
• 34:40
  Exactly. Wow, that's really cool.
• 34:42
  That's a really like that's. Why I'm inside.
• 34:43
  Well, until next week. Thank you so much, Reef.
• 34:46
  Thank you so much, Nora. I heard you guys are going to go
• 34:49
  and drink whiskey together as it was, Yes.
• 34:51
  We Laura used to have a little show called Whiskey and
• 34:54
  Commerce. I tried to get on it every week
• 34:58
  because I involved me drinking whiskey.
• 35:00
  So that was a would be. She have good quality whiskey.
• 35:03
  We'll need we'll need to take that episode down because me and
• 35:06
  Reef got quite drunk on whiskey so.
• 35:08
  Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I'm with the kids.
• 35:11
  Our our group activity can be going for a run, a walk, no
• 35:15
  whiskey drinking on on this show.
• 35:17
  We're going to be doing healthier to it's ease.
• 35:19
  Like, I don't know. Yeah.
• 35:21
  You could make, you could make your favourite, you know, Berry
• 35:24
  shake or something like that, you know.
• 35:25
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you.
• 35:27
  Can. Shake that was pre COVID when
• 35:30
  people were, you know, were more fun.
• 35:34
  Yeah, OK. We have that.
• 35:35
  Thank you so much, Rick. Thank you so much, Laura.
• 35:38
  Until next. Week.
• 35:38
  Thank you. Bye.