Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / Secret Lives of Mormon Wives recap (7-8) COLLAB with Your Bish Therapist

Transcript

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives recap (7-8) COLLAB with Your Bish Therapist · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Drama Darling, Drama Darling, Drama Darling.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome in everybody. It's me Amy Phillips with Drama Darling, and.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: It's Melissa Reich, your bish therapist. It's a collab, ya,
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: it's a collabe.
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: We are doing it.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: This is so.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Exciting, Melissa Reich.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Obviously, if you're listening to both of our podcasts, we're
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: posting this on both of our feeds. So hello to
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: all the bish therapists out there who listen. What do
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: you call your bish therapist listeners? Anything in particular.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know that we've come up with
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: a name, but I'm pretty sure the default is just vicious.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: And thanks for listening.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you do,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: then please come on over and subscribe, follow me over
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Drama Darling wherever you get your podcasts, and you can
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: always subscribe to my Patreon and those are ad free. Also,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: i'd like to make a note that guys, if you're
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: listening to this, I figured out my ad situation so
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: there won't be as many ads programmatic ads in my episodes.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: That was a little confusing. I didn't know there were
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: so many. I did not do that, but I was
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: alerted and so now it's not going to be as
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: intense anymore. So anyway, and those of you, my darlings,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: you know who your bish therapist is because we talk
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: about her all the time. She's been on my show
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: several times, and obviously she has her own podcast, so
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: please subscribe and follow her as well.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Podcasts available where you get your podcasts.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, and Amy, I will tail off of
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: what you just said, which is that same goes for me.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: There were millions of ads. Amy, my fairy godmother helped
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: bring it to my attention. It was not us, It
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: was not a choice that we made, but we have
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: remedied that situation. So I just wanted to let my
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: peeps know too, because I went from having like two
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: ads to two hundred.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we did not know.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Sometimes these things happened in the podcast world, but look,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: we've we've figured it out. So but you're probably wondering
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: what we're doing today, and that is because it is
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: very important for us to wrap up the season of
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, which everyone has consumed. And
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I think Melissa, you and I might be the last
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: two people on earth to finally talk about, you know,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: the end of it, because the way that we've been
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: doing it unlike probably other podcasts, And that's why I'd
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: like to say our podcasts are fantastic. We take our
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: time with the content. We didn't just do the entire season.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: We broke it down. Okay, Melissa broke it down on
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: her podcast. I broke it down on mine. So today
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: we are both we meet at the end in the
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: last two episodes, so we will be recapping episode seven
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: and eight together.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Wow, and what aducy they were, What a juicy they were.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Indeed, I'm gonna welcome you in. That's actually them being welcome,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: welcomed in when they get their laughing gas. I mean,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: they got some work done, but they got their laughing
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: gas and they got welcomed down there you have.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: I love that. Thank you, I thank you for welcoming.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: And where is my laughing gas? I ask you where?
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I know where? Through life?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I know you know what there's you don't need laughing
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: gas with us. You're going to get a lot of
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: laughs today.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Good point.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the way we're probably going to do this,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: We're gonna figure it out as we go along. But
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: what's going to be really fascinating, especially to me, is
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: that Melissa is a therapist, and so her angle is
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: going to be very different than the way that I've
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: been recapping it. So it's going to be really interesting
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: to hear her takes and her insight on.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: A lot of these people.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So we will kind of dive through I think we
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: should will certainly be able to get into the nuts
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: and bolts of each individual relationships as we get there.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm I'm fine as zig and zag wherever we go. Melissa, Well,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I'm zig in your zag girl, So let's get it.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: We're in it together.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: Well, let's zig on over to the Chippendales.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And uh, this is episode seven and Jen and Taylor
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: they leave Chippendales, they go back to that house and
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: because Zach and Dakota I are mad, and then we
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: to me is and I know you will probably speak
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: to this, which is that she is such a great
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: voice and someone who articulates so well what is happening
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: in the scenes as well as I would say, Macy
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. But
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Demi in her confessional says, this is an example of
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the misogyny going on in the Mormon Church, and like
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: this needs to essentially stop because they're doing whatever they want,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: and like Zach is out gambling, and but it's not
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: okay for Jen to be there. Dakota is upset, so
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: we finish up everything at the Chippendale's Lela gets pulled
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: on stage of Blovity blah blah, and Dakota is just
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: spiraling and is on the phone being like, I'm just
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: imagining a Chippendale dancing on Taylor once she's thirty eight
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: weeks pregnant with my kid. First of all, I hate
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: it when people like say kid. It's just such a
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: weird phrase to me. I don't know why, it just it's.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Just, well, Amy can I can? I also point out
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: he said my kid, oh my yeah, and.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: I'm focusing on kid when he said my thank you.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm like, bro, this is not like it
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: just is indicative of Dakota's sense of ownership over human beings.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I really have my listeners know, and now your listeners
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: will get to hear that I have very serious problems
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: with Dakota and Zach, and I am happy to discuss
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: it with my whole chest because yes. I mean, listen,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I think the word kid too. It feels very detached.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And that's what it means is thank you for me. See,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: these are the things that I learned from you. I
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: don't know what it means, just doesn't hit right.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Oh that's the perfect okay.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but listen, you know, and everyone listening to this
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: knows if there's something like that that's not hitting right,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: you're onto something. I'm just able to put words to
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: it because I have professionally roasted men like this my
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: entire career, and so I think, yep, the choice of
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: my baby it's not your baby was odd and just
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: the whole the whole process of them going to Vegas
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: was just I guess I always throw a title on
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: it of coercive control. That's kind of what I've been
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: calling it. And you know, so Zach had to or
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I get them so confused. Koda had to
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: apologize to Taylor so that he could still come on
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: the trip, so that he could police her, and so
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: that he could you know, have his his temper tantrum
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: about my pregnant girlfriend shouldn't be having the time of
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: her life at Chippendale's. That goes against my tiny little
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: king baby ego.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Do you think that these ladies should have told whomever
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: that they were going backstage at Chippendale's and meeting them.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Does that make any difference in the real world in
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: terms of being honest?
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, of course. So I think that one thing that
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: I said is that Jesse, who kind of planned all
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: of this, she has said in this episode that she
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: had an ex husband who was similar to Zach and
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: to Dakota, And so what frustrates me about that is
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: if you know then how irrational these men can be
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: due to their own stuff. I think not letting the
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: ladies know and not and taking away their informed consent
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: for me in the real world was problematic, right because
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: jen may have made the decision to not attend. And
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: so I think that Jesse, even though maybe she was
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: married to somebody who was like Zach, she clearly has
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: forgotten what it is to it's it's not just about
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: going and doing something fun when you have a husband
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: like that, it's about so much more. And so I
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: do think that was a little bit of a setup
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: for everyone involved. Truly.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think that's messy, and by the way,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I do feel like there are plenty of people out
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: there who practice the Mormon religion that live perfectly healthy,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: happy lives, and so I'm not coming down on that,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: but I do feel like, not even in the Mormon religion,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: but in any kind of relationship or marriage, if there
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: is some sort of weird trust issue, or perhaps there
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: is a history of cheating or I don't know, or
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: maybe somebody's just not comfortable with or doesn't understand the
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Chippendale show, where like for women, it's just a little
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: bit different, you know, we don't it's not as sexualized
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: for us. It's just kind of stupid. Whereas when a
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: man typically goes to a strip club, it, you know,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: it can mean something different, it can have different varying.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: Results, if you will.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: So in many ways, I think that men, these guys
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: in this case are equating it to what it would
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: be like for them in a strip club, and they're
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: just they don't understand, They're naive.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: They don't get it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Jesse set them up and didn't allow them to respect
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: whatever whatever communication they have going on in their marriages
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and put them in that situation, and a lot of
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: people who aren't Mormons would be uncomfortable backstage at Chippendale
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it doesn't have to not me
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: because of that.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: I'll go. I'll go to Vegas right now, sign me up.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: And you know what my husband would give me ones
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: on ones on ones if I were going to Chipendale's
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: or a strip club. Because to your point, men who
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: are secure with themselves are right threatened by that. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: you're right, it goes above and beyond Mormonism. There are
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: men like this in every race, you know, religion, ethnicity,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: every creed has men who just I think listening to me,
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: I think you're being very kind in how you're talking
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: about them. I think you're giving them too much credit.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: I think even if they knew about it, they would
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: still have thrown a similar tantrum because it really why
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: oh you know, in my opinion, it's about that ownership
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: of these women. It's about that patriarchal do as I say,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: not as I do, because we see, right, So Jen
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: is hysterical in this Chippendale's. And what is Zach doing. Oh,
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: that's right, he's gambling, which is literally against their religion.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Number one and number two, that money was brought to
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: you by mom talk.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Yes, so brought to you.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: It's it's just wild wild.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: They are so young, and it's really difficult to separate
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the kind of twisted thinking along and then their youth
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: and naivete. To me, that combination is so disastrous because
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I look at this and I'm like, Okay, Well, if
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I was in a young relationship and my boyfriend and
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say boyfriend because I wouldn't be married
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: at twenty is going to a strip club, I'd be like, no, like,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: because I'd be so naive.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't understand.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I would feel threatened, I would feel jealous, and I
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: wouldn't get it. So I wouldn't have the emotional maturity
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that I was able to garner later on in my
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: life to be able to understand that's really not a
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: big deal in certain situations. And my husband would feel
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the same way. So in many ways, when I look
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: at this, I'm like, oh my god, these guys are
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: just they're all over the place between what they believe
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: and then their young brains not being.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: Mature at all. It's an absolute nightmare.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Now, Amy, can I enter it for a second, because
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: to your point, Demi said, is it Demi or Demi
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Demi Okay to me, sorry, I have been calling her
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Demi my.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Bad's okay because we always call Demi Moore and so,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: but it really is Demi.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So she made a really really excellent point.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: And to speak to what you said before, I think
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: dem and Macy are two of the most emotionally intelligent
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: women who I may have ever seen on television.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I can't believe this, and I have to give Mormon
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: religion credit for that. I mean, as much as maybe
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: we don't want to do that. Where how were they raised?
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: What were they doing before this point? They are evolved.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: They are emotionally mature. Their experiences and what they experienced
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: growing up, and that learned behavior, the seeking, the trying
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: to figure out what you're doing wrong, you.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: Know, all that stuff.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like then their evolution into a bigger understanding
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and a greater understanding has made them this incredibly in
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: these incredibly intuitive, emotionally intelligent women, which is amazing.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: It is, and it just goes to show that, you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: what I've been talking about on my podcast is how
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: it's really about with everybody. How do you apply this
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: religion that you're learning, that you're absorbing how are we
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: applying it as human beings? And I think that dem
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: and Macy are good examples of how you live your
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: religion day to day, how how you are a good citizen,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: how you're a good person, how you speak to people
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: with respect and kindness, how you validate them and hear them,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: but also call them on their stuff. I truly I
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: stand them. I do. I really don't stand a lot
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: of people, I swear do I stand them? Number one
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: and number two, Demi said something really important based on
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: what you just said about how all of these women
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: in Mormonism are getting married before their brains even develop. Right,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And she is so right because one thing I think
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: it's important to point out is that the last parts
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: of our brain to develop are the prefrontal core texes.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: And what do the prefrontal core texes do. They manage
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: impulse control. And so when people do not have that
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: fully developed, it does develop at age twenty five, that
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: is when it's done developing. And so Demi is right
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: that Zach and Jen met when she was twenty. So
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: people look at twenty year olds or eighteen year olds,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: nineteen year olds and they think you're an adult. Well
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: they are not in any way, shape or form. They're
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: basically bigger children, if I'm being honest, and so I
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: think I just love that. Not only did de Me
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: point that out, but she's one thousand percent correct about that,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: a thousand percent.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: What a difference several years can make. Because h Macy, Well,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Demi is older than Jen. Jen is probably the youngest, right,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I believe.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I believe that Jen is the youngest. Yes, And so wait, Layla,
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: Laylah's the youngest.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, and she's already been divorced, which she's starting
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: her whole new life, which is great. It's nice to
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: see her already in that transition, which is wonderful to see.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Now when when Demi said to Jen that Zach is
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: threatening your marriage after you've had two of his kids,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: done nothing but support him, paid for his medical school.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: That's gross.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And she continues to They keep trying to confront Jen
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: and tell her how messed up this is up until, like,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you know, the very last episode, to the point where
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I felt so bad for Jen because Jesse was kind
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: of piling on. She's like, he treats you like shit,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: you know, like I'll never be in the same room
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: with him. And then Demi's like, you don't see it,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: You're not seeing it, and she just crumbles and is like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: you guys, this is really hard for me right now
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and just starts crying. And I had so much compassion
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: for her because she's doing the best she can and
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: man o man o, man o man and she is
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: in such a pickle. And now with this situation where
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: we saw I would like to talk to you about
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the Jen and Zach conversation about New York and how
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: she was like, I would like to put that on
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: pause because I feel like there are opportunities with mom
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Talk and he's like, I don't really care. And then
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: the last scene, of course, is that we see them
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: in New York and they're gonna move there and Jen
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: is not going to be part of mom Talk mom
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: to Tally and yeah, and so how where do we
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: see Jen? Because it seems like she on some level
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: understands what people are saying she's not when she gave
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: the not the excuse, I'm not going to say excuse
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: because I actually when she explained this, it did make
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense. After she left, you know, that night,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: and then she left that party, you know, the baby
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: mama party, all this stuff. You know, they're seeing her
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: like how taw to Zach Well one of the things
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: when she left Vegas in the middle of the night
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: to go be with him because it was just such
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a mess. The next day she said, let me explain
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: what happened. And she was like, oh, it was great.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: We really had this great conversation. It was like really
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: a you know, a breakthrough. And I was like, oh,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: this is the same old thing, like I've been there,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: you know, this is just full shit.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: It's just so.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: But what I thought was interesting, and tell me if
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: you think this is right. But when she said, I
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: haven't been the person that he met, like, I've changed,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I've evolved. I'm not saying yes to everything. I'm fighting
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: him on things. I'm the one paying the bills. I
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: have been inserting myself with a lot more control than
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: he's used to, and now he's not used to that.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: This is pushing all of his buttons and so he's
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: freaking out and that's why this is all happening. And
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: that made sense to me. But please take it from there,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Melissa Reich, but.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Share, please let me take it. Let me take it
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: from here, because holy Moses.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Okay. So one thing that Jen said, I have these quotes,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: and then I filled in my clinical interpretations in there.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: So she says, yes he has these are her words,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: he has these narcissistic traits about him that come out
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: in situations like this every few months. But who's to
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: say in another marriage this would be different. Oh so right,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: let me break this down for you. Okay. So she's saying, yes,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: he has these narcissistic traits about him that come out
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: in situations like this, and I put in parentheses me
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: disobeying him.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: She disobeys and he flips, right, And then she said
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: it happens every few months, and I'm going to shout
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: it from the rooftops. This is called the cycle of abuse.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: It is a cycle, an endless cycle of bad behavior
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: followed by some bs repair. And I say bs because
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: if they really repaired the situation, then the pattern wouldn't
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: keep happening, right, if he was really sorry and if
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: they were really able to repair. So what she thinks
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: is repairing the relationship is really just patronizing him and
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: giving in to him so that she doesn't have to
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: endure his outbursts and then let me say the last
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: part is she said, who's to say in another marriage
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: this would be different? And so what this is.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: This is I'm telling her hex try to go find
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: another Mormon husband, they'll be.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: Just like me.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Well, but it's also textbook rationalization that allows the victim
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: to stay in situations. And so what I talked about
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: on my podcast is that.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: No, it's so I'm sorry to cut you like I'm
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: just the rationalization is out of control.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: And so when she says to the group like, yeah,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: everything is fine, we needed that, and everyone's jaws dropped
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: on the floor. Mine included. What that told me is
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: so many things that told me that this happens constantly. Yeah,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: this pattern happens constantly. It's happened consistently. And if he
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: is willing to do this on TV, what is he
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: willing to do when he's not being filmed or recorded?
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Is what I want to know. Yeah, And one important
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: thing that I want to say, because I have a
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: lot of and I know you too, We have a
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: lot of survivors and thrivers that listen to our podcasts,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: and so there are many reasons why women stay, many
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: many many. I don't want this to induce shame, right,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: because Jen has to make her realizations in her own time.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: She is, I believe, in an abusive situation based on
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: everything we're seeing, based on what she's saying, based on
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: what her friends are saying, and so this is text
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: book cycle of abuse. But Jen isn't ready and I
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: have a ton of empathy for that. I've had the
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: honor of working with domestic violent survivors and one thing
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: they all have in common is this desperate need and
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: they are deserved to be loved.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And not to say that he's abusing her physically, because
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: that's not what we've seen, correc heard, or anything that's assumed. So,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: but any person who looks like they're being meant, you know, well,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I would say, in this situation, what emotionally abused?
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: That we completely verbally, mentally, emotionally all three For sure,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: You're right, and thank you for pointing that out. I
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: am not saying anything about physical because that's not my purview.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: It hasn't been talked about. But what we watched, make
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: no mistake, is verbal, mental, and emotional abuse. And I
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: believe that. I just I believe that she believes. She
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: has made multiple claims about I have it written here.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: When I find it, i'll tell you exactly. But she
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: made comments about well, I thought that if I just
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: loved him enough, I would give him the opportunity to
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: grow or to get better or to improve. And so Jen,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: the problem is she does what a lot of young
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: women do, which is they think they think, well, this
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: is a meat problem, right, I'm not being a good
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: enough wife. I'm not being subservient enough, I'm not doing this,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I'm not doing that. But the fact of the matter
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: is Zach is who he is, and it doesn't matter
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: if Jen was the perfect Mormon wife, he would still
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: find excuses to act out, because that's a personality issue,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: not a Jen issue.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Now, I was really surprised that in that conversation that
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: they had she said to him like, I think you
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: might have been alluding to this, like I see your potential. Yeah,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: And that was so demeaning to him that I loved
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: it because he was like, ex squeeze me now.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: I was like yeah, so.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And then in that same conversation, which I think they
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: were just doing it for the show, because I can't
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: imagine she would be this brave to say this on television.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: But she did, which is that she said, if we
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: don't take a break, I don't know if our marriage
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: will survive this. And for that to come out of
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: her mouth is a very big deal considering that that
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: would be her putting her boundaries up and saying like,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: if you don't change, ultimately giving him an ultimatum, if
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you don't change, if you don't give our relationship space
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: to grow, and if you don't change and live up
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to your potential and what I see for you, then
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to leave.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Now in the meeting, I don't.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Think she meant that. She didn't mean it. I think
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: she was putting on a show for the cameras. Because
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: when it goes back to domestic violence, no woman grows
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: up saying I'm going to be a victim of domestic violence.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I'm going to marry a narcissist, I'm going to be abused, right,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And so these women they're like, well, this isn't me.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I'm not an abused spouse, and so I'm going to
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: lay these these these ground roles and these you know,
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: hard messages. But did you see Zach's face when she
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: did that. He looked like he wanted to he looked
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: really angry. Let me just say that, and then ended
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: up happening.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: When you say domestic abuse, you don't mean physical necessarily.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Correct, correct, because I want to make a clear domestic
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: abuse involves any sort of abuse, physical, emotional, mental, all
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: of that.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: Okay, So yes, thank you.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Oh he looked pissed to high heaven, I mean. And
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: and then part of me thinks that she said that
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to him in a way that was like they had
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: a conversation off camera where she said, I'm going to
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: say some things to you on camera that I don't mean,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: like almost she negotiated.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: With him to save face with the audience, Right.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: That's that's what I think it was. Yeah, But again,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: no woman wants to believe that they are experiencing this
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: pain because this is the person who she loves, right,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: and so what's happening, and she's and that's the most
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: important thing, right, I believe if they did not have children,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: and by the way, they're young kids, they're young, and
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: so that's to my point earlier, is that there are
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: millions of reasons why women don't leave, primarily kids. That's financial,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: financial stuff like could she afford to live with you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: all of these different things, but also let's not forget
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: in Mormonism, probably the biggest factor is shame, right, shame
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: about you know they are they they are very traditional Mormon,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: they have traditional Mormon values, and so this would have
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of stigma to it, right, There would be
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of stigma attached to walking away from her
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: marriage and walking away from your marriage. Then also means
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: what did Zach do about all the women? He dragged
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: them because she's divorced, she's married to an old guy. Right,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: But this is I believe this is what people in
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Utah do, and Jen doesn't want to be talked about
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: in that. So I just I have a lot of
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: for her because I feel like she feels like she's
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: stuck between a rock and a hard place, and she
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: probably is.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: Oh she is.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I felt so bad for her. She's doing the best
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: she can, and I'm surprised at how she actually has
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: been very outspoken with people on the show before even
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: we had that conversation with Zach, you know in the
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: earlier episodes when she would tell like Jesse, ever since
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I started making money, I'm not putting up with.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: The stuff that I used to.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: So it was it's been impressive to see a little
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: bit of her evolution and for her to share that
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: with us. And now she's just in a situation where
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the stakes are so high. You know, they're in the
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: middle of a huge transition in their lives where he's
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: studying to be a doctor. I mean, like that's a
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: really big deal obviously, and I could understand him completely,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you know, demeaning mom talk. When you when you put
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: medical school and mid talk next to each other, medical
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: school is going to win. And that's probably why she
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: agreed to move.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: But here's my question name No, here's my question, who's
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: supporting them? Then? Who is supporting them?
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: That?
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: This is how you know it's a personality issue with
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Zach because it's not even practical. If you're going to
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: move to New York and you're going to be in
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: grad school, how.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: Are you making money?
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: And so But guess what this is what men like
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: him do. It is steps of isolation, steps of taking
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: away independence. Trust me, I have seen this thousands of times.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I've lived it. I've lived it. Yeah, I know exactly
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: what you're talking about. You know, I didn't even think
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're on an island.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: They're literally on an island away from mom talk, away
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: from any of her friends or family. By the way,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: and number two, the fact that Zach is going to
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: be a doctor is just hilarious to me because I
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: have a lot of medical trauma and if I saw
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: him as a doctor, how do you think he's going
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: to treat his female patience?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: By the way, absolutely, i'mutely he's not going to listen
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: to them, He's not going to believe them. He's going
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: to be completely misagnistic. He'll be the worst doctor.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I hope when he gets his license, I'll go
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: see him and I'll make him brand new. I'll make
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: him brand new, and I will teach him what it
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: is to listen to women.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I digress, Melissa's going to teach him a
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: finger too.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna teach him, honey.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Do you know.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Where they stand to this day? Are they like they're
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: still together and in New York and he's in medical school?
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: Is that what's happening?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: So? From what I understand, yes, that they are in
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: New York. He is still in medical school. She is
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: not coming back to season two of Secret Lives and
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Mormon Wives. However, I did have to note that at
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: first it looked like Whitney wasn't going to come back,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: and now, of course Whitney is coming back. She is.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: I didn't see that news. Oh that's amazing.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she released so real. I'm glad a reel of
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: her and Connor where she was like on this old
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: flip phone and it was like Whitney added back to
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: the group. And I'm thinking after the season finale, which
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I know we'll talk about like how but whatever. My
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: point is is that Whitney's need for attention is greater
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: than anything else on the planet. So there, she'll be there.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: She'll be good because they need a villain. I mean,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: you do need to have some sort of villain. You
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: need to have that push and pull. And she's such
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: a fascinating, delusional.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: Person that you just love to hate.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: So why don't we move on and talk about Whitney
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: before we get into the tailor stuff. So Whitney has
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: isolated herself because she feels better than holier than now,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and better than everybody, and essentially she will she The
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: biggest thing is that she doesn't go to Macy's, her
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: best friend. Apparently her Baby Mama launch party and also
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: is nowhere to be found. And then it ultimately turns
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: up at Michayla's birthday and they're not even friends, and
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: she walks in like the cat who ate the Canary
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: and pulls Macy aside and they have a conversation in
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: which Macy was great. She is just perfectly articulated everything
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: she needed to from emotional standpoint by saying like, you're
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: still in the doghouse, but thank you for the apology, essentially,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: and Whitney is just the constant victim. Is that right, Melissa?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Please give me your take on Whitney.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, I have a lot of takes on Whitney. Again,
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to shot them from the rooftops. I call
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: her Whitney Avoidance Levitt. Her middle name should be avoidance
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: because her whole life, from start to fish of this
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: series has been avoiding. It was first she went to
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Hawaii to avoid the well. She claimed it was mom
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: talk that she was avoiding, but it was really the
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: rumors about Connor. Okay, Then she doesn't go to anything.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: She leaves the group chat when she leaves whenever thing's
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Whinnie is a perpetual victim, perpetual. She is a perpetual
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: gas lighter. She is unable to take any sort of
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: ownership or accountability over anything. I believe she sees all
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: of her relationships as completely transactional. And I could write
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: a dissertation.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Even though she's not projecting that on other people, saying
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: we wouldn't really be friends if we didn't have to
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: do a video together. So she's projecting that transactional thing
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: on other people.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And here's the thing. She's like, she does all
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: these things she projects. She doesn't even do it cleverly though.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: It's not even like it's so easy to see. And
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I think that she just like has this desperate need
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: for attention. And some people, some folks who don't get
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: the love and support that they need growing up, they
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: will take attention anyway that they can get it, whether
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: it's good or bad attention. And usually you see that
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: in children and adolescents, but you certainly can see that
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: in adults. I think Whitney is extremely emotionally immature. And
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: one thing I wanted to say that I thought was
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: kind of funny. She talked about homesteading, and one of
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: the producers called her out about the isolation of that,
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, yes, thank you, producers, because homesteading is
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: fancy and sustainable isolation. It's eco friendly isolation.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: That's interesting.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I have not here the producer say that.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear the producer asked that question. That's so
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: completely missed that that's really great.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Wow. I was like, I was impressed with because I'm like,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: oh good, these producers are sick of her shit too. Well.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially in light of all the Tradwives situation
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: you know out there with Ballerina Farm and Nara, all
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: of these these Mormon influencers. Okay, let me take a
• 35:17
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• 35:20
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• 35:23
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  Speaker 2: every day with Let's get back to the collaboration episode
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: with your bish therapist talking about secret lives of Mormon wives.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Connor spilling the Las Vegas tea to Whitney was witnessing
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: the greatest moment of his life.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: For sure, He's like the heat's not on me anymore.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like that to me in the background, hanging there
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: with Whitney is like the wildest thing to watch because
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: she's not going to do anything about it.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: They're just not gonna do anything about it. They're just
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: gonna move on and not.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: And have another baby.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, here's the thing amy these relationships. To make
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: a relationship work when you have partners like this, it
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: requires a lot of ignoring, a lot of avoiding, a
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: lot of stuffing, a lot of pretending and listen, I
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: don't begrudge anyone the chance to have, you know, their
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: children and their family, but in my opinion, some of
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: these women will do so at the cost of their
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: own happiness, and they just don't even seem to think
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: twice about it, because I think that this is what's
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: modeled sometimes in the Mormon religion. It's not about being happy,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: it's just about staying married. And it's like, well, that's slavery,
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: that's that's not what marriage is. So it's you know,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I think some of it is symptomatic or problematic of
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Some just what you do.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: It's what you do, and then you know, perhaps that
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: really feeds into her behavior of why she's acting the
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: way that she's acting because of everything that's going on here.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: And we saw how her mom didn't give her the
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: sex talk, but I also didn't really have much of
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: a sex talk either. But the point being is that
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: her mom was avoiding that. Obviously, I'm sure my mom
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: wants to on some level, but like, you know what
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, But that's a big that's you know, those
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: are those are patterns of avoidance that you've seen and
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: then then you're emulating them on.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: Some level, correct, you know Whitney's mom Amy, I want
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: to say this really quick. Whitney's mom made a quote
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: that I wanted to point out. She made some comment
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: about you have to be careful about too much temptation
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: or about having too much pleasure. And so what I
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: think is interesting is that Whitney's family, I'm assuming, like
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: many Mormons, there's this generational trauma of avoidance passed down
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: from generation to generation, because avoiding temptations is not the
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: way to learn how to manage them, right, It's a
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: great way to learn how to have problematic, you know, skills.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: So my point is is that Whitney wasn't taught to
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: face things and address them and deal with them. It's
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: in her family. It seems the Mormon way is to
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: just have another baby, pretend it doesn't exist. You know,
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: don't get to Whitney did the same thing that Jen
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: did with Zach. She did the same thing with Connor.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: It was just like, well, ladies, here it is. This
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: is the situation. But we're moving forward and I trust
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: him and then it's just like you never heard of
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: it again. That so to me, I'm seeing patterns in
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: these women's relationships, and you know, that's how it wouldn't be.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: That's such a great point. And you we wouldn't necessarily,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, it wouldn't stick out if the other women
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: weren't all like some of the other women are seeing
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: it for what it is, so they're able to call
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: it out. But it wouldn't be called out because that's
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: just how they live, you know. And when I say they,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I also don't even mean like just the Mormon community,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: any dysfunctional relationship in any religion everywhere. But because we're
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: talking about this show and these patterns, that's why we're
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: leaning into that. But yeah, and so Whitney being the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: constant victim She's like, they don't check on me. She's
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: talking to Connor while she's like hammering together something to
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: make it look like she's a homesteader. She's like hammering
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: together a ladder or some bullshit, and she's like, they
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: don't call me or check me. You know. I just
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I love what mom talks stands for, and I feel
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: like I have so much, Like I give so much
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: this platform, and I can continue to do that, but
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I just don't want to do it with this group
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of woman, she said, group of women, which.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I don't Daniel stop.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: It's exactly what I thought. They don't know what the
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: plural will. Thank you for Thank you for knowing that.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: Thank you for knowing that.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: O my god, it's amazing. Now.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: The other thing is, I just want to quickly mention
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: that Macy went, I'm just going back to Vegas real quick.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: When Jen left that night at like two in the morning,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I was kind of going through it in my head,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, she must have had some sort
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: of producer help or get from A to B, you
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like someone leaving a place at
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: two in the morning in Las Vegas and then you
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: not hearing from them.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: For that long. It's terrists it's terrifying.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: And when Macy said like anything is possible, like I
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: watch a lot of true crime and that yes, spend
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a hell.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Out And I thought to myself, it's not just that
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: Macy watches a lot of two true crime, because don't
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: all white women of our age love true crime? If
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: I'm being right, that's such a such a thing. But
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: so I think what that means is that she knows them, right,
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: And so it's not just that she loves true crime.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: She knows them. And if someone who knows you thinks
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: for one possible second that you could have been some
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: sort of a victim of something, that is really concerning
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: to me behind the scenes, because Macy does have her
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: finger on the pulse. She does understand, in my opinion,
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: the way things work. So for me, I'm like, well,
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: if she's worrying about this, that is a huge red
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: flag for me. Oh I'm huge.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: Let's talk about Dakota and Taylor. Okay.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: So it's like the morning after the Chippendales, right, and
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Dakota calls Taylor and he's on speakerphone and he's like, oh, yeah,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: you know, Zach gambled until one thirty the jaws on
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: those ladies drop to the floor because that was some tea.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: And because Taylor goes, oh, and he goes, what am
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I supposed.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: To say that, you know?
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Because I wonder if he really that did seem like
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: he kind of bamboozled himself there.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: And then and then.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Taylor goes on to say, well, yeah, you know, she
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: left at like two in the morning because like we
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: ended up meeting the Chippendales. And he's like, wait, you
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: met them? Why didn't you tell me that last night?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: And she's like, I'm telling you now. I'm because I'm
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: telling you now. I loved it so much because Kyler,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: she's amazing, I know her.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: The difference in response of Jen versus Taylor is literally everything,
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: because it's like similar behaviors from Zach and Dakota, right,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: similar processes under these behaviors. But while Jen is terrified
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: and trying to convince him to love her, Taylor's like,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: m mmmm, not me. Ain't gonna do it now, ma'am.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And I was like, that's right.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Taylor, She's lived it, she sees it, and she's not gonna,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: you know. So she's like, why are you calling me
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: right now? And then she just hangs up, so they're
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: obviously off to a bad start. Then Dakota comes to
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the house and apologizes to her. So now we have
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: the whole Jenna situation and Macy getting that message. Taylor
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: is a mess crying in this bed, and he apologized
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: for overreacting the night before. She's like, we're seventeen days
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: away from having our baby and we're so bad. He says, now,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: talk about gaslighting, but when you changed who you were
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: when we met, and she essentially I'm just paraphrasing, and
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: she says, no, let me rephrase that, because you're not
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: gonna gaslight me. The guard went up because of the lies.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Oh that's an interesting and a different story, Dakota. Now,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: I also don't let Taylor walk away on scathes and
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: all this, by the way, and I'm sure you don't either.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Now I want to ask you, like I'd like to
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: break this down in a couple different ways.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: One, do you think it.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Was the right thing to do that Macy bring this
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: information to her seventeen days before she's gonna have a baby. Uh?
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, And here's why I believe that whatever's happening. Macey
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: knows Taylor, right, they're friends, and she knows just like
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: my close friends, I would know what they would want
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: me to do in that same scenario, right, And it
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: seems like Macy knows Taylor well enough, and Taylor, by
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: the way she responded, in my opinion, it did give
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: her time at least to process it and think about it,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: because could you imagine, So, I've never had kids, Amy,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: you have, but could you imagine being postpartum, exhausted, sleep deprived,
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: and then being told this information. She wouldn't have been
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: able to process it appropriately in my opinion, So yes,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: I think it was absolutely appropriate for her to share
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: that and not keep the secret anymore.
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: Ye, yeah, I agree.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Now, if I could just jump to the very end,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: which is obviously the cliffhanger for next season, which is
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: that Macy calls Jenna on the phone who she is,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: assuming that this message is referring to that Dakota slept
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: with Jenna, And so she calls Jenna on the phone
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: and we get you know, Jenna saying I'll.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: Tell you everything you want to know.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: So and at that point, for me, after she's already
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: spoken with Dakota, She's already spoken with Taylor. It is
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: what it is now. She's literally gonna have this baby. Personally,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think she should be talking to Jenna at
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: this point. I don't think she should dig any further.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I think she should leave it alone because they just
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: need to survive and get this baby fed and changed
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: and loved and focused on that. And so I feel
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: that Macy's choice at the end here, to me seems reckless,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: and I don't agree with it. I do agree with
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: her telling her right away, But what do you think
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: about this cliffhanger?
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I fully agree with you, Amy. I think that, you know,
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: one of the terms that I've been using on social
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: media is about a drama triangle, and you know, there's
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: this drama triangle by Cartman, and so I've been talking
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: a lot about it. But I believe that by doing
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: what Macy did, she is triangulating herself into Quoda and
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Taylor's drama triangle. She is putting herself right up in there,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: and I understand why. But I do agree that she
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: doesn't understand what she's doing is it's probably great for
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: the show, it's not great, Like, why why does she
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: even want to take that on right, because I think
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: then if she has information, then she has to hold
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: on to that. Right. That's a lot for her to carry.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: And it's like it's Deeler's responsibility. If she wants to
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: talk to Jenna, she should do that. So I agree,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: I think maybe definitely overstepped and put herself into the
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: drama triangle.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, thanks for confirming that.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: I just need to I just need to point this out.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: So if you're giving an apology to somebody and then
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: two minutes after that apology, you try to blame them
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: for being a different person, you were never sorry in
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: the first place. So Dakota, it's again, it's about appeasing Taylor,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and why they're in this toxic merry go round is
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: because he keeps doing the same thing and he wants ownership.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: In my opinion, he wants ownership over Taylor. He's saying
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: I want He said, I I want you to surrender
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: to me. He said that to Taylor, So that tells
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: me he wants ownership. He talks about my baby, he
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: talks about my girlfriend, you know, at Chippendale's. So not
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: only do I believe he wants ownership, I also believe
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: that he's not sorry at all, because that when you apologize,
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: it should be for you and that's it, and not
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: dependent upon what the other person does or doesn't do.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: And so for him to then immediately go to gaslighting
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: her about how which is what it is, how you're different,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: that immediately takes steps back from the accountability that he
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: just took. So I want to be clear about something.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: People who have narcissistic traits and tendencies, they can appear
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: to take accountability, but then their behaviors tell that they
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: don't really mean it.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actions speak louder than words, and narcissists have a
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: great way with words.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Great and then they never them some of them don't.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, there you go. I should correct myself.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Some of the ones that I've known can you know,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: throw themselves on the ground and be as sorry as possible,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: but then do the same thing the next day, and
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like it's just a.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: Bunch of bullshit.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Now here's where this is where I want to I
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: have like several questions for you, So bear with me now, So, Dakota,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: everything that he says from here on out, from from
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: this scene with Taylor and the scene in the car
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: with Macy, which was intense. Is him lying? I mean,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: it's just him straight up lying, and you can see
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: it plain as day. And Taylor is saying to him
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: and essentially threatening him, and I understand if this did
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: go down, I will find out. And then he projects
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: under her and says vice versa. I'm sick of hearing
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: the same thing over and over again, and I never
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: hear I'm sticking around. Okay, So he's flipping it. She says,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: you know that if things come out, I'm going to
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: end things with you. So here's where I am looking
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: at this, and I'm going, is Taylor putting? And also
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: put Dakota in an impossible situation? And let me explain this, okay,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: One did she put him in an impossible situation? When
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: we found out not from her mouth but from his
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: that she said, you can go and do whatever you
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: want with whomever you want, just don't tell me. And
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: then the night that he did that, he didn't tell
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: her because she told him not to, and so he
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: lied to her. But now she's saying, you cannot lie
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: to me, and how dare you lie to my face
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: and then go be with someone? Well, what does she
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: expect him to do because she doesn't want to know.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: How is he not supposed to lie? So that to
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: me is very confusing. She almost set him up for disaster.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: So in some ways she trying to self sabotage this, which,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: by the way, at one other point somebody said, and
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: I maybe Zach or it was Dakota, but one of
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: them said, your self sabotaging me, when it was like.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: Dakota said that.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, Dakota said, that's Mazie right, may You're.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Self sabotaging me. I'm sorry. Can you take the self
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: such a narsise? That makes Yeah, it makes no sense.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: So so Taylor almost like is saying go do what
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: you want, like it's an open relationship.
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: It doesn't seem right.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: I agree and listen, those are valid points. The one
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: thing I can say for Taylor is she admitted, and
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: I wrote this in all caps, she admitted that she's miserable,
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: and she admits she self created it. And that is
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: one of the things that I love about Taylor is
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: because she can say, here's how I've participated in my
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: own demise. So I don't know what specifically she knows
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: that she's done, but you have a valid point here.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: My interpretation of this was that, yeah, she said those
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: things to Dakota, but when she asks him, he lies
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: to her. So it's the lie that's the problem. It's
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: the lie that tells her, well, I can't trust you
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: because you said no, and now we're seeing these things.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: But she told him not to tell her about having
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: being with other people, So I guess I don't understand
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: how he's supposed to tell her when she told him
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: not to tell her.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: Well, and listen, I don't remember hearing that part where
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: she said, but I know that you're telling the truth.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: Is that I don't remember her saying don't tell me
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: about it, but I think listen, and you're right. She
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: gives him mixed messages because my theory about Taylor, and
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: I've gotten a lot of feedback about this from other folks,
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: is that her mom and dad are so awful to
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: her that I believe that she was never given the
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: unconditional love and support that she desperately needed, and so
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: now she's looking for it in a partner. And unfortunately,
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: the only child on this planet who are supposed to
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: give us unconditional love and support are our parents. And
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: so when we don't get that from our parents, then
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: we look for it in other people who it's not
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: appropriate to give that to us. Dakota, for all intents
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: and purposes, he's not supposed to give her unconditional love.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: There are conditions on romantic relationships. And of course Taylor
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: plays a role in this dysfunctional relationship because while she's
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: saying to him, I'll leave you, guess what she's not doing.
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: She's not leaving him, right, She's saying that she's going
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: to leave him. She's talking a big game, she's acting
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: like she's really tough, but then when it comes down
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: to it, she's not making any changes. So she looks
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: stronger and tougher than Jen. But in my opinion, they're
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: both doing very similar things.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, but he hasn't actually told for the truth, So
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: she's living in this.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: World of.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Ambiguity, right, so she can't leave, I mean, if she's
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: gonna believe him, but deep down she knows she has
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: to know. I mean, he's lying. You're watching this. I
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: don't even know Dakota, and he's lying. I can see
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: the lies all over his face. And he he pretty
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: much said to Macy like I couldn't believe how transparent
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: he was being, and she didn't. Actually, I mean, I
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: don't blame her for not picking up on this, But
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: in the car when they were having that very strange
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: drive for fifteen minutes, I was so uncomfortable by the
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: way them being in a car together, Like, why didn't
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: they just get out of the car and talk on
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: a park bench?
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: That was so fucking weird.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: It was so weird. And also I did feel concerned
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: for Macy because Dakota is very unpredictable and I knew
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: that he was motion regulated, and so I just did
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: worry about that. But listen, it worked out fine. But
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: you're right, there were a million things in that conversation
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: to me that were red flags. Yeah, a million.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: So she's explained to him, I chose to tell her
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: now instead of postpartum. She's like, because I think that
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: would be better, And he said, but is that better?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Meaning like, could you not have done this? Could you
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: just have waited?
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: Because is it really better to do that? Right now?
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to have a baby here with this woman
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and she's a mess. Please let me try to handle
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: this and we'll deal with all.
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: That later, you know what I mean? Like, that's how
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: I feel like he's doing.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: He's sweeping it aside and going, yeah, there's a shit
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: pile here, and I know I'm gonna have to clean
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: it up, but I don't want to deal with it
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: until this baby's out.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: That's how I see him, and he's I have a.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Very different take on that.
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: Oh oh oh, tell me okay.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Because he so, Yes, I see what you're saying. But
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: then he tells Macie, he said, the issues that we're
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: having in this relationship are due to you. You are
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: sabotaging us and his life. Here's the thing, this is
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: exactly what a controlling person would say, and his life
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: would be easier if Macy was the problem. So what
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: I'm saying is in my perspective, which I'm not saying
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: I'm right. I'm just saying I perceive him again to
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: be talking some good talk. But then he goes to
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: playing the blame game, and Mason even says to him,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: she says, he says, she says something about you. You
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: want to blame me, And he says, I'm not looking
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: for someone to blame. But then he says, you're the
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: only one to blame.
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: Yes, See, he literally said that. You literally said it.
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: Bro get your story, like you can't get fuel.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: He wants to try to make it better for what
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: he thinks is better for Taylor, which I don't know
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: what's better for Taylor, you know, quite frankly, At this point,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: all I know is that I keep hearing the words
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: seventeen days until I have this baby, and it's really
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: stressing me out.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: So here's wild. Dakota is telling Macy, you don't know
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: what's best for her, but then he's trying to say,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: I know what's best for her. And guess what, no
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: one knows what's best for Taylor except for Taylor. So
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: can we just can everyone just let that go for
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: a minute? It just makes it. He just makes me
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: so mad.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: It's like he admitted he was lying in that car.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: He admitted he was lying, and then, like you said,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: blamed her for it, bringing up his lie, like bringing
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: this all up.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: It just and then he's like, well, why don't you
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: like me? And it's like because you this every part,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: here's the thing, every single conversation he has, I believe
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: is a microcosm of the bigger issue, and he and
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: Taylor's relationship blame blame, blame, blame, no accountability, circular arguments,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: focusing on things that don't matter. So to me, he
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: is a huge part of the problem because you're not
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: just seeing this with Taylor. Maysie is a great communicator,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: and if you're seeing her have this weird conversation and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: feel so strange about it, it's a Dakota problem. So
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: he will get he will get. No, you are being
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: very lovely and compassionate, but your bish doesn't have any
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: for Dakota today.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: Oh I don't have any compassion for Dakota. I just
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: see it as a very difficult situation because Taylor's pregnant
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: and I think, sure there's some level of concern for
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: a baby here that I think he's maybe in his
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: probably delusion, he's probably hiding it in this actually you know,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: so forget my point, but that there's a baby here,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: and that please let's not deal with all my shit
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: until this baby is out, because I'm worried.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: Right right, And it's like Dakota, that isn't how life works.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: There's not a perfect time to deal with things, to
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: talk about things. And so back to the point about
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: why Taylor needed to know this, there's never going to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: be a good time. Seventeen days before birth, postpartum. It's
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: all hard. It's just different hard in different ways. Yeah,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: and so I think that him trying to gatekeep the
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: information that Taylor has and the Taylor doesn't have.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: She got pregnant when they came back together after this,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: like after she knew about there might have been a
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: situation with somebody, right like with this Jenniferson.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: So he's had nine months to tell her the truth correct.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: And has chosen not to at every single turn. In fact,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: there was it was one episode I forget which one
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: it was where he was talking to her about this.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: It was with when Macy was there. It was like
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: a group therapy type of thing, and you know, because
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: Macy does like to insert herself in their drama, but
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: she was talking to him about here was the problem.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: You lied, And then he grasped too every single other straw,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: just so that he didn't have to admit that he
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: was dishonest. Right, He could have squashed it then and
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: there if he would have said, yeah, you're right, I
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: was dishonest.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, but that was a safe space for
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: him to admit he could have done it right, then,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: and he could have done it so many times, but
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: he didn't.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: Or he could have just said, you know, I know
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: that you feel that I'm not being truthful. Tell me
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: what I can do to repair this, because this is
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: this is the truth for me. So and I hear
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: you don't believe me, and so like, how can we
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: repair this? But he doesn't want to repair. He wants
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: to blame and shame and he gets away with it. Yeah,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: and he just wants women to just be like, Okay,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: this is fine, and it's like, well it.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Isn't It's crazy that he thinks that, you know, he
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: could keep a secret like this, considering you know, it's
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: just now I lost my mind when Whitney pulled out
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: a pea stick from the cake for the announcement, isn't
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: that amy perfect example of how delusional she is?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: I can't really think about this.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: It was the most perfect example of what on earth
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: is wrong with this woman that she legitimately, she legitimately
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: thought it was appropriate to put a literal pea stick
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: a pregnancss that she peed on in a cake and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: she her her response was well, I covered it. She
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: put the like the the cover over it.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's the tip, the plastic tip, And.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: I'm like, what is happening upstairs for you?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: Because I mean the sister was like, who's younger than hers?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, By the way, what is what would that
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: be called? Somebody who has no discernment, Like, you know,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: she brought the fruity pebbles, she put the pea stick
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: in there, she shows up plate, she has no discernment whatsoever.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: I don't know what it would be called. What is that?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: Narcissism?
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: Oh okay, I'm pretty sure that's just that's just what
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: stupidity meets narcissism.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: Maybe I don't know.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's I think that. I definitely think in all
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: seriousness that Whitney is socially awkward and socially lacks some
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: social skills. I would say that that paired with some
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: of those personality traits and tendencies. I also just think
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: because she she's another person, she's like Dakota in the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: way that she can't take accountability and own anything. So
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like for her, when you're living in a
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: brain of someone who's never wrong, Like if you can
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: never be wrong or hold yourself accountable, well then how
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: can you ever adjust your social skills and grow, right.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: I mean that just kind of makes logical sense. The
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: whole point of personal growth is to say, Okay, I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: made this mistake, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: this different. But Whitney is incapable of that. So she
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: just continues to do these strange thing.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: And not to mention.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: I mean the biggest one, which was doing the TikTok
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: dance in front of her baby that had RSV.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then is that narcissism O? Yeah, yeah, well
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: it's that, but it's also a desperate need for attention, which,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: by the way, so narcissism. I could do a whole
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: episode on this, But narcissism there is, there's a continuum,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: and not every everyone has narcissistic traits and tendencies, right,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: but when it crosses the border into pathology, and there's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: some specific criteria for that. But one of those criteria
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: is lack of empathy of when you do something wrong
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: and you upset someone, how do you like? Whitney doubles
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: down on that instead of saying, oh wow, okay, I
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: understand how this could have hurt you, and so in
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: her mind she can't ever hold herself accountable for anything,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: and so it just leads her to kind of behave
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: in this very odd because if you look at it,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: it's like it's this dance of avoidance and then awkwardness,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: avoidance and then awkwardness.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: She should do an mom talk dance on that. Oh,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: she should should all get together and do that dance.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes they should, and I'd be happy to star
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: in it as the therapist. Please let me. I'm in No,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. I can't dance at all.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: But well, we do find out that Whitney is taking
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: a step down from mom talk, and now we know
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Jack she's not living. But now we find out that
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: she's not and Taylor has her baby, and Dakota is
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: very excited and very supportive, and it ends with Whitney
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: calling Jenna. Now, uh, please fill in any blanks before
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: we wrap up.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: If there's anything else you want to touch on.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yes, one thing I wanted to touch on was Zach.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: There was a little chestnut dropped and I have it
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: highlighted where Demi, Demi, I'm sorry, it's going to take practice.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Demi says, he's such a narcissist. He sucks the life
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: out of her, and then he proceeds. She proceeds to
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: tell the story about how Zach's gambling the family. Zach's
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: family gave he and Jen money for school, and he
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: blew through it gambling.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: Did you catch that's true?
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, so that is true?
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: That is wow wow wow, Okay, because one of the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: girls said that, right, it was a quite kind of a.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, it was to me, and it was a throwaway line.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: But your bitch catches all the good stuff and so crazy, right,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: and so it's like with and the other thing I
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: did want to say is like Jesse, she laughed, and
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: she said about Zach that she gave him serial killer vibes, yeah,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: and compared him to type Bundy. I thought that was
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: so hilarious. But I think the most concerning thing is
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: when and again this was like a little throwaway thing,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: but when Jen is talking to Zach in their living
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: room and he looks like he just wants to explode.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Jen's talking to him about how mom talk is so
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: important to her, and his response was, I don't care.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: I don't care. They're not significant. And so my point
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: in saying this is because you know, I may do
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: an episode about narcissistic personality disorder and how that can
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: cross the bridge into psychopathology, because what I'm telling you
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: is that is a wildly atrocious respec bonds to the
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: mother of your children about something that's important to her.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: It's important, and the things that he texted her that
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: night in Vegas that they all saw horrible things and
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: I'm done, We're done. I'm like, yeah, that's what you
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: say when you're in a relationship, when you're in your
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: early twenties and you're not married and you don't have kids,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: and you don't know what a relationship is like, and
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: you've got no in pulse control and you're just a mess.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: Those are the things that you do when you're young,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: and that's what they're doing in this marriage. It's like
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: they're playing house and the stakes are so high.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: They're so high, and I'm really upset that Jen's not
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: going to be back because I would bet every single
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: dollar that I own that this relationship will will crash
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: and burn. And I hope for Jen's sake that she
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: realizes that she deserves better, and so do her children.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: Because the last thing that I'll say is that even
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: though the ladies in their intervention with and they did
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: go a little hard. It was really overwhelming. But Jesse
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: made the most solid point, which is you are teaching
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: your children how to be loved and love other people.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: And I just thought snaps, because that is kids don't
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: learn by what we say. They learn by watching what
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: we do. And when they watch this man treat their
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: mother in a certain way or talk to her in
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: a certain way, that is what is so dangerous for
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: these children. So I just hope that Jen and her
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: children they are okay, they are safe, they are happy,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: whatever happens. But any people listening to this, please know
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: that if anything we've said has resonated with you, it
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: is not your fault. You're not alone. And I just
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: send everyone dealing with this a ton of love and
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: support because Amy is you and I both discussed. It's
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: very nuanced, it's very complex, and I just I want
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: anyone listening to this who's been a victim, is a
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: victim to know that you are loved, are supported, You
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: are not deserving of any of this treatment.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: There you go.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Amen to that, sister. What an amazing collaboration. I just
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: could talk to you all the livelong daylight and I'm
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: so happy that I got to get in the ears
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: of your listeners. So to your listeners, I will say,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: please check out Drama Darling Tuesdays and Thursdays if you
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: want to hear any pop culture recaps like Real Housewives,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: you know, Mormon Wives, some true crime.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: Things like that.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: And then over on patreon dot com slash Drama Darling
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: you can get Monday, Wednesday, Friday recaps over there. And Lissa,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: will you tell my darlings where they can find you?
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: Well, of course, And first of all, I just want
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: to point out please check Amy out. She you are
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: so talented and I always tell my audience I do well.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: I talk about you and I'm like, I think in amyisms,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: like today I was getting ready and I pictured you
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: saying you doing that impression of Martha Stewart, like about beautiful.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: Beautiful, is beautiful, very very beautiful.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: Amy does impression. She's hilarious, So please go check her out.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: But yeah, so you can check me out at your
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: bish therapist, on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and on YouTube, yeah
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: just have a little brain. And on YouTube, yes, a lot.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: It's a lot to do today. I mean we cover
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: a lot. Thank you so much.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: We're just delighted that we could do this for you guys,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: So thanks for listening to us.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be back together another time. So bye, guys,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: thanks for listening.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: Hie. Disclaimer posts are not intended to diagnose, treat, or
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: provide medical advice. Your bish Therapist is for entertainment and
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: informational purposes only. The podcast, my opinions, and posts are
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: my own and not associated with past or present employers,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: any organizations, Bravo TV, Gray Heart Productions, or any other
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: television network. The Information and Why podcast and on its
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: social media is provided for general informational purposes only and
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: is not intended to diagnose or treat. Please do not
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: act or refrain from acting based on anything you read, see,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: or hear on YBT podcast or associated social media. Communicating
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: with ybtvia email and or social media does not form
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: a therapeutic alliance. Melissa, operator of YBT, is unable to
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: provide any therapeutic advice, treatment, or feedback.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Drama Darling Drama, Darling Drama Darling