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Fatherhood & Autism: Harry Psaros’ Journey of Acceptance and Advocacy · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Love a Pittsburgher on the show today.
• 0:04
  Speaker B: Right.
• 0:04
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Inch Zones podcast. I have guests here. Harry Soros, who is an autism dad, a new author of a wonderful book on fatherhood in the conjunction of fatherhood and autism, and just a genuinely wonderful person who leans in big to life. Harry, thank you so much for being here today.
• 0:23
  Speaker B: It's an honor to be with you.
• 0:25
  Speaker A: Let's jump right in. Tell us about what was the, was the tipping point for you when your son Gus was diagnosed and how your life so beautifully changed because of Gus being just who he is.
• 0:38
  Speaker B: Sure, sure. You know, and I, I was like any other father, first time father. You don't know what to expect. You know, what, you know, and I had nothing to compare my son to. My wife start noticing abnormalities, things going on, you know, he wasn't looking you in the eye, wasn't interacting with his peers. And I'll fast forward to the final occurred and he had, he had, my son had attended a birthday party and he was obsessed with Hinges fans. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. And he was in with a lot of children and he was the outlier. He was over in a corner obsessively looking at a fan and stimming. He would bongo drum and you know, the preschool teacher grabbed my wife and said, listen, I've been trying to talk to you about this, but I love you and I love Harry, but I think he's on the autism spectrum. So it was the first, first shot, right? I, I couldn't believe it. You know, when she came home, she was broken. She was devastated.
• 1:30
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:30
  Speaker B: And it occurred to me that maybe I've been wrong. I, I've been really wrong. But we were fortunate to have a family member at the Cleveland Clinic in their autism center. Two weeks after that, we were there and, and my son was diagnosed pdd nos, Pervasive Developmental Disorder, which people are familiar with. And I, I will tell you, for me, it was amazing. First, it was complete shock because I, I'm always an all in guy and I always felt I was supportive, yet I was being belligerent, thinking of all the stress that my wife was under. And then, so I went through the machinations of anger and depression thinking about my son's life for about an hour. But I, I'm too lunatic. Type A. The second hour, coming back to Pittsburgh and I know again, we're both yinzers. Yes, I, I really, I, I felt like I was, you know, I was a boxer, a martial artist. I was in that Hyper adrenalized state where I realized how wrong I've been and what really, I'm Greek Orthodox, my cross right here. I have a strong faith. And I thought to myself, you know what? Change your mindset. God doesn't make a mistake. Doesn't make a mistake. This kid isn't broken. He was given to you this way. And when I say I was, I had goose. I still get it now.
• 2:48
  Speaker A: I mean, I just got it right now too.
• 2:49
  Speaker B: I mean, I'm getting it right now because I got, I, I start getting into hyper adrenalized state with goosebumps and going, I'm all in. I am, I am now. I went from fear to just desire to help this child. So what I would say to any parent, when you get to that stage, you have to understand something. God handed you a gift. He saw within you the strength to be able to help this child. And I thought, what's the next logical step? Go all in, support, or in my case, support my wife, my spouse, and do everything humanly imaginable to get that child and at least improve him. And I want to make a point. I didn't say change who he is.
• 3:31
  Speaker A: Right.
• 3:32
  Speaker B: Said improvement. I want to make sure there's a fine line.
• 3:34
  Speaker A: There is. There really is. This is not to cure. I always say this isn't to cure who autistic children are. This is to improve their quality of life and stand beside them as you lead them to that best version of themselves.
• 3:47
  Speaker B: Right? And it's in, I tell people it is a spectrum. You have, you have obviously everything from mild to severe. But what you owe that child is their parent, in my opinion is due diligence every single day. So if I can make an analogy, especially if there's a dad that catches this, the COVID of my book, you'll see the golden box and gloves I boxed. I'm a, again, a keto and I'm a third degree in tongue pseudo. And if it wasn't for bad shoulders, I'd be a master's belt by now. I still go fight, but the bottom line being you enter the dojo or the ring and you always have to have your guard up. Right? And I approached every day and it's, I talk about in my book called the 2% rule every day was, how can I get my child? How can I get Gus 2% better? There's probably one thing I could work on, the reason I use the boxing or fighting analogy, if I decided to take a day off or a week off, that was me mentally in the rain, putting my guard down. That happens in particular with tongshu do or especially Muay Thai. You're getting knocked out. You're going to get smacked across the head.
• 4:53
  Speaker A: Right.
• 4:53
  Speaker B: So I tackled every day, and so did my wife with, what can we do to improve this child? It might be a social interaction. It might be changing the way they eat. It might be activities of daily living, school, work, whatever it might be, you know, and I think that's imperative. So what I would again say to any parent, though, is, your child's not broken. They've been given to you as a gift. Accept that. Once you, you, you, you, you really internalize that acceptance. The next logical step is we're going to do everything possible within our financial means to help them.
• 5:31
  Speaker A: Right. And you know that I love your, the, the 2% idea because that, that sits right parallel to the inch zone mentality. You know, the, the reason that that word sort of just became, you know, rose to my head and heart was like, as a new parent, these doctor's offices, they're not hitting these milestones. Like, yeah, I'm not at a hundred percent yet, but I'm going to try every day to get 2% better. Why am I not celebrating those? And that, to me, is the inch zone. Why am I not celebrating that 2%? I think we should celebrate those two percents because that takes a lot of ignition energy to consciously choose that, especially for a child who categorically not fit, quote, unquote, for this world. And so that 2% is huge. It's huge.
• 6:14
  Speaker B: I, I, I always say don't in its human nature. We were in a, it actually ended up benefiting my son, but we were in a neighborhood with a lot of neurotypical jobs.
• 6:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:25
  Speaker B: So you're, you're familiar with Pittsburgh Two down. We have one. We have, we've supplied three starters for Duquesne soccer. We've had division, you know, football players, everything. You, you by nature, you would go, oh, my God, look where they're at. And then you'd have to go back in and go, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. He just tried a new textured food today. Exactly you, More words. He looked me. You know what? That's the celebration. We're not on their trajectory, we're on his trajectory.
• 6:50
  Speaker A: You know, and I, and I think what you and I know, it's innately human nature to compare. Right. I was reading a study that we, as humans, we unconsciously look for the mismatch. Like, we don't even mean to look for it. We just, as humans, are like, something looks different. Like, what is different of this situation? So that's how I feel. I'm like, oh, I'm the mismatch. My family's the mismatch. And at the same time, because of that, I'm seeing things like a beautiful ability to try something new. Taking a. Taking a lesson and finishing it completely. Like, I think about how many things that are taken for granted in the typical household of all typical children, they don't know to celebrate if they're only given this typical trajectory of a child. And, you know, I know that you and I both have typical and neurodiverse children. What a gift that is, because I get to see both. And I think my daughter, my typical daughter, has benefited tenfold from her siblings being exactly who they are.
• 7:49
  Speaker B: I will tell you, my. My youngest son is a freshman running back for Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania. Max is 5 foot 9, 190 pounds of muscle. He's a pit. Bu. Just that ACL surgery. So we're not playing yet. Yeah, but. But, you know, this is a. This is a really tough kid. And what my Gus has taught him is empathy. Looking at the world in a different way, and what I taught Max and I think Gus has learned from this in particular, is what I truly would call a comprehensive male. We're in a society where they feel that you have to wear your machismo and be obnoxious and be loud. No, no, no, no, no, no. You know, I explained to them that a male can be fiercely. And a male can have emotions because it's the duality of life. It's. It's who you are as a human. So I think society forgets that now. You know, everybody wants.
• 8:35
  Speaker A: It's that conditioning. It's that conditioning of, oh, yeah, and.
• 8:39
  Speaker B: I like a chad, you know.
• 8:41
  Speaker A: Well, I'm someone that really believes in the primal, like, masculine and feminine. I believe that, like, as a, you know, very primally feminine woman, there are things that innately I desire, which is, like, tend and befriend and to be tribal with other women to create community. And I can have some masculine tendencies of, like, no, I'm going to get this done. And there's nothing stopping me because I'm in the ring. And you could. And you, as a. As a very primal, very masculine father, can be all those things, but also emote, share community with other men, understand and lean in and not try to solve the problem, but just hear the problem and just create that sense of, like, we're in this together and that we're both in the ring. That's what we were talking about before we press record on this, is that you and I are both in the ring in different capacities. The critics on the outside get in the ring. I'll talk to you later.
• 9:29
  Speaker B: Right, exactly. You know, and I think, you know, especially what I've taught Max is, you know, again, he's this muscle bound jock and I said, you, you. And he understands this. You, you protect the weak. If you're wrong being done, you step up. And I think we need more of that, you know, in today's society. The other thing I'll throw out to you and especially if I can send it to help people if they're listening to this, we, we. I found in the area providing acceptance, love and support for special needs children. I'm on the board of directors for the Autism Caring Center. I've also seen parents go, well, so this is within the autism space. Go well, well, my Sally isn't where she's at or my Bobby isn't where don't. You know what if you, we all know this. If you meet one child on the spectrum, you meet one child. Now, what I will say is we are all part of a collective village. And what I stress in my book, it's the Greek concept of philotimo, and that it's good for the sake of doing good, knowing that you ask nothing in return. It's the most powerful word in the Greek language. So if you were part of this collective, this autism community, you're helping your child and help the next one. I say this all the time. I gave a speech in Fairmont, West Virginia about two weeks ago, and I said 1 in 36 children right now are being diagnosed. Don't leave here and do nothing. Be a player in life. Don't sit on the bench. Go and see if you can help them. Right now, someone's getting diagnosed as you and I are speaking.
• 10:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker B: Go disseminate your, your life events, your thoughts, help these people. And I, it was, it was interesting too. I said there were pockets in West Virginia. I said, are there, are there groups here, like collective units? You can get together, support groups. They're all kind of looking at each other. I go start one and start it. We did it. Don't sit on your hands. We need this as a community because the more of this occurs, the better it gets. And I think the more understanding is out there.
• 11:20
  Speaker A: Talk to me about your book. I'd love to just share more about that. With everyone that's listening, specifically the dads. I know, you know personally from my, my own experience in life that men and fathers digest and process diagnoses differently. So maybe share with me a little bit about when Nogass was diet was was told by the preschool teacher. But maybe how you and your wife process that differently and then how you came together in your mission to make us the best version of himself and then going on to write the book.
• 11:51
  Speaker B: Sure. Well, first of all, my book again is From Struggle to Strength, A Father's Journey with Autism and the Power of Hope and Positivity. And because that's who I am, it's in my DNA and I wouldn't disseminate that in the book. Look for the gold boxing. Boxing gloves.
• 12:04
  Speaker A: I love that.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: What, what I will tell you men, it's in our DNA, want to fix things. So if your child falls off a bike and scrapes their knee, we're the first one to go over and put a band aid. Autism is a weighty diagnosis. I think what I found is not in every scenario, but in most scenarios men are the most belligerent to accept it. And what I found is you could slice that up because now I'm hearing from them all over the world, which is great. You know, you have some where it's a machismo thing. There's no way that I have a child with that is less than not don't create that.
• 12:38
  Speaker A: I don't who I am didn't create that. Right.
• 12:41
  Speaker B: And I, I, I dealt with those fathers. And then you have fathers who are so stoic and wrapped up in trying to figure out how to solve autism that their stoicism is perceived as belligerence. But it's not. And I've dealt with both. But men handle things far like I, I, I do find God bless moms, the warrior moms like you, they're all in very quickly where the men are trying to wrap themselves around things. Now maybe I'm an anomaly. Once we did receive the diagnosis, halfway into that drive into Pittsburgh, I was on fire. I'm like, let's go. I'm ready to go. And I talked about so you're going to get a lot of Sun Tzu in my book, my martial arts background. But you know, Sun Tzu said know thy enemy.
• 13:26
  Speaker A: Right.
• 13:26
  Speaker B: And I was literally gripping the steering wheel going, autism is my foe. Like I going to help my son and make him the anomaly. I'm going to make, I'm going to make him stand. But you know, I will tell you again. When I talk about the differences. My wife saw everything going on. She's the hero in this story. And she. She had the. She had the battle, actually belligerent physicians that made her feel like an idiot.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker B: You've been there, I'm sure. Boy, let it go. She had that stress mounting where she knew something was off. No one would support her there. Then you had this guy with a thick skull.
• 13:59
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 14:00
  Speaker B: I tell people in the book I'm the type of guy that could have fun at an insurance seminar. Exactly. I said this all the time. Put me in a monastery and I'm partying with the monks.
• 14:08
  Speaker A: Right, right, right.
• 14:09
  Speaker B: In Iron City. We're from Pittsburgh.
• 14:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:11
  Speaker B: So you know, but I. Once it all came together, I realized how wrong it was. So what I'm trying to do with this book, and I will tell you this came from multiple speeches that I've done locally where mothers have come up in tears. 2014 Autism Notebook. I delivered about a 20 minute or half hour speech. I had a dozen mothers come up in tears. Imagine this and physically grab me and go, we need your help. And it led. Led to these conversations that led to a dinner, cups of coffee. Two of them that day. They're about 12 hung up on me. Those are the ones I felt bad for. And it happened again when I delivered a speech here for the Autism Parenting Center. Autism Caring Center. So I decided that I wanted to write one, a motivational book because it's in my DNA and I think my son is a North star of where you can go. He's college right now. But I also wanted to get through to those belligerent debt and don't get. And I always say, don't give me the macho bullshit. Pardon my language.
• 15:05
  Speaker A: Right.
• 15:06
  Speaker B: You're talking to a guy that's fought. I don't want to hear any of that.
• 15:08
  Speaker A: Right, right, right.
• 15:09
  Speaker B: To get past it. And that's why I talk about that acceptance piece is God doesn't make a mistake. Here's where we're at still. My kids, let's move forward and help them. I've been blessed with this book beyond measure. You and I just discussed. I'm receiving emails from around the world. It's received great acclaim. Veroca magazine, which is like Esquire overseas in seven countries. Just. I'm so honored. They. They named it Autism Advocacy book of the year.
• 15:34
  Speaker A: Amazing making that cover.
• 15:36
  Speaker B: I'm hearing from people all around the world and every dad has a story. And I eventually I'll get there potentially at My own podcast. But I, I want to have those discussions with dads.
• 15:45
  Speaker A: You know, that's the, that's the thing. You've been planted. I believe Harry to be one of those dads that rises to be the face of autism father. And the fatherhood journey of this. I believe in sharing and being vulnerable. But to that end, there's so many different ways that we experience life in general. Like Pittsburgh born and raised, proud Pittsburgh. But like I'm an East coast, like New York Manhattanite. When, when you boil it all down, like my heart and soul is in New York City. I know that my brand of motherhood, specifically autism motherhood is not going to be reflective of someone in Minnesota. It's just not. And that's okay. Their choice and how they choose to interact is going to look different than mine. But it still has, it's still, it's still, it still is laid out in front of them as an obstacle. That's what I always say. It's like the obstacle is the way regardless. But they're going to look different. The obstacles are going to look different. A mom that I did one on one peer counseling with in New York is paralyzed by even sharing with her tribeca moms that, that her daughter is not going to be going to that private school that all the other kids go to. And it sounds so cliche, but like, that is her truth. That was not what her reality was supposed to be. And yet it is. And we're going to work through that because that is true to her.
• 16:54
  Speaker B: Right, right. It's, it's incredible. And I, I, you think where we all kind of come together as one. To your point, I'm alluded to, type A out of Pittsburgh. There might be a very innately quiet individual out of Minnesota going through the same thing.
• 17:09
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 17:10
  Speaker B: But we all have to get to one point. And I talk about a lot in my book and that's unrelenting love. Yes. When I say that it's just that hyper focus every day to help that child, I will tell you, I've had to have a few blunt conversations too, because I absolutely have dads reaching out. And what you and many of the other prominent mothers have done is remarkable. And what I pointed out to these fathers, I said they are the alphas, not you.
• 17:36
  Speaker A: I said, right, right, right.
• 17:37
  Speaker B: They are stepping. If you want to be an alpha, you step up. God gave you the child to help them. So the fact that you're sitting there being belligerent, you're a beta male, you're.
• 17:46
  Speaker A: Actually Being beta, I mean, it sounds so silly, I know, but, like, you have to. I mean, I. And I love that you call that out because that is. It's like it's these resting on your laurels and saying, well, I should have been this, they should have been that. That's a little beta, right? Like, I don't mean to sound. I mean, and again, as like a. You know, like, that is a little bit like saying, like, woe is me. Like, I shouldn't have been handed this while you were. So I don't have to tell you when I almost.
• 18:10
  Speaker B: I've gone that far to lay that out and go, you're. You're framing yourself as a beta male to me. Then I said, if you can't step up, and they're like, whoa, you know, but sometimes you need to crack that toughest on. And then God bless them, a lot of them that I've done that to. But you're. You're right. What am I doing? I'm all in, you know, and that's what I want. And if I. If I do a podcast in the future, which you're kind of working on, I want to. I want to have those dads on and go. And I don't care if it's a therapy session, if they don't mind on air, but let's get through this. But I, you know, I think to your point, it's funny. We've seen God bless all of you, all these great warrior moms that are out there, and even the ones like, my wife is introverted, but she's a.
• 18:48
  Speaker A: Well, I'm sure. And what she's creating within her, it doesn't matter. It's like she's probably using exactly who she is to change her world. I know she is. I mean, she's very. You can know that and like that. That there's power in that. There's such power in however you navigate it.
• 19:03
  Speaker B: There is, you know, and I hope any mom watching this, I will quickly relay a story. My favorite two pages in my book are my description of my wife at the end of the longest chapter, the first chapter. My wife loves funny stuff, you know, Disney stuff. But she fell in love with Kill Bill, the series. None of them. I love it. I love.
• 19:20
  Speaker A: Right, right, right.
• 19:21
  Speaker B: But then it hit me one day is Uma standing there with the sword and the iconic outfit I just got. You know what I said? And my wife almost looks like Uma Thurman, which is crazy. And I. I said, you know what? That my wife of Mine, it's very quiet. We're a little bit opposite. But I said, I see it now. That's her. I said, my. That strength. My wife has that. The bride. So I talk about the similarities, and I said, where Uma has a Hattori Hanzu sword and killed about 800 people in the move. My wife amplified with just unrelenting love. That was her sword in protecting our son and helping. And it was funny. It hit me one day, I'm like, that's why my wife, who is a badass, ease herself in that character. And that's all of any. Any mom listening to this. It's all in. That's the way I see them.
• 20:09
  Speaker A: They're badasses, you know, and, you know, it doesn't matter where you are, what you're taking, what you're, what you're, what the possibilities are, what you desire. I always say, like, Gus and Max are your sons, and they are of you and your wife.
• 20:24
  Speaker B: But they are.
• 20:25
  Speaker A: But they are. You know, their DNA is your. Is in them. And I think about the things that you desire in life as Harry, your sons are part of that too. So they're like. Like you saying, like, you're sharing not just with your typical son, but with Gus as well. That, like, you can go out there and change the world and you can be big and loud about it and keep charging on, and it doesn't matter if that doesn't sit well with everyone else. It doesn't matter. The world's reaction to us being exactly who we are is none of my business. I always say that, like, people going, well, why does she. She travels so much with them. Isn't that exhaustible? Your reaction to me being the best version of mother to my very complex family is none of your business. It feels good to us. Travel, interaction, being in New York all the time, trying new restaurants, going to Broadway shows. We do it and I love it, you know? You know, and we're going to do it, and it's going to look a hell of a lot different, and we're going to get a lot of stairs along the way. That's okay.
• 21:23
  Speaker B: It's okay. I will. And I. I'll share with you a magical moment that occurred last Friday. So my son turned 21, like a. A week and a half ago. And what you have to understand is the juxtaposition. What I love and I would never pull Gus's autism. Gus cannot think negatively of anyone. He is this beam of light. Like when you so down the steps. It's not A dad. It's hi dad.
• 21:47
  Speaker A: He.
• 21:49
  Speaker B: And so when. When he graduated from high school, long story short of the high school had everybody write a note to the graduates. The person that made us all cry and I was stunned was my jock son, Max. So we had a hoopla for his 21st birthday, Gus. And we. We rented out half of celebrations there, a local watering hole. And I went to race the beer and we had about 50 people. And I said, I want to quote from your brother. And Max told him, never change who you are because you're such a beautiful person and you're so positive people gravitate towards you. So I quoted on. So I thought the beauty was. Here's this moment, Gus, he was smiling ear to ear the whole night. We had his friends, we had some neighbors, we had family.
• 22:30
  Speaker A: I love it.
• 22:31
  Speaker B: And I was able to quote from his own brother, brother that said, never change who you are because who you are is so special. And I said, you're a beaming light.
• 22:42
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 22:42
  Speaker B: Like I said, if we had more people like him, the world would be. Think of how caustic in general election right now, going on everything. It's crazy.
• 22:50
  Speaker A: I know. I. You know, there's so many theories out there about what neurodiversity and autism really is. You know, all the. The scientific parts. Sometimes I think, how lucky are Millie and Mac to not be conditioned by society to be completely unaware that they have to change who they are to fit in. Like, how damn wonderful is that? Like, Millie, the funniest thing she's doing now is it's Pizza Friday in our house. You know, we live in New Jersey. It's. It's Pizza Friday. And she cut. They. They come in from school. It's like 3:00. Millie drops her bag at the front, takes her shoes off, walks in the kitchen, the pizza's on the stove already.
• 23:28
  Speaker B: List.
• 23:28
  Speaker A: The thing grabs a slice of pizza, goes and sits down and hands me the remote control. And in my mind I'm like, she is so happy with even being able to do that. And when she hits me, that remote control, it's like, God damn it, put on my super Y right now. Because it's Friday and I got a long week and I. It makes me so happy because that's.
• 23:48
  Speaker B: Just who she is.
• 23:48
  Speaker A: She's like, I know that today is the day that we get pizza and watch TV in the family room. And that just makes her so happy. She has no concept of even wanting to change who she is.
• 23:59
  Speaker B: I so. Hancock County Board of Education. My mom was a teacher for 38 years in weird West Virginia. They had me speak, and the one teacher. So they read my book, and my son can't hear out his right ear. He has Tourette's, and he has what's called primary ciliary dyskinesia. It's a breathing issue. And then autism. So. But they go, we guess out of those four and we correct. If God came down, you would pull the autism. I said, no, No. I said, I give him his hearing in a heartbeat. I said, you know.
• 24:25
  Speaker A: Right.
• 24:26
  Speaker B: Because I don't. The one thing I regret I can't do is take him to concerts because it's. It's too loud.
• 24:30
  Speaker A: Right, right, right.
• 24:31
  Speaker B: I said, other than that. No, no. You know, and people were like, whoa. You know, shocked by that. But now, to your point, in a weird way, it's a superpower autism. Yeah, he's. He's. He's doing really well right now as a junior at Kent State. He's a happy kid. And we have a vision board set up, and we, we already went through the vision board. It's degree Ram truck, and it has to be.
• 24:54
  Speaker A: I love it.
• 24:55
  Speaker B: He's living for this Rams secondary degree, and then we get him a house and a wife, and I love it. We'll veer from that. And there are rigidity there. So any people can relate to this, because I said to him this summer, I think he has a runner's building, lost weight. He looks good. I said, gus, let me get you the dating site. Nope, nope. And he gave me the vision.
• 25:14
  Speaker A: He's like, no, we're going to get.
• 25:15
  Speaker B: I love it, you know, but it's just. No. And the teachers, look, they go, oh. And I start talking about everything he's brought to our life and everything he brings to the people around them, and I go, why would I change that? He is who he is.
• 25:27
  Speaker A: Right.
• 25:28
  Speaker B: Accept that. You know what I mean?
• 25:29
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, listen, thank you so much. This, this your journey as a. As a human, your journey as a father. Your. Your faith over fear mentality is completely transformative. I know, for so many fathers out there. And I, I, I'm so thankful that our paths have crossed. I'm so thankful that you're a Steelers fan, because I probably wouldn't have had you on if you weren't.
• 25:49
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Black and gold all the way, baby.
• 25:51
  Speaker A: I mean, listen, I don't know why they pulled fields, but we'll talk about that later. Well, that's a whole. That's a whole other podcast that this is that instance isn't made for. But Harry, thank you so much. Best of luck to you and I can't wait to see how you change the world with your own living.
• 26:02
  Speaker B: Thanks so much. And anyone that wants to connect with me, I'm on Facebook or Instagram, and when I say connect, message me. If you're having a hard time, reach out to me. I'm here to help.
• 26:11
  Speaker A: One on one connections. This is what it's all about. All right, for next time on the Instance podcast. Thank you, Harry.
• 26:17
  Speaker B: Thank you. It's great being here.