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James Webb's First Light, Galactic Anomalies & Space Surprises: #486 - Holiday Special 6 · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: With Fred and I taking a little bit of a break.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: We thought it'd be great to dig into the archives
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and see what sort of stories really captured the imaginations
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: of people around the world. Things like opening up moon
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: rocks fifty years after they were collected. Other things like
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the first photographs taken by James Web or the first
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: image of Sagittary Say Star. Those are the kinds of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: things we've been talking about over the years. So sit back, relax,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and enjoy archival episodes of Space Nuts.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Space Nuts.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Hi, there, thanks for joining us on another edition of
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunkley, your host, and
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: today on the program, we are going to be talking
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: about the big news of the week, probably the big
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: news of the year, and that is the first image,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: official image from the James Web space Telescope. It's only
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: been announced in the last hour or two since we
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: started recording, so it's fresh off the press or off
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the President's desk, whichever way you want to look at it.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: And Alex from New South Wales is apparently going to
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: ask a question about the size of galaxies. That's all
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: to come on this edition of Space Nuts.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Fifteen second guidance is internal ten nine ignition squench space
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: nuts or three two one space notes as.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: When actually bought it. Bill's good and joining us as
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: always is Professor Fred. What's an astronomer at large? Hello? Fred?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: How are you very well?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Thanks? Very excited with all that's going on?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Oh man, it's just crazy town at the moment. It
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: is the astronomy world.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Is agog a dog? That's right, It's not a word
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I get to use very often. Yeah, I like a gog.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's got to ring to it. Yeah.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: That we'll get to that in a moment. Of course.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: We have plenty to talk about and some audience questions,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, And you've got a studio guest, Fred,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: are you able to share this with our viewing audience?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: If you're watching this on YouTube, you get ready for
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: a surprise.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: To let everybody know that he still exists. There's Muskats
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: musk our family cart who normally doesn't come into the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: study here because it leaves copious quantities of hair wherever
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: he goes. But he's been asleep there in the chair
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: all morning and all most of the afternoon, so he's here.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: He's doing so much. He's doing his hats proud, because
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's what cats do best. No, it's good to have
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Muskat in the studio, right. Let us get down to business,
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  Speaker 1: and first on the agenda is this amazing image that
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: has been delivered by the James web Space Telescope. Spent
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of anticipation about what the first image would be,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of anticipation about how far reaching the James
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Webb Space Telescope will be in its capacity to provide
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: deep field imagery from far, far back in the universe,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and it has not disappointed.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: For it, not at all. That's right. So what we're seeing,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: and I would guess most of our listeners will have
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: seen this because I think it's going to be the
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: cover picture on the podcast for today. It really is
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: a beautiful image of a cluster of galaxies which has
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: always has a gobbledegook name. It is SMACs zero seven
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: twenty three. SMAC stands for Streaming Motions in Abell clusters
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and a Bell clusters are clusters that were cataloged by
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Georgia Bell, who I knew when he worked in Edinburgh
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: for a while. So cluster is a cluster of galaxies,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: but of course, like so many of these giant clusters.
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  Speaker 2: Its mass acts as a gravitational lens, magnifying and distorting
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  Speaker 2: the images of galaxies in the far distance behind it.
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  Speaker 2: And so this particular cluster shows up beautifully in you know,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the kind of colors that you would expect to As
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: you know, the gems Web telescope is an infrared telescope,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: excuse me. So it can look at the image in
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  Speaker 2: various infrared wavebands, and what you can do is sort
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: of equate those to visible light wavebands, so that things
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: that are in the far infrared show up as red
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: in the visible things that are you know, in the
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: mid infrared shop as white. Things that are in the
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  Speaker 2: near infrared, in other words, not much redder than red,
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  Speaker 2: they'll show up probably as blue. I'm not quite sure
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  Speaker 2: how they did the color balancing in this image, but
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  Speaker 2: they've got it absolutely right, because the nearby stars are blue,
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  Speaker 2: the relatively nearby cluster of galaxies is white, and the
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  Speaker 2: distant ones, as you might expect it, because they're highly
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  Speaker 2: red shifted, they look orange in color and again distorted.
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  Speaker 2: So we're looking back here, you know, it will be well,
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  Speaker 2: the nearby cluster is four point six billion light years away.
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  Speaker 2: The one beyond. It could be double that. I haven't
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  Speaker 2: seen the results of that, but it's a long way off.
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  Speaker 2: And what I think is most telling about this image.
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  Speaker 2: So this is being called Web's first deep field image,
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  Speaker 2: and you probably remember because we've talked about it before.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: The Hubble telescope produced a number of deep field images,
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  Speaker 2: deep being how far into the universe you're looking, how
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  Speaker 2: far into the past you're looking. And there was the
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: deep field the Hubble I can't remember what the ultra
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: deep field I think was the last one. There were
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  Speaker 2: a number in between as well, but they took weeks
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  Speaker 2: of time on the Hubble Space Telescope to build up
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  Speaker 2: the imagery. I remember the first one. They chose the
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: part of sky because there was nothing visible in it,
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  Speaker 2: and so they observed it for several nights or several
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  Speaker 2: days because it doesn't matter in the space telescope and
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  Speaker 2: finally got these deep fields, but it took up to
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  Speaker 2: weeks to get them. James web first deep field was
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  Speaker 2: obtained in twelve hours. So that's telling you that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we now have a tool that can beat the pants
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  Speaker 2: off the Hubble Space telescope, and that is no small achievement.
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  Speaker 2: And of course that comes about because it's a much
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: bigger telescope. The hubble is two point three meters tell uscoop,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: this is a six point five meter tell Us gun.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's really part of the reason why people
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: have become so excited in anticipation of what it is
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: capable of. And it's already showing it's true colors. Boomboom.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: You know the part that really blew my mind when
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I looked at the image and read the description from NASA.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about here. NASA says,
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  Speaker 1: this image covers a patch of sky approximately the size
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  Speaker 1: of a grain of sand held at arm's length by
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  Speaker 1: someone on the ground, and reveals thousands of galaxies in
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  Speaker 1: a tiny sliver of vast space. I know we always
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: talk about the vastness of the universe, but here we
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  Speaker 1: are looking at a distance of maybe four to eight
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  Speaker 1: billion light years and we're looking at something that only
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  Speaker 1: takes up space the size of the grain of sand
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: held at arm's length. I mean, my word, it just
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: it is awe inspiring, it really is.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. It blew the president away as well. I don't
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: know whether you saw. They're not a broadcast when this
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: was released. But President Biden, he could tell he was
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: absolutely captivated by all this. It's fantastic to see such enthusiasm.
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  Speaker 2: And of course, Andrew, this is only the first of many.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: By the time our listeners are watching and listening to this,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: if they watch on YouTube, we expect another tranch of
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: images to have been released. The kinds of things that
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: we're expecting to see. In fact, I think we've got
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: a fairly good list here. We'll see WASP ninety six B.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Now that is a planet, that's an extra solar planet,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: WASP ninety six B, So it's going to be really
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: interesting to see how that shows up. We're going to
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: see the Southern Ring nebula. That's a planetary nebula. We'll see,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: no doubt, a lot of detail in that. We're going
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: to see a cluster of galaxies, a very compact cluster
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  Speaker 2: of galaxies called Stephan's quintet, very well known, very beloved
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: of galactic astronomers or extra galactic astronomers, people who study
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the wider universe. These galaxies are physically close together and
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: all interacting with one another. And of course, an object
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: in our deep southern sky, the Karina Nebula the Eater
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Karina Nebula one of the most active regions of space
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: in our local neighborhood, so it be really interesting to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: see what's going on in that too.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and who knows, we might actually be focusing
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: our cameras on alien civilizations out there somewhere and we
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: don't even know it.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: We do it.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: That dovetails beautifully into our next story. So all I'll say,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: just to finish up with the James Thorpe Space Telescope
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: is watch this space as we as we've said, because
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: there's some exciting things to come. It's really I think
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: it's fantastic that they've done so well that it got
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: in place. Yes, it's had a couple of problems that
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: they've managed to overcome without any adverse effect, and now
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: it's ready to do its job. And yeah, who knows
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: what we're going to learn, Fred, who knows absolutely the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: stuff you're listening to and in some places watching Space
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Road Pace Nuts.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Now we'll go to Alex who's from a lovely it's
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: actually a sordid, nasty, horrible little place called Bellingen, and
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: you said, come on in. It's actually a glorious part
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: of the world. It's still Yeah, Alex is asking about galaxies.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: This is really good too.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Hi Fred and Andrew. It's Alex from Bellingen. Congratulations on
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: your three hundred shows. May there be many more? Okay,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: straight into my question. It's about the apparent size as galaxies.
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  Speaker 3: It's common understanding that the further away an object is,
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: the smaller it appears to our eyes. I guess you
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: could say the object's angular size reduces with distance. Just
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: look down a long straight road lined with power poles,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: and the poles appear smaller the further away they are.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: But I've heard this seemingly obvious relationship between distance and
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: the parent size does not apply to galaxies. Well, it
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: does to a point, But at some distance away from us,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: the apparent size of galaxies stops getting smaller and then
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: begins to increase the further from us they are. Have
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I heard that right? And if so, how the heck
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: does that work? Thanks and keep up the good work
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: all the best.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, you tell us Alex.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: That sounds bizarre, right, It does, doesn't it It's an
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: extraordinary thing, but it is actually true and it's it's
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: a real illustration of the fact that we live in
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: a universe that has peculiar properties. And it's basically the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: fact that we live in an expanding universe that causes
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: this phenomenon to happen. Because if you go through the mathematics,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and actually there are places on the web wait and
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: find some nice diagrams that show how this works. The
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: further away you look, you get to a certain point
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: beyond which things don't look any smaller, because because the
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: universe is expanding. That's the best way to put it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: So if you imagine, think about, you know, our Andromeda galaxy,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: our nearest neighbor, which is altogether something like two degrees
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: on the sky at its distance of about two and
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a half million light years away. So if you started
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: we envisit Andromeda, we know what it's like. We've all
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: seen pictures of the Andromeda galaxy, beautiful elongated spiral because
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: it's tilted over towards US two and a half million
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: light years away. If you took that galaxy further and
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: further away, of course, it would start looking smaller and
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: smaller because it's getting further away. The laws of physics
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: work pretty normally over small distances. But once you gets
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to a distance which is actually it's the distance varies
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: because it depends on your model of the universe, but
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I can give you the technical answer. It's at a
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: red shift of about one point five and that's sort
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: of a distance that's measured in billions of light years.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: We're probably talking about something like eight to nine billion
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: light years. Once it gets to that distance, it hits
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: a minimum size, which is about a thousandth of a degree.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Remember it's two degrees at its present distance, but it
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: gets down to this one thousandth of a degree mark,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and even though then you know, keep on moving it away,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: it doesn't actually get any smaller. In fact, it starts
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: getting a bit bigger. And that is totally bizarre, but
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: it's just about the way light behaves in an expanding universe.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Wow. And is this something that would be able to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: be demonstrated by the James Webspace exactly?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So I think we'll see, you know, we'll see physical
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: proof of this happening with the Games web Space Telescope,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: when they find that there are galaxies that don't seem
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: to get any smaller even though you're looking at them,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: further and further away.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Quite incredible. That's the same effect I have when I
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: hit a golf ball. It doesn't get smaller or smaller,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: it stays about the same size. Yes, she suggests, I'm
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: not really hitting it very far at all.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Never mind, if you hit it things older, Ilex, we'll
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: start getting bigger. Is coming back to you?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, thanks Alex, and hopeful as well in belligin,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I know you've been getting rained upon cats and dogs
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and camels and who knows what else in recent times,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: so hopefully it'll start to dry out soon.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Space Nuts, Hello again, Space Nutters. This is Anna from
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: Astronomy Daily, the podcast, stopping by again with a couple
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: of the important stories we've been following over the past week.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: Astronomers may have finally cracked a long standing cosmic mystery
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: about one of our galaxy's most intriguing features, the gd
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: one stellar stream. This ribbon like structure of stars which
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: stretches across our galaxies halo, has puzzled scientists for years
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: due to its unusual patterns of gaps and spurs that
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: seem to defy conventional explanations. A team led by researchers
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: at the University of California Riverside has proposed an exciting
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: solution involving dark matter, but not just any dark matter.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: Their research suggests these distinctive features were created by what's
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: called a self interacting dark matter subhlo, a dense concentration
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: of dark matter that behaves differently than the traditional cold
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: dark matter model we're familiar with. What makes this discovery
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: particularly fascinating is that the density needed to create these
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: unusual patterns in GD one is much higher than what
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: we'd expect from conventional dark matter theories. The research team
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: found that only a collapsing subhilo of self interacting dark
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: matter could achieve the necessary density to produce these distinctive features.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: We observe this isn't just about solving one mysterious structure
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: in our galaxy. If confirmed, these findings could fundamentally change
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: our understanding of dark matter itself. Remember, dark matter makes
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: up at eighty five percent of all matter in the universe,
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: yet we still know remarkably little about its true nature.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: This research suggests that dark matter particles might interact with
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: each other through a new kind of force, rather than
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: being completely invisible to one another as previously thought. The
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: team used sophisticated computer simulations to model how this self
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: interacting dark matter would behave, and the results matched perfectly
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: with the observed features in the GD one stream. It's
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: like finding the missing piece of a puzzle that's been
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: sitting on the table for years, suddenly revealing a whole
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: new picture of how our galaxy works. What's particularly exciting
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: about this discovery is that it opens up new ways
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: to study dark matter. By looking at stellar streams like
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: GD one, we might be able to better understand not
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: just where dark matter is, but how it behaves and
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: interacts with itself, something that could revolutionize our understanding of
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: the universe's fundamental structure. Next, a little mystery from China
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: that has set the space community buzzing. In a remarkable
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: display of technological advancement, China's space program has taken a
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: significant leap forward, conducting tests of five different rocket engines
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: all in a single day. The China Aerospace Science and
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: Technology Corporation or CASSE, carried out these tests at two
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: separate locations, Beijing and Laiwan County in Hebei Province. One
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: of the most notable tests involved a new hydrogen oxygen
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: engine designed for upper stage rockets. During its one hundred
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: second test firing, engineers gathered crucial performance data that could
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: pave the way for future missions. This wasn't just any
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: routine test. It's believed to be connected to China's ambitious
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: plans for crude lunar missions, specifically their Long March tenth
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: launcher program. But that's not all that was tested that
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: day In Beijing, engineers put three different engines through their paces,
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: a main engine, an upper stage engine, and a reaction
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: in orbit control engine. While specific details about which r
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: rockets these engines are destined for remain under wraps, it's
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: clear that China is developing multiple launch capabilities simultaneously. Perhaps
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: most intriguingly, the testing day included a methane liquid oxygen
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: engine at the Laiwan facility. This type of engine represents
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: the cutting edge of rocket technology, with several Chinese companies
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: already developing similar systems. It's worth noting that Cassie is
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: working on a particularly powerful version for their Long March
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: ninth Mega rocket project. These tests signal China's commitment to
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: developing a diverse range of rocket technologies, from deep space
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: exploration vehicles to heavy lift rockets. According to KSC engineers,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: this is just the beginning. They're planning to conduct even
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: more research and testing of various engine types for China's
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: major space projects, suggesting we might see several new Chinese
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: rockets debut in the coming year. This coordinated testing effort
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: demonstrates China's growing capabilities in space technology and their determination
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: to become a major your player in space exploration. With
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: these successful tests, they're laying the groundwork for increasingly ambitious missions,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: from lunar exploration to potential Mars voyages. And that's it
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: from me for this episode of Space Nuts. I'm anna
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: don't forget to visit Astronomy Daily dot io for your
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: daily fix of space and astronomy news updates. We're constantly
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: updating the site with the latest discoveries, mission updates, and
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: cosmic wonders until our next adventure through the Cosmos. Keep
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: looking up and stay curious about the mysteries that surround
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: us in space.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Space Nuts, you'll listen to the Spice Nuts podcast available
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, oh your favorite podcast player.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You can also stream on demand at bides dot com.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: This has been another quantity podcast production from nuts dot com.