Latest / Cristy M. Diaz Podcast Conversations from the Heart / Heart to Heart | Finding Comfort & Growth through Grief & Divorce with Natalie Caruncho

Transcript

Heart to Heart | Finding Comfort & Growth through Grief & Divorce with Natalie Caruncho · Cristy M. Diaz Podcast Conversations from the Heart

• 0:29
  Hi everybody. everybody and welcome to
• 0:30
  another edition of our heartto-he heart
• 0:32
  podcast. On today's episode, I've got a
• 0:34
  very dear friend of mine who is uh
• 0:36
  zooming in all the way from New York
• 0:38
  City. Her name is Natalie Kuruno and
• 0:40
  she's going to be discussing um her
• 0:42
  life's journey where she encountered
• 0:44
  profound loss and her life transitions.
• 0:47
  So, without further ado, let's jump
• 0:49
  right in today because we've got so much
• 0:51
  to talk about. And without further ado,
• 0:54
  hello Natalie. How are you?
• 0:56
  >> I'm good Christie. So nice to be here.
• 0:59
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:00
  >> Oh, well, thank you for opening up. Um,
• 1:03
  I'm so excited to talk to you today
• 1:06
  because I'm sure many people um will
• 1:10
  love to hear from you, especially those
• 1:13
  who were very touched by your mom. Uh,
• 1:16
  for those of you that don't know
• 1:17
  Natalie's mom, her name was Jerry
• 1:19
  Kuruno. And she had the um privilege of
• 1:23
  teaching so many of us for I don't even
• 1:26
  know how many years did Miss Jerry teach
• 1:28
  for Natalie. Miss Jerry was Miss Jerry.
• 1:32
  She over almost 30 years and before our
• 1:35
  years studios and she had her own studio
• 1:37
  for 15 years way back when. So it's been
• 1:40
  teaching. She touched so many lives um
• 1:42
  including me and many of my friends um
• 1:46
  in her dance years as a teacher at
• 1:49
  Guliver Prep. And um without further
• 1:52
  ado, this is her beautiful daughter
• 1:54
  Natalie who has so much of her mom in
• 1:58
  her. Just so much.
• 2:00
  >> Now, here we go.
• 2:01
  >> I know I'm I'm holding back tears. I've
• 2:03
  got my Kleenex back here, but it's okay
• 2:05
  because this is real, you know. And I'm
• 2:08
  just so grateful that you're here and I
• 2:11
  hope we honor her memory and I hope that
• 2:15
  she's shining down on us, which I'm sure
• 2:16
  she is, and smiling. Yeah. So, without
• 2:19
  further ado, please introduce yourself.
• 2:22
  >> Great. Uh, my name is Natalie. I'm Miss
• 2:24
  Jerry's daughter. Um, I'm living here in
• 2:28
  Williamsburg in New York. And um my
• 2:31
  whole career has been as an artist. I
• 2:34
  mean for as long as before I could walk
• 2:36
  I was dancing and my mom was my first
• 2:38
  dance teacher. I grew up dreaming
• 2:41
  wanting to be um a performer on
• 2:43
  Broadway. I got to do that which was an
• 2:46
  absolute dream come true in a show 10
• 2:48
  years ago called On Your Feet. Um, I did
• 2:51
  an acting program in college and got to
• 2:53
  do a couple first national tours and now
• 2:55
  I'm jumping back and forth. But, um,
• 2:57
  it's been really like the pleasure of my
• 2:59
  life to get to have something that I
• 3:02
  fell in love with as a kid become my
• 3:05
  career and my calling and the way I got
• 3:07
  to express
• 3:09
  my self. I really believe that the
• 3:12
  theater can be life-changing. Whether
• 3:15
  it's like taking people for two hours
• 3:18
  out of their lives and giving them
• 3:20
  laughter and joy or if it's mirroring
• 3:23
  back to people um something of
• 3:26
  themselves that they maybe haven't
• 3:28
  touched directly but through the art
• 3:30
  they can um that's been a profound part
• 3:34
  of my journey um performing. Uh I got
• 3:39
  married in 2016. And I know we're going
• 3:41
  to talk about uh divorce and things, but
• 3:44
  got married in 2016 to a wonderful guy.
• 3:48
  Um we,
• 3:50
  you know, had life together and um and
• 3:53
  we got divorced in 2023. Um separated
• 3:56
  and then divorced. Um the pandemic was a
• 4:01
  really challenging time I think on so
• 4:03
  many levels as an artist because the
• 4:05
  theater shut down. I think uh in my
• 4:08
  marriage because we were already sort of
• 4:10
  navigating some really tough stuff and I
• 4:13
  think for like for so many the pandemic
• 4:16
  just like highlighted and put such
• 4:19
  pressure on on on us for sure. Um the
• 4:25
  last couple of years have been like a
• 4:26
  particular doozy. I think like starting
• 4:29
  with the pandemic, uh my aunt Christy,
• 4:32
  who's an exceptional woman, um was
• 4:35
  diagnosed with cancer many years ago and
• 4:37
  she um stayed with us for so long. It
• 4:40
  was such a gift. But in 2022, she passed
• 4:43
  away, divorced in 2023.
• 4:46
  Um sort of started to build my life back
• 4:48
  up. and 2024, my mom got diagnosed with
• 4:52
  stage 4 pancreatic cancer. Just just the
• 4:55
  most unfair thing, particularly for
• 4:57
  someone who was still working full-time
• 5:00
  and was fine and healthy. Um, all things
• 5:04
  considered, and she,
• 5:08
  you know, fought beautifully and bravely
• 5:10
  and
• 5:12
  um passed away 2024 last year. Um,
• 5:17
  and so it's been a a time of like a lot
• 5:19
  of transition and a lot of learning and
• 5:22
  a lot of growth. I have two dogs. I've
• 5:24
  done it the end. You you've
• 5:28
  done it with so much grace.
• 5:30
  >> Oh, thank you.
• 5:31
  >> Which is a testament to the way your mom
• 5:33
  raised you and your grandmother who is
• 5:36
  also needing to be mentioned at this
• 5:38
  moment cuz she is a force.
• 5:41
  >> A force. She's incredible. 97 years old,
• 5:44
  you know, lost two of three daughters in
• 5:47
  the last couple of years. I mean, she's
• 5:48
  been through so much and she's, you
• 5:51
  know, still dancing.
• 5:53
  >> Still dancing. So, as you can see,
• 5:58
  Natalie has just suffered so much loss
• 6:00
  in such a short window of life.
• 6:03
  And yet, she is still out there smiling
• 6:07
  and, you know, dancing and instructing
• 6:11
  yoga. uh to others. And um part of the
• 6:15
  reason why I reconnected with Natalie
• 6:17
  once I learned about her mom's passing
• 6:20
  was that she published a journal entry.
• 6:23
  And when I read that, I immediately
• 6:26
  picked up the phone. I texted her and I
• 6:28
  said, "Natalie, if you ever want to
• 6:31
  discuss your life journey with us, I
• 6:33
  think that you've opened up so much with
• 6:36
  this journal entry and it's going to
• 6:38
  help and touch so many lives. So, do you
• 6:41
  have your journal today to share a
• 6:43
  little bit?
• 6:44
  >> I do. Yeah, I have that that article um
• 6:48
  article essay pulled up. I can share a
• 6:50
  little piece of it, please.
• 6:53
  >> Yeah. Great.
• 6:54
  >> Start the new year with heart and
• 6:55
  incredible flavor. Head to the Heartful
• 6:58
  Living website to secure your $39 bottle
• 7:00
  of freshed olive oil from the olive oil
• 7:02
  hunter. If you're willing to pay just $1
• 7:05
  to help cover shipping, this exclusive
• 7:07
  offer is yours. Fresh flavor, fresh
• 7:10
  year, fresh start. Let's pour more
• 7:12
  goodness into our days, one drizzle at a
• 7:14
  time. Um, we'll jump right in sort of
• 7:18
  towards the end. But, um,
• 7:22
  hold on, I need a Kleenex already.
• 7:26
  Um, in my experience, life gives us
• 7:29
  opportunities to grow and confront our
• 7:31
  stuff again and again until we either
• 7:33
  get it or decide to live with it. These
• 7:36
  opportunities may look like jobs, life
• 7:38
  events, people, or conversations that
• 7:41
  keep coming back around, like a record
• 7:42
  scratch we just can't quite get over. In
• 7:46
  2023, I got divorced. I didn't know
• 7:49
  where to go, what to say, or who to turn
• 7:51
  to. Even as things were getting hard, I
• 7:54
  didn't want to believe we could break.
• 7:57
  We'll be fine. We'll sort it out. I sort
• 7:59
  things out. And when we didn't, it was
• 8:02
  Shakespeareized heartbreak. heartbreak.
• 8:06
  At home, I'd collapsed to my knees,
• 8:08
  crying as everything in me still tried
• 8:10
  to hold it together. It was my first go
• 8:13
  with grief of lost love. The me I was
• 8:16
  with him, the future I thought we'd
• 8:17
  have. My mom would call. How are you, my
• 8:21
  beautiful daughter? I would stop in my
• 8:24
  tracks and pour into the phone. Anger
• 8:26
  and pain needed a place to release, and
• 8:28
  my dad caught me there. And still, I
• 8:30
  fought to keep it together, to move on
• 8:32
  and move forward. I started redecorating
• 8:34
  my apartment. I hosted dinners. I felt
• 8:36
  my world start to expand as life forced
• 8:39
  me to open up. Friends showed up. I
• 8:42
  wasn't alone. By New Year's Eve, my mom
• 8:44
  and I were celebrating the start of a
• 8:46
  new way forward. Owning our lives, being
• 8:48
  free, onward and upward. And then it was
• 8:51
  2024.
• 8:53
  My mom was diagnosed with stage 4
• 8:55
  pancreatic cancer in March. She died in
• 8:57
  July. I was with her every step of the
• 9:00
  way. It is time I will forever be
• 9:02
  grateful for. We were partners in this
• 9:04
  unchosen journey, dancing around the
• 9:06
  block, cooking and talking. She was
• 9:09
  extraordinary all the way through. I saw
• 9:12
  my sweet mom want to protect everyone
• 9:14
  she loved from the news, from the
• 9:16
  realities as we learned them. She also
• 9:19
  wanted to do it on her time, owning her
• 9:21
  life just as she had claimed in the new
• 9:23
  year. I respect that. I get part of my
• 9:26
  own desire for agency from her. In May,
• 9:29
  I heard myself tell my sweet mom, "We
• 9:31
  need to say yes when people offer to
• 9:33
  help. We cannot do this alone."
• 9:37
  Now I dance in the mornings. I engage in
• 9:40
  conversations about grief and how to
• 9:41
  live this one life. I keep the door
• 9:43
  open. I'm learning how to keep my walls
• 9:46
  down. I name what I'm feeling when I
• 9:48
  feel it. I don't hide from discomfort. I
• 9:50
  let it stay. I invite grief and
• 9:53
  discomfort to sit at my table because I
• 9:55
  need a moment with them to show little
• 9:56
  Nutty, you're safe. I've got you.
• 10:00
  I can pause there. There's more, but you
• 10:02
  can look at my substack and read it.
• 10:07
  >> You grieve to sit at your table. Yeah. I
• 10:10
  think that's been an image that I don't
• 10:13
  know where it came from, but I think
• 10:16
  there's this real desire
• 10:19
  from the world. I think because we don't
• 10:21
  have a lot of fluency in grief with
• 10:23
  ourselves or with each other in a way.
• 10:26
  Um, I think it comes out of a desire to
• 10:28
  not see the people we love sad. There's
• 10:30
  this thing about like, you know, um,
• 10:33
  your mom would want you to be happy,
• 10:35
  like move forward. Um, she would want
• 10:37
  you to live your life. And all of that
• 10:39
  is so true, but there's this focus on
• 10:41
  like moving on and not being too sad and
• 10:44
  not letting depression get you. And I
• 10:47
  think something I've learned is that
• 10:49
  grief is a doorway to her
• 10:52
  and it's a way to honor love. I mean,
• 10:56
  I've I read this somewhere like grief is
• 10:58
  love in a bigger coat and um
• 11:01
  >> like that.
• 11:02
  >> Isn't it sweet? Um it's sad, you know,
• 11:05
  but it's like I don't want to move on
• 11:07
  from the love with my mom in particular.
• 11:10
  It's like I don't want to move on from
• 11:12
  her. And so the more I sit with grief
• 11:15
  and allow myself to feel it, even when
• 11:17
  it looks like falling to my knees and
• 11:19
  weeping, you know, um it's like each
• 11:23
  time you go there, it gets a little
• 11:25
  lighter or I get a little stronger and
• 11:28
  learn how to carry it and therefore
• 11:30
  carry her and carry more of myself
• 11:33
  forward. And so I let it stay.
• 11:38
  >> I Wow. So, I want to address that, but I
• 11:44
  also want to back up a little bit.
• 11:46
  >> Absolutely.
• 11:47
  >> Because
• 11:48
  you were hit with so much at once,
• 11:50
  right? However, your divorce almost
• 11:55
  allowed you to be 100% fully present for
• 12:00
  your mom.
• 12:01
  >> Yeah.
• 12:02
  >> And who would have thought, right? So
• 12:05
  how did looking back is that do you
• 12:08
  consider that a gift almost?
• 12:12
  >> I mean in a certain lens I think my mom
• 12:14
  really needed me and I needed to be
• 12:16
  there for her. Um
• 12:20
  and so in a way because my ex and I were
• 12:24
  where we were in our relationship
• 12:26
  because things were hard. We would just
• 12:29
  say we're in a tough spot I think
• 12:30
  individually and then therefore
• 12:32
  together. um that I was able to um to
• 12:37
  just I mean I had nothing else to focus
• 12:40
  on except my mom. I was like fully fully
• 12:43
  fully present with her for her as her
• 12:45
  advocate. You know was that I then had
• 12:48
  time
• 12:50
  because I was then divorced and on my
• 12:52
  own. I
• 12:55
  had this time to sort of put myself,
• 12:58
  piece myself back together in a way that
• 13:00
  I really needed to be strong and present
• 13:03
  and in myself open and available, you
• 13:07
  know. Um, and I I reconnected with
• 13:10
  friends in a way that I I just hadn't
• 13:12
  realized how isolated I had gotten. And
• 13:15
  my friends were still there. My family
• 13:16
  was still there. Certainly.
• 13:18
  >> Of course. Of course.
• 13:19
  >> Right. Um, my
• 13:22
  >> So, you know what I'm trying to say,
• 13:23
  right? I'm trying to say that had you
• 13:26
  not had you been married still while
• 13:30
  your mom got it, you would not have been
• 13:33
  a,000% present for her because you would
• 13:36
  still have other responsibilities in
• 13:38
  your life that you would have to tend
• 13:39
  to. This allowed you to be a,000% freely
• 13:42
  with her.
• 13:44
  >> Absolutely. I mean,
• 13:48
  yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean the deep
• 13:51
  thing of going through something like
• 13:52
  that I think in partnership just to
• 13:54
  acknowledge the people out there that
• 13:56
  like yeah sure people out there and on
• 13:58
  my own desire to you know I I it was the
• 14:02
  most beautiful thing to be there with my
• 14:04
  mom um period you know there's no like
• 14:07
  caveat from that and there were moments
• 14:10
  of it that were really hard that it was
• 14:12
  like oh my god I wish there was you know
• 14:16
  like someone who would who was there for
• 14:18
  me you
• 14:19
  Um and I and I will say that so many
• 14:23
  people I including my ex showed up in a
• 14:25
  really like beautiful way um during that
• 14:28
  time to to hold me. It was it was a gift
• 14:31
  of that time too. See overuse the word
• 14:34
  gift but yeah
• 14:36
  >> Natalie looking back what was the most
• 14:37
  unexpected gift that came out of such a
• 14:39
  painful transition of divorce? H
• 14:44
  I think I got um I think I got myself
• 14:48
  back.
• 14:51
  I think, you know, and this isn't about
• 14:55
  the about my ex at all. I think my where
• 15:00
  I had gotten in that time was a place
• 15:03
  that felt um really diminished in
• 15:05
  myself. like I wasn't taking up space in
• 15:09
  the way I know myself to and I had sort
• 15:13
  of left myself behind and that's on you
• 15:16
  know that's life but I think the the
• 15:20
  gift I got was um was more me and I felt
• 15:25
  it in a really tangible way
• 15:28
  in 2023
• 15:30
  um sort of in post
• 15:33
  um felt myself waking more days
• 15:37
  recognizing that more of myself was
• 15:40
  present.
• 15:43
  >> I love that. That's beautiful.
• 15:45
  Let's talk a little bit about your mom's
• 15:47
  cancer battle if that's okay with you
• 15:49
  and how you b you balanced being a
• 15:52
  daughter and a caretaker because you
• 15:54
  were with her every step of the way.
• 15:57
  What did you learn about yourself while
• 15:58
  caring for your mom through her cancer
• 16:00
  journey
• 16:01
  >> at a time where you were finding
• 16:03
  yourself again post divorce? Yeah, I
• 16:06
  think um
• 16:08
  I think my strength and my resilience
• 16:12
  um
• 16:14
  I um
• 16:18
  I think when you go through something
• 16:19
  like the pandemic, like divorce, there's
• 16:22
  this big part that feels um like, "Oh my
• 16:25
  god, I failed and I'm weak and I didn't
• 16:28
  fix it and I didn't I wasn't able to and
• 16:30
  all the things that you lose when you
• 16:32
  lose that like partnership."
• 16:34
  um a way to vision forward. I just I
• 16:37
  felt really there was a part of me that
• 16:38
  was just like, "Oh god, I you know, I
• 16:40
  lost or something."
• 16:43
  And last year with my mom,
• 16:46
  um I felt so capable and energized and
• 16:52
  able to hold myself to reach out for
• 16:56
  help is something that I I feel like I
• 16:58
  learned last year and continue to learn.
• 17:00
  Um, but I was really able to to show up
• 17:04
  and I think um and advocate for her um
• 17:08
  and have tough conversations and hold
• 17:11
  really tough stuff with um a sense of
• 17:16
  um lightness and a and a focus towards
• 17:19
  life. I think we didn't spend four
• 17:22
  months preparing
• 17:25
  for her death. It was like she stayed
• 17:29
  really related to life.
• 17:31
  And I think that is um
• 17:34
  so incredibly important and is something
• 17:36
  that I now I'm like, "Oh, that is like
• 17:38
  maybe the most important thing whether
• 17:40
  you're in a cancer diagnosis or not is
• 17:42
  to stay really focused on the fact that
• 17:44
  we get to live."
• 17:47
  I Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And
• 17:50
  that's also a testament to how strong
• 17:53
  your family unit is also because um it's
• 17:57
  clear that these experiences shaped and
• 18:00
  only strengthened your family bond
• 18:02
  because your brother was your tag team.
• 18:06
  >> Yeah.
• 18:06
  >> With you taking care of your mom in
• 18:08
  those four months.
• 18:10
  >> Yeah.
• 18:10
  >> And every time you guys would, you know,
• 18:12
  share information or post something
• 18:15
  about your mom, you guys were always
• 18:17
  this strong duo.
• 18:20
  Um, I want to go back to your
• 18:22
  grandmother because your grandmother is
• 18:23
  also a force, but she had just lost her
• 18:27
  first daughter.
• 18:28
  >> Yeah.
• 18:29
  >> She was At this point, you guys knew
• 18:32
  that Miss Jerry's cancer diagnosis was
• 18:35
  terminal. How did you hold your
• 18:39
  grandmother up while you yourself are
• 18:42
  struggling knowing that your mom's in
• 18:44
  the state she's in?
• 19:04
  Yeah, I think um I mean she is a force
• 19:11
  and she lived with my mom for like 25
• 19:14
  years. they were, you know, housemates,
• 19:16
  roommates, not roommates, but, you know,
• 19:19
  um I think there was a big part of it
• 19:22
  because some of it was really, I think,
• 19:24
  confusing. Not that she didn't
• 19:26
  understand what was happening by any
• 19:28
  means, but it's just a lot to hold. And
• 19:30
  to your point, she had just gone through
• 19:33
  that. And I think looking at my mom, it
• 19:35
  just felt unimaginable.
• 19:37
  You know, she was so well.
• 19:41
  like it's still sometimes for me even
• 19:43
  I'm like what do you mean like what do
• 19:44
  you mean this happened you know um and
• 19:47
  to someone so kind and it just some of
• 19:49
  it just like doesn't make sense and so I
• 19:52
  think
• 19:54
  I think there was a part of it with my
• 19:56
  grandmother that was making her part of
• 19:58
  the solution like I remember talking to
• 20:00
  her a lot about you know um like grandma
• 20:04
  we got to make sure that mom stays
• 20:06
  positive you know
• 20:09
  like she's going to be okay. You know,
• 20:12
  we just have to get her through this
• 20:13
  next chemo and keeping her focused and
• 20:16
  sort of bite-sized.
• 20:18
  Um,
• 20:20
  instead of focusing again on the on the
• 20:23
  terminals of it.
• 20:24
  >> Sure.
• 20:25
  >> Because a big part of it was to see how
• 20:27
  much time we could get. And the
• 20:28
  oncologist was always I mean, what a the
• 20:32
  team at Baptist was
• 20:34
  incredible. Every nurse, every doctor,
• 20:37
  they were like angel human beings. every
• 20:39
  one of them. Um, and my mom kept all of
• 20:42
  their names on her bones.
• 20:44
  >> Of course she did.
• 20:45
  >> Yeah. And then made them cookies
• 20:47
  >> of a horse. She did.
• 20:49
  >> Yeah. But it doesn't surprise me.
• 20:51
  >> Yeah. But you know, everyone there was
• 20:54
  like, you know, we got to keep her again
• 20:56
  related to life and staying in the hope
• 20:58
  of it. Not out of some like disillusion,
• 21:01
  but that if patients are related to
• 21:04
  life, they stay alive, you know. And
• 21:07
  it's at that time it was like any moment
• 21:10
  any extra time we could have with her
• 21:13
  is important. So I think I'm glad we
• 21:15
  took care of my grandma until it was
• 21:17
  time to talk to her about it.
• 21:20
  You know
• 21:23
  how it
• 21:27
  is. You know she's great. I mean she um
• 21:30
  I mean even more change I think. and she
• 21:32
  lived in Miami for 60 plus years and now
• 21:35
  she's living with my aunt Kathy who
• 21:38
  lives in Atlanta and she spent time
• 21:41
  there and you know in the past many many
• 21:43
  many years but it's different to leave
• 21:45
  the place that you feel is your home and
• 21:47
  I think that's
• 21:50
  you know a whole other thing that she's
• 21:52
  had to navigate
• 21:55
  as a 97 years old it's just
• 21:59
  >> yeah she I just keep repeating that
• 22:02
  she's a force because I just remember
• 22:04
  her when we were in high school. She was
• 22:07
  at every one of our performances, not
• 22:09
  just attending as an audience member.
• 22:12
  She was building sets. She was sewing
• 22:14
  costumes. She was doing ballet buns. I
• 22:16
  mean, she was for all intents of
• 22:19
  purposes our backstage manager, like our
• 22:22
  house mom in the backstage for every
• 22:25
  single thing.
• 22:26
  >> Yeah. I mean, and as the years went on,
• 22:28
  she probably did like less and less of
• 22:30
  that, but was always a row like
• 22:33
  traveling, chaperoning.
• 22:36
  And and you know, that's how I remember
• 22:38
  your family, Natalie. I remember not
• 22:40
  just Miss Jerry, our dance teacher, our
• 22:43
  musical theater instructor. It was Miss
• 22:46
  Jerry, mother of Natalie. And Natalie is
• 22:49
  also in the show. And so is her brother
• 22:52
  JJ. And so is the grandma. And so is
• 22:55
  your aunt. and so was your cousin. Like
• 22:57
  it was a family affair always. Um which
• 23:03
  you know it's a testament to your family
• 23:05
  and and the strength and the unity that
• 23:07
  you have that you all have together. Um
• 23:11
  and so Miss Sherry herself just touched
• 23:15
  so many lives.
• 23:16
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things
• 23:18
  too is that she it's like if she met
• 23:20
  you, her arms were extended and like
• 23:23
  wrapping themselves around you before
• 23:26
  you know.
• 23:26
  >> Yeah. I had the um pleasure of seeing
• 23:30
  her I think it was two years ago.
• 23:34
  >> Mhm.
• 23:36
  uh three years ago when we uh all went
• 23:40
  back to campus
• 23:42
  for a unexpected 20 something reunion
• 23:47
  >> and we walked into the dance room and
• 23:49
  she was she started crying. She's like,
• 23:50
  "What are you guys doing here?"
• 23:53
  Said, "Hate to see you."
• 23:56
  Um I'm so grateful that I had that
• 24:00
  moment in time to just give her a hug.
• 24:03
  >> Yeah. Yeah. She loved everyone and then
• 24:06
  she just like loved her students like
• 24:08
  they were her kids, you know.
• 24:10
  >> Yeah.
• 24:11
  >> I mean, my brother and I really like
• 24:12
  shared her in that way.
• 24:14
  >> Um, and when we when at her service at
• 24:20
  her memorial, which was a celebration of
• 24:22
  life, which is what she wanted.
• 24:24
  >> Oh, yeah.
• 24:26
  >> It was every single student, every
• 24:29
  single colleague she's ever had. It was
• 24:31
  shouldertoshoulder.
• 24:33
  um because she touched so many lives. So
• 24:37
  something that I found very interesting
• 24:39
  that you mentioned to me is after the
• 24:42
  service, you went out with a group of I
• 24:47
  guess uh her students and you were
• 24:50
  shocked to see how when you all sat
• 24:53
  down, everybody kind of tiptoed around
• 24:57
  talking about her because I guess they
• 24:59
  were scared that it was going to make
• 25:01
  you sad. But on the contrary, the fact
• 25:03
  that you didn't bring her up made you
• 25:06
  sad. Can we talk about that a little
• 25:08
  bit?
• 25:09
  >> Yeah.
• 25:11
  Yeah. It was definitely the first This
• 25:13
  was like the first um time I had
• 25:16
  encountered something like this. It was,
• 25:18
  you know, just after she passed. Um it
• 25:21
  was like the a group of the Sundancers,
• 25:23
  like skirts of the dance team, you know,
• 25:25
  it's like my people,
• 25:26
  >> the extended camp. Uh, and since we were
• 25:29
  all in town, we all went to dinner. And
• 25:31
  it was beautiful. It was like wonderful
• 25:33
  to reconnect,
• 25:34
  but part of it was to to be together
• 25:37
  after Miss Jerry's passing, like after
• 25:40
  the celebration of life, like it was
• 25:41
  sort of centered around that. How could
• 25:43
  it not? And then, you know, dinner was
• 25:45
  happening and and we just like never
• 25:47
  talked about her. And after dinner, a
• 25:50
  couple of us stayed, you know, behind
• 25:53
  and and and one of them said to me, you
• 25:56
  know, I I wanted to say something about
• 25:57
  your mom, but I don't want to make you
• 25:59
  sad. You know, I don't want to make you
• 26:01
  cry. Uh
• 26:03
  and it like I like burst out of me. I
• 26:06
  was just like, well, you have to talk
• 26:07
  about her. You know, I feel like, you
• 26:10
  know,
• 26:12
  I feel like we invited her into a room
• 26:14
  and instead of letting her be here, we
• 26:16
  put her in the hall and closed the door.
• 26:18
  You know, it's like if you don't mention
• 26:20
  her, then she can't come in. Um, and
• 26:24
  then it doesn't acknowledge
• 26:27
  uh what's like real for so many of us at
• 26:29
  the table, not just me, you know, but
• 26:31
  certainly for me in a way that I just I
• 26:33
  didn't know how. And this still happens
• 26:36
  sometimes.
• 26:37
  um where sometimes it's like it's so
• 26:41
  present for me that
• 26:43
  I don't know how to pretend like it's
• 26:45
  not because again it's this idea of like
• 26:48
  I mean as if I was literally like taking
• 26:50
  my mom and putting her outside. Um
• 26:54
  but it was a after that moment it was
• 26:58
  like the we had like un untightened a
• 27:02
  valve because then everybody wanted to
• 27:03
  talk about their memories with her and
• 27:05
  it was like oh my god I can breathe.
• 27:08
  >> Doesn't it make you happy when people
• 27:11
  come up to you and want to talk about
• 27:13
  your mom? Because I lost my grandma 5
• 27:16
  years ago and for me that was the most
• 27:18
  unimaginable loss to date. Hands down. I
• 27:22
  love talking about her. Even if you see
• 27:24
  me balling, when somebody comes up to me
• 27:28
  and tells me, "Your grandma was amazing.
• 27:31
  I remember when your grandma did this. I
• 27:33
  remember when we went here. I remember
• 27:35
  when she took me here." It gives me so
• 27:37
  much happiness to know that she left a
• 27:41
  stamp on that person's life. Don't you
• 27:43
  feel the same way?
• 27:45
  >> 100%.
• 27:47
  100%.
• 27:50
  So why do you think society has put such
• 27:52
  a taboo on naming grief and mentioning
• 27:57
  grief and and and mentioning those we
• 27:59
  have lost? Why do you think that is?
• 28:01
  >> I mean I think it's really hard to see
• 28:04
  the people we love sad. You know I can
• 28:08
  think of myself I mean I will now be
• 28:10
  better about this because of the grief
• 28:12
  and loss that I've experienced with my
• 28:14
  mom being someone who's gone through a
• 28:16
  divorce. you know all of us in a
• 28:18
  pandemic you know those are all you know
• 28:20
  shared experiences and I amum I know I
• 28:23
  am sure I couldn't name who but I am
• 28:26
  sure I have been across from someone
• 28:29
  who's someone passed and not said
• 28:32
  anything for fear of offending making
• 28:35
  that person sad I'm sure I've tiptoed
• 28:38
  and now what I know is true is that like
• 28:42
  be brave and don't tiptoe like ask like
• 28:46
  what was their name.
• 28:49
  Are you sad? You know, like just name
• 28:51
  the thing like when people say sort of
• 28:53
  like, you know, oh, how are you? As if
• 28:55
  nothing has happened. I'm like,
• 28:58
  you know, but I think I big part of it
• 29:01
  comes out of not wanting to go towards
• 29:04
  the darkness. The darkness of um grief
• 29:08
  is this like dark thing. It or it can
• 29:11
  feel like, you know, we're going towards
• 29:13
  depression. Like why would you choose to
• 29:15
  focus on something negative? But I think
• 29:18
  it's a real misunderstanding about what
• 29:21
  grief can be. It's love.
• 29:26
  It's love.
• 29:27
  >> Absolutely. People that are
• 29:29
  >> You wouldn't be sad if you didn't love
• 29:32
  fiercely.
• 29:33
  >> I mean, it's a I mean, the the size of
• 29:37
  my grief is the size of my love.
• 29:41
  entertain. I think that fits loss of a
• 29:45
  family member, loss of a friend, loss of
• 29:47
  a husband, divorce, any if you show
• 29:52
  signs of sadness, there was love there.
• 29:55
  >> Yeah.
• 29:56
  >> As if not it wouldn't hurt.
• 29:59
  >> Yeah. I mean, it shows that you like
• 30:01
  wanted things and that you had a
• 30:03
  connection with somebody and that you
• 30:06
  loved deeply. I mean I think most
• 30:07
  important that there was like a heart
• 30:09
  open you know that
• 30:12
  um
• 30:14
  I think culturally though I think
• 30:16
  there's a or society or you know
• 30:19
  whatever the right word is I think it's
• 30:21
  uh I think you know we want to be
• 30:25
  focused on like the things that we're
• 30:26
  doing and the the projects we're
• 30:28
  creating and forward forward forward
• 30:30
  life life life or work work or whatever
• 30:33
  it is that we sort of like hyperfocus on
• 30:35
  and I think it's hard right to
• 30:39
  sort of sit with, you know, like what's
• 30:41
  not okay and like can we talk? I also I
• 30:45
  agree with you and I also think that
• 30:46
  when you sit with it and you listen and
• 30:52
  you're open to it, you'll find reminders
• 30:55
  of that person and everywhere. And
• 30:59
  you've had that experience of symbols
• 31:02
  >> and you know it's your mom, right?
• 31:05
  You want to say what they are? Yeah. You
• 31:07
  know, it's funny sitting here. It's like
• 31:09
  then these are looking at it. I'm
• 31:11
  looking at it on my screen. I'm like,
• 31:13
  there she is.
• 31:16
  Um, yeah. My mom is like has become like
• 31:19
  sunflowers. They're everywhere. And it's
• 31:21
  her. She wanted them at the celebration
• 31:24
  of life. Her celebration of life. They
• 31:25
  were everywhere. And now it's this
• 31:27
  really beautiful thing. It's like I'll
• 31:29
  get text messages and photos of like, I
• 31:32
  saw sunflowers like your mom's here.
• 31:34
  mysterious
• 31:35
  here. Um, and it's funny with signs and
• 31:39
  symbols and all that kind of stuff. It's
• 31:41
  like you could choose to say it's not.
• 31:46
  You could, but like why? you know, my
• 31:50
  mom said to me, um, we were talking
• 31:53
  about life and things she wanted for me
• 31:56
  and, um, and she was like, "Natalie, I
• 32:00
  won't be here, but I'll be everywhere
• 32:02
  and you'll know it's me, you know, and
• 32:05
  so anytime I see something, you know,
• 32:07
  sometimes I'm talking about something or
• 32:08
  I'm thinking something and even here in
• 32:10
  the apartment, the sun will sort of
• 32:12
  brighten a little and um, if my mom pops
• 32:15
  into my mom into my mind, I'm like, "Oh,
• 32:17
  that's her.
• 32:19
  You know, or she would be a sweet
• 32:21
  breeze. Not any breeze,
• 32:24
  but a sweet one.
• 32:26
  >> Yeah. And every once, you know, the wind
• 32:28
  blows a lot, you know, but every once in
• 32:30
  a while I'm walking and there's
• 32:31
  something in the air and she comes to my
• 32:32
  mind and I'm like, "Oh."
• 32:35
  And certainly sunflowers everywhere.
• 32:38
  >> I had forgotten about the sunflower
• 32:40
  being on your wall from the last time we
• 32:44
  had spoken until right now. So now I
• 32:47
  just got confirmation that she's with us
• 32:49
  and I'm I'm happy about it.
• 32:51
  >> Yeah,
• 32:53
  >> I'm a big believer in sign as well.
• 32:56
  >> Um,
• 32:57
  >> beautiful. Why you know stay open to it,
• 32:59
  you know?
• 33:00
  >> Yeah.
• 33:00
  >> Given each.
• 33:02
  >> Absolutely.
• 33:04
  So you mentioned you invited grief to
• 33:06
  your table, but in doing so you you
• 33:11
  actually literally invited people to
• 33:13
  your table. Can you share how your
• 33:16
  family and friends coming over for
• 33:18
  family dinner helped you overcome the
• 33:21
  first year of grief?
• 33:22
  >> Yeah, that was very well done.
• 33:25
  >> Well, thank you. Was like um you're
• 33:29
  listening to the Heartto-Heart podcast
• 33:30
  with Christy Diaz for Heartful Living,
• 33:33
  where stories, connection, and intention
• 33:35
  guide everything we do. Interested in
• 33:37
  partnering with us? We're always open to
• 33:39
  collaborations that align with
• 33:40
  intention, creativity, and community. If
• 33:43
  you feel your brand is a match, we'd
• 33:45
  love to connect and explore what we can
• 33:47
  create together. And now back to
• 33:49
  listening.
• 33:50
  >> Yeah, it's excellent. I think, you know,
• 33:52
  the first family meal I did um was like
• 33:57
  the December I had redecorated the
• 34:00
  apartment and really needed people to be
• 34:03
  here uh to fill these walls with new
• 34:06
  energy and um and so this tradition of
• 34:10
  like family meals like once a month um
• 34:14
  has become a thing and the my favorite
• 34:18
  part of it is how like imperfect it is.
• 34:21
  and how people end up gathering around
• 34:23
  the kitchen like family and um the
• 34:26
  invitation always no matter who's here
• 34:28
  is like you know toa so like look around
• 34:32
  and grab what you need and you're when
• 34:34
  you're here you're home and and the and
• 34:38
  to hear people the next day or get a
• 34:40
  text or even during dinner or something
• 34:42
  if somebody says like
• 34:45
  Natalie
• 34:47
  I feel like home or they exhale and you
• 34:50
  know we end talking about things that
• 34:52
  are vulnerable or heartopening or
• 34:54
  something here at the table like that is
• 34:57
  you know that is the best thing and it's
• 34:59
  been a beautiful
• 35:00
  >> thank my family to feel my friends come
• 35:04
  you know for them to prove they don't
• 35:07
  have to prove to me anything but it's
• 35:09
  like validating that you're not alone
• 35:13
  you know
• 35:14
  >> I've been kind of gathering mental
• 35:17
  images if you will in my head that if
• 35:20
  Heartful living was in a dictionary. I
• 35:24
  think the best way to express it would
• 35:26
  be in photographs and images. And what
• 35:28
  you just said, the imperfection of these
• 35:32
  casual family dinners would be one of
• 35:34
  the images I would place in the
• 35:35
  dictionary because you're living
• 35:38
  authentically. It's raw. It's about the
• 35:41
  moment. It's messy, but it's life. And
• 35:44
  it's so beautiful. And there's nothing I
• 35:48
  love more than an in in uh like an
• 35:52
  intimate casual dinner around my island
• 35:56
  where the table's not set
• 35:58
  >> where people are just, you know, hanging
• 36:00
  over the island.
• 36:01
  >> It's the best.
• 36:02
  >> Munching with their fingers, you know,
• 36:04
  finger foods and just having a great
• 36:06
  time and opening up and being
• 36:08
  vulnerable.
• 36:10
  It's the best
• 36:11
  >> on the really like there's nothing I
• 36:14
  love same like the people in the kitchen
• 36:16
  sort of packed in together depending on
• 36:19
  people here it's the best and then the
• 36:21
  the other part of it I think which has
• 36:22
  also been fun and that is in a way a
• 36:26
  lesson be before my mom passed but and
• 36:29
  but certainly after it's like also don't
• 36:32
  wake wait to make it special and to make
• 36:34
  a fuss my mom always wanted to like you
• 36:37
  know if we had champagne I mean, it was
• 36:40
  like, well, we we'll pull out the
• 36:41
  bubbles. It's like, well, why? It's a
• 36:43
  Thursday. Like, no. Well, we're
• 36:45
  celebrating being together, you know?
• 36:48
  So,
• 36:48
  >> I love that.
• 36:49
  >> Yeah.
• 36:50
  >> Another thing that um just popped into
• 36:52
  my head, and it's not so much your
• 36:54
  story, it's really your brother's story,
• 36:57
  but he mentioned how your mom made such
• 37:00
  a big deal about his birthday, and it
• 37:02
  was their anniversary.
• 37:04
  >> Yeah. Oh, I know. So sweet. I love that.
• 37:07
  and they would celebrate their
• 37:09
  anniversary. Yeah. That's so beautiful.
• 37:12
  And it's just, you know, I always tell
• 37:14
  my kids, by the way, and I took that
• 37:16
  from your mom after I heard that story.
• 37:19
  I always used to say happy birthday to
• 37:22
  myself on my kids' birthdays because I'm
• 37:25
  the one that brought them into this
• 37:26
  world. I deserve some attention, too.
• 37:29
  And that was something your mom taught
• 37:31
  me to do when she would always make a
• 37:33
  very big deal about your brother and
• 37:35
  their anniversary. Yeah. Well, and for
• 37:38
  her it's like I mean she always wanted
• 37:40
  to be a mom. So like you know when I was
• 37:42
  born I made her a mom and when my
• 37:44
  brother was born she was a mom again.
• 37:47
  You know what I it's like so in that way
• 37:50
  it's like yeah I'm celebrating that I
• 37:51
  get to be your mom you know.
• 37:54
  >> Yeah. And she made a massive to-do about
• 37:58
  it and it's a big deal and I love that.
• 38:01
  >> Yeah.
• 38:01
  >> It's so great. So, let's shift a little
• 38:04
  and let's talk about Courier Natalie
• 38:06
  right now.
• 38:07
  >> Yeah. Well, you're a bad you're a
• 38:10
  badass. Let's start right let's just
• 38:12
  start right there. You're a badass. And
• 38:15
  when we were growing up, I had no doubt
• 38:18
  in my mind that you would be in New York
• 38:21
  living your dream on Broadway, on the
• 38:24
  theater, on stage. I always knew it.
• 38:27
  >> Thank you.
• 38:29
  So, when you came to Miami on on your
• 38:33
  feet and I found out through I don't
• 38:36
  know if it was the alumni news or if it
• 38:38
  was I don't know how we found out you
• 38:40
  were coming. I bought a ticket that
• 38:42
  night to see you. That's amazing.
• 38:46
  I I was like, "Of course she is." But
• 38:48
  now the actress is shifting to associate
• 38:53
  choreographer and I can't help but think
• 38:56
  that that's your mom.
• 38:59
  She loves it. Although she was always
• 39:00
  like, "Get yourself back on stage."
• 39:04
  >> Does she really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
• 39:07
  like always was like she taught me how
• 39:10
  to lead rooms and you know, and that's
• 39:12
  essentially what I've been doing a lot
• 39:15
  of um as an associate. Right now I work
• 39:17
  as an associate for Mulan Rouge um
• 39:21
  mostly with the first national tour,
• 39:23
  sometimes over in the Broadway company.
• 39:25
  Um, I was an associate choreographer for
• 39:28
  On Your Feet after the show, um, after
• 39:32
  we did our Broadway one because I was
• 39:33
  performing in the show then. Um, and
• 39:35
  it's extraordinary. It's like beautiful
• 39:38
  for a choreographer to hand you their
• 39:40
  work and to say like, can you uphold the
• 39:43
  artistic integrity of this, you know?
• 39:45
  >> Wow. like I will do my very best and to
• 39:48
  be the translator of the choreography to
• 39:52
  incoming whether it's you know
• 39:54
  replacements or understudies or um
• 39:57
  watching the show and trying to make
• 39:58
  sure it stays in tune human imper you
• 40:02
  know like yeah shift but also that it
• 40:06
  stays sort of within the boundaries that
• 40:09
  were determined by somebody else and
• 40:12
  >> right
• 40:12
  >> it's definitely been a beautiful
• 40:15
  states to be in.
• 40:17
  >> Well, you mentioned it also that when
• 40:19
  you were acting and you were on tour, it
• 40:22
  was very demanding on you.
• 40:25
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the eight shows
• 40:27
  being a performer in a Broadway show,
• 40:29
  whether it's on tour or here in New York
• 40:32
  is um or regionally certainly, but like
• 40:37
  the eight show is hard. you're, you
• 40:40
  know, you're a high performing athlete
• 40:43
  in a way, especially if you're dancing
• 40:44
  in the area. Even if you're a singer in
• 40:46
  the show, I mean, these little chords
• 40:47
  are small and they're doing big huge
• 40:49
  things. Um, acting in the show, you're
• 40:52
  like offering your heart and your
• 40:53
  spirit. I mean, it's a lot that is asked
• 40:56
  for that chunk of time, eight times a
• 40:58
  week. And then there's no off time. Like
• 41:02
  during the holidays, you're working
• 41:04
  because people come to New York to see
• 41:05
  shows or they go to see shows up in
• 41:07
  town. And so you're just always you miss
• 41:11
  you miss so much. It's like the
• 41:13
  sacrifice of the thing that you're
• 41:16
  skilled and trained and that you love.
• 41:19
  But with real sacrifice, I think that
• 41:21
  was something that I you don't really
• 41:23
  learn until you're in it. Um that you
• 41:26
  miss birthdays and weddings and
• 41:29
  funerals.
• 41:30
  >> Sure.
• 41:31
  So your your shift to choreography right
• 41:34
  now, how has that invited you to be more
• 41:36
  mindful and present?
• 41:39
  >> Yeah, I think um interesting. It's um in
• 41:43
  this particular job, you know, my my
• 41:46
  current position with Muan Rouge, the
• 41:50
  a big huge thing is that the demand on
• 41:52
  my time is much different. you know, I
• 41:54
  come in to rehearse when there's the
• 41:56
  need, when there's people that are
• 41:58
  coming in, and then they go off to do
• 42:01
  the tour or they go off to do the
• 42:03
  Broadway show and I get to step back and
• 42:05
  have my time back. Um, and in this
• 42:08
  season, it's been incredibly important.
• 42:10
  I think that I have time
• 42:12
  um to be curious about other things, to
• 42:17
  be able to be home and cry, to be able
• 42:19
  to reach out to friends and or to run to
• 42:21
  Miami and get to show up for things with
• 42:23
  my family, um to rep prioritize or to
• 42:27
  ask myself what feels important right
• 42:29
  now. So, I think when you're on the
• 42:31
  performer
• 42:33
  uh hustle,
• 42:35
  um
• 42:35
  >> yeah,
• 42:36
  >> that train doesn't stop. It's hard. And
• 42:38
  I think this was something I struggled
• 42:39
  with and that ended up working itself
• 42:42
  into, you know, my marriage.
• 42:44
  >> Sure.
• 42:45
  >> Was just, you know, you're on that train
• 42:48
  and it's really hard to step away from
• 42:50
  it and go like, wait, what's going on?
• 42:52
  What's important? What am I missing?
• 42:55
  >> Right. When did yoga instruction enter
• 42:58
  your life?
• 42:59
  >> Yeah. I people had always told me, my
• 43:02
  brother actually sent me a long message
• 43:03
  about this the other day. He was like,
• 43:05
  "What? first one who told you I'm like
• 43:08
  well okay um it might be true um but
• 43:12
  people had always told me that they
• 43:14
  thought it would be something I would
• 43:15
  like um as a performer in particular
• 43:18
  like it's a great way to check in and to
• 43:22
  make sure the body feels balanced and
• 43:24
  your heart feels balanced and tapping
• 43:26
  into your breath. Um, and so I got
• 43:29
  certified in 2020 before the pandemic
• 43:32
  mostly because I was curious about being
• 43:35
  a better practitioner. I I was like, I
• 43:38
  need a way into this. I sort sort of
• 43:40
  hadn't found it, but I was curious
• 43:42
  enough about it. And then during the
• 43:44
  pandemic, it was the thing I could do to
• 43:48
  stay connected to friends, to offer us a
• 43:50
  space to breathe,
• 43:53
  um, to try to like hold each other's
• 43:55
  hands over Zoom and
• 43:59
  do it together in movement and with fun
• 44:01
  music or with a bit of philosophy that I
• 44:04
  had learned. I was learning how to like
• 44:07
  reinterpret the things I had learned
• 44:09
  towards the artist community that I
• 44:11
  think we really need some needed
• 44:13
  somewhere to gather and I needed
• 44:15
  somewhere interesting
• 44:16
  >> do like I needed somewhere to
• 44:20
  >> somewhere to be um
• 44:22
  >> right
• 44:24
  >> well I can't wait to take one of your
• 44:26
  classes
• 44:27
  >> I can't wait to
• 44:28
  >> because I can only imagine that there's
• 44:30
  tons of ballet in your movement and I
• 44:33
  would love to see how you kind of merge
• 44:35
  merge the two. Yeah, I have a be like on
• 44:39
  euphoria yoga that you could look into
• 44:41
  nay performance yoga. I mean, honestly,
• 44:44
  I think right now I'm teaching a class,
• 44:46
  you know, sort of bi-weekly for the
• 44:47
  Broadway community, for artists,
• 44:50
  honestly, for anybody, but it's been a
• 44:53
  really beautiful thing to have a room of
• 44:55
  people where we all have the shared
• 44:58
  experience of swinging at eight show
• 45:01
  week, being in between jobs, you know,
• 45:04
  and the whole room just energetically
• 45:06
  holds each other in a different way
• 45:08
  because everyone's, you know, you're
• 45:11
  going to laugh. I don't think I've ever
• 45:13
  told you this.
• 45:14
  >> I want to hear,
• 45:14
  >> but in the few times that I've done
• 45:16
  yoga,
• 45:18
  and I don't know how I didn't remember
• 45:20
  to tell you this before, I would extend
• 45:23
  into warrior. Uhhuh. And in my head, I
• 45:25
  would hear your mom saying, "No French
• 45:27
  fly fingers
• 45:30
  and I would just end up like doing my
• 45:32
  warrior like with my my ballet hands
• 45:35
  every once in a while." Um, and I don't
• 45:38
  know why I never thought of telling you
• 45:39
  that, but I would hear Miss Jar's voice.
• 45:41
  No French fries cuz she would come and
• 45:43
  reposition my fingers. She was telling
• 45:45
  me I had French fingers. They're funny.
• 45:47
  You're holding a hamburger. People hold
• 45:49
  their hands like this.
• 45:52
  When I was doing my my daughter's buns
• 45:55
  when she was a little girl for ballet
• 45:57
  class. The other thing that it would
• 45:59
  always come into my mind was when your
• 46:01
  mom would tell us no cupcakes. No
• 46:03
  cupcakes. because she hated the fact
• 46:05
  that people would just do this and that
• 46:07
  it would stick out and it would stick
• 46:09
  out and she would tell us no cupcakes.
• 46:12
  So funny. Yeah, she was I mean she had
• 46:15
  such a high she was really excellent as
• 46:17
  a I mean so warm so delightful like such
• 46:20
  a care bear like heart open you know
• 46:23
  playful sweet
• 46:25
  the best
• 46:26
  >> the best and she was a really good she
• 46:29
  created excellent dancers
• 46:31
  >> I mean yes she did so on too
• 46:34
  >> yeah and like even if you were somebody
• 46:36
  who walked in who had never danced had
• 46:38
  two left feet like she part of her thing
• 46:42
  right to look out and go, "Okay, I can
• 46:44
  get you from here to here."
• 46:47
  You know, she I get you there and I'm
• 46:49
  going to hold that future for you.
• 46:52
  >> Um I love that about her. There was
• 46:55
  never nothing that you could not do in
• 46:57
  her class.
• 46:59
  >> And I I'll never forget she would look
• 47:02
  at me. She's like, "You're in dance two.
• 47:03
  You need to do two spins." I'm like, "I
• 47:05
  can only do one." She goes, "Dance two?
• 47:08
  Two spins?"
• 47:10
  I was like, "Oh, then I got to stop at
• 47:12
  dance three and not go to dance three
• 47:13
  cuz there's no way I'm going three."
• 47:16
  So funny. Very her though.
• 47:19
  >> Very her.
• 47:20
  >> Yeah, she had a way. So
• 47:23
  I know what her dreams were for you were
• 47:26
  and I know that you're living them and I
• 47:28
  know she's looking down and she's saying
• 47:30
  all of it, but what are your dreams?
• 47:33
  What are your future dreams? I know what
• 47:35
  they are. And I have no doubt you're
• 47:37
  gonna get there and I'm gonna be the
• 47:40
  first one to buy that ticket. So, what's
• 47:41
  your dream?
• 47:43
  >> I just had an audition for that.
• 47:46
  P.S. I mean, it's for future for the
• 47:49
  future, so who knows? But it was really
• 47:51
  fun. Had so much fun. So, let's manifest
• 47:54
  it.
• 47:57
  >> Oh, you want to? Okay. I'll tell you
• 48:00
  what. If it happens, you come back and
• 48:02
  you tell us. Okay.
• 48:04
  >> Okay. This is my sweet. You want it?
• 48:08
  >> Before we continue, I want to pause just
• 48:10
  for a moment because life moved in real
• 48:12
  time between this conversation and now.
• 48:14
  At the time of the interview, Natalie
• 48:16
  had just auditioned for her dream role.
• 48:18
  And today, I'm so happy to share that
• 48:19
  she landed it. Natalie is now a vacation
• 48:22
  swing in Buenav Vista Social Club on
• 48:24
  Broadway. It feels important to name
• 48:26
  that because this conversation captures
• 48:28
  the courage it takes to believe before
• 48:29
  the yes arrives. Congratulations,
• 48:32
  Natalie. We're so proud of you and
• 48:33
  there's no doubt your mom is beaming
• 48:35
  with pride in heaven. And now let's
• 48:37
  return to that moment when she was still
• 48:38
  dreaming it into existence. Yeah. You
• 48:41
  know, I would It's funny because I would
• 48:44
  love to get to dance again in a Broadway
• 48:47
  show. I would love to get to do that.
• 48:50
  It's interesting though when I think
• 48:52
  about performing, the thing that also
• 48:53
  comes up right away is that I'm not
• 48:55
  willing to um to not prioritize my life.
• 49:00
  Like that is something that I think out
• 49:03
  of this past couple of years it's like
• 49:07
  I have I have done that before where
• 49:11
  other things people experiences family
• 49:14
  things have been pushed to serve my
• 49:17
  dream and my heart's biggest desire and
• 49:21
  my work and now even if I get to do that
• 49:25
  eight show a week again which would be a
• 49:27
  dream and it certain shows I think would
• 49:29
  make that sacrifice worth it because
• 49:31
  there is a sacrifice in doing that kind
• 49:33
  of schedule. Um, yeah, I think I would
• 49:36
  just do it with my eyes open, you know,
• 49:39
  and making sure that, you know, we've
• 49:42
  got this like one beautiful life and
• 49:46
  it's fleeting and it doesn't last
• 49:48
  forever. And so like the people that are
• 49:50
  important to us,
• 49:53
  you know, including ourselves,
• 49:56
  like we need to make sure not to like
• 49:58
  leave ourselves or the people we love
• 50:00
  behind, you know, no matter what.
• 50:02
  >> That's beautiful, Natalie. I share the
• 50:06
  same sentiment.
• 50:08
  >> What advice would you give to somebody
• 50:10
  navigating both grief or divorce?
• 50:14
  Yeah, I think um
• 50:17
  I think with regard to divorce, I know
• 50:19
  different people, you know, everyone's
• 50:21
  relationship and everyone's experience
• 50:23
  is different.
• 50:24
  Um
• 50:26
  I think giving ourselves like a lot of
• 50:28
  compassion.
• 50:30
  >> Yes. in the midst of like even really
• 50:34
  hard stuff.
• 50:36
  um
• 50:37
  like giving yourself credit that like
• 50:40
  you really did your best and that loving
• 50:42
  that person and again maybe this doesn't
• 50:44
  speak to every single thing but like
• 50:46
  that you know I didn't I didn't do
• 50:48
  anything wrong you know like wanting it
• 50:51
  to work is a beautiful thing and the
• 50:53
  fact that it didn't is okay and there
• 50:56
  can still be love in whatever new
• 50:58
  different way even if you don't know
• 51:00
  that person anymore or if you do or you
• 51:02
  know but I think um giving ourselves
• 51:04
  like a lot of compassion and I think not
• 51:08
  rushing the process
• 51:10
  particularly like then like with the
• 51:12
  loss of someone I think we don't have to
• 51:14
  worry so much about moving on. I mean
• 51:17
  like life is meant to be lived but grief
• 51:20
  gets to be part of it
• 51:23
  and like we have the beautiful choice of
• 51:24
  figuring out how to carry people we love
• 51:26
  forward. But I think like any other
• 51:28
  habit like and building habits is hard
• 51:31
  and changing our ways is hard.
• 51:34
  But I think it we get like I get to
• 51:38
  choose how I want to carry my mom and
• 51:40
  the things I learned from her and the
• 51:42
  things I've learned about myself
• 51:44
  forward. And if I just move on, I miss
• 51:46
  the lesson
• 51:48
  potentially.
• 51:51
  >> I think you just described what would
• 51:53
  have been my next question, which is
• 51:54
  what does heartful living mean to you?
• 51:57
  And I think that that is exactly
• 52:00
  the definition you would have probably
• 52:02
  given it.
• 52:03
  >> Yeah. I Yeah, I think being present to
• 52:06
  life, you know, and figuring out like
• 52:09
  how do I get present? And if you don't
• 52:10
  know, then like take some time and
• 52:13
  figure it out. You know, yoga and
• 52:16
  teaching yoga and holding that kind of
• 52:18
  space has certainly been a way for me.
• 52:20
  But I also find it cooking with my
• 52:22
  friends and like cooking by myself and
• 52:25
  taking a walk with the dogs. But I think
• 52:26
  it it it takes intentionality to to be
• 52:30
  present every day like as much as we
• 52:33
  can.
• 52:36
  There you go. That's heartful living at
• 52:38
  its fullest and its finest.
• 52:40
  >> Hey
• 52:42
  >> Natalie, is there any other um excerpt
• 52:44
  that you would like to read for us for
• 52:46
  our closing
• 52:49
  to send us off into the day?
• 52:52
  >> Oh gosh.
• 52:56
  No, maybe. Let's see. Let's see.
• 53:02
  It's funny how things become like you
• 53:05
  know we need ways to understand the
• 53:09
  things that have happened to us and some
• 53:11
  of this like writing or dancing in the
• 53:13
  morning or all these different ways
• 53:15
  we're just trying to understand like
• 53:17
  wrap our heads and our hearts around
• 53:19
  things. So that's what this, you know,
• 53:22
  lighting ends up being for me. It's like
• 53:26
  reaching to understand.
• 53:30
  Um,
• 53:33
  okay. This is the last one I wrote. Um,
• 53:41
  okay. I'll I'll read this little last
• 53:43
  bit. It's about love and grief in that
• 53:46
  relationship.
• 53:48
  Um,
• 53:50
  what I found is this. Grief is my way to
• 53:53
  her. It is my way back to the wholeness
• 53:56
  of my heart and of my being. Love
• 53:59
  without grief stays in the past. It's
• 54:01
  our memories. It's being in the studio.
• 54:04
  Hearing her say, "Hello, my beautiful
• 54:06
  daughter." or the twinkle in her voice.
• 54:10
  It's a call at midnight on my birthday.
• 54:12
  Her beautiful hands, the sweet tilt of
• 54:14
  her head. If I lean toward grief, I open
• 54:18
  a pathway to a future with her. I walk
• 54:21
  up to grief's rooms in my lungs. And
• 54:24
  when I accept that she's not here, grief
• 54:25
  hands me the key. The door opens.
• 54:28
  Inhale. There she is. Exhale. Love and
• 54:32
  grief meeting. So I can truly experience
• 54:35
  her in the here and now. It's a moment
• 54:38
  while I dance. The shun the sun shining
• 54:40
  a little brighter. The sweet breeze. The
• 54:43
  opening of my heart. It makes my eyes
• 54:46
  tearary with love. It's true. It makes
• 54:48
  my heart giggle with delight. And I know
• 54:51
  that delight is her because it was her
• 54:52
  essence. All of a sudden, it's me and my
• 54:55
  mom sitting here right now with my
• 54:57
  computer on a chair under an umbrella
• 54:59
  facing the sea.
• 55:02
  So, I've invited grief to stay. I've
• 55:04
  told her she can have a voice. She can
• 55:07
  pour in waves when she needs to. I thank
• 55:10
  her for using my lungs to open my heart,
• 55:12
  for connecting me, connecting me to
• 55:14
  myself, to my mom, and to what's next. I
• 55:17
  lean towards grief to hold hands with
• 55:20
  love, even on a beautiful day by the sea
• 55:22
  in France.
• 55:26
  That was beautiful.
• 55:28
  >> You're beautiful.
• 55:30
  Thank you. I want to I want to close by
• 55:34
  honoring you, Mom, because this is
• 55:36
  probably the interview that I was most
• 55:40
  scared to do because I wanted to make
• 55:43
  sure
• 55:45
  that we honored her in a way that would
• 55:48
  make you happy.
• 55:50
  So,
• 55:52
  I want to open the door to the hallway
• 55:56
  and let her into the room. For those of
• 55:58
  you that have not seen Natalie's social
• 56:01
  media,
• 56:03
  she wakes up every morning
• 56:05
  and dances
• 56:09
  whether she's crying or whether she's
• 56:13
  happy.
• 56:14
  So I wanted to dance all out.
• 56:42
  Beautiful.
• 56:55
  I was very careful not to do my French
• 56:57
  fine by hands.
• 57:01
  Natalie, thank you so much for opening
• 57:04
  up and sharing your journey with us and
• 57:06
  breaking the taboo on grief and loss
• 57:09
  today.
• 57:10
  I have no doubt that you are going to
• 57:13
  come to us in the next couple months and
• 57:16
  you're going to share what that dream
• 57:18
  was cuz it's going to happen. Thanks.
• 57:21
  And I will be there front row. I
• 57:23
  promise.
• 57:28
  And on that note, we're going to close
• 57:30
  out today's episode. Thank you once
• 57:31
  again to Natalie Kumo for joining us on
• 57:34
  the chair today on the mic and sharing
• 57:37
  her journey with us. Natalie, thank you.
• 57:39
  Pancake.