Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 37: Carlos Brathwaite Exclusive (Pt. 1) on Man Utd, Grimsby defeat & Ruben Amorim

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Ep 37: Carlos Brathwaite Exclusive (Pt. 1) on Man Utd, Grimsby defeat & Ruben Amorim · Let's Kick It Off!

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I'm Steve and I'm joined by Ash and Carlos Brathway, former West
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Indian cricketer, world champion, I might add, and most
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importantly for us, a hugely passionate Manchester United
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supporter. Me and Ash can vouch for that
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ourselves. We're sitting next to Carlos for
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the Arsenal game and got a bit tasty, didn't it, Next to the
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away end. So we'll, we'll start with
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United because there was a massive, massive result last
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night against Grimsby. We'll come on to cricket and
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other topics, but we have to start with Grimsby.
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This is the first time Manchester United have lost to
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1/4 tier opposition in the history of the club.
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So that's how big big it is in terms of the result and
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obviously the narrative around it.
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With Reuben, you know he's struggling for wins, so we have
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to go straight into that. Carlos, what did you make of
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that defeat against Grimsby? I could tell you it made me feel
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like it literally spoke to no one after the year last night.
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My wife knew better, like the message as well.
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So I just shot her message this morning.
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But yeah, I think the Mick McCarthy interview comes to
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mind. Surely can get worse.
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And he goes every time we hit a new, we think we've hit as low
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as we can. There's a new law somewhere on
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the corner. But I've been big on if it's a
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rebuild is going to be painful. And we all laughed at Liverpool
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in their 30 year hiatus. And I feel as though if we want
2:06
to prevent ourselves from going a similar length, we need to
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endure some pain, understand and assess where this man Knight of
2:16
Pressure comes from. Because in the lead up to that
2:19
game, it was all about Poppy menu not getting any minutes.
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Do I think he should have played minutes in the two games?
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Yes. But at the end of the day, he's
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20 years old. There's literally been two games
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of the season and I don't know if anyone was briefed.
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I not Privy to that information, but as a fan and somebody was
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kind aware of holding media currently portrays and I guess
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profits are for United. It looked as though something
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turned into a maybe and then three or four people picked it
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up, added some speculation, created a nice narrative and
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then all of a sudden you're having stories just before 2
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days before a game which came literally out of nothing.
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Fordin hasn't started the season as yet and in two games and he's
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supposed to be the Golden Boy England supposed to build the
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whole team around at least 24 previous young player of the
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year. So it's just the narratives that
3:14
being swung around Man United and then to be honest, the
3:19
players, the shirt gets too heavy because the pressure comes
3:22
from the outside. It's fabricated pressure.
3:26
But I've been there as a professional cricketer and you
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do hear and see what is being said.
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You look at the operators doing the war.
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Here Flick, he saw everyone talking about catches in the box
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and here Flick. So the players are human and
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when you get people just picking stories and picking off, then
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players don't want to make a touch.
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You don't want to make a pass, you don't want to make a
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mistake. And if you're going into a game
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as a professional, wherever sport it may be, not wanting to
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make a mistake, then inevitably in the States will happen.
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I don't think that was an excuse for the performance.
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I just think we would be shocked mentally, mentally don't think
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those players are good enough when the chips are down.
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We saw it with Bruno against Fulham.
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Yes, Bruno supposed to be a mentality monster and supposed
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to be the leader, but when he was done, no one else could pick
4:18
the team up. I think that's what Ameren, he
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should have been subbed. He's made a lot of tough
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decisions, often feel that being supported against Fulham was his
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chance to make a tough decision on the field.
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And said Bruno, you're being hooked.
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You're not doing it. Your head's not in the game.
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Come off. So there's a lot of things.
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There's a lot of things that you can see from the outside.
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There's a fan, but when you're in it, you have to ask Amarin if
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you have, if there's one player in the field that come in this
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game for you and you had a list of three players, Bruno would
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probably be 2 1/2 of those 3. So whilst we're saying we should
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hook him, the overall performance, you also know that
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there's one way that will pull Magic out of the heart will be
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Bruno. And then we be unhappy that, you
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know, my wire got chopped on. But how much Time Team come up,
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you know, when you're so as much as you can see what he shouldn't
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have done and he's done. You can also, if you're being
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honest, see why he has done it. So Grimsby has rather grim, but
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leading up to I think that was and you know, you know what, I
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remember seeing Ahmad losing the ball and Ian and Heaven losing
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the ball and like kicking out in frustration.
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There was so much pressure in and around the club and it's Man
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United. You've got embrace that
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pressure. But I feel like a lot of that
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pressure is fabricated by the media, the fans a lot better and
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then the players feel it. And yeah, we added three players
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and expected to go from 15th to 4th.
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Carlos, can I touch on the media speculation, right?
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Because it's a great comparison that you talked about,
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obviously, you know, playing in cricket, right?
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Because the West Indies for me, like I'm similar age to actually
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a couple of years older. And it's like the West Indies
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when I grew up, they were Manchester United, right?
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The 70s and the 80s, right? And I started watching the West
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Indies more in the 90s when like that transition period came.
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So he had, you know, like Walsh, Ambrose, Lara, but everyone
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expected the West Indies to continue winning.
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And obviously, unfortunately we saw, you know, the the declining
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and obviously it's similar with Manchester United, right, in
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terms of the great badge, just like the West Indian symbol.
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And then you were talking about, right, this fabrication and
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almost like hyping, right, the Kobe menu, the Bruno Fernandez
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side of it. So as a professional, I know
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it's a different sport, but how much do you think that's playing
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on the players minds? The Manchester United is when
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they're going into that game yesterday, Like, do you think
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like it can really consume, consume them?
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Even the big stars, you know, like take us into that mindset
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of a, you know, a sporting professional like you a. 100%
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and I love the the similarities between United and and West
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Indies because I had a conversation with someone and I
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told them I've never seen it all.
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Conquering W Indies, testing everyone always talks about, you
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know, we gotta get back to the glory days, obviously glory days
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on tapes. So we still.
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We still. Some some kids won't know what
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tapes are. No, we we still in this cool,
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cool land about the glory days with United and with W Indies
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and we haven't found modern solutions to be successful.
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So with the West Indies, if we take the series against
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Australia, for example, Australia coming to the West
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Indies, W Indies were always going to lose 3 nil.
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However, because of how well we bowled, we were always in the
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Test up until the last innings because we batted 4th innings
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all three tests. And then we showed why Australia
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showed where they were better, we showed why we were inferior.
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We lost three nil. After every game there was
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uproar. Why did we lose?
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Why did we bat so bad? We've been batting bad for 1520
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years as the same thing as United.
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United have been crap for how long is for, you know, 13 years,
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13 you've been crap 13 years. And you know, if the media
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narratives actually were in 13 years, who's winning most
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trophies? So this is our banter era and we
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still want more things than so many clubs that everybody's
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seeing is also successful. Arsenal.
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Yeah, well, you said it. So when you look at me and tell
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me or our tattoo has been great for Arsenal, I'd say yes, he has
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been. He's added some stability, the
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challenge every season. That's fine.
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But if you ask me why you play football, why you play a sport,
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you play it for the love of the game and you play it to win.
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My United have found ways to win trophies even in our worst era
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and no one celebrates United for so the media narrative is being
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spun that we are all so bad. Newcastle is also good.
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One trophy in 70 years. Are Teton also great and
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brilliant? One trophy, you're gonna call it
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half because he joined mid season in five or six years.
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He only played two games to win it, right?
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I think make a lot. So he played the semi in the
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final. Something like that.
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I can't. I can't exactly remember how
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many games he managed, but I can't take it away from him.
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Let me give him. Let me give him.
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Yeah, give him his dues. Yeah, yeah.
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Clock are probably the only two managers that you can compare
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with what Manchester have done in the last 13 years and people
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talk about Poster Alex Ferguson era as though it's all been doom
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and gloom. Michelle West Ham celebrate the
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Conference League. We shall Tottenham just
10:02
celebrate the Europa. We've literally won a Europe in
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the last 13 years we've been a loss.
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Well told them like if switch the narrative is like saying
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someone has only scored twenty runs off 20 balls or saying
10:18
someone is scoring a run a ball. It's just two different
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narratives. It's genuinely the same thing.
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But if you frame it as negative, it's perceived that way.
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You run with it, you frame it as positive, you run with that.
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Yep, and it isn't the difference there.
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It's a really good example you make, you know, we've won
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trophies over this last decade. Isn't the difference there than
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the standards? We get held to such a high
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standard as Manchester United because of the history, because
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of the past, right? And I have to bring it on to
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Reuben, right? Because if we're talking
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standards, there's loads of stats.
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I'm not going to mention any stats.
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We know the win record is terrible, right?
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So where do you stand on Reuben? Tell me, Carlos.
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So you see, thing is I don't think we are well run as a club.
11:01
So that's the first start. So if we look back at the last
11:04
two appointments, I'm already know and I was a fan of 10 Hag.
11:09
I not shame of saying that. I also think him having to leave
11:13
is probably the best thing. I think both things could be
11:15
true. I don't like the manager, FC
11:18
versus play FC. I'm a Manchester United fan.
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Whoever's the manager, I'll back them to the end, like to point
11:25
out flaws, but I don't want United to lose a game so that a
11:29
manager could get sacked. So if you look at 10 Hag, 10 Hag
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came in, there was the Ronald, the saga, there was the Anthony
11:38
rape case, there was the Greenwood saga slash rape case
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and there was something else that comes to mind.
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And then there was Sancho. People make it seem as though
11:50
United have held Sancho captive in his words, may get away his
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freedom but no one remembers that and how I basically
12:00
protected him. So I take 3 months or something
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that already was going through a mental breakdown.
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Carlos, I just wanted to jump in, you know, when all the
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haters were talking about like how, you know, 10 hog made the
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dressing room toxic, you know, they isolated Sanchez.
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I said exactly the same thing. Everyone forgets he, you know,
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put an arm around his shoulder, I think sent him to Amsterdam
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for personal coaching so that, you know, he could like, get
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away from the noise. Like like you said, Manchester
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United, everyone looks at this club, right?
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Doesn't matter if they're doing amazing or they're shit.
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All eyes are on United and 10 hog sent him to Amsterdam, try
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to recuperate him and he you know, even with the incident,
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right? Like it was like he was, you
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know, we know 10 hugs, honest, right?
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That's the Dutch way. And for Sanchez to come out and
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tweet like I think people have a misconception about that story.
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So I'm with you on that in that I actually, you know, back 10
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Haag on on the Sancho 1 and you've only you you see what's
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happened right with this season. And Sancho doesn't even want
13:05
want to play for a club at the moment, right?
13:07
So yeah. To be honest, that Sancho thing
13:10
is developed into ugly saga, but we're just talking about when 10
13:16
had came in. All those things he had to deal
13:19
with was actually before football.
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So you compare that to a well run club in Liverpool and Slot
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coming into Liverpool. What saga does Slot have to do
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with? Probably Trent not wanting to
13:31
sign a contract but Trent still turning up and playing, still
13:35
doing well and they didn't make a signing.
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But the club is so well run that you can literally drop.
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I don't I don't want to disprove anything that he would have done
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because it still takes a lot of knowledge, confidence and a lot
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of goals into winning a Premier League.
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So I don't want to discredit that.
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But why you probably trying to prove?
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You can if you want, Carlos. No, I'll discredit what Slot
14:04
did, but the point I'm trying to prove is you come into United,
14:08
you have 10 things to worry about before football.
14:12
You go into another club that's well run and football is your
14:15
main focus. And this is not.
14:17
No, when Sir Alex left Clock wrote in a book or or said it in
14:22
an interview that he interviewed at Liverpool, he also
14:25
interviewed at another club and he was interested in the other
14:28
club. But the reason he didn't join
14:30
the other club is because he felt as though the club was more
14:35
about commercial than they were about football.
14:37
Football was secondary to the commercial interest and that's
14:41
how the club has been run. So we now ask in 10 hard to come
14:45
in fix all these off the field things, fix years of
14:50
mismanagement. OK within what he had to do he
14:54
got 2 trophies in two years got sucked.
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Amarin comes in and has to deal with something similar.
15:02
You got the quote unquote bomb squad players are trying to get
15:05
rid of. We can't get players sold
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players on astronomical fees from years ago.
15:12
Luke Shaw's still at the club, bro.
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What has Luke all done in fight is like, the club is so poorly
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run. You can put any manager there
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and the manager will fail. So he's come in, he started to
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deal with a takeover. I can't make a takeover was
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done. I speak under correction, under
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10 hard or under Amarin. Yeah, and it was.
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Just. It was just December 24th, so
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there, yeah. There's a crossover, yeah.
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Yeah, and then there and then I'm rim was there first big
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signing and then afterwards and was Nick.
15:44
So we still got that. We got in the OS Yang control of
15:51
the club shares being a seal this dragon tiger or whatever
15:56
thing. Like there's so much going on
15:58
around the club before the football.
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Yeah, get rid of Garnacho and his petulance, get rid of
16:04
Rashford. To our cell players, how has all
16:07
of these players gone for 55 or 60 mil?
16:10
And we're selling our natural for 45 mil.
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Carlos, where do you stand on obviously the so-called bomb
16:18
squad, right, in terms of it's funny, you mentioned 10 Argos.
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So a lot of the criticism that got 10 hog in the soccer
16:26
essentially was the dressing room, right?
16:28
Like he lost the dressing room. And I'm sure you've heard this
16:30
term many a time, especially playing for the West Indies as
16:33
well and just cricket. But in terms of Ruben, he had
16:38
Rushford, he had Ganache, he had Kobe menu and within nine
16:42
months, look, there's a lot of history etcetera.
16:45
But if you just look at it in isolation, he's lost those
16:50
players in terms of like that trust.
16:51
And obviously with Rashford, he he's gone to Barcelona a gun.
16:54
I showed the relationships completely disintegrated over
16:58
the last like few months. And then Kobe, you know, the I
17:00
know there's the narrative from the media side, but there's
17:03
obviously some issue there, right, In terms of Amarim is not
17:06
even picking him. So like where do you stand of
17:09
like how Rubens managed, like you know our players that we saw
17:14
as the future for the next few years after winning the FA Cup
17:17
like 2 years ago with 10 arc? Well, I think all these
17:20
situations are or should be choosing the isolation.
17:24
I think Rashford after the big contract hasn't hit the same
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heights for whatever reason. I I personally love Rafael.
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I love what he did during COVID. I love what he stands for as a
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black successful sportsman that went beyond sport trying to give
17:40
back to his community. As someone that come from humble
17:43
beginnings. That aside, it almost put a
17:46
target on his back for the media so he always had to be basically
17:52
the best player in the league or up there there on the boat
17:55
unless you'll be unwanted criticism.
17:57
I mean it could be because he's a certain colour as well because
18:00
remember Graham sooner saying Pogba you expect 100 million man
18:05
to get 4 assists first day of the season and he works play
18:09
four complete passes yet, but it's been crickets from the
18:12
media. But back to Rashford.
18:15
I just think that when we try to transition from a team that, you
18:19
know, plays the and try and play aside and fast transition
18:24
football. So did him running in behind,
18:27
latching onto balls and scoring balls and what's not, Are we
18:30
trying to play more possession base?
18:32
It didn't feel as though it was natural watching him play.
18:35
He lost form forever, coincided with a big contract and then the
18:41
media sharks came out and then once that cocktail happened it
18:46
was on hiding to nothing. So I think it was a good
18:49
separation for him to get away and we all would have loved the
18:53
cinematic hero story from. You never know, it still could
18:58
happen in the future. Academy, But it just wasn't to
19:02
me. I think Garnacho is petulant.
19:05
Yanacho is a child. Garnacho has the ego of
19:09
Cristiano Ronaldo and the talent of Theo Walker.
19:13
It can be Cristiano Ronaldo eventually, but at this point in
19:17
time, if you just trip away what he can be and look at what he
19:21
is, He's fast, he's electric. I love to watch him on the ball.
19:25
He take his player on. He's not efficient.
19:29
He got any chances before he hit the poster one living off the
19:34
bicycle kick. Amazing goal, deserve the
19:37
accolades. But if we look at his idol
19:39
Cristiano Ronaldo and his commitment to being the best
19:43
every single day far as every single game and we compare that
19:47
to Garnacho. He wants the success and the
19:50
fame in my opinion of Cristiano Ronaldo without putting in the
19:55
hard work and being as disciplined as Cristiano Ronaldo
19:58
was. Remember there was AUS tour when
20:01
Garnacho hardly played in pre season under 10.
20:06
Hag and everybody, anybody that spoke about Garnacho said he had
20:10
an attitude problem. So this player, this coaches
20:14
this media, not media like the. Sports and talks where this is
20:19
media like people that were covering I don't I don't
20:22
remember the exact ones, but people and the middle were
20:25
close. Those sort of people say yes,
20:27
you know, there has been challenges regarding actuals
20:30
where is attitude. So it's only for so long that
20:33
you can take someone with a bad attitude.
20:35
You're not putting up the numbers that the attitude would
20:38
quite like. If he was in Sir Alex Times,
20:40
Ronaldo probably had attitude problems, not wanted a part.
20:44
Well, not attitude problems, but a little bit selfish, not wanted
20:47
a pass, dribbling too much Van Nistero and got upset.
20:50
But the trajectory that Ronaldo was on when it come, Ronaldo
20:54
versus Van Nisteroy, Van Nisteroy had a go.
20:56
And if right now you choose Garnacho versus most players
21:00
with the petulance that he shows day in, day out and with the
21:03
lack of performances to accompany that petulance, you
21:07
got to say got a natural goal with Kobe Minu.
21:10
Again, there is no smoke without fire.
21:16
From what I understand, he's on 20 KA week.
21:18
This is a man that broke out with two years ago, Mahdi mAh,
21:22
the final or was a regular for the England for England at the
21:27
EUR before injury struck. So he's looking at his wage,
21:31
thinking I'm making 20K. You all know sign or guard here
21:36
or guardian 100 and something. How much?
21:38
I don't know how much it is, but let me say 100 and something,
21:40
1000 lbs a week, you know, sign this one, that one, this one,
21:44
that one. And these men getting 10 * 8 to
21:46
10 times what I'm being paid. And if I look at my rise from
21:51
Academy to the senior team to international football to
21:55
starting and playing in the final mighty match in the finals
21:58
for United, I deserved paid better.
22:00
Now I don't know what he's been asking for.
22:03
And there's obviously a disconnect between when most of
22:06
the players were signed for ridiculous wages and the code
22:09
regime trying to manage the rage bill.
22:11
So there's has been a disconnect there.
22:13
But as a player, I try to get the more money that I could
22:15
weekly as a short career. And if I get injured again, like
22:21
let me look at, I mean, Luke Shaw's a terrible example, but
22:24
that's the kind of Luke Shaw, you get a leg, a leg break, and
22:28
your career potentially never be the same.
22:30
So he's trying to rinse the club, not in a bad way.
22:33
He'll be trying to maximise his talent and get as much money.
22:36
That's fine. And he hasn't done the tools, he
22:38
hasn't tweeted, he hasn't liked anything on Instagram or
22:42
Twitter. He's against the manager,
22:44
against the club. You get your head down the CDD
22:47
videos and pre season him and then you're all working striking
22:50
up a little bromance. He's been professional, right?
22:52
Unlike gun gun at you, right, He says.
22:54
Total opposite. Correct SO here we saying oh you
22:58
know you are natural disc natural that and you know we
23:01
shouldn't treat your natural that way.
23:03
But no people won't come down hard.
23:04
Probably money new for wanting more money when you're a club
23:07
that pays out big wages and you've risen from the Academy
23:10
and gotten to a point reached in my opinion deserve a better wage
23:14
than 20K a week. So I don't think the handling of
23:18
it should have been blown up to the proportion that it was.
23:21
It literally has been guys two games and he always going to
23:25
start Grimsby. So in first three games of the
23:27
season he would have played one not played two.
23:30
You got international break and then to be honest the season
23:33
really starts after the international break.
23:35
You try to mitigate the fatigue and what's not before the
23:38
international break. But after these first three
23:41
weeks to a month then your season really starts.
23:43
You get more miles in your legs, more familiar priority, engage
23:47
in new signings, that type of thing.
23:49
You ever get to the International Brit Have you
23:51
personally panic button? Yeah, So just just to be clear
23:55
then, Carlos, you're, you know, you're firmly behind Ruben at
23:58
this point, even after that defeat.
24:01
Yeah, last night against. Have you seen, I'm guessing
24:03
you've seen social media today with have you seen the picture,
24:05
you know, where he's looking at the little tactics board.
24:07
And you know, there's so many different ones.
24:12
It's a little bit funny, but I actually feel sorry for him a
24:14
little bit as well. But you know, like, do you think
24:16
you can recover from this? Like and you're and you're
24:18
firmly behind him. I'm firmly behind him.
24:20
I just say supporting any manager that is managing the
24:24
club. I don't want us to lose because
24:27
I want a manager sack and to be honest is a lot from experience.
24:32
So I was player CI was Pogba instead of Mourinho.
24:37
I was in the camp of well let's lose again.
24:39
If we lose against Watford, all they might be sacked and they
24:43
really so ignorant that is. So I've grown past those two
24:47
things to realise, you know, if you're a fan of the club, you're
24:51
back the club to the hills. Now someone comes and says they
24:54
don't take the 3/4. Three is working.
24:57
There's a discussion we can have.
24:58
I can agree or disagree that I don't think the four is working.
25:02
I can agree or disagree that I don't think a player should play
25:04
as much minutes or a player should get more minutes.
25:07
But I said I want the manager to be sacked or I want the club to
25:10
lose so the manager could be sacked.
25:11
I think that was asinine and you probably just been doing it for
25:15
engagement like a tweet recently.
25:17
As fans, a lot of the hysteria is because of our own ego.
25:21
So when we occur as Scores and Arsenal fans lapping it up,
25:26
Double O Salvo is off. We inherently feel pressure
25:30
because Konya hasn't scored yet and Brain wasn't scored yet,
25:32
Chef Score hasn't scored yet. But it just sort of our friends
25:35
weren't bad to us. So if we can be selfless and
25:40
accept that it's a process, how do you expect players that in
25:44
the like that saying a million different things, you'll react?
25:47
You don't think that is going to be a level of trepidation when
25:50
the ball comes to trap it, to pass it, Who's going to really
25:53
take the chances? Who wants to make a mistake
25:56
versus who won't play safe? And then all these little things
25:59
are there and you get performances like against
26:01
Grimsby. So I think 343 can work.
26:05
Crystal Palace literally is proving it right before our
26:08
eyes. I have people saying as it is
26:11
gone, but Crystal Palace looks so strong in their formation and
26:16
their system that they can survive it.
26:18
Yet the same people then turn around and say the 343 can't
26:22
work with Amarin. It never works in England guys.
26:25
The last two trophies in England they won by a team playing 343
26:29
and we want two of their players.
26:34
Yeah, that's true. I just want to touch on Bruno as
26:38
well because Carlos, I know you've been a captain in your
26:40
career as well. So you touched on it earlier in
26:43
terms of his performance in the Fulham game of I think it was
26:47
clear to all of us he was pissed off, right.
26:48
You know, the little thing where the referee bumped him and he
26:51
lost his head, That was that was strange, right?
26:53
But like, yeah, where do you stand on Bruno as a captain?
26:55
Because I think the fan base is kind of divided.
26:58
A lot of people say he's a tallies man, scores the goals,
27:01
he's the only person. But then on the other hand, we
27:03
do see that petulance side. So where do you stand on him as
27:06
a captain? Should it be captain in this
27:11
current crop? Yes.
27:12
Like I don't tell you any buyers that we could see deserves to be
27:15
captain ahead of him. I can say that and say however,
27:19
that I would have taken the 100 mil for him at the beginning of
27:23
the window. OK, interesting.
27:26
I don't know if him staying on was depend on lower and very
27:31
more to lower Shesco and potentially other players
27:35
because if you're a young player, you're looking at
27:36
projects. You're either going to give me a
27:39
fat wage or you can tell me, listen, easy men in my team
27:43
currently Disney football, we're trying to play this where we can
27:45
potentially go and you can be a part of that.
27:48
And if Bruno is there, then you could say, OK, cool, they've got
27:51
the best player. They aren't selling out.
27:54
You know, we could buy into this.
27:55
However, if we are saying that we cash strapped 100 million.
28:00
I tried to understand PSR so she's off your trait and be bunk
28:05
it and explain. Man, it's so boring, but yeah.
28:08
It's only we are dictated if you get 100 million, let's say you
28:12
bought to buy three players with 100 million, you could actually
28:16
spend 300 million because you can be able to amortise it all
28:21
across the time. And so you could actually
28:23
rebuild the squad. I mean and look at.
28:25
That was a good explainer, Carlos.
28:27
You could. You could easily.
28:28
You easily know, even though that you even know what
28:32
amortisation is. It's perfect impressive.
28:37
But if you look, I knew people saying no he's our talent.
28:39
Movie can't get rid. Liverpool became Liverpool after
28:42
Pitino seal, PSG after and Bapi. Actually, Sporting became
28:50
Sporting after Bruno left and that's that's very different
28:54
because of wages, funds and what's not.
28:57
But you can sell your best player and if you reinvest it
29:01
well be somebody parts or somebody who is better than one
29:06
player being a Talisman. So I would have definitely taken
29:10
the 100 mil. With that being said, I feel
29:12
like Bruno is somewhere that would be a very good is captain.
29:16
So before this decision is made, we've got a few leaders Bruno
29:20
wanted to do on the leadership group, even drive the standards.
29:22
Like it was so disheartening and also heartwarming that you same
29:27
thing to see him walk off with Embramo because that really
29:30
shows the kind of human side that he has to.
29:33
And you always see him interacting with players on
29:35
social media. You could tell by the responses.
29:38
They kind of jump you in because it's playful back and that type
29:40
of thing. But in the midst of a shootout,
29:44
the new signing missed the penalty.
29:46
That knocks us, so we know the backlash you'll get.
29:49
He could have easily started to have some introspection.
29:52
Could I have been better? What could I have done?
29:54
And all the players just walked off.
29:56
Your safety becomes a big concern.
29:58
All the facts running on, he walks to embrace more, he puts
30:02
his hand around him and ensures that he's not doing our walk of
30:05
shame by himself. And he got a video wrong with
30:08
people right in front of the face and doing some gestures
30:10
that are nasty and what's not. But that is the type of person
30:13
that Bruno is. However, when you are the leader
30:18
and I've had to learn this as a captain myself, I am the typo.
30:22
I was a petulant but aggressive. I'd have a boy at you.
30:25
You can have me back once we get off with Passionate.
30:28
Passionate, passionate. Passionate but in a.
30:31
Like in the South Sand a couple of weeks ago.
30:34
But in a in a tight situation or in the middle of a game, you
30:38
want calmness and some of my best times as a skipper has been
30:44
when I've been at my calmness. One of my good friends is
30:47
Dominic Drake's and he always talks to me about him breaking
30:50
up during Cpl and he had to ball the last over and I walked to
30:56
him and they just said just look around, enjoy it, embrace it,
31:01
whatever you do is well done. And then just before he last
31:05
ball, I think they needed two runs to win off 1 ball, 1 wicket
31:09
and I just walk up to him, patter my back, you got this.
31:13
It'll all be well type of thing. Like no pressure.
31:16
It wasn't what ball to ball we gotta do this, we gotta do that.
31:20
It was just scam and he always tells me about that, like that's
31:24
why it comes out. He's felt the most reassured.
31:27
So I've grown as a leader because I've learned to be more
31:31
calm in situations where persons are looking to me for
31:34
leadership. I think United missed that.
31:38
That's a really good point, Carlos.
31:39
Like we're all massive sports fans and it doesn't matter which
31:43
sports the the greats and the Goats, they always talk about
31:46
that, that moment of time when you know, whether you're
31:50
shooting for for a free, you know, a free points in
31:53
basketball, taking a penalty in a World Cup final or you need to
31:57
get a wicket or hit six off the last ball.
31:59
Brain almost like slows everything down and like time
32:03
slows down and like you got this calmness, you know, probably the
32:07
likes of Christian piano Messi in their peak they always talk
32:10
about. So that's a really good point in
32:12
terms of, you know, like what the pressures like at the top.
32:16
But also, I just wanted to touch on, you know, going back to the
32:20
Bruno situation with Saudi, where did he stand on
32:24
effectively the club allowing Bruno to decide his future?
32:28
Like should the board have been more stronger in terms of like,
32:32
OK, if we are looking to the future, we do need money to, you
32:35
know, say, like you said, re strengthen the team.
32:38
Shouldn't the club decide whether he should be going?
32:41
Do you think it was right that Bruno basically got to decide I?
32:44
Think, I actually think that shows healthy communication.
32:48
If Bruno was not in the plans, I suspect again, we all
32:51
speculating, none of us really know, but I suspect there would
32:55
have been conversations throughout the end of last
32:57
season about where the team goes, who you want to get rid
33:01
of, who you want to bring, a type of profiles, etcetera.
33:05
And Bruno would have been central to that.
33:07
Obviously from what we see, things played out and if that
33:11
was the case, I could see it being a conversation where the
33:16
board, Amarin are deciding, well these are the players you want,
33:19
we want to build their own whatever, easy players reward
33:23
getting all the profiles and then someone says knock, knock.
33:27
We got offer for 100 mil for Bruno, we can pay him our
33:31
astronomical wage and then you go to Bruno and you say you're
33:34
the skipper, We want to build something massive around you.
33:40
However, at 29, I think it was 299010 or we said 30.
33:44
Now you have the chance to go to Saudi and play it for three 4-5
33:50
years. To be honest, bro, to get little
33:52
40 like Ronaldo, Well, let's say yeah, 3-4 years.
33:56
I met 100 million over the course of our time, which is
33:59
like changing money for you, your family and it could be out
34:04
of the spotlight and the jeopardy of the EPL United and
34:08
you can enjoy your football. Some players would take it.
34:12
And I think that if the conversation was, do you want to
34:15
go or do you want to, do you want life on easy or life on
34:19
hard, like extra hard, which is paying for less money with more
34:23
scrutiny and us in the middle or the start of a project versus
34:28
just being slapped into a Saudi team, making a lot of money and
34:32
jumping off into sunset. And it'll be more said that, you
34:35
know, actually I want this true. Then I think that's healthy
34:38
communication and you start communication that the board and
34:42
the management should be having as flitters.
34:45
So I don't know if they should have.
34:49
I think if it was a case where they were really cash strapped,
34:52
they should have said, listen, you need to bow because we need
34:55
this cash. The project doesn't start unless
34:59
you leave then as a completely different situation to saying do
35:03
you want to bow? So maybe they've got a few more
35:05
dollars now we know. Well, yeah, I mean, I, I really
35:09
like the way you explain that because you give an insight to
35:12
the listeners as well about the decisions that the family have
35:15
to make, right, in terms of what we perceive as like crazy money
35:20
anyway. But it's like this level is
35:22
right. And you know, we'll talk about
35:24
it later when we we talk about the cricket, but you know,
35:26
franchise cricket, you know that that brings the same kind of
35:30
like disparity. Yes, Steve, I think you wanted
35:32
to obviously go on to Ineos right from that Brunei
35:35
discussion. So yeah, I guess before we move
35:38
on to cricket, I think there's one kind of final area on a
35:40
touch on with you, Carlos, and that's kind of like the
35:42
ownership. So I think that over the last
35:45
10-15 years, even when Fergie was here, when the Glazers first
35:48
come in 2005, you know, there was unrest within the fan base.
35:53
You know, Fergie won trophies up until 2013.
35:56
So the unrest wasn't massive. And then I think over the last
35:58
decade where we've won less trophies, we've had all these
36:02
managers, you know, the narrative is changed to kind of
36:05
blame the glazes, right? And you know, we've seen lots of
36:07
glazes out campaigns. So I it's kind of a two-part
36:11
question. One is, I assume you agree with
36:14
that narrative around, you know, the glazes have messed up.
36:17
If not, please tell us. And secondly, what do you see
36:21
the change that NES have made? Do you see positives or
36:24
negatives? Because again, there's been a
36:26
lot of negative stories, right? You know, whether it's Dan
36:29
Ashworth, the way they chased him and then let go of him, the
36:32
way they treated 10 Hog, you know, the redundancies, we could
36:36
go on and on and on, right? So tell me like how how you see
36:39
the ownership both from a Glazer perspective and Ineos?
36:42
Yeah, I got like green and gold scarf as well.
36:44
Blazers. Oh, I think the governance of
36:48
the game really going to come under the microscope if you're
36:51
going to allow someone to buy a club and not put any of their
36:55
money into it and not only that, saddle it with debt, previously
36:59
being a debt free club. So when or opposing where you
37:03
go, fans come and say oh y'all only got your Norwich scarfs?
37:06
No, because you're losing. Well your Norwich scarfs were
37:09
out well before that. And then you go on the same
37:12
breath to say we're losing money because we got a debt.
37:14
We got a debt because it was put on by the owners when they got
37:18
the club. So if you don't understand the
37:20
situation, shut up any of us. I'm into sinking shit and I've
37:26
actually put money into the club.
37:28
So they have put more money into the club in what, 2 years, Less
37:31
than two years than the Blazers have put six, 2005, which is
37:35
crazy to me and yet I still love to take up dividends every
37:40
single quarter. I think it is.
37:42
So I again, these things take time.
37:46
Like we're not talking about our village Cricket Club or Sunday
37:51
league football. Where if you look like the right
37:55
tag mob, somebody could jump, jump down to Sports Direct by 15
38:00
kits and all of a sudden you go on from everybody in white
38:03
shirts, some torn, some look pristine to be in red and blue.
38:08
And then we got a new identity and everybody's like wow, y'all
38:11
are serious. Like it's not that level.
38:16
There's a lot more to go on behind the scenes.
38:19
You're talking about a massive company and massive corporation.
38:22
So there'll be things done that we can't see that is being done
38:26
and then unveiled. Like the response to the new
38:30
character. Like we didn't see every nut,
38:34
screw and ball that was being inserted.
38:37
We didn't see every liquor paint that was being painted.
38:40
But when you see it is a wall. So you've come in and done that
38:44
and let's be honest, revamping the training centre should not
38:49
be a wow. That's just where we are.
38:52
We're not. Should be standard, right?
38:54
Should be standard. Well now they came back and said
38:57
why are you seeing people here from however long ago?
39:01
Why are you swimming pool the same?
39:02
Why is everything the same? Like we are operating much like
39:08
the rest of these with the 1980s and 1990s mindset and we'll be
39:12
to compete in 2025. And what any us have done is
39:16
come in and basically say, OK, this is a shit show.
39:19
There are 100 things that need to be done, but we are going to
39:23
do item 123. And then the people, well,
39:28
they're saying, well look at item 94, you haven't done that.
39:32
And they're like, yeah, but we'll get around to it.
39:33
Like we can't do everything one time.
39:36
So I'm not saying that they have been faultless either, but
39:40
they've tried to put a football structure in place.
39:43
We we were one of the only top teams or top clubs in the world
39:47
to not have a proper footballing structure where he sculpts,
39:51
report into a director of football, the director of
39:54
football chooses. We started to play what type of
39:57
profiles you buy and then you get together and you pick a
40:01
manager. So if we look at the success of
40:05
any host. Or lack thereof.
40:07
What I will look at is we look at moving from Van Hall to
40:12
Mourinho to Olie to Rania like 4 different styles.
40:17
Eggs with. Oh, you've included Rania?
40:20
Somewhere there, like they had so many different styles, a
40:23
director of football would have said OK, we want three at the
40:27
back manager or we want somewhat players 433.
40:31
We want someone that players are wingers and if you don't suit
40:34
that, you don't come. That's why Ameren didn't go to
40:36
Liverpool because Adamant is truly back.
40:39
Liverpool said no, you'll get a fourth back manager got slot,
40:43
slot didn't have to go and buy players.
40:45
If we look at what NES have done now and who they've bought,
40:48
let's say A4 at the back, manager comes, Kunia can play
40:51
and Bermo can play, Chesco can play a Mad, it's still there.
40:55
All the players that they've bought can be no flipped and
40:59
flexible enough to play in a 40 bar, a tree in the middle, A2 up
41:03
top, A1 up top, whatever the case may be.
41:06
So I would say that up until now you have not been faultless.
41:11
Obviously you never want to see people losing your job, but if
41:15
you see some of the numbers, the levels of staff that was at
41:19
other big clubs versus the levels of staff that was at
41:22
United, like you have to understand why the club was
41:26
bleeding money. You pay five people to do the
41:29
job of one or two people. One, they're not going to be as
41:33
efficient because they're going to be less accountability.
41:36
And two, you're obviously spending more money than you
41:38
need to because two people could do this job for five.
41:40
Now, I don't know if that was the case for everything or if
41:43
some people that should have should not have been let go,
41:46
indeed have been let go. I sympathise with anyone that
41:49
have lost a job in the process because it's tough.
41:52
No one job, some people in two or three to meet ends meet.
41:55
So I am sitting here happy as in my when they found that some
41:59
people lost their job. Definitely not.
42:01
But by the same token, if you look at it from a purely
42:04
business perspective, if you've now trimmed the workforce and
42:07
spending less money and wages and it frees up more budget for
42:11
us to be better on the field, then it's a tough sacrifice that
42:15
had to be made. And the way that they've
42:17
recruited so far, most if not all have been ripped.
42:21
You're the late Mazarovi, Shasco and Bramore Konya.
42:25
Probably still too early to judge straight in.
42:29
Yeah, all of them have been wins and all of them can play in the
42:32
back 4, back three and it just sets up Amarin moving forward if
42:36
they do continue with him or the next manager for that matter, to
42:40
have a squad similar to what Slot came into where.
42:44
You don't have to know by players for your formation.
42:48
You buy good players that can play multiple formations.
42:52
So Carlos, if you were, you know, for the listeners, what
42:56
would be your message then about Ineos?
42:58
Like if you were to summarise it just like a short note to the
43:01
fans. My new fans don't hear anything
43:06
positive. My not a problem.
43:11
It doesn't sell. It doesn't.
43:12
Sell, no. Go for it, man.
43:14
But no. But I think it's been positive
43:15
so far. They've tried with their hands
43:19
tied behind the back of sorts, and they're trying to do things,
43:23
in my opinion, the way that it should be done, get a proper
43:26
footballing structure in place. They've put their own money in
43:29
the revamp. Carrington Yeah.
43:32
I mean, the jury's still out. So the battle of who we can
43:36
acquire before the transparent deal closes.
43:39
But up until now I can't say that they've been bad.
43:43
Let's say that they haven't been faultless, but in my opinion
43:45
they haven't been bad. It looks as though they're
43:47
trying to build something. They have been quite ruthless at
43:50
times and then they haven't been and they can see down and leave
43:53
again with the arms, whereas we let kind of continue and the end
43:57
thing. But then after work they got
43:59
with him because you realise I made a mistake.
44:01
So over a period of time we can start to see it being 6 to 4-5
44:05
or five, seven to three, whatever.
44:07
Now we can say, OK, y'all have had 2 1/2 to three years now
44:11
this is what we think. But up until now, I take the
44:13
building something and the signings that they've made have
44:16
been good so far. Yeah, fair enough, Carlos.
44:20
I think what's clear from that segment on Manchester United is
44:23
you know your stuff, Carlos. I think you are probably one of
44:26
the most, that's like the most informed Man United opinion I've
44:30
think we've had on the pod. I've been I've been used for
44:33
long depressed. Well Carlos, when we take over
44:36
the club because it will happen in the future, don't worry.
44:39
You got a, you got a spot on the board.
44:41
Don't worry. I'll hold you to that.