Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 75: Jamieson Doyle Taylor - From Athletic Dreams to Legal Success and Sports Entrepreneurship

Transcript

75: Jamieson Doyle Taylor - From Athletic Dreams to Legal Success and Sports Entrepreneurship · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I was always encouraged by my parents to make sure I was focusing on studies.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I think everyone knew that I was passionate about sport as a young boy and that there was always that you never know if you're going to make it, so make sure you've got something else to fall back on and don't neglect your studies.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: And I never did as a teenager, and that was a good thing for me, a blessing if you like, because it meant that when I was put into a situation where I had to do something different, I was actually able to do that, and I know a lot of athletes they were to suffer a similar sort of injury.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They might not be in such a fortunate position that they'd be able to divert down a different path like I was able to do.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: So for me it was really a case of all right.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to pursue sport as a career endeavour.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to do something else.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I've got good enough grades as a student to pursue a law degree, so let's do that.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: There was some level of apprehension about that, given the difficulties I was having with respect to completing exams and so forth in that final year of high school.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Ryan God-Salvez and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Jameson, thanks for joining me on the show today.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Thanks.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Ryan, it's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Bit dreary outside here in Melbourne typical sort of winter's morning here so good to be sitting inside and chatting with you.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Good man, I've got to say that it is for a winter's day here in Sydney.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: It is absolutely gorgeous, so we've still got to love.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: We've got to love being in Australia, so it's a great place to be it certainly is Now just saying all playing true to form.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Sydney the nice, perfect morning in Melbourne miserable and rammed.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: True to form.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: That's about right.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: There we go.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I might have to go to the beach today just to remind myself that I'm here, not in Leeds.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah well, actually, before we do kick off, I have to ask how's your AFL season finishing?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: So the AFL season.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: So, just for the guests or anyone who doesn't know, I coach a women's AFL team on the Gold Coast and we had a tough season and bowed out ahead of the finals.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: And I also play at the same club, labrador, in the Friday Night League, which is a great, a great team that I'm a part of and we train once a week and play on the Friday nights, and we got ourselves into a pretty strong position over the course of the season, finished third and gave ourselves a double chance going into finals.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: But all we managed to do with that double chance was blow it essentially.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So we bombed out in straight sets in the finals, which was a disappointing way to end what was a pretty good season otherwise.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a shame I was hoping you're going to say.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: But we smashed it at the double, at the second chance, Second chance, yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I think you knew we missed out in the first one in a close game, and then we were upset in our second bite of the cherry and that was the end of it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: So the grand final for that will be on Friday night this weekend.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: So it would have been nice to have been playing in that, but next year I guess.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: There we go.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Well, listen, that's it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: You're building on that, as I'm sure we're going to chat through today.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: It's about that incremental improvement, performance.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: So shame.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: But onto bigger, brighter things and our conversation.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: We've caught up a few times.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: I've really enjoyed our chats, really about everything in and around sport and development and sort of individual progress, and excited about our conversation today because I think listening to you and your story certainly for those listening will get a different perspective of how we can intentionally bring sport into our life and so what that career transition looks like for you.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: So let's kick off.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: But rather than talk about, I guess, the sporting background as a jumpstart, what was your passion as you grew up as a kid?
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: What is it you?
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Where were you and what did you want to be as you grew up?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so for me sport was always the passion, but it was never the path that I ultimately went down in a professional context.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: So grew up playing Aussie rules, football and cricket.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: So it was footy in the winter and cricket in the summer for me.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And that was from a very young age and that was where my passion certainly was with respect to sports and probably drove my parents insane, you know, always running around with a ball in my hand and throwing it around the house and all that sort of thing.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So that was probably frustrating to them to no end, but for me that was where my passion was and you know, growing up I wanted to be a footballer, and whether I was good enough to or not, who knows but I ended up sustaining a traumatic brain injury in my under 18 season playing at Labrador, where I'm still playing and coaching now.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I was playing at senior level as a 16, 17 year old and sustained a pretty serious head injury and that derailed sort of any ambition I might have had to progress any further, whether I was good enough to or not, who knows but that sent me down a different path completely with respect to what I was doing.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: It led me to law school and a 10 plus year career as a private practice lawyer, when I had to come to that realization that professional sport wasn't going to be for me at that stage of my life, given the head injury that I'd sustained.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: And you know and that's such an amazing story for me, you know, opening there that head trauma that happens and there's a lot discussed at this stage on concussion head impact across sports.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: You know all across the world at the moment and you know for you going through that and we've got people I've certainly spoken to as athletes who have had to make tough decisions because of head trauma or serious injury.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: As you think back to that moment in your life, what was it for you, what were the decisions that you had to make and how tough was it to go through that?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a tough decision to make for someone who had grown up playing sport and that was something that was a major part of their life.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: And then you have an injury of that nature and it was pretty significant at the time.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: It impacted my final year of high school in a pretty major way, just with respect to being able to concentrate and study and prepare for exams and so forth.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: So it made you really take a look at you know what am I doing?
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: You know, is it sensible for me to continue playing contact sport?
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And for me, I pushed on pretty aggressively in terms of trying to come back and play.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: And there probably wasn't back then, because we're talking, you know, 20 years ago now when this happened, when I was sort of at the end of high school, if you like, and there probably wasn't the education or the information around how serious the concussion in sport issue was at that point in time.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: And so I was pushing on and looking to return to playing and finishing off my under 18 season at the time as it was.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: And you know, ultimately I returned to play after three or four months of pleading with specialists and brain doctors and whatever else to give me clearance to return to play, but you had to reflect as to whether that was a viable thing to be doing long term and ultimately, at the end of that year, you had to make a decision as to what you were going to do.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: You know, finishing high school and moving forward with your life and that's when I committed to academic studies at that point in my life.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: But there were a range of complications and behavioral things off the back of that injury that you know I would say that I carry with me to this day.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: To be honest, Right, and that must be really hard to say.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: You carry it with you to this day.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: How does it affect you today?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: It's just things like and it's something that I guess I've, it's just part of who I am.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: So you sort of just get used to and adjust to that just being part of who you are and how you operate.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: But just little things like little memory lapses, forgetting where you put something, or inability to focus or concentrate on something for prolonged periods of time relative to what you were able to do prior to the injury, and it's just small little bits and pieces like that.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: You know moments of fatigue when you perhaps wouldn't have been fatigued, that just have to be addressed from time to time.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: But it's just those little bits and pieces.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: You know just forgetfulness and concentration and fatigue that pop up.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: And a part of you know what I have to deal with and have had to deal with across the journey.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it's amazing adaptability in fact I'll just say resilience as well to have that dream Crushed early on and getting that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: You know the impact that had on that sport and career, at least on the dreams of sporting career but then your ability to turn that Into another stellar career and move down that academic side.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: So what's the business?
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: I guess you know this trailing impact that's had, at least to me, doesn't appear to have interrupted your ability to shift into a private practice lawyer.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, do you think the injury in the fact you sport in career was shortened?
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: To what extent you think that helped you focus on becoming an excellent private practice lawyer?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question, because I was always, I guess, encouraged by my parents to make sure I was focusing on studies.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think everyone knew that I was passionate about sport as a young boy and as a teenager.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: But there was always that, you know, you never know if you're gonna make it, so make sure you've got something else to fall back on and don't neglect your studies.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: And I never did as a teenager.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: And that was a good thing for me, a blessing if you like, because it meant that when I was put into a situation where I had to do something different, I was actually able to do that, and I know a lot of athletes.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: You know they want to suffer a similar sort of injury.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: They might not be in such a fortunate position that they'd be able to divert down a different path like I was able to do.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So for me it was really a case of alright, I'm not gonna pursue sport as a career endeavor, I'm gonna have to do something else.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I've got good enough grades as a student to pursue a law degree, so let's do that.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: There was some level of apprehension about that, given the difficulties I was having with respect to Completing exams and so forth in that final year of high school.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: But it was a case of you know, your grades are okay in terms of applying to do a law degree.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Let's just head in that direction and see where it goes.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And that sort of led where it led and Got me to to a point where I was able to have a pretty impressive private practice career working for some pretty major firms around the country and internationally.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: It's.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: That's a great outcome.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, and it's just a sort of one step at a time sort of thing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: From my point of view, at that point I'll start the law degree.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not thinking about what I'm gonna do in five years, ten years time, I'll just start it.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I can get through the first semester, then I'll do the second semester, sort of thing.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: What?
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: That in itself is amazing, because I was going to ask how did you know what you are going to do?
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: How did you even figure out?
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I'll just do the law degree to start with.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: You know what was that process like?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You know, was not a case of I'm so passionate about law so it's an obvious thing for me to go into.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not one of these save the world crusader types of people, or certainly wasn't at that point in time, but it was a.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It was something that I was interested in and capable with respect to the content, and it was a case, really, of once I got my results back from my secondary school studies, of just looking at what do my grades allow me to do.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm great to have been slightly better.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Perhaps I might have gone down a different path if they have been slightly worse.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I have gone down and I would have had to have gone down a different path if they have been worse.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: But it was a case of what's the best thing that I think I'm most suited to with the grades that I've got at this point in time.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: And then you know there were two or three options there and then make your decision, and it's for me it's it's about make your decision and then make your decision work.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: There's no right or wrong.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Certainly in that scenario, when you're not, when you haven't got your, your heart set on something specific, it's a case of make a decision here and then make the decision work and that's what I think I did.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, when you say about make your decision and make the decision work, tell me about that a bit more.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's a case of you are going to make a decision and there's always a what if I chose marketing?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: What if I chose psychology?
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: What if I chose some different career path altogether?
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: What if I made a decision to go and do a trade?
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: You know these are all things, that what ifs, but you're never going to know what the outcome of the what if is.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: So for me it was a case of you've made a decision, finish what you started, and that's something that I'm sort of big on personally if you start something, finish it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: So I sort of made the decision to start it and, unless it was a case of I just physically couldn't do it because of my injury and I was sort of forced to withdraw from it, I was going to persevere with it until such point in time where I obtained the law degree, and then it would be career paths and opportunities would emerge in due course, which inevitably they did.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it, I understand, and so it's almost a no regrets.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: So make your decision and live by that decision.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: The way you described it is well, it's not binding for life, but do the semester, do the next semester, do the year?
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Great, I've got the degree.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Now what would come next?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: rather than saying, well, boom here, this is me committing to something for 15, you know, for 30 years of my life and that could become overwhelming if you look at that as a teenager, because you don't have enough life experience at that point in time to know what you really want to do.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So you're committing to something and to sit there and say this is what I'm going to do for the next 15 years of my life could become quite overwhelming for someone.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: So for me it was a case of I'm just going to make a decision and then I'm just going to turn up to the first day and then I'm just going to complete the next logical step and then allow things to unfold.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: But no regrets, you're 100% right.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe if I had made a different decision it would have been better, Maybe it would have been worse, but it's no regrets at what you've decided to do.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: It's not perfect, nothing, or it really is perfect, but don't regret.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I think would be the key message there.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Back your decision, back your judgment and then just push forward with purpose and intent and things will unfold for you in due course, I love that, thank you.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing that.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: You did talk there about private practice and we opened up with a conversation about you playing and you coaching as well.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: During your professional career as a lawyer, how did sport remain in your life?
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: At that period of time, I probably went through a phase where I was a bit upset that I wasn't able to pursue what I wanted to pursue and I was in another path, but I was committed to what I was doing.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I probably went off the rails a little bit in terms of a behavioural sense and just railed against my situation in that regard From a sporting context.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I stopped playing and participating in sport because I thought that it was perhaps not a smart thing to do if I was to obtain another headknot or another serious one, but also because I thought what's the point?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I've missed the boat now, so I'm just going to focus on what I'm doing.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: There was something inside me that was a bit upset by that, but my connection to sport during that period of time was probably primarily as a fan.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: For the next five or six years I stepped away and I was still very, very much a fan of the sports that I had been participating in, but had stepped away from playing once I went down the legal path.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: The legal career ended up, in a strange way, being my sport of choice, if you like.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: It became a little game for me that I created for myself in terms of how far can I take this?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: How much can I push myself to get myself into the biggest and best ferns.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't have necessarily the best grades in the world in law school they weren't terrible, but by no stretch was I the ducks of the class.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: But I turned it into a game for myself to see how far I could push it and how far I could get with that, and that led me into some pretty exciting opportunities and gave me an ability to work with some pretty impressive legal minds in some major law firms, just because of that sort of sporting mindset that I applied to it, which is perhaps a unique way for someone coming through a law school to approach legal practice.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: But that was certainly something that I did, and with a reasonable level of success, I would say, for me.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't work for everyone, but for me I just turned it into a bit of a game and that sort of helped me to progress as far as I did probably and that's an interesting approach making it into a game.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: So I like the way you described that, as your legal career became your sport and in order for you to find that success, or a way for you to find that success has been making it again and that performance, that competitive edge, that's what continue to drive you where you wanted to go, that way and so for me it was like, instead of trying to push to be drafted by the best afl club or to make it as a cricketer or whatever it may have been, position myself and works to be involved with the biggest and most reputable law firms that were available to me, and that was sort of how I defined my success in the law game, if you like yeah, I like that.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Some good lesson there to take is how to find the game, how to, I guess, unleash that competitive spirit in what essentially would then be, you know, a day to day normal job.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I can put in that that's right and you know, turning up into a law firm and just reading document and whatever else pretty mundane compared to running around with your mates and keeping the football around and getting tackled and and all the fun stuff.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: So you had to try and turn it into something that was a bit more fun and I was able to do that, which was good right.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: That's interesting and I think the way coming to sort of where we are today, your career has taken another turn, or at least you are starting to make that shift, and so I'm curious about was there a moment or series of events that have inspired you to start bringing your passion for sport and your competitive edge in in legal together?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: yeah, it's a good question and I think it comes down to I think I touched on it earlier that there was something inside me you know that I wanted to unleash and and there was a part of me that you know.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been able to turn this legal career into a bit of a game for myself.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: You know I still wasn't involved in the sporting industry other than you know as a, as a fan, and you know that's where I wanted to be.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And it was a case of, you know, I've got some incredible experience and connections and various other bits and pieces in terms of skills and so forth that have come as a result of that legal career.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: How can I use those to forge my own path in the sporting industry?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And you know, by that point, when you sort of early 30s, you're pretty comfortable that you're not going to make it as a professional footballer or whatever the case may be, that you also come to a realization that you know there's other ways that you can be involved in the industry and add value to the industry.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: And for me it was a case of how can I use my existing skills, experiences, networks, etc.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: To forge my own path in the sporting industry.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: And the most obvious step, at the point in time that I was having those sort of internal discussions, was to go and get accreditation as a afl player agent.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Now, with the thinking being that or one of the primary functions of an agent or a player manager is contract negotiation, and that, being a transactional lawyer, was precisely what my skill set was.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: So it was sort of like let's do this and then that gets you a foot in the door.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I see that the table, if you like, and it's again.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: It's similar, I guess, to what I said earlier about starting the law degree, turning up for the first semester, that sort of thing.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It was a case of, alright, let's go and get the accreditation as a player agent.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And there was a course that you had to go and do that and on site down here in melbourne a few years ago, and it was a case of let's do all the things that you need to do to get that accreditation and we'll see what happens from there.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: That's led to me, you know, returning to playing, to all of a sudden coaching and various other opportunities opening up off the back of that that I wouldn't have even anticipated at the time.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: But it's just funny how you take those first initial steps and things start to open up, not necessarily how you would have planned or what you were intending, but that things open up and opportunities start to present themselves when you have that courage to take that first step and that first for a, if you like, into a different industry.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And I guess it's the same almost in reverse with respect to athletes who have spent that first part of their career you know, like yourself, playing at a professional level as a soccer player and all of the athletes in various sports having that first part of their career as a professional sports person.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: What's the transition like after that?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: It's almost like I've done it in reverse.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, it is in some respects, but I would actually say it's a bit like a sandwich.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: So you started off with that passion and that desire to become a pro rules footballer.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: You've taken this talk bulk of your career, getting into that 30s as a legal practice lawyer, hold a specific skill, honing a set of specific skills and capabilities, and now you are bringing them back together again.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Bring in sport and these new skills together and that has a wonderful parallel for athletes listening and I'll say, for anyone listening who thinks how can I take what I'm good at and what I'm doing today and merge that with what I'm passionate about?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And hopefully there's a recipe there for someone to follow who's listening, because I think that if you can merge your skills and experiences together with something that you're passionate about, you can create something pretty meaningful and that's different for everyone, like someone who's been involved in professional sport as an athlete will have some pretty specific skills, but then when they're playing days come to an end, how can they use those skills and merge them with something that they're passionate about, some sort of initiatives, some sort of business, investing different career paths, whatever it might be, but merging the skills, because there's some pretty impressive skills that someone who is a high performance, you know athlete picks up over time.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And it's just, I think, in empowering them to realize that they have some pretty, pretty cool skills that they can use to bring other passions that they have to life.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely right, and finding them is getting that confidence, to unleash them as part of their second win is something that has, you know, I think, is quite challenging.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: You know that, but it is a stepped process that individuals can go through.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: How did you find, then, that confidence and clarity for you to say, okay, it's time for me to merge these two together and this is the first step that I'm going to take?
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I think it's.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: It's just a case of of backing yourself and being prepared to adjust on the run.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: You know I'm still very much learning and making things up as I go, but it's about just having that, that courage to take the first steps and adjust and learn from your mistakes as you go, and I know that's very much been how it's been for me.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: It's just been having that willingness to take the first steps and being Open and receptive to feedback and to ways that you can improve and do things differently, and just being humble enough to take on advice and suggestions and things like that from people that have gone ahead of you.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: But just, I guess the point that I would make would be just having the courage to take the first steps without necessarily knowing exactly what the full path might look like.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I think one Saying that I use a little bit is you know, every marathon run starts with the first steps, and that's very much the case for me with my sort of for into the sporting landscape, and I've run a couple of marathons over the years and it's very true.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: You know, when you start out on the journey as a distance runner, you might not think that it's possible to run forty two days, but start by running one day, and then you can send up run five, and then all the sudden tens not such a big deal and then in time you're able to run that marathon.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: But if you don't take those first steps you'll never run it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: So that's the sort of yeah, love that I'm thinking.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Then now you've you started off on A new marathon, a new race, and when you think about that, this business for you, if I will tell me about your business, tell me about what it is that you doing today so once I obtained that accreditation as a player agent or around the same time, I found a sports agency and I'll set this up and let it just grow and and and evolve into whatever it turns into.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And I started it up primarily To be a management agency g2g sports is the name of the agency and it's grown over time to become a business that offers player management, coaching and consulting services, and still very much growing that business out.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: It's something that is designed to just support athletes to obtain the best out of themselves and to get the best possible life set up so that they can concentrate on their sports but be prepared for their transition when they're when their retirement Ultimately comes.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: You know, mindful that that was my experience, going the other way and just having something where I can speak from my experience with respect to supporting athletes and talking to them about the importance of having something to transition to.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And you be well aware, like, no matter how good you are, whether it's as an athlete, whether it's as someone playing football, cricket, whatever the case may be, you can be the best in the world at your sport, but your playing days will come to an end.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: There's an inbuilt redundancy there in professional sport, and it's just about Creating something that puts support around athletes so that they can transition, so that they do have the ability to have that second wind and be able to search with confidence into whatever it might be for them once they're playing days come to an end.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: So that's what was the real driver behind setting up the sports agency g2g sports Think it's a great story.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: So it's a wonderful narrative around how you found that passion and how you've been able to mesh your that interest, your interest, your love of sport and your proven abilities as a lawyer and, you know, pulling that together to support that next generation coming through a bath.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I think it's absolutely wonderful and you know it brings you back into the sport.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: You know the sport where you know distance to yourself from you know for a period of time and now you've now embraced it again and hopefully things you know certainly do continue to thrive.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: So I think I think that's wonderful.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: No, it is, and appreciate the comments that's.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: That's what it has been for me an opportunity to reconnect with the sport that I had distance myself from, and that was something I wanted to create, something that I could add value to the industry and sport that I Care and had so much love for, and hopefully I've been able to support it in some meaningful way and will continue to do so?
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: yeah, absolutely.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: So you know you've spoken a bit about the impact that you want to have or you're having with athletes and supporting them off field so they can concentrate, and what they're doing on field.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Curious just a little bit about the steps you had to take.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: So there is a gap between getting the qualification, as you did, and running a business and getting clients or meeting things.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Can you just shed a bit of light on what that process was like for you?
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Look to be honest, it's an ongoing process and it's just about having conversations with people.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Discussions like this are really meaningful for me to have the opportunity to share the story and hopefully add some value or give some ideas to some of your listeners, and it's that the exciting part has been the running of a business, I guess, and that almost becoming like a sport in a sense.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: You go from a career where you're a professional and working in a high pressure, high performance environment in major law firms.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Expectation is not dissimilar.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have thought to those of required of elite, high performance athletes, but it's about then going into business on your own and then, all of a sudden, there's a whole bunch of different hats that you have to wear, when you're not any longer just the worker, if you like, and you've got to establish a brand and you've got to do all the other bits and pieces that are needed to run a business.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm still very much working that out and making mistakes and learning from them as I go.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I feel as though I'm getting better.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I see myself almost like someone who drafted as a player early on, and first year you're in the big league and you're the new kid on the block and you're not that crash hot.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And then you learn a bit and you improve and you get better in the second year and soon enough you have your breakout year, and that's the way that I sort of look at it.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It's just about just getting better and better.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: There's certainly people that are more experienced and the high performers, if you like, in the space that I'm operating now, but that's something for me to aspire towards and something for me to work towards, and it's just about again treating it as a game, having fun with it and just learning about the sport of business, if you like, as you venture into this landscape.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: So it's with excitement and with great challenge as well, but for me I wouldn't have it any other way.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: If you're in a sporting landscape, you like the challenge and the competition, and that's something that's been pretty enjoyable for me it's great.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: I just love listening to you talk there and you know it's funny.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: You've just changed one of the phrases that I talk about.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: I talk about the business of sport and you know you just said they're the sport of business and I think it just.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: You know it's that sort of approach that you've taken to it and one that actually now I'm thinking you know what I like, that I'm going to use that.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: I think we've got the name of this podcast episode, but you know it is really about turning into a sport, because sports something we love to do, it's something that inspires us and energizes us, and looking at the sport of business is great.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's use that.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: That's cool, arkin, we can run with that and see where we can take it?
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Now look, jameson, I've enjoyed this conversation and I know we've got so many more to come as our pursuits come together more and more when you think of the athletes that you work with.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: But when you think of athletes who are going to go through that trauma, that injury that has to make them change path, what sort of guidance or considerations would you give to them?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question and I think it's just having that never give up attitude.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: It's inevitable that you're going to face setbacks and hurdles and have obstacles to overcome.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You know there's been situations with respect, to put the injury aside, but just the foray into business where you feel as though you've been knocked out and KOed, and that's the entrepreneurial journey.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I guess there's points in time where you're sitting there going why am I doing this?
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Like I could just go and sit in the law firm and have a pretty comfortable existence.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But just remember why you started, and that will be different for everyone, but when you face those setbacks, you know, remember why you started, remember what's important to you you know that might be family, there might be other personal motivators that are driving athlete or other people listening to this but just remembering why you started, having that resilience to keep persevering when you inevitably face setbacks and I would say inevitably, because whether it's injury or whatever else, there's always going to be setbacks in life and it's just about your willingness to keep persevering when faced with those and it's just about trying to find the enjoyment or the lesson in the difficult circumstances.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: So I always think rejection is redirection for me and you might not see that at the time, but on reflection you can look back and see things as a redirection and I've had opportunities and people that I've met as a result of, you know, my injury that I would never have met if that hadn't not happened.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: And there's always a silver lining in any circumstance, no matter how difficult it might seem at the time.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: So it's just about being prepared to look for that, because it will be there if you're open to finding it.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Jamie send, thank you for joining me on the podcast today and sharing your story.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, ryan, thanks for having me, and look forward to chatting with you more and more as our journeys progress.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Awesome, thank you.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the second wind podcast.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step?
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty book design, Nancy from savvy podcast solutions and Siris from copying content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: That's all from me.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Take it easy until next time.