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GOON ROYALE EPISODE 4: Home Alone Homicide · Breaking Mayberry

• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Goon Royale, a podcast that's a
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: fucking meat grinder. People go in one end and riffs
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: come out the other. Here to turn the handle, I'm
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: your host, Dan Ludwig.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Kiss me in front of my son, I'm Marty Schneider.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: The check is in the mail, this is David Dylan Thomas.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Host of the White Meat Podcast, director of the White
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Meat Movie. David Dylan Thomas.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: How's it going, y'all? Good.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I've been tempted to just call you Director Thomas the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: entire time.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: That makes me sound like I'm running an academy or something.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Headmaster Thomas.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Director Thomas would like an update.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Dave, do you want to give us an update? Let's see,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: you've been on our show twice now.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I keep getting that Marty and Dan bump. That keeps happening.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: But, well, you want to give us the update on things?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Because it's been about, I don't know, eight months since
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: you were on.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: For Breaking Bad.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: So that is White Meat, the feature, which I want
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: to make, and then White Meat Appetizer, the short film
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I did make in the hopes of generating interest for
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: the feature. So since we've talked, I actually finished that movie.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: We've had it in a few festivals. We've had some
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: private screenings. People are loving it. We got to screen it.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: We premiered at the Pan African Film Festival along with
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: a short documentary. that was produced by Monkey Paw, Jordan
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Peele's company. So there were some Monkey Paw.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: People in the audience.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: So you kind of can't ask for a better premiere
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: than that. They apparently enjoyed it very much. So we're
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: doing really well. We're having lots of screenings, which is
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: the strategy for this year, is just to show it
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: to as many people as possible so that when we
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: start asking for money for a feature next year, we're
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: in a good place. And if your lovely listeners would
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: like to know more, they can find us on Instagram
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: at whitebeatmovie.com. or our website, whitemeatmovie.com.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Promos up front. Dave, you ready to talk about some
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: action shit?
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I am always ready to talk about some action shit.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: This is the chaos bracket, which I think is the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: strongest section of the whole one. And I was like,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I'm giving Dave first pick on this. What made you
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: want to do this area?
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I think I read The Raid and thought it was Raiders,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, I love Raiders, and I already
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: picked my best kill from it. No, I'm just kidding. No, no,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: this is a fun bracket, and it lets me revisit
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: some films I haven't seen in a while. So yeah,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I think that's kind of what intrigued me. But for real, though,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I've already decided that the best goon kill ever is
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: in Raiders, so we'll see how the other people vote,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: and then I'll complain later.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I think I know which one you're talking about.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think everyone who just heard me say Raiders
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: and Goon Kill knows which one I'm talking about.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Literally when Dan pitched this idea, that kill was the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: one I said, oh, like, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, redacted.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Because that's not the movies we're talking about today. Dan,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: what are the movies we're talking about today? All right.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: We are talking about The Raid vs. Violent Night and Dread,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: not Judge Dread, Dread. Versus Big Trouble in Little China.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: We are judging them by best goon kills. The way
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: that henchmen, thugs, and followers are shot, stabbed, defenestrated, and
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: generally wasted. Yeah, you guys want to jump right into
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: our first matchup?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: First, I want to get really geeky and say, do
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: you know the difference between defenestration and trans-defenestration?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Tell me immediately.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Can I take a guess?
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, please.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Defenestration is being thrown out a window from the inside
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: trans defenestration is being thrown into a building from the
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: outside no but.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: We need a word for that no trans defenestration is
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: being thrown through a window the window is not open
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: oh a crucial yeah distinction and again we can do
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: a whole other bracket around.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: That yes okay okay it took me a second to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: figure that So in Beverly Hills Cop... Out a window
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: versus through a window.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: In Beverly Hills Cop, when Axel Foley is thrown through
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: the closed window and it shattered glass onto the sidewalk
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: from Victor Maitland's art gallery, that is trans-defenestration. Now you've all...
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: The more you know.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, so my... I think those definitions should be flipped
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: because I think... I don't think defenestration and think the
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: window is already open. I think breaking glass. So it
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: should be trans defenestration is defenestration but the window is
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: open that just seems like just completely counterintuitive.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I do now need a word for the opposite being
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: thrown yeah i.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Know i mean it doesn't happen a lot but i'm
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: sure it happens.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I've seen it happen at least in a couple at
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: least one western i'm pretty sure it happens in 310
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: to yuma.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Um wouldn't it just be fenestration i guess that's true
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: fenestration is being thrown and trans fenestration is being thrown
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: into a closed window or is just fenstration just the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: status of being near a window and.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: It's okay i think we should spend the rest of
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: the podcast talking about this all right.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Fuck we do need to do a defenstration bracket.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Now shit okay i'm.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Gonna be doing brackets for the rest of my natural life.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: You literally, before we were recording, was saying that just
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: when you get bored at work, which is often, just
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: do this.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: At least once a week, Dan's like, can we do
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: another bracket for the podcast that involves this? And I'm like, bro,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: we're doing this fucking goon thing for the next eight
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: and a half years, all right?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: You set us up. I will be a retiree before
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: we get to your next idea.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, fuck.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: This batch, though, before I said we need to hit record, Dave,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: you pointed out, this is a weird batch of movies.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: This is, two of them are the same movie, and
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: not the ones that are up against each other. One
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: of them is a bonkers and, dare I say, genius
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: mashup of kung fu and, like, spiritualist horror. And then there's, like,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: you know, Santa Claus killing people. And yet they are
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: all full of goons. So by that, by that metric,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: it's actually a very good fertile ground for goon face-offs. Yeah.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And we, we have a lot of blended blends here
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: of like our, our high fantasy semi grounded magical realism.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to call violent night. At least it's
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: more realistic and more real than big trouble is. Then
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: you have like hyper realism, like, the raid, and then
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: you have, take that hyper realism, but there's sci-fi psychics
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: in it. And that's dread.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So I love this batch. This is, I think I
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: said it last time, but this is still, we've done
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: four of these. This is my favorite batch so far.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like you have, you have three diehard derivatives. Yeah.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: And you have one that is sort of connected to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the raid in that it's sort of a, a Kung
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Fu mashup. So there is like a constellation here. Yeah. Yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: And you could argue that, The back half of Big
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Trouble is just several raids in a row of the
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: same place. With far less competency.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is just a series of dungeon delves in
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the last half. Yes, that's exactly what it is.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: We do have two movies here where guys are hyper-competent,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: and two movies here where guys are real shit at
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: what they're doing. Yes! So, Dan, take us into our
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: undercard match.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Let's start with Dread vs. Big Trouble in Little China.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Our first movie to discuss, Dread. Directed by Pete Travis,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: but I mean really Alex Garland. Really, really Alex Garland.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, see, I was shocked when the credits started rolling
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: and they were like, written by Alex Garland.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what? Yeah. No, Pete Travis got in way
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: over his head with this movie because he like, wasn't,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: he was completely unqualified. So Alex Garland, it's like rumored,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: but all but confirmed Alex Garland steps in and like
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the latter half of making the movie. And it's like,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I got it. I'll, I'll take care of it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: We'll leave your name on. And then Peter Travis hasn't
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: really done shit ever since.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: His buddy, he's got a role for his buddy, Domino
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Gleason in this too. I didn't realize.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: I was wondering if that was him. And then I
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: saw the crest. I'm like, yep. Yeah.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize it yet. So that's his buddy. So
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: this is, it's sort of a poltergeist situation.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: It's really Alex Garland. I, I will assert, I think
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: maybe Gleason's best work. I, yeah.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: That's wild.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: He's transcendent in this. He is, you don't even recognize him.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: He's this like, I will say it is his most freak.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: fringe like away from anything you're used to seeing him
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: because he's usually sort of the either buttoned up or
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: repressed kind of British dude whether it's like cute buttoned
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: up like in the time travel movie or if it's
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: like hey i'm an imperial leader in the star wars
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: movies you.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Know i don't recognize him i don't see it but
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: that also might be because In 2012, when this movie
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: came out, I didn't know who that was.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, no.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Me neither. Like, the first time I saw this movie,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: just like, oh, look at that weird guy with the
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: stringy hair. Later, watching it this time, I'm like, is that?
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: That could be.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Is that? Yeah.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Released in 2012, and our IMDb synopsis is, Judge Dredd,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a futuristic ultra cop, mercilessly enforces the law in a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: post-apocalyptic metropolis. When a training mission goes off the rails,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: he must kill a kajillion people while scowling to the
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: best soundtrack of all time.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Wait, does the IMDb summary really say a kajillion people
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: and scowling?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: As you will see, Dave, these are all very, very
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: real IMDb synopses.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Fantastic.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: We are 100% verbatim from what we read.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Actually, just for a second, can we talk about how
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Carl Irvin has to do all his acting through his
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: grimace and stubble.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Like, that is all of it.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: That is the entire performance.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: He already doesn't have the top half of his fucking face.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and never does. He never takes the mask off
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: the entire fucking movie.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Unlike Stallone, who got it off as quickly as possible.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And he still, he can't make facial expressions because Judge
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Dredd doesn't do anything other than... And he does like
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: 18 different kinds of scowls. Yes.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: It's like, how many words do the judges have for scowls?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How many variations on, yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's the other thing.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: He cannot change the tone of his voice either. He's
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: basically Robocop.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, we will not get a Dread V Robocop matchup
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: because Robocop was upset by your next.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Something I'm still freaked out about. Yeah. That's interesting.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have to watch that episode.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, so I fucking love this movie. It's
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: a modern action masterpiece.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I kind of liked it better this time just because
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: I had forgotten, like as soon as they introduce Olivia
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Thirlby as like the psychic, I'm like, yeah, but are
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: they really going to use that? That feels like just,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, that's keeping them alive through this
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: whole fucking movie. And leading to one of my favorite kills, frankly,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: which is sort of like, Hi, I'm another judge.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: No, you're not.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Bam.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. The sci-fi elements in it are really what
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: distinguishes it from a lot of other movies, like The Raid,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: which came out the year before. I really like this movie.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I've seen it probably four or five times. I'll say
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: this time around, I was like, I can see a
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: little bit of the roughness. You know, I can see.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: That might have just been because you put it in
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: a bracket with like three other great movies. So just
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: watching these all in a row, I can kind of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: see where some of the edges are. But like, I
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: don't care. This movie kicks ass. It's so much fun.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: It gets the character in a way that Stallone absolutely
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: did not do.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: How do you like not having Rob Schneider?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I'm always a fan of less Rob Schneider.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: You don't feel like maybe he could have played the
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: guy that they have to shuffle through the entire building
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: the whole time. He could have been like quipping the
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: whole time and what amazing and like fantasizing about Olivia
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Thirlby into her head.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: That's so gross.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: That would have been so much more disturbing. Like that
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: would have actually broken her. I think if she had
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: to deal with Rob Schneider's sick brain, I think she
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: would have lost.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Kay is sort of the Rob Schneider of this movie.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: But he is so much cooler.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's an unbelievably low bar.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Sure. Right, right.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, good job, man. You're cooler than Rob Schneider, who
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: was like a dumpster diver in Judge Dredd, right? He's
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: like Judge Dredd's little sidekick buddy, right?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: God, that movie sucks.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This movie... The thing I fucking love about Dredd is...
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: weird to say but it's restraint it is does not
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: give you anything other than nihilism it does not give
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: you any like big swelling orchestra like no i of
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: course there's no hugging in judge dread but there's nothing
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: within a thousand miles of hugging and friendship.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Wait are you saying that that alex garland wrote a
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: nihilist screenplay.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with distant characters whose growth is so subtle that you.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Almost don't see it. Where technology is distancing us further
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: and further. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Let me sit
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: the fuck down first.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And humanity is full of sociopaths? Yeah, damn. Alex Garland?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Alex Garland, the director? Dredd does have somewhat of an arc,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: and his whole arc is just... A lie that he
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: tells in one word in the last scene of the movie,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: in the last minute of the movie. I don't think
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Dredd has a line that is more than eight words
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: in this entire movie.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: I think only at the beginning he has to sort
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: of explain the rules of the training day.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: In his voiceover.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: It is a training day. And then that's it. Everything
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: else is like, okay, are you.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Ready, Ricky?
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: He does have monologues, but there is so much... He'll say, like,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Mama is not the law. Beat, beat, scowl, glare.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: I'm the law.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Like, there's so much space between all of his lines
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: for anger that they are separate lines.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I would believe that's in the screenplay. It literally says, like,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: in parentheses, scowl, scowl, glare. I'm the law.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Radiate hatred and anger. Ha ha ha. Oh, God, I
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: love Carl.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Urban so fucking much. There's two things before we get
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: into the nitty gritty. There's two just general notes I
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: want to say. I fucking love Lena Headey. I think
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: she's one of the best villains in what is a
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: very tough villain bracket. Again, with very little to work from.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: And I love the look of this film.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Like, just the concept of slow-mo as a drug and
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: then how they visualize that is just gorgeous.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: This movie was originally released in 3D.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I could see that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I did not see it in 3D. It's one of
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: the only movies I think I've ever seen where I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: was like, dang, I wish I had seen the 3D version.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I could imagine that. I could imagine that.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: A couple weeks ago, I saw the re-release of Speed
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Racer in 4K. like on 420 wow.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I would so go to that oh my god i
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: cried did you did you did you did you eat
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: some gummies first.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I sure did fuck yeah i sure did i took
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a large amount so i 420 i am just stoned
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: weeping with joy during watching speed racer you may.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Just answer the question i asked myself while watching dread
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: which is what movie would I want to watch while
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: on slow-mo? And I think Speed Racer is it. I
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: think Speed Racer would be incredible on slow-mo.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: That's just, it turns into Days of Thunder. Then it's
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: just like, I just, but you can appreciate.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Every second of pop color and it wouldn't be zooming
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: by you.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I watched, I watched Speed Racer on a substance. And
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that substance was one of the two times I've done
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Four Loko, which me and my friends drank Four Loko
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: before going out. And then someone put on Speed Racer
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and me on Four Loko was like, I'm going to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: sit down and enjoy the entirety of Speed Racer.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I like how you treat Four Loko like it's a drug.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to need a clarifying question.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: What is Four Loko?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, Four Loko, originally, it was an energy drink. It
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: was basically purple drink. It was like energy drink with
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: cough syrup in it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And then they sold over the counter and had to
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: ban it.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was. It was quickly made illegal because I
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: don't think anybody died from Four Loko, but people came
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: really fucking close. It was liquid blackout.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: You remember that Panera lemonade that was giving people like
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: heart palpitations in that? It was like that mixed with
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Mountain Dew.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: It was it was released my junior year of college and.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: ripped through my college campus like wildfire. Like everybody had a,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I drank Four Loko and then blank happened story. But yeah,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: this was, which it was like, I was about to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: get really rowdy on Four Loko and then Speed Racer
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: just soothed the animal.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, if you're already buzzing on
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Four Loko, Speed Racer is just a normal movie.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: You're like watching On Golden Pond.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: It canceled out. Oh, my God. So it's like taking
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: ephedrine if you're already ADHD.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: It just levels you out. Yes.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: But we're not talking about Speed Racer.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: No, we are not.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I was saying I wish that they gave that treatment
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: to Dredd. I wish that I could do that. Yes.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: I wish they gave the Speed Racer treatment to Dredd.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I would watch Dredd on 4Loco, 110%.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: In IMAX.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: All right, new bracket. New bracket. Best movies to watch
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: while on 4Loco.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: But now it's just like an energy drink. It's just
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: like Red Bull.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It's just some bullshit. This is going up against Big
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Trouble in Little China, directed by the boss, John Carpenter,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: released in 1986. IMDb synopsis. Jack Burton, the first podcaster,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: is drawn into an underground world of magic, monsters and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: martial arts. Hidden within San Francisco's Chinatown. I was a
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: little worried that this movie wouldn't hold up because I
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it in a long time. Fuck, it holds up.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I like it better now. Like, I actually, I'm here
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: let me give you my my hot take for the
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: year because I don't do hot takes The best John
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Carpenter movie is The Thing, no doubt. The second best
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: is Big Trouble in Little China. I'm not afraid to
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: say it. I'm not afraid to say it. Really?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: The things this movie is able to deliver in terms
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: of gags, in terms of cultural sensitivity by making the
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: white people the butt of every joke. The visuals, the
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: set design is goddamn incredible. And again, hot take, James
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Hong's best performance, in my opinion, although I have seen
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: one-tenth of his performances because he's been in one million films.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: But of the one-tenth I've seen, my favorite of his,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: just so many things. And everyone knows what movie they're in,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: even if they're in different movies. Because Kim Cattrall is
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: in a completely different His Girl Friday movie, and somehow
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: it still works.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Busted. And she is like... I'm a spunky girl reporter
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to break this.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Her and her exposition is like David LePan, the mystery
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: guy of Chinatown.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And like, what movie are you in lady? You're confused too.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You're confused.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Cause she's not the spunky girl reporter. There's another girl
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: that's a spunky girl reporter. She's a spunky girl human
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: rights lawyer.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: That is the other level.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: And her name is like, is like Kathy Law.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Gracie Law. Which already sounds like a CVS fucking procedural.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She puts so much mustard on it every time
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: she says her character's name. Oh my God. My name's
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Gracie Law. Like, it's so good.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Gracie Law. Jesus.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: And on the cultural sensitivity thing, fucking in the year 1986,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: John Carpenter consulted with members of the Chinese American community
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: on the sensitivity of this movie and cut scenes based
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: off of their feedback.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is insane. He had to, cause he
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: had literally every Asian actor and stunt person and martial
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: arts guy in Hollywood. They talk about this for, I
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: did a little extra credit for this and I watched
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: a little, I didn't finish it, but there's a documentary
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: called a henchman, the Al Leong story. And we'll talk
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: about Al Leong. If you don't know who he is, yes,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: you do. You've seen action movies. And they talk about
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: that in this. In 1985, they pulled every Asian actor
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and every stunt guy. And there were a lot of
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Asian stunt directors, as there still are, guys who were afraid.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: They don't want to tell anyone that they know martial
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: arts because then they're just going to be the Asian
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: martial arts guy forever. So they get into stunt work.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: This is what happened to Ki Hai Kwan until Everything Everywhere.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: He was doing stunt work for 20 years. So yeah, everyone,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: other TV shows and stuff could not get stunt people
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: because Carpenter had them all working for like eight weeks
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: straight on this.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: This is in what I call the Iron Fist era
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: where Hollywood saw Bruce Lee movies and was like, that's
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: pretty sick. But- how do we make that about a
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: white guy?
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Or a white guy or a white woman or
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: a black guy, like anyone, but an actual Asian person.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yes. So it was like, all right, he's American, but
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: he was raised in Japan and therefore can do martial arts.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: And American Ninja, ladies and gentlemen.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yes. Fucking blood sport.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And look, we're not the first people to say this,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: but it is very funny how you have Kurt Russell
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and Kurt Russell's the, the star of the movie. He's,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: on the poster. He's got the iconic look and everything.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: And at that point he's, you know, the most popular guy,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the most charismatic guy. And Jack Burton doesn't fail at everything.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's critical.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: He fails at most things.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Not like a, he's batting 300 at most. And even
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: his successes are a little bit of a loss.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: He is the perfect balance of sort of like can
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: do American optimism and which can come off really, I mean,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: it is basically the Manosphere now, with the self-awareness to
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: know when he's completely fucked up. And the awareness to
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: know when he's not in his lane. That's the thing
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: that is amazing, that I was afraid of watching it again,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: but when watching it, I'm like, oh no, he is
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: on the one hand this semi-competent. I think that's critical.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: He's not a total fuck-up. But he is a semi-competent,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: but also somewhat self-aware enough to know oh, right, I
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: don't know what's going on. I should listen to these
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: people who are telling me what's going on. And I
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: will react like a normal person, be like, what the fuck?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: But I'm also not going to be like, well, I
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: can fix this. I know, I know better than you.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: He never, ever in this movie says, I know better
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: than you.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: He, the way I like, he struck me as like,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: in a different movie, Jack Burton is a very good
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: action protagonist. Like if he is in just a normal,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: like buddy cop, like he's a, he's chasing down criminals.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: He's doing fine. He is just so out of his
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: depth with how, where he's at. He is in a
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: different strata of movie situation.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: I think, I think even though, even in sort of
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: like standard issue though, because when he fires that gun
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: in the air and just like knocks himself out, or
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: when he tries to, this is one of my favorite
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: goon kills in the movie, when he slides, very cleverly
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: slides the knife into the, the dragon guard. but then
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: he can't get it out. It's like, he's, you know
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: what it is? It's like, he's taking a course on
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: how to be an action hero, but he's only in
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: like week two.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Which makes it every time he gets a win, it feels, yes,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: it feels so much better because you're like, Did he
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: fuck it up? Did he fuck it up? No, he
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: shot that guy successfully.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: And he does get the final kill on Lopan, but
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: by his own admission, that's just reflexes. He put no
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: thought into that. He just has fast reflexes when you
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: throw something at him. So that was basically accidentally kills Lopan.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, very much. Entirely the result of Lopan underestimating him
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and getting cocky and just kind of trying to show off.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: And literally in the only way he can underestimate him,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: because in every other way, Lopin will estimate him perfectly.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: This is a dumb white guy in our little underground,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: and with the single exception of reflexes, yeah, he's a mess.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: So the first version of this script was actually, it
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: was set in the Old West, and it was a
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: gunslinger teaming up with a Chinese railroad worker.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: For pretty much the same plot.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: That's Shanghai Noon.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Basically.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: They made that movie with Jackie Chan and Owen Wilson.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but sans magic stuff. The note they got was like,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: you're already asking a lot with the Old West and
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: then you're adding all this magic shit. It's just too
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: long of a walk for 1980s audiences. They're not on
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: nearly enough coke yet. You gotta scale it back. Talk
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: to us in the late 80s. We ready for the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: first round?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're ready to rock here.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Round one, goon quality. How good are these guys before
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: they die? Let's start with dread. So we have the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: peyote kings, the red dragons, the judge, the mama gang,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the corrupt judges, and that one gangster with really beautiful hair.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: guys what are we feeling for our favorite goon in
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: this in this so there.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So first first out of the gate like all those
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: different clans get wiped out before the movie even begins
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: thank you mama it is just mama thank you now
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: her we don't really get i don't get the sense
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: that they're anything but like kmart level like standard issue
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: goons like none of them are showing hyper competency to
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: be honest they don't get much of a chance anyway
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: because right Like Dredd, I'm going to be making these
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: comparisons because it's just there. Unlike the raid, Dredd doesn't
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: really get hurt much in this one. He's able to
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: pretty much mow down whoever you put in front of him.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I don't think we get any real hyper competency until
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: we get, until he has to face off against the
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: other judges, which I love. I love that in a
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: movie where you have someone who's like hyper confident and
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh yeah, well here's other people who've had
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: the exact same fucking training. Now are you still hot shit? Like,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: I love that. So I feel like, Quality-wise, in terms
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: of being good at their jobs, the other judges are
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: probably the best at their game there. Even the guy
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: they spend the entire movie defending, his boss tells him, yeah,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you're a fuck-up. None of this would be happening if
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: you hadn't fucked up.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: It's certainly saying something that while Dan was listing these people,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: these groups, I watched this movie yesterday and I sat
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: there going, who the fuck are you talking about?
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Who the fuck is that? Maybe, are there peyote kings?
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I have written down here three drug punks at the beginning.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Are those the guys who stole the van that he killed?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: So they're doing, they're doing like all the gangs that
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: mama took over. So you see them getting mowed down,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: but you will see like those gangs got like integrated.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So you'll see the judged are, they have judge dread
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: tattoos on their face and you'll see them like mixed
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: in with the mama gang. Cause they all got like assimilated.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: So it's basically this Confederacy of all these gangs that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: mama took over.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Like Dave, I'm going to compare this to a movie
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: that we're not actually comparing it to, but just because
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: it's all in the same bracket together. It's like comparing,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know, the Lions to the Bears because they're
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: NFC North. You have two movies here where the goons
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: are basically just sweaty, slum-dwelling drug addicts. And that's it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: But the sweaty, slum-dwelling drug addicts in Dread are nowhere
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: near as interesting as the sweaty... slum-dwelling drug addicts in
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: The Raid.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: 100%. When we get to it, we'll talk more, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: The Raid... Bad guys are competency porn. Holy shit.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. And part of that is because the Dredd guys
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: are high. They're high on a drug. Basically, Dredd is
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: just mowing down fucking heroin addicts at Kensington and Allegheny.
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And that doesn't make Dredd sound good. I will say,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: if there's one thing that I was thinking this movie
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: could have been better at is... It could have been
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a little more fascist. I don't think it's not quite
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: fascist enough for a Dread movie.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: When you talk about grounded, in a weird way, Dread
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: to me is the most grounded because it most reflects
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: our current police state. Yes.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I think the really interesting thing about the goons in
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Dread is it's like 60-40 people that are like actual
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: criminals and then 40% just guys that are just here
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: for a quick paycheck. that, like, have no fucking idea
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: what's going on. That 40% is, like, really sad that
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: they're getting murked.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: And you get a little bit of that with the
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: guy that Olivia Throldy's character kills, and she finds out later, oh, yeah,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: he had a kid, he had a wife, and all
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: that stuff, and, like, she never finds out that Olivia
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Throldy killed her husband, you know?
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: But he clearly was not, like, a trained assassin. He
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: was just like, I gotta make ends meet. I live
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: in this shitty building, and, like, the only job here
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: is killing cops, so.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And he's completely unarmed and already defeated when
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: she executes him. So the other judges.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Like, good for you for putting their names down. The
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: whole point of the judges is that they're anonymous, right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Except for like.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Except they put their names on their fucking.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Put their names on their badge.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Which is more than ICE cops do. I thought
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: about that. I'm like, damn, yo, even these super fascist...
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: No due process, motherfuckers. We'll at least let you know
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: their name before they kill you.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: At one point, Judge Shred says, we cannot execute a
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: perp on 99% certainty.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: I know, I'm like, holy shit, you guys have higher
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: standards than the fucking federal government.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: What the hell?
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: This walking cautionary tale is like, we can't execute with
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: 100% impunity.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure this is explained in like heavy metal.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Why not? Like what authority is over the judges? Like
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: what will happen? Who's overseeing? Who's watching these watchmen, dude?
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. So the corrupt judges, I think, are
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: going to be head and shoulders the best we have
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: here because they have like distinct personalities. The main one
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: is Judge Kaplan. Who gets the most time to like
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: choose scenery. He does the monologue that I ended up with. Okay.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Can we please just talk about that monologue for a second?
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: It's like, this city's like a meat grinder. People go
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: in and meat come out. And I'm like, wait a minute.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Did you just describe a meat grinder? Like, this is
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: not a metaphor. You're just defining a meat grinder for
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: those of us who don't know what a meat grinder is.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: He kind of bails on the metaphor halfway through.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, are you telling me that Alex Garland wrote a
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: script where the metaphor gets a little lost and it
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense halfway through, even when someone looks at
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the screen and explains it? Are you telling me that
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Alex Garland did that?
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: I was.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I had to change the end because I
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: was like, I have to make this a little bit better.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: It's not like, you'll go in, tragedy comes out. Nothing
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: At that point, you can just say this town is
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: like a meat grinder, full stop. I get it. You're
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: not adding anything by telling me what a meat grinder is.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: It does work in that the kind of corrupt cop
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: that would be a judge in this it's a real
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: dumb guy. It's a real dumb guy that thinks he's
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: pretty smart.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: That's part of the training. It's like, are you good
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: at metaphors? Yeah, I'm okay. No, no, I'm sorry. You're out.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: If you have any imagination, you're not a good judge.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. I think the big reveal here is sort
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: of like, you see the judges and you think they're
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: all judge dread level. And then it is quickly revealed,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: especially with these guys. No, the judges all fucking suck.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: They're a bunch of dipshits in helmets. that are so
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: easily tricked out maneuvered and fucked up that like you're
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: just seeing the one guy that is even a little
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: bit good at his job so they are sort of
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: this like reveal of like they're all corrupt fucking idiots
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: that don't know and they're taking deals that don't make
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: any goddamn sense.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: I'm also questioning that like one million dollars for for
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: dread where i'm like i don't know like i don't
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: know what the economy is like at that point but
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: that's like 250 a piece and i'm like Even in
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: this economy, the pre-apocalypse economy, that's just not that much.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't know what a credit, what the
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: value of a credit to US dollars is.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: And there's apparently only one economy to compare it to.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: So we don't know. It's a closed circuit. That's it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: It's Dredd versus four other Dredds.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we're a little cool on the Judge Dredd goons. Let's...
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: talk about big trouble in little china i.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Don't even have to this is unfair.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yes i think all right guys favorite goon in big
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: trouble in little china fuck that's.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Hard okay oh my god no it's it's al leong
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: it's al leong with his like dual hatchets and his
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: fucking oh but maybe it's his buddy with the bandoliers
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: that are like elephant gun.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Rifles Wait, are we counting the storms?
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we're counting the storms.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: I think, okay, just my personal favorite, even though I
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: don't think he's actually the most effective, but my personal
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: favorite is Lightning Guy. He is just so fucking cool.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: I like his look, his fucking spiky hair, but then
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: the electricity. It's like, he doesn't use it. nearly as
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: well as he should. He should be the most dangerous
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: in the bunch, but just as a look, that's fucking fantastic.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: He is able to ride up and down a lightning
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: bolt like it's a fireman pole.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Like fucking Metallica. Literally rides the lightning in and out
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: of places.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Only one of these movies has a goon that became
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Mortal Kombat.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta fight Raiden, Jack Burton.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: The thing I love about The Three Storms is that
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: You have Lightning, who is this god that shoots lightning,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: and he's so badass. Incredible. So cool. You have Thunder.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: He's so fucking strong and tough and invincible, and he can, like,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: make his body bigger and stuff. You have Rain, who...
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Has a sword. Tries his best. At one point, can
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: blow on something really hard.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, so you know what he's got, though? He looks
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: amazing in a suit. That's the other thing I love
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: about this goddamn movie, is, like, the goons... like have
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: cons they have style they have costume changes yo yeah
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: like that we go from like we got these like
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: wicker hats and shit and the next thing you know
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: they got these like uh black suits with black ties
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: and red shirts and it's like yo they styling they
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: got a bad guy has like three different looks throughout
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: the movie because they're.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Going to a wedding they've got a wedding to get
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: to like and each.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Like level of goon has a totally different look you
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: got like the dragon guards you got And then you have, like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: these sub-goons who aren't really goons, but, like, this little, like,
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: eye monster and this fucking, like, homunculate, like, fucking bear, like,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: man-bear-pig thing.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Even before the magical sorcerers get involved, you still have
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: the Bloods and the Crypts, basically. Yes! Yeah. Who are
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: marked by the colors of their turbans.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: And then even within those, you have Al Young and
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: the guy with the gunslinger who are, like, got this
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: own distinctive look, this own, like, everybody gets, like, what
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: I love about 80s villains in particular, 80s goons in particular,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: is they each have a kind of their own look
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: and feel. Like you see this in Die Hard, even
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Action Jackson, like the main bad four guys have their
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: own name, the Invisible Men, right? And they have this
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: legend behind them, like the Storms. It's like a holdover
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: from the Warriors where you get like, everybody has their
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: own look and feel, the own gangs. Like you don't
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: get that. The 90s, everyone becomes faceless goons who all
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: look the same. But in the 80s, like each goon
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: has their own look and feel and you can kind
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: of root for them.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: The Lords of Death, don't really do shit. Like, they're
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: your first introduction to goons. They just kidnap one person
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and then you never really see them again. And they
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: have the most insane look.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: That fucking white sunglasses with the little slits. Like, holy shit.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: That would be the main villains in any other 80s
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: action film.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: They have a look that is so fucking 80s. They
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: are like a bright star of pure 80s energy.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Dirty Harry would spend the entire goddamn movie going after them.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Not just because they're Asian. He would spend the entire
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: goddamn movie going after just those first three guys.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Dirty Harry in this movie never gets to big trouble
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: in little China. They're just like, and then there's a
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: woman that's been kidnapped and I got to take out
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: these Lords of death.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: Uh, Harry, this guy just appeared and disappeared and you
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: ran him over.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no. Right.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Punks have done too much.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, dirty Harry just opens fire in the middle
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: of the airport. And, uh, Three civilians die, but so
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: does the Lords of Death. And then the movie's over, right?
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much. This is my one kind of cultural critique.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: And I should be prefacing all this with the fact
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: that no one on this call is of Asian descent.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: So take a huge grain of salt with everything we're
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: saying here. But to our wizened eyes, what we see is,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: or what I see is, the one thing that I
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: feel like is kind of lacking here is Asian women.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: So the white.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: women get to talk a lot.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the Asian woman in.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: This is, let's be honest, like a prize. Like she's
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: basically the MacGuffin.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I forgot she was in it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I will say in terms of female representation, while
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: it's not great on the protagonist side, the Wing Kong
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: do have their own female division that do get a
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: time to shine.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, and I was thinking, oh, because it's a women's prison,
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: that's why all this, this is why these particular group
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: of hench people are women. Okay, and that all kind
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: of made sense, but you're right.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I did not make that association. I thought they just
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: had girl team. I just thought they just had like,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: like their own division that was just, and now Europe,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: go fuck them up.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: My question, are they getting paid as much as the
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: rest of the Wing Kong?
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: No they won't bet you no what if lopan was
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: actually pretty progressive in his organizational structure what if for
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: like all of his faults.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: What about like gracie laws looking through it's like i
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: gotta say this guy's got profit sharing uh there's a
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: full there's full maternity and paternity leave i don't know
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: i should we shut this down.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Is actually their hr team and he's.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Great Lopin started a women in leadership team.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: Really, really, really.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Pushing for the mentorship.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: He's got all these ERGs.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: He's an immortal ghost man. He's not a monster.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: He really, at the end, he really only wants to
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: kill one woman. He wants to keep the other one
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: alive as his trophy bride.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, guys.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: What is a heavy, but just a middle manager in disguise?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Well, actually he.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: Has, that's the interesting thing I think about Lopan as
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: a villain is like all, everything he's doing is to
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: serve someone higher than him. There's the God of the East.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: He has to appease. And then there's the emperor he
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: has to appease. So every, his whole evil plan is basically,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: I owe these deities money.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Like I owe them. Once I do that, I can
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: do what I want, you know, but like that's so
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: he is kind of middle management.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: He's like VP director level. Like he's still he's still
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: got a boss. It is a Darth Vader Palpatine situation.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. He does. He basically get a monologue where
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: he's like, listen, man, I'm in a real pain in
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: the ass situation here. I get you don't want me
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: to marry and kill these ladies, but I got some
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: bullshit going on. All right.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Lopin isn't really into it.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: That's my favorite scene in the movie, though, is when
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: he confronts. And again, they're in wicker wheelchairs just because.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: But the whole, like, you're not put on this earth
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: to get it, Mr. Burton. And you're really pissing me
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: off to no end. Those are two phrases that just
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: live rent free in my head.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: James Wan, so good in this.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I have a thing I want to talk about with
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the three storms, which is their weaponry. Yeah.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: They're completely superfluous.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: So they have a kukuri, which they use to do
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: flips and then throw them. Yes. The most needlessly convoluted attack.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: But they also have their own- It's called flourish, Dan.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: They- They take some pride in their knife throws. They
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: have their own unique weapons, which Thunder has blade knuckles.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I tried to look up what these actually are. They
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: don't exist, but they're like combination knuckle and swords. We
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: have Lightning who has spinning palm blades, basically a like
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: prank buzzer, but it's a blender.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: He has a blender in the palm of his hand.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Like he sticks his hands out and they just go.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Like pinwheels.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: He's holding two pinwheels in his hand.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: And Rain, as if to say, hey, I'm not going
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: to be shown up in terms of uselessness, whips out
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: two bladed back scratchers. Yes.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Does he ever actually use them?
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: None of them use any of them. They have a
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: big dramatic reveal of their fucking weapons. I think Thunder
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: kind of uses his blade knuckles to do a dance.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Because they do. They're in the alley fight. And it's like,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: holy shit, the three storms are here. And you see
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: them bust out the weapons. And then they kind of
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: just like wade in. And then you cut to the
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: guys in the truck. I'm like, fuck, what's going on?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Because they all have magic powers that are much more impressive. Wee,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: I got spinny palm hands. Also, I shoot lightning from
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: my fingertips. Is it like a Peter Parker mechanical web
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: shooter situation? Does he use the little spinny palm things
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: to direct the lightning maybe? Is that it? I don't know. No, no,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: absolutely not.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Has there ever been a bigger gulf between one method
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: of attack and another? Because I don't think, I think
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: if you were actually in a literal fight, I can't
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: think of anything more useless than having two knives on
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: your palms. Like just holding them out, trying really hard
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: to keep your fingers back.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: If you're Jack Burton, if you're Jack Burton, you're standing
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: in front of your truck. Here are these three dudes
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that just appeared. You don't know their magic yet. You
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: see the blade knuckles. You go, oh, no. You see
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: the guy with two swords. You're like, oh, no.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: And then you see.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: This guy with his.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: OK.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I'll deal with you later.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Counterpoint.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Have either of you seen the black hole? No. Oh
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: my god, there is a robot in the black hole
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: that basically has the spinning hands, except the blades are
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: pointed out a little bit, and he fucks people.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Of course, if you point them out, sure, if you
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: point them towards your opponent, as opposed to perpendicular, parallel
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Also, you have metal fingers that, like, if Rain makes
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: a fist while he has those things accidentally, he's now
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: shooting lightning out of five stubs.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: I don't see any way that rain doesn't at least
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: take out a thumb. Or lightning, lightning. Yeah. Who cares?
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Rain, you promptly see switch to two swords, which is
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: way better. Rat creature I have as debatable as a goon,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: just because his sentience is kind of up for debate.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a rule of no monsters, but unless
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: they are like sentient beings.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, he seems more like a pet, almost. Like,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: the only sort of, like, measurable thing he does is
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: he grabs Gracie Locke.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Like, that's a thing.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: But other than that, he just sort of, like, growls
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: at you.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Who's the little, like, Muppet creature that hangs out with
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Jabba the Hutt?
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, Salacious Crumb.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: He's this movie's Salacious Crumb.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's time for scores, boys. All right, what
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: are our votes? for round one dread or.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: China fricking big trouble.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: By, by a country mile.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: I think this is a blowout.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: It makes it easier to think of the three categories.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it as like what elements of
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: a movie staff are each of them awarding. So when
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I think about goon quality, I'm thinking about the like
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: costume design team talking about the, the production I'm talking about,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: you know, not even the actress himself, but everything, the
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: V the visual design. And, God damn, the team on
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Big Trouble is just kicking the shit out of the
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: team from Trey.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: Again, no joke, I would happily have seen it nominated
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: for Best Costume Design and Best Production Design.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: It's fucking incredible. Wild that this movie got overshadowed by
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: the dog shit that is The Golden Child.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I thought Golden Child tanked.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: It did, but it still got overshadowed by it. The
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: comparison were coming out of the gate.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Because they came out the same summer.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they rushed Big Trouble into production to get
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: ahead of Golden Child. Although I think in the long run,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Big Trouble is far better remembered and.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Far better called.
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: For sure.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know a single person who has seen the
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Golden Child.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: I have and I own the soundtrack.
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I know David Dillon Thomas.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: One time on Comedy Central.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Okay. Round two.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that is round one goes decisively to Big
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Trouble in Little China. Now on to round two, kill
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: quality or goriography as we like to call it. How
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: well are the goons dying? Let's start with our favorite
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: kill for Judge Dredd.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: This one's a little harder.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: This one's tough.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: So in terms of just gore-osity, the fact that Dredd
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: is a hard R, it's gonna kind of win. This
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: movie loves exploding heads.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: Like our very first proper kill is basically an incendiary
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: shot into a bad guy's mouth until his head glows
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: and explodes, like, fizzles out. And then we also get
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: an incendiary shot at one of the judges that makes
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: his head blow up. And then Olivia Thirlby's character, like,
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: shoots a machine gun under someone's chin and blows their head. Like,
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: People love to blow people's heads up in this movie.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: And because of slow-mo, you're really getting to drink in.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: The slow-mo, like, that's where we use the slow-mo effects
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: so well. And we do things that I've never seen
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: in any other movie. And this is where I think, like,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: it is cool to use your CGI, your visual effects.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily need to see the ripple of fat
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: in a guy's stomach that, like, goes out when a
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: bullet pierces his torso. But you see that like three
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: or four times in one scene. And I've never seen
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: that in a movie before. I will probably never see
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: that in a movie again. But it's certainly like one
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: of the most unique uses of an effect I've ever seen.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: So as far as the visual effect goes. Dred's bringing
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: something to the table that is unreal.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: When we're talking about how the judges die. There is
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: the judge that... tries to do, hey, I'm your friend
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: to Anderson and then gets just wasted due to mind control.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: We have the guy that gets pistol whipped in the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: throat and then thrown into some water. We have Alvarez
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: who gets a high X head explosion. And then we
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: have Kaplan who monologues in classic Incredibles fashion and then
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: gets mowed down from behind.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: That's my favorite dread moment in the entire movie. The weight.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: The movie gets a little self-aware at that point where
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: the guy is monologuing and is just making fun of
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Dredd for the one word that he said. He's like,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: that's it? That's all you gotta say to me is wait?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: What am I gonna wait for?
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: And then he gets murked.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Wait for her to shoot you.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Wait for her to shoot you. It's great. Probably the
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: high point of the movie for me, honestly. These are
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: so good.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: So conceptually, and again, we can talk if these are
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: really goons or not. Conceptually, my favorite kill is the
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: three goons who get skinned and thrown off the top
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: of the building while on slow-mo that counts we don't
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: yeah yeah and i would say because we don't we
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: we do i guess we do see it um and
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: which by the way is again another reference to the
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: raid which also begins with three goons being killed by
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: the head boss like this movie knows it's the fucking
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: raid like even the design of the building it fucking
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: knows it's the raid there's no questions.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: About it Do you think that's true, though? Because they
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: were made around the same time on other parts of
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: the world, right?
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: It would be a hell of.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: A coincidence, dude.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: You think this shouldn't just be like a Deep Impact
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Armageddon situation?
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: Dude, Deep Impact and Armageddon do not share nearly as
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: much DNA as these two fucking movies do.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I think you can say pretty safely it at least
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: considers itself a bit of a homage to.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's respectfully doing all of that.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: An homage to the movie that came out eight months before.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: And I would even go so far as to say...
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Did it only come.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Out eight months before?
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they came out. Yeah. Oh, shit. Marty might have
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: us on that. I don't think the timing works out. Like,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Raid is 2011.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Like, the buildings are fucking identical.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: This might be.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: This might be.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: They were being made at the same time.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Shit.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Because Dread is 2000.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: People know what other movies are being made. Like I
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: can tell you that just from experience.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Unless maybe I'm wrong and maybe the raid, maybe the
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: raid was out first and then it came to America
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: in 2011. I can look that up.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: Well, it came to America later for sure.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: But in any case, the other reference I wonder is about,
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: they talk about they're in sector 13. And I wonder
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: if that's a reference to family of 13, which is again,
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: a movie about an action sequence all set in one
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: mega slum.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: But in any case, So that might be my win then,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: because just conceptual, even though we don't see it as
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: clearly experienced as clearly as we do, like, cause my
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: other choice would have been the, uh, the hot shot
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: firing into the mouth and the head just starts glowing. Uh,
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: I would say that is cause just conceptually a, I've
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: just literally never seen anything like that. Like the skinning
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: shirt throwing off of throwing off a roof shirt, both
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: while on slow mo. And that's the conceptual part. Like
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: the idea that you were going to experience this horrible thing, uh,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: At 1% normal time. That's the part that's super fucked up.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: That you don't get in any of these other movies.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: The incineration. When he does the flare bullet. Might be
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: it for me. Partially because you see him like take
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: the shot. He incinerates instantly. Like flashback. 15 guys it
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: has oh yeah yeah that incendiary that's a pretty fucking
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: cool weapon yeah i.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Mean his multi-phase gun in general is pretty fucking.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Cool you know yes we talked and when we covered
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: the fifth element we talked about how disappointed we were
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: that that the gun with all the devices doesn't get
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: used hard agree hard agree when i saw that movie
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the first time like oh this is gonna be fucking
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: awesome and then they like and i'm like what the
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: fuck man And so dread scratches that itch for us.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: And it does it without telling you all the functions
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: in advance.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: So you get to be surprised. Right.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: You get to learn as they go along what all
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: of the capable of.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And you feel very much like this is the coolest
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: weapon in the entire fucking world. But it also is like,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: we're going to keep reminding you these bullets are fucking finite.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: He is running out of ammo. Yes, that's the other thing.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: You got to nerf him. You've got to nerf your superpowers,
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: otherwise it gets boring.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Which actually, the gun devices give us a kill that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: you don't have listed here, Dan. And that is when
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Wood Harris' character, where Kay is killed by one of
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: those special devices, one of those special options that we
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: learn about in the gun. He's killed when he tries
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: to kill Olivia Thirlby Anderson with her own gun. And
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: because it's a gun ID lock, it literally backfires and
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: blows his entire arm off. That's a pretty good kill.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: And then she just gives a shit.
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: That is. Well, okay. And technically, we don't actually know
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: that he's dead because he's lost a hand and he's
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: been knocked out with a kick. He could actually survive
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: that pretty easily.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: That having been said, that is one of my favorite,
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: that is one of my favorite quote unquote kills in
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: the movie is the.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I think we'll allow it.
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: It's called an ID fail. The ID fail is a very,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: very good kill.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I think we can safely say that he bled out
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: almost immediately. Oh, yeah.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: Literally, when I had the closed captions on, literally when
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: the paramedics arrive at the end, they're like, just do
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: the civilians first. The perps can, like, wait.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: They literally say that, and I'm like, okay, my boy's
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: got a problem.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I think in terms of VFX... for like violence. The
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: dread is like maybe unrivaled on the, on the whole
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: last break. You see the seams of like what they
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: can afford to do with the special effects, but it
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: really is like, we are going to show you what
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: happens to a human body. When a bullet hits it,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: you are going to see the bullet go in. You
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: were going to see what it does to like every
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: part of it. And then you were going to see
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: what happens. When it goes out, it is kind of upsetting.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: It's cool, but kind of upsetting. But that is what it,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: because you are also getting the mega ultra slow motion
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: effect of it. And then you see it snap back
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to normal speed with the results of it.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: This matchup, in terms of kill quality, this matchup and
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: the other matchup, they both kind of come down to
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: like kitschiness, like kitschy, heavily stylized versus super gross hyper realism.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: And whichever one you, the judge, I guess the three
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: of us, particularly like more. And both of these matchups
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: have this. And it's hard. It's tough.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: All right. On to... the kills of Big Trouble in
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Little China. Let's start off with favorites again. What are
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: our favorites for how these guys get wasted?
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Can I start?
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: It's Thunder, man. It's Thunder King.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, my God.
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Thunder, who doesn't, he just self-destructs. He gets so mad.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: He's so, I think it's a grief kill, which I
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: don't think we've ever had in any of these and
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: never get again. He just, he sees his master dead
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: And he just starts crying and fuming and just gets
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: bigger and bigger. And the practical effects on super inflated
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: thunder are amazing. Like his final form where he's literally
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: just all head. it's incredible. And then he just, and
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: it's like, because this is a PG, I guess movie,
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: it's basically stuffing.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: That comes out.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: Which is so absurd.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: But it kind of fits the movie. This one was
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: one that's PG because it was previous. It came up
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: before PG 13 existed.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, it kind of doesn't matter because before PG
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: 13 existed, you can rip a guy's heart out and
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: show it. I think they just didn't have like, there
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: was no PG 13. If that was the equivalent way
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: to like, show someone exploding.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah i mean that's true that's true i mean the
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: movie wouldn't benefit from there being blood and guts everywhere it's.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: Not that kind of movie i mean there is a
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: there is a trauma harder version of big trouble little
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: china but that's not what john carpenter made or wanted
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: to make out thing uh what they did and what
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: they have instead is a much more campy fun like
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: even the kung fu in it like when the freaking
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: shootout at the beginning there's no blood it.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Because he's making a fairy tale. He's making a fairy tale.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: It is, totally.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: And it's funny, too, because he's definitely paying homage to
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Shaw Brothers and all those guys. But even those guys
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: show blood. This is just like, we really have to
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: sanitize this for American audiences.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Damn it, I botched my bit here. I have something
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I am going to do. I'm going to do ready
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: for this guys. I'm going to do something like cutesy.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pull some cutesy bullshit and Dan, feel
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: free to call foul on it. But in the big
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: gang fight scene to start off, right? There is a
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: quick shot where one of the, uh, one of the
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: gangs members kicks the camera. John Carpenter just did this
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: cause it's fun. He kicks the, Oh yeah. Transported to
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: the point of view of one of these bad, these battlers.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: And he kicks the camera and the camera falls to
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: the floor and falls down. So I'm scratching my thunderbolt.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: My actual favorite kill in this is us. We, the audience,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: die from that kick. That's my favorite kill.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna allow the shit out of that that's on
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: the thing i thought about the thunder kill when i
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: first saw it was it was a suicide bomb attempt
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: i thought he was trying to take him out and
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: then this watch i was like no he just gets
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: so mad and he blow up They just made it,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: they killed him by making him so fucking angry. Because also,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: he's chasing Wang around before that and just getting so
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: frustrated that he's punching furniture.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: In like the most Bugs Bunny way possible. It's just
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: like back and forth.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: He's going from like composed martial arts to just desperate
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: childlike flailing. As Wang just backflips away from him repeatedly.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Lightning's is a little bit of a... He gets a
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Buddha dropped on his head.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: It's a letdown, to be honest.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: You want it more like.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Because the scene where Egg uses a little fan to
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: redirect his lightning back at him, that's pretty fucking cool.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: But just the, like, I'm going to be coming up
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: a rope and then, like, oh, here's a big statue
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: on your head. It's, like, not even that cool.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: It's like.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: You see, because we get a lot of thunder and rain,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: and they save lightning as much as possible.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: And I think that's just the effects budget. Like, you
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: could do a lot with, like, as we know from
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: three years prior in Return of the Jedi, you can
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: do a lot with lightning. But we don't have a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Return of the Jedi budget, now do we? No. We
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: do not have ILM making lightning, do we?
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Wait, are you saying that John Carpenter got fucked over
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: by the studio on his budget and had to make
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: last minute changes? No! That doesn't sound like one of
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: his projects. Rain dies like a bitch. He... He repeatedly
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: is just flying at the air at a guy. And
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: then Wang just goes like, oh, I can just throw
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: my sword at him. And then he just crashes into
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: a skull and bites. Well, again, flourish. Right.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: Because because they've been fighting in midair together, which, again,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: is just John having fun with like martial arts. But
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: then he does. He like is like sort of waiting
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: for him. And then he does this turnaround where he
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: like goes upside down and then throws it.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: And totally unnecessarily.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: But it's fun.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: It's so good I think there is also the absolutely
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: classic knife shoe kill.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: Which is made perfect I think by the fact that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: he can't get the knife back out again that's what
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: makes it funny There are so many gags in this movie.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: He can't get the knife back out from... I know
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: that he can't get the knife back out, but I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: also was like, he's stuck there, right? He's stuck under this.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Basically, his foot is stuck to his kill.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Making him useless. And also, the big statue guy that
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: he just killed is so heavy that he's pinned down.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: God, that's so funny. And so many of the gags
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: in this movie rely on Jack... wanting to help, but
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: being unable to help because of his own incompetence. The
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: other gag like that is early on when they're trying
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: to get out the first time, he doesn't have any
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: bullets in his gun and he pulls out his knife
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: and his knife goes flying. So he has to go
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: look for it while his friend kicks everyone's ass. So
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: by the time he jumps back in with his knife
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: and his gun, everyone's already knocked out.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are great gags.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Jack is the comic relief in this.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Yes!
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: That's the beauty of the film. You think he's the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: main character, but he's actually the comic relief.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: He's Wing's sidekick. Wing is the hyper-competent hero.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: This whole movie could happen without Jack, and nothing would change.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: It might go faster actually.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Even the only other real kill of like low level
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: goons that Burton gets is that they are doing a
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Kung Fu battle with Wang and he just shoots them.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: He's just like, all right, like nobody's paying attention to me. Bang, bang, bang.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Wang's friend then says like, was that the first time
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: you ever shot anyone? And because Burton isn't a tough guy,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: he's a truck driver.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: He's a podcaster.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: He's a truck driver who talks a lot.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: He's our ancestor. Show some respect to Jack Burton. You
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: show some respect to old Jack Burton.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: He, if anything, should be our god.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: And the fact that he's doing the whole movie as
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: John Wayne just makes it funnier. It's such an underrated
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: action parody way before that became popular. Because the other
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: thing that's happening is after the big giant battle with
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: all of the gangs fighting each other, the opening set piece...
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: what is he doing? He's on the phone with his
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: insurance company. Yeah. Like that is beautiful.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: This is, this might also be one of the only
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: entries where every time a low level goon gets killed,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: the goon should kind of be like, really?
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Like that guy, the main character is surprised every single
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: time he pulls off a kill.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: Or he jumps on thunders back and it's like.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Come on, Jack, how, how, just so completely outclassed by
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: the heavies no.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Plans anytime i think my favorite burton kill is when
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: he's in the in the wicker wheelchair rolling backwards up
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: the stairs and he manages to like get free and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: accidentally like while escaping shoots his machine gun at two
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: guys yes is he like tries to escape, and barely
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't fall down a hole.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: All right, are we ready to do our votes? What
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: are we thinking of the Dread kills versus the China kills?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: So if we're talking kills plural, I kind of have
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: to give it to Dread because the number of creative
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: kills is higher. If we're talking about the best kill,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: I kind of have to give it to Big Trouble
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: because there's nothing like the Thunder kill in anything.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: We're mostly running on vibes here. So like the category
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: is called kill quality or choreography. And you can take
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: that to mean however you want it to mean. So Dave,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: what are you thinking?
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: If you think that one high quality kill outclasses several
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: low level ones, that is what's in your heart. And
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: that is how you can vote.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Then my heart is telling me big trouble because Thunderman.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: Force him out for Thunderman.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right. Dan, I'm going to set you up
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: to be the tiebreaker because I have thought about this
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: a lot. You're correct, Dave. There is nothing like that Thunderkill,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: but I have seen practical effects blow up before and stuff.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I've never seen and will never ever see anything like
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: the ripple effects of the slow-mo kills in dread i
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: mean it's gross it's shocking but it is super effective
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: and it's novel and i gotta say uh yeah for
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: for me and again we're crediting the props department the
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: visual effects teams and everything and this is such a
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: good use of like slow-mo camera technology, and this is
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: 12 years post The Matrix when we're really sick of
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: seeing that kind of animation, and they use it in
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: a really original way. So for the whole visual effects
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: team and everything for that, I'm giving this one to Dredd.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I think... I think I'm going to say
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: that if one of the other storms had a death
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: even close to the level of thunder, I think if,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: if the, if, if lightning had died any other way
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: than big statue gets dropped on his head, any other
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: way than just getting a complete Looney Tunes ass kill
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: like sub Looney Tunes fucking piano I mean okay okay
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: hang on it would.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Have been cooler if it was a piano actually hang
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: on Dan this is clearly a Looney Tunes influenced movie
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: so you're getting mad at it for doing what it
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: is on the team.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: No more a lazy Looney Tunes like yeah a pretty
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: it's just a weak ass.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: Kill if they had had him like run into a
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: hole that was like a wall with a pole painted
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: on it that I would respect more If it had
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: been an anvil, if Thunder had ran into the pit,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: but still stood in midair until he looked down.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Then this is an execution. But I think the VFX
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: in Dread are so next level, especially with the budget
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: they're clearly working with. I think I gotta go with Dread.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not mad at that. Like I said, overall kills,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: I give it to Dread. That one kill, but no,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: I'm not mad at that outcome.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: So we're saying, I think we are saying two out
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: of three, Dread takes round two. So now, now we
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: are one to one. We're coming down to our tiebreaker.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: Round three, death acting. How well are our performers acting?
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: selling the act of getting killed this is this is
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: the the extras time to shine i want to start
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: with china because i think we got to get something
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: out of the way the thunder kill are we counting
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: the because it does switch to vfx in terms of
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: what this performance is what do we think about counting
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: the entirety of that as the performance or are we
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: only going like When he's like early to mid transformation.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, to Marty's point about what departments are you rewarding?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: Are you just rewarding the actor or are you wearing
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: the actor, the VFX, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: Because the performance, depending on how you want to describe
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: the performance is also the hair and makeup is also
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: like that. That is all culminates.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: You're really getting into art theory here, Dan. Yeah. The
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: performance is all of the, it's even the lighting and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: the technicians and the grips and all that.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Here's the case I'll make for it, is that voice
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: acting is still acting. And even if you wanted to
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: remove all of that and say it's just Carter Wong,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: even if you just want to say Carter Wong, Carter
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Wong is still voice acting. His audio is still there
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: as they switch to the puppet version of him. So
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: I think you can make the case the entire thing
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: still being Carter Wong's show.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: I think... I think it's only the last shot of
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: him where he is fully puppet. I think up until
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: that point, it is still him and they're doing stuff
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: to his face.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, prosthetics.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: So I think he gets credit up until that last shot.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: Little known fact, Carter Wong can't explode on cue. It
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: is like on his resume.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: Special skills. Special skills can't explode. He can't cry on cue.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: He had to work for that.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: But he can explode on cue and re reanimate within
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: two to six hours.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Okay. Well, then that just seems like cheating. It's not
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: really acting now, is it?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I believe it's method acting.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: That's what you hire him to do. That's what you
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: brought him on set for.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: He's, he's actually, he's Chinese on his father's side, but
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: I'm on his mother's side.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: Um i i don't want to invest too much though
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: so so if i'm being honest i don't really think
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: the death acting in either of these movies is especially
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: good just because yeah you don't get to see much
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: of it the kills in this movie are quick like
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: yeah and with the exception of the the big exploding
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: guy there and very and if you're talking about dread
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: very fx yeah it's sort of like i don't know
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: what kind of death acting you can do when your
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: head explodes like yeah it's Look of shock, perhaps?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, Dredd has some dudes on fire who are
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: flailing and throwing themselves off of balconies and shit.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: I'd say, but if we go down to the low
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: level dudes, the Wing Kong, especially when they're in that
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: street fight, they are, those guys are doing some work.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: I think when you're talking about death acting, that alleyway
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: fight is where you're talking about it. Because you have
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: them getting like, they're getting mowed down by like, Tommy
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: guns and, and shit like that. And these guys are
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: like doing, like doing stunts to really sell, like without
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: any sort of like blood or gore that they are like.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: That's an interesting point.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: You almost have to sell it more when you don't
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: have like bullet spray or whatever to like work with
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: their squibs. It's just sort of like, tell me you
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: just got shot without telling me you just got shot. Yeah.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Cause we haven't got no blood for you, buddy. We
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: can't afford squibs. You're just going to have to like
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: make me believe it.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Is there anybody that gets a chance to really sell
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: the indignation of being murdered by Jack Burton? Oh, jeez.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: So few do. So few get killed by Jack Burton. Actually, yes,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: but he's not a henchman. It's David LeBan. The look
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: of shock on his face when he's like, I can't.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: Like for two seconds before his brain dies, it's like,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: I just got, I'm an immortal God who just got killed,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: just got pawned by a dumb American.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if we're talking death acting, it's mostly
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: low-level dudes that are getting.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: To do that. You get when Rain gets it. He
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: gets to do his little.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Yes!
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: Which is the exact same noise the little eye creature
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: gets when it gets stabbed. It goes....
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: This is a hard one.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: That's where I want to give the best death acting to,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: his little eye creature.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: He goes like.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: I think that eye creature is just sub-intelligence to be
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: able to qualify as a goon.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: He's not even really a goon. He's a surveillance system.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: It's like me getting mad at your cameras. It's like,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm going to call that a goon.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's, so Dredd, I think if we are
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: talking about, there is, I'd say the standout performance in
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Dredd is the husband of that woman in the apartment. Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, is that death acting or beg acting?
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's death acting. He's looking a woman in the
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: eye and really begging to not be killed. I think
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: that dude counts because he's about to get fully executed.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Judge Chan. Judge Chan who gets shot in the foot
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: by Judge Dredd and then baton to the throat.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: They open the door up on him.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: I wrote it down. They open the door up and
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: the other two judges see him bleeding from the mouth
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: and then dropping to his knees.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: That was pretty good.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: So Judge Chan gets that.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: The other one I'll give you is ID fail.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: When he gets his hand blown off. That's a pretty
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: good hand loss acting.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, Wood Harris is selling the fuck.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: Out of that.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Because he looks so surprised, but also so like, you
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: know what he really looks like is the Jason Bateman
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: dead dove don't eat thing. Where he's just like, I
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: don't know what I was expecting. I don't know what
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: I thought was going to happen here.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit of, oh, of course the
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: gun is going to fucking explode. God damn it.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: He just looks disappointed with himself as he dies.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: He's just not having a great day. I think if
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: we're going quantity, I would say Big Trouble by a
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: thin margin, just because there's not that much death acting
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: in Dread because so many of the kills are super quick.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Um, I think, okay, but let's say the dudes that
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: are on fire when they get hit with the incendiary
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: round are doing like, like waving around.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: But not, but not, but not in a way that's like,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: oh my God, that's the best fire acting I've ever seen.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I think that just counts
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: as death acting. Yeah.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: Especially when you're on fire. It's just sort of like, wait.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: What are you supposed to do yeah exactly.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah like if you if you show me some like
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: something new i'm like wow i never thought about that
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: aspect of dying by fire you sold me like okay
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: now we're we're getting innovative it was just like you're
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: flailing around it's like yeah.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Of course you are sure yeah i i think i
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: think judge chan is probably our standout death performance in dread.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: But between that and the hand blown off i'd say
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: yeah yeah.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah So what are the good kill acting we have
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: in big China then?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: It's really a lot of the crowd scenes where you're
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: getting people like, you know, killed and mowed down and
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. And doing the, there is a distinctive, it's,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: there's a distinctive like Shaw brothers way of dying in a,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: in a Kung, at the end of a Kung Fu fight.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: And you basically lie on the ground and then your
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: chest goes up. Suddenly you're like, and I am going to,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: I swear to God, I'm going to put that, When
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: I make a kung fu movie, I'm totally putting that
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: shit in. And they don't quite do that in this one,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: but they come close. Like, when they get shot. Yeah.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: It's like.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: Like, that... And that, to me, is, like, pristine fucking
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: death acting, man. Like, that is, like... You didn't just die.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: You died, motherfucker.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Like... Yeah.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: All right. So, I feel like we're kind of... So,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: it's really the vaudeville death acting.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: The real classic. Yeah, and again, to me, it is, like,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: a millimeter. Like, I could be sold either way, but
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: just because the... It's sort of like the trade-off between
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: the effects, innovativeness of the deaths in Dread. The trade-off
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: there is that you don't get to do a lot
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: of death acting because your head's being blown up. You're
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: being set on fire. We really just see your belly
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: when a bullet goes through it.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: Versus the old school, I can't even afford squibs, man,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: so you're just going to have to writhe.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: I think I'm ready for mine. You guys ready? Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: All right. I think I'm going to say Dredd on
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: Wood Harris' getting his arm blown off performance. I think
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: him and Carl Fanning's Judge Chan getting pistol whipped in
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: the throat are both really strong, and I'm going to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: put it to Dredd.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: By the thinnest of margins, I'm giving it to Trouble,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: because I am counting- Our voice ability to explode on cue.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, shit.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: Oh, shit.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Okay. It's you. I get the deciding vote of the...
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: You do.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: So....
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: Foot... Blood spray.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: I mean... It.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Uh....
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know what? I got to hold myself to
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: the same standard as before. Again, it comes down to
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: appreciating the semi-realistic grossness versus the kitsch. And I went
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: with the realistic grossness before, so I got to keep
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: myself to the same standard. And I got to give
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: it to Dredd.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: All right. That is in an absolute fucking nail biter.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I feel good about that. I
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: don't know if I feel good about what I just did.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I will.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: I will say I just knocked out John Carpenter.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: I don't feel good about what I've just done.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: I will say just historically, right? As movies, I think
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: big trouble in little China is like historic versus red,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: which is solid. but it's not going to be remembered
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: in 20 years. It's not going to have the same
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: longevity that Big Trouble has, I don't predict. That having
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: been said, with the criteria we have been handed, I
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: think those are perfectly fair. The only thing that was
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: a country mile for me was the first category. You
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: cannot compare the Faceless Goons of Dread to the fully,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 3: beautifully characterized variety pack we get with Big Trouble. The
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: other two categories, though, it's a razor thin margin, in
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: my opinion. So, like I said, I'm not mad at
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: this outcome. And I don't think this besmirches the great
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: memory of Big Trouble. Because Big Trouble is Big Trouble, man.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: It doesn't need any help from us. Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: We're learning that being a good, we're learning that being
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: a good movie or even a good action movie does
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: not necessarily make you a good goon movie, right?
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. In some cases, it's an active detriment
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: because a lot of them are like, we're going to
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: focus on something else while the goon is dying. We're
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: going to focus on the protagonist. We're going to like.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: The, the, the, the other thing that I'm, I started
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: to notice as I thought about these categories, I thought
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: about this, this paradigm to begin with is this is
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: a bracket that treats the action movie as slasher movie, right?
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: Because when we talk about best kills, we're usually talking
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: about slasher movies or horror movies. Uh, and there's definitely
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: a Venn diagram there again, like, through any other lens,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: Die Hard is a slasher movie. And sort of lends
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: itself to that. So to the degree... And we're going
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: to see this in a big way with Violent Knight.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: The degree to which you are embracing the slasher aspect
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: of an action movie, especially a siege action movie, you
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: are going to get bigger and better kills.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: That might be why Your Next and Sinners, being horror
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: movies by nature, worked out fairly well.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it is... It is the Venture Bros thing
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: of we are there with the Monarchs henchmen and Brock
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Sampson is to them a horror monster.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: We're with those guys.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: I learned the term go sick house on us from
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: the Venture Brothers.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. So it is. Don't feel bad. Like this
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: happened with fucking RoboCop. Just because a movie is better
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: is not going to do it any favors here. All right.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: That means that by a fucking hair, Dredd has knocked
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: out Big Trouble in Little China. All right. So that
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: is Dredd takes our first matchup and moves on to
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: the second round. Now to determine what he will be
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: facing off against, we are moving on to The Raid
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: versus Violent Knight. The Raid, directed by Gareth Evans and
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: released in 2011. IMDB synopsis. When a SWAT raid on
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: a fortress-like apartment complex spins out of control, a lone
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: officer must fight his way floor by floor. And at
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: first they're shooting guns, but then they blow up a
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: fridge and everybody switches to martial arts. And this dude,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Mad Dog, is beating the fuck out of people. And
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: then there are these machete guys and Rama is doing
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: this sick, like, billy club knife combo fight. And then he...
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: gets a machete and jumps out of a window and
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: it fucking rocks dude they fight in a bunch of
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: cocaine and there's this SWAT guy that's crazy at kicking
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: and then man this scene where he gets stabbed in
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: the face and then he fucking wipes the blood off
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: before he sees when he's pulling it out of the
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: wall it's so fucking sick dude.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Again, Dave, remember, actual IMDb synopsis.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: These are so much better.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to like, when I do marketing for
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: my movie, I am not even going to hire anybody.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to show it to a bunch of
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: fuckers and say, post it on IMDb. I'm going to
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: pick the best synopsis. Be like, this is the official
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: synopsis for the movie.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think, Dave, I will write the synopsis for
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: your film for 20 bucks. Okay.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: The only parameters, you have to use the word sick
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: at least twice.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: At least twice? You're going to have to give me
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: a cap on it. Here's the thing.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: Dave, Dan and I are actually going to start up
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: an entire separate film website, just like another fangirl. We're
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: going to make our own magazine just so that you
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: can give us poll quotes on your movie poster.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: That is awesome.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: I got to say the best quote I've gotten so
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: far was from someone who hadn't seen the movie yet.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: who posted this john look fire and i'm like yes
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: that is the best review i have pre-review i've ever
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: gotten alicia key's voice yeah.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: John look fire oh fuck all right so the raid.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: The raid to me is the best action movie out
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: of all four of in terms of just doing the
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: job of being an action movie in terms of technical execution, story, plot, character,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: like all the things that a movie should do and
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: an action movie in particular should do, it does at
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: a level higher than anybody we're dealing with here.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: I was surprised. I saw this movie when I was
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: young and I have just always operated on the assumption
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: of this is on the universal action movie Mount Rushmore
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: for the last 20 years. And I was always confused
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: why the director, Gareth Evans, is not directing Godzilla and shit.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: How he's not doing the latest Mission Impossible. And then
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: I found out from doing this, oh, is this actually
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: kind of a fucking cult movie? Is this... Sort of
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: a film, an action nerd movie and not universally beloved.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: I think, Dan, it's somewhere in between there. I think
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: this is like if you're if you're a film person,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: this is basic bitch shit. But for, you know, normies,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: I think that it might be like, hey, I've got
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: a good recommendation for you.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: And I would say the other thing about that is
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: there's a little bit of John Woo happening here, whereas
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: he starts to get access to bigger budgets and American things.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: It starts to get watered down. So I saw Havoc.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: Which is one of his more recent films. I'm like,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: where's the Gareth Edwards of fucking, of fucking Raid? And
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: Raid 2, which I would argue is in a sort
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: of Godfather, Godfather 2 relationship with, with the Raid, where
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: it's like, on any given day, I think Raid 2
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: is better. Like, it's, it is, like, it's like, there
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: is a great deal of talent there, but once he
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: starts being handed these bigger budgets, and we'll see what
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: happens with this next movie, which looks pretty sick, but
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: with Havoc, at least, I'm like, what, this is just,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: this just feels like a generic action film. Which is
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of what happened, not completely, but over time
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: what happened to Moore and Moore with John Woo when
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: he was working in America.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, so the thing, so Havoc has terrible fucking writing. Oh,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: dear God.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: Actually, that was one of the things I wanted to
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: check is if he wrote Havoc, because he wrote Raid
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: and Raid 2 for the most part.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think... When the action scenes in Havoc
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: start up, they're not as good as the raid, but
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: you do see the sort of the magic that Evans has,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: which is he is able to create sort of like
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: an electricity between the camera and one specific thing happening.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: And it'll be like, he'll dial in on a specific weapon.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: There's a meat cleaver, there's a machete. He's not actually
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: following like... the hero, he's following the weapon and what
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: it is doing. So he is able to create these
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: relationships with specific elements that you can follow along so
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: that you can track all the crazy shit happening there.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: Like with the spear gun at the end. That's a
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: pretty cool sequence, yeah.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: Up against Violent Night, directed by Tommy Riccola, who has
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: mostly directed dog shit, and released... Riccola!
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: And released.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: Had to be done. And released in 2022, our IMDb synopsis,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: when an elite team of mercenaries breaks into a family
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: compound on Christmas Eve, a disgruntled Santa must take them
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: out one by one. The Die Hard is a Christmas
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: movie joke is taken to its logical conclusion and can
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: be honorably retired.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: So have you all ever seen Scrooged?
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is the beginning of Scrooged.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: Yes with where uh yes the north pole gets attacked
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: and the six million dollar man has to help them.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: Yes dan is it true that tommy warkola has only
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: ever made dog shit beyond this because like i he's
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: he's like norwegian right so he's he made he made
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: like a christmas zombie or like a winter zombie movie.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about what in the snow i was
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: thinking about checking out some of the other stuff but
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: based on this i did not i have not liked
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: anything else i saw blood in the snow i kind
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: of think it sucks maybe i'm maybe i'm in the
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: minority there all right so.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: This is a norwegian director who got like a mild u.s
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: action budget yeah i mean.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: This feels more like a god i'm gonna forget the
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: name of the it's the action company choreography company that
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: was founded from the the dna of the john wick
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: movies so their you know their fingerprints are on atomic
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 3: blonde and like a lot of these other movies um
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: like their logos at the beginning and it feels very
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: much like that one of those movies.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: Wait is their logo is their logo the like stick
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: figures fighting yeah okay that was them this was them yeah.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: That's what i mean so like this that's like this
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: feels more like Rather than think of it as a
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: Tommy Riccola movie, I think of it as a that
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: company movie. I think it's like character actor, whatever it's called,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: but like that it's, it's one of the fight or
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: flight was another one. Like this is what they do.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: Which I enjoyed by the way.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: It's so fun. But that's the thing. They're really fun. Like,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: and I, and the director doesn't matter as much.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: For these movies.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: Sort of like, you know, it's like, we're going to just,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: it's sort of like those nineties movies where it's like,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: maybe Simon West directed Con Air. Maybe it was this
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: other guy who cares. Yeah. It looks like a Bruckheimer film.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 3: It looks like a Bruckheimer film. The director is not
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: that important.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: I will say for certain that Simon West directed Con
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: Air because he's not that good of a director. And, like,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: that's the detriment of Con Air. A movie that we
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: have all heard me say now I love a million times.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: A movie that Dan put up against hard-boiled like a
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: fucking asshole because he wanted.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: To watch it. That is so unfair. It was a
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: low seed. That is what happens when you're a low seed.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: You get smoked in.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: The first round.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: That's how brackets work. I get it.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: God damn.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: No, it's fine. Con Air shouldn't have been there.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: I think anything against John Woo is sort of like, oh, man. Yeah.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: It got an honorable death.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: It went out in glorious combat.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: The Danny Trejo death in that's pretty good.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: I will say, but yeah. But like five minutes of hard-boiled,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: you already get ten more good deaths than that.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But this is, as you pointed out, this is
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: very much riding off of this sort of advancement in
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: action movie technology post-John Wick, where they're basically like, we
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: can kind of just automatically make a really good action
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: movie scene. So for the, you, the rest of it,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: we can just fuck around. Like, you know, you can,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: we can do one long shot. That is a, a,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: a good actor, fucking Bob Odenkirk or whatever, beating the
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: shit out of someone. It's gonna look good. So now
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: we can fuck around with all this others.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: And I would say this is the, because of that, like,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: this is the weaker of those because like, The beauty
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: of Nobody is that even just the scenes with Bob
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: Odenkirk being Bob Odenkirk and living his life are good scenes.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: And then you get to see him kick ass. This movie,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: it's sort of like, there's a little bit of family
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 3: drama and whatnot, but I've seen this done. Like, You're
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: Next does that so much better.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 3: Or Ready or Not does that so much better. And
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: it was even a little disappointing. It's like, I love
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 3: John Leguizamo, but he feels like he's kind of falling
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: in here. And he's got some great lines, but it's like,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: john i saw you in romeo and juliet i know
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: what you're capable of bring bring your a game here john.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: The the eat the rich hey you're gonna spend a
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: lot of time with this family of like wealthy assholes
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: it is very unsatisfying and just there as yeah like
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: as opposed to ready or not these rich pricks are
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: not very much fun to spend they're not they're.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: Not that interesting um Other than, I think, the stunt
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: casting of Beverly D'Angelo.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: That was pretty dope. I will agree. That's pretty dope.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: By the way, I went and looked it up. 87
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: North is the name of the studio.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: And their movies are, like I said, consistently good action movies.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: But it's the non-action scenes that set some of them
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: apart from others.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: That was exactly what Dan said about Fight or Flight.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: yes anytime josh hartnett isn't on screen it's the.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: Heart and innocence oh my god i'm so happy with
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: this him and what's his name from scream uh not
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: the other killer matthew lillard yeah are having this beautiful
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: like renaissance right now i am.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: Loving it i mean so i will the this and
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: fight or flight kind of suffer from the same syndrome
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: which is like like marty said anytime josh hartnett isn't
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: on the screen fight or flight fucking sucks right but
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: when he when he is just being there it's incredible
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: kind of anytime david harbour is.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: David harbour makes the goddamn movie i'll be honest i
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: think the little kid is also fantastic.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: Oh i'm a little kid hard disagree oh really hard
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: disagree i found that kid annoying i thought that the
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: acting was grating i hated that kid Wow.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: I would have been fine with the, like, Norse lesbian
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: lady shooting her in the head. Like... Oh, Jesus. I... I.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: I... The hard... The hard... Disagree? No, I thought their dynamic, the,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: you know, and they, of course, have to be the
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: Al Powell and John McClane of this movie.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: Their dynamic, I felt, I found really good. Situation she
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 3: finds herself in, and it's like, I wish my parents
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: would get back together. That's very generic, and that's not
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: very well fleshed out at all.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: Like, the writer just.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: Miracle on 34th Street.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: Doesn't do her any favors, but as a performance, I
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: was actually pretty compelled, especially when she starts killing people.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: I felt she was like, I felt she was like
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: treacly and like, you know, how high can we adjust?
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: Like cuter, cuter, cuter.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: See, I didn't think she was that cute. That's the
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: thing about this movie though. It never switches from the
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: Christmas soundtrack to the action movie soundtrack. It is the
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: Christmas soundtrack. throughout the whole thing. And she is doing,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: I think, I don't know if it's intentionally or not,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: the really cloying 1980s Christmas movie performance where the kid
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: is like, golly gee willikers! Like, she's, yeah, at no
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: point does she switch to, like, modern kid performance.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: That was another thing that was not, like, up to
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: par was, like, you could tell the score was trying
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: to be Michael Kamen. Yeah.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: Without actually being Michael came in, like missing some of
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: the key lessons. Cause, cause the diets, the diehard score
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 3: very beautifully weaves in, let it snow very beautifully.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: And, and, and what this does is sort of like,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: it's almost like, uh, it's going to sound bad, but
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: like chat GPT trying to do that.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: It's trying to homage too many things. Cause I noted
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: that I was like, it's, I was like, you're trying,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: but kind of failing to do the diehard thing. You're
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: also kind of trying, but failing to do the John
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: Williams home alone thing. And that's also what kind of
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: is the problem with this movie is that it's trying
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: to homage too many things at once that said, I
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: like this movie a lot.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: Um, It's a super fun movie.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: It's a very fun movie. And I think it's going
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: to do really well. Like it's going to do upsettingly
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: well in what.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: I said, because of the nature of the film, it
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: lends itself to a lot of these categories.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: Right. So, and this, this is also our most recent
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: movie on the bracket, right?
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: 2022.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think we have anything newer than this.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I, and yeah, I went from being like, fuck
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: did i fuck up does this belong on the bracket
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: to being like is this gonna fucking upset the raid
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: oh jesus christ like I'm stressed about this matchup.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: I almost skipped this movie. You texted me that earlier
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: this week. I almost skipped rewatching this movie because I
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: just watched it at Christmas. So I only watched it
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: like four months ago. And then as soon as you
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: texted me that, I was like, what the fuck is
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: Dan talking about? And then about 30 minutes in, I
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: texted you back. Oh, I see. Yeah.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: So this was the one I have been like pacing
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: around my house, trying to not think about all fucking week.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: That's a good enough intro as anything.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: Let's fucking do it. So let's start with, Round one,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: goon quality. Let's open up with The Raid, and let's
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: talk about our favorite goon in this movie. What do
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: we got, guys? So, I mean, Mad Dog.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: What the fuck? Why are we even joking here? Mad
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: Dog is so good that Gareth recasts him as a
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 3: different character in Raid 2, because he's like, this guy's
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: too fucking good.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the only guy who can do that.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: If you ever see Boy Kills World, they literally... redo
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: the end scene from this movie and as the end
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 3: scene for that movie with the same goddamn actor yes
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: so it's like this guy this act is so fucking
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: good i would say he's actually the best kung fu
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 3: like star like the best martial artist in the movie
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: to the point where in the movie kind of acknowledges
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 3: it's like yeah you're it's gonna take two people to
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 3: take this guy down So as far as goon quality,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: holy shit. But overall, like I had a note here,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: the bad guys in this movie are like competency. Like
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 3: the movie does a really good job of opening with, okay,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: we've got these tough, hard cops going in and they're
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 3: going to snatch this guy from behind and they don't
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: even know. And within five minutes, the people in the
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 3: building who are totally unassuming, they're just in rags, just
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: start fucking owning the shit out of them. Like even
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: when he's like, you two go up, they literally, jump
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: up a level without even, like, any hesitation. They're not like,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know, boss. It's like, nope, here we go. Like,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 3: insanely competent. Like, everyone is at least a mini-boss in
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: this goddamn movie.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: Yes. Not everyone. One of the things I find interesting
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: about the, like, I've been referring to them as putty patrol,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: the apartment dwellers, right, is that you can see varying
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: levels of martial arts ability and like fighting ability. Some
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: of these guys are like, I don't know what the
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: belt system is, but some of these guys are just
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: like just below the black belt. Some of these guys
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: are just below mad dog maybe. And then sometimes you
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: get someone who's just like, I'm running across the table.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to jump on you. And there are, especially
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: in the cocaine lab phase, fight you know yes some
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: guys who just look like they're desperately grabbing and some
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: guys who are super and i think that variability the
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: fact that they don't call attention to it and it's
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: in the thing moves so fast it seems like everyone's
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: really competent but if you watch closely you can see
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: the different levels that is fascinating to me yeah it
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: does a really it does a much better job than
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: dread does of the like criminal underworld like gangsters versus
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: just looking for a fucking job kind of guys here
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: which is the essentially the root of all goonness.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: Let us talk about the goon industrial complex shall we
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: i mean this is let's talk about capitalism do you
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: get goons without capitalism let's discuss.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: We talked about this with hard-boiled right sometimes sometimes most
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: goons are there like i got it i need a
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: fucking job the joker gives me money like the joker
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: pays really well yeah But some coons are there just like, yeah, whatever.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: Let's blow up this hospital. I guess I'm in for this,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: in for a penny, in for a pound. So there's
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: two different elements there. In this case, in the raid
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: and dread, I think you get this sense of like
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: everybody is there. They have a monetary obligation or a
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: sense like we have to do this because the person
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: who owns this building is making us. But some of
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: them are just like, yeah, I can't wait to fucking
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: kill some cops.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: Some of them are like, I'm going to kill the
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: shit out of a judge. Dead.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: Psychopaths.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: The main bad guy in the raid does a better
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: job of incentivizing than Ma does, right? Ma's just sort
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: of like, hey, the sooner they're dead, the sooner things
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 3: go back to normal. Or the guy in the raid's like, yo,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: you get to live here rent-free.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: Like, I'm going to make this, like, give you no
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 3: reason to say no to this shit.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: To Marty's point, the cool thing is, is like they
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: have like squads and each one kind of has like
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: There's the rookie who's like the young buck and he
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: gets like fucked up by Rama. And then one of
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: the other guys will be like, you just fucked up
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: like the kid. I'm pissed off. I'm going to come
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: at you harder. But there is always like the point
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: where Rama will run into somebody that is like head
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: and shoulders tougher than everybody else. And he always does
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: like a little like jump backwards dodge where he's like, oh, fuck,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: this is a tough one. And like, I watched the
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: drug lab thing like three times because I had to
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: chart like, okay, he's going to this guy, fucks him
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: up in like two hits. That woman is able to
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: like put him on his heels a little bit. He's
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: on even ground with this guy. He's given him some trouble.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: And it is always like when getting a little bit
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: into kill quality, but whenever he, the tougher the guy
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: he encounters requires more and more like brutality to put down. Yes,
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: it is. We're going to get into Mad Dog for
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: like 15 minutes, but I think mine are the fucking snipers. Oh, terrifying.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: Because it's like this old veteran and this young guy.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: And they shoot somebody. He gives them instructions. Like, I'm
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: going to shoot the one on the left. You shoot
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: the one on the right. And then he stops and
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: be like, let him scream. Yes. And it just is
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: such a short story of like, these guys have a
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: fucking relationship. And they are ice cold killers. And you
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: just understand these two dudes so, so much so quickly.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: And they are fucking terrifying.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: It's the equivalent of don't be impatient. Just wound them.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: you know what i mean yeah i'm like god.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Damn they're basically doing the sniper from yes from full metal.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: Yes that is yes that's the whole thing of like
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: oh shit that's what i'm saying it's like the the
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 3: the goons in dread even ma has to take over
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: the building right she has to shoot the control people
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: and like the the bad guy and what's his name
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 3: i got i got us like the the bad the
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 3: main guy.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: Right yana yana Yara?
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so he already owns the building. He already runs it.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: He doesn't need Domhnall Gleeson. He doesn't need that name.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 3: He's just, I'm going to run it.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: Tama. Tama doesn't need any of that.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: He's already got the whole thing under control. He just
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: has to say, you go here, you go there, and
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: they do it. Like, they're organized.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: And it feels like he has tamed this building. Like, yeah,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: they look like just normal junkies. And you're like, no, no, no.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: He controls the wildest, scariest motherfuckers. in the entire universe
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: and has just brought them down to the level of.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: Of goon.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: Even if you shoot them, they'll keep shooting. That's good.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 3: One.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: One guy gets shot in the arm.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 3: And he's just like, doesn't even think it's like, I'm
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: going to sky up now. Now you just made me angry.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: God, I kind of hope we don't wind up with
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: a raid V dread situation. Cause we're kind of doing
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: raid V dread right now, but like in dread, uh,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: We see a whole montage of Mama wiping out and
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: absorbing these gangs, right? In the raid, we're just told
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: that that happened. We are just told that Tama has
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: been attacked by rival gangs before and wiped the floor
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: with them. And some of them got absorbed and they're
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: in here now. I believe being told by Tama more
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: than I believe being like watching Mama do it. And
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say something like real controversial here, Dan.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: You and I talked for a little bit when we
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: were first putting this list together about like what qualifies
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: as a goon and what doesn't. And we were debating
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: if we wanted to even include Mad Dog as a goon.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: And after rewatching it, yeah, why the fuck? Of course
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: he was. Like he has no other motivation than like,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: I work for this guy and I punch and kick.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: Like he has no, he has no inner life. I
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: think he has, I think he has 12 lines total
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: and four of them are, I like punch and kick. Like,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: but I think we were talking about that because we
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: thought like, oh, this whole movie is about, is Mad Dog.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: He's the goon, right? After I watched the raid this morning,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: you know, Mad Dog doesn't do anything until like an
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: hour and 10 minutes in. And I was like, you could,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: this movie could actually make a pretty good run for it.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: Without Mad Dog Yeah This movie would still Have a
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: fighting chant A shot Just because All these extras And
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: before him The heavy is Some guy with a machete
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: He doesn't get a name And I was confused Not
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: to be confused With the guy with the machete Who
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: slides out From under the zip ties And escapes from
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: the chair And grabs the machete That's duct taped to
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: his And then Different machete guy Complete There's like four machete.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: Guys I have I have two notes in here One
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: is Machetes are scary Yeah But two is, do they
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: have machetes under every table? Because you don't know when
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: the police are coming. You don't know you're going to
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 3: be taken to that particular room. So do they just
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 3: like on spec have every like room? Okay, this is
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 3: a machete room.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 3: Every room you got to have at least one machete
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: hidden somewhere.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: Like fire extinguishers.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: It's like fire safety.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: I think every room that you're in in this building
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: has at least three to four machetes in it at
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: all times.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: So that one particular machete guy with the hoodie and
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: the chain who is kind of our heavy, the guy
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: who's definitely like ready to fuck up some cops.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: Alfredus Godfrey.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: Alfredus Godfrey is the name of that. We'll call him,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: we'll just call him Alfredus because he doesn't have an
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: actual name.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: Alfredus is such a weird one for me because to
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: hear him talk and to hear him try to boss
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: the others around, maybe 2026 is really harsh, but he's
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: got these bug eyes and he looks and sounds like
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Kash Patel. I cannot respect this man at all.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 3: But, but.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: But how fucking scary is it when he's jabbing that
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: machete into the wall, man?
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: Or when he's doing the Freddy Krueger thing of like
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: scraping the machete along the tiles. And this is, you're right.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: This is where he's the slasher element of it. and
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: so like yeah whenever he does any actual acting i'm
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: like shut up man i cannot respect you but whenever
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: he is the threat i'm like damn when he's finally
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: taken out and i did notice mad dog doesn't do
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: anything in the movie until after this guy is taken
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: out they swap in heavies he is taken out not
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: super easily but not super hard to kill him either
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: like yeah he's he's a mid-tier guy He just gets,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: maybe they just really like that actor.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: How does he get killed?
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: He gets to jump ahead. Rama jumps out of the
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: fire escape with him.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good one.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: Lands on a fire escape with him, lands, and then
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: you watch him have a seizure. But he is, like,
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: up until this point, I'd say he is not necessarily, like,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: the threat in that. The machete gang is. And they
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: are like the hunter killers of this situation. Or it's like.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: You said earlier, we follow the weapon. We don't follow
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: the person. The machete is the heavy.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: Yes. These guys are simply machete delivery vehicles.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: And Mad Dog, they are sniper delivery vehicles. Mad Dog
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: is the only one where he's the weapon.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 3: In fact, he makes a point of that. And I
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 3: don't usually love this in movies, but I give a
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: pass for Mad Dog where it's like, yes, I have
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 3: a gun, but I prefer to use my hands. He
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: gives that speech and he sells it though. And as
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: an audience, you're like, yeah, I'd rather see you fuck
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: with this guy, like fight this guy than just shoot
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: him at it too. So like, I'm in Mad Dog.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 3: You do your thing.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: I think part of the reason- It's wild that Mad
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: Dog had a gun in the first place. Yeah, it's like,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: why is he even doing that? It is to that point.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: He looks so uncomfortable with it. And I do, I
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: think part of the reason why the, I don't want
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: to use my gun, I use my hands monologue- works
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: for Mad Dog in this scene is that the guy
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: he's up against is a foot and a half taller
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: than him.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: Mad Dog himself, Yayan Ruhan, he's a short king. He's
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: like 5'5. He's like 110 pounds. He's so small. And
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: he's going up against a guy who's so much taller
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: than him and in full body armor. And so when
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, I'm just going to use these hands.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: You're like, okay, little guy, let's see what's going on.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: Let's see this.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: It's time for mad dog chat. Mad dog.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 3: It's bedtime.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: It's bedtime, son.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: Mad Dog being so small enhances him because everybody that's
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: fighting Mad Dog is like, well, this doesn't make any
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: fucking sense. He's like up to my rib cage. Why
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: am I not demolishing him? Like it's the it's the
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: inverse odd job where it's like. he's so fucking small
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: and you just you just keep punching and nothing fucking
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: happens and you like you can just see the protagonist
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: getting so fucking frustrated it's just like punching iron.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 3: It's fucking yoda versus count dooku that's what it is
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 3: though it's like you think this guy's gonna be easy
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: but then it's like no no no no no He
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: is versatile. He can move faster than you. He is
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: fucking nimble.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: Unlike the hard-boiled Mad Dog, though, who is omnipresent through
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: the entire movie, right? The Raid's Mad Dog only has
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: two fight scenes.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: I was shocked when I watched it.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 3: What I love about that is he's what I call
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 3: a presence character. You show him early on and the
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: actor is so good that without moving a fucking muscle,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: you're like, do not fuck with this guy yeah this
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 3: movie is telling me with every fiber of its being
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: do not fuck with this guy hope to god our
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 3: hero never runs into him and then when he finally
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: because the way you the first fight with him They
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 3: literally just open a door and he's there.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: It's like, fuck. Yeah.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: You guys are so fucked right now. You didn't even
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: get to build up to him.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: It's the Jack Burton bit. It's a Jack Burton bit
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: where Jack Burton is about to charge in and he
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: opens the door and there's a whole army behind him.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: And he just shuts the door behind him and goes, shit.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: It's that, but it's just the one guy.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like all takes.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: And he is always airborne to some degree. Like you
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: open the door and he's flying at you.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, and to use like, you know, Mortal Kombat terms,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 3: his high attacks and his low attacks are equally deadly.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: Like there is nowhere you can engage with him where
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 3: you've got the upper hand. You just don't.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: He is immediately doing a shadow of the Colossus on you.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: Like he is on you, he is climbing on you,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: and he is like finding your glowing weak spot.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: Realizing that... Mad Dog only has two fight scenes in
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: this movie. That was like learning that there's only like
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: 14 minutes of dinosaurs in Jurassic Park.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: Or that Hannibal Lecter's only in like six minutes of
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: Silence of the Lambs or whatever that is.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 3: Because that's all he needs.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: Because the final fight scene with Andy and Rama fighting
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: him feels like it's six hours. Because you just feel
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: this sense of exhaustion. You're like, still?
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: Still?
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: Still, he won't go down. They've done so much stuff
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: to him.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: They put a fricking light in his neck and it
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 3: just made him mad. There's still like a good minute
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: of fight after that.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: Part of that is the editing because we get halfway
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: through this scene and then it abruptly cuts to the
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: lieutenant and Tama and a bunch of the cop drama
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: just kind of becomes the departed for a little bit
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: over here. And it does that for a little while
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: and then it cuts back to the scene.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: Which by the way, getting back to that whole like
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: middle management thing, it's like, Even the top guy in
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 3: this movie is like lower middle management, you find out.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 3: Especially if you watch the sequel, you're like, oh man,
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: he was like fucking Dwight Schrute. Basically.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: Another like insane thing about Mad Dog is like he
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: he's this like so bright and vibrant and like excited
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: when he's fighting someone. And then it ends and the
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: light just immediately leaves his eyes. He's like fucking Data
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: from Star Trek. All right, I'm done.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 3: Yo, I would love to see that fight. Like, I
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: feel like, I mean, Data's going to win just because,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: but it's going to last a hell of a lot
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 3: longer than it should.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 2: Dan, Dan, bracket, bracket or draft? Droid fight. Droid fight.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: Droid fight.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: Droid fight.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: Data versus Bishop. Go!
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take bishop i'm taking bishop really interesting.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah bishop shows actual aggression.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: Anyway all right on to violent knights goons we have
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: the mercenaries and we have the response team what are
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: you guys feeling i have the list of our of
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: our mercenaries here in the heavy section to help you
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: guys who's your favorite goon in on the violent.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 3: Really hard So I kind of like, so I have
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 3: a note here. I like terrorists who wear Christmas sweaters.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 3: So my favorite goon is probably the inside guy who's
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 3: actually working for the terrorist. Like the sort of vaguely
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 3: Dutch bearded dude who gets the nail through the chin.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: Gingerbread.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: That guy's name is Gingerbread.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: And that's the other thing.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 3: I love when goons have code names. I love that.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 3: That's such a great trope. And they have a lot
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 3: of fun with that too. So that's cool. He might
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: be my favorite, but I do is in general. And
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: I like Krampus. He's probably my second favorite. I don't,
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 3: but again, like, like we saw him, I don't feel
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 3: like he's this, he's not as mean as he needs
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 3: to be. Like none of these goons. I think part
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 3: of it is they didn't want to kill any of
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 3: the family members. Like the, the goons in, let's put
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 3: it this way. If the goons in the raid took
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 3: over that house, the movie would be over in three seconds.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: It's like they're being held back. Like weirdly, this is,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 3: I think a harder movie. there's lots of gore yeah
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 3: and yet the villains are weirdly reticent to commit violence
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 3: right like i don't get to as much and so
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 3: it takes the threat level down a little bit you're
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 3: not really as scared of them and as a result
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: the goons themselves don't come off as like crampus should
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: be terrifying um and yet it's just he's sort of
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: like does he really want.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: To be there Krampus seems like one of the workaholics like.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: He's more of an annoying little guy and.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: In a way I like that in a way I
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: like that he's just a little shit like I also
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: wrote down what's.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: The little rat creature from Jabba the Hutt he's another
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: salacious crumb than.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 3: The beast from fucking whatever yeah.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: So, okay, I've been having trouble with this because I
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: do think traditionally.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: We would do this.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: We've rewarded the kitsch. We've rewarded themes. We've rewarded everybody
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: being on theme and everybody having a different person. The
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: code names on there. And since this is a Christmas movie,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: it lends itself very easily to that. I mean, I
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: will go ahead and say our heavies are named Gingerbread, Krampus,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: Candy Cane, Frosty, Tinsel, Jingle, Peppermint, and Sugar Plum. And
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: it's not even just that. Like you pointed out, Andre
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: Erickson is this big Norse dude, giant guy, who they
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: disguise themselves as a catering company.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: And he's like the boss of the catering company. I
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: do like the idea that they are very shitty caterers.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: I think that little detail that they added is very funny.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: And he's wearing a Christmas sweater. over like under his
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: blazer the way that like a caterer would but he's
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: such a big imposing figure it looks cool it looks
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: good i like that like you know for no reason
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: really some of the extra heavies are dressed up as
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: nutcrackers and shit while they fight i love that i
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: love the vibe i really who's my favorite in here
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: the problem is you got johnny legs you got his
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: legs You got Johnny Legs. You got his two lieutenants.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: His two lieutenants are Gingerbread and Candy Cane. You got Krampus,
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: who is the little shithead.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: He's on hostage duty, so you're mostly having him just
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: fuck with people.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: And then everybody else is kind of interchangeable. I realized
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: upon watching this movie the third time I've seen this movie,
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: One of our crew gets away clean completely. Sugar Plum,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: who is the safe cracker, the Asian hacker character.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: No, she gets shot in the back.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 3: When?
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: It's by the mom when she first gets, she's the
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: first person she shoots. But it's so fast that I
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: had to like, I literally had to like freeze frame.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: To catch it. I saw that three times. I thought
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: that she got away. Okay. I think maybe you've got
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: it listed here under the desk. I don't know. Who's
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: my favorite. I mean, like, ah, because I think he
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: has one of the best fight scenes with Santa Claus
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: is Frosty. I think it's Frosty.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: Which, which fight is that? Which, which, how does that
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 3: fight end?
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: Star to the face.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good one.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, but, I mean, his performance is pretty bad.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: I like, I think what I'm realizing here from your,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to shut up after this, what I'm
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: realizing here from Dan's question is I think I like
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: these heavies as a collective, but when you ask me
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: to point out an individual, they all kind of fall flat.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 3: Well, see, and I think that's the problem, right? It's
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 3: like you listed all those names, and I couldn't tell
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 3: you which one was which.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 3: There's nothing that's like, Sugarplum? It's one thing to have
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 3: the concept of the team and how they're going to
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: break down, but then to actually think through, okay, what
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 3: makes this one different than that? Why do you need
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: this one and not that? Have that really work through that.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: This movie doesn't do that work.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: You got two lieutenants that have distinct personalities and everybody
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: else is just interchangeable.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: And even in that, it's sort of like the Swedish
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 3: lady is mad all the time. Like, I don't know. Like,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: that's that's not a personality.
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to throw this at you to discuss interchangeability.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: The response team. I love a bunch of goons that
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: are highly militarized, like faceless, like soldier SWAT team types
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: and watching them get their asses kicked. I always find that.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 3: And the guy leading the response team and his like, yes.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: way over the top cock metaphors. I'm like, okay, this
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 3: guy is having a good time. This guy knows what
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 3: movies he's in.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: I find, I really find like the response team is
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: so much fun because they are so like professional and cocky.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: And even in like the brief like moments they get,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: they all pop with like a lot of personality. Like
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: I get these guys so much, like despite the mercenaries
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: having like all these like very different distinct personalities. The
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: response team just made me so much happier. I was like,
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, these kinds of guys are in this movie.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: Hell yes.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: Quick point of order, Dave. Uh, while we were taking
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: a break, I took a look at 87 North productions
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: and fight or flight is actually not them. Oh, interesting.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: It's not them. And actually looking at their, their like
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: list of movies, I would say they've got a, like
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: they got a pretty high hit or miss ratio. Like they're,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: they're hit or miss a bullet train, depending on how
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: you feel about that. However, There is one movie they
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: have in development. The title of this movie is Jason
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: Statham Stole My Bike. And if Jason Statham Stole My
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: Bike gets made, it doesn't even have a link in
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: the Wikipedia. It's that far in development. It's basically probably just...
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: that's the name of the script if jason stole my
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: bike is if that gets produced that might become my
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: favorite movie of all time i like i like that.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's going to be a kind of
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: like vin diesel the pacifier situation.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe yeah there is by the way a violent
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: night 2 scheduled for.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: I saw that yeah Kristen Bell is going to be Mrs. Claus,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: which I don't know if I'm disappointed by.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: Eh, she's fine.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: They were shooting for Charlize Theron. I also do want
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: to point out, Gingerbread, to his credit, does get one
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: of the first puns of the movie where he does
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: a joke about, you guys do not celebrate my favorite holiday, punch,
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: boxing day.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: Terrible.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, first time. Fucking awful. And arguably the worst. The
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: movie needed more.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: It needed more of that.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. I wanted it to commit. Yeah.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 3: Like, we were just on the verge of being like,
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: we're just going to go all in on this. And
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 3: a lot like Johnny Lake's performance, it was like, I
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 3: can tell you're not committing. I can tell you're holding back.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 3: Come on, man.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: Just go for it.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: Go big.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: Go big or go home.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: You have to be Rickman. You have to be Rickman.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: I know that those are big shoes to fill. but
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: you have to commit to the level of fucking.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 3: Well, and that's the thing, like, like a Harbor commits. Yeah.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: Harbor is just like, I'm going all in on this.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: I am Santa Claus.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: Yes. I am an alcoholic.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 3: Yes. I am disillusioned. Like I am going all, I'm basically, uh,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: what's his name from stranger things. If he were Santa Claus.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: Like, and I'm, and I have no, and I'm not,
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: and I'm not.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: Ashamed of that.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 3: I am just going to double down on that shit.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: And here we go. And like, not everyone is working.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: Not everyone is like committing like that.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, Harbor, I don't know how well Harbor's career
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: is going to go, but he's kind of limited in
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 2: range as an actor. I don't think he's getting typecast.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: I just think that this is what he is okay at.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 3: Never hurt Statham.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: Right, right. Jason Statham, he can steal a bike and
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: a whole movie will be made about it, right? But
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: I think this is working for him. And again, because
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: he's not ashamed of it. John Leguizamo, man, and I
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: love him. Brother, you're not too good for this.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: No. No. Yeah. He's acting like he's slumming it. He's like,
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a taste of Leguizamo. That's all you deserve.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 3: No, man.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, God, he does get these moments. By the way,
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: John Leguizamo's codename is Mr. Scrooge. I presume because you
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: would have to clear the rights to Grinch. To use
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: that name.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: That seems to be... If you want like an anti...
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: A guy who is trying to fight Christmas. I do
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: like Leguizamo. Not a goon. But I do like Leguizamo's
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: whole twist from like... I'm here to get some money.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: And I hate these rich people.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 3: To.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: I fucking hate Christmas. And I get to kill Christmas.
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: I like that that becomes his switch. I like the
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: scene with him and his two lieutenants. Where they are
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: interrogating Santa Claus. And for a brief moment... gingerbread and
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: i think it's candy cane are like are you real
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: santa like that's the moment where our lieutenants get a
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: little bit of personality yeah it's charming enough that it
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: carries like.
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: I i would say candy cane and gingerbread are playing
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: this movie at a very specific frequency and there is
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: that is one moment where the movie kind of meets
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: their frequency and And the point where it is 100%
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: on point is the Home Alone scene. Yeah. I think
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: that is the moment where what they are doing is
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: absolutely fucking perfect for where this movie, because they are
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: Joe Pesci and guy whose name I'm mad that I'm- Stern.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: Daniel Stern.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: Daniel Stern.
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, Marty, to your point about trying
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 3: to do too many things, what that scene is accomplishing
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 3: is the joke of, hey, if this were real life,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 3: Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern would be fucking dead. Like
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 3: it is saying, what if we took those traps seriously?
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 3: How much damage would they cause? I'm like, okay, that's new.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 3: That's interesting and fits here. but you're also trying to
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 3: accomplish die hard and five other things.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, okay, we'll get into that and to kill quality.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: Cause I have some thoughts about that particular bit. Cause
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: it breaks its own rules and it bothers me. And
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I, I, I've sort of talked myself
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: out of it. You know, I was going to really
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: make a hard case for violent night here because of
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: the theme and, and the shtick. But as we talk here,
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what was I even thinking?
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, a little bit, a little bit. I thought
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: I was psyched out. I was like, fuck, holy shit.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: Are they going to knock out the raid just because
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: the guys in the raid are like relatively anonymous? But no,
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: I think like machete under the table guy has so
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: much personality.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: It comes down to this, right? Honestly, I think this
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: is seeding. I think this is seeding. I think if
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: you had done this in dread, again, again, we're talking
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: about our slum dweller movies here. If you had put
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: this against the same type of goons in dread, I
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: think violent night would have cleaned, like clean the floor
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: with it. Absolutely. But the raids guys are just, even
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: though they're just some guys in fucking jeans and wife beaters, right.
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 3: And T-shirts. Yeah.
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know. There's something about the, the, this whole crew.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: They feel, they feel real. They feel like this.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 3: This feels like lived in, you know what I mean?
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've never been to like a rundown slum in Jakarta,
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: but this is what I imagine it feels like, you know,
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: god the rate this movie feels sweaty it's movie yes
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: humid yeah.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 3: You know it is it's funny so like there's it's
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 3: there's been looking sweaty and feeling sweaty top gun looks
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 3: sweaty like watch that movie again sometime every surface is
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 3: covered in sheen and it's kind of gross yeah yeah
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 3: this film feels so i can feel the heat of
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 3: the tropics in this goddamn movie i can feel and
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 3: it's like I can't believe you have to do this
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 3: movie in fucking SWAT gear. You must be dying in there.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I don't think this is going to be,
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: at least this round, I don't think it's going to
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: be as hard as I thought it was.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: Are we ready for our round one votes? Yeah.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: Can I do one last thing?
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, sure. Yay!
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: I like little shithead Krampus. I love that he is
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: probably the... Because he's on hostage duty, so he's the
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: only one who really gets to interact with this terrible
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: fucking family. And he's delighting and fucking with them. I
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: like the part where he's like, oh, you know what's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: gonna be fun? Open your presents, assholes. Open it. Like,
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: he's just... doing but again we needed more i yeah
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: and i feel like i needed to when he finally
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: does get fucking murked i it felt unearned partly because
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: again our hostages here are victims they're all shit yeah
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: even though they're.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 3: Like interesting shit like you get with like we were
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 3: saying before the ready or not where it's like yeah
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 3: these guys are entertainingly shitty it's like succession or succession
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 3: is a story of some horrible fucking people but they're
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: so entertainingly horrible. I will stay with them, you know?
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: These people are entertainingly horrible.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: Another Legasamo supporting one, like The Menu, right?
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, God, yes.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 3: I can watch those assholes just be jerks and then get,
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: you know, destroyed all day. Yeah, there is a lack
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 3: of characterization that these other films have that this feels
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 3: like more surface.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: Except for, because she's so good, Ely Pattinson playing the, like,
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: shitty bitchy sister with her with her she's pretty.
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 3: Good and a lot of that is the dynamic between
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 3: her and her boyfriend.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: And that is where we get the line that i
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: introed us with and i just need to make sure
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 2: that everyone understands that when i said kiss me in
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: front of my son at the beginning of this of
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: this episode i was referencing a thing that haley pattinson
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: says in the movie i thought it was interesting that
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: we did a movie earlier with the line fuck me
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: with on your dead mom and now we're getting kiss
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: me in your in front of my son Where.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 3: Does fuck me and your dead mom come from?
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're next.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fuck me on the bed
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: next to your dead mom.
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 3: Got it, got it, got it, yeah.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That one was notable for me, and
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: now I feel weird about saying it.
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought I was going to get
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: more mileage in this conversation out of.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: I don't really.
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: These guys aren't really doing anything wrong other than maybe
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: killing a child. If they let the child and the
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: mom and maybe the dad go, I would have no
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: problem with these people. I would be like, yeah, go
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: for it, man.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 3: You mean the people breaking in? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: The Christmas gang for all.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the Christmas gang, yeah.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: Get that money. Go for it, dude. Have a good one.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: And part of that, you're right, because part of this
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: is they are stealing money that the family already stole.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: And they stole it from the U.S. government who was
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: using it to pay off like Afghani warlords or something
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: So like, I don't give a shit.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 3: At no point in this money's life was it good. Yeah.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: I don't care which crook gets this money. Yeah.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: Which I thought was kind of like going to be like, ah,
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: it's cool that these are like the most okay, but
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: it's not real. Now it's not really doing anything for
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: me up against the, all right, we ready for vote.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: Let's put it.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like we know how the votes go. And Dave,
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: you start. Oh yeah.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: It's, it's the raid. I'm sorry. Like, like on paper, the,
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 3: the goons in violent night should seem more colorful, more interesting. Um,
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 3: In practice, like you said, the guy who just pulls
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 3: the machete from under the table has more character than
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 3: half the goons in this fucking movie.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: I am going to also put in a vote for
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: the raid on this. I think that's easy.
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: I can't even do my thing where I like to
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: give one a gentleman's vote after it. doesn't matter dude
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 2: like i'm not gonna give violent night a gentleman's vote
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: on this it's it's the raid it's the raid and
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 2: again placement matters this would have been they would have
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: beat dread but sorry like.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah after a surprisingly impotent showing uh from from violent
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: night the raid takes round one Let's get into the
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: one that is, I think, going to be much more
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: of a drag out.
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: This is harder.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Round two, choreography and kill quality. Let's start with
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: the raid and let's start with favorite kill.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: Everybody fucking smoke them if you got them. Drink your
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: four locos or whatever. This is going to be a while.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: So I have a couple.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 3: I have a winner, but I have a couple of
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: contenders for best raid kill. So I think it's easy
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 3: to go with the fluorescent light through the neck and
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: then the slit. That's awesome and an excellent conclusion to
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 3: an epic fight. You want Mad Dog to be so
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 3: goddamn hard to kill. You want him to keep fighting
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 3: for another minute after he gets the fluorescent light through
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 3: the neck, and that's fantastic. But honestly, in terms of
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 3: the sheer surprise and elegance of it, there's two kills
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 3: that stand out. One is Rama knocks a guy off
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: a ledge, And you think he's going to fall down
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 3: all the way through the center, but instead he breaks
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 3: his back on the very next ledge.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: I have that written down.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, God damn.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 3: And that's the kind of just like, oh, like kills
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 3: the make you go, oh, oh, like you just feel it, right?
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: The camera work.
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: Does so much for that because it shoots from above
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: in the way that misdirects you makes you think he's
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: going to drop and then hard turn to the side
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: portfolio profile when he hits the other banister.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 3: So that's my second favorite kill actually my favorite though
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 3: is i don't even know how to describe it he
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: basically falls to the ground while holding someone else and
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 3: smashes their head into a jagged door frame basically right.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: Through the mouth damn it that's the other one i
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: wrote down and it's.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 3: Like it's like because the problem with the raid in
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 3: terms of like kills is like it's not about the
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 3: kills it's about the fights and about the moves right
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 3: so you get all these amazing moves and the final
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 3: move is the kill and it could just be oh
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 3: i stabbed you like the kill itself it's not a
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 3: big deal it's all the stuff that led up to
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 3: the kill but that one it's like he's doing his
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: fight again and then he does something You could never predict.
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 3: I'm going to fall down, bringing this guy with me.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 3: And oh, you forgot the doorframe was there, huh? His
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 3: face just went into, I think through the mouth, into
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 3: a fucking broken doorframe. And you're like, holy shit, what
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 3: just happened?
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: Cause it's so fucking fast. Yes. You don't see it
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: coming every fucking time. I've watched this movie. I've known
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: that's my favorite kill in the fucking movie. And every
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: time I'm still like.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's my third time seeing it. And
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 3: I forget it's going to happen every goddamn time. Yeah.
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: Oh God.
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: All right, Marty, do you, do you want to go next?
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: So I want to be clear about how I watched
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: this movie. I watched it this morning on Pluto TV
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: and I want to give credit to Pluto TV for
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 2: Dan and I were talking about how things get kind
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: of blurry on streaming. Pluto TV handles the action in
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: this very well. But the whole thing is kind of
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: like lower res. It's not really high def. It's a
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: little washed out, which gives it this rented VHS kind
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: of feel that I really like the vibe I dug
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: on it. But what that also means is that my
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: favorite kill in this is one of the hallway fights...
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: Everybody's like crawling around on the ground and are like
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: SWAT jerk grabs a guy by the head and then fires.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: So we really close. He fires several rounds into this
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: man's face. And then we hear Lee Moo. Mutual ad starts.
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: That was my favorite kill of the movie that I
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: watched this morning.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: That's going to be hard to top. The amount of
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: disrespect you're showing to Limuimu's partner, Doug, is incredible right now.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: And Doug. And Doug.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: And Doug. God. Sorry.
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: For reals. Since Dave took a couple of mine, I'm
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 2: going to go with... The kills that Andy gets of
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 2: the goons in the elevator. Because those guys are so confused.
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: There's two guys. They're riding with Andy. Andy pulls out
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: his knife very slowly and has it. The guy to
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: his left looks down, sees the knife, knows what's about
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: to happen. And his last word before he's slashed across
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: the chest and blood goes everywhere is, why?
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: Then shit so sad and.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: Then so bad for that guy he's doing his damn
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: job and you know and you know he was like.
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 3: Yo i'm riding with andy right he's like the top
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 3: of the top yo yeah he's.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 4: Like like next in line I'm just going to, oh,
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 4: and if I impress him, he's going to be so,
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 4: he's going to rate me.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 3: This is going to go in my performance review, yo.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 3: And then you just see him and he's like, I'm
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 3: not getting out of this elevator.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: Visions in his head of him and Andy, like going
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 1: to a ball game together. Like they become best friends after.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: And then the other guy who manages to block Andy
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: once gets stabbed through the neck and you see the
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: knife scratch the wall of the elevator on the other
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: side through the neck. It's so gnarly. Oh my god. Oh,
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: it kicks ass. I'm gonna go with those.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do two as well. And yeah, Dave took
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: the best kill, but my remainders are I love there's
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: a part and it's it's by just one of the
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: SWAT guys, not anybody specific, but there's a part where
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: they're trapped in the room and they've axed their way
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: down from one floor to the other. Yes, they're dropping
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: down and a goon tries to drop down after them.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: And one of the SWAT guys dive tackles him mid
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: drop out a window and you get the briefest Wilhelm screams.
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: And it is just so perfect because it is by
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: some anonymous dude. And it is like the first time
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: where it's like they get a W. And it just
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: is so fast and fluid and great.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: That also has one of my favorite shots when the
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: first SWAT guy drops through down the hole in the floor.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: The camera follows him and looks down over him. So
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: you see him drop down. And then you see like
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: four goons just barrage him and drag him off the screen.
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 3: It is basically, for that first half, it is basically
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 3: a zombie movie.
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 1: I got to do, I think, one of the best
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: kills in the movie, which is that child getting murked.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, come on.
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 3: That is one of the most disturbing. That goes for
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 3: my most disturbing kill.
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: We're not having a good time.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not really.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, the kid lived.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: As a goon and he died. No, no, no, no.
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's gotta be. And I think it is
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: probably a main reason why all of these are on
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: the list. The guy who he's giving Rama a hard
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: time and then Rama grabs him by the head and
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: he smashes it into light fixture, light fixture, wall, wall, floor.
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: And if he is, if that man is not dead,
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: he might as well be dead. And the thing about that,
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 1: which is I think the best thing about all these
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: kills is you hear what it pretty, I'm pretty confident
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: what it would sound like if a human head slammed
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: into a light fixture and then some tile and then
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: some tile and then some concrete. And I'm like, I
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: didn't know what it sounded like. when a human head
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: slams into some tile, but I'm pretty sure it's that.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Marty, to your.
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 3: Point about credit where credit is due, like the sound
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 3: design in this movie is goddamn awesome.
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot about our sound designers, our Foley artists.
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: Shout out to those guys.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: Because when the knife goes through that guy's throat in
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: the elevator, you hear the little scratch of a knife
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: of metal on metal. And when he gets thrown down
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 1: the stairs, you hear a very like, crunch when he
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 1: goes over like the sound every single like not like
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: not just kill but hit in this has an extremely
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: satisfying sound to it that it's like yep that's out
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: that's that's the sound of a body hitting something.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: And i don't want to turn away from this dead
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 3: kid so why that because i again it's one of
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 3: those things where i've seen this movie three times i
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 3: totally forgot that happens That is doing so much work, right?
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 3: Because this whole lead up to that is them very
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 3: carefully infiltrating the building, making sure no one turns on
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 3: any alarms, making sure no one knows they're there. And
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 3: then that fucking kid shows up.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 3: At the end of the hall. And the guy, the
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 3: sort of meaner cop who was being mean to that
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 3: one dude who just wanted to give his wife medicine,
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 3: he's the one who's like.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, just be cool, kid.
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 3: Come over here. Come over.
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: It's okay. Be cool.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 3: And the kid's just standing there. And you know the
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 3: kid's going to run. You know the kid's going to run.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 3: And then there's the sort of brief whatever. And then
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 3: the kid runs. He lowers his gun. The kid runs.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 3: And you're like, fuck. And you want them to stop
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 3: the kid. Because you don't want them to get found out.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 3: And then the kid runs out. And then the guy
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 3: fires the gun. And you're like, you are immediately conflicted
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 3: and complicit. And they're like, oh, the door closed. There's
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 3: no way. Okay, the kid's going to be okay. But oh, shit,
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 3: now he's going to warn everybody. And then the movie
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 3: does a 180 on you. It's like, yeah, he warned everybody,
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 3: but that bullet's still coming. And it's coming from the
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 3: guy you're going to find out later is a total
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: fucking asshole. So you're going to feel okay about hating
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 3: him later.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, at that point, at that point.
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 3: And then when it hits, you're like, oh shit. And
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 3: then the third thing that thing is accomplishing is this
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 3: movie is not fucking around.
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 3: No one, no one is safe. We're going to kill
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 3: a kid in the first 10 goddamn minutes.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: Because what it is, is it shows you a trolley problem.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: And it's like, do you... The kid warns them and
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: all the guys die? Or a kid dies. And then
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: one choice of the trolley problem is made. And then
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: the trolley jumps over onto the other fucking track too.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: And it's like, we're getting both of them. You get
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: a dead kid and all these guys are fucked. You
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: don't get anything, motherfucker.
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: Tama... says about the cop raid about that. He says
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: that this is just like any other gang that's come
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 2: at us before. And the dead kid moment is where
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 2: you're like, Oh, this movie is not pro cop. Like
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 2: in any way, these, these SWAT guys are not the
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: good guys just because they're the ones, you know, in
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: the uniforms. That's the moment where you're like, okay, yeah, no,
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: this is, this, this is gang warfare. This is not
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: the cops. And to that end, I want to give
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: a little shout out to, I think we called these
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: red shirts, the good guys cannon fodder. It's quote unquote
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 2: good guys. The two guys who are driving the SWAT
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: vehicle who are just having a conversation about what I
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 2: assume is cricket or soccer or something. And they're just
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: sitting there just talking about game last night and this
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: is bullshit and they just get mowed down and.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 3: Then there's the the beauty of that scene for lack
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 3: of a better word is the one guy just takes
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 3: it in the head like this one like almost sniper
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 3: shot and then the guy the other guys start walking
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 3: up and then they just unload on the one guy left.
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah and i'm like dude you're just being mean now
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 2: It's just one guy sitting in a truck and three
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: machine guns come at him.
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: Can I do, I just wanted one other shout out
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: to an absolutely phenomenal kill, which is the guy who
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: is in his apartment and he sees Rama out through
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 1: his keel and he's like breathing heavy and he's getting
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: himself really like psyched up. And he's like loading the
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: one bullet into the gun. And he's like, this is
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: my big moment. And then immediately gets the gun turned
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: on himself and gets thrown. Just such like a great,
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: like little story. Like you understand everything about this guy.
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 3: And I think that's what sets the, the rate apart
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 3: from honestly, most action films, certainly violent night is like,
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 3: like you said, there are these little stories, like a
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 3: really good action sequence. You can pull out of a
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 3: movie and it is telling a beginning, middle and end.
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 3: And I think you're absolutely right about the snipers. There's this,
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 3: this little tiny story. that you get that it's like
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 3: a short film, like literally a two minute short film.
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 3: That is just, you can pull that out and have
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 3: that show that as a short film at a festival
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 3: and be like, wow, that was really compelling.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: I gotta say, I feel like the only way that
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 2: we could have been fair to Violent Knight is if
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: we had just talked about Violent Knight first in each round.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 2: Now we gotta go to Violent Knight, which has some
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 2: fun kills.
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, so here's the thing about the Violent Knight kills
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 3: that I thought about as.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 1: I watched the movie.
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 2: We're moving to Violent Knight.
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, if.
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 3: You're cool with that. What Violent Knight has, it has
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 3: some good kills. What it really has is good weapons.
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 3: The candy cane is a really innovative weapon. The skates.
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 3: That's a really great weapon. And it produces some cool kills,
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 3: but it's not so much– what's cool about the kill
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 3: isn't the kill. It's the weapon, right? So the candy cane,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 3: the ice skate.
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: We just said that about the raid though, that there's
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: not characters. There's weapons. We did say that like.
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 3: I mean as a shooting style, but I think here
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 3: what it is is more like– so I'll give you
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 3: an exception to kind of show the difference.
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 3: The star kill, which is one of my favorite. That
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 3: one is a combination of, this is a cool weapon,
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 3: but it's done in a really clever way. Right. Right.
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 3: Whereas with the others, it's sort of like you see
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 3: him chewing on and how we choose a candy cane
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 3: down to like an ice pick level of.
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: Like, whatever.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: Whatever.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 3: That's like a really weird job joke, but you see
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 3: it first. And then the, the blade, this ice skates, he's,
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 3: he's showing him to you. And then he's using like,
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 3: all of that is sort of like, okay, but the
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 3: star is, it feels more like, oh, you're being really clever.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 3: Set it up and blah, blah, blah. You know?
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 2: So this is, this is where I think violent night
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 2: does have an advantage. Is that because again, because it's
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 2: a Christmas movie and they're trying to get as many
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 2: Christmasy elements in there. It is to your point, Dave,
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: a slasher film. Like if I made a, a Santa
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 2: Claus is coming to town.
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: Like, and we, there's.
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 2: Been a million of those like evil Santa kind of things. Like,
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: How would I use the accoutrement, the symbolisms of Christmas,
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: or whatever, to kill somebody? And so we do get that.
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 2: We get somebody who is impaled on an icicle. First
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 2: a fake decorative icicle, and then a real icicle. There's
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 2: a dumb bit where someone says, oh Jesus, and then
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 2: gets hit with a fucking... Jesus gets hit with a
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: baby Jesus. And you're right. So we get a lot
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: of those elements there. My favorite is, and one of
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: my issues is that my favorite kill happens so early
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: on is Frosty who gets, you know, hit with darts
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: and the stocking full of billiard balls and all the
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 2: little like environmental weapons that we can find. I love,
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: I love a good environmental.
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 3: Oh God.
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 2: I love a good kitchen fight, dude. And in this one,
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 2: Frosty gets the shit kicked out of him, culminating in him,
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 2: getting stabbed through the eye with a like tree topper star,
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 2: but he's still kicking. He's still going around and he's
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: going to fuck up Santa who plugs the star in
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: and then electrocutes this man through the brain, which is,
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 2: and if that's not bad enough, then his headlights on
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 2: fire and they keep the scene going. He gets like
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 2: on the walkie talkie and starts talking to somebody with
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 2: the head on fire in the foreground, cooking and changing
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 2: colors the entire time. It's so mean. I love that.
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it is.
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 3: It is fantastic. And, and the fact that he gets
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 3: to revisit it and awkwardly try to explain what happened
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 3: to the bad guy later. It's like, Oh yeah, that
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 3: was frosty. Yeah, I stabbed him in the eye with
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 3: a thing and then his head caught on fire. It
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 3: was complicated.
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 1: I want to go through just rapid fire all of
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 1: the the kills in the barn fight because.
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 1: Can we do that real fast? Yeah, sure. Yeah. All right.
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: So rapid fire. hammer to the knee, explodes the knee,
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 1: and then the head, gored with a sleigh, accidentally shoots
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 1: self in foot, and then takes a candy cane to
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: the face, stabbed in the throat with a candy cane,
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 1: ice skate brass knuckles, one of whom is punched into
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 1: some wood, and then the body slowly slides back.
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, the decapitation is pretty dope.
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 2: I love that decapitation.
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 1: Tied with a rope and then the other rope is
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 1: thrown into an active snowblower which then slowly drags him
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 1: in and then while running away hammer throw knocked down
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 1: tries to use a grenade and then the grenade is
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 1: thrown into his clothes finally shot in the balls.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 3: Now so a couple things about that one of the
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 3: grenade the response to that is the best line in
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 3: the movie which is Ho, ho, holy shit. Which I
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 3: think he should have saved for the final kill in
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 3: the chimney.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 3: Because I think it is the best, you know, response line.
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 3: And then the other thing is the, I don't know
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 3: if you had this in there, but like, there's one
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 3: where he kind of does a Count Dooku like assassination thing.
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 3: two ice skates at a time for a throat slip.
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 3: That's actually pretty cool.
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 2: How many Count Dooku references we at in this episode now? Three?
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 3: Two. Two, but with that attitude, not anymore, Marty. I
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 3: think we could go further.
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: I would say with Dave on the podcast, we were
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 1: behind schedule.
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 2: I would say the grenade bit, the grenade in the
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 2: clothes also gives me, I think my favorite line of
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 2: the movie where Santa is running away from the scene.
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 2: And it's a parody of the cool guys don't look
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: at explosions because he stops. He says out loud to nobody.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 2: He says out loud to no one. He's like, oh,
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 2: I got to look. He turns around and watches the
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 2: guy blow up. He's so satisfied with himself.
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 3: David Harbour makes this goddamn movie. Like, I don't even
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 3: know how many ways to say that.
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 2: And go through the heavies. I like, you know, Krampus
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 2: gets the shit kicked out of him by the family,
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: by the shitty 12 year old and eventually is stabbed
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 2: in through the throat with the fire pokers. I like that.
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 2: I like that whole sequence a little bit. Oh, one
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: thing I want to clarify here, Dan. I'm going to
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 2: set precedent here because we need to set precedent for
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 2: Guardians of the Galaxy. Needle drops count. Needle drops count for,
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: for choreography. So when, so when, when they start the
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 2: frosty fight and we get, it is suddenly hit to.
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 2: Mamacita Like that And then the whole Shed scene is
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: Is that fucking Jon Bon Jovi Or somebody That terrible
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: This song sucks but it's this treacly Song like I'm
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 2: gonna bow Christmas time And it's so Bad that I
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 2: really enjoy The violence said to it So I'm setting
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 2: the bar here We are giving points for picking the
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: cool music, the needle drop.
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 1: Can I get philosophical on that topic for a bit,
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 1: which is I think a lot of action movie stars
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 1: have a background in dance because there is the connection
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: between like what is like martial arts, but sort of
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: a dance scene, but you're moving.
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 2: Are hitting sure yeah john wick really explored that.
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah and i think like when you are when you
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 1: have the scene where the main character is beating the
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 1: shit out of a bunch of guys it is essentially
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 1: like an extended musical number right so when you bring
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: specific music into it you are sort of adding to
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 1: that element like goons are background dancers, basically, especially in
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: one of the like, fuck a bunch of guys up scenes.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 1: So I think the needle drop and the music that
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 1: is playing is a crucial part of something like that.
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 1: So needle drop 110%.
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 2: And I've seen it done poorly a bunch of times.
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 2: Like it goes in waves, but like right after guardians
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 2: of galaxy hit and that movie has such intentional use
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 2: of needle drops, then every kind of like action or
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 2: sci-fi movie that came out, It was like, what kind
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: of pop culture, pop-y thing can we drag out from
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: the 70s? And you can tell. You can always tell
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 2: when a movie is made knowing what song they're going
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 2: to use. And when a movie is made with no
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: clue what song they're going to get clearance for later on.
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 2: I think the shed scene is the latter, but I
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 2: think what they wound up with works. But Donde Esta
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 2: Santa Claus was definitely chosen ahead of time. All right,
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 2: we got to talk about The Home Alone.
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 3: So this is actually my favorite kill. Well, it's a
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 3: prelude to a kill, which is, I think it's Gingerbread.
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 3: Is he the sort of Dutch dude?
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 3: So he's like, hey, kid, if you're going to do
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 3: Home Alone, you got to fucking hide your shit. And then,
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 3: of course, he doesn't see that the ladder's been sawed.
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 3: And so he sees the nail, avoids it, but then
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 3: steps on the thing and then the nail goes through
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 3: his chin.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 3: And there is the violation of the mouth, like just
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 3: as a horror thing, it's always kind of cringy, like
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 3: the violation of the eye. But then the fact that
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 3: I didn't see it coming... I knew something was going
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 3: to happen, but that... Again, it's like, oh shit, I
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 3: forgot there was a doorframe there. Oh, that just looks
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 3: so uncomfortable. And in a way, kills where you don't
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 3: actually get killed, you just live and it's horrible are
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 3: kind of worse.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 3: And the rest of that isn't as cool. There's some
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 3: clever bits, but that one where it's just like, oh God,
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 3: that is so... mean and also you didn't get two
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 3: seconds before you had to eat crow yeah.
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 2: So that that hit for me this whole sequence is
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 2: playing off of that the wet bandits should be dead
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: right yes yeah like kevin has killed those those guys
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 2: a thousand times over and the thing is the thing
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 2: is verisimilitude verisimilitude matters verisimilitude is what means that you
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 2: can have a movie with a like magical action Viking Santa,
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 2: as long as the movie plays by its own rules, right?
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 2: The whole time. So in home alone, it doesn't matter
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 2: that these guys are able to withstand electrocution and having
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 2: being lit on fire or whatever, like, because the movie
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 2: is playing by its own rules. It's not the rules
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: of my world. So this is why I have a
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 2: problem with this scene, right? Oh, is that number one,
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 2: that little girl does kill these people. like straight up
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: does fucking murder them. And gingerbread had got no problem
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: with the guts to nail to the jaw. You know,
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 2: the bowling ball drops on him. He's a surprisingly, you know, fit, right.
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 2: He's surprisingly like holding up to it. And then he,
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 2: you know, gets a, finally a nail with the bowling
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: ball candy cane, right. Who takes the bowling ball to
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 2: the face and to the groin and to the knee.
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: She gets glued to the floor. Her scalp is pulled off.
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 2: Wakes her walk in broken glass. So not only does
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 2: this child kill these people, but she tortures them. But
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 2: to save us, to save us from this child knowing
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 2: she's killed somebody, so she still gets to do the,
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 2: hee hee.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: Hee, this is fun, I'm giggly!
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 2: Like, what the fuck? How old is this kid supposed
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 2: to be, by the way? Is she six? Is she nine?
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 2: Is she eleven? Oh my god, I hate this fucking kid.
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 2: To save us from that. To save us from her
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 2: seeing the horrors of what she's done.
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 3: She.
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 2: shoots this woman in the face with, I went and looked,
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 2: that's at least a 35-pound barbell. A 35-pound barbell hits
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 2: this woman in the face from close range at a
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 2: fast velocity, and we've seen everybody else in this movie
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 2: get murked pretty realistically. That should take that woman's fucking
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 2: head off. That little girl should be covered in blood
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 2: like the baby in Hard Boiled. But because of this
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 2: little girl who I hated, still needs to be able
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 2: to say all the fun, like, treacly. That's my word
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 2: for this episode, I guess. All the fun, like, sweet.
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 2: Ah ha ha, I'm having fun. I'm going to sing
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 2: Jingle Bells in this situation. No, that doesn't happen, and
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 2: she gets saved by Santa. No! This girl is a murderer?
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 2: She has a body count just like Santa Claus does,
• 2:32:36
  Speaker 2: and she should have to live with it. The reality
• 2:32:39
  Speaker 2: of what she's done.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 1: I would argue.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 2: The movie breaks its rules at that point for this scene.
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 1: She's gonna get older and be like, wait, what happened
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: to gingerbread? Like, I was hitting them with bowling balls.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 1: I think she's gonna get older and be like, oh
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 1: my god, like.
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 3: I have a very different take on all this. So
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 3: first off, she doesn't kill anybody. The bowling ball that
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 3: hits that guy comes from Candy Cane, not from her.
• 2:33:03
  Speaker 3: It only hits him because she stumbles over it. Yeah.
• 2:33:07
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 3: And then, and yeah, you can argue that she should
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 3: have died from the thing. But again, it's Santa who
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 3: kills her. But none of that mattered. Let me tell
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 3: you why none of that mattered. My take on her
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 3: is she is already a little fucking psychopath. She sets
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 3: those things up. knowing it could kill them yeah and
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 3: she has no problem with it i think she's a
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 3: fucking psycho i think she is that little girl at
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 3: the end of battle royale with a smile on her
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 3: face and blood all over her face and just the
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 3: fact that that uh david harbour thinks he's rescuing her
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 3: from that by saying turn away while i shoot this
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 3: person david harbour has no idea this girl has Zero
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 3: problem with murder.
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 2: The movie establishes in the first scene that she just
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 2: watched Home Alone for the first time, like, the night before.
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 2: And she is pretending to be Kevin. The first thing
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 2: she does is does the Kevin scream. So, Kevin McAllister
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 2: unlocked it in her.
• 2:34:06
  Speaker 1: It was always late.
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, and Kevin McAllister is a fucking psycho. Let us
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 3: not forget, whatever rules that movie plays by, he is
• 2:34:14
  Speaker 3: perfectly okay with it. Setting up at least extremely harmful,
• 2:34:18
  Speaker 3: if not deadly, booby traps. To be fair, in self-defense,
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 3: as she is doing, because they will fucking kill her.
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 2: They are going to kill her.
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 3: So she is at the very least okay with murder
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 3: in self-defense, if not outright murder.
• 2:34:33
  Speaker 1: To borrow a line from Cowboy Bebop, there is nothing
• 2:34:36
  Speaker 1: crueler than a child. I don't think she's especially a
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 1: little psycho. I think all kids are kind of little psychos.
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 1: And yeah, she is like, I'm going to put nails
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 1: on the floor. There is a sort of a, you
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 1: don't understand the concept of human cruelty on a certain
• 2:34:54
  Speaker 1: level at this point. So I think my stance is, Yeah,
• 2:34:58
  Speaker 1: she kills those people. And yeah, it's awesome.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes, there is always a moment to get
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 2: to our other. There is always an Opie killing the bird,
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 2: you know, point in a kid's life because kids don't
• 2:35:10
  Speaker 2: know what limits are. They don't know what causes pain
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 2: until they cause pain. Every kid has to do that
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 2: at some point. In order to learn not to do that.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 1: I do. I do just want to say, though, I
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 1: think we're overlooking is how insane is it that this
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 1: is the first movie to do Home Alone, but they
• 2:35:27
  Speaker 1: actually fucking die? How is it insane is that we
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 1: had to wait until 2022 to get this fucking movie
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 1: like and even it's not even the whole fucking movie.
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 2: And I feel like it can't be the first, but
• 2:35:39
  Speaker 2: it may be the most notable, maybe the first good one. Yes, absolutely.
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some bullshit out there that probably does this.
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say that these are the best kills
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 1: in the movie. But they are, I feel like, the
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 1: movie really chugging along. Because it is... One, this is
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 1: the point where Gingerbread and Candy Cane's performances are really
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 1: locked in. And Candy Cane in particular is doing a
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 1: pretty good peshy.
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 1: It's giving you such... just, just what you want. You
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: just want to see a fucking home alone, but they're
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 1: actually taking nails to the back and it's bloody and gnarly.
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 1: And it just is like, here you go.
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 3: It's, it's just, and again, it's that failure to commit
• 2:36:25
  Speaker 3: to the bit, right? Like if she had, in fact,
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 3: not tangentially in a, uh, accomplice way, right. Or depraved indifference.
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 3: Like if I was actually bringing charges up against this kid, Right.
• 2:36:40
  Speaker 3: I couldn't really necessarily get away with, you know, it
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 3: would probably be more like man one.
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 3: Just because she didn't. But if it went all out
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 3: and was like, no, she straight up fucking killed him.
• 2:36:51
  Speaker 3: Like Santa didn't even show up. She just fucking killed him.
• 2:36:54
  Speaker 3: And Santa shows up and they're these dead bodies. That
• 2:36:58
  Speaker 3: is your fucking home alone.
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 2: That's a commitment.
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 3: And you get past all the treacly deaths. Right. It's like, oh, no,
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 3: she may seem treacly. But she is the bad seed.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, and then he pulls out his little magical, like,
• 2:37:10
  Speaker 2: tablet scroll, and she's on the naughty list for life now? Oh,
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 2: come on!
• 2:37:16
  Speaker 1: Right? Right?
• 2:37:16
  Speaker 2: Come on!
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 3: There's your fucking movie. But again, it's trying to, like,
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 3: have its cake. I don't even know what it's trying
• 2:37:22
  Speaker 3: to do, but it's not committing. It's not committing in
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 3: a way where you really don't like it that's what
• 2:37:25
  Speaker 3: would take it from good to great if it's just
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 3: sort of like oh no yeah we are picking.
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 1: A lane i think this is the lane and some people.
• 2:37:31
  Speaker 3: Are gonna love it and some people get it but
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 3: this is the fucking lane.
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah i'm gonna do like my my real what i'm
• 2:37:38
  Speaker 1: giving to this movie about the kills yes every single
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 1: kill is something like there is not there is one
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 1: guy whose death is just gets hit with hammer and
• 2:37:48
  Speaker 1: Everybody else dies in like if I'm going down the
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 1: list like Frosty does get the star to the face,
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 1: but it is a long list of how he gets
• 2:37:58
  Speaker 1: there because he gets nailed with billiard balls. He gets
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 1: suplexed into a pinball machine. Santa stabs him with a
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 1: bunch of fucking darts and then he gets stabbed into
• 2:38:07
  Speaker 1: the eye and then it gets plugged.
• 2:38:09
  Speaker 2: My favorite thing about the darts is he throws the
• 2:38:12
  Speaker 2: darts at him and that's bad enough. So this guy's
• 2:38:14
  Speaker 2: now gotten speared with like darts in his leg and his,
• 2:38:17
  Speaker 2: his chest and everything. But then during the fight, Santa
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 2: goes boom, boom, boom. And like a palm punches and
• 2:38:25
  Speaker 2: nails those darts further into him, which is so good.
• 2:38:30
  Speaker 2: It's so fucked like extra. Yeah, I love that.
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 1: Are we are we feeling ready to vote? Yeah, I
• 2:38:36
  Speaker 1: am actually on the basis of every single kill is
• 2:38:40
  Speaker 1: unique and inventive. I'm going to give this one to
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 1: Violet Knight. I'm I think I'm actually going to fucking
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say I I think this is where
• 2:38:51
  Speaker 1: it excels. The fucking snowblower kill, dude.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 2: OK, yeah, I this is hard.
• 2:38:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:38:58
  Speaker 2: This is a hard one. It's really close. I don't
• 2:39:01
  Speaker 2: even blame Dan for that choice. I was debating the
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 2: same choice myself. I'm gonna say that this does kind of,
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 2: and it is, like, it is inventive, it is creative,
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 2: it is a lot of that, as Dave was saying, slashery,
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 2: Final Destination way. If we made Final Destination Christmas, what
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 2: are the fun ways we can get somebody to die
• 2:39:21
  Speaker 2: with Christmas accoutrement? I think this one is gonna be
• 2:39:25
  Speaker 2: a victim of seeding. I think that, like, It's better
• 2:39:27
  Speaker 2: than a lot of other movies on this list, but
• 2:39:31
  Speaker 2: if we're talking choreography, sheer volume of interesting kills, and
• 2:39:36
  Speaker 2: just technical work all around, it's The Raid. I gotta
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 2: give this one to The Raid. If that makes you
• 2:39:43
  Speaker 2: our tiebreaker.
• 2:39:44
  Speaker 3: So, as with The Goons, I feel like the violent
• 2:39:49
  Speaker 3: night kills work better on paper than they do in executions.
• 2:39:53
  Speaker 3: And the difference between the violent night kills and the
• 2:39:56
  Speaker 3: raid kills is I feel the raid kills. I fucking
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 3: feel them. And even when you're being silly, if you
• 2:40:04
  Speaker 3: don't feel it, you know what I mean? I think
• 2:40:08
  Speaker 3: there are silly kills where you still kind of feel it.
• 2:40:11
  Speaker 3: And there's an inventiveness to them. And like I said,
• 2:40:14
  Speaker 3: I think that if all of those other kills had
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 3: been like the star kill, where it's like we are being...
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 3: very clever and very fun and in a way you
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 3: kind of feel the star kill more than you feel
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 3: a lot of these other ones I think that's part
• 2:40:27
  Speaker 3: of the reason I liked the nail through the whatever
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 3: kills like oh I felt that I might have been
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 3: more willing to give it to Val and I but
• 2:40:32
  Speaker 3: like I said I think it's the idea of killing
• 2:40:34
  Speaker 3: someone with a candy cane the idea of killing someone
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 3: And to be honest, the snowblower, I was also like, yeah,
• 2:40:39
  Speaker 3: Fargo did it better.
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 1: It's a wood chipper, guys.
• 2:40:41
  Speaker 2: I gotta say, you guys keep saying it's a wood chipper.
• 2:40:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought that was a snowblower.
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 3: I thought it was a snowblower, too, because of the
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 3: way the panels were going.
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe I'm wrong.
• 2:40:50
  Speaker 1: No, you are wrong. It is a snowblower.
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 3: Either way, I kind of feel like Fargo did it better. Regardless,
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 3: even though the kills are less elaborate in the raid...
• 2:41:02
  Speaker 3: I feel them more. And they're fast. They're executed better.
• 2:41:05
  Speaker 3: And they come out of nowhere, right? They're like, and
• 2:41:08
  Speaker 3: you don't know. It's an execution issue, I think, more
• 2:41:11
  Speaker 3: than anything else that I'm going to give it to
• 2:41:14
  Speaker 3: the raid just because. And that door thing that just
• 2:41:21
  Speaker 3: slid on the door thing is so burned in my
• 2:41:24
  Speaker 3: brain more than anything in Violent Nightmare. I gotta be honest.
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 2: What I've learned, though, real quick, I don't know what
• 2:41:32
  Speaker 2: a snowblower is. Yeah. I just looked that up, and yeah,
• 2:41:36
  Speaker 2: you guys are totally right. It's a snowblower, which makes
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 2: more sense than a woodchipper.
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 1: You're a city boy. You don't know.
• 2:41:43
  Speaker 2: I come from the... I'm a mountain folk. I'm a
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 2: valley guy. I'm a valley person.
• 2:41:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:41:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know what a snowblower is. I think I
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 2: was thinking of just like a really high-powered leaf blower. Anyway....
• 2:41:55
  Speaker 3: If you can find a way to kill a guy
• 2:41:56
  Speaker 3: with a leaf blower, I'm going to give it to
• 2:41:58
  Speaker 3: Violent Knight. If they had a good leaf blower kill,
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 3: then I'd be like, you know what, Violent Knight? You
• 2:42:03
  Speaker 3: figured it out.
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 1: I think there is a leaf blower kill in Machete. Oh, wow.
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 3: I need to go back and watch the show again. Yeah.
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 2: What you got to do is you got to shove
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 2: it in the guy's mouth and turn.
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go.
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 2: Okay. So that goes to the raid, which means that
• 2:42:20
  Speaker 2: the raid just won the match.
• 2:42:24
  Speaker 3: Yes the raid just won the match but for fun
• 2:42:26
  Speaker 3: i can give you a vote on the last.
• 2:42:27
  Speaker 1: One oh we're still gonna do it oh no we're
• 2:42:29
  Speaker 1: still doing the fun we're seeing if so that's two
• 2:42:32
  Speaker 1: for the raid we're gonna see if violent knight can
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 1: pull can pull one off or if this is a
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 1: shutout so round three death acting this time let's give
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 1: violent knight a little bit of an advantage how we
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 1: how about we start with violent to give him a
• 2:42:47
  Speaker 1: shot what do we think about death performances in violent
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 1: night boys They're pretty good.
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, I got to say, especially when they get
• 2:42:56
  Speaker 3: drawn out. So like I said, going back to the
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 3: nail through the chin, that's really well acted. I think
• 2:43:01
  Speaker 3: her increasing frustration as she is slowly ripped apart by
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 3: this child, pretty good acting. The star kill, pretty good acting.
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 3: And like I said, those work better, I think, because
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 3: we're building up to it. Whereas in The Shed, it's
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 3: just real quick.
• 2:43:16
  Speaker 1: It's like.
• 2:43:17
  Speaker 3: And you're down. It's like it's shanked. There's not a
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 3: lot of death acting to do with that.
• 2:43:20
  Speaker 2: Some of them make a fun face.
• 2:43:21
  Speaker 3: The screams as he's going into the, I almost said
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 3: witch shepherd, the screams as he's going into the snowboard,
• 2:43:26
  Speaker 3: pretty damn good. Yeah. And then the, my balls, you
• 2:43:30
  Speaker 3: shot me in my balls. Like he actually screams about that.
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 3: That's pretty good.
• 2:43:37
  Speaker 2: I do like that he's, like, writhing while he gets shot.
• 2:43:40
  Speaker 2: And then he gets shot again in the head just for, like,
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 2: extra good measure, just to make sure. Yeah, I mean,
• 2:43:44
  Speaker 2: it's fine.
• 2:43:45
  Speaker 1: It's fun.
• 2:43:45
  Speaker 2: I get what I need out of this.
• 2:43:48
  Speaker 1: You know, okay, I want to say two things. One,
• 2:43:51
  Speaker 1: Frosty's death is some of the worst death acting I
• 2:43:53
  Speaker 1: think has ever been seen in a movie. He has
• 2:43:57
  Speaker 1: a star. I mean, he's trying to act, I have
• 2:43:59
  Speaker 1: a flaming star on my face. He is eating shit
• 2:44:01
  Speaker 1: at it.
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 2: How is one supposed to do that, maestro?
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not an acting coach. I just
• 2:44:09
  Speaker 1: know better than that.
• 2:44:11
  Speaker 3: He did not convince you. He did not.
• 2:44:14
  Speaker 1: I was not convinced that this guy was dying, let
• 2:44:16
  Speaker 1: alone from having a star in his face.
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 2: I can still see him breathing.
• 2:44:22
  Speaker 1: I will say the flip side, the fucking response team
• 2:44:25
  Speaker 1: getting killed in that barn, I think is some top
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 1: tier masterclass action. Nameless guy getting killed acting. All those
• 2:44:35
  Speaker 1: dudes are leaving it on the fucking mat, especially because
• 2:44:38
  Speaker 1: they are all selling, I am getting killed in a
• 2:44:41
  Speaker 1: super weird way. They are all selling, and I'm like, what, what?
• 2:44:49
  Speaker 1: There is a mixture of surprise, and pain that they
• 2:44:53
  Speaker 1: are all selling when they get punched with a, with
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 1: an ice skate. I think those dudes are putting on
• 2:44:58
  Speaker 1: a fucking masterclass while the named characters are kind of
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 1: doing like, eh, not the best, not the worst, but
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 1: those dudes are, are leaving it all on the fucking mat.
• 2:45:09
  Speaker 1: Like the guy that gets a hammer to the back
• 2:45:12
  Speaker 1: and then a grenade put in his pants, that dude's
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 1: doing great. That's a great fucking performance. I do believe
• 2:45:20
  Speaker 1: that that is what a man who has a grenade
• 2:45:21
  Speaker 1: in his pants would do. Yes!
• 2:45:23
  Speaker 2: Just fumble around for a little bit, flop on the floor,
• 2:45:26
  Speaker 2: and then explode.
• 2:45:27
  Speaker 3: You realize that gag has been done so many times
• 2:45:29
  Speaker 3: it could have its own bracket.
• 2:45:31
  Speaker 1: It could!
• 2:45:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm telling you right now, Raising Arizona is first seed.
• 2:45:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, shit. Yeah. It's true.
• 2:45:38
  Speaker 1: So many brackets! One lifetime!
• 2:45:43
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing, though, right? To Dave's point, I have
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 2: seen people act out grenade in the pants before. I've
• 2:45:52
  Speaker 2: seen people where I'm holding an explosive device. Never seen
• 2:45:56
  Speaker 2: a guy act out I have a fluorescent bulb in
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 2: my neck and I'm still fighting before. Never seen that one.
• 2:46:03
  Speaker 3: And fighting well, by the way, it still takes both
• 2:46:07
  Speaker 3: of them to take him down post thing in his neck.
• 2:46:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to see it again until I
• 2:46:12
  Speaker 2: watch Before He Kills World, which I forgot immediately about.
• 2:46:16
  Speaker 2: I saw that movie and forgot about it immediately.
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 3: It's not great, but it has some good fight scenes. Yeah.
• 2:46:21
  Speaker 1: Mad Dog actor, Ya-Yan Ruin, his death performance is carrying
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 1: this category, I would say, for it. Because he really, again,
• 2:46:30
  Speaker 1: it's back to the thing of, Wait, he's still not
• 2:46:32
  Speaker 1: fucking dying because he takes a fluorescent bulb to the throat, continues,
• 2:46:37
  Speaker 1: and only occasionally is like, ah, fuck, like, like loses
• 2:46:41
  Speaker 1: momentum for a sec. Be like, wait, shit, blood loss,
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 1: blood loss. I'm back. I'm back to kicking both your asses.
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 1: And then his performance, as gnarly as it is, a
• 2:46:50
  Speaker 1: fluorescent light bulb is slowly dragged across his throat where
• 2:46:55
  Speaker 1: he's like gurgling blood from his mouth and seizing up.
• 2:46:58
  Speaker 1: His fucking heavy yeah like.
• 2:47:02
  Speaker 3: The other thing you've got going for you is quantity
• 2:47:05
  Speaker 3: because one of the other things that happens in the
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 3: raid is people don't die right away there are so
• 2:47:10
  Speaker 3: many scenes of just a hallway full of bodies and.
• 2:47:13
  Speaker 4: Half of them are like oh yeah and like that
• 2:47:17
  Speaker 4: is some good fucking dying acting because like you know
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 4: they're not gonna make it yeah it's just it's gonna
• 2:47:24
  Speaker 4: take a little longer we.
• 2:47:26
  Speaker 1: Really early on had to sort because you if you
• 2:47:29
  Speaker 1: spend all the time sorting like is this person dead
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 1: or just severely fucked up we had to basically say
• 2:47:38
  Speaker 1: They don't necessarily have to die, but they might as
• 2:47:40
  Speaker 1: well be dead. And a lot of these guys are-
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 1: Dead is a state of mind.
• 2:47:45
  Speaker 3: And unlike Dread, where emergency services eventually arrives, they will
• 2:47:51
  Speaker 3: never show up at this place.
• 2:47:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:47:54
  Speaker 3: Unless you have on-site medical attention immediately, it's just a
• 2:47:58
  Speaker 3: matter of time. Right.
• 2:48:00
  Speaker 1: In the raid the dead are the lucky ones right
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 1: like you're lucky if you die fast yeah yes i'm
• 2:48:06
  Speaker 1: also gonna say we we briefly chat about and mostly
• 2:48:09
  Speaker 1: talk shit machete gang number one as he is credited
• 2:48:12
  Speaker 1: on imdb gets dive tackled out a window used as
• 2:48:17
  Speaker 1: a cushion when rama lands on the fire escape and
• 2:48:21
  Speaker 1: then does not just quickly die but you watch him
• 2:48:23
  Speaker 1: like have a seizure like he is like like shaking.
• 2:48:28
  Speaker 1: And I think like stuff's coming out of his mouth.
• 2:48:30
  Speaker 1: Fuck that dude is selling it. That is, that is
• 2:48:33
  Speaker 1: some great fucking death acting. All right.
• 2:48:36
  Speaker 2: I started off the votes in this round and Dan
• 2:48:38
  Speaker 2: told me not to do this, but I'm going to
• 2:48:40
  Speaker 2: do it anyway, just so it's not a complete shutout. Gentlemen's,
• 2:48:44
  Speaker 2: you know, what.
• 2:48:46
  Speaker 3: Is a gentleman's vote? What is that even?
• 2:48:48
  Speaker 1: He keeps doing this.
• 2:48:49
  Speaker 3: It's not like an 18th century.
• 2:48:51
  Speaker 2: This is a garbage time. Touchdown. For everybody who had
• 2:48:58
  Speaker 2: Violent Knight on their fantasy team for this, I'm going
• 2:49:03
  Speaker 2: to give you a few points on the board. Just
• 2:49:06
  Speaker 2: so it's not a full shutout, just a mercy rule. Yeah, okay.
• 2:49:10
  Speaker 2: Violent Knight gets my vote on this.
• 2:49:12
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 2:49:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, so here's my vote.
• 2:49:15
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm doing.
• 2:49:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, fuck that shit.
• 2:49:17
  Speaker 3: I'm giving it to the raid.
• 2:49:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:49:19
  Speaker 3: I'm perfectly happy with the shutout here.
• 2:49:21
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, Marty, you might want to change your
• 2:49:26
  Speaker 1: fucking ceremony. I'm actually going to give it to Violet Knight.
• 2:49:31
  Speaker 2: Are you serious? I think the response.
• 2:49:34
  Speaker 1: Team's performance is actually good. So do you want to
• 2:49:36
  Speaker 1: actually vote with your fucking heart, Marty? i'm saying violent
• 2:49:40
  Speaker 1: night i think takes it in death acting despite how
• 2:49:43
  Speaker 1: bad of an actor frosty is i think those those
• 2:49:46
  Speaker 1: nameless extras leave it all on the fucking mat.
• 2:49:49
  Speaker 2: Okay you know what i look i was the one
• 2:49:51
  Speaker 2: who said that we needed to organize how we vote
• 2:49:53
  Speaker 2: and choose the order ahead of time so maybe i'm
• 2:49:55
  Speaker 2: just shooting myself in the foot no no i'm a
• 2:49:57
  Speaker 2: man of my word i'm a man of my word
• 2:49:59
  Speaker 2: okay it's undeserved but there you go to vote for
• 2:50:02
  Speaker 2: for violent night.
• 2:50:03
  Speaker 1: I hope you've learned a valuable lesson about throwaway.
• 2:50:06
  Speaker 2: Vote i've learned my lesson.
• 2:50:08
  Speaker 1: Now Violent Knight takes round three.
• 2:50:14
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:50:14
  Speaker 1: I'm very happy with this result because I was genuinely
• 2:50:18
  Speaker 1: stressed about the raid getting knocked out of this fucking bracket.
• 2:50:21
  Speaker 1: And I was going to be like, that can't be
• 2:50:23
  Speaker 1: fucking right. There must be some sort of mistake. I
• 2:50:26
  Speaker 1: was going to be kicking myself.
• 2:50:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Dan, that you have to put in the
• 2:50:30
  Speaker 2: books like an asterisk next to round three of this matchup.
• 2:50:34
  Speaker 3: You realize, though, it now means that the Raid and
• 2:50:37
  Speaker 3: Dread can, in fact, potentially.
• 2:50:40
  Speaker 2: Go up against each other. And because we did it
• 2:50:43
  Speaker 2: so much in this episode, I know how that's going
• 2:50:46
  Speaker 2: to go.
• 2:50:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:50:48
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 2:50:49
  Speaker 1: That. is our second matchup. So, moving on to the
• 2:50:52
  Speaker 1: second round, our Dread and the Raid. Closing thoughts, guys?
• 2:50:57
  Speaker 1: Anything you want to say about our two departed contenders?
• 2:51:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, the departed contenders? I mean, Big Trouble, Little China.
• 2:51:04
  Speaker 3: I'm glad I did this because it gave me a
• 2:51:07
  Speaker 3: chance to revisit that movie and realize how much I
• 2:51:09
  Speaker 3: fucking love it. So that's for Big Trouble. And then
• 2:51:13
  Speaker 3: Violent Night, like I said, Violent Night's a fun movie.
• 2:51:16
  Speaker 3: It's not, it's not In my opinion, it's not ready
• 2:51:19
  Speaker 3: to take on a Raid or even a Dread, frankly.
• 2:51:23
  Speaker 3: But it's a fun movie. And honestly, I'm happy there's
• 2:51:26
  Speaker 3: a sequel. I'm looking forward to it.
• 2:51:28
  Speaker 2: This is one where, like, as I was watching these four,
• 2:51:31
  Speaker 2: I was sitting there just like, man, you almost want to, like,
• 2:51:34
  Speaker 2: redo Leagues. Just do Divisions or whatever. Like, I feel
• 2:51:39
  Speaker 2: like the Raid and three of these movies feel like
• 2:51:42
  Speaker 2: they're in the Big Ten, right? They're Division 1. And
• 2:51:47
  Speaker 2: like Violet Knight feels like the champion of the junior college,
• 2:51:52
  Speaker 2: like the best.
• 2:51:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:51:53
  Speaker 2: It feels like it's just not quite ready for prime
• 2:51:56
  Speaker 2: time when you break it down against these really heavy hitters.
• 2:51:58
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing I was actually going to say
• 2:51:59
  Speaker 3: about Violet Knight. To me, it feels like one of
• 2:52:01
  Speaker 3: those movies that needed more time in the cooker. Yeah.
• 2:52:03
  Speaker 3: Like give me, give me three more drafts of that
• 2:52:06
  Speaker 3: script and we actually have something.
• 2:52:07
  Speaker 2: And look, maybe, maybe next year we'll be like, damn,
• 2:52:10
  Speaker 2: Violet Knight 2 is ready to take on.
• 2:52:13
  Speaker 3: Happens all the time.
• 2:52:13
  Speaker 2: You know, some of our, our big guys, like.
• 2:52:16
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you guys a question. If the family
• 2:52:19
  Speaker 1: that's being taken hostage is likable, how much better is
• 2:52:23
  Speaker 1: this movie? I think if I didn't want the family
• 2:52:26
  Speaker 1: to die, if I thought they were all cool and
• 2:52:29
  Speaker 1: nice and I was happy with them, I think this
• 2:52:31
  Speaker 1: would be a much better movie because I'd actually be
• 2:52:33
  Speaker 1: stressed about the possibility of them coming to harm.
• 2:52:36
  Speaker 3: I honestly don't know because I do know that if
• 2:52:40
  Speaker 3: they were thoroughly... I'll put it this way. If they
• 2:52:45
  Speaker 3: were three-dimensionals, Or two and a half dimensional, at least.
• 2:52:48
  Speaker 3: It would be a more enjoyable movie. Because when I
• 2:52:50
  Speaker 3: think about, like, I don't have the counterexample of home invasion,
• 2:52:53
  Speaker 3: but thriller, but the family's likable. I do have You're
• 2:52:56
  Speaker 3: Next and Ready or Not, where I'm like, oh, these
• 2:53:00
  Speaker 3: are terrible fucking people, but they're entertainingly terrible. So if
• 2:53:03
  Speaker 3: they'd been entertainingly terrible, the movie definitely would have worked better. Basically,
• 2:53:08
  Speaker 3: if everything had been cranked.
• 2:53:09
  Speaker 2: Up, More commitment. I think the movie would have been better.
• 2:53:12
  Speaker 2: We just need more.
• 2:53:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:53:14
  Speaker 3: If they'd have been better. I think you have a
• 2:53:16
  Speaker 3: different movie if they're more likable, though. I think you
• 2:53:18
  Speaker 3: have different conflicts if they're likeable.
• 2:53:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I think what we have here, and I can't
• 2:53:23
  Speaker 1: think of any other examples, is because this is in
• 2:53:25
  Speaker 1: a recent trend of eat the rich movies. Yeah. Which
• 2:53:29
  Speaker 1: just had two come out with Ready or Not 2
• 2:53:31
  Speaker 1: and They Will Kill You. Yeah. This is an eat
• 2:53:34
  Speaker 1: the rich movie where the rich don't get eaten. The
• 2:53:37
  Speaker 1: rich eat. Yeah. Yeah, the rich eat.
• 2:53:40
  Speaker 3: And I think that's maybe part of the problem, right?
• 2:53:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 2:53:44
  Speaker 3: And maybe that's why you're going with if they're likable,
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 3: but it's like, okay, why are they likable? Because it
• 2:53:48
  Speaker 3: is really hard to like rich people right now.
• 2:53:51
  Speaker 1: This is a middle-class family. If this is like.
• 2:53:54
  Speaker 3: Just a normal- Then why am I invading your home?
• 2:53:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:53:58
  Speaker 2: Especially when you're introducing Santa Claus and everything is as
• 2:54:02
  Speaker 2: binary as naughty or nice.
• 2:54:05
  Speaker 1: Well, guess what?
• 2:54:06
  Speaker 2: Everybody here is fucking naughty, right? Yeah. The naughty people
• 2:54:10
  Speaker 2: still win, right? There's one nice kid. This movie also
• 2:54:14
  Speaker 2: doesn't really even affirm, because we get this little monologue
• 2:54:18
  Speaker 2: from Santa at the beginning about just like human greed
• 2:54:21
  Speaker 2: and kids are greedy little shitheads and everything. And I
• 2:54:24
  Speaker 2: don't buy for a second that this little psychopath fixes
• 2:54:27
  Speaker 2: anything for her.
• 2:54:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:54:28
  Speaker 3: I think, I think that's another part of the problem
• 2:54:30
  Speaker 3: is like the central conflict, the central dramatic question, like
• 2:54:32
  Speaker 3: maybe to give it a little too much credit is
• 2:54:34
  Speaker 3: just like, it's not, you're not following through on it.
• 2:54:36
  Speaker 3: And again, like, it's not that you have to be
• 2:54:38
  Speaker 3: like Shakespearean and shit. It's just be what you are.
• 2:54:41
  Speaker 2: Explore your theme. Explore your theme at all.
• 2:54:44
  Speaker 3: Because like, I guess there's a trauma version of this
• 2:54:46
  Speaker 3: movie out there, which is goddamn fantastic.
• 2:54:48
  Speaker 2: And my other thought is this is, This is just
• 2:54:52
  Speaker 2: a general complaint that I have with all Santa is
• 2:54:55
  Speaker 2: real movies, whether it's the Santa Claus or Elf or whatever.
• 2:54:58
  Speaker 2: If Santa is real, who do parents think are giving
• 2:55:03
  Speaker 2: the presents? Why do the parents think that they gave
• 2:55:07
  Speaker 2: this kid presents? Do they not remember? Are these parents
• 2:55:10
  Speaker 2: just like.
• 2:55:11
  Speaker 3: That's a simple glamour spell right there.
• 2:55:13
  Speaker 2: Sure, right.
• 2:55:14
  Speaker 1: Just give me the.
• 2:55:16
  Speaker 2: santa is just is just putting mind control and just
• 2:55:19
  Speaker 2: putting memories of in parents heads of buying these toys
• 2:55:23
  Speaker 2: of course you bought that present yeah sure i do
• 2:55:26
  Speaker 2: like the we don't want to talk about that but
• 2:55:28
  Speaker 2: he has to i.
• 2:55:29
  Speaker 3: Do like that conceit that it's only like he doesn't
• 2:55:32
  Speaker 3: actually have to visit every kid he just has to
• 2:55:33
  Speaker 3: visit the kids who believe in him yeah that that
• 2:55:35
  Speaker 3: logistics go way down on.
• 2:55:37
  Speaker 1: Them right right yeah i think is it like is
• 2:55:43
  Speaker 1: it set up early? I think they kind of, he says,
• 2:55:46
  Speaker 1: I go to the houses of kids who need me.
• 2:55:48
  Speaker 1: Is he going to houses of like kids that are
• 2:55:49
  Speaker 1: too poor to.
• 2:55:51
  Speaker 2: In which case, not this kid.
• 2:55:53
  Speaker 3: I was going to say he would not be at
• 2:55:54
  Speaker 3: that house.
• 2:55:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's like, then why is he visiting this rich
• 2:55:58
  Speaker 2: little brat? Oh, cause her parents are divorced. They're not,
• 2:56:02
  Speaker 2: her parents are splitting up. No, that happens to like
• 2:56:06
  Speaker 2: 50% of all children.
• 2:56:07
  Speaker 1: Like, This is, this is it needing more time.
• 2:56:11
  Speaker 2: Like this is.
• 2:56:12
  Speaker 3: I do like, I do like the element of, I
• 2:56:13
  Speaker 3: don't even know how it works. I like the idea
• 2:56:15
  Speaker 3: that he somehow fell into this.
• 2:56:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:56:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:56:18
  Speaker 3: And now he's got these powers and he's just doing
• 2:56:20
  Speaker 3: his best. Like, I like that. And again, that could
• 2:56:23
  Speaker 3: be really fun to explore, you know?
• 2:56:26
  Speaker 2: I'm even willing to forgive a lot of, like, yeah,
• 2:56:29
  Speaker 2: this is magic, I don't know how it works, because
• 2:56:31
  Speaker 2: David Harbour can sell that, right?
• 2:56:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, totally.
• 2:56:34
  Speaker 2: I love it when.
• 2:56:34
  Speaker 3: David Harbour can sell, I don't know how anything works.
• 2:56:36
  Speaker 3: He is so good at clueless.
• 2:56:38
  Speaker 2: I love it when movies... I usually like it when
• 2:56:42
  Speaker 2: movies are like, I don't know, man, shut up, nerds,
• 2:56:43
  Speaker 2: it's just gonna look cool. But here it's used as
• 2:56:47
  Speaker 2: a crutch, like, a lot, to get the writers out
• 2:56:50
  Speaker 2: of having to explain anything. I still don't know why
• 2:56:52
  Speaker 2: this Viking is Santa Claus. But like, cause he did.
• 2:56:55
  Speaker 3: I mean that, that, that I'm more like, okay, you're,
• 2:56:57
  Speaker 3: you're setting up some, you know, violent night too. I
• 2:57:01
  Speaker 3: hope we make enough money to make a sequel kind
• 2:57:02
  Speaker 3: of shit there.
• 2:57:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:57:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I need that explained in the first,
• 2:57:05
  Speaker 3: but I do, but conceptually I like it.
• 2:57:07
  Speaker 1: I like, I get, I like that. I get to draw.
• 2:57:10
  Speaker 1: the line between a and B there and be like, okay,
• 2:57:12
  Speaker 1: I can, now I can have a little head cannon
• 2:57:14
  Speaker 1: for why this Viking became Santa Claus. I will say,
• 2:57:17
  Speaker 1: in terms of the David Harbour carrying this thing, him
• 2:57:20
  Speaker 1: calling guns gizmos, he does that a couple of times
• 2:57:23
  Speaker 1: and he is really fucking funny. Do you guys know
• 2:57:26
  Speaker 1: how to work these gizmos? He crushes that bit every
• 2:57:30
  Speaker 1: fucking time.
• 2:57:31
  Speaker 2: And, you know, Big Trouble Little China is just great.
• 2:57:34
  Speaker 2: It's just great. It's a masterpiece. That's it.
• 2:57:37
  Speaker 1: I think that'll do it for us. Thank you all
• 2:57:39
  Speaker 1: for listening. Thank you, David Dylan Thomas, for joining us.
• 2:57:42
  Speaker 1: Keep an eye out for White Meat, everybody. And... As always,
• 2:57:47
  Speaker 1: when the earth shakes and the poison arrows fall from
• 2:57:49
  Speaker 1: the sky and the pillars of heaven shake, look at
• 2:57:52
  Speaker 1: that big ol' storm square in the eye and say,
• 2:57:55
  Speaker 1: give me your best shot, pal. I'm listening to a podcast.
• 2:58:08
  Speaker 1: Where is Santa Claus?
• 2:58:10
  Speaker 3: I look for him because it's Christmas Eve.
• 2:58:15
  Speaker 1: I know that I should.
• 2:58:17
  Speaker 3: Be sleeping, but maybe he's not far away.