Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 76: Dr. Nick Barringer PhD, RDN, CSCS, CSSD - TACTICAL / PERFORMANCE

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76: Dr. Nick Barringer PhD, RDN, CSCS, CSSD - TACTICAL / PERFORMANCE · Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof

• Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristen Hicksroof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscapes, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all, I'm super excited today. And I even wrapped on my shirt. If you're watching on YouTube, we have one NIck Barringer: Yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: of my fellow Aggies. We have Nick Beringer. He's the founder of InCartio. NIck Barringer: Yeah yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome to the show, Nick. NIck Barringer: Hey Kristen, thank you so much. It's great to be on the show and obviously extra great to be with a fellow Aggie. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And I should have said Dr. Nick Berenger, by the way. But yes, it's always nice being connected with fellow Aggies. So Nick and I actually were doing our PhD at the same time at AM in completely different labs, completely different research. So it's been a connection that, wow, it's been almost 10 years, which is pretty wild. And we will NIck Barringer: That is that is very well. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: dive all through your story and, you know, really learning, but I want to bring it all the way back from the beginning. Nick, what really inspired you and made you even want to go into the nutrition profession? NIck Barringer: You know, I I'm gonna name a name. there's a professor I had at the University of Georgia, and she probably doesn't even know this if she ever listened to podcast, she'll be like, Amelia Papa Constantinu. What a name. And I remembered it. And you get to think, this is 2000, right? When when I I had to take I had to take my first nutrition class. I was an exercise science major. I was determined to be a strength coach. I was working in the University of Georgia weight room, go dogs, you know, also had my alliances there. And I had to take a nutrition class and it was a night nutrition class at that. So you gotta, you know, think about that. You're half asleep or whatever. And she was just so passionate about nutrition and the way she taught and the information that I left that class and asked my advisor. I remember the time I was like, can you major in this? And you know, shows how much I knew then. And they're like, certainly. So I I switched my major like that week and went nutrition is never looked back. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That is awesome. You know what? I used to teach that class. I used to teach the night intro to nutrition class for non-majors. NIck Barringer: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So I'm very familiar with like you gotta engage them. But you know, I've also done the same thing. I've had students convert from nursing or whatever profession they were in into nutrition because it was like that light bulb went off. And you know, I think with nutrition, a lot of people don't realize that it is a career pathway until you take that class and you ask NIck Barringer: I don't know Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: your advisor. So that is kind of funny. But interesting, like you're really in the sports and performance and nutrition tactical spaces. So you still have that kind of like desire and interest in the sports and performance, but also nutrition. So talk about your journey a little bit. Once you decided to do nutrition, what what have you been doing? NIck Barringer: Yeah, so I mean, once I decided to do nutrition, I was studying that. I was always interested in nutrition because I was not very athletic. So I was always looking for an advantage. So I was, you know, big into the weight room, exercise science, and then obviously what to eat. I did weight class sports like wrestling. and and so that kind of drove me through college. When I was in college, you know, September 11th happened, and and that obviously was a a changing moment. I was I was in ROTC at the time. I decided I was, you know, joining the army. as a career and I I wanted to do nutrition in the army. And why I was so passionate about it is working like Georgia Athletics and that, I saw kind of what high level athletes did for their nutrition and their training. But then I'm doing R O T C and I'm seeing how the Army kind of, you know, for lack of a better word, treats their tactical athletes. And I'm like, we we've got a lot of catching up to do. there's a lot of smart things that these high level performance folks are doing. that we're not doing in the military. And so that kind of became my mission as as I went into the army. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And you know, it really is interesting. Like, so I go back to my undergrad days. There that was really when sports nutrition was even coming a thing. Like I went to U of A in Arizona. They didn't even have sports dietitians on staff. Like that was not a thing. So you're right. It's kind of like you're finally moving that direction. And I want you to really dive into like everything you've done with Army because I think you really have worked to elevate that nutrition side of it, especially being The PhD, the RD, you know, the C C S D, like you kind of have that sport side, but then the n dietician. So tell us about what your career journey has been. What sort of roles have you had before you started your LLC? NIck Barringer: Yes. so you know, starting out in the army, I was a hospital dietitian, like all you you've probably a lot of dietitian listeners. So I, you know, I did all the clinical rotations. I I did a lot of did a lot of weight control. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: A lot of it. NIck Barringer: a lot of it. and then I volunteered and I deployed to Iraq. So I'm gonna date myself, you know. This is going back like two thousand and six for those listening. and and so, you know, I get deployed to Iraq. I'm in a hospital in the middle of Baghdad, even seen it, was Saddam's old hospital. And I'm doing, you know, funny enough, I'm managing one of the things in the army for anybody who serves in the military, you know, you have your specialty, right? Dietician, but you're also you got to be willing to wear other hats, especially as an officer, things you're throwing out. So they had a bunch of Iraqi interpreters for the hospital, because a lot of our patients were Iraqis and you know, a lot of us we didn't speak Arabic. So they needed somebody to manage them. I I manage the Iraqi interpreters. Then the other piece of it was we had a lot of media coming in, like CNN, you know, Laura Logan, like all these big news, news names and folks coming to the to the hospital to see what was going on in the war. And they didn't have anybody to manage the media. I became the media person as well, on top of the nutrition. So I wore a bunch of different hats, but it was awesome and all the things because it it really kind of taught me a lot. so I was doing that, and as I was doing that. a colleague reached out and said, Hey, the 75th Ranger Regiment is standing up a human performance program. They're a special operations unit and they need a dietitian. And the the thing about this unit is you have to go and basically try out. You have to do a bunch of physical tasks, cognitive tasks, you know, meet with the psychologist, do all this. And I'm like, cool, you know, I'm I'm in Iraq right now. Like I gotta. So what was neat, they they sent out some folks to meet with me. They they left. and they're like, hey, we would like for to have you come and try out. So I basically left Iraq, packed up all my things. I was in Fort Hood, Texas, went to Fort Benning and went right into that assessment and selection process and you know, made made my way through it as a dietitian, learned to jump out of a plane, do all that, and joined the 75th Ranger Regiment as kind of one of the first people to st establish what's called the Ranger Athlete Warrior Program. Which was treating those Rangers like the tactical athletes that they are. Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Wow. I mean, that's incredible. And again, it kind of it really brought your passions all together. I think that's one of the things I've really started to learn over and over. Like people start wherever they have to start, right? Like if you want to start in clinical or you want to start in food service or wherever you want to start. But eventually we will all go towards the thing that we actually really do love, right? Like the performance side and the tactical side. So what was it like? I mean, as a dietitian, we're Were you the only dietician in that, in that 75th ranger? And like, how did that play out? Because clearly as tactical athletes, I know you and I know, tactical athletes do not get near the amount of nutrition support and help as they probably need. I think it's moving better in that direction. But what was that like? NIck Barringer: Yeah, it's it's grown tremendously. And what it was like, it was it was awesome. A lot of it was just, I got to be a sponge. Because here's here's one of the things. And if anybody's thinking about going to the army, I'm gonna say the 75th Ranger Regiment's the best unit, you know, and and you can hold that against me. I'm biased, but I think it is. And and here is why is because th they see it as everybody's a ranger. So I had to go through all the training that all those rangers had, you know, go through. I should say had to. I I was I I I got the privilege, right, of going to ranger school, doing all those those things that at the time no dietitian had ever done. And so what that did, it gave me the perspective of those tactical athletes I was about to work with. So I could speak their language. I mean, it would be like working with football players and they're like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna put you through spring practice and put you on the field and play a position. Obviously, you can't do that with every you know sport, but that's essentially what I got to do. So I got to understand, okay, this is this is how it is. This is how it is when they deploy, this is what they're dealing with, these are the type of stressors. And then from that, I could develop a more kind of cohesive nutrition plan that fit their needs and meet them where they're at. And so, you know, I got to work in the dining facility, I got to work with folks, you know, getting ready for deployment, folks on deployment, folks doing other assessment and selections, working on hydration issues, because Fort Benning, Georgia gets very hot and humid. So we had high some hydration issues. So I got to work on that with the refractometer and you know, you know, taught them how to check urine-specific gravity and hydrate based off of that. So we got to do a lot of fun projects there, along with the human performance program standing that up. I got to design a gym, which that's where my CSCS hat came on, because we we hadn't had really a you know, all the quote unquote gems at the time were your your typical kind of you know, MWR, that's morale w and and welfare kind of gyms with your typical bodybuilding stuff. And so we were the first gym to like put turf in it and have guys sprinting up and down and do all that thing. So it it was a lot of fun to kind of be there as that program stood up and it's sits grown tremendously. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I lo I mean, that's my favorite part about any job I've ever had. I'm like, if you just have a checklist, like I am not your candidate. I want to bring innovation, I want to bring ideas, NIck Barringer: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I want to build something new from scratch that no one's ever seen, you know? So I think if you are that type of person, what an awesome opportunity for you. And I also loved how you talked about like there are dietitians in the army and in the military at many different types, right? Like many different types of roles within that. So I mean, my dad's a Air Force, so I always love, you know, showcasing these tactical athletes and those people who serve because there are s there are a lot of roles for dietitians in these in these places. And I think we need more dietitians to help not only those who are out there, you know, front lines, but also their families. I know those those these are things that I've been talking about with people. Like when you think tactical athletes, you gotta think that athlete also eats at home. And what does there you know, you and I were talking before we hit record, like we have families. I mean, when you start to have like kids, that changes how you how you meal prep. Do you even have time to to make these NIck Barringer: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: meals? Like, no matter whether you're like, yeah, I know this is the direction I need to go. So, so when did your PhD come into play? Because I do know the military sent you. So when did that come into play? And what was your PhD on? NIck Barringer: So right after the seventy-fifth Ranger Regiment, I had kind of targeted the Army has a program long-term health education and training, which you get to go to a school of choice. And my my surgeon at the time, who's like the medical guy over the program who I fell under, Dr. Colonel retired Russ Cotewall said, Nick, I will write you a letter of recommendation to any school you want to go to as long as it's Texas AM. And I said, Yes, sir. No. And and then To to be fair, another colleague, Dr. Travis Harvey, hit was working there and was was telling me about his program at Baylor that he had gone through and it was under Dr. Rick Kreider, and Kreider had went to Texas AM as well. So the stars aligned and and pointed me towards Aggie Land. So I, you know, went to Aggie Land, I talked to Dr. Kreider. He was great to work with. I got to work in the exercise sport nutrition lab. and then my work particularly, and this is this is again, I've super debt of gratitude to to Dr. Kreider because what I didn't know going into a lab, which which you can appreciate and anybody out there who who works in one can appreciate is like, yeah, you go in with your research idea, but it's like, what is the funding support? Right. And so he had a lot of funding for all these other projects. And my project didn't have any funding because I wanted to work directly with the military at Fort Hood. But he did support it. He was like, hey, if you can figure out how to do this, do it. I support it. And so I got the mil the army to you know fund the labs and do some of the things. And so I I did a project at the time we were, you know, and sadly still part of the issues is like with suicide. That was a you know a concern of mine. And we looked at omega-3 fatty acid levels, vitamin D levels, and physical fitness is kind of a backdoor to see if and we used the term mood, we didn't use the term depression because a clinical term. There's a bunch of reasons I could go into why. We did that, but it was basically the same test for depression, a PHQ nine. And to see if physical fitness and their nutrition kind of predicted who might be depressed and not, because if you ask a soldier, like if they're depressed, nine times out of ten, they're gonna be like, no, I'm fine, right? That they're not gonna admit it. But if there's these kind of silent markers that we could predict that whether they're, you know, depressed or have a depressed mood or not, maybe we could intervene early. and help prevent some of those issues that we were seeing. And so that was my approach. And and we did the study there at at Fort Hood with First Brigade. And you know, we we had we found some pretty you know promising results and did some following follow-on vitamin D work as well. So that's that's what I did while I was at AM. I did some other studies in the lab as well. But that experience, you were there as well you know, and Adam Kiefer and a a bunch of great people in that lab I I cherished it. I mean, it was three years for for an army officer to get three years to focus on their education is unbelievable. And especially a place like College Station, because I can't imagine going straight from the 75th Ranger Regiment to another university and it being so embracing of the military community as as Texas St. was. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I mean, that that is very true. My dad was also an officer. They sent him to AM to do engineering. So it was it's cool that you're saying that because that has not changed in the 40 plus years. And I think that is a testament to AM. I mean, that is a big part of it, the military culture at AM. I also loved how you talked about like, and I did this same thing. I go in with like all these cool ideas, like this is what I want to research, and they're like. Yeah, this is what you're gonna research. You know what I mean? because NIck Barringer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ultimately it does come down to money. And that doesn't mean you can't still have passionate and and interest in the other research projects that you're do you're doing, right? Like if you're doing an intervention trial, like let's say you were doing something else with Crater, you could layer a PHQ nine on another intervention trial, right? And look at how whatever the dietary intervention might have impacted mood and and health quality. So there are ways that we can kind of you could still have your passion project within the broader project, I'd say. but it it is really funny. I think a lot of people are not blindsided. They just don't understand how the system is. And I think many people who already in PhD programs don't realize that that is the system. So it's cool that you were able to like find your own project and you had support from your PI because that also doesn't have. NIck Barringer: yeah, he he was great. He was very supportive. And I had a lot of fun working on other projects. Like I never would have said there was a a guy, Kyle Levers and Fago Al God, I just forgot Fago's last name, Galvon. you know, they got to work with in the lab there, and they had some other projects I got to help out with and like, you know, tart cherry and muscle soreness. I would have never went, you know, going into my PhD program, I I never thought about that being interesting, but I I found it super fascinating and it was It was some it was a fun study. We did a buy you know, we had individuals I got to use my C S C S because they had to do ten sets of ten on squats. We were trying to get their muscles to be sore and then to look at the late onset muscle soreness. So, you know, I was I was the guy getting a bunch of college kids under the bar and being like, All right, you got another rep, you gotta go, let's go, you know. So it was it was fun. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I just I was I love participating in research studies. I'm probably that anomaly. Me and my kids are in research studies all the time. I got to do my first VO2 max study earlier this NIck Barringer: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: year because I've been reading about it for years and I'm I've never been in exercise lab. I've been in gut microbiome labs, I've been in human education labs, but it was like, to actually understand what you go through, like right? Like the mask, it's so hard to breathe. I'm like, I can't breathe. I can't you can't move side to side, you know. There's There's a lot of layers to research that I think we can bring attention to and appreciation of all the complexities that go into it. So you did your PhD and then what? What sort of roles have you had to ultimately bring you to starting your own LLC? NIck Barringer: Yeah, so w the army, when they when they send you to get your doctorate, they're they're gonna they're gonna get their money's worth out of you, right? And rightfully so. So what they normally do is they either send you to to teach or to do research, right? So they sent me to San Antonio. I got stationed there at the the Army Baylor Master's program in nutrition. and and it's a great program. So if you're coming in the army and you wanna be a dietitian, you go through that program. And you come out, you know, you're getting paid as a student, you're getting paid to do your internship work, and you're getting a master's degree from Baylor, which is pretty awesome. So I was an assistant professor there and got to teach in that program. Then after that, I had a bunch of amazing students who are doing amazing things now. I got to go to USERIum, which is the US Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine, and that team does some tremendous work for the warfighter in terms of nutrition to improve their performance. It's in Matick, Massachusetts. So I went up, you know, right outside of Boston and got to work with those researchers. And what a humbling assignment that was because, you know, there were just, I mean, some of the most intelligent, caring, passionate people about their work. A guy, Dr. Harris Leverman, people, look up his work. I mean he is a legend. You know, Harris has been doing work. He is a psychologist that works in the world of nutrition. Does some great work. A guy, Dr. Lee Margolis, Lee, you know, these names, yeah, you're the Stefan Paciakos. That's where I met Stefan. I got to like see Stefan work. And I mean that that guy's a machine. Dr. James McClung, his wife Holly McClung, Dr. Phil Carl, the gut microbiome. I cr Kristen, you'll appreciate this. I knew nothing about the gut microbiome. My office was next to Dr. Phil Carl and he made me a believer. Like he like it was Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, I was gonna say it's mind blowing. I used to work in a gut microbiome lab at A and and it was like, whoa. NIck Barringer: Exactly. Yeah, that was that was, you know, before that I was just like, they're the people that collect poop. You know, like I I didn't know. I didn't know. So I got to learn so much. And and you know, I'm gonna I'm probably leaving some folks out, but I mean just the the the folks and the level of scientists were there, you know, the the classic, they they forgot more than I'll ever know. And to work under them was amazing. And then from that, I got another great assignment at I was able to stand up a nutrition position at the University of West Point. under now he's General Nick Gist, but he was the master of the sword. So he's over the Department of Education or pardon me, the Department of Physical Education. And I I taught nutrition in their kinesiology program there. and and that was a lot of fun. Also got to teach combatives. I like, you know, I was a jiu jitsu hobbyist and I got to teach under a guy named Matt Larson, who's the father of modern army combatives. So I got to do nutrition things and then be on the mat and like teach cadets how to fight, which was again dream job, you know. and and then I I ended up my career as the program director for the Army Baylor Masters Program in Nutrition. And and that's where I I retired out of San Antonio and, you know, moved to Houston and kind of started my own thing. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. I mean, you have traveled not only just across the US, but definitely the world. And just to show, again, so many different opportunities. I think that's one incredible part about the military is you have so many different angles within nutrition that you can go. so what I mean, NIck Barringer: That is yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: yeah, you're talking about some of those names and you're right. Like if you're a research nerd like we are, you appreciate like some of these brilliant scientists. And I'm not saying not everyone appreciates them, but Just how smart they are and how much you can learn from them is just, it's mind blowing. I mean, there's been some times where I feel like I'm pretty smart and then I walk in the room, I'm like, I got nothing on these people. Like these people are so freaking smart. so, NIck Barringer: Yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: so talk about what what do you do in your current role, in your LLC? What does a day-to-day look like? How do you get clients? What kind of clients? Things like that. NIck Barringer: Yes, so you know, right now, in critique LLC, which means self-mastery. If anybody's a Ryan Holiday fan, I haven't made it to his bookstore. He's got a bookstore here in Texas. but Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: nice. NIck Barringer: wrote a bunch of great books, The Obstacles Away, Stoicism. If you haven't discovered him, I I recommend, you know, reading some of his work. but I love the concept of self-mastery because that's what I'm trying to help a lot of my my clients do. So I work with, you know, some some individual folks, still work with some athletes, which which I love. but then also I'm I'm finding working with some nutrition companies and some dietary supplement companies. for instance, we have a great collagen research project going on right now in collaboration with East London University and Dr. Lee Brown, out of there, who's a brilliant scientist in the UK, very passionate about firefighters, working with Kent Fire and Rescue Services. So we're doing a 12-week collagen study. I'll wrap up, I'll you know leave here in the next week to go there. and then you know we wrapped up a study. do you know Dr. Laurel Wentz perchance? She's a dietitian. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Mm-hmm. NIck Barringer: So Laurel, brilliant. Got to work with her. We did a a ginger study using ginger shots looking at you know basically putting cyclists through time trials. her and Dr. Jennifer Kurtz were great collaborators. So what I'm I kind of one of the things I'm learning that I really you know have fun with is through these scientific connections I can help these either nutrition companies or these dietary supplement companies take a product and we come up with a you know a study design and then go to these researchers and you know kind of build out a plan, cost it out, and then execute it. And that has been so much fun. Like so much fun. probably mostly because I don't have to be the PI. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: gonna say that when I left academia, that was literally my favorite part. Like I'm no longer writing the grants, I'm coming up with the ideas, I'm no longer doing all the physical labor, managing all the students. There it's fun, right? Like, right, Nick, we had fun doing it, but it's also NIck Barringer: Yes. It's fun. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: fun not doing it. NIck Barringer: Yes, exact that you you summed it up bet more beautifully than I than I could. So I love that. And it well, especially it feeds in my ADHD, because then I can kind of have cause you know as a PI lake, it's hard to have multiple projects. I don't know how they do it. Like you know, when when I I watched like Steph and Lee run multiple studies and all the things they did, I was just like, you serious and my mind was blown. I was lucky if I could, you know, keep one on track. So, you know, now I'm able to kind of jump around and and and it it helps too because where I found my strength or my superpower, and even at Euserium, this is where I discovered it. I was not the best hardcore scientist by any stretch of the imagination, right? Like I'm not gonna be a Lemar Goldist, I'm not gonna be a Stefan Pasiakos, I'm not gonna be a Phil Carl. I could work till I'm blue in the face, I'm not gonna be them. But what I could do is I could go to those infantry commanders and those units that where they wanted To get volunteers from and convince them to give those soldiers and explain to them why that study's important. Or when the study design was going on, I could ask that PI, I could be like, Hey, how's this making the soldier more lethal or harder to kill? And until they could explain that to me well, I would keep pressuring them because I'd be like, it doesn't matter to the folks on the ground. Until you get that right, until we ask a question that's gonna actually benefit those, like the study doesn't matter. Yeah, cool science, bro, but we're here to make the warfighter better. And and so kind of doing that in between the the end user and the actual scientist, I I find that's where I I'm strongest. And so I've just kind of taken that into the civilian sector. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Love that. You know, and you're right. I I think as academics, a lot of times we're thinking like, we have so many questions, we would love to answer the questions just to advance the scientific understanding. And then when you're talking about, you know, a brand or a food or whatever it might be, a supplement, they're looking for a competitive edge. Does their product work? Does their product help with X, Y, and Z outcome? And so you're kind of at that intersection. And that's how I've, you know, kind of found myself as I left academia, like. It's not no longer just about the generalized question of what I want. Does that product help in whatever the outcome is? Because that's really what they're looking for. So super cool. So we talk about science. I mean, researchers. I mean, that's been your ingrained in you. So how does scientific data and evidence really come into your day-to-day of what you do in your LLC? NIck Barringer: Well, w working with with athletes or working with even, you know, an executive wants to perform better, knowing the science and knowing the mechanism and helping them navigate. you know, I'm gonna butcher Rachel's name. I was just I was just listening to her on a podcast, Potogenic, you know who I'm talking about, shout Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No. NIck Barringer: out to California, I know her. I'm I'm sorry, Rachel, if you hear this. but you know, she was talking about she summed it up very nicely in like big levers and little levers, in that a lot of these things, these folks, these athletes I'm working with, or even some of the executive, you know. They're they're listening to the Huberman. They're listening to Gabrielle Lyon, our mutual friend. they they're you know, they they're listening to to to Louisa, you know, they're listening to all these different people who have great information and great science. And if you don't listen to them, I recommend that you do. but the Andy Galpans, et cetera. but sometimes they they'll get like hung up, not the the podcaster, but the individual listening to them, like on one little like thing that's a small lever, right? That they That they get on. And so being able to help me, like, yeah, you know, cold plunging is good. That's great and all, but let's talk about how much you're drinking. Let's talk about your alcohol intake. Right. And that's, you know, it's a little tough to navigate, but that's going to make you feel much better and have you sleep much better by adjusting that versus anything you do in that cold plunge. Not to say don't do a cold plunge, not to say don't get one, right? Like, hey, if you love it, my brother-in-law loves a good cold plunge. Like, I'm, and I support it. but it but it's fine in those sort of things. And then for the high level athletes, and this is what I really love working with them, is you are searching for that little advantage somewhere, you know, where where can something you know help them? So that's where even I I go beyond nutrition. I give an example because he cause he's talked about this publicly. The UFC fighter I work with, I mean. He says that one of the biggest things I did for him was not his nutrition, but his sleep. So when I started working with him, I immediately had him get an aura ring. So no matter where he is in the country, I can log in and I can look and look at his aura data. And I would beat him up early on. I'd be like, hey, what happened last night? What was this? Why was this? Why aren't you know, all like that? And just beat him because he was sleeping like five to six hours a night as a professional athlete at the highest level. And I was like, Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: You need more. Right. NIck Barringer: Yeah, I'm like, you you can't do that. You have to sleep seven. And he's kind of like, And then once he started sleeping seven, he's he's like, this is this is unbelievable. I don't hurt as much when I spar, I'm not as banged up, I'm not as, you know. so again, it's it's finding those little those little holes, you know, somewhere in their kind of lifestyle factors, and then plugging it in and and giving them that advantage. Because, you know, as a as a dietitian or even if you're a strength coach or whatever, you can't control like once he goes in that cage, I can't. I I'm not telling him to throw a spinning b elbow or anything like that. That's on his technical. That's that's all him or whatever. But if I can make the weight cut easier, if I can make his recovery and training camp easier, if I can give him a supplement or something that so he's cognitively more on in the cage, or I I worked, I was I was lucky enough to work with Olympic Bob Sledder, you know, same with her, like she's able to produce more force, th those sort of things and give him that little bit of an advantage, that's that's winning for for me, right? Now they they can control the ul ultimate outcome. that takes place on the ice or in the cage or, you know, wherever else. so so that's that's what excites me and still gets me up every Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And you said it so perfectly. That's the dietitian part of it, right? Like you can have the sports and performance side, but the dietitian really looks at all the other lifestyle factors. It is things like sleep. It is what you're putting in your body, both food and drink. It's timing, right? There's there's so many factors that I I love how you talked about, okay, the cold plunge, I get the benefit, but like, is it really the the biggest lever? I remember seeing clients all the time where it's like, I get that you want to go on, you know, eliminate all of this on your diet, but it's like, is that really the biggest issue? Like, is the food diet the really the biggest issue? No, it's stop eating so much crappy food, right? Like, and so it I think sometimes, especially with so many podcasts and information overload in the nutrition space, you really do need dietitians to cut through the noise and say, hey, here's what the data's saying. Here's some specific lifestyle factors that are gonna give you that itch. Is it gonna help you in every other aspect of your life? Maybe, maybe not. It, you know, and so I think working on working through that is super powerful. So, Nick, you've had a pretty awesome career. I'm not gonna lie. It sounds really fun. Part of me NIck Barringer: Okay. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: wants to live in your life sometimes. So what's been your favorite or something you feel like you've had the most impact in? NIck Barringer: The the most impact I mean you know two of the things and obviously be the the military just so passionate about that population helping them. You know, one was that with the the Ranger Athlete Warrior Program. It's it's still there today at the 75th Ranger Regiment. I do want to give a shout out to, you know, the physical therapist that hired me, Dr. Danny McMillan, the occupational therapist. That was the other thing. We were the first kind of multifunctional team all working together. The occupational therapist, Rob Monts and I, there was there was a guy NCO Matt Wilson who helped on the training. So we had a team that that worked there standing up that human performance program that later, you know, kind of helped and was the model for Thor 3, which was the human special operations human performance program throughout the Army. that was stood up by Karen Daigle, who's a brilliant diet dietitian, and Christy Logan, who's a super brilliant. She's at she's at SOCOM now and that program's grown. But then H2F, Army Holistic Health and Fitness, you look at a lot of the the things, they they took a lot of those things and lessons learned from some special operations and Ranger Regiment. Even when the Army combat fitness test came out, we had designed some ranger athlete warrior physical fitness test. They basically took a lot of the same tests that we did at Ranger Regiment and and and put them out to the Army, you know. So so that was I that was some proud moments of saying, like, okay, we we did something that now. has been, you know, has grown. And we've got civilian dietitians working and in throughout the community. that that was that's that's probably my most like proud. And then, you know, the other piece of it is I I am proud that, hey, we got a dietitian at West Point now teach teaching those cadets. There had always been a civilian one at the kind of the higher level, cadet level. But as you know, one dietitian for a compl you know for an entire university is not enough. We we didn't have one teaching in the kinesiology program. So I was able to, you know, stand that position up and with the help of you don't do anything along with with General Guest and now the the superintendent who just retired General Gillen having the belief in me and and bringing me on, that that position now I think they're about ready to hire their their third dietitian. Like, you know, so it's so it's staying. And and that's that's the most rewarding because it's like there's a lot of things you can do, but then as soon as you leave, It goes it goes away. And I've exp and I've done that. I've been guilty of that throughout my career. That a lot of the things I created were dependent on me. But again, to that mentor at the 75th Ranger Regiment, Dr. Russ Cotwall, he taught me about systems and was like, that's what you have to build. Because he's like, if you leave and everything goes away when you leave, you failed. I don't I don't care how good you think you are, you failed. But if you build a system that'll stay past when you leave. Then you were successful. And so that really changed the way I think. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's such great feedback because I wish I knew that when I left academia. I left academia and like everything could just kind of vanish in the wind. Like I'm still standing on so much data that has never been published because I didn't build the system, right? Versus so I I see what you're saying. Like, especially I think a lot of times for dietitians to get roles and then when they leave, a lot of times maybe it's not filled, right? And it just kind of vanishes. So to build the infrastructure. To say, hey, this role is incredibly valuable. We need a person in this role. And that really is a systems-based approach, which is a different level of thinking, right? It's not I'm doing the job. It's this role is doing the job and I'm filling it in this time. Because you're right. I mean, people leave jobs all the time, right? And we see it like I've seen it throughout my career of, that person left, great. That position is just. Gone in the wind. It's never gonna be there again. So I think that is really powerful. And just the sheer amount of people that not only you've had the pleasure of working with, but that you've been able to coach, mentor, lead, supervise, guide, help, right? Like that sometimes we brush that off, but it's also like that it is so powerful, the sheer volume of people that you've helped. So Nick, you know Let's say someone's interested in a career like yours. Let's say they want to get into the 75th Ranger program. They want to be in army. They want to do research. What tips do you have for someone to maybe have roles like that? NIck Barringer: You know, the Army is pretty easy. Go talk to a recruiter. I know no recruiters paying me. Maybe they should, but no, you know, we would be go check out the Army Baylor Master's program in nutrition. It it's it's a great program. And again, I I get no kickbacks for it, but why I say that is for me, kind of going through schooling, the goal was to come out debt-free, right? Or or with you know, some money in the bank. So Army R O T C paid for my my undergrad. the the military paid for my my graduate res you know degree. So again, now especially as dietitians, you you're gonna get have to switch to that graduate degree. It's a great program in that you go, you're getting paid the whole time as a lieutenant, right? You're getting paid to learn and you come out with a job, you come out with experience, and you you come out with a degree. And now now I will be clear There, I mean there's there's some risk involved, if you will, and I'm not gonna put it lightly, and you have to accept that. So if you're not if if that's not your cup of tea, don't do it. Don't don't even think about it. Right. but I always tell people, I wanted to be a dietitian, also wanted to shoot guns and jump out of planes. That was the only job I could find that you could do both. So I I was I was like, this is great. If that's not your cup of tea, then then don't do it. but if that's not your cup of tea, but you still want to work with this population, certainly. Look at H2F, Holistic Health and Fitness, USA jobs, they're always hiring. look at you know the POTIF in special operations. They're they're also hiring these dietitians. And there are tremendous, you know, group of dietitians out there working. Kate Burke, trying to you know think of it, you know, Kelsey Bailey used to work in that, now she has her own practice, but she was the 10th special forces group for a while. I mean there, you know, if you look at ASPDA now has that tactical section. Go in there because all those people, Justin Robinson, all those those people that are in that kind of ASPDA tactical thing, a lot of them are, you know, for lack of better term, like the OGs who've been around and who were those first contractors in that space. So you can go to the contract space, or if you want to jump out of planes and shoot guns, go, you know, go the green suitors place. And so that's that's your your kind of your option. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I like how you gave that example too of there are civilian roles where you can be involved in military, in tactical, in helping those families without maybe going the military route if that's not the area you want to go. Or yeah, you want to jump out of planes and shoot guns. I mean, that sounds pretty freaking cool to me. So yeah, I think there's that's really good tips and advice, especially on the research side. If you want to go into the research, there is a lot of tactical And military angled researchers, whether it's a research center like you serium, or you go to researchers who do this sort of work, right? We were talking about Drew Casen's over in Texas, Rick Kreider, I mean Stefan Paciaco's like at Pennington. You do have researchers who do this type of work if maybe you don't want to go that military route, but you wanna be in that in that arena. So really helpful advice. Go ahead. NIck Barringer: Yeah, and and even and even for all tactical athletes, because I don't want to forget about our you know police and fire, Jay Dawes at Oklahoma, you know, or Oklahoma State. Anyway, sorry Jay, I don't care what's here. Oklahoma State, yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: There's a few people at Oklahoma State. Yeah. NIck Barringer: Okla Oklahoma State. I Annette Zap's there. Like so so again, tactical is cool now, which when I first started, it was it was not cool. It was it you know, there was just like a few of us nerds in it, but it's really expanded. So If you're interested in tactical athletes at all, yes, you know, look out there because there are certain Joel Martin does a lot of great research with firefighters. So there there's tons of people. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, and I it and it you may not even just go tactical. You might go the sports route and it ends up going into tactical because tactical is technically under the sports umbrella, right? So I think there are a lot of opportunities. Shoot, I even have been seeing a bunch of minor league baseball and hockey teams hiring full time dietitians. So things have gone a lot in that direction of supporting these athletes no matter the intensity or Or the scale, I guess you could say, of what those athletes are. Okay, my favorite question, Nick. If you had a crystal ball, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? NIck Barringer: Well, I I think it's kind of already here with a lot of the artificial intelligence and you know the the blood work, the gut microbiome, but the the personalization is only gonna get more and more, you know, granular. very very exciting. I I mean, now I have the ability to work with the client and let's say Michigan, right? And I through and and there's multiple companies you can use. I use Vitality Blueprint, you can use a bunch, you know, but whatever. They can go get their blood drawn, schedule it on their own, whatever. I got their labs. I can break down their labs. I can go with it through them, whatever. If they want to do a gut microbiome test, you can do that. Where before, as you know, it it was all like you ask them questions, maybe a questionnaire. but I can look under the engine of that athlete, of that individual from across country and and and do it. And so I I think you're getting that. And and it it it opens up a lot of opportunities for dietitians. It does it also makes it more competitive. Cause again, you're in you're in Florida. That that person, you know, at one point in Texas or Oklahoma, they would probably work with a dietitian in Texas or Oklahoma. But now with all these different platforms and different ways to do it, they could work with whoever's the best wherever they are. so I I think you're gonna see a lot more of that. And and and it's and it's again, it's exciting and even global work. I mean I'm doing this research study in London. And and I I think the i the world's getting smaller and smaller. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, well, and you even gave an example earlier of the aura ring and how you use a data informed approach to be able to support the client. And you know, I saw the other week, it wasn't too long ago, I think DEXCOM now has approval for you know, it's a continuous blood glucose monitor that is for general population rather than just a diabetes specific regulation. So I think now you are gonna have so much more data and accessibility. And yes, you can use AI and some of these things to synthesize what does that mean. But you do need clinicians at the intersection between here's a digestion of the data, here's what actually makes sense. Like, no, you don't need the cold plunge. You need to stop drinking so much, right? But the AI would probably be like, yeah, cold plunge is scientifically shown to help support, you know, NIck Barringer: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: whatever. Cool, you're right, but you also have to think about the person. And so I think. A lot of these AI s can support, but you also need the clinician to be able to digest and understand the patient to be able to really provide that personalized nutrition that I don't think technology is going to be able to fully digest some of those things because there's so much nuance, right? NIck Barringer: Yeah, I I don't think we're going away. Yeah. Well, and and I just, you hu our human nature, like that relationship. I mean, I I'll say this, and I think I can speak for my clients and you know, they're they don't, you know, they don't care about letting down chat PT chat chat GPT or Claude or Grok. They don't want to let Nick down or whatever, or that goal or themselves down, or there's that personal, hey, I'm gonna call how have you been doing? What is that? Okay, I see this. on your aura or or whoop. I've used Whoop too is we're using Whoop with those firefighters in the UK. You know, what what's going on? It's it's just artificial intelligence can't do that. It you just can't. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, the I've actually never even thought of that, but you're so right. The accountability is a huge part. I remember as you know, as a practicing dietitian, that accountability part was probably more important than half the times what I even tell them that we were gonna work on, right? They're NIck Barringer: yeah. No, that's it. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: like, shoot, I did it's been a month, I haven't done any of that. I'm like, Yeah, okay, well we need to set different goals because clearly that wasn't relevant. Nick, it was so awesome having you on the show and talking about your story. And of course, you have to gig him to all the Aggies out there. If you're listening, shout out because we both came from Aggi Land. But if you like the podcast, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode, I bring out a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.