Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Mickey 17

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Mickey 17 · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:05
Hello, Welcome to our costume podcast.
0:07
I'm Elizabeth Joy Glass. And I am Spencer #1 you could
0:11
just call me Spencer Williams, though.
0:13
I will. I will.
0:14
I don't believe there's any clones of me just yet, and if
0:18
there are, they're not killing. It unless you're a part of like
0:20
a secret Orphan Black project, but you haven't watched that
0:23
yet. I have a wrong wrong title for
0:26
today. Never mind.
0:27
Never mind Spencer. Elizabeth, a constant cursor in
0:33
the Art of Costume podcast has always been our love for Robert
0:36
Pence. And we've done a Batman episode.
0:40
We've done 2 Twilight episodes. We have.
0:43
About the same Twilight movie. We have we actually have done 2
0:49
twilight. And now today we are getting a
0:54
whole batch of Robert Pansons. Today we are watching Bong Joon
0:57
Ho's new film Mickey 17. I'm so excited to get.
1:02
It so excited. This was so much fun.
1:04
It was. So much fun.
1:05
We went to the good old theaters because we believe in seeing
1:08
films like this on the big screen if you can, with my new
1:13
favorite best friends, Chloe and Jonathan.
1:17
Yeah, we got to hang out with them and just sit back and watch
1:19
some good old fashioned kooky cinema with a crap ton of Robert
1:24
Pansons. And it was.
1:25
It was fun it. Was fantastic.
1:27
Oh, fun sci-fi thriller. Yeah, and comedy and satire and
1:35
tragedy. All the things it was.
1:37
Great did. You ever see parasite?
1:39
No, I haven't. You got to that, I know.
1:43
So this is Bong Joon Ho's first film since he got the Oscar for
1:48
Parasite, so he the shackles have been removed.
1:52
He now feels like he could just put out some fun, great content
1:56
and he's, I mean, he's doing a great job.
1:58
He's killing. It he took advantage fully,
2:03
yeah. This is what happens when we win
2:05
an Oscar. You get to come up with all your
2:07
fun ideas. Elizabeth.
2:09
Let's get into it. Absolutely.
2:13
So this film was directed, of course, by Bong Joon Ho, and
2:20
Mickey 17 is about a disposable employee who was sent on a human
2:24
expedition to colonize the ice world of Niflheim.
2:28
After one iteration dies, a new body is regenerated with most of
2:32
his memories intact. However, upon his return, he
2:35
discovers that a replacement has already been created, leading to
2:38
a forbidding coexistence of duplicates that threatens to
2:42
mission stability. And that is Mickey 17.
2:46
I ever go see this movie, it is so much fun.
2:53
Like it's been a long time. I feel like especially since
2:57
I've gone to the theaters and just seen like a fun movie.
3:01
Yeah, it's just, it's just fun. It's fun.
3:04
It doesn't take itself too seriously, which is important,
3:07
but like you still it made you think though too.
3:10
Though at the same time, like you, I remember going home that
3:13
night and just being like, you know what?
3:16
What? What did I just see?
3:19
It's like, I don't think I've been this critical of a new film
3:22
in like a long time. Just not in a bad way.
3:25
Just like thinking about it and like what I thought about it.
3:29
And I love it had so much like blockbuster energy like that.
3:35
I remember from like the 2000s like it gave that and it looked
3:42
so incredible. Let's meet the costume designer
3:46
Catherine George. You'll know her work from We
3:51
Need to Talk about Kevin Snowpiercer Okja, the pilot
3:56
episode of Succession. Great work to set up an amazing.
4:02
Fantastic. Work show and the dead don't
4:06
die. Catherine George has worked with
4:10
Bong Joon Ho on both Snowpiercer and Ultra, so she is definitely
4:15
someone who's she was. I mean, I'm sure she was
4:18
surprised on what she got herself into this time around,
4:21
but she's definitely used to the antics.
4:23
Absolutely. And I love like a director and a
4:26
costume designer pairing where it's like, OK, they under the
4:30
costume designer understands how the director thinks and the
4:35
director clearly fully loves and appreciates the costume
4:39
designers process and vision. It just makes it excited too,
4:43
because you know, like all the great things they're going to do
4:45
together. Like you think of like the
4:47
Colleen Atwoods with Tim Burton and the Sandy Powells with
4:50
Martin Scorsese, and then you got like Kate Hawley of
4:53
Guillermo del Toro. Look out for this power duo
4:56
right here between Kath and George and Bong Joon Ho, because
4:59
they're going to do a lot more great stuff.
5:01
I think that. Elizabeth, Dan and I made a pact
5:05
that we were just going to really try to kick up the behind
5:08
the costume facts as much as we possible for all of our
5:10
episodes. So I literally create a full on
5:13
a little Bible. All these facts you.
5:17
You sent us a picture in our group chat of that and I was
5:20
like, oh, Spencer went all in. We're going hard.
5:24
Let's take a little break and then we're going to get into it.
5:27
We have good stuff. We have quotes from Robert
5:29
Panson himself, Mark Ruffalo, Bong Joon Ho, and OF course,
5:33
costume designer Catherine George.
5:35
So let's get into it right after this break.
5:42
Hi, I'm Dan, who does all the magic behind the scenes.
5:45
I wanted to say thank you. And if you want to support the
5:48
show even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash the Art
5:54
of Costume, where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
5:58
T-shirts, mugs and stickers. Also, be sure to leave a like
6:03
comment and subscribe. And if you're an audio listener,
6:07
leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
6:10
Now back to the show. Spencer, Are you ready to get
6:19
into the sci-fi film of the year?
6:22
Mickey 17? It's my sci-fi film of the year
6:25
at least. I'm trying to think what's
6:27
coming out this year, and you might be right.
6:29
I think I'm right. I totally think I'm right.
6:32
Yeah, I'm so excited. And you and I were just talking,
6:35
you know, right before the break on how we really went home just
6:38
thinking about this film a lot. And like, what was it saying?
6:43
I mean, it's saying a lot, a lot of different themes on why it
6:46
was, you know, so in ways very campy and over the top, but
6:50
still so impactful and what it was saying.
6:54
And director Bong Joon Ho actually was asked that question
6:58
in the press side of this film. A lot of her behind the cosmic
7:02
facts today are brought to you by Warner Brothers Studios,
7:06
given us words directly from the stars themselves.
7:09
So very appreciative of that. So Bong Joon Hill was asked, why
7:13
do you think Mickey 17 resonates with people?
7:16
And he very correctly said, first of all, Robert Panson is a
7:22
very charming actor. So I think that's why people are
7:25
interested. And I'm not joking.
7:28
He knew who he was casting. I know what I'm doing, he says.
7:32
We really see a new side of him in this film, a side we've never
7:35
seen from him, and that naturally blends with the film
7:37
story and theme. It's one of the best parts.
7:40
This is a sci-fi film, but it's also a comedy and a very human
7:43
story, so I hope the audience enjoys it for what it is.
7:46
And then when they go home after watching it, I hope they spend a
7:49
brief moment thinking about what makes us human, what we must do
7:52
to stay human. Just briefly. 3 minutes maybe?
7:58
He was like, think about it, not too hard to think about.
8:01
It like, look, I totally get that this is a Robert Pattinson,
8:06
you know, beautiful vanity project that we all love, but
8:09
also there's some very serious underlying tones there if you're
8:13
like open to. Receiving, yeah, especially like
8:17
when we look at, especially with AI, all the technology that's
8:21
potentially ahead of us, like, OK, what do?
8:25
What do we as humans, what do we hold on to, right?
8:28
It's very much like, yes, you can have a good time, but just
8:31
know that we're going to be having these conversations a lot
8:33
more. So this was like a nice dip your
8:35
toes in the existentialism of the future cause the future is
8:40
coming real quick. We also talked about how Bong
8:44
Joon Ho has worked with Catherine George, the costume
8:46
designer quite before. He didn't get to talk about the
8:49
relationship a lot, but what he did say was costume designer
8:52
Catherine George. She's a long time colleague.
8:54
We did Snowpiercer and Okja together.
8:57
She has her own unique approach and understand characters.
9:00
So it's always a joy to see all the costumes she comes up with,
9:03
which I thought it's just a nice and very sweet message.
9:07
He definitely respects the craft, and I believe that he
9:11
just knows that he can trust her to, you know, take it away and
9:15
do great work and bring her own vision to it.
9:19
So I'm excited to see what they do.
9:21
Me too. Forward, but let's start to
9:24
break it down. So this is a film that takes
9:28
place in the future right? This in quotes the future.
9:31
It looks different every sci-fi film we talk about.
9:34
Every sci-fi film looks so different.
9:35
I like that. It was like a near future 'cause
9:40
it was like all the the look of it, everything was very
9:44
familiar. But you're like, OK, I can see
9:49
like that being what fashion is in 25 years.
9:53
Right. It felt very realistic, you
9:55
know, it felt like this, this is like a natural progression of
9:59
where society is going. It wasn't of course, like we see
10:02
like the creeper creatures and all that, which feels very over
10:05
the top and sci-fi. But like, when they're actually
10:07
on the ship, there's nothing about that makes you feel like
10:10
this isn't like an attainable society.
10:13
And that's something that Kath and George really spoke to on
10:16
predicting the future. She said predict in the future.
10:19
And looking at past movies that have tried to do that, it's
10:22
always tricky. It's a big risk.
10:24
You can get elements of it right, But really, no one is
10:27
expecting you to predict the future.
10:29
The more we talked about it, and each time I showed Director Bong
10:32
research of anything futuristic, he reacted against it.
10:36
The deeper we gone to prep, the more became apparent.
10:39
They wanted a more utility. I can't say that utilitarian,
10:44
much more industrial and dirtier world rooted in reality.
10:48
I could see how the production design was going at the same
10:51
time, and we came upon this idea to expose the inner mechanisms
10:55
like they had done in the workings of the ship.
10:57
The inside, on the outside, that nothing's really covered up.
11:01
It's all practical. That became the theme throughout
11:04
the costumes of the cruise workwear.
11:07
And I, I love that because like I said, it just feels very
11:11
practical. You know, they're not walking
11:13
around with like light up Tron suits and magical helmets.
11:18
They're like, you know, even the, like, space suit that
11:20
Mickey's wearing just feels like, oh, that's like an
11:23
astronaut suit. It's very familiar, but it's
11:26
streamlined, like Mickey's space suit.
11:30
If you put that on, you know, the Apollo mission astronauts,
11:34
you would be like, something's wrong.
11:36
But you wouldn't, you wouldn't, like, notice it right away
11:40
because it's a little streamlined.
11:41
Everything's like just a little bit smoother.
11:44
But it's like, oh, yeah, no, that's a space suit.
11:46
Yeah. You could see it being worn
11:48
today. Yeah, one thing I love about
11:51
this too was, OK, one of my favorite films in the 80s is The
11:55
Thing, John Carpenter's film, because it's it's another like
11:59
film that takes place and very Arctic world.
12:01
Never seen it and I really want to I'm.
12:03
Not surprised you have not seen the thing.
12:06
I didn't even ask you because I knew you hadn't seen it.
12:09
Yeah. This is this is a movie I do
12:10
actually really want to see. It's the perfect horror film,
12:13
but it's also like, it's, I don't think it's supposed to be
12:16
futuristic, but it's really the same idea.
12:19
And then I was like, oh man, like this feels so inspired by
12:22
The Thing. And then turns out director Bong
12:25
Joon Ho has a museum exhibition opening up at the Academy Museum
12:29
very soon and it's all about his inspirations in film making.
12:33
And guess what film they are screaming The Thing, The Thing.
12:38
Bong Joon Ho is then going to do AQ and a after with director
12:41
John Carpenter about how The Thing has been an inspiration
12:44
for him. That's so exciting, I.
12:47
Was like, Oh, well, duh. Like this is this is the vibe
12:51
that they were looking for in terms of the costumes.
12:54
It was not like sparkly, you know, the fifth element type.
12:58
This is very much like these are working people working class,
13:02
working on a ship and doing hard odd jobs.
13:05
If you're Mickey 17, it's a little bit, you know, different
13:08
story. You're definitely doing odder
13:10
jobs. But these are just real people
13:12
living in a very chaotic society and.
13:17
I love, like I love wild sci-fi. I love thinking of the distant
13:21
future and what it's gonna be. But we're coming to like a time
13:25
in history where like a lot of these, like, especially like
13:29
seventies, 80s, like sci-fi movies and shows, they were
13:33
predicting what's it going to be like in the twenty 20s.
13:37
And like the closer we get to like what people have already
13:40
predicted, I'm like, OK, like that's not where it's going.
13:44
So I love something like Mickey 17 where it's like, OK, I can
13:49
see that future for us. Yeah, it's really interesting.
13:51
They've seen like a perspective shift, you know, like, like I
13:56
just watched Blade Runner 2049 the other day and it's very much
13:59
like, oh, we're all going to have like our cool hot AI
14:01
girlfriend and flying cars and whatnot.
14:04
And, and like, and now that we're seeing like the reveal of
14:08
the cyber truck and everyone's like, I don't want this.
14:12
Like the perspective is changing actively in front of us.
14:17
Let's get back to Mickey and the many Mickeys that we love.
14:22
So Robert Penson talked about this character.
14:24
I think it's important before we get into the costume, Robert was
14:28
asked who is Mickey? And Robert said Mickey is a
14:32
deceptively complicated character.
14:35
At first glance, he kind of seems like a sort of simpleton,
14:38
but he's not. He has quite specific desires.
14:41
He's quite innocent and naive in lots of ways.
14:43
He comes from a place of extreme hurt.
14:45
He's trying to deal with a lot of trauma, but manifests itself
14:48
looking quite silly to other people.
14:50
But it's not silly to him. It does read sort of innately
14:54
comedic and very heightened to me, which I think speaks a lot
14:59
to this character and the many changes you see him go through.
15:03
But the brief though given to Catherine George in terms of the
15:07
character and what he would look like, Bong Joon Ho's brief
15:10
Florida character of Mickey, was to have him look vulnerable and
15:13
a bit of a loser. Mickey has several key looks.
15:16
His expendable uniform is very much like a prison suit.
15:20
Yeah, totally practical and very utilitarian.
15:23
Did I get it right that time? Utilitarian, yeah.
15:27
That's one of those words that's.
15:28
Something I know how to say. That word does not register my
15:32
brain. With the exception of several.
15:35
OK, but it's totally practical and with the exception of
15:39
several openings and access points of magnet fastenings
15:42
which allow the lab team to get to him quickly to inject or
15:45
experiment on him. There's even a butt flap which
15:49
emphasizes his vulnerability and adds to his embarrassment.
15:53
The scanning suit is based on a cooling garment that astronauts
15:56
wear inside their suits. The thin tubing across entire
15:59
suit exposes the mechanisms. The thermal suit has the same
16:02
technology if the heating cables visible on the outside of the
16:05
suit. This is based on a high altitude
16:08
vintage military suit which is also a heated garment.
16:12
So like they kind of mentioned, everything on the inside is on
16:16
the. Outside, I like that.
16:18
And very kind of spooky, too, You know, like, you're seeing
16:22
this. It is funny.
16:24
You're like, OK, yeah. Mickey.
16:25
He's kind of like a quirky guy. He's very goofy.
16:28
He's very goofy, but then the costumes kind of lead you to
16:31
feel sad for him because he's always like connected to some
16:34
sort of tubing or yeah, butt flaps and ready to be injected.
16:39
Into dying. Yeah, so it's you feel, but you
16:42
see this beautiful smiling face. That's Ryan Panson.
16:45
But he's just in this, like, uniform all the time that's
16:47
weighing him down. It's not saying like, oh man,
16:49
like this guy's a quick access type costume where they could
16:54
inject him with some disease within the next two minutes if
16:57
they wanted to. It's very kind of depressing.
17:00
It is. Katherine George spoke about
17:03
working on the character Mickey. She said Mickey's clothing is
17:08
issued for Expendables and basically it's disposable.
17:12
It's totally practical and extremely utilitarian.
17:19
You're doing great. Stuff.
17:20
Why is that word and every single quote?
17:22
Because. That's a luck.
17:26
It's a lot of openings and access points.
17:28
We use magnets quite long as clothing.
17:31
They can get them easily through his uniform and just basically
17:34
pull the sleeves apart for injections experiments.
17:36
And of course, it was director Bong who requested the edition
17:40
of the butt flap, making them even more vulnerable.
17:43
So he was like, call a meeting, we need a butt flap on the suit
17:50
if you want to keep your job. And everyone's like, yes, Sir.
17:53
Like I, I love the idea of him and Catherine being in a fitting
17:59
with Robert Pattinson. Robert Pattinson has it on and
18:02
he's just like, I really like it.
18:04
I love the concept. It's looking good.
18:07
Can we add a butt flap to Robert?
18:08
Turn around. Because it takes like the
18:12
embarrassment of like wearing like, you know, like the gown at
18:16
the hospital that's like, kind of what they're going through is
18:20
like they're giving him this very disposable uniform that
18:22
they just have access to him at all time.
18:25
It's there's a lot of dark storytelling happening in the
18:27
costumes that I think a lot of people might not see right away.
18:33
I think a big part of this film, though, is like the sets and the
18:38
setting. It really like speaks to the
18:40
mood just as much as the costumes, the production note
18:43
said. Working with Bong Joon Ho, the
18:46
director of photography Darius Kanji, and costume designer
18:50
Catherine George. Together, all of them developed
18:53
a color stacking system which they use across the sets and
18:56
costumes. Their colour palette was very
18:59
tightly calibrated so that costumes are often similar
19:01
shades to interior years, with lighting being the emphasis on
19:06
these colours. Grey on grey in the cafeteria
19:09
cafeteria cycling corridors, a striking contrast to the pinks
19:14
and gold and Marshall and Yifa's room and their wardrobe, and
19:17
burgundy against burgundy in the committee room chairs and carpet
19:21
and in members clothes. So everything was very.
19:24
Beautiful did, yeah. That a serious system.
19:28
Yeah, they did. I love that.
19:30
And it now that like, I know that I'm like, Oh yeah.
19:36
Like it was very monochromatic. Lighting was something they used
19:41
a lot in this film to get things across.
19:45
Man, even just looking at the pictures behind us, it's like
19:48
they could blend in into their environment at all times because
19:52
they're just, a lot of these characters are kind of just
19:55
being looked at as property essentially on this ship.
19:58
They might not think that, but like, they're just numbers, you
20:01
know, to Marshall and just his idea of repopulating this
20:05
planet. In his image.
20:07
Yeah, nasty. So they're all just very much
20:10
kind of blended in because there's no individuality on this
20:13
ship, which is another quite unsettling detail.
20:18
I didn't really have a fact, but I just want to say that Robert
20:21
Panson just looks good in a Yeah, I made a turtleneck.
20:25
Is that that last those last scenes?
20:27
Yeah, he looks so good. Yeah, like the typical Robert
20:31
Panson side part comes through his.
20:33
Jaw lines, right? There, I asked you in the last
20:41
episode, what's better than one Robert Panson, but multiple?
20:45
Multiple. Multiple Robert Pansons.
20:48
You have to be wondering how were they able to get 2 Robert
20:51
Pansons on screen? It kind of breaks my brain
20:54
thinking about it. Well, it really came down 1st to
20:59
the costume and the makeup. So Robert said when it came to
21:03
differentiating Mickey 17 and Mickey 18, it actually really
21:06
started with the voice. That's where it began.
21:08
I. Can see that, yeah.
21:10
Yeah, which we notice. I remember you and I talking
21:12
about it at in the lobby of the theatres, He said.
21:15
I came to London a few months before it started and
21:18
experimented with so many different voices for both of
21:20
them. It was a strange thing because
21:22
you're playing 2 characters who have had to be very much
21:26
delineated, but at the same time, no one else can tell that
21:29
they're actually different. It's a delicate line to walk and
21:32
it's incredibly complicated. But I started out doing an
21:34
extremely different performance than when we did the when we did
21:38
the read through Bond came up to me and said, that voice, you're
21:40
doing don't do that. And I was like, okay, dropping
21:44
it now. Then the makeup department came
21:47
up with these cheeks because Bong initially wanted 18 to have
21:50
chubby cheeks. So experimented with all these
21:53
cheek plumpers, which we were just talking about this on the
21:55
Godfather episode, which I never would have thought of in a
21:59
million years. And then it ended up just being
22:01
a snaggle tooth. We made it so small and it
22:04
slightly tilted my face. I thought that's just enough.
22:07
You just have basically nothing. You can't tell that anything's
22:10
really even there. Then it made me speak
22:12
differently, which made me walk differently, which made me
22:15
behave differently. Just having a little tiny tooth
22:18
in so tons of experiments and it looks like a shadow, a shadow
22:22
self could come from having a snaggle tooth.
22:25
So it's just that little snaggle tooth and eventually they burn
22:28
his face too. So that's a great way to
22:31
differentiate, but it's very subtle.
22:33
It is, it's very subtle, it works perfect, and props to the
22:39
visual effects team do layering them in because it so many
22:45
movies and shows do this have actors playing against
22:48
themselves. I don't think I've seen it done
22:51
so seamlessly though. Right.
22:53
Yeah, it's very seamlessly. And to that point, when it comes
22:57
to the twinning, various techniques are used to achieve
23:00
Robert Panson playing alongside himself.
23:03
Of course, Robert Panson does such a great job playing both
23:06
Mickey 17 and 18, but and to that point, in almost every
23:10
instance, he was filmed playing both roles using a quick switch
23:14
with double Sam Woodhams, who also plays another character in
23:18
a film just like one of the crew members.
23:20
So that as many variables as possible.
23:23
And of course, lighting and general camera movements helped
23:26
kind of cut the camera in between these characters.
23:29
And then he was almost able to like switch to a different
23:32
camera angle in a more straightforward situations.
23:35
VFX split screen, the 2 takes together in the case of more
23:38
complex camera movements or those of a high degree of
23:41
interaction between the two. So like I said, they used the
23:45
double and then they would swap the face or sometimes the whole
23:48
head and hair. So there's, there's a lot going
23:51
on. Yeah, yeah.
23:52
VFX were like woof. They're like, let's go.
23:56
Yeah, this was, you know, it was pretty sweaty in that
23:59
department. They had a couple months of late
24:01
late night. All right, another character
24:07
that I loved was Nasha. Nasha.
24:10
Was great, played by the great Naomi Aki, who I must say is not
24:13
in as many films as I would like her to be.
24:15
Because she's true. She's very.
24:17
I haven't. I don't think I've seen her
24:18
since she was in one of the Star Wars films.
24:22
One of the very think the. Very last one.
24:25
Yeah, which I haven't seen since is in the theaters.
24:28
Same. I yeah, I don't think I've seen
24:29
her in anything else since. Then she was in Zoe Kravitz's
24:33
direct director debut last year watching Me Neither, but she was
24:39
fantastic in this. And Naomi spoke about her
24:43
costume and working with Catherine George, she said.
24:46
I felt really cool in my costume.
24:48
As soon as we finished the final fitting and I had my little leg
24:51
strap gun holster, I was like, OK, this is a cool lady.
24:55
I was walking in a different way.
24:57
It gave me a bit of swagger. Our costumes are so indicative
25:00
of who we are and what we're representing in this.
25:04
What I found was that playing against what the costume is
25:06
supposed to evoke was fun. I think there's something that
25:09
could be easily said about someone like Nasha, or she could
25:12
just be the kick ass serious woman who goes around and is
25:15
like you're doing this wrong and halt.
25:17
When actually there are many moments we found where she's
25:19
very silly. She's not really following the
25:21
rules, quite teenage in her response to things, and doing
25:25
all that while being in a very cool security army suit is a
25:28
nice contrast which I think of. Yeah.
25:32
That's cool. She's it's true, she's she looks
25:35
like like the most professional, serious person on the ship, but
25:38
at the same time, she's like, I'm going to hook up with two
25:42
Mickeys. Two Mickeys.
25:44
I mean, you can't blame the girl.
25:47
There was no blame pointed from anyone in that theater.
25:51
No, the only person who was upset was Mickey, 17.
25:54
Yeah. Honestly.
25:57
But yeah, she's very buttoned up.
25:58
Yeah, but just also very quirky too.
26:02
I love what she says about like, responding like a teenager
26:07
because she's definitely that like overly accomplished kid in
26:12
high school but who is constantly getting in trouble
26:16
because they opened their mouth to complain about something and
26:19
though it was a valid complaint, the adults were still like, no,
26:23
yeah, go to the principals office.
26:25
Yeah, you know, she's dressed like a full on member of the
26:29
military. Yeah.
26:31
All right, we gotta talk about Mark Ruffalo and this very bone
26:36
chilling performance. Yeah, of Kenneth.
26:39
Because Mark Ruffalo is such a cutie and then he plays this
26:44
disgusting individual. I think this is kind of like his
26:47
new vibe days of join, because he also played that very scary
26:50
character in poor things. Like he's just having a good
26:53
time playing unlikable characters because like you
26:56
said, he is a very like like, well cutie character.
27:00
You know, guy in every film but this one it's like, uh oh.
27:05
So before we get into the costume, Mark Ruffalo said about
27:09
finding Kenneth Marshall. It was a struggle to pin him
27:12
down at first there's a nod to cult like political figures, but
27:16
Bong told me I want him to be more insecure. 1/3 Raider.
27:20
He's a failed politician with a small following sent away on a
27:24
barely functional ship. The church company doesn't
27:27
really value him. He has this evangelical charisma
27:30
but never reaches true cult leader status.
27:33
Which which makes him funnier, more vulnerable and ironically,
27:36
still dangerous. He's also told a narcissist,
27:39
constantly making everything about himself.
27:41
His dynamic with his wife Eva, played by amazing Toni Collette,
27:45
is hilarious. He's like a needy little boy,
27:48
always checking in. How am I doing?
27:50
Should I be stronger? Should I tune it down?
27:53
On top of that, his whole look, his hair, the teeth I had made,
27:57
it just adds to the absurdity. And I think that's right on.
28:01
That's his character down to the T.
28:03
So Catherine George, the costume designer, talked about
28:06
differentiating Marshall and Yufa, who is played by Toni
28:09
Collette. She said Marshall's really
28:12
combination of many elements of current and past world leaders
28:16
in research. We built up a board of different
28:18
looks and then we sort of honed in on extreme looks and
28:21
characteristics. In actuality, he's a failed
28:24
leader. He didn't succeed on Earth and
28:26
it's going on this mission and he uses that as a tool to try
28:29
and be powerful. He's greedy and he's
28:32
ostentatious and that all comes across in his wardrobe, but also
28:36
as a failure. So he doesn't quite get it
28:39
right. He tries to entertain, but not
28:41
in the best way. It's quite cheesy.
28:43
On the other hand, Yefa, his wife, is very supportive of him.
28:46
She tries to be the first lady. She tries to make her make
28:50
herself likable to the crew and to the agents.
28:53
She wears a lot of pink in her apartment.
28:55
She surrounded herself in pink and gold and black.
28:58
They look completely out of place on the ship.
29:01
They're the type of leaders who are just out of touch of what's
29:04
going on around them, and it's evident just looking at them.
29:07
Yes. Chefs kiss.
29:10
Absolutely, I loved their dynamic 'cause it gave very
29:15
like, she's the power behind the man and like if she was with
29:21
someone who like was a little more charming, like they
29:25
probably would have been successful on Earth, right,
29:28
'cause she definitely like knows how to direct somebody.
29:33
It was giving very much like Ronald Reagan and his wife
29:38
because she was apparently a power behind his political
29:44
desires and achievements, right? So I loved that.
29:48
I loved when they, like, would go down to the crew.
29:50
They definitely tried to, like, tone it down a little bit to fit
29:54
in the way they thought they would.
29:57
But then like every time you see them in their apartments, it's
30:01
like, Oh my gosh, what are you people doing?
30:03
Right. It's like the typical story of
30:05
like, you go to the crew and they're all have to like, fight
30:07
for the rations of food and get to their Dolores Umbridge esque
30:12
apartment and they're just having like, big old grand
30:15
meals. You know, Toni Collette's
30:18
character is just very obsessed with like, juicing, like, it's
30:22
gross, like all sorts of weird stuff.
30:25
And they're always like wrapped in like satins and velvets,
30:29
which I thought was just fantastic because they just,
30:32
they kind of see themselves as like the superstars on the ship,
30:35
which they totally are. I mean he's like running his own
30:37
like little goofy like this. Was all his ideas, Yeah.
30:43
Been fact, you know, there's just a bunch of dorks following
30:46
the lead dorks and they totally put up with it because they look
30:50
up to them. It is.
30:52
I like how they all kind of talk to how he's like the failed cult
30:55
leader, but there's a little bit of success there.
30:59
It's giving lizard people go to space, yes.
31:03
Yeah. Mark Ruffalo talked about his
31:07
costume. He said Katherine George's
31:10
costume reinforced this. The followers are uniform Gray,
31:14
stripped of individuality, while Marshall and Yiefa are
31:18
flamboyant, draped in loud colours and bizarre fashion.
31:22
And then there's Sharon Martin's hair and makeup.
31:24
We were joking around and I said I'm thinking about teeth.
31:26
And she immediately went, Oh my God, me too.
31:30
We landed on these unnaturally perfect chicklet like bonded
31:33
teeth, too flawless to be real. And Marshall has this nighttime
31:38
show, so add the tan, contouring and thick TV makeup.
31:43
Does this sound familiar? Yeah.
31:44
It's all so extreme and amazingly ridiculous.
31:48
Even my hair was at first. I have three hairstyles in this
31:51
movie. In 10 films I've basically had
31:54
like the same hair and now I get 3.
31:57
Pair that with Catherine's costumes, his casual kimono in
32:00
their gilded apartment, his button down political suit, and
32:04
his military commander look. It's also detailed, detailed and
32:07
exaggerated. The contrast between the elite
32:10
and everyone else is striking and it speaks volumes.
32:13
I really think that's like the heart of this film, honestly.
32:17
It's like that right there, that conversation.
32:20
Absolutely. And that's kind of like a Bong
32:23
Joon Ho specialty, honestly. It's like talking about the
32:27
separations of classes and capitalism.
32:30
And you know, we could go into a whole rabbit hole on all the
32:33
themes. We could.
32:35
We absolutely could. I love that Mark Ruffalo loved
32:38
his costume so much too. You could tell he had fun with
32:41
this 10. Yeah, yeah.
32:43
I love seeing actors when they play a character you're not used
32:47
to seeing them play and you can tell they're like just having
32:51
the time of their life. Mark Ruffalo and Mickey 17 and
32:56
in Poor Things, you can tell he's just having so much fun.
33:00
Than Denzel Washington and Gladiator 2.
33:03
Yeah. There.
33:04
You go are like breaking out of their boxes and they are loving
33:08
it and I love to see that. Yeah, we're trying new things.
33:11
Yeah, and it pays off most of the time.
33:14
And it definitely paid off with Mickey 17.
33:17
Toni Killette talked about bringing her character to life,
33:20
and she really gave tribute to all of the crew who really made
33:24
her character come to life, she said.
33:26
I was certainly helped by everybody else's input into the
33:28
character. That often happens hair, makeup,
33:33
costume. Seeing her set, I remember
33:35
walking into a room and going, we have pink fur stairs.
33:39
It was just outrageous. All these people were able to
33:42
bring very little on the spaceship, but these two brought
33:45
everything but the kitchen sink. They're just so self-serving.
33:49
So she very much gave tribute to like.
33:51
Yeah, it was all about the costume, the hair, makeup, and
33:55
Toni Collette gives a very Toni Collette esque performance, I
33:59
think, which is so fun. And she's like, the costume just
34:02
helps bring that person to life. She's also like a little bit
34:05
scary though. She it.
34:06
Oh, she's probably the scariest person on the ship.
34:09
It's like that that nice lady at the supermarket that's a little
34:14
too nice. And you're like, she's probably
34:16
going to kill me if I cut her in line.
34:18
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
34:22
She reminds me a lot of our nice little wife from our last
34:28
episode, Peaky Blinders. She was giving that that fascist
34:32
wife in the last season. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:35
Just way too spooky. And yeah, yeah, wearing a yellow
34:39
pussy bow at the same time too. I loved how she was like
34:43
matching his uniform, which I actually did really like his
34:47
military uniform. I was like, you absolutely
34:51
commissioned a costume designer to like, design this before you
34:56
left Earth. Yeah, the whole thing is like
34:58
all their costumes are great costumes.
35:00
Like they do have a great sense of style.
35:02
It's just the way they do it compared to like when you
35:05
compare them to all the crew. It's what makes it so cringey.
35:08
And like the way everyone's like passively brainwashed, just like
35:12
a little. Another big aspect, we've been
35:15
talking about the elite, but then there's also the crew, and
35:18
Catherine George talked about the uniform.
35:20
She said we distinguish between the looks for the crew and the
35:23
agents. The agents, they were tactical
35:25
vests based on modern police uniforms.
35:28
We want them to look quite powerful.
35:30
There's a fabric called spacer, which is the bulletproof
35:33
material in these vests, but we decided to leave it exposed like
35:36
all the other elements. So again, it's a lot of exposed.
35:39
It almost kind of has like a Star Wars Imperial.
35:43
Yeah. But they're basing this on like
35:46
modern police uniforms too, which again, we're talking about
35:49
how it's a futuristic but they're pulling from.
35:52
Modern. Modern time.
35:53
Yeah, I like that. They did look very streamlined,
35:58
utilitarian, nice. You could really thank you.
36:03
You could really see those elements in the crew, in the
36:10
agents. It just looked so good.
36:14
Yeah, I, I, I feel like I would want to be a, a police officer
36:20
on this ship compared to all the other jobs.
36:23
Yeah, they seem to have it the best.
36:25
They do because I mean, how much crime is really happening on
36:28
this ship? Probably not too much.
36:30
Until there's like a a. Drug deal.
36:33
Yeah, a drug deal or a giant space rock that has has some
36:39
aliens in it. Another character I want to
36:43
bring up, I don't really have a fax on, but Stephen Young, who
36:47
plays Timo. I just want.
36:48
To say man. As someone who's watched The
36:51
Walking Dead, you know, since episode 1 when he was like a
36:54
little baby, I'm proud of him. He's just killing him.
36:57
He's doing great. He really is.
37:00
Every time I see him something, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's like
37:03
there you. Go.
37:04
It's like seeing your friend from, like, elementary school,
37:07
like killing it, you know, because he's just come such a
37:10
long way. I mean, he's always been
37:11
fantastic. Yeah, he's great in this film.
37:15
He's also like kind of like your jerk friend who you kind of
37:20
like, remember from high school for being a jerk and he run into
37:22
them later on in life and like, oh, gosh, this guy and.
37:25
They pull you into something. Pull you into something they're
37:28
wearing. He's wearing like, the
37:30
sunglasses, the aviators, and he thinks very highly of himself,
37:35
but you just kind of can't help but, like, get involved.
37:38
Just nice enough, Yeah, just nice enough to pull you in.
37:42
Right. And then you're like, oh, maybe
37:43
we are friends. And then you're at the bomb of
37:45
the icy cavern. And I'm like, well.
37:47
Bye, see you in your new body. I really liked his character
37:53
because he definitely he was wearing everything everyone else
37:57
wore, but it always looks just like a little bit cooler.
38:00
He had like a Top Gun quality to him.
38:03
Which? He does like fly one of the
38:04
ships, so that makes sense. But yeah, he has like a aviator
38:07
looked at him. It's just slightly different
38:11
enough to be like the aviator. I don't think this will be done
38:16
without talking about the cute creepers, the little spooky
38:21
creatures on this ice planet. So visual effects had worked up
38:27
some of the key creeper moments and movements very early in the
38:30
process for the puppeteer team. I love puppets, so of course
38:39
lots of visual effects. That definitely did happen, but
38:41
some of them were created with puppets so the VFX were done so
38:45
they could understand intent and the movement, and then they
38:48
would rehearse and mimic that accordingly with puppets.
38:51
So the puppeteer team worked with different types of puppets
38:54
to accommodate the varying size of the creepers. 3 puppeteers
38:58
skilfully operate the Mama Creeper, with the head puppeteer
39:02
wearing a chest rig to assist with the weight of the puppet
39:05
head. My God.
39:06
The Mama Creeper puppet was made by the team's accomplished
39:09
collaborators using stitches and glue and was assembled using a
39:13
variety of materials. So I would love, I hope that
39:18
ends up in the Academy Museum in the exhibit.
39:22
Oh my gosh, because this, maybe this is just because I feel like
39:26
through our lives we've really seen an evolution of visual
39:30
effects and I feel like this is one of the 1st movies I've seen
39:37
that is heavy on visual effects. There's a lot.
39:41
It looks so natural, even with these made-up creatures.
39:45
And I'm like, that makes so much sense that they were puppets.
39:47
Yeah, they look so real. It's and it's just like, to me,
39:51
I just have so much respect for like a filmmaker who still will
39:54
never forget like the practical elements to make it feel
39:57
realistic. Where of course there was like
39:59
1,000,000 creepers by the end. So visual effects came in
40:02
eventually and that's cool. You know, that's that's all
40:05
right. And I think when visual effects
40:09
uses practical and computer generated that I feel like
40:13
that's when it always looks its best.
40:17
And they did an incredible job with the creepers.
40:22
You and I in the lobby right after we were both like, we need
40:26
a plush version of the Creeper. And you know, I was like, well,
40:30
if there is one, we'll order like 10 of them just for this
40:33
podcast episode they have on the couch.
40:36
Unfortunately they're not available yet, but they do exist
40:38
because I found pictures of the cast with the creeper pleasure.
40:42
But unfortunately I think it's only available in Korea.
40:46
But there are websites where you can order them but I believe
40:49
they're scam websites people so do not call for those.
40:52
It is not available. Just wait until the film
40:55
distributor or Warner Brothers is like here, get your official
40:59
one. Don't buy something just by.
41:01
Googling yeah, Creeper plushies. I bet that was like the cast
41:05
gift at the wrap party and everybody was probably so
41:08
excited to get one. Yeah, I get it.
41:10
The temptation is real, and I bet you it is coming because I
41:14
hope so, because I want a couple.
41:16
I want one. And that actually brings us to
41:21
the end of Mickey 17. Short and sweet.
41:25
I had such a good time with this film.
41:27
Same. It was fun.
41:28
Me too. I felt like a nice, especially
41:31
after doing a whole month of like mobster whacking people and
41:35
fascism and and you know, fedoras and flat caps.
41:41
It was nice to leave planet Earth for a little.
41:45
Bit it it was good to like a good sci-fi romp if you will.
41:52
It was fun. So Elizabeth, what was your
41:55
stitch rating for Mickey 17? My stitch rating is a solid
42:00
four. Yeah, it it was fun.
42:04
It was pretty long. Yeah.
42:07
I think we both talked like there could have been some
42:09
editing choices. Oh, we could cut 30 minutes off
42:13
the top, Yeah. That could have been different.
42:17
I kind of wanted to know more about.
42:18
They did a really good job, like showing you like what Earth was
42:22
and the world of the ship, but it's like I wanted a little bit
42:25
more and but like visually it was stunning all well.
42:33
The acting was incredible direct.
42:36
Everything was great. Like they could have done more
42:39
because I'm so invested in it. I want more.
42:42
Almost felt like they were making this movie being like no
42:45
one's going to be into this. And then we very much were and
42:47
we're like no keep going. Like I could have did more of
42:50
this. I agree with you.
42:52
I I think my initial stutray when I left a three was like a
42:56
three. But then after I went home and
42:58
thought about it more, I got myself to a four.
43:01
So I considered that a four. Yeah.
43:04
I think when I said cut 3 minutes, I meant, like, the end.
43:07
I felt like when they were in the snow trying to figure out
43:11
what the creepers wanted, it was like starting to run a bit long.
43:15
Like, all right, let's, let's get to it, you know?
43:17
But overall, like, the themes were fantastic.
43:21
I loved the costumes. I thought everyone on the cast
43:24
did fantastic. There was no weak links or
43:27
anything. And I just think, as you know,
43:29
this new film for Bong Joon Ho after the huge success of
43:34
Parasite a couple years ago, this was such a great like, you
43:38
know, this man's got it. He does.
43:39
And he's going to be keep doing more great stuff.
43:42
And I'm just so excited. So that's a solid four.
43:46
Yeah, it was a good time. I I agree.
43:49
I fully agree. I also think we agree on some
43:52
other things. Hit it, Daniel the. 1 One
43:58
costume to rule them all. Spencer, What's our one costume
44:07
to rule them all? You know, I don't even remember
44:11
what moment. I think it's just when they're
44:13
exploring the snow planet. But I just love seeing Mickey
44:16
and his like, very disposable explorer.
44:19
Outfit. With, you know, the the head
44:22
wear and just seeing like all the tubing on the outside,
44:28
especially now like hearing Captain George's view on it all.
44:30
I just thought it was such a great seamless costume, very
44:34
like minimalist, but also like maximalist at the same time.
44:40
Also, I just love like the kind of like subtle tribute to the
44:43
thing, which I know you haven't seen, but that's I kept thinking
44:46
built that throughout the film. So yeah, it's just like it's
44:49
solid. Like that is like what I think
44:51
of when I think of Mickey 17's, that specific look.
44:55
Same. I, I think it's like the perfect
44:58
example of what she was trying to do, show what's on the inside
45:02
on the outside, have it streamlined.
45:06
And like you said, there's a lot on it, but it's all useful.
45:10
It's all to like keep them alive and keep them going.
45:15
But also, I don't know if it was like the color, the way the hat
45:19
falls on him. It felt very unique.
45:23
And I can totally understand why this is the costume that's
45:27
plastered all over the posters. Yeah.
45:30
And it just that's like where this movie is.
45:33
Like, that's. That's Mickey 17.
45:36
I also feel a little goofy too, you know, just like, it's like,
45:39
why are you wearing? Yeah, why are you wearing the
45:41
hat like that? You know, because I'm like
45:43
sticking out and it's like, oh, Mickey, like so.
45:46
Mickey, Mickey, Mickey. So clumsy and silly and goofy,
45:49
but you also, like, like we've talked about, feel kind of,
45:53
like, sad for him too. But then, like, very likeable,
45:56
too, though, you know, you just want to give him a hug, Mike.
45:58
It's all right, fellow. I'll help you with your hat.
46:01
So that was such a fun one. And if you all enjoyed that as
46:07
much, too, if you're maybe interested in starting our own,
46:09
like, crew when colonizing another planet, also, you can
46:13
e-mail us at artofcostume@gmail.com.
46:16
Yeah. Then we love to hear your ideas.
46:18
Yeah, Elizabeth, we had a good time getting into the sci-fi
46:23
Ness of it all and I think we might keep this train going for
46:26
at least another episode. Guys, this is not a drill.
46:30
We are we've been talking about doing having our this next guest
46:35
on since the beginning of time. Yeah, I.
46:38
Can't believe it's actually happening.
46:40
In our next episode, we're going to be joined by Costume Designer
46:44
A Cami Award-winning Costume Designer 2 Awards.
46:48
Ruth E Carter's be joining us to talk about her new film Sinners,
46:53
which was directed by Ryan Coogler.
46:55
So excited. I'm so excited.
46:57
I'm. So excited I'm.
46:59
I'm such a big Ruth Carter fan. I mean I.
47:01
You might be her biggest fan. I might be.
47:03
She's just the coolest. I just think her career is just
47:07
so inspiring. And I think her work on Black
47:10
Panther is just, you know, obviously won Oscars.
47:13
I've very well thought should have, and I'm excited to see
47:17
what she does next on Sinners. I mean, a horror film, you know
47:21
that like that's right up my alley.
47:23
So I'm so excited. Until then, I hope that you will
47:30
all subscribe to our YouTube so you can see our beautiful faces
47:35
on the big screen. What we're talking about.
47:38
We have all sorts of great photos that we put together for
47:41
Daniel to project on our beautiful green velvet backdrop.
47:46
Occasionally we have fun little props.
47:48
We did not have little creepers. But you know, who knows what
47:51
we'll have next time. Anyways, thank you all for
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listening. This has been fun and we'll see
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you in our next episode. Bye.
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Bye.