Latest / Talk Commerce / The Akeneo Factor: How Product Experiences Shape Retail's Future with Kristin Naragon
Transcript
- Brent Peterson (00:03.256) Welcome to this episode of Talk Commerce. Today I have Kristen Narragon from Akinio. Kristen, go ahead, do an introduction for yourself. Tell us your day-to-day role and maybe one of your passions in life. Kristin Naragon (00:15.651) OK, well, thanks for having me. Yes, my name is Kristin Aragon, and I'm the chief strategy and marketing officer here at Ekinio. We're the product experience company, or software company that has a product cloud offering at the core of Pym. And I've been here for goodness, it'll be four years in February, so next month. And a passion that I have, well, I just have to say the passion that I have. is two. So one is my kids who I draw and don't get enough time with and the other is fitness and right now the thing I can fit in is my Peloton so love mine. Brent Peterson (00:58.822) Awesome Brent Peterson (01:02.592) All right, so I am going to ask you a joke. And we are having a little bit of a technical lag, I can see. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to put it on low data mode. Kristin Naragon (01:10.096) Oh. Brent Peterson (01:19.108) We'll edit this part out, don't worry. Okay. So, yeah, your video was way behind your audio, but I think we're good now. So you can hear me all right? Kristin Naragon (01:20.856) Okay. Kristin Naragon (01:28.743) Hm. I totally can hear you. Brent Peterson (01:31.76) So I got you kind of left at Peloton. Were you still speaking after that? All right, good. All right, so before we get into talking more about exercise and Peloton and what's your goals for this year, we're actually gonna talk about is your product experience cloud, and AI and PIMS and things like that. But. Yeah. Kristin Naragon (01:37.239) Nope, that was it, in conclusion. Brent Peterson (01:56.816) Before we do that, I would like to tell you a joke and then all you have to do is say, should this joke be free or do you think at some point we could charge for it? So here we go. There's a special species of bird that is really good at holding stuff together. They're called Velcros. Kristin Naragon (02:16.308) I mean, should it be free or one day we'll we need to pay for this thing? It's a pretty great joke Brent Peterson (02:22.692) Yeah, right. Thank you. I know we had, for the listeners, we did have some technical, little technical problems that kind of ruined my punch line. But let's move on to actual content. How's that? Tell us, give us a little bit of background for those who don't know what a Kineo is, where it started. Give me the elevator pitch on it. Kristin Naragon (02:49.839) Yeah, so Akinio is the product experience company and what that means, actually, you know what? I could describe what that means and what we serve with an example. And maybe the listeners here will all be able to relate to some of you. We're going through a little renovation in the house right now, setting up a media room. And we have some components already. We have some stereo equipment, but. Of course, we need more. Apparently, there are ceiling speakers that are now the new rage that I did not know about. So my husband, in his search for compatible audio-visual equipment, does the normal thing, goes online, goes to different retailers to try to figure out what speakers, what other equipment, what wires are compatible with the stuff that we currently have and will look good and match. with everything else. And so, you know, he searches for specific attributes. He finds in one retailer some information, goes to another retailer because it's not quite enough for him to make a purchase and looks for extra information. Goes to a third finds that actually there's conflicting information, so he's really not sure if this one speaker is compatible with our set. goes eventually to the manufacturer's website, looks on their website. Of course, they don't sell direct to consumer, but they have information, not enough. So he sees that there's a chat and it goes to the customer support agents, asks the question, they come back with a lot more information that he's armed with to go back to the retailers and figure out if they have the right products. And he asks me why. Why do the retailers have different information? Some of it is in conflict on the same product lines, sold in different places. Why did the manufacturer not have it listed and easily discoverable by attribute, by category, by compatibility on their own website or the retailer's website? And the answer is that neither the manufacturer nor those retailers have a qu- Kristin Naragon (05:14.195) core PX strategy. They don't understand that the information that they're displaying, all of those moments where their product is trying to be discovered, being researched, understanding those compatibility attributes, all of those things are stored in a PIM. In our case, a product cloud that has a PIM at its core. So that... The manufacturer, in this case, if they had that strategy, could categorize and describe all of that information. Make sure that they had filters and entities to ensure product associations and compatibility for their products was very clear and very detailed. That the categories on the websites for those distributors, for those retailers, that they had all of the attributes needed to categorize the different types of products that would go with each other. All of these things. This is a clear indication of what is going wrong with certain businesses when they don't have a product experience strategy and what Ekinio uniquely solves. Brent Peterson (06:21.5) Okay, that's perfect. I like to also, like from a merchant standpoint, a good way to describe a PIM, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a good way to describe a PIM is having all your product data in one place that you can distribute to other channels. Like a super simple version of it, right? That you can store everything that you wanna talk about on your product, images, everything, language. descriptions and then you can publish that to different channels your POS your e-commerce your catalog your other store views things like that Kristin Naragon (07:03.515) your marketing channels, if you have a print catalog, if you are on social media, all of those things. Yeah, it's pretty interesting that there's been such a investment over the last few decades in the centralized customer record. Know everything about your customers, which is impossible. But. what is possible, what you can control and what you should be controlling is the product information. Having that core record, categorized, cataloged, complete, enriched to support all of those different destinations where your product information shows up and you can control that information. You own that information. Kristin Naragon (07:56.22) It's a bit of a lag, I think, in the market, really figuring out how to create amazing customer experiences by delivering on product information, thanks to a PIM. Brent Peterson (08:10.412) Yeah, so I think I love the term product experience. And I think a lot of businesses just maybe overlook the idea. What impacts have you seen where businesses have adopted this product experience strategy already? Like looking at businesses that have already done this, what sort of impacts have you seen from their product standpoint? Kristin Naragon (08:36.847) Sure. It's pretty fascinating actually, and it touches a lot of parts of the business. So overall, the return on investment that we see with our customers, it's pretty crazy actually. The return on investment for buying a PIM, leveraging the PIM, adopting it inside of your organization with a strategy. We commissioned a Forrester report that... yielded back the number for us and it was 365% ROI, which is pretty outrageous. But if you unpack that, you'll see why. We have a company like Rural King as a customer, and they are retailers of farm equipment and farm supplies in rural America. They increased the portfolio of new products that they sold by 50% by implementing a PIN, which is... Pretty substantial. They also had a 36% increase in sales during the first Black Friday after fully implementing their PIM. That's also pretty significant. Thanks to the PIM, they were able to, with COVID, they were able to pivot their business model real quickly to online purchase with in-store pickup. And that increased their online, that motion, the sales, by 34%. So this is like a huge sales lifts by implementing a PIM. We have Staples Canada that cut their time to market. So when they receive products from their suppliers and then put them on their sales channels, that time to market used to be 24 hours. They do it now in 15 minutes. So the lost sales opportunity of not being able to get your products in market quickly, it's huge, right? Like that's a big impact. Um, we have a fast fashion company in the UK, Boohoo, that can create up to 300,000 skews in a single day. This is like rapid product description, enrichment, and then display 300,000 products in a single day. Um, and then on the employee side, imagine that before a PIM, or with a, you know, Kristin Naragon (10:57.795) a PIM that's not well suited for business adoption. We've got people who are doing a lot of workarounds and manual searches and manual completions and sharing of files, the classic Excel spreadsheets. So it's pretty judgerous work. It's not fun. There's high employee turnover and there's a lot of wasted time. And so we've got a company called Archima that saved 2.5 million euros by freeing up freeing up 8,557 days of employee time, which is significant. So a lot of really great savings and employee satisfaction and reduced returns, increased sales, faster time to market, a lot of impacts. for implementing a product experience strategy. Brent Peterson (11:57.032) Um, if, if I'm a CMO or I'm a marketing leader and I know I need a PIM for my e-commerce environment, um, and let's just say that it's a company that's growing, they're adding multiple channels, uh, but let's just say their CFO doesn't believe in it or doesn't know about it. What, what, what do you do to help them understand the need for it and how that benefit you, you gave us some good ROI examples. Kristin Naragon (12:26.588) Mm. Brent Peterson (12:27.352) Is there tactics that you can give to your marketing person who knows they need it, but they'll also need to sell it to the leadership team? Kristin Naragon (12:38.467) Yeah, quite a few, actually. So we've worked with some companies to make the broader case for impact on the business. So for sure, the marketing department, the people in charge of positioning the products, are absolutely a stakeholder here. But if that person also goes and finds the head of IT, the CIO, the CTO, And if that CIO CTO has a broad view of the different stakeholders and what those activities are that they're doing in their silos. So let's say the IT team is getting requests from the e-commerce team. They're getting requests from the marketplaces team. The team that is distributing to third party retailers and distributors. all with similar. Kristin Naragon (13:39.699) pain points around help me to consolidate this data, help me to map all of these sources, like from the ERP system or from different suppliers, and put them into one single place so that I can get it to my siloed channel. That's another stakeholder, that CIO, CTO, that's going to benefit from reduced friction and accelerated time to market. by implementing a PIM. So it's gathering stakeholders. And if you have multiple brands, multiple departments, all of those stakeholders have a PIM problem. If there are products to sell, there is a PIM that's needed. I would say the first thing is really gathering all of those various different stakeholders that you can find to help bolster the case. That's one. Two, absolutely leverage some of those ROI reports that we have. We also have a product experience strategy self-assessment tool that you can take free at kinio.com and that also helps to build the case for A, where you are in your product experience strategy journey, let's say, and what you could do, like quick tips and tricks, rich tips and tricks, I'd say. to increase and improve that PX experience and the impact it will have on the business. Brent Peterson (15:13.333) I like where you went there. I think that a lot of times, all the C-level people don't quite, maybe they don't understand the intricacies of what a marketing team wants, what the technology team wants. What do you tell them? Do you have a strategy to help build the bridge between the technology team and the marketing team to help them understand some of those cost savings? Kristin Naragon (15:45.079) Yeah, I honestly, a lot of it lies in those examples from our customers. And so we do have, depending on the stakeholder, a lot of different examples of champions from our customers, from different parts of the organization who benefited from implementing. So we have a a well-known B2B company, primarily B2B company. They have heavy equipment. They manufacture and sell heavy equipment, a lot of it for farming, a lot of it for construction and manufacturing. And they also had a smaller but higher growth consumer business. And you imagine all the different stakeholders there. There's the reseller business. There's the parts and fitment business. new product manufacturing business, there's the consumer business, lots of different stakeholders, and they needed to have content for Instagram. They were moving into making sure they had product information on Instagram so that they could not only reach consumers, but also show in context a more friendly experience to businesses as well. And we have those stakeholders coming together to say, hey, this is a chaotic, time-consuming drag on our business. And we have a lot of those stories that we share with our prospects to make sure that they understand that, yes, you might be, the first use case might be, hey, I'm launching or changing my e-commerce front end. And so now's a good time to swap out my PIM or start with a PIM. But that's just step one, phase one. And I know that I will help the business streamline so many other go-to-market motions. Brent Peterson (17:53.432) I want to key in on the point of using Instagram and I think that a lot of marketers, and I shouldn't make this assumption, but a lot of them don't put together the fact that product information is as important as content information and your content is driven from product. Just a couple minutes on how important that is to get that product information out to content to Kristin Naragon (18:06.603) Mm. Kristin Naragon (18:10.003) It sure is. Brent Peterson (18:18.992) to platforms, blogging, articles, PRs, anything that some marketer would do to generate content. It all starts with a product, right? And I think that's always overlooked. Kristin Naragon (18:32.979) It is sadly always overlooked. I think the number one issue that we have in helping these companies is awareness of that problem. And, you know, we see we had a lot of great growth this year and a pretty tough buying climate for software in general. And I think it's part and parcel to some of the information we've been able to get out about, you know, just that impact. of implementing this strategy on the business to help save it, if things are going bad and we're all in a tough economic climate, but also to help growth and help accelerate growth in good times and maybe not so good times. And yes, you never know where your customers are going to go, where they're going to start their journey, where they're going to end their journey. What those? Touch points are that guide them through to conversion. And actually, it's not even as important to convert these days as it is to keep the customer and not have them return the product. The impact of product returns on a company as well as the environment is just, it's devastating. It's devastating for all of us. And so making sure that the product information that is displayed along that journey, no matter where those customers happen to go and look, making sure it's consistent, making sure that it's complete so that like my husband who's going in shopping, if he buys this, you know, a wire to connect the dots here for our media room, and it doesn't, it actually isn't compatible, he's returning that and he had a bad customer experience, he might not ever go back to that retailer. because it all could have been solved with this product information solution. So it seems so obvious, I guess. And sometimes the things that seem so obvious are often overlooked. Brent Peterson (20:47.232) Yeah, I agree with that 100%. So it's one of the things that we've been talking about last year. And I don't know if our listeners were aware, but there's this thing called AI that's come out. And I'm sure that it's crossing paths with other technology in our industry. Kristin Naragon (21:05.236) Oh yeah. Brent Peterson (21:13.852) Tell us a little bit about where you see 2024 going, both for the commerce world and the corporate world, but specifically in this product experience world and the use of AI. Kristin Naragon (21:25.955) Yeah. Well, so much to talk about here. That's fun. So I'll start with the context of how AI is working its way into product experience management. And for us, it starts with the launch of our app store inside of our PIM at the beginning of 2023. This was a market first for PIM applications to have an in-application app store. We did this to bring integrations and extensions a lot closer, like a click away, let's say, to our customers, give them rapid access to innovation from our partners to be able to build custom extensions of their own inside of a SaaS platform. And so this really was the platform that enabled innovation around AI. We had about. over the course of this past year, around about a dozen applications that were developed leveraging AI to help different parts of the product experience management process. After we took a look over the course of the year of where these dozen or so solutions were falling in, it was three categories. One was the onboarding and the enriching of product information. So. You are either getting information from different sources internally, or you're getting it externally, or a combination of the two. And you have to merge and match and enrich, complete, error-proof all of that information, lots of manual tasks there. AI is being applied smartly to that and machine learning. So that's like phase one. Phase two is like the hot topic of generative AI. And The most common applications that we saw in this generative AI content enrichment piece was descriptions, so like romance descriptions you provide the prompt of the attributes and your brand qualities and descriptions and outputs a prompt for your romance copy for your products. Kristin Naragon (23:38.075) That's the second one. And then the third category of AI-powered applications that we saw for our product was language translation and localization, which is a really hard challenge to solve where AI comes in handy. And so what this empowered us to do was really to see, hey, which of these solutions here is having the most staying power. customers? What are the hardest problems that our customers are trying to solve and leverage AI to accelerate? Which ones do they trust? I think AI is inherently, I don't know, fraught might be too much of a word, but inherently prone to maybe some mistrust around hallucinations. Kristin Naragon (24:33.787) and making up information that is incorrect. And so with that learning that we had from the customer adoption of these 12 applications, we saw that first problem of real core gathering and enriching of information, cleansing, collection, categorization, was A, super, super hard, super manual, and actually a really good problem for AI to solve for. So we acquired one of those applications, a company called Unifi, earlier this summer. And the goal of this acquisition is obviously to more closely embed that into our core product, but also then to take the learnings of all of the other solutions that we have and see how we can embed it and embed AI and ML into the various different. native workflows that we have at a Kineon in our software offering. Brent Peterson (25:36.656) Talk a little bit about how the existing workflows help the users using AI. And I'd like to key in on the fact that AI doesn't always give us the perfect content. It usually, it always needs like a human to look at it to make sure that it's correct. Tell us a little bit about how that workflow plus AI helps though, help to expedite that Kristin Naragon (25:55.186) Yeah. Brent Peterson (26:05.392) content getting to live. Kristin Naragon (26:07.315) Sure. Yeah, so actually I'll start with the problem that you're surfacing. I was listening to, you can't get away from AI, I guess. I was listening to NPR. They were doing an interview with Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft. It has Bing as a product, leveraging AI. And the interviewer before he sat down and started talking with Satya asked Bing, the Microsoft search engine, to provide him with a couple of things he would never know about Satya. And it came back with a few things, and one of which was Nadella has actually published a book of poems called To Shorten the Road. And Nadella Satya was like, that's completely fabricated, like completely made up, not true. Which, okay, fine, maybe that's silly, there's not a lot of impact there. What's the impact, right? Like what's the negative, the downside of that? Not too dramatic. But we had a recent customer advisory board session where we heard from several customers. And I'll give you examples of real world impacts where bad product information generated from these AI models can really serve the business in a bad way. So one of our B2B customers sells everything that a business needs, from desktop computers and workstations to mobile phones and phone plans, printers, projectors, things like that. So they started leveraging the off-the-shelf, you know, generative AI solutions and the information that came back on some of their products, you know, they get information from suppliers and a lot of it's incomplete. And so they're looking to have it fill in incomplete information among other things. And they got back things like for a product, listing storage. Kristin Naragon (28:11.867) of 64 gigabytes instead of what it actually was, which was 256 gigabytes, because the AI model looked for a similar product and just filled in the blanks. It looked for storage, the attribute storage, similar product, filled in the blank. This is bad, right? This would result in a lot of frustration from a business buyer purchasing thousands of phones. One example. a really much more, let's say, human impact was from a company that is a chemical distributor company. So big, big manufacturing of different types of chemicals, selling of different types of chemicals for health care industry, for manufacturing industries. So. They also used an off-the-shelf model and started reviewing right before they implemented it. The recommendations that were provided to fill in those blanks, create the content, they would have, A, probably gotten sued by putting that out there in the marketplace. But also it would have been like most probably resulted in death, right? Like mixing the wrong chemicals. is not, it's bad. And so the impacts here for businesses and getting this wrong and trusting AI is hard, right? Like it's pretty darn significant. It's not like a silly made-up anecdote about a famous person. And so... What we have also noticed is that when you incorporate the AI and the models into a workflow that allows for ease of checking with employees, humans, right, like introducing a checking system, which is what we have with Unifi, right? So the combination of the product of Unifi has built in Kristin Naragon (30:28.879) native, basically a checkpoint in every single workflow that we have now to make sure that you can check a certain amount, a certain percentage, let's say, of the information that came in, and then it pulls off a few more for you to check, right? So it might be uncertain about a few, and then it pulls in a few more in order for them to really reinforce the model. And so having automated workflows that help with the human intervention and checking is a really powerful sanity checkpoint for businesses before unleashing AI into the product experience strategies. Brent Peterson (31:15.521) And just keying in the workflows a little bit again, the workflows are customizable inside of a Kinio, right? You can add, remove to the workflow. Kristin Naragon (31:26.895) They're highly customizable, especially in the all around. So who can have access to it? What parts of the product record are allowed to be edited or reviewed or modified in any certain way? So highly customizable for the business need and the sort of business workflows that you have. And in addition, with now this native introduction of AI, those checkpoints that are coming in alongside. Brent Peterson (32:08.812) Yeah, that was such a great example of why you can't depend on AI. I mean, it's sort of like hiring a really good sixth grade writer, right, who's going to make stuff up if they don't know what they're doing, right? I mean, AI can be certainly seen as that, or they could even be that arrogant PhD student who, hey, I don't know this, but I'm not going to be wrong. So I'm going to just throw something out there. I love what you said about the poet. that AI is sometimes gonna give you those same type of results. And having that, I like the workflows inside of Akinio because I love the fact that you can customize it and make it what you need for your team to make it. And you could, having people look at specific items in that process to make sure that content is what, number one, it's correct, right? But then number two, is that what's gonna Kristin Naragon (33:05.178) Yes. Brent Peterson (33:08.484) what the client would like to listen to it see as well. Because I think if we do go back to AI and we just start leaning on it completely and letting it run it pretty soon, you're developing content that's for other AI bots to write, to listen to and read about this content that a human doesn't really care about. Kristin Naragon (33:29.371) Right, exactly. Oh gosh, yeah, that's so meta. Right, what is the content that we're gonna have in the world someday if it's all just generated and fabricated out of nothing? Brent Peterson (33:42.924) Yeah, good. So, you know, look, I would like to just kind of close out with what I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot, but some of the predictions that you see coming up now in this next year. What what's the big thing that you think is going to happen in terms of product experience and integration into all these other systems that are out there. Kristin Naragon (34:04.611) Yeah, yeah, it is. It's a good question. I would say, you know, obviously, I think AI is going to continue to have impacts here and we continue to invest and understand thoughtfully how this can improve, right? I mean, I think this is, we have a core business problem that we are solving and it's like you said, it's having a centralized place, core record for product information, getting it out to anywhere it needs to go, and then full circle optimizing it to make sure that it's having the impact you need it to have. And I think making sure that we can leverage AI in smart ways to optimize that and keep improving the really great product experience that we offer in our application. I think that's definitely something we're going to be focused on in the coming year. And I'm hopeful that there will be better awareness of a smart investment in making product experience strategy a C-suite initiative. We've got We actually have so many customers coming to our upcoming conference in March. I'll plug that. Who are talking about just that, right? Making it a C-suite discussion. We'll have one of our customers, the CEO of carparts.com, coming and talking about that. Why this is an imperative strategy for their business. And I think that's, I'm hopeful, let's say, that is an unlock that a lot of customers and a lot of companies with products to sell will see in this year, is investing in a product experience strategy. Brent Peterson (36:02.616) I want to close out with a question and maybe sort of a thoughtful or a wish that I would have. I think a lot of people look at AI and they automatically think of generative AI and developing content. But another great tool for AI and machine learning is refining data, looking at data and seeing what's performing well. Do you see a complete cycle where... somebody would start with their product descriptions inside of Akinio. It's gonna go to some other platform like Shopware, get fulfilled. You'll see that fulfillment inside of Google Analytics or Adobe Analytics or whatever tool you're using. And then coming back to Akinio to give some suggestions on different ideas for better conversions on that content. A, is that already happening? And B, is that something that Kristin Naragon (36:54.211) It slips. Brent Peterson (36:57.724) that you see that sort of full circle for product experience. Do you see that happening inside of a Kinio? Kristin Naragon (37:02.557) Yeah. Yeah, you've been listening, I think, to our strategy pitches inside Erekenio. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that we know for certain is that the product experience is driven by much more than what is today solved for inside of a PIM alone. A PIM. A PIM has a very specific application and use case and business need that it's solving for. And we are building around the PIM as part of our product strategy to make sure that all of the components that are served on any given product detail page, and those things include some of what you talked about, like the availability of those products, the price of those products, especially if they change. depending on availability or season or whatnot. User generated content, making sure that you're able to understand how people are talking about your products and then maybe that also inputs back into your PIMV to better describe them in different ways to resonate more with the information you learn from user generated content. All of those things that show up on a product detail page, that's product information. and it deserves analytics in order to be able to understand that interaction between us as business buyers or consumers, that information and our purchase and return behavior. And so absolutely for certain, that's part of our strategy is to make sure that we can seamlessly connect and just analyze and provide recommendations for Kristin Naragon (38:59.435) all of those parts of the product information and product experience process. Brent Peterson (39:04.932) That's awesome, thank you. And I can't wait to see what's in the future now. It's exciting. So you're gonna be at, you're coming up, you have some conferences you're going to attend and Ekinia is gonna be at a lot of those, especially this spring as the conference cycle comes around. But tell us, as we close out, I give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug and you're gonna plug, I think you're gonna plug your conference in March, but tell us what you'd like to. Kristin Naragon (39:21.668) You know it. Brent Peterson (39:34.044) kind of end with today. Kristin Naragon (39:36.199) We try to be at a lot of places where any type of business buyer or consumer company is. And so one of the next ones is NRF in January. So we'll be there in full force. We've got a speaking session called the Secret to Decreasing Returns While Simultaneously Increasing AOV, CLV, and Overall Sales. So definitely a must attend session there at NRF. in New York, but then looking ahead into March, absolutely we have our customer and community conference. It's a Kinio Unlock, and you can register today. We've got a lot of great speakers coming to talk about product experience strategy and prioritizing it. Brent Peterson (40:25.761) Awesome and where is that? Kristin Naragon (40:28.115) Actually, we're taking it on tour. We're starting it in March in Boston. And then we go to the UK, Germany, and France in May. Brent Peterson (40:38.132) Awesome. Yeah, I was looking forward to that trip to Paris. So. Kristin Naragon (40:42.077) Yeah, we'll still be there. So coming over, it's in May, lovely time to visit Paris. Brent Peterson (40:45.756) Awesome. Kristin, it's been such a great conversation. We could have spent more time on AI, but I'm glad we had a lot of really good talking points on just on product experience and how important that is. I thank you so much for being here today. Kristin Naragon (41:01.831) Well, thanks for having me Brent. I've had a lot of fun. Brent Peterson (41:05.308) As one thing I forgot as we close out how did they get a hold of you and what if they what if they're? Super interested in a kenyo. What was I'm sorry. What was I thinking? Kristin Naragon (41:14.551) At Kinio.com, it's as simple as that. Please come visit us on our website, and you'll find we have actually a great resource page there, several pages deep, on AI for PX. If you want to learn more about what we've learned on how to apply AI in product experience management. Brent Peterson (41:33.968) Perfect, and I'll put all those in the show notes. Thank you so much. Kristin Naragon (41:37.171) Great, thank you.