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(Ep: 510) The Infrastructure Indie Authors Actually Need (And Nobody Talks About) · Storycomic Presents: Interviews with Amazing Storytellers and Artists

• 0:00
  Welcome to Story Comic Presents, where we interview amazing storytellers and artists.
• 0:21
  This is Episode 510. I'm your host, Barney Smith of StoryComic.com, and we're excited
• 0:27
  to have back with us, the award-winning and internationally-celebrated author, Melissa
• 0:33
  Addy.
• 0:34
  Hello. It's so nice to be back.
• 0:39
  So we were just talking before the show started. You were on in 2022.
• 0:43
  Yes.
• 0:44
  Yeah, so basically every time there's a Winter Olympics, you come on the show.
• 0:49
  Yeah, I specialize. That's my thing.
• 0:54
  To this day, I still remember the conversation we had, and we were talking about your books,
• 1:00
  that you did these historical fiction books, and you were here to talk about From the Ashes,
• 1:06
  and the Coliseum series. I know you're here to talk a little bit about the alliance of
• 1:18
  independent authors.
• 1:19
  Independent authors, yeah.
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  Real quick, before we jump in, last time you were on, you were talking about that you're
• 1:26
  going to be working on Beneath the Waves, I believe, and you were just like, I was gobsmacked
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  to hear about all the different things, because these were based off of real things that the
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  Coliseum was doing, correct?
• 1:42
  Yeah, that's right. The idea was following the backstage team of the Coliseum, because
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  I thought, it's just not possible to put on games on the level you're talking about.
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  I mean, it is like Olympics level. It's not possible to do that without a very large backstage
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  team. So I started a series of set of four, and the idea was that each one would look
• 2:05
  at a different element. So it was fire, water, earth, air. So the first one had Pompeii blasting
• 2:13
  off, and there was a big fire in Rome at the time, while they're trying to inaugurate
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  the Coliseum. And then Beneath the Waves, they were flooding the Coliseum. That's extraordinary
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  that they even tried to do that, and sailing ships around on it, and all of that. Crazy.
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  And then, yeah, on bloody ground, they built a whole hyper gym below the arena, which is
• 2:38
  where they kept all these little dark tunnels, where they kept all the animals, and they
• 2:43
  had amazing lift systems that would bring you up into the arena. If you've seen Gladiator,
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  then you'll know, suddenly trap doors open and things arrive out of them. That's because
• 2:53
  there's a lift system underneath. And that was one of the things that made me think about
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  it, was, who's doing, like, somebody's watching that and going, release the tiger, now! You
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  know, you have to get the timing right, otherwise it doesn't look good at all.
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  Right.
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  Yeah, and then the Flight of Birds was the last one, and they put an awning over the
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  Coliseum. But they did extraordinary things. They used to spray the crowds with perfumed
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  water, and some of the stuff you read, you just think, I'm not sure we could do that
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  now, let alone then.
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  Yeah, I remember. I mean, because you were talking about the research you were doing
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  on those, when you were here talking about From the Ashes last time. But you've been
• 3:36
  putting out books after books. How many books have you been putting out per year now? This
• 3:40
  is amazing.
• 3:41
  I've been doing this 11 years, and I have 20 books, of which 15 are novels. The others
• 3:50
  are non-fiction and one children's book. But yeah, mostly historical fiction.
• 3:57
  Wow. Yeah. And I think the Regency series, the Regency, that was already out.
• 4:03
  Those are the new ones, yeah.
• 4:04
  Those are the new ones. The Moroccan Empire series was already out, though, when we talked,
• 4:08
  right?
• 4:09
  Yes, that was correct, yeah. So I think the ones that you haven't seen were the last Coliseum
• 4:13
  ones and then the Regency series, yeah.
• 4:16
  Okay. All right. Wow. Okay. Now, so you are someone that wears many hats.
• 4:24
  I am.
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  And you sent me an email, and you're talking about this organization that you're part of
• 4:31
  called the Alliance of Independent Authors. And I know my readers and viewers are, like,
• 4:38
  on the edge of their seats wanting to learn more about this, because a lot of them are
• 4:42
  independent authors. And they, I'm sure, are very curious about what the Alliance of Independent
• 4:48
  Authors is all about. So do you want to kind of give us a rundown on what the organization
• 4:54
  does?
• 4:55
  Sure. Yeah. So it's a global association for self-published authors, and their focus is
• 4:59
  ethics and excellence in self-publishing. So they put out a lot of information to try
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  and support indie authors, sort of all through the stages. So they have things like a directory
• 5:11
  of self-publishing services that they've vetted for quality and value to make sure that you're
• 5:16
  not getting scammed and that you're not paying crazy sums of money for something that wasn't
• 5:21
  good value, actually, and talking you through the different stages. Because if you're brand
• 5:26
  new to self-publishing, I mean, when I was brand new to it, you know, people go, oh,
• 5:30
  when you get an editor, and then you get a cover designer, and then you're thinking,
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  I don't know where you get these people. I don't know how you ask them to do what you're
• 5:39
  supposed to do. I don't know anything about it. So they kind of talk people through all
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  those stages. And then they do a lot of work for their members. And part of that is they
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  have a kind of campaigns area, if you like. So trying to encourage awards and festivals
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  and things like that to open up their doors to indie authors as well. There's a lot less
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  snobbery now, but there used to be an awful lot of snobbery around indie authors, and
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  that's kind of changing over time. And that's something that I've worked with them on. Yes,
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  I spend a little bit of my week doing work with them. And so, yes, that's part of what
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  I do. One of the hats.
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  And so what would you say the problem that Ally was trying to solve by building this?
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  So the organization as a whole started back in, whoa, 2012. And they really wanted to,
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  there was nobody for self-published authors. But more recently, they've launched the Indie
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  Author Bookstore, which is so exciting. So this is like a showcase of all their members'
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  books. So there are thousands of books on there across all different genres. And it
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  really came about sort of a number of different things that were happening in self-publishing,
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  all of which that bookstore kind of draws from and contributes to, if you like. So one
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  of the things that the Alliance of Independent Authors does is it works to draw more attention
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  to indie authors, but also draw more attention to what's happening in self-publishing. So
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  they put out a lot of self-publishing data every year. So they run their own indie author
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  income survey. So they did that the first time in 2023, and they found out that actually
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  indie authors earn more than traditionally published authors. So that was a very interesting
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  piece of data. And also, they've got other data across the years. So for example, things
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  like Kalytics, who are a really interesting data analyst, looked at how much indie authors
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  were present, if you like, in the general industry. So they were 50% of Amazon's top
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  400, and they were being rated by readers as equal in quality on the star system. So
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  that sort of data is then something that Ally goes about sharing more widely and trying
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  to draw more attention to. Actually, you may not even know you've read indie authors, but
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  clearly you have, because they're taking up such a big chunk of how many books are being
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  read at the moment. So that was sort of an element. Also, more authors are starting to
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  sell direct. So that's been an interesting thing, because the bookstore allows each author
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  to set whichever purchase link they want. So it's not a selling site. It's more like
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  a window shopping, and then at the point where you choose to purchase, the purchase link
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  is set by the author so they can go through to whichever retail site they want or to their
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  own website. And that's been something really interesting changing over the last two years.
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  So the first time I saw the data for it, there was 12% of authors were selling direct. So it
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  was obviously kind of outliers that were being quite brave about it. And then now it's 30% of
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  authors are selling direct and another 30% intending to over the next year. So that became
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  quite an important thing for the bookstore was to make sure that people could put their own links
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  on there if they wanted to their own to selling direct if they wish. So that was something
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  that we wanted built in there. Yeah, so it's just sort of trying to reflect the fact that
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  indie authors are just so much a part of the publishing industry now that whole early snobbery
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  has really started disappearing. But also, still, you cannot go on to any of the big
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  retailers and press a button to say, I only want to see the indie authors. You can't do
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  that. So having a whole lot, thousands of them all in one place is quite exciting thing to be
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  able to look at. Right, because it's like in a way that the publishing world has always been
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  gatekeepers to what they would consider quality. But now with the advent of independent media,
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  for instance, where people will now listen to music that is like that's indie created,
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  people will now read Substack, which is basically like a version of independent
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  journalists are now putting out their own stuff. It just seems to be it's just like
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  there's the democratization of being able to have creativity has made it easier people. And now,
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  like you say, compared to where it was in 2012, fast forward 14 years, is a huge change in the
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  acceptability of what people consider themselves as indie authors now.
• 10:48
  Yeah. And I think part of that, so one of the other things we saw was that authors under 45,
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  it always used to be self-publishing was plan B. Like you tried to be trad published. And then if
• 11:01
  you couldn't do that, then plan B was self-publishing. And actually, for young authors
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  now that has become plan A, because they just go straight to that. And I think part of that
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  is coming from they see content creation in other fields. So YouTube is like TV to them.
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  They don't have a kind of status thing to it. They don't go, oh, well, that is higher than
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  that. They're like, same thing. And like you say, indie music, indie journalism,
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  all of those things. And so to younger authors and readers, I think they just see that as the
• 11:33
  same kind of thing. Why wouldn't you self-publish? It's on a par with those. So that's been
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  interesting to see that those younger authors are very keen to self-publish.
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  Well, and it's when I'm looking at this as well, and I'm on the website here,
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  and it's the AllianceIndependentAuthors.org. And as you say, this is worldwide. People from all
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  over the world are part of this organization. Yeah.
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  And my question to you, originally I was going to ask when I was doing the research,
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  is like how easy or complicated is it to go through the member bookstore? But it's super
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  easy. It literally looks like a mini version of Amazon. You can click on different searches,
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  adventure, children's fiction, arts and crafts, poetry. Yeah. LGBTQ plus themes,
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  disability stories, grief and well-being, society, creative art. There's a lot.
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  There's a lot. There's a lot. It's very much designed for readers. It's designed for you
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  to browse and find books to read. And just exactly like you say, any big retailer,
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  it's exactly that kind of experience, we hope. So I'm glad you find it easy to look through.
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  Yeah. Because initially, we always had information on our authors if you wanted
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  to book them for festivals or whatever, but we did not have their books in a readable format,
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  in a nice browsable format, and they are now. So that's been really fun to watch.
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  Also, there's been a lot of things in the press about Gen Z readers actually being very key
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  which is nice to know that the newest readers are very keen readers, but that they are looking
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  for diverse stories. They want more diverse stories. They want diverse stories. They want
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  diverse characters. They want a sort of wider range of experiences from their reading. And I
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  think that because you don't have those sort of slightly tighter gatekeepers who are going,
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  only this trend, only this trend, you get that broader range of storytellers and stories as a
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  result, which is really nice to see. And so where is this in relationship to,
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  say, hybrid publishers? So hybrid publishers, I'm always a little wary of them,
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  only because, no, this is not fair to all of them, but often people who know very little
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  about self-publishing and are just coming into it will be approached by publishers who say,
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  oh, I am a publisher and I just think your book is so wonderful and fantastic. You pay me $5,000
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  and I will publish it. And then they don't understand how that system's working at all,
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  and they think they have been published down the traditional route. What's actually happening is
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  they are paying to be self-published, which would be completely fine, to my mind, if the person
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  doing that was very upfront and went, look, I offer the publishing services to help you get
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  self-published because it can be stressful and confusing the first time you do it. Therefore,
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  you pay me, I'll organize it, but you are essentially self-publishing. And I would
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  prefer there to be that clarity. What tends to happen, sometimes there are some good quality
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  hybrid publishers who are publishing traditionally on one side and they also offer publishing
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  services and they treat the people properly and they don't try to scam them. But sometimes that
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  overlaps a little bit. So I'm always a little bit wary because sometimes I meet people and they
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  have been very badly treated by people purporting to be publishers. And I just kind of go, I would
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  prefer you understood what happened there. And you can be self-published and pay for all the
• 15:47
  self-publishing services, but be better treated. Well, hey there, if you're enjoying our podcast,
• 15:58
  don't forget to subscribe on YouTube or leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast
• 16:03
  platform. Your support means the world to us and helps us keep this show going. We love hearing
• 16:09
  from you. So any feedback is welcome. And thank you for being a part of our podcast family and
• 16:15
  for all your support. It truly means a lot to us. One of the caveats to saying independent author
• 16:25
  is that there is a preconception that it is going to be lesser quality as compared to a published
• 16:33
  work. So how do you, when it comes to being a member, and this is amazing because you just
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  mentioned too, bottom tier I've seen when I have hybrid publishers send me some stuff and they're
• 16:47
  questioning questions, I look at their rate and it's like, bottom tier is like three grand. At a
• 16:53
  minimum, it's going to cost you $3,000 to go through that. But here, and this is amazing,
• 17:00
  pulling it up, to become a member here, it is only $119 a year. Or if you're an author,
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  about $150 a year. Now, talk to us a little bit about what you would get because that is a fraction
• 17:18
  of the cost it would be if you actually went through a hybrid publisher to do this work.
• 17:23
  Yeah, so then they're not going to actually publish your book. That is your membership
• 17:28
  price. However, what you have then is you have access to, like I said, the list of self-publishing
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  services. So that's where you would get yourself a good editor. You would find yourself a good
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  cover designer and you will know that those have been vetted for the quality but also for the
• 17:46
  value so that you're not being wildly overpriced for something, which I think is a really important
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  part of that. And I always say to people, look, if you have the membership, then that will allow
• 18:00
  you to look for those self-publishing services and know that somebody has checked that for you
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  and made sure that the people in that list are good quality. So that's an important part of it.
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  And then being talked through all of those different stages. So they put out so much
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  information. They have podcasts and they have blogs as well and they'll talk you through all
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  those different stages. And at the beginning, it can be quite overwhelming if you don't
• 18:30
  know anything about self-publishing. But actually, the basic process, if you have the
• 18:35
  right people in places and the right tools in places, will just talk you through that. So
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  the Alliance does have a little leaflet that talks you through how to do it absolutely for
• 18:48
  free, which is not entirely what we recommend because you should put some money into it to
• 18:55
  make sure that you have a good quality product. But if you were absolutely zero budget, then it
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  talks you through how to do it for free. And then at a certain point where you make a little bit of
• 19:05
  money to retrace your steps and add in better quality services there to upgrade the book.
• 19:13
  Because there is no reason why a self-published book cannot be just as good quality as a
• 19:20
  traditionally published book. Because you can bring in editors who are working for big publishers.
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  You can bring in cover designers. All of those things can be brought in to work with you.
• 19:31
  Self-publishing is always a bit of a misnomer, really. You generally end up working with a
• 19:36
  group of different creative people. The benefit of being a self-publisher is that
• 19:42
  you're in charge of it all. You are. It appeals to the control freak in me.
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  But it's quite a nice thing. People sometimes feel a little bit worried about it or whatever,
• 19:56
  but I say actually a lot of it is fun. It's fun to work with a cover designer and talk to them
• 20:01
  about what you're expecting and what the market expects and what could we do here. And then
• 20:07
  they'll show you designs. That's an exciting thing to do. And you can learn tools like the
• 20:13
  software for formatting the interiors. And that's quite exciting because suddenly you realize,
• 20:18
  I can put images across the front of each chapter and things like that. It's fun.
• 20:24
  So one of the biggest, biggest expenses for authors is finding a good quality editor.
• 20:31
  Yes. Now where does Ally help out with that?
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  So they have in their directory, they have lists which include editors because that's,
• 20:43
  as you say, that's one of the first things that at the moment where it stops being just you,
• 20:48
  that's probably the first person that's going to come in and work with you is an editor.
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  So you can have structural editors who are really looking at the plot or how the whole
• 20:58
  shape of the book hangs together. Even for nonfiction, there's how is that structure
• 21:02
  developing. You can have line editors who are looking more at the grammar and how you're
• 21:10
  writing something. And then obviously you have proofing. And at that point we're just
• 21:14
  only concerned with the typos. It is an amazing, like I'm looking at,
• 21:20
  like I say, I'm just amazed about how affordable it is for authors to be a member of this.
• 21:29
  Talk to us a little bit about how the process goes. Do you vet authors at all to be members
• 21:36
  or how does that work? So associates come in and they
• 21:41
  haven't yet published a book. So they are getting ready to publish a book. So they come in like
• 21:48
  that. So everybody's welcome. They come in and we try and give them the best quality advice and
• 21:56
  guidance on that. Then there's an author level where they are, the authors, that means you've
• 22:03
  already published a book or more books. Some of them have huge back catalogs. So when I started
• 22:09
  talking about the bookstore, I was kind of encouraging some of the authors to make sure
• 22:14
  their books were on there. And I'm going, so how many books do you have? And they're like, well,
• 22:19
  I have 73 that I need to upload. And I'm like, oh wow, okay. So huge back catalogs. I always thought
• 22:25
  I had a decent back catalog, but they're just way above me. So that's the authors. And then
• 22:31
  Ally also has a level which is authorpreneurs. And the authorpreneurs, they are vetted because
• 22:39
  they have a particular level that they need to have reached. So that is where they've made a
• 22:44
  certain level of sales. So that is every year. So that is to, they're a level that would require
• 22:55
  more input on certain things. So it's 50,000 book sales in the past two years or equivalent thereof
• 23:03
  if it's KU or whatever. So they are vetted for that particular level. Yes.
• 23:10
  Okay. And so how do you help out? Because the other thing too I hear a lot about independent
• 23:17
  authors is, I don't know how to market this. Like I love my book, but I'm a writer. I'm not
• 23:25
  a marketer. How does Ally help with that? So a lot of their material, because a lot of people,
• 23:33
  they really worry about the self-publishing bit. Actually, once you've gone through the process of
• 23:37
  self-publishing your first book, that process then becomes a lot easier because you've done it once,
• 23:43
  you understand the process. It then becomes almost entirely about the marketing because
• 23:47
  that's the thing that you've then got to get your head around. And marketing is one of those,
• 23:51
  how long is a piece of string things? So there is what Ally's really good at doing, I think,
• 23:57
  is kind of sifting, seeing the wood for the trees a bit. So they're very clear about certain
• 24:03
  things that are really useful for all authors to implement. So things like a website, a mailing
• 24:08
  list, those kinds of things. And then sort of also introducing authors as role models who
• 24:16
  are kind of outliers who might do really unusual things and unusual approaches to their marketing.
• 24:21
  But we were talking about this recently, they're not people to imitate necessarily,
• 24:29
  but it is about thinking, how do I feel comfortable marketing? What sort of things
• 24:34
  do I enjoy doing? So like me, I like watching movie trailers at the cinema. I would happily
• 24:40
  watch hours of just the trailers. I think that's really fun. So I make little book trailers.
• 24:45
  You know, if it's something that you're really into, then you're much more likely to be better
• 24:52
  at it with the marketing. So there's some really fun people on BookTok and Instagram and things
• 24:57
  like that who kind of dress up and do little crazy character things to sell their books.
• 25:02
  And that's because they like dressing up and doing character things. It's really fun.
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  And so I think what Ally's good at doing is both sharing the kind of solid, reliable marketing
• 25:12
  things, but also drawing attention to those kind of quirkier marketing ideas so that you can see,
• 25:18
  all right, that could be a way of doing it. Or what do I enjoy doing? What could I bring to
• 25:23
  the marketing? And so what would you say then is like, you kind of mentioned a little bit, but
• 25:29
  if an author hates marketing, what's the least miserable approach that still works?
• 25:35
  Oh, least miserable. I do think it's about finding what you like. Marketing isn't ever
• 25:43
  going to end. It's not a finite thing. It's not if you do it for this year, then you're set and
• 25:49
  you'll never have to do it again. So what is it that you are prepared to do day after day,
• 25:55
  week after week, month after year? What are you prepared to do? So like,
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  if you think about it that way, you're better at choosing the right thing. So people go,
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  which social media platform? I'm like, it doesn't really matter. Pick the one that you're going to
• 26:12
  be good on. So like, you have like the podcast and some people would rather dive and talk live
• 26:19
  on a podcast, right? They just curl up and, no, please. But you're really good at that. So that's
• 26:26
  what you do. But if there was something that you really hated, you'd probably not be very good at
• 26:32
  it because you hate it. So it comes across, you know? So yeah. So I would always encourage people
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  to try and think of if it's going to be forever, what can you bear to do forever? What do you
• 26:45
  actually quite like doing? Right. And so what's your best
• 26:50
  quote unquote, do this right now tip for any indie author listening?
• 26:58
  The one that I always recommend to people is having a reader magnet. And a reader magnet is
• 27:03
  there for a number of reasons. It's an introduction to your, so a reader magnet, sorry, a reader
• 27:10
  magnet is you have something, a piece of your creative work that you give away in return for
• 27:16
  someone's email onto your mailing list. And having a reader magnet presupposes a set of
• 27:22
  marketing things. So I'm cheating a little bit. It probably means you have a website. It means
• 27:28
  you have some book that this reader magnet is going to be linked to that will act as an
• 27:35
  introduction to your writing. So I have a reader magnet. And the thing is, I give it away for free
• 27:40
  everywhere. But the point is, if you like that book, you'll probably like all my books. If you
• 27:46
  don't like that one, you probably won't like my writing. So there's no point continuing me coming
• 27:52
  after you trying to encourage you to read my books. You either do or do not like it. So it's
• 27:57
  just a quick, easy way for people to get into your writing. And ideally, you get them onto a mailing
• 28:02
  list. And that then means you're not always shouting into the void and making cold calls.
• 28:07
  You're talking to a group of people who are delighted to hear that you have a new book out.
• 28:11
  So the other day, I posted a silly little video. And I had a cover of one of my books on. But it's
• 28:18
  an updated cover. So the picture had changed. And this woman immediately went, is that the same?
• 28:24
  Have you changed the cover? And I said, yeah, the cover changes. She went, oh, I thought it was a
• 28:28
  new book. And I was like, ah, use one of my really good readers because that's what you want. You
• 28:33
  want people to be so excited when you contact them that there's a new book out that it doesn't
• 28:39
  feel like marketing at all. It just feels like telling people something they'd really like to
• 28:43
  know. So Melissa, if people want to join the Alliance of Independent Authors, do they just
• 28:55
  go there and just click on the button? Absolutely. Yeah. So if you go on their front page,
• 29:00
  there will be an immediate link through. Yeah, you're on the joining page. But even if you are
• 29:04
  on the home page, there will be a thing just to say, go straight through here to join up.
• 29:10
  And then once you remember, make sure to be on the bookstore. Otherwise, you'll be getting an
• 29:13
  email from me. I'm always nagging people. We ran an event recently. And I walked into the room. And
• 29:19
  every author in the room went, I'm uploading. I'm uploading. So I've been nagging everyone going,
• 29:26
  make sure your book is on the bookstore. So yeah. So yeah, they were all just cringing away
• 29:31
  from me going, oh, no, no, I will do it. I promise. But you know, when they've got 73 books
• 29:36
  to upload, it takes a little while. Well, this is great. And also, too,
• 29:40
  for those that want to learn more about you and your books, they should also go to
• 29:44
  melissaaddy.com. And they can see your entire series, over 4,000 five-star reader reviews.
• 29:54
  That is pretty darn cool. That has been very nice. Yeah.
• 29:57
  Yes. All right. Melissa, you have to be coming on more often than every four years, though.
• 30:05
  All righty. I'll come on more often. If you'll have me, I'll come.
• 30:09
  All right. Well, thank you so much, Melissa. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.