Latest / Echoes & Edges / Hidden Enneagram Narratives: Head Center (Types 5,6,7) with Ro Elliott

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Hidden Enneagram Narratives: Head Center (Types 5,6,7) with Ro Elliott · Echoes & Edges

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's Patria. If you're noticing a desire to understand
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: yourself and your patterns more deeply, or want to feel
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: more grounded, more at home in your own life, I
• 0:15
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  Speaker 1: I'll be hosting a live workshop called Coming Home to Yourself,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a Journey into Secure Belonging. This is a space where
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: we'll gently explore what it means to move out of
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: survival patterns and into a more secure, connected way of
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: relating to yourself and to others. It's not about fixing yourself,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. It's more about understanding what shaped us
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and learning how to come back to who we are
• 0:52
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  Speaker 1: workshop is eighty nine dollars, with an expanded option available
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  Speaker 1: for those who want to take a deeper dive, and
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• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a discount of ten percent. If you'd like to join us,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you can find all the details and register through the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: link in the show notes. I'd love to see you there.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: So we've been talking about the Gut Center and the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Heart Center in the last couple of episodes. And so
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: now we're talking about the head center, which is five,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: six and seven enneagram types five, six and seven. What
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: distinguishes the head center in the enneagram row, Well, they.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Move through the world with mental processing, analyzing, scanning, planning.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: They are looking for safety and security. Their attention is
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: to information, to strategies and too risks, all thinking, all
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: headspace processing.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: You said that their attention is to risk and security
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and that they're planning and thinking, anticipating, scanning. Talk to
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: us about how that fear, which is that central emotional
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: component of the head type which creates the sense of uncertainty,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: how can that look different across these three types and
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: how does fear shape the strategies of those types.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so again they're working to avoid whatever it is
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: they're working. They're working hard each number to avoid something
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: a little bit different. That fear is a little bit different.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: So five they are going to withdraw. They sit and observe,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: and they quietly withdraw and knowledge gives them certainty. They
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: will research and study and the more information they have,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the more secure they think they can be. And they
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: actually can start hoarding their information. They can hoard what
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: they have. It's not a selfish thing, but it's a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: protective and they have a very hard time attaching to
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: their emotions, so they can be very detached from the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: people around them and get absorbed in their research and
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: study because that's how they're trying to settle the fear
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: inside them. More information, more at rest, which we know
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: isn't really true, but that's how they go for security. Sixes.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: They are always scanning. They are that's they're the ones
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: scanning for the risk. They're scanning for certainty. They also
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: can they have to watch that worst case scenario where
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: a one has the inner critic, the six haves that
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: intercommittee and it's always saying what about this, and what
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: about this? And what about this? And so like when
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a inneagram one is coming at you with their inner critic,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: when a six is coming with a lot of questions.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Almost can feel my daughter youngest owners to six. This
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: would have been very helpful to know when she was
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: when I was great. Now they almost feel like they're
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: coming at you.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like aggressive feeling almost.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It is so much question but what about this? And
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: they're questioning you, But actually they're trying to calm their
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: inner anxiety. They all have a low harm five, six
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: and sevens that low harm of anxiety, and so that
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: questions is a way that they try to calm their fears.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: And they can be hypervigilant. If I'm hypervigilant and I'm
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: always looking, then I can be safe. Sevens I think
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: are just unique in this because they can look. So
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: when a lot of people think about seven having some
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: anxiety or fear, they're like so happy. They just want
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to have fun. But what's driving all that is to
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: stay away from the fear of being trapped. They want
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: to keep moving and keep their options open. Let's go
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: to the next thing. And it's really so they won't
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: be trapped. And they don't want to be trapped in
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: a situation and they don't want to be trapped in pain,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: so they just try to move ahead of it so
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  Speaker 2: they don't feel that fratness. Way five withdrawal and get information.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Six's can be vigilant and kind of they're looking for somebody,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: and they also have a unique relationship with authority. They
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: look for authority because they want allies, but they don't
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  Speaker 2: trust authorities very easily. So it's another push pull for
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  Speaker 2: them and sevens are just trying to avoid They expand
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: and they go, but they are actually it is avoidance
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  Speaker 2: that they're doing. They reframe so fast, they try to
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  Speaker 2: reframe everything, and to do that, they have to keep
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: moving forward because it's got to be we're going to
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: fly this to be positive, and I got to move
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  Speaker 2: forward to keep flipping.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: They get KG, Yeah, they get KG because they don't
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: like that constriction, right, So that that that constriction of
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: being encumbered by a system or away or limits. You know,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that's that's a question that I ask sevens if i'm yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: if I'm working to type them, it's a seven question
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: is how do you feel about limits? And the seven
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: answer is they do not like limits. You know. Now
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: some of them might be okay with it, depending on
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: story and structure and all of that. But that that
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: discussion that you're that you're sharing about the movement away
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  Speaker 1: from it's it's that assertive movement away from being constricted.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: So what begins to change when head centered types start
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to trust themselves and the world or maybe and or
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: the world more deeply, they.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Can start viewing their thoughts as not weapons. I think
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: they use their thoughts as shields and they can start
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: using their thoughts more as a gift of what they
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: can bring instead of a shield. And it's just more
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: that head to the whole embodied knowing and to become
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: more emotionally aware and you know, five when they can
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: be comfortable to gather that information. But again, I'm not
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: going to use it as a shield. I'm going to
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: give it without a gift. I'm going to give it
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: as a gift. I'm not going to withdraw with my information.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to come forward with my information. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I want a good five in my life. They do
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: all the investigating I don't want to do. You know.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I I tell people if I want to buy a dishwasher,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I want to ask a five what dishwasher they bought?
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Because they are did all the research. They are went
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: into the weeds that I don't want to go in.
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  Speaker 2: So I mean, it's kind of a funny example, but
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: that's the gift they bring. But if they are in
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: a when they can trust there's enough, there's enough of me,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: there's enough of energy that I don't have to hoard it.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I can give it away and it won't totally deplete me.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And that's a big work four or five. Yeah, but
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: don't you think when we see our gifting, it helps
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: us move into that space like this isn't just for me,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: This is a gift for others as well, and I
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: think that helps us break through some of that protective
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: coding that we can have totally.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And I was thinking about that too about type fives
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: which I didn't mention though, the holy ideas for the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: heart types and so if people want to go Google that,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: it's easy accessible, it's easily accessible. But for Type fives,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: it's really coming up right here. So I'll just mention
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: that in my mind, it's really coming up that that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: idea of transparency, you know, which is that is like
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: that feels impossible to fives in that state of survival,
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  Speaker 1: you know, this idea of giving away feels impossible. So
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  Speaker 1: say more about sixes and sevens then as well, and
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I yeah, I'd love to hear more.
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  Speaker 2: Six is naturally just have a lot of self doubt
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  Speaker 2: and that's why they do all the questionings and they
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: go outside themselves. What do you think? What do you think?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: What do you think? What do you think? And when
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: sixes can go on that journey, they know, like my daughter,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I finally had to go are you asking questions? Are
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you processing like are you wanting input or you just
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  Speaker 2: trying to understand yourself? And there were times I would say,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: you know, you already know, And I think sixes just
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  Speaker 2: have to reminded, you know inside the right the decision
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  Speaker 2: for you. Don't be afraid of it, trust your gut,
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  Speaker 2: trust who you are, and you know, if they're pretty
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  Speaker 2: healthy human beings, you could say, when's the last time
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: you made a really bad decision? Because they're always looking
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: at the risks, they don't normally make really bad decisions
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  Speaker 2: right because they're looking at the risk, they're looking at
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  Speaker 2: all the possibilities. So I think when sixes have people
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  Speaker 2: in their life that can help them turn it and say,
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  Speaker 2: you know, you know what you want to do or
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  Speaker 2: you know what that decision is, just sit with it
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  Speaker 2: until you can name it. And that's really powerful. And
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  Speaker 2: because they do plan, they do think ahead, they do
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  Speaker 2: do those things that helps them actually make good decisions.
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  Speaker 2: They just have to learn I have it in here.
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  Speaker 2: I don't have to go outside to find the answer.
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  Speaker 2: It's here.
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  Speaker 1: Just for the six is listening because that move is
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  Speaker 1: so difficult, just like for the five's transparency is so
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  Speaker 1: hard for six's self, trust is probably the hardest move.
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  Speaker 1: What does it look like just give, like you said,
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  Speaker 1: when we can see our gifts, it's a little bit easier,
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  Speaker 1: just it really relax as that a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: the strategy. What does it look like then when they
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  Speaker 1: trust themselves a little more?
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  Speaker 2: I do think if they can look back and reflect, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: last time I was in this space, I made a
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  Speaker 2: good decision and it felt perfect. There's nobody who could
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  Speaker 2: ever look back in the life and made a perfect decision. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: but I think they can look back and say, I
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  Speaker 2: knew inside myself that right decision and it did lead
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  Speaker 2: to where I wanted to go, or it gave me
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the next step that I was supposed to do. So
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  Speaker 2: I think reflection. I think they need to be reminded
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  Speaker 2: of that strength, to be reminded of what they have
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  Speaker 2: inside them and self remember or that's why you know,
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  Speaker 2: that's why God. I think he wants us in community
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  Speaker 2: with people he wants we all have. I think I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: heard my say solely amnesia. We forget, we forget our goodness,
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  Speaker 2: we forget where we've come from, and that's why we
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: want people around us to say, remember, let's re remember
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  Speaker 2: this and this and this. It is a story that
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: you have lived. You're going to continue to live it.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: But you have to remind yourself that I have what
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: it takes and to allow some questions. But then eventually,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: kind of like the five, I've gathered enough information, the
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: six has to at some point make that choice, our
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: choice to shut off the brain and say I've asked
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  Speaker 2: enough questions. I can make a decision. I have wisdom.
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  Speaker 2: But if you let that run and and run, it
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: spirals you too far down. Questions are good, but then
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: it can start same thing with the information. Too much
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: just makes you go back, back, back back. How much
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: of anything kind of can drive us in the wrong direction.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's so good. And before you talk a
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: little more about seven, since five and six is look
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: pretty different from sevens most of the time, not always,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: but most of the time. Just a reminder that I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: was thinking about balance and so for all all types,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I, at least when I'm coaching people, even
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: even with eights, I always add the caveat I never
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: want people to be less of who they are, Never
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: ever ever be less of yourself. But we all need
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: some balance. Something is needed, you know, in the mix,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: in the in the batter that's missing or it needs
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: to be balanced. And so sixes can get pretty wobbly,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: just like fours can get pretty wobbly. There's a pretty
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: big push pull around being seen and being known. What
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: about for sevens? Then what would you add about sevens?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: If they can be where their feet are, that's it,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: just done. Be where your feet are, be present, bring
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: yourself back to where you are. And when you want
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: to jump out to the futures, we won't get into stances.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: But they're future oriented, so that even drives them out.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: But if they can be really present and stay in
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: there is enough of joy, fun, whatever they need, it
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: will be there in the present. And if it's not,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: they can build that muscle to sit in it. They
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: have to learn to sit in the present, in the
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: pleasant part of it. But the hard thing this way
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: tell seven I said, you can't live with a half
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: range of emotions. It's not healthy. It's about just what
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: you talked about, that balance. They have to allow themselves
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: to sit in some very uncomfortable feelings and even if
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: it's for one minute, you know, start small, Just sit
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: for just however long and then the next time just
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: try to sit a little bit longer and learned to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: be more grounded and present and where they are instead
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: of jumping and escape to distraction, they're.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Just trying to distract. That's so good, and it's making
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: me think. I just want to highlight that one thing
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I've heard from type sevens, and I bet you've heard
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: this a little bit too at times. And I'm saying
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: this to be sure that we're not stereotyping anybody, because
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: sevens do actually have the full range of emotions, but
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes because their natural affinity is toward the higher, more
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: pleasant emotions, and because they are jack of all trades,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: they're good at everything they try. They're smart, they're wise,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: they're skilled, people tend to then expect that from them.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: So there, I have heard sevens talk about that they
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: don't always feel those pleasant emotions, but that it's kind
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of this self fulfilling prophecy of having to be that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the happier side of emotions. And so just as a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: community thinking about that four type sevens, that that can
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: be a way that we miss them and don't necessarily
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: invite them, you know, and you a more still less,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you know, less pleasant place all the time.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I think with a seven, it's people get attached
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: to an image of them, and then they get attached
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I'm the fun guy. I'm the guy that brings the energy.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And I worked with a young man from right out
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: of high school, probably into a couple of years of
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: his college, and he was a seven, and that he
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: did say as he was mature, and he goes, I
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: don't want to always be that guy. Yeah, you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I want to. I'm starting to get in touch with
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: how I'm feeling and my struggles. And I said, well,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: then you might need to find a community people that
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: will allow all of you. Yes, you will never not be,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: in one sense, the guy the fun guy, but you
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: want you want friends that will allow you also to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: be the guy who's really struggling and needs to share
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: maybe some dark places of your soul. And so I
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: think it's really important for seven to five people who
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: will accept all of them and not make them into
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: a caricature, because I think seven's more than maybe anybody
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: get that caricature.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So, moving forward, what does integrated head centered leadership look like?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think now fear is not the driver. It's
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: more of a compass for them. It's more of a
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: grounded strategy and so like for a five, again they
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: are going to do that knowledge and they're going to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: do the research. They're going to invite people in. I
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: think five need to think sometimes as mentoring. I think
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: that's a good way for fives maybe to be in relationship,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: but instead of it being more emotional, it's a sharing
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: of knowledge, sharing of their wisdom, and I think fives
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: make good mentors and so in a in a leadership
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: they that's a role they could find and again to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: share openly the gift of their brain power and their knowledge.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I think six is six is are loyalists, and I
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: think people love a good loyal leader. I think you
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: feel safe. Six is much like a nine. They don't
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: necessarily want to be out in front of the pack.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: They are more communal. They open up and they want
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: team They they don't want to do things solo. Six
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: is don't want to do things, so so they they
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: make good team members. They want to draw everybody in
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and they want everybody to have a seat at the table.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: And it's the thing I think six can bring as leadership.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I think they build good community A lot of times
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: they're the glue of a community, and I think they
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: can bring good questions that other people don't think about
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: when it's not coming from fear, but it's just coming
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: from I think analytically, I've already thought, I've already thought
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: through all the things that could go wrong that other
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: people wouldn't even think about. And that's the gifted side
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: of the worst case scenario. Instead of it being out
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: of bounds and dark, it actually is very helpful.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I love that word compass that you said, So
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: instead of lost in the dark of the fear and
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the uncertainty, it's a compass forward. And I think six
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: is exemplify that when they're when they can trust themselves
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: with their gifts.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, and sevens. They're great visionaries. They are the idea.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: They bring a lot of positive energy. If they're putting
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: a vision out there, they need to stay with the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: vision and see it through to the end. I heard
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: somebody say they'll wait till about the third idea before
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: they really start working on it, because hey, yeah, here's
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: an idea. Here's an idea. So if you're working with
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the seven and you know that, but if a seven
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: also can embrace. They are visionaries. Like you said, they're entrepreneurs.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: They get things going. They and I think they bring
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: that energy that makes everybody think we can do this. Yeah,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: let's get this done. This is a great idea. And
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: that's the gift that they bring, is that positivity to
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: a group.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Hey it's Patria. If you've been listening to this podcast
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and find yourself recognized pieces of your own story, the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: patterns of secrecy or shame, the questions about your worth
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: or purpose, or maybe you see clearly the places that
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: feel stuck, I want you to know that you don't
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: have to navigate that alone. Courageous Pathways is a nonprofit
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: we created as a space for individuals walking through healing.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Courageous Pathways offers support for you to be in a
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: place where your story is taken seriously and where healing
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: happens through skilled, safe, compassionate care. We offer a number
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: of sessions to qualifying individuals, and what qualifies you is
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: not necessarily income information. Often the times of financial strain
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: aren't because of lack of income, and we deeply understand
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that if you're looking for support or even just wondering
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: what your next step could be, you can learn more
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: by going to the Broken and Beautiful website and clicking
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: on the link to Courageous Pathways. And if you're looking
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: for a place where integrity and honesty lead the way
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to put the greatest use to your donation dollars, please
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: consider supporting Courageous Pathways. We double every dollar you give
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: by supporting both the recipient of care and the caregiver.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Who are all people that have personally walked the walk
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: of healing and have turned back to extend a hand
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to others. To you, the person thinking about checking this out,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you are not alone in this reach out. There is
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: a way forward. Well, I just feel like this is
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: a complete conversation in so many ways. It's not to
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: say we've covered every aspect of this, but it does
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: feel full and satisfying. Anything else that popped up in
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: your thoughts or about the head Center, particularly that you'd
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: want to just share out. You know, you mentioned you
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: have a daughter. I know this is personal in that sense,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: and maybe there's not, but I just want to leave
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: room for that if there is.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you there's a lady who's a gifted
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Bible teacher. She's six on Enneagram, very intelligent, I mean,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: great Bible teacher, but over the years she's done some
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: deep deport and I listen to her now and I
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: actually text her this. I said, you are embodied, and
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: when maybe this could be for all of us when
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: we are fully embodied head, heart, gut, when we are
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: living fully embody, pulling on all our centers. What we
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: say in what we do actually hits differently. Her teaching
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: hits at a level. I think it was it, it
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: was always good, but it is hitting at a level
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: because she has done work to bring her head, her heart,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: and her gut soul all together when she teaches. So
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: in alignment, we are in alignment, and in that in
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: our goal, we're not just one center. Yeah, we want
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: we need to be head, heart, gut, all of us.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the goal of doing this work,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: is to be as wholehearted, yes, as we can bring
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: b and bring that whole hardness into the world around us.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, that is a beautiful note to end on.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And I appreciate so much this conversation and that it
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: reminds us that the enneagram isn't just describing behavior, it's
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: helping us understand the deeper intelligence behind our patterns and
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: the deeper longing behind our strategies, and that kind of
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: awareness can truly become a doorway to compassion healing and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: that more grounded or in the word you just use,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: embodied and or aligned leadership. And so Roe, thank you
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: so much for the wisdom that you've attained that you
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: continue to bring forward into the world, into the collective,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: into your family, into the podcast, and so thank you
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: for being here and just thoughtfully exploring this with me.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It's just so delightful to chat with you about these things.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for the invitation. I think it's an
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: honor when somebody invites you into their space. This is
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: a sacred space, sacred space to you. So I feel
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: like it's an honor. So thank you very much.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: If this episode resonates with you, follow or subscribe to
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Echoes and Edges on your favorite podcast platform, leave a
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: five star review, and share with a friend who might
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: need a gentle invitation to self understanding. Echoes and Edges
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Stephen R. Sanders, music promoted
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: by Envado. Echoes and Edges is part of the Vivid
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Livid podcast network, where bruses speak and healing finds its voice,