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The Ridiculous History of Fantasy Sports, Part One · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. There's the man, the myth legend,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams. Yeah, yep, holding up
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: a champion belts for fantasy football NOL. That's a little
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: bit of foreshadowy. That's Noel Brown. I am Ben Boland.
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  Speaker 1: This week, we are diving into something that's going to
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  Speaker 1: be very familiar and very awesome for a lot of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: us in the crowd, and then very new information for
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  Speaker 1: many other folks, including your faithful correspondence.
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  Speaker 2: You're talking about sports man talking about sports.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a fantasy about it, sports as Max
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  Speaker 3: puts it in this fantastic brief Because Max is of
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  Speaker 3: course also our research associated on this episode.
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  Speaker 4: They are indeed a thing, not necessarily my thing, but
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  Speaker 4: I respect the hustle and I respect the fandom.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, one interesting observation I had had, like
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  Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, we're lucky to have sports teams that
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  Speaker 1: have very deep and complicated relationships with their fans. Shout
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  Speaker 1: out to everybody who sat at their local chicken wing
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  Speaker 1: spot and stoically watched the Falcons fumble once again or
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  Speaker 1: the Atlanta Hawks?
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  Speaker 2: Uh is it? People? People love to hate the Falcons
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  Speaker 2: and the Hawks. Isn't that right?
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  Speaker 1: Well?
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  Speaker 5: The Hawks are just kind of the like, ugh team,
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  Speaker 5: what we have. They're kind of like they've been poorly
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  Speaker 5: run forever, which is really weird. Like and then and
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  Speaker 5: the national zeitgeist of sports right now, they've had like
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: one of, if not the best offseasons in basketball, which
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  Speaker 5: is really weird.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, it's new. It's a new development, which.
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  Speaker 5: Is good because the one that's normally really good, the
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  Speaker 5: Atlanta baseball team is epically terrible this year. There are
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  Speaker 5: an embarrassing, embarrassing team and it was like the ownership
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  Speaker 5: went cheap on the team. And then the Falcons or
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  Speaker 5: the Falcons as I prefer to call, there were the Flackens,
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  Speaker 5: which is the Flaggens is what they do when like
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  Speaker 5: when like you know, the wide receiver, the first one
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  Speaker 5: receiver catches the ball, he's like, I's going to get touchdown.
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  Speaker 5: And there's a play couple years ag where the guys
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  Speaker 5: just carrying the ball and another player runs up to him,
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  Speaker 5: grabs the ball of his hand and rips it out
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  Speaker 5: of his hands and runs away. And the Flacins right there,
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  Speaker 5: they just they they they they will be the type
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  Speaker 5: of thing. Well, they'll be winning or race by a mile,
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  Speaker 5: then like trip on their own feet, face plant and
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  Speaker 5: then somehow pee themselves.
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  Speaker 2: I do remember I'm doing that at a particular Super Bowl.
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  Speaker 4: If I's mistaken saw that one in person, Yeah, I
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  Speaker 4: mean not at the game, but.
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  Speaker 1: That's what I'm returning to. Yeah, I was sitting at
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  Speaker 1: our favorite chicken wing spot, hanging out there. That's the thing,
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  Speaker 1: even if you don't feel that you yourself are an ardent
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  Speaker 1: fan or an expert on a particular team or a
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  Speaker 1: sport overall, there is, to your point about fandom, there is,
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  Speaker 1: in my experience, this absolutely electric, galvanizing energy about going
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  Speaker 1: to a live game. I dig it all the time.
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  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, as you guys know, this
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: might be the year I finally get to go to
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: a sumo championship.
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  Speaker 4: Ooh, yes, you've been talking about that for lo these
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  Speaker 4: many years, and I do hope that that happens for you. Also,
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  Speaker 4: to Max's point, something about the way teams are run,
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  Speaker 4: the revolving door of players, all of these different variables
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  Speaker 4: can contribute to significant changes across the duration of a franchise, right,
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  Speaker 4: things that are really important to be keyed into if
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  Speaker 4: you want to reliably predict outcomes.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, which gets us to ooh, that's great. This gets
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  Speaker 1: us to part of what we're exploring. Right. It is
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  Speaker 1: very common in any sport fandom for many people with
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  Speaker 1: a deep understanding of their team to watch plays being made,
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  Speaker 1: or watch strategy being rolled out, and to think to themselves,
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  Speaker 1: even if just for a moment, hot dog, I could
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  Speaker 1: manage this team better. I have a dream, what would
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  Speaker 1: happen if I could? If I could predict and make
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  Speaker 1: these plays and leverage my own understanding in some version
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  Speaker 1: of reality. That is where we see the rise of
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  Speaker 1: fantasy sports. Now, sport has always been a thing in
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  Speaker 1: human civilization. It used to be much more violent, much
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  Speaker 1: more or bloody. But the concept of deepening your relationship
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  Speaker 1: to a team by engaging in fantasy sports is very
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  Speaker 1: much a real thing. And as we're going to learn,
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of history to this. Max, you had
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  Speaker 1: a great example here, and I always love this analogy.
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  Speaker 1: We roll it out in stuff they don't want you
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  Speaker 1: to know. When we talk about weirdness, like the fact
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  Speaker 1: that humans sleep. If aliens came down and you tried
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  Speaker 1: to explain fantasy sports to them, they would have no
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  Speaker 1: idea what you were talking about, and it would indeed
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  Speaker 1: arguably be kind of off putting. But it's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of fun. It's a huge market. We're talking something like
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  Speaker 1: thirty point four billion dollars valuation in twenty twenty three,
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  Speaker 1: that's per SkyQuest, and by twenty thirty two, this industry
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  Speaker 1: of fantasy sports overall is going to be somewhere around
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  Speaker 1: a five billion.
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  Speaker 4: Dollars well, and it's interesting too because we're starting to
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  Speaker 4: see the lines blurring between fantasy uh and reality in
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  Speaker 4: terms of gambling in the way that figures into that
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  Speaker 4: kind of portfolio.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. That's one of the big questions
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  Speaker 1: we've got to tackle this week. Tackles whatever smarts accidental. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for the dump, I'm not proud of it.
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  Speaker 5: But also if I could jump in real quick, there's
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  Speaker 5: actually to Nole's point there, there's UH when it actually
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  Speaker 5: comes to actual sports, Like there are cases of people
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  Speaker 5: and like the NFL being like, oh, I don't care
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  Speaker 5: about your fantasy team and stuff like that and the
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  Speaker 5: best kind of argument I said, It's like, well, do
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  Speaker 5: you care about your increasing your paycheck? You've gone because
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  Speaker 5: Fantasy has made the NFL so much money.
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  Speaker 6: Which is one of.
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  Speaker 5: The funniest moments in Fantasy last year, which is I
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  Speaker 5: can say I had Josh Allen on the championship team
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  Speaker 5: that got this belt with when I beat my friend
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  Speaker 5: Ronnie Ronnie Phillips, who I'm going to listen to his
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  Speaker 5: part where I beat him in the finals and smoked
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  Speaker 5: him and he's the commissioner of the league. I'm just
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  Speaker 5: twisting the knife a little. Sorry, I'll get back on topic.
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  Speaker 5: But like this is play where Josh Allen threw a
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  Speaker 5: ball to I think it was Amari Cooper and looked
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  Speaker 5: the red zone and Josh Allen's known for being this
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  Speaker 5: incredible athlete's like six' five but super fast and, athletic
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  Speaker 5: And Mark cooper is, like turns around his, Side he's
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  Speaker 5: gonna throw it back To Josh, allen And Josh allen
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  Speaker 5: then catches it and dives into the end. Zone so
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  Speaker 5: how has scored Is Josh allen threw a touchdown pass to? Himself,
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  Speaker 5: Right and so when asked in the interview, afterwards because
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  Speaker 5: that's in. Fantasy that's just throw a touchdowns four, points
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  Speaker 5: catch you touchdown six, points and there's other points that
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  Speaker 5: can go along with it as.
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  Speaker 6: Well those are just standard.
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  Speaker 5: Stuff Josh allen got ten fantasy points for, that And
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  Speaker 5: Josh allen, said, yeah, MAN i was gonna look great
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  Speaker 5: on my fantasy scorer because it turns out he has
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  Speaker 5: himself in his own fantasy league and it's like there's that.
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  Speaker 5: Awareness but to those, points is that blending of the
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  Speaker 5: line where it's, like this is a mega, industry like And,
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  Speaker 5: ben you're talking about, this is a, mega mega industry
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  Speaker 5: that sports take a lot of money off, of and
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  Speaker 5: they don't always want to admit, that, right.
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  Speaker 1: Right it can be a little bit of a thing
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  Speaker 1: that they play to the. Side but it also brings
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  Speaker 1: us to a question we'll explore, later an ethical, question
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  Speaker 1: not necessarily a legal. One i'd, say more of an ethical.
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  Speaker 1: Question should athletes be able to participate in their own fantasy?
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  Speaker 1: Sports you know WHAT i?
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  Speaker 4: Mean so, well, yeah it's a similar question to like
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  Speaker 4: should lawmakers be able to buy and trade?
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  Speaker 1: Stocks not? Bad, Yeah I'm i've to. Agree there's also
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  Speaker 1: something we learned to given that the pursuit of sports
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  Speaker 1: right physical exercise for now recreation and. Amusement because this
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  Speaker 1: pursuit is so old in the human, species we're never
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  Speaker 1: going to learn the original. Inventor it's kind of like
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: asking who made the first wheel or who figured out
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  Speaker 1: how to tame. Fire fantasy sport as an industry or
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a pursuit is kind of. Similar, So, max you did
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  Speaker 1: something really intelligent in setting up our brief here and
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  Speaker 1: our exploration by saying it be. Tough it might be
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  Speaker 1: a fool's errand for us to try to declare a single. Inventor,
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  Speaker 1: instead for this series of ridiculous, history we wanted to
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  Speaker 1: talk about the, milestones the influential. Steps so along the
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  Speaker 1: way we do this by shouting, out of, course one
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  Speaker 1: of the best sources in the business, Here Fantasy sports
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  Speaker 1: And Gaming association OR, fizga which is an initialism but
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: not an.
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  Speaker 4: Acronym Aw, man it's fun to, say, though that's for. Sure, Yeah, YEAH,
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  Speaker 4: fizga The Fantasy sports And Gaming. Association as you, Said
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  Speaker 4: ben so according TO, fizga which reminds me of Fizz
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  Speaker 4: gig From The Dark, crystal that little furball Character i'm
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  Speaker 4: a big fan of the very first fantasy sports adjacent,
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  Speaker 4: item as they put it in their, history dates back
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  Speaker 4: to the late fifties and a man by the name
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Of wilfred commonly referred to As wink because his last
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  Speaker 4: name Is, Winkeenbach, Winkeenbach Wilfred, Wink winkenbach or vinc And.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Bach if you're, nasty Yeahch wink is a cool. NICKNAME
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  Speaker 1: i like. It this is the, guy as you were, saying,
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  Speaker 1: no who devised fantasy. Golf he dreamed up the idea
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and in his original, ideation each player would select a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: team of professional golfers and the, player not the professional,
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  Speaker 1: golfers but the player who was in this fantasy league
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  Speaker 1: would win the game or win the tournament if their
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: team had the lowest total combined number of strokes at
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the at the end of this. Tournament And wink had
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: this deep special to the biggest fantasy sector in The
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: western world, today THE, nfl because he was a minority
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: owner in The Oakland. Raiders apparently this also informed how
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: he dreamed up the idea of fantasy.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Football and The Oakland raiders aren't they didn't they move To.
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: Vegas they are In vegas and it's going totally fine
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: and they have no. Problem you're being, Sarcastic. MAXIMUS i,
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: AM i. Am i'm not sure how it's, going but
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: they had some. Issue they got a really nice stadium
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: actually in front of the. Program Dave kustan die, hard
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: Diehard Oakland, Raiders Uh Vegas raiders.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Fans, YEAH i, know, Man it's weird because sometimes when
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: people really love their, team they talk about their team
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: like the way new parents talk about a baby they just.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Had everything relates back to The, raiders.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Or they talk about their team like their friends new
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: baby that they just. Had who they right?
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Team shout out to The.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Falcons he also shout out to Guy Yes comedy.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: EXACTLY i love that he has a sketch that you
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: can find on. YouTube just type In Kyle mooney's.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: Sports and he's got this jacket that just as sports
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: on the sleeves and he just has all these amorphous
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: comments about his sports and his, teams but like it's
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: impossible to tell what sport he's talking.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: About and it is an absolute.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Delight AND i gotta tell, you the, folks as as
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the boys AND i are, Saying Kyle mooney was such
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: a sleeper hit ON. SNL i wish he was still
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: in the, crew but He's he's doing great comedy even
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: after his tenure, there so do check him.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: Out he also seems like a cool hang for he.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Does for, sure he's got some cool. FILMS y TWO
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: k wasn't, great but it was an interesting. SWING i
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: do really enjoy his Film Brigsby bear if you're, interested
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: as Very Michelle gondry.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Esque and also he.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Is he has an album out Called the Real me
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: and it is absolutely ridiculous and hilarious and heartwarming at.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Times and he's actually on tour for that, now so
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: if he's coming to your, town do check him.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: OUT i want to do a fantasy sketch comedy crew
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: just SO i can like think through. It you, know
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: if we Had Tim, Heidecker Bob, Odenkirk Kyle, Mooney Maria.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Bamford oh, Man, okay this is going to get. Weird
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: this is not related to what we're talking. About let's
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: go back To. Wink wink dreams up the idea of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: fantasy football when he's chatting with another employee of The
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: raiders as well as a sports reporter From, oakland and
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: these guys aren't In oakland when they have this. Conversation
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: The raiders are on a road. Trip so these three
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: dudes are at A New York city hotel and they start,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: thinking what if the same kind of fantasy INFRASTRUCTURE i
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: created for golf could be applied to. Football and this
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: was a dream. Idea this was a real light bulb.
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  Speaker 1: Moment and so they started putting together their team and their.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Approach and this is back In august of nineteen sixty.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Three they started with a heck of a, Name. Noel
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they called themselves The Greater Oakland Professional Pig Skin Prognosticators
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: league or goop go.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: People we're very pro. People that's. HILARIOUS i gotta say
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: it out loud To. Ben The Greater Oakland Professional Pig
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Skin Prognosticators, league which was held At winckenbach's, home with
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: the very first pick Being George, blanda who played for The.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: RAIDERS afl OR nfl players could be. Picked this, was
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: by the, way before the merger and three and a
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: half years before the very First Super, bowl and points
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: could be distributed awarded for touchdowns and field, goals so
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: a little bit simpler because NOW i believe you can
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: get point for any number of combinations and very gambling
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: style like, parlays, right things like, that where you, Yeah.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that. Up what is a?
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: PARLAY i think Maybe max can help us with. THAT
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: i believe a parlay is it's a side.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: BET a parlay is a combo. Bet so, basically so you're.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: Betting on various circumstances happening in currently and.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: CONCURRENTLY i think.
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: So for, example let's just say, there you could place
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: a parlay on this episode That max will say something
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: about how Much Woodrow wilson, Sucks ben will say something
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: that requires a bad joke.
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: Drum And noel will talk about.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: Music you could do a parlay for, that and and
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: the reward you'll get is much higher than if you
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: just do all those bets.
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: Singular it's got like a.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Multiplier, right all, three all three have to.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: OCCUR i have heard one last, night for, like if
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: The falcons and The. Hawks if you put a parlay
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: on A falcons And, hawks And i'm not a, Gambler
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: i'm Not i'm not really into the. Stuff but if
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: you put One falcons and The hawks both winning the respective,
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: championships one hundred dollars would return two hundred and ELEVEN,
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: k but they would both have to win.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: IT i, see, ooh people have lost a lot of.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Money all, Right, yeah we'll get to the gambling part.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: TWO i think that's a big area of interest for
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: all of. Us let's stay in the nineteen sixties, Now
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: so like as we're, saying nineteen sixty, Three wink puts
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: together An ocean's eleven style team and they meet at
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: his house to Form go Bol and if we fast
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: forward just a little bit still in the nineteen, sixties
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a public fantasy league gets. Established this is also In.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Oakland it's at a. Bar people, are you, know imbibing their.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Vibing they're hanging out and they decide to make a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: few gentlemanly.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Wagers, YES i love a good gentlemanly.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Wager, Right and now we travel From, Glint, california out
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: To massachusetts To. Cambridge this is where we see a
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: pretty big baseball fan Named WILLIAM. A. Gamson he happens
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to also be the Eighty he goes on to become
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the eighty fifth president of The American Sociological.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Association Great john related to fantasy, sports, right, right Job
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: willie a sociological based.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Organization great, job Will, yeah, yeah great job. Man but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: we're we're proud of, you we support, you but we're
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: not concerned with your academic bona. Fides we're talking about
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: you as a baseball. Fan.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Now, yeah but he would have been the first one
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: to talk about himself that way. Too gamson was a
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: huge name in the field of, sociology being the aforementioned
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: president of THE asa and winning many produced, awards such
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: as The Distinguished contributions To Teaching, award the W Eb
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Deboe's career Of Distinguished Scholarship, up THE Asa Lifetime Career Achievement,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: award and the McCarthy Lifetime Achievement award from The center
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: for The study Of Social Movements.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Letters, indeed, yes and.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: We, could we could rattle out some more.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Acronyms will spare you That Bill ganson was one of
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: the most influential social scientists in the. World according to
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: sociology professor and Chair Andrew. Jorgensen he was a great
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: mentor for graduate and undergraduate students as well as for junior,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: faculty and his lifetime commit to social justice was, inspiring Said.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: Jorgensen just wanted to get all that stuff out of
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: the way before we jump into the kind OF i
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: don't know his side hustle as a sports.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Fan yeah, yeah so, again great, Job. Willie we don't
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: want to dismiss your amazing efforts and service to the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: field of sociology, overall but for this, conversation you're a baseball.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Guy so he is super enthusiastic to, students to, colleagues
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: to friends and family alike about. Baseball and you can
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: read this great discussion about this from a guy Named Richard.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Sandomir he is sadly he is writing this as part
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty one obituary Of Professor, gamson which
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: was published in The New York.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: Times well it just goes to, show, though how recent
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: a development this whole you know world. Is you only
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: just you, know very recently passed. Away this is What
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: sandomir had to. Say Professor gamson indulged his enthusiasm for
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: baseball and his attachment to games by creating what he
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: called The National Baseball, seminar a simulated game in which
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: each person in his group originally, three had a budget
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: to draft major leaguers for a. Team the players were
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: measured throughout the season based on batting, average runs batten,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: in earned run, average and.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Wins, yeah and.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: This is going to be very familiar to any of
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: us who play fantasy football or fantasy, baseball any kind
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: of fantasy league. Sport Professor gamson was speaking TO espn
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: about this in twenty ten and he, said we felt
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: these statistics that you just MENTIONED nol reflected. Productivity but in,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Truth i'm gonna paraphrase him, here the hard reality was
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a deep bench of statistics at the, time
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: nowhere near like the level we're at. Now so when
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: he Moves gamson to The university Of michigan in nineteen sixty, two,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Fine i'll say it go. Blue he recruits about twenty
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: five people to play his reindeer, games and some of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: these guys that join up are themselves also. Academics i'm
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: thinking of folks Like Robert, skar who's a history. Professor
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: scar mentions it to one of his, students a guy
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Named Daniel, oakrint and a decade, later inspired by this,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: discourse Mister oakrant goes on to invent the Rotisserie League.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Baseball it's a more, complex more sophisticated system.
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: And jumping real. Quick, YES i am wearing A michigan
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: shirt right, NOW.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I Go Go Go.
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: Blue there's? Valiant What max?
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: Sent?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah that also reminds. ME i love. THIS i thought
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it was a stereotype from comedy and sitcoms and, Films
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: but the last three Times i've been In, PHILADELPHIA i swear, you,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Guys i've heard someone casually just say go, birds like
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: in line at a gas station or. SOMETHING i love
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: this kind of. STUFF i love the. NOMENCLATURE i love
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the team spirit and the way these pursuits bring people.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Together Mister oakrant feels the same. Way he. Says, look
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: this idea of a Rotisseriy baseball league or Rotissary league,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: baseball it came about because of all the precedent created
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: dozens of years earlier By Professor Bill gampson and By
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Professor Bob. Sklar and now we would CONSIDER rlb or
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Rotisary League baseball the closest ancestor to the multi billion
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: dollar fantasy sports industry.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Today for, sure what is rotisserie they're talking about, here?
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: Guys there's a quote from The New York times piece
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: Where oakrint, wrote what would would something like rotisseriy have
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: been possible, otherwise.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: So rotisseriy is and then this in this matter not
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: like you, know a spinning take with apple in his.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: Mouth common refers to one of the more common styles
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: of fantasy. Baseball so in, football the most common styles
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: points were basically a touchdowns WORTH, x your defense getting
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: sack is worth why?
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: Xyz you?
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: Know well in ret, hisstory how it is is it's
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: like you have to build a complete. Team so it's
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: like how many stolen bases do you? Have how many
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: home runs do you? Have and there' and so you
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: have to look in the number of categories so you're
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: motivated that way and how it works sometimes so sometimes
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: you use these things called week in category, leagues daily category,
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: leagues which is like new score every, year or true
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: rotistory is like for the entire. Season so you have
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: to make sure to fix your. Team if a team's
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: bad in the, category you will lose that category on the.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: SEASON i, See so not not nothing chicken, related, okay
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: check making.
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: Sure no no suckling, pick.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Which is a shame because you could you can always
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: tell when we start asking each other these questions that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: we're recording right before lunchtime.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: So early days, though, guys, right it was pretty niche
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: and not particularly, lucrative right.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly it's more a matter of personal. Interest, rotisseri As max,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: said is engaging to fans because it incorporates so many other, variables,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: right so many other categories and stats and things to
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: include within your. Calculations do check out a great interview
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Between oakrint And Nick fletcher For The Hardball. Times you
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: can find that on a website Called. Fangraphs, but like you're, Saying,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: noel at this, point we have a few people who are,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: very very into this and while they don't have deep
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: pockets as an industry, yet they do have big dreams
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: our real like a real inflection point occurs in the nineteen.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Nineties this is when you get a platform that begins
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: to resemble modern day fantasy. Football side note at bears
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: repeating like The White stripes said once upon a, time
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: fantasy football is by far in The, west the biggest
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: form of fantasy. Gaming.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: ABSOLUTELY i mean WHEN i that's WHAT i always associated
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: with people when they talk about fantasy they usually are
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: saying fantasy football like that's sort of the like bread
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: and butter of the, industry at least for a normy like.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: Me that's WHAT i was always aware. OF i don't
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: really hear people talk about fantasy. BASEBALL i know it,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: exists but to, me it's like The Coca cola of
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: fantasy sports is fantasy.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Football, yeah you, Know max AND i have been have
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: been pretty active in early conversations about fantasy.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: Curling surely it, exists no. PROBLEM i use a, Question,
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: max are there certain sports that are not conducive to?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Fantasy?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Oh you.
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: Could you could do it because if it's if they're,
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: statistics you could do. Fantasy got it, Right that's what it.
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: Is and that's Why ben mad a brilliant point when
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: he was talking ABOUT reti history where it's like this
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: is like for fans. Stuff that's why it was kind
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: of the early. Days it was So niche, was it's,
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: like you have to really labor on the. Point your,
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: website this WEBSITE i linked. FANGRAFTS i have a subscription
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: with them because that's What i'm.
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: LIKE i like my, stats that's WHAT i.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Love but if you were to, say not like hardcore like,
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: that there are versions of fantasy sports that just involved
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: like assembling a fantasy team and then you don't really
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: have to dig down or drill down into the.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: Stats and as time he was on there is actual
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: where we're progressing the. Story it's gotten the barrier of
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: entry has gotten much, much much, lower where.
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: You don't have to.
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: Spook my Friend, ronnie he's a HUGE nfl. Fan, now
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: he's a big football, fan but like ten years, ago
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: our league actually dates back to when we all worked
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: together in a bar together and we all were talking
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: sports that he didn't really watch sports at the, time
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: so he just started playing fantasy with. Us and he
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: loves THE nfl now he was all this stuff, now
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: but at the time he had to use these tools
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: a lot because he's like but it made it so
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: he could play with.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: Us, well it's sort of like the way if you're
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: Playing Boulder's, gate for, example versus PLAYING d AND, d
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: a lot of those calculations and things are done for,
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: you right.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Exactly it just shows the dice. Roll but this is
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: a really important point because back in the, sixties when
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: we're talking About wink and we're talking about doctor g,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: earlier they DIDN'T i love the point your making. Mix
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: they didn't have the privilege of The internet or going
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to just some convenient website that will lay out all
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the stats in the most helpful. Way, instead they were
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: digging into you, know printed, records, right they are studying
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: batting averages and stuff on the back of the trading.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Cards so you really had to put.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: The work in, right and, like you, know just a little.
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: Bit this is concurrent going on at the same. Time
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: but you have stuff like in the, eighties the rises like,
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: sabermetrics where you have like people who are working on
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: advanced better statistics and stuff like. That because at this
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: point in, time like you got to, remember like a
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: lot of this stuff is you pick up the newspaper
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: and you manually tabulated at these, scores and then you,
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: know you get an argument with your friends because they're
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: tabulating it. Wrong you're, saying but they're saying you're. Wrong
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: like this is like all kind of happening. Concurrently and
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: then also remember these people were making a good bit
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: of money, professionally but they ain't making the money they make, now,
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: right these sports were gav.
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: Coming this is all happened at the same, time.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: And, yes it's happening. Concurrently it's also encouraging certain personality
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: TRAITS i can already picture someone saying you're tabulating this,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: wrong and then some other guy in the back, GOING
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: i have a.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: System, YEAH i have a system for. Sure your math is. Wrong,
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: no you don't know, math, right you.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Don't get my, system don't, fine, whatever, Whatever, Yes i'll
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: have another bud.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: Light buds for, you bud, this buds for, this buds for,
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: you you math.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Heretic, OH i thought you were gonna say this buds for, You.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Bookeroo that was a real missed. Opportunity that's good.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Though you got. It you got. It it's a team.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: Effort he can paf Blue, Ribbon Stay.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Blue Ull go blue and award winning. Beer as as
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: we often have described, it it's not Like, Miller it's
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: not Like Miller, lite which is of course famously the
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: beer is so good you can drink it with your.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: MOUTH i can't believe we got away with, That. Admiral
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: if you, wish if you, wish so bad boofing jokes.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Aside we're going to move. On we are going To
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: we're going to get to, again this, fulcrum this real
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: pivotal moment in the nineteen. Nineties this is where we
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: see the emergence of a platform that can support modern
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: day fantasy. Football if you want to learn a lot about,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: this check out the Author Larry. Scheckter he has a
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: book that came out quite, recently just last, Year The
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: history Of Fantasy, sports and we're going to lean into
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: some of his some of his work. Here in a,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: SECOND i guess we should tell you the full title
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Is The history Of Fantasy sports colon Than saleofcommissioner Dot.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Com, indeed and this is not a company THAT i
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: was familiar with at, all so this is all new
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: to me as well as you can probably. Guess this
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: first kind of name in fantasy sports started small and
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: actually helped lay the groundwork for the industry that we know.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Today Peter, Pizaris Michael, Gersh James, price And Scott harder
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: were frat brothers who had graduated From Carnegie, mellon which
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: IS i think a pretty prestigious, university and then later
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: all moved To manhattan to The Big apple and got.
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: Jobs one, night they were talking through things at their
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: local chicken wing joint nineteen ninety five about what they
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: would do if they were, mega mega, rich Like Bill gates.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Rich, yeah, yeah, Yeah and this is back during The
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: alcyon days Of microsoft being the first and final word
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: in public. Computers So Bill gates is kind of like
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: The Alon musk at this. Point he's the richest dude
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: they can think. Of and they, said you know, what
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: we're sitting, around we're eating some great chicken, wings we're
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: having some, drinks and we're just. Talking why are we?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Talking we can do. This we can make this happen
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: right now and hold the, phone. Folks we're gonna make an.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Audible AM i doing that? Right? Audible is?
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: That is?
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: That is that a sports?
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: Rap it is is well? Audible audible can mean many.
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: Things but he's using.
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: Football it's when often it's when at the line of
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: scrimras the, quarterback we'll look at what the defense is lined.
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: Up he'll be, like he'd be, like, omaha. Omaha that's
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: the old page thirty, two pouring out things like.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: That so we are using the phrase. Correctly we are
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: calling an. Audible this is very much going to be
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: a two part. Series thanks as always to our super
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: producer and research associate for this, series Mister Max. Williams
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: thanks To Alex williams who composed this bang in.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: Track indeed huge thanks To Christopher hasiotis And, Eves Jeff,
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: Coats here In, Spirit Jonathan, Strickland the, quister A. J, Bahama,
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: Jacobs The.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Buzzler Hut Hot.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Hut who's the next, Time.
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: Folks for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,
• 32:21
  Speaker 7: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Shows