Latest / The BEYOND Podcast / Lewis Ellis: Confidence, Tattoos and the Art of Being Unapologetic

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Lewis Ellis: Confidence, Tattoos and the Art of Being Unapologetic · The BEYOND Podcast

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Unknown: [Music] Lewis Ellis. This is an interesting one. Never have I ever met anyone with a
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tattoo of Lord Sugar's face on their bicep. But that is how far Lewis went
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to get his revenge on Lord Sugar for some of the things that Lord Sugar called him.
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This is a very interesting interview. We want to get into the arguments he's had,
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the public spats with Lord Sugar. We want to get into his brain because he is a fascinating, mad,
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weird, and wonderful individual. Lewis is also a really unusual character that does a
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lot of strange things. For example, he traveled all the way to Qatar to track down his stolen
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AirPods and actually found them. He's had a lot of public feuds with Lord Sugar. Lord Sugar has
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been really mean to him online and Lewis has been really mean back to Lord Sugar.
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If you want to know exactly how mean they were, you've got to tune in and find out.
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So, I'm so happy to have you on in researching like your background. I've dug up quite a lot of
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things. Yeah. But just before we get into all of that, I can probably safely say that you're known
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for being very bold, very unapologetic. You made it to the final five on the apprentice. That's
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right. You're the owner of Hustle Marketing. Yeah, you're doing pretty well. You're pretty
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entrepreneurial, surviving. Yeah, you're uh you're very good at, I think, your personal branding,
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which I want to get into a bit more. And you're also known for quite a public spat with Lord Sugar
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himself. Oh, he's Yeah, he's on my arm, actually. I'll talk about in a bit. Show us. Is he on your
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arm? Actually, he's there. I won the battle, but I lost the war. Like, it looks a lot like It looks a
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lot like creepily. So I would be really scared to see him on my It would give me like Yeah. anxiety.
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At 21 years old, I was pretty lost. I didn't know what I wanted to achieve in life. Didn't know
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where I was going to go. Was running around and every time I'd come home and try and get settled
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into some sort of career, freak out and go travel. So anyway, at 21, I'd met some business owners in
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a ski resort and those guys instilled the faith in me that I could potentially be an entrepreneurial
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sort of person. I don't really settle into a role and I'm always trying to create things
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and do things. So, I would say that I'm just a guy who at 21 decided I wanted to be a business owner
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of some sort. And ever since then, I've been doing everything I can in my power to make it a reality.
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But it has to be something that I'm passionate and interested with. Yeah. For someone tuning in,
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what do you think they can gain from you? I think I think the value that I bring to the table,
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we can talk about marketing, but that's pretty boring to be honest. You want to talk about that,
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hit me up. We can talk about the realizations at different points in my life and the adaptations
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that I've made to make things happen. You just mentioned about my friends, for example. I just
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cut out every single person that I know and have associated with for the last 10 years. I literally
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just put in the group chat, "Guys, it's over. We're not talking anymore." Yeah. Cuz I realized
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that they weren't the right crowd to be around me anymore. So, there's stuff like that we can talk
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about. Or I'm just a like I said, I'm just someone who's doing everything within my power to make my
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business a success. My business is very different and I'm trying to maintain that. I think the value
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someone might take from listening to me talk. I haven't quite made it yet. I've not made millions
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yet, but my business has been around for four years. I'm in my fifth year now. It is getting
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more successful year on year. We're big bringing in bigger clients. And you got to ask yourself,
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if I'm a tattooed guy who comes across and some people hate me, some people love me,
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then how am I getting these clients and how am I still growing? And I think there's value to
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be had in that story. Do you know what I think the value is to have you on? Why I brought you on? Cuz
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no one else would do it. No, I'm joking. Yeah, I think your thing is that you're pretty confident.
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I think you've got a nice you confident but you're confident in a way that you're very accepting of
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exactly who you are at the core. You've got quite a sensible view of yourself and with that comes
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a lovely level I think of confidence. I think anyone watching you will could learn from that
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sort of confidence. It often gets misconstrued. People like to call me arrogant when I was younger
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because it was a confidence without achieving anything. But now it's the mindset of people
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perceptions of me is changing. They're like, "Oh, he said he's going to do these things.
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He's doing these things." Yeah. So, I suppose I also think the other thing that they'll get
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from you is you're pretty entertaining. And that's what I got when I Today I'm tired. No,
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you're entertaining still. You're pretty funny. I saw your online stuff. You're quite a you're a
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big character. You're a big personality. You've got a big person. Why are you calling me a fat?
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Because I've been losing weight recently. Exactly. Talking about your personality. Oh, personality.
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Sorry. I'm talking about your personality. And it's it's it's an important thing to have
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a personality. Let's be honest. Just and you can have a there's different colors of personality.
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There's all different wavelengths of personality. But if you have that personality stands out,
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that's a big thing in life. It just gets it opens doors fact. And I think that people can probably
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learn that from you today. Yeah. You know what? I think I've got this really heightened sense
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of self-awareness that I didn't have 10 years ago now. And I'm constantly assessing and crit
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critical of myself. So much so that I'll always make these minor tweaks and changes wherever
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possible. And I'll sit there and go and I'm my own biggest critic. And I think a lot of people
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are their own biggest critic, but then they don't really change anything. So maybe there's something
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there around the fact that whatever you're trying to work on, wherever you're trying to go,
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you can work make changes at any point in your life. Yeah. Okay. So when I went on this because
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obviously you're on the apprentice and everything and I was on the apprentice. It's interesting to
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meet these different characters, but then I look at what they've done outside of Apprentice and I
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see how how they've carried themselves. Are they present on social media, aren't they? They cuz
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some definitely don't want anything to do with that whole world fame, whatever. But yeah, I have
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to say watching you on the Apprentice and the initial sort of thought was yes, the confidence
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maybe arrog slight arrogance, but then I saw your hair transplant video. I hope you don't mind me
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talking about that. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I actually when I saw that I actually thought, okay, he's
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not taking himself too seriously. He's not afraid to talk about his weaknesses. He's not afraid to
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admit he's vulnerable. So, there's a story there. Actually, it's the last time I What's the story?
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I don't know why I get I never ever cry and it's really worrying. Actually, I need a therapist,
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but I'm avoiding you. If you are one, I'm avoiding you. Just know that. I feel like I'm a Tinder box
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waiting to go up. Anyway, at the time, I'd scroll through social media. There's this little girl
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with cancer, and everyone was shaving their head off in solidarity with her to raise money and
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awareness. And I was just like I was just I was chatting away and I was like I'm gonna shave my
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head tonight and they were like what? And I went home. I don't know why I did it. I just did it
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straight away. Yeah. Posted the video because at the time my videos were doing quite well on
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TikTok to try and give it more oomph. And then I was like holy crap my hairline's awful. And so I
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was talking to a guy who had a business connecting people to people in the UK like brain surgeons who
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do it in the part-time and stuff. And he was like do you want to do it? And I was like yeah why not?
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Like why not? Now I'm 30. I think I was 20 20. No I was 30. So why not? Yeah. Yeah. And then I
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was sharing the story and I actually get loads of guys reaching out to me. Like I'm not a vain guy.
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Like I don't really give a [ __ ] 90% of the time I'm in my pajamas. But the it made me feel much
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much more confident cuz I'd never had this like part here. Yeah. It was interesting. You didn't
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really notice it. And then you said that it was like and then it made you more self-conscious. I
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think I was like oh crap that's not good. And then Yeah. And then past that point the amount
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of people amount of guys especially business owners that reach out to me ask me questions
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all the time about it. Okay. So for people watching cuz I I have guys and things on my
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Instagram like anyone thinking about it, should they do it? Like how scary is it? How expensive is
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it? This is the thing. So I I only had the corners of my hair done the sides cuz I wanted a straight
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hairline. So I didn't really have receding hair or anything like that. If you are thinking about it,
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go for it. Who it makes you feel better and you feel better. You're going to be more successful.
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You're going to push. You're going to feel more confident walking into a room and all that sort
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of stuff. The amount of guys that reach out to me and they've been worried about it for years.
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It's crazy. Um, and they let it really impact on that. If girls get their done, you can get your
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hair done. Like, as simple as that. I agree. And I think it's right. It doesn't mean you're vain or
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anything. It means you've got respect to invest in yourself and you know that how you look does
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affect how you act. It does. And why not be more confident? Why? I think guys have a hard time. You
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think Jeff Bezos? You think Jeff Bezos hair just grew back on its own or or Elon Musk? Elon Musk.
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Elon Musk looks fabulous, by the way. I think whatever tweakments he's been doing, go for it.
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hair at 1000. Look at Jeff Bezos in 2000s. Look at Elon Musk in 2000. And look at them in 2024 and
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tell me they've not both had their hair done. I think who's the other one that I noticed? Oh god,
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the guy off High School Musical. Zack Efron. Yeah, Zack Efron. His hair was fading and then it came
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back stronger. Yeah, I'm 100 I think that's You know what I um my brother had ears that sort of
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stuck out like this. My mom was like, "Listen," and we're kids at that point. She was like,
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"Listen, you got these the kids tease you and everything. Do you want to go and get it done?"
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And he was like, "Yeah, sure." Yeah. that made a huge difference to his life. Yeah. I draw the line
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at things where, for example, I've got friends who will just do lipo instead of going to the
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gym. Like I draw the line that because I can just go to the gym, but like straightening your nose,
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growing boobs, doing your hair. You can't do those. Hey, you woman diet, cut it, you get
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extensions and things. And I feel like men have a hard time if they want to do the hair transport
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thing. I think absolutely. Yeah. Why not? I think go for it. So, you've got this confident,
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nononsense persona. And what's the dark side of you that people don't see? I used to go out
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a lot and drink and party with my friends too much, but that's cuz it's been part of my life
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since I was like 17 years old. And I reflected on this about probably in August, my birthday,
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I was 34. And I realized that 17 years had passed. So I started drinking when I was like 15,
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but like 17 years when I could start going out. So for 17 years, I've been drinking and partying and
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going to all these events and going to all these influence and things when after the apprentice. So
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how much are you drinking? What are you drinking? No, not like I'm drinking every day, but I'm on
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about I'll go on a weekend. I'll be hammering on a Friday. It's no different to how it's just the
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norm where I'm from north up north. I'm guess the same down here. But in Manchester, everyone goes
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out and parties on the weekend and they get drunk and hung over and then you deal with it for two or
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three days. And I just thought at 34 I was like, it's been 17 years. I'm over this. Like when I
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was a holiday rep, it was a big part of my life. I worked in nightclubs and bars when I was younger
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as well in the UK. So all the time around me, I was doing bar crawls, booth cruises, boat parties,
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and But you're not doing drugs at this. Oh, no. I wasn't when I was younger. I've done drug of
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course I've done drugs when I was older. Everyone has. But what? No. But mo most of Manchester has.
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But I just thought to myself, I'm 34 and I'm like, I'm over this now. And I reflected on it. So I'd
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say the probably the darkest side of me was the was going out and drinking too much. I really do
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wear my heart on my sleeve. I just just I'm who I am. Do you know what I mean? So how did you stop
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this? Honest to God, it was just for me it was a moment of realization. I was at a festival with
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my friends and we've been drinking all weekend and I just thought I'm over this. I literally woke up
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the next day and I said, "I'm going guys." And I left the group chat the next day. I told them all
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that I'm just I'm going to be doing my own thing from now on. And it's not because wow. They're not
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to blame. It's just they're my friends from school from like younger 10 years ago. And I've changed
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in those 10 years. And I just don't and I don't want to put them down. They're great guys. But
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the most of the socializing is done around alcohol and partying and going out and drinking. Yeah. If
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you're in that crowd, you're going to get sucked. But that is the that's the crowd everyone's in. So
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if you're sober there, it's weird. Yeah. But even where I'm from, like most people are in that crowd
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and they just cling to friends because they're the friends. They stay with their friends from school.
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And I just thought it's like when people become work friends and you go out with work friends and
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then when you change jobs they're not your friends anymore. I don't want to I didn't want friends of
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circumstance or necessity. I'd like to choose who I want to be friends with and I'd like to
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surround myself with the five people who I want to be like because if I can do that then I know that
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I'll become the sixth as a teenager and whatever and growing up then I would go out with my friends
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and and I I did find that a significant number of them would okay alcohol whatever everyone
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was drinking but when it come like the drug side of things they'll take that to have that extra
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confidence and they would take that to have that extra energy and especially if you're like going
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partying the whole night in the nightclub and they would take these drugs through. And I just I don't
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know. I feel like for me, I always thought that if I went into any of those sorts of drugs cuz
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I'm like naturally like mad and hyperactive and all that. I just thought I would probably die.
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I'd probably have a heart attack really quickly. I can't even have a Red Bull. And I saw these guys
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drink that and I could party with them, but I did it naturally. I'm sure that they could also do it
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naturally, but I think it's a psychological thing, isn't it? for where I live, I think it's it's just
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the norm in Manchester especially. It's just the norm. Every single person like I I would go
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networking events and one of the first questions people are asking is who's getting a bag in. Okay.
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I don't want my daughter going to Manchester Uni. No, it's not that. It's just I don't know if it's
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just a city. Birmingham's no different. Like I meet business owners from Birmingham, London,
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and Manchester. And they're all they're all the same. Like half of them will be hardcore part
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animals who go out and do drugs. The other half maybe just don't drink full stop and therefore
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don't fall vow of that. But I think in Manchester especially, it's just a norm. Like it's just it's
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almost seen as drinking now. But again, that's a reflection that I was I think it is the norm.
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I think I personally just decided I'm over that life. Like I know it sounds silly. I've been this
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is a realization that came not just overnight. I've been thinking for for since I started my
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business. Oh, I need to get my [ __ ] together. I cuz I don't have a job anymore. I can go out and
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party whenever I want. I'm going out on a Tuesday night. But then after the first year of business,
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I'm like running myself out, burnt out. Second year, I'm like, I need to calm down with the
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drinking and partying. Yeah. And by year four, I'm going I just can't physically do it. I can't. You
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can't. You probably would. Look what happened to Liam Payne. It just carries on, doesn't it?
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It just carries on. If you are getting into it fully, that's the result, isn't it? But also,
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you got to remember that there's very few people that are well-known drug users that maintain the
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level of success. It's very few. I can't think of many. The only one I think was a little guy
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for Wall Street and even he went to prison in the end. So, Oh, yeah. I would say he's out now. He's
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doing quite well. Yeah. Yeah. Ripping people off again now. But I would say that if you look at
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the playing the odds, that's what I did when I was younger. I looked at playing the odds or I was a
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runaway basically who went traveling the world. And I thought if I don't go university, I might
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not get this job. But if I and I might lose to this other candidate has a degree, but if I get
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a degree, then we're on the same level. So I've always been trying to play the odds in life. And
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now I'm older. I'm going why would I put all the effort in when I'm younger to get these degrees
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and qualifications I don't really care about. I just did it to get on par with everyone else
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and be perceived to be the same as everyone else to then ruin it and put myself lower energy. Hung
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over for two or three days, not wanting to work on a Monday, Tuesday. I want to work Monday, Sunday.
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I want to be on the games 24/7, seven days a week. And I couldn't do that. I tell you what though,
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since I've quit drinking full stop, what we in October now, like my energy is through the roof.
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I'm back at the gym working out constantly and I watch I can see monitoring. Yeah. And I'm way
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ahead of myself in my workload. Usually I'm always behind, but now I'm ahead of everything. Nice. So,
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I can't see how that's not going to benefit me. Do you feel like some of the controversies that
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you've had have overshadowed your business side or do you think it goes hand inhand with it? No,
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I don't really care about anything like that. Like I I couldn't care less if you like me or
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hate me. I'm going to be a success regardless. My entire life people have told me what I'm doing is
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wrong. So, what is the difference? There's not I wouldn't say anything controversial. It's not
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like I've sacrificed a sheep on a farm. Oh, that's wy. It's not it's not like I've not like I've done
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anything super crazy. I've not gone a bender and Grand Theft Auto across London and stuff. Some of
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the things that you've done after like some of the things that you've done probably if I did that my
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parents would have a heart attack. Yeah, that's it. My mom always has a heart. My mom's used to
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has heart attacks. Yeah, she's used to it. But you got to remember there's one thing that's very
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different I think about me to other people is I've always believed in just doing things and seeing
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what happens. And so what I mean by that is as a kid I would come up with an idea. I I got arrested
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when I was 14 for stealing a dumper truck. I did I planned a heist. I got the whole school
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involved. I gave everyone walkie-talkies. I had a map. I learned how to drive using the internet.
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Found all because it started cuz I found a key on the floor. So, I've had this creative brain that
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allows me to go run away with me. And sometimes I didn't know how to harness that as a kid because
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obviously it was just me coming up with ideas and getting everyone to come together and rally
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around them. It's a fun project, but yeah, it's naughty. But at the time, you would think, "Wow,
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he got arrested. You're not allowed to hang out with him. He's naughty." But as an adult,
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my job is now to get creative, come up with these wild ideas, and make them a piece. Yeah. So,
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I don't think there's anything really that I've done that I regret at all. Your company is wild.
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It's wild in that way. It's supposed to be cuz it's marketing. Yeah. It's a nice I've built a
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business around the person I am, I think, because if I didn't, I wouldn't fit in anywhere. You
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have. So, you've called yourself The Apprentice's most trolled star. Oh, the press right now. given
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by Lord Sugar who joined in with a savage jibes online. Yeah. When you watched you on a task. Do
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you stand by that? So first things first, if you know anything about the press, they'll just write
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wherever they want. So any kind of headline with anything that says I apparently said something is
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probably Do you So do you think you were the most trolled star or not? No, I never said that. But
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you never said it. No. What? I don't even use the word trolled. But what I would say is I definitely
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got abused for tattoos. And I definitely got felt really sad for a long time because that story came
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out the fact what was it? It was because I was talking about tattoos and how it impacted me
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and I was like mentally there's a an unsuccessful person who's a billionaire literally putting you
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down in front of millions of people. Yeah. I felt like crap but I didn't say I was the most trolled
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person in the world. Do I think I was? No. Okay. Can Can we go back to Are you okay to go back to
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what he said? Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember much. Okay. Lord Sugar wrote on Twitter at the time
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publicly in front of all his followers. So Lewis, your tattoos are horrific. Tell me where I'm
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missing the point. Yeah. What does he look like? Question mark. So, the story starts where we're
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at a lake in Finland and the water is disgusting. Smells like [ __ ] This is their filming location
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and none of the girls want to get in the water. The producers are telling them to put these
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bikinis on and get in the water. Obviously, what do the producers want to do? They want to create a
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story and they want to make it sexy and sizzling. So, they're trying to get the girls in bikinis.
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The girls are all throwing their toys out saying, "No way we're doing that." And we've been eating
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[ __ ] for disgusting dirty water. So, I was like, "I'll just do it. I'll throw some shorts
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on. I'll get in the water. If I die, I'll get ill." Whatever. So, I'm running around on this
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on the episode in these horrible red shorts. And long story short, is I didn't want to get my body
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out. I didn't. But I just thought if I'd rather do it than they do it cuz we know millions of people
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are going to watch it, right? Yeah. So, anyway, I did that and then randomly when the episode airs,
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he just tweets that out. Yeah. I was driving at the time. I remember. And you responded
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with something along the lines of, "No one has the right to judge you or your body." Yeah. Yeah. Why
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was that statement important to you? Bear in mind the story I've just told. We knew at the time that
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it was going to be aired on TV and that millions of people watch it. And then the girls were saying
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like, "We don't want to be judged for our bodies and splashed across the media like this." So that
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was a conversation that we' had and it was in my head. So when he tweeted that, I just thought,
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"Who are you to judge someone else's appearance?" That's what I thought. Anyway, I didn't actually
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tweet back to him either. I just wrote it on my Twitter. I didn't even bother replying to him
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because I just didn't see it as worth But you got quite a good response. Yeah, because why wouldn't
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you? Why wouldn't you? If I just went that girl's fat on TV and I wrote it on Twitter, then what
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would happen? But like people are going to go who are you to judge that person? So who just because
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you're older and rich or whatever and you're from a different generation doesn't give you doesn't
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excuse you from judging someone. And I'm far from a snowflake as well. So So you did that. You stood
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up for yourself. Fair play. Yeah. Fair play to you. Brave. Okay. He came back with Lewis. Your
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tattoos tell a story. What are you a Kindle? Yeah. Yeah. You have the right to do what you want to
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your body. So, he's acknowledging that you have a right to do what you want with your body. He says,
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"I have the right to my opinion." Yeah. I say they're horrible. When you're 50 on the beach,
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you'll wear a t-shirt. You'll be an embarrassment to your kids. I think that's really harsh. Right.
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It's not even harsh. It's just like I do. I think that's harsh. I wouldn't even say that's harsh. I
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would say that's just being a [ __ ] Do you not agree with you basically said something,
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I've said something and then he's got he's doubled down his point and gone I'm going to continue
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doing this for no reason. Anyway, you can tell he doesn't write his own jokes cuz that wasn't funny.
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What are you a Kindle? Who even uses a Kindle in 2020? Also, the next part where he's saying,
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"I have the right to an opinion." 100%. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but we don't have the
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right to listen. We don't have to listen. I don't have to listen to your opinion. You have the right
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to shout it as much as you want around your own house, but the moment you start shouting it at me,
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I'm I've got a right to respond. But why did why was there something else between you guys
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if he came after you in that way? He never spoke to me the entire time. So, he's never spoken to
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you. just literally went off. Yeah. The only time we spoke was during the show when he was
20:04
usually bollocking me or or just talking for two seconds. As you will know, you don't get
20:08
to communicate with him. So yeah, for me, I was pretty stunned. Mainly because the reason why I
20:13
got upset at the time is because this is a guy I've looked up to a long time. So bear in mind,
20:17
like when I was younger, didn't know what I wanted to do, 20, I started reading all these business
20:21
books and his was one of them, autobiography. And I felt like I connected with that story of a guy
20:26
from no money building it up. But then actually, it's one of those, isn't it? like you just don't
20:30
expect the person that you think's amazing as well. Yeah. Look, if he's more conservative,
20:33
he doesn't like the tattoos, that's okay. But he does need to understand the power and impact that
20:39
he has. I don't know if he's playing into his own brand of being like, I'm super critical and formal
20:43
and conservative or whatever, but yeah, I think he owes you an apology. I think I think he So,
20:49
I think it's it's quite common knowledge that he drinks a lot and tweets on Twitter and then
20:53
he usually gets himself in all sorts of trouble. And then you responded, I thought your response
20:56
was the best thing you could have ever said because you just said, "Okay, boomer." Yeah,
21:00
literally that made a lot of headlines because Yeah, it was cuz it's really top at the time. It
21:04
was pretty topical. But yeah, literally. But he's forgetting when he's writing that he's insulting
21:09
thousands of people who have got tattoos who are over 50 and obviously those people have got kids
21:14
and they're like, "What the Yeah, he is actually. Yeah. And they were there with the tattoos. So
21:20
anyone who's watching, yeah, they were present on Twitter and they joined in and it was just wow. I
21:25
don't think it's harsh to go after you in that way. Nothing happened between you guys and he
21:28
just went and savaged you on 100%. And also that then skewered the experience me cuz up to that
21:35
point I'm like okay it's it's a bit annoying. It's a bit like a prison cuz you're locked in there all
21:38
the time. But apart from that it was fine. It was tiring. It was eating crap food. You didn't get to
21:42
sleep and it was like stressful. But apart from that, okay, I could put up with that. But then
21:47
to start getting abuse randomly online vis like from a from someone who's supposed to be like a
21:52
prominent prolific business owner that was a bit like this is [ __ ] now. Why have I why I didn't
21:56
sign up for that? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you think he'd he'll apologize? Why would he?
22:01
I think he's just one of those guys that's always been that way and will never change. But you know
22:04
what? Who cares? Look, it's okay to be He's got his personality, doesn't he's got his brand that's
22:08
a bit harsh or whatever. But I think like when you overstep that, then you probably should say sorry.
22:13
You know, maybe I did. I think you should. You say I'm unapologetic. I I've apologized
22:17
to people who have I've upset or offended by accident. If I've not realized I've done it,
22:20
I I'll personally message him and stuff like that. Yeah. I think Lord Sugar reminds me of my dad. My
22:24
dad's also quite a strict conservative guy like that and he'll speak his mind or whatever. But
22:28
like with him, I'll be like, "Dad, that's hurtful. If you have feelings, you need to apologize and
22:32
I'll sulk and stroy you until you and then he'll apologize or whatever." I think sometimes you can
22:37
bring the them to say sorry. I think Apprentice Brand if they're watching, they should he should
22:41
extend his heartfelt apology to you for making you feel so bad. not for he's allowed to his own
22:46
opinion but for doing it in the way he did it publicly. I I was gonna say I think there's one
22:50
thing that m makes me feel like it was a bit of a [ __ ] on everything because you he was almost
22:58
doing that he was almost trying to treat me like I was just someone there to be on TV but you're
23:02
forgetting he's he obviously if you'd understood you don't know this at the time but for the last
23:07
eight years I've been trying to build a business I've been trying to learn about business I've been
23:10
reading every book I can going to every seminar I could speak to every business owner interviewing
23:14
them on YouTube and then I went and started freelancing and I was trying to build a business
23:17
all my life I've been building towards this moment and I thought this could be the chance to start
23:20
a business. And I think I feel like it was almost just like he had assumed that I was just some guy
23:26
pretending to be on TV when that was the least of my concerns. All I wanted to do was build. That's
23:32
like I say to anyone that I've had on the podcast that are ex apprentice candidates. The apprentice
23:36
brand looks after the apprentice brand and Lord Sugar's brand and those are the priorities and
23:41
the apprentice candidates. You're on your own and you've got to find your way and then still
23:45
come out of it and try and run a business, get it, you know, continue. Sometimes it works,
23:49
sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes it's really goes against you. Sometimes it helps, you know,
23:53
it it varies, but they're not there to look after you. I would say both of those brands are dead in
23:58
the water. The apprentice is on it. No one watched it. It's kind of a bit boring now. It's not even
24:02
boring. It's just crap. Have you tried watching it? is actually crap. And then on top of that,
24:06
Lord Sugar's brand is that he's just some angry guy. That's his brand now. That's his legacy. I
24:11
think respect for everything is achieved. But just because you achieve something doesn't mean you
24:14
have to become a dick. Yeah. Only fans. So after your spat sugar, you went on only fans. Yeah. As
24:22
a link onto the story of the no one has a right to judge your body. I thought it was I thought it was
24:27
funny. Okay. Actually, what came first? Okay. Wait. Okay. So after this tattoo came first,
24:32
was that revenge to him? No, it was Think about this, right? I've got a marketing agency. I do PR
24:36
stunts and publicity stunts, right? So, what what can I do if I've got a guy give me tattoos or get
24:41
a face picture of his and to be fair, my actual tattoos are like bits of them are all things. He
24:46
feels that he's inked into your skin. His image is inked into because of what he said. I don't
24:52
think he thought twice. Why don't you take a photo of the tattoo and send it to him? Oh,
24:57
ask him when he'll apologize. I think I think that's five. No, but No, but I'm thinking like
25:03
if you live in the past, then you'll never No, no, but it's a product that's on your skin. Yeah,
25:07
but who cares? All of these things are different things that have happened to me. Do you like it?
25:11
What do you think? I would assume that he's seen it, but then and then the only fans then came
25:15
next where I was just like, what else can I do to get some attention here? Wow. Okay. Yeah. So, you
25:20
did that. That's that's another Yeah, man. Okay. So, as a business guy, because you just said it
25:26
yourself and then you went on only fans, like how did you connect the two and take that risk? Like,
25:33
how did you go, I'm a business guy, I'm going to do Only Fans. Like, what in your mind took you
25:37
to the two? And why did you think it was going to work? And did it work? Yeah, of course. PR
25:41
stunts. So, I'm looking for opportunities to go, how can I grab attention and bring it over to what
25:46
I'm doing? So, Lord Sugar wants to talk about the apprentice. The apprentice want to talk about the
25:50
apprentice. I want to talk about what I'm doing now. So I want to keep dragging people back to to
25:55
us and to what I'm doing and that's never changed. So it's quite good in my head right at this
26:01
time. So what was I was 20 28 when I was on the apprentice. So this played when I was 29. COVID
26:07
was hitting and my job had just been taken away from me and I had no way of surviving. Literally
26:12
no way. No one was hiring people. I couldn't get furow. So a lot of people in the same situation me
26:18
millions fell through this crack where if you just change jobs recently you couldn't get furow. So I
26:22
was eligible for whatever the jobsekers thing is called now or go and work in a supermarket.
26:26
So I was thinking I've got no money in the bank so I might as well try I might as well try and
26:30
start a business. At the time everyone was set up only fans accounts so I thought I'll do that and
26:34
actually funny enough loads of people came through and that actually allowed me to start my business
26:37
survive and so I can start my business and drags people through. So what is he doing now? And the
26:41
same thing with with the tattoo stunt. It was to bring people across from this story about negative
26:46
tattoos to we do a PR stunt cuz in my head I was thinking I'm going to build a marketing agency in
26:50
the future. I want to do PR stunts. I want to do experiential things. I want to grab attention in
26:55
the most weird and wonderful ways. Um, so I was trying to start doing things like that because I
26:59
thought I'd use them in my portfolio, but to be honest, I've not had to. Like, so how long were
27:03
you on there for? How long did Oh, like only a couple months literally. And then I just closed
27:06
the account. How was it? No. People only Only only fans, by the way, doesn't mean you have to
27:10
have your dick out and wave it around. People are just on there just sharing normal clothes shots.
27:13
But the perception of the name Only Fans was why I did it cuz everyone's naked on there, right? Okay.
27:17
Yeah. So, you didn't And then you got tired of it or what? No, I didn't need it. I just did it. Set
27:22
it up and then let it drop off and then moved on. But all my life I'm looking for things like
27:26
this all the time. That is controversial. That's why I said so you do controversial things. Yeah.
27:29
But I'm trying to get I'm trying to get attention. I'm trying to grab attention. My job for a living
27:35
my job is to grab attention and harness that and project it somewhere. Now that might be
27:39
increasing views, increasing sales. It might be in people getting job applicants. Whatever it is,
27:44
I have to grab attention in a very noisy world and power it through. And so that's what I do. That's
27:50
what I was doing and that's what I continue to do. So it could be anything. It could be, for example,
27:54
there was another one. There's another company that a friend of mine was doing a campaign on.
27:58
There was they were working with a client who did sex toys and they were advertising a job for sex
28:02
toy tester and that was the PR campaign and they asked me to front it. So I'm there with a dildo on
28:07
Instagram. Who wants to be a sex toy tester? And we again you use that to your to your to
28:12
your advantage. But these campaigns happen all the time. Unfortunately, the press like to write about
28:17
negative and sex. So that's what you go down the lines of. I think your brand is bold in that way
28:22
and it is like that and and you've got the tattoos and you I think it fits that sort of thing. It's
28:28
you can get away with it. People are getting people are getting wise the fact that if I'm doing
28:31
something that obviously if you just met me in 28 20 when I was 28 29 on the apprentice if you just
28:37
heard of me then you it's all new. But if you'd heard of me prior to that you would know that I've
28:42
consistently been doing these things. So none of it's different. Listen I'm from that world.
28:47
I get it. It's I understand PR comms marketing. I understand how literally it's smart. You have
28:54
had attention. So a couple of years prior to that, the BBC were reporting that I got lost in Syria.
28:59
A couple of years before that, the that I was in the press for swimming in a shopping mall. Yeah.
29:04
But these are things that I was like, "Oh, there's something in this. You can do something. You can
29:09
grab the attention. You can push it somewhere you want it to go." And that's all a marketer does.
29:13
So I can't see how that's any different to what I wanted to do for a career. Well, you're using your
29:16
own brand to do. You're risking your brand or not risking I don't know. You're using yourself. Yeah.
29:22
To put knees. It is a risk in some for some of the things, but I don't think so. There's
29:26
nothing that's going to ever affect like unless I do something illegal. Yeah. And even then, think
29:31
of the people that do things that are illegal and then they still come back. Take You said Wolf Wall
29:36
Street guy before you said it yourself. He's doing quite well for himself. He's only doing quite well
29:38
for himself because he quit committed such major fraud that he had a movie made about him and then
29:42
he harnessed that attention and now you believe instant salesman but now you believe him to be
29:46
a good person but he's not he's still I don't believe him to be a good person but people will
29:50
still buy from him I watched his wife's podcast it was really interesting to have her point of view
29:53
he's a very difficult man but what he can do is sell at the end of the day all the stuff is sales
29:57
isn't it it's sales good at it or you're not good I think some people like to be controversial and
30:02
negative and be infamous some people try and use PR firms will try and use controversy to
30:07
get headlines for their clients For me, I just do it for fun. Yeah, I think you're having fun.
30:11
I think you're having fun. So, another thing that you've said, you've publicly blasted the BBC's The
30:16
Apprentice, claiming you were set up to look like a deep beep head. Were you actually set up? Yeah.
30:23
So, I will actually genuinely say that we were made to look like idiots, I'll say, instead of
30:29
swearing. So, um, at one point it became, look, so you we know we're we signed up for this show where
30:36
you get to make look stupid, right? We're more than happy with that. If you make a mistake, call
30:39
us out, look, make us look stupid, that's fine. What we didn't like was we were noticing that
30:44
they were purposely trying to make things happen, moving stuff, causing issues, sabotaging. Yes. So,
30:49
so the producers were getting the runners to purposefully get in the way of things or
30:53
sabotage things or it became most apparent when we were on a train where both teams were on the train
30:58
together. So really, you could walk from one end to talk to the other end if you really wanted to,
31:02
but you weren't allowed to communicate. And then they were causing delays and problems. And I lost
31:06
my rag that day. And I remember Claude literally pulling me to the side saying, "If you lose your
31:11
[ __ ] again at the production crew, Lord Sugar will go mad. So don't do that again." Cuz I was
31:16
like, "What the is going on here? Why?" And the problem that's not a problem either. If you're
31:21
sabotaging it, fine. The biggest problem for me was that it's been you are gas lit to believe
31:26
that what you believe is wrong. and they keep telling you that you're imagining it. That's
31:30
not happen. Do you know what I mean? And then because you're locked in this space that starts
31:33
really playing tricks on you, it messes with your head. Yeah. As a group, we came together and we
31:37
sat I remember we sat there whoever the production person was at the time and we were just like this
31:41
is ridiculous. It's got to stop. We are happy to play a game show. We're happy to look like idiots.
31:45
We're not happy to be to be sabotaged because you got to remember like at the time I was starting a
31:50
business, it was fine. But if for example I was a successful marketing business owner at that point
31:54
already and I've got clients on the outside and I'm taking part in the show and then they sabotage
31:59
you, they can lose you real life clients. They could really affect your reputation and that's not
32:04
in my head that's not okay. Totally. Totally. When I raised these concerns, I used to call them over
32:11
and I used to give me the camera piece of camera and I used to talk directly to people behind.
32:15
Yeah. And I said to him, "Stop it. You've done this. You've done this. You've done this. You've
32:20
done this. you've done this in your documents this, you stop it and if you put that scene in,
32:24
I'm going to walk and if you do that, I'm going to come after you. Yeah. And it was always like
32:28
that. And then once I got out of that, obviously I walked. I was like, I'm not taking this stuff.
32:33
And I had a lot going on at the time. Okay. The comeback was that I'm too analytical. Oh, you're
32:39
just you're very analytical to have because they know that my background was in building systems
32:43
implementation and analyzing things. Oh, you're very analytical. But yeah, gaslet interesting. I
32:50
I think interesting term I remember saying at the time is that you've got a room full of people who
32:55
run their own businesses or want to run their own businesses. Most of us some of their some of them
32:59
are just for the rides to be famous I imagine. But they were definitely trying to do that. Oh
33:02
yeah. But the majority of the people in the room I said they're business owners. You're trying to
33:06
make them look like you're trying to pull the wool over their eyes and gaslight them. It's not going
33:12
to go down. It's not going to go down well. Is it? I suppose once you get in there, sorry for
33:15
interrupting, you realize that you're up against it's not fair anymore and you're trying to just
33:20
maintain that reputation as best you can cuz then it's then that you realize, wow, yeah, I'm being
33:25
set up in a way. I think I enjoyed it at first. It was like I think it was like an escape room.
33:29
I enjoy challenges. I enjoy puzzles and stuff like that. I just didn't again I just didn't enjoy the
33:34
if you go into a casino and then they say oh you have to use this I don't know I'll give you
33:39
an example like this specific deck of cards and you're not allowed to play with anyone else around
33:42
you apart from these people and you've got to wear these glasses and you go this isn't fair I want to
33:47
just play the game and I just wanted to play the game I didn't I understand they're making a TV
33:51
show but then they there's a level between okay naturally letting things happen and then trying
33:55
to cause things to happen waste our time puts it all down mix and we've already given it's great
33:59
TV because when you're sitting there watching You love to watch people fail and be really dumb and
34:03
you go that says a lot more about society than it does about the show. By the way, if anyone out
34:06
there is listening or anything, if you ever want to really prove a point, want to see if I'm right,
34:11
let me Doesn't matter what you do for a living, let me come and follow you with a camera for a
34:15
day, just for a few hours, even like five hours. I'll film them and then I'll edit it and I'll make
34:20
you look like you are an absolute simple. It's very easy. Oh, it is actually very easy. You
34:26
realize that the power of editing. You also said that it's like being in a prison. Did you find
34:30
you were like trapped in a prison then? Yeah, I said it before, but yeah. No, 100%. So, you're
34:33
not allowed to leave the house on your own. You want a haircut, you got to book it in and you get
34:36
to go in a week and Okay. You want to go for food or snacks? You can't. But then how did you have a
34:40
fling and Oh, that was whilst we were abroad. So, cuz you out of the but you're still on the show.
34:46
Yeah. Yeah. I just So they they didn't follow you around anymore cuz we weren't allowed to do they
34:50
locked us in our rooms. I'm I'm from this sort of background of if you tell me I'm not allowed to
34:54
do something or try and lock me in, I'm going to probably try and break out. So, naturally, I'm on
34:58
the show. They locked me in my hotel room in South Africa and I'm going no in Finland it was actually
35:02
both times I got locked in and I just went this and I like latched the door open and pegged it so
35:07
you couldn't open and close it and then crawled down the corridor past the producers and then I
35:10
just went out for the day. Stop. Yeah, I will not do what you tell me to do and I know it's
35:15
very childish but I just that's kind of part of what I'm about. I think so. Yeah. Controversial.
35:22
How do you like being a business owner now? I don't like it. I think it's hardest thing I've
35:26
ever done. I think hard isn't it? Yeah, I think I always thought being a business owner is about
35:31
creating a product and selling a ser creating a product or service and selling it. That's
35:34
part of it. But actually once you do sell it, it's managing relationships. It's maintaining yourself,
35:41
keeping yourself on the ball time project. My my jobs majority is project management and then in
35:47
there trying to find room to be creative for the clients because we're bringing the creativity to
35:51
the table. It's a whole so in the last the first couple of year first year was a culture shock
35:55
massive to me because I'd already had freelance experience and I've been working for a long time
35:59
so I just thought I'd know what I was doing but massive cult shock on managing relationships you
36:03
can't tell people to go themselves when they you definitely can't shout at them down the phone I
36:06
found that out as well. Second year was realizing that my time was myap I was hitting capacity and
36:13
that's my so I have to manage my time now to be able to grow and then now in year three and into
36:18
year four the focus has been on growing the brand how I want to grow it the service how I want to
36:22
grow it the what I offer as a specialism and make it really unique to it's very different to what
36:27
anyone else offers out there and I've been working really hard on that and then on top of that I'm
36:31
managing to to pull things together not be scared that a lot of things like I'm finding it really
36:36
exciting because every year. I learned something new. At the moment, it's all about making things
36:39
happen. Like for example, we flew a drone carrying cocktails people's houses the other day and I was
36:44
like, can you legally carry cocktails by drone? Who do I need? Do I need a pilot? Do I need to
36:48
ask the police, the council? How can I take off? Where can I land? And all these qu So all the time
36:53
I'm problem solving and trying to figure things out. And that that that really lends itself to
36:56
me. Making money. Yeah, I have been. I've not been there's literally been no other way because don't
37:02
forget I lost my job in 2020. So if I wasn't making money, I wouldn't be able to continue
37:07
living. Yeah. It's hard because at the end of the day, no matter what business you're doing, you're
37:11
asking someone else to give you money. And then you're responsible for that thing. Yeah. I have
37:16
I've been able to support myself for the last four years pretty comfortably. That's not what I want
37:20
to do though. This isn't a for me. This is not a hobby. This is not a side hustle. What do you
37:24
want to do? I want to grow it massively. Um, and to be honest, the sad thing is everyone that I've
37:29
come across, that's not everyone, but most people I've come across that seem to be doing very well
37:33
in in that my space have an early stage investor, a rich mom and dad, partner who gave them cash or
37:39
a massive credit card. Like I've I've not had any of that. I started during COVID. No one wanted to
37:44
buy marketing. I had to pay the bills regardless. And I've managed to do that since day one. Now I'm
37:49
at a point where I'm like, actually, we've got this great track record, this great portfolio.
37:52
We're speaking to these big national brands and international brands now, which them conversations
37:56
weren't happening a year ago. I think we're at a tipping point where actually organically I'm
38:00
able to start hiring staff very soon. And I'd love to have investors and and just overnight grow it,
38:05
doing all these crazy campaigns, but that's just not the reality for most people. So, I have to
38:09
organically grow it. I would say that's personally irrelevant to to you because I think everyone's
38:15
situation is what other people are doing and how they got there. Maybe they did have that, maybe
38:19
they didn't. It's it's completely irrelevant. What I would say is actually extremely relevant is
38:25
which country you're starting a business in. What time you're starting whether it's co or 10 years
38:30
ago, 15 years ago if you started, it's completely different to now because the landscape's changed,
38:35
the competition's changed. The types of things that you put there, the skills that are needed.
38:40
It's like now starting a business now, it's a it's harder I think than I I've been reading I've been
38:46
reading a lot, especially in the UK. Yeah, I was going to say I've been reading a lot about the
38:49
new UK laws and stuff like that. The moment I feel like my business isn't welcome in the UK,
38:55
I'm just going to take it elsewhere. And I know that pretty much every other person I know with
38:59
a business is looking at leaving the UK. It's a taxes, isn't it? It's a taxes and it's not
39:03
it doesn't feel very entrepreneurial. When you go like to the UAE, you visit, there's like a sizzle
39:08
in there. You almost feel it. You can almost smell the money. You go there, like you feel energized.
39:12
You go to the States, then you come here and it's a bit like sort of beaten with a stick
39:17
and everything is in the UK. They're going to tax water. If they can text them, they text tax text
39:21
tax text tax text tax text tax text tax text tax text tax text tax text tax text at the moment. I
39:22
see it's not it's like almost an attack on the population. Like I see speed camera vans every
39:26
other road now. You know why? They've got people they've got people running the country that aren't
39:29
entrepreneurs. They have literally no clue what I personally won't be living in the UK forever. I
39:34
think I'm lucky to be born. I love the UK though. Disclaimer, I love the UK. I couldn't give a about
39:39
protected. No, like I think look, it's been ruined through a myriad of ways over the last few years.
39:46
And I think it's been one cluster [ __ ] to the next. Yeah, that wasn't a swear word. That's
39:50
adjective. However, I will say I'm lucky to be born here. That in itself is more privileged than
39:56
what 99% of the population, the world population, isn't it? Something like that. So, I'm born in a
40:01
culture where I can grow a business. I can I do have house. I can buy food. So, that in itself
40:06
gives me I'm a white straight male. I'm not white by the way, but I always say am. What is your
40:11
I'm half Asian. Are you really? No one knows that though. Now they do. No, no, tell us. I only ever
40:16
use it on loan applications because diversity. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, my dad was Asian, but
40:21
yeah. Yeah, I don't really talk about that. But the point is I'm already lucky compared to most
40:25
people in the world. So, that's great. And I can't bite that the hand that feeds you. But at the
40:30
same time, the UK has no support. No, I've tried every single program I can think of in my areas
40:35
for business support, business growth. The only thing I did get ages ago was a was a small loan
40:39
and that just about covered the bills to survive. And to be honest, I'm just I'm over it. I know a
40:44
lad in Saudi Arabia who started a cyber security company and got given a massive unit to work from.
40:49
His boardroom was bigger than I've ever seen and a huge amount of startup capital. Yeah, there does
40:54
need to be the right landscape, a place where the taxes are nice and low, where you're encouraged
40:59
to take on employees cuz now they make it more difficult for you to want to take on a full-time
41:03
employee because they you get punished if you let them go. And I'm sorry, firing is a real
41:08
necessity. Like sometimes you got to fire people because they just don't fit. And if you keep them
41:12
on forever, it's just baggage that's going to drag that business down. The job of every business is
41:16
to make money full stop. That is doesn't matter what you're doing, you need to make money. And if
41:21
you've got all this baggage and all these people that are just dragging you down and very difficult
41:25
to fire them, that just changes everything. But in terms of your experience business so far, like
41:31
what's the biggest mistake you've made? I think it would be not taking it as serious as I could have.
41:38
And like I I've already alluded to it right at the beginning of the conversation. For the first year,
41:42
I just t it like I was free of a job when actually I should have been the other way around. I should
41:48
have been working I was working twice as hard, don't get me wrong, but then going out and
41:53
partying with your friends on a Tuesday and being hung. It's there's a lot of traps to fall into.
41:57
Okay, the traps that I found were networking. You go to networking things because you believe that
42:02
might be a way of getting leads. However, a lot of people go to networking as a way of escaping
42:06
the realities of their harsh business that the harsh realities of business. So, they want to
42:10
get drunk. They want to get up for an entire two days and they'll all there's a lot of alcohol
42:16
involved. There's a lot of partying involved in the business world, especially in media. Yeah.
42:19
And it's that in itself is a trap because you believe you're networking so it's not bad. But
42:23
actually getting drunk on a Tuesday and being hung over till Thursday is pretty bad for business. So,
42:27
there's the realization of I need to that now I'm taking life a lot more seriously. I also
42:34
think the biggest mistake I made in year one was letting everything like all my things fade away
42:38
like my things. So what I mean by that is like my hobbies, my the things I want to learn the skills.
42:44
Business is a massive part of your life and you do feel like you live it every minute of every
42:48
day because it's not long it's no longer a job but I now purposely make time to learn something new
42:53
every 6 months to a year and I challenge myself to the most ridiculous things. What are your hobbies
42:58
and what things that you now? Okay. I'm four years in playing guitar and I'm all right now. I learned
43:04
to ice skate and started playing ice hockey. I got me my own boots. I obviously I ski and
43:08
ride motorcycles, but that was before I started a business. Oh, I'm learning German. I have a
43:12
tutor every Sunday. I'm learning to fly planes. Seriously? Yeah, man. I'm halfway through my
43:17
pilot's license and you got a lot of exams. I've got only two exams left and I've got I got to do
43:21
another 20 hours though. Have you always been this like quite hectic and like it's not hectic. I just
43:26
I want to live every moment of life. I want to do what? Oh, tie boxing. I started tie boxing as well
43:31
recently. For me, there's so many things that I want to do and the business is a big part of that.
43:38
That's some of my biggest goals, but it's not the be all and end all yet that allows other things to
43:42
happen. But I in the first year I was so focused on that was my dream and my goal and my ambition
43:47
that I forgot all these side things I can do them now. So to anyone thinking of going on reality TV,
43:52
would you would you encourage them to enter that world or be wary or what? I don't know
43:58
anymore. When I was younger, it was like one of my bucket list things. It was go to the gym, get big,
44:02
and then go on a reality show one day, start a business. These were things I was ticking off.
44:06
For me, it was a bucket list thing. I think it's a great way to make great people. You just got to
44:09
remember that no matter what you do, no matter what show you go on, you're not going to get
44:13
really to show your story. You just got to have fun with it. I guess if I was going to do another
44:17
one, I'd want to make sure it's something that is just fun. Even if I'm being made to look a or
44:23
even if I it's being edited so I look incompetent, whatever. As long as I'm having fun because it's
44:28
an experience that I wanted to do, then yeah, if it's an experience that you want to do because
44:32
you're trying to be famous or you want to be known for something and just you got to remember that's
44:36
outside of your control. For me, with the whole reality TV thing, I would say that you've got to
44:41
be very careful who you give your brand to because like you're saying, the editing can make anyone
44:48
look bad. And I've learned that I am not Like it's like it's such a trust. It's such a the brand
44:55
two brands collaborating even out there in the business world. You know how it is. And you are a
44:58
brand and you're collaborating with another brand and I would really check the T's and C's. I'd be
45:03
more careful and preferably not give my brand to anyone ever again and own my own content. There is
45:09
one thing I would do. What? I would do Dragon's Den. Thousand% thousand%. I've got this product
45:15
idea. It's been pissing me off for ages. And the thing is here's another annoying thing. trying to
45:19
stay focused on one thing and not let yourself get distracted. Yes. But I've got this business idea.
45:23
It's been burning in my head for ages and I'm trying not to do it because I want to focus on
45:26
growing this business first and then do that. But I would I do dragons then because no matter how
45:30
much you edit it, like you can make it like you fail, you make it like you succeeded, whatever.
45:34
That is a great opportunity to show something that you've created. And I love that. I love that.
45:39
Whereas the apprentice, you don't get that same thing, right? You don't get to talk about your
45:43
real business, give your real name. You get to say what you do. The only way people find out what
45:47
you do is if it comes to your social media because the rest of the time you're being made look. Yeah,
45:50
true. The other reality show you did was The Great Sex Experiment. I have to be honest,
45:54
I've never heard of that. So, what is that? I've never watched it. I've never heard of what
45:58
that that was a show where at the time they were like, "Oh, we're doing a like a dating show. I was
46:03
annoyed. It was summer. I was having a right." I was just really wound up about business and I just
46:07
I went and joined on. At the time it was called something else like random and then it became
46:11
that which is an awful name. I didn't really do anything interesting to be honest. I just drank
46:15
parted with all the guys that were there as a cast. It was during co as well so you couldn't
46:20
really meet anyone. So nothing else to do. Yeah. Yeah. My story is not really I got drunk. I
46:23
snugged an old woman. It made it to the papers. It gave you press. It gave you It was more just
46:29
controversial. Sometimes things don't need to have a reason. Like I just went I'm not doing anything
46:33
like why not? What's the worst that can happen? Yeah. I really I like I like in your life you are
46:38
like I said in the beginning you are really not you're unashamed to be yourself. you are happy to
46:44
take on these risks. They're not risks to you, but to do all these wild things and and it fits your
46:49
brand and I think you've definitely got something there with that brand of yours. I feel I think but
46:55
this is the thing is some people try to build a brand and some people try to build their personal
47:00
brand around what they want to be perceived as. Some people try and build a brand around what they
47:03
want to perceive to be. I have to build a brand and a business around who I am because if I don't,
47:08
you're either going to really like me or you're really not going to like me. I don't care either
47:12
way because no matter what happens, I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing and I'm happy doing
47:16
that. But if I didn't build my brand around who I am, then if I got a business and I decide I know,
47:21
I'm going to put myself naked on a billboard. That was one of the things we did as well. Put
47:26
myself naked on a billboard. If my brand wasn't me, then that would have kickback.
47:32
There'd be consequences. I might lose clients. But because my clients know that's who I am,
47:36
I could literally streak through I could go to a I could go to an award ceremony and pick up an award
47:43
with my hanging out. I definitely could probably get arrested, but the point No, I could do that,
47:48
but my clients wouldn't leave because they know that's that I'll be doing it for some sort of
47:52
marketing purpose. And I think that's a power in itself. No, I get it. And but but I understand
47:57
why a lot of people don't like that. Yeah. But listen, you're going to music artists and you've
48:01
got like the Taylor Swifts and then you've got the Amy Wine Houses and you've got the Elton Johns.
48:07
You've got you've these are such different brands and they are all successful in their own way and
48:12
they appeal to their market and marketing and you've definitely got a wide section. Everyone
48:18
with tattoos, that's like your I think market in a way. I think there there are rappers who are
48:25
literal murderers who are famous and have a huge fan base even though they've been proven guilty
48:29
of murdering someone. So if you can murder someone and be successful and have a your brand that way
48:36
and you've murdered someone, I'm pretty sure me doing silly little things whenever I find it funny
48:40
isn't that bad. Yeah. We don't want to encourage No, we don't encourage. But if you come at me, I'm
48:44
going to No, I'm joking. No, but I did and things like that. Yeah. more that you are yourself,
48:49
the more push back you'll notice because more people are hearing about you. And unfortunately,
48:54
as you grow and you come through that, a lot of time all you hear is the negative. But actually,
48:58
there's a lot of positive in there. And a lot of time for me, I find that I get people approach me
49:02
and say, "Oh, I saw this happen." And it's almost like you give them the ability to say, "I can be
49:07
myself." I just I'm just sick of fake. I don't have a telephone voice. You ring me, I'll go,
49:12
"Hey." Because the telephone voice to me is fake. I don't want any fake, any falsehoods. I've got a
49:17
group chat with all the people that I've met in business that come to my events. And if they try
49:20
and post a link to their social media, I'll delete it because I don't want to have this fake facade
49:25
of, "Oh, let's like each other's [ __ ] cuz we're not It's not fake. I'm a real person. It's a real
49:29
connection. I won't come to your house and go, hey, will you like my LinkedIn post?" For me,
49:32
I'm just done with the fake. Like, a brand is a brand. Yeah, I guess you could call what I have
49:36
a brand, but it's not. It's just me. If you meet me now, sometimes I'm high in energy and sometimes
49:40
I'm low and tired, but it's going to be me. I'm gonna swear by accident constantly because even
49:44
though I said I wasn't going to, I don't mean to. And I think it's your brand. It's your brand. But
49:49
is it or is it just me? Is a brand supposed to be just so true to your core values that it's that's
49:55
what people connect with? But unfortunately, we try to manipulate it because we want people to
49:58
connect. But if you manipulate it so much so it's not you anymore, then actually like Lord Sugar,
50:03
it's a massive disconnect. like my impressions and his perceptions of who he is as a person based on
50:08
his brand was a massive letdown with how he acted online because it wasn't in my eyes who he was.
50:13
True. Well, I think he Yeah, that's taking too far. But just to end on that note cuz I think
50:17
it's become very much about being yourself, not apologizing for yourself, allowing yourself to be
50:22
true to yourself, to the things that you want to do, to take the risks, to go for stuff, to expand
50:27
in that personality bubble or whatever it is. But there's a thing about having the confidence
50:31
to do that. And then there's the other thing about having the confidence to put that forward into the
50:37
world because obviously then you've got eyes on you. You put yourself out there. You have a big
50:40
personality. You do it. You're doing something and the people are looking and then the talking
50:44
starts and all that stuff. If anyone ever gets really bored and you want to scroll back through
50:47
700 posts on Instagram. There's two posts that my Instagram starts with. The first is a note from my
50:53
notes, screenshot of my notes. And when I was 23 years old, I decided I wasn't going to do the same
50:59
as everyone else. Full stop. And I wrote this huge long manifesto essentially and I screenshotted and
51:04
I shared it social media because I said this is the most visible way I can share who I'm going
51:07
to be when I get older. It's still there now. And then the second post following that so you'll see
51:12
who I am as a kid cuz it's like I refuse to grow up. I refuse I will tell silly jokes and then the
51:17
next post is first they will ignore you then they will laugh at you. Then they will fight
51:22
you and then you will win. And that is the process that every single person if you want to achieve in
51:27
any area you will go through. I if you point me to one successful person, I will and I will show
51:32
you a million critics of that person. Yeah. First they will ignore you, then they will laugh at you
51:37
and that most people drop off at the laughing bit because it's too much. When they start to fight
51:41
you, that's when you really go, "Maybe I shouldn't do this." And then they just drag you back. They
51:45
drag you back into their world. But then event if you can push through that, you will win. And
51:49
it's just that simple. Yeah, they do try to drag you back in their world because why should you
51:53
get to do something different? Why should you get to be successful in that space? Why are you
51:56
that way? And I'm not that I don't like that. And that's what all this a lot of the lash out
52:00
and trolling is all about. It's why do you get to do that and I don't. That's how it what it
52:04
boils down to. But actually any single successful person in the world, show me them and show me one
52:10
without a I'm talking about millions of critics. Any single one of them will have a million critics
52:14
because you cannot be visual. You cannot grow. You cannot be obvious in the world and have everybody
52:20
like you. It just is not possible. Yeah. You can't be visible and not be talked about. And
52:27
if you're not talked about, you're not visible. And that's not a good thing. Yeah, man. Actually,
52:31
not everyone wants to be visible, but then it's a space for those who want to be, isn't
52:35
it? Even in your industries, even the ones that are faceless and you don't have a personal brand,
52:39
in their industries, they'll experience those things. Yeah. Yeah. Lewis, it's been educational.
52:45
You've been It's been very interesting speaking to you. It's been really interesting and I love
52:49
the whole perspective on the being yourself. Who knows if I'm right? I'll find out in 10 years.
52:55
I'm going to watch this, by the way. I'm gonna I save stuff like this to watch back in five and 10
52:59
because I want to know if what I said was right. Yeah. Also to see how far you've come. Good. We'll
53:05
do that later. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you. [Music]