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SMNTY Classics: Hyper Independence · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and not come stuff.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I never told affection.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I heard you. And today we're bringing back a shorter
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: episode we did on hyper independence because we just did
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: an episode on codependence and I just as I was
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: looking into it, I was thinking, I can see how
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: this is also a kind of branch of this of
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: this big puzzle that we're talking about, is what is
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: hybrid dependence and why are women in trauma specifically involved
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: with it? So please enjoy this classic episode.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Stuff I never told your protection of iHeartRadio.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: And welcome to another Monday Mini where I'm going to
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: talk about how TikTok has attacked me.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Okay again ran TikTok No.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: So there was a video not too long ago where
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: they were talking about how some and they were specifically
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: talking about women in relationships cannot function in relationships or
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: art can't do healthy relationships because of hyper independence. And
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: it is exactly what you think it is. It is
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: when an individual is extremely self reliant and a voice
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: going to other people for support or help. And just
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: for this Monday Minui, just so you know, I am
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: taking a chunk of our information from two articles, once
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: from Sandstonescare dot com and the other one is brain
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Means magazine dot com brings with a z oh yeah
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  Speaker 3: magazine dot com where we talk about what hyperindependence is
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  Speaker 3: and they talk about what that looks like in relationships
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  Speaker 3: and what that looks like with trauma, because you know,
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: we love talking about trauma.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we talk about.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: In that Sandstone article, it says hyperindependence in a woman
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: is where she cannot or will not accept help, preferring
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: to do it all herself, and typically creates a strong,
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: superhuman persona.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I know you know what we're talking about. People. I
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: know you know, because again I felt attacked. I know
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: you do too.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Hyperindependence is often a childhood trauma response, though societal messaging
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: and conditioning are also worthy culprits, so it may not
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: necessarily completely trauma. We're talking about neglect, we're talking about abuse.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Obviously extreme neglect is high key in this too, but
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: also just societal messaging and conditioning. So we know, as women,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: we are told that we need to be responsible or caretakers,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: and we get that at a very young age. So
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: even if you think you had the normalist of the
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: relationships and normalist of childhood experiences being handed at baby
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: doll or being handed cookware and such. Couldn't imply that
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: you were supposed to care for other people. So you
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: should care for only yourself, not necessarily need help. You've
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: got to teach yourself right right. Of course, It continues
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: stemming from situations that led her to believe she could
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: only rely on herself to meet her knees or get
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: things done. Somewhere along the way, she found trusting in
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: others too difficult or too painful. Over time, this belief
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: leads to her needing greater control over her outcomes.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: And external circumstances.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: So I must say type a people here when we
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: talk about the need to make everything perfect or look perfect,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: or do it right the first time, no mistakes whatsoever,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: because if you make a mistake, it shows that you're
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: a lesser person. Again, this is me calling myself out
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: as well, because I'm one of those like if I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: think I'm not going to be good at it, I
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: will never do it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: You will not get me to do it.
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  Speaker 3: I will sit there and stare at you like a
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: like a like I'm sleeping like a zombie because I'll
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: be like, nah, nah, if I don't look good.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. I think it's very obvious.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: That sometimes when we when we're telling our kids to
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: shake it off, like there's a balance in these things.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: But if you're overly dependent on your child, and when
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: we talked about with parentified kids, this is going to
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: be what is led the hyper independence and again.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: But not great, not great.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: So here are some of the common signs of hyperindependence,
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: which include mistrusted others, perfectionism, avoiding dependence on others, little
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: to know close relationships, not wanting to ask for help,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: anxiety and depression, taking on too many responsibilities, stress and burnout,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: and difficulties in relationships. How are we doing, Anny, what
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: are you saying?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I'm taking it for both of us. I'm just saying
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: it for both of us.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: I've been reading this one, so I'm like, you haven't,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: so I'm checking in with you.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: This is my first hearing about this, and I yeah,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I'm a little like Also, interestingly, we did kind of
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: talk about this. We didn't use this terminology, but in
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: our last Sex and the City with Maya, with Miranda
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: being so determined to not like.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Need any help.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that's an interesting part of it too,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: because I discussed in their part of my my mistrust
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  Speaker 2: in relationships is with guys is that if I tell
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: you I just want to be friends, you're not taking
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: me seriously. And so if I do trust you to
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: do a thing, then it's going to be like, but
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I did this thing for you, right, which I thought
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: was a friend thing, and now I'm finding out you
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: did not think so.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Whoops.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, And by the way, so we're going to talk
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: what happens in relationships. But yes, so if we see
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: it as a hyperindependence as a form of a trauma response,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: here's what they say. Individuals who have experienced trauma may
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: have had people in their life that emotionally or physically
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: abuse them, didn't meet their emotional needs, risk their safety,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: or were unreliable or absent. These things can cause a
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: person to depend on themselves to survive and make them
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: feel that they cannot trust or rely on anyone else.
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  Speaker 3: So I've talked about reactive attachment disorder. This could be
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a key point in people being hyper independent as well.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it goes the other way, it gets hyper code,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: and we're not talking about that yet.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: That might be a follow up Monday. Many I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: Now, I will say that this is not a formal diagnosis,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: and again it's considered more of a trauma or a
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: stress response, so so you know, it can stem from
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: PTSD when a person goes through traumatic experience and then
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: learns or feels that they cannot trust others. Like we
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: said before, and this is the one that's calling me out.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Individuals with hyperindependence may have a fear of abandonment, often
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: because someone in the past was absent or abandoned them,
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: or several people's constantly where I was just handed it
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: around and shipped to a different country.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Anyway.
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  Speaker 3: Because of this, they might avoid building close relationships with
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: others in order to minimize or prevent the chances of
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: that person abandoning them. It could be the very match,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: I'm going to leave first, so you don't leave me
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: right because hella And some of the symptoms that happen
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: with this hyperindependence trauma is feeling shame if they have
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: to ask someone for help. Have you ever had that
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: moment where you're like raising my hand it's for a class,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: for anything. My heart would race and I would have
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: to like think the sentence out four times before I
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: evend even think about asking that question, do you have?
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: This also isolation, depression of feeling unworthy or undeserving of support, anxiety,
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: thoughts of self harm, and substance abuse.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: And again this is of.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Course a little more in depth in that you haven't
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: gotten treatment, you haven't gotten any help, any therapy rather,
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: And I find that interesting because yes, this is something
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: that a lot of women have to the point that
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: they would much rather are I think that's this whole
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: double conversation, like they would much rather be alone because
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: they're tired of being disappointed, because they have been taught
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: that eventually you will be disappointed.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And I do think there is a a
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: lot of conditioning around asking for help with women, of
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  Speaker 2: it being it's interesting because there's almost two sides of
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: the coin, right. There's the feminist part where we're like
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: I don't need anybody, which is not healthy, but we've
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: had to learn to do that. But then there's the
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: other side where it's like you don't want to be
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  Speaker 2: a quote nag, like you don't want to bother people,
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  Speaker 2: so it's almost like you can't win. Yeah, and I
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  Speaker 2: do think a lot of people. A lot of women
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  Speaker 2: for that reason, those reasons have taken it on themselves.
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  Speaker 2: And I know I've done this to be that, like,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not going to bother anybody, but also I don't
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  Speaker 2: need anybody.
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  Speaker 1: It's a strange straddling of.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can do this on my own, right, but
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  Speaker 2: also I don't want to ask for help because you
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: might get mad at.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Me, right, right, right.
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  Speaker 3: And I think it's interesting because they talk about what
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: this looks like in relationships. So again this is from
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: the Brains article, and they say in relationships, the impact
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: on intimate relationships is that hyper independent women don't allow
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: their partner to help because it feels unsafe and equates
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  Speaker 3: to them a lack of control. She's so used to
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: being a strong independent woman and with anything that underminds
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: her belief in herself is often and vehementally rejected. The
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: irony is many hyper independent women are craving for someone,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: anyone to come and help rescue or support them, if
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: you can openly admit that. So I hate the term rescue.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: I hate it with all my might. And again, this
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: is as you were talking about in that Sex in
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: the City episode, She's like, no, no, no, rescue. She
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: literally says, no rescue. Yeah, And I am this similar way.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I will say, since being in this relationship where I've
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: finally gotten comfortable and I know that they are going
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: to be around, and I've been with them for more
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: than five years, it took a long time for me
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: to be like, oh, it's kind of you're gonna give
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: me my coffee, okay, because I often like and I
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: still do like, it's kind of funny. I'm the one
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: who'll make it every morning. I'm the one that still
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: cooks a lot more dinner. I've taken it on myself
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: more so than that has been an expectation again, because
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: this is that need to be independent, but show you
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: that you need me more than I need you.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, I did that too. I don't feel
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: great in my case. I don't feel great about it
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: looking bad because I was definitely being like, I'd be
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: fine without you.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you do without me.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: But I mean that's the point of pride for like
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: for me as well, that I'm like to understand this
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: is a choice and I'll be good without it. But
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: at the same time, I really do appreciate it. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: when I receive it.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what is this? What is this?
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Me like like that's kind of that moment. Uh yeah.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: And that article goes on to say the truth you
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: are not the burden that you think you are. Another truth,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: you need to let your partner support you. And that's
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: the conversation again, support, support and compromise. That's the biggest
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: point that I think we sometimes forget. And this is
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: where the anti feminists jump in and be like, see,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: look look at you. You can't you don't need a man,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: and you don't need these things. And eventually I'm like yeah,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: but we also like them like it's not because we're
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: not saying to be a feminist you have to not
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: have these things, right, we're saying that it's hard to
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: find people who can be these things.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that whole idea is pretty pretty ridiculous because again,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: it should be an equal partnership, equal support. Right, it's
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: not the rescue as you were saying, like the guy
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: risking you are all of these other sexist societal expectations
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that are at play, whether we want them to be
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: or not, because that's this is where we were raised, right,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's ridiculous to me when people are like, ah,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: you like having a partner, Wow.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: A relationship?
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: You want to Like, there's this conversation and I don't
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: know how we've lost it again.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know why.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's because that narrative keeps popping back up of
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: like if you don't, if you cook, if you are
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: staying at home mom, if you choose to do these things,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: you're not a feminist. That's never the conversation again. We
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: want to throw it back to the original, Like, uh,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: when we were talking about women wanting to be able
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: to get jobs and these things, there were many women
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: who were already having jobs and they would love to
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: have the option of being able to be the stay
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: at home mom or any of those things, and they're
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: not being able to have the equitability to do so.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Like this is that conversation. Equality and equitability is the forethought,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: not what you can and cannot do. That's such a
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: trivial ideal. And with that, having a supportive partner that
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: you can lean on is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Not the way they take all of this, like it's
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: not all this one sided conversation.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Is it hard? Yes?
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Is it still hard for those who we would loudly say,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: I am a feminist, but I take care of the
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: household stuff a little too much because I just do
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: again in this that level of like I can do
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: by myself. Need you, but I do need you, but
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: I do like it doesn't necessarily have to be the
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: need you. It's the want you in this conversation again,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: and I like that they say the truth. You're not
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: the burden that you think you are. And more often
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: than not, that is the fear that drives us to
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: go overboard. For me specifically, and I've said that to
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: many people. I've had to explain, if you don't invite
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: me to something, I don't show up because I assume
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you don't want me there, And oftentimes it's more of
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the oh, yeah, I just automatically thought you knew you
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: were invited type of conversation. You're better explicitly invite me,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: because if not, I'm gonna say they don't want me huh,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: or they don't and then that job, since do they
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: don't like me, I'm annoying, Well.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: That's fire again, the spiral that happens.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: And then that same article says learning to ask for
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: help and allowing your partner to do things for you
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: is vital to unwinding the belief you created all those
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: years ago, as you you know, ultimately learning to trust again.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: And yeah, that's that big conversation. Trust that this person
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: will be there for you, Trust that you are worthy
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: of support, and that it does not take anything away
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: from you.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Is that balance If I let this person do this
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: for me, does it make me look weak? Yeah? Or
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: is that allowing me to be loved?
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And I think also to going back to a recent episode,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: a recent happy hour you did, it can manifest in
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: friendships as well, and sometimes in the in my case
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: in the like not asking for help, some of my
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: friends are actually kind of hurt by that, like you know,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: like so it is a balance, Like if I don't
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: truly wanted any help and I'm good, that's one thing.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: But if I'm not asking for it because I don't
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: want to bother you, and then the friend finds out,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: it's like, well I could have helped you, that would
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: have been fine, And then they're they're feeling kind of like, well,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: they feel kind of bad because I don't trust them.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: And have to ask.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So there's like no real easy answer in that but
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: just I it is a balance of asking yourself.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: You know, it would be nice to have help. There
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: are people that would be happy to help me. Yes, Annie,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: It's true. Yes, Samantha.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Also, well, thank you for coming down this road with me.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And eventually I think we are going to come back
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: to the hyper codependence, which is the opposite reaction. But
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I again, like I said, I saw this on TikTok
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: and I was like, well, I got called that.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call everybody else out to as as you should.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: That's how it goes.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Me.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks for doing that.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Well, listeners. If you have any thoughts on this, please
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: let us know. You can email us at Stuff Media,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
• 18:11
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• 18:15
  Speaker 2: at stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: as always too, our super producer, Christina, our executive producer,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: and our contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to you
• 18:27
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