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Episode 484: BOB DOLE 1995 Clintons Comeback (Part 25) Colin Powell for President Not (A) · BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback

0:31
SPEAKER_02: I might uh temporarily, but I doubt even that.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: I think that uh when you get into a a large field of very capable people, uh that you're not just gonna uh immediately become the front runner.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: And as time goes along, you have to take uh positions on issues that are not clear now.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: So he he would certainly be very popular, uh, will always be very popular with American people.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: But when you start running for president, you have to take stands, you have to have a vision, you have to have a plan for the future.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh and uh I think that he'd find it's tougher.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: And you also have to have money to get the message across.
1:02
SPEAKER_17: Could you support Apple Cannon say as a Republican?
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I I think he is a Republican.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: I have a very high regard for him and his wife, Alma.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: I doubt if he's gonna run.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: I think he frankly, I think he's too smart to run.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: For the first time in his life, they're living a good life, they've got a little income.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: And and for the the very things that make him so attractive as a potential candidate, I think are the very things that will keep him from running.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: And I think I could support him if he was a nominee.
1:55
SPEAKER_09: They came from near and far to see the man who would be, could be, some say should be president.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: We go home to England and say we saw the American president two years ago.
2:10
SPEAKER_09: The first family in line drove from the far northern reaches of the state just to get an autograph.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to come down and see Mr.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Powell, General Powell, uh, because he's uh he's a great American, and it's uh unique opportunity to meet somebody.
2:26
SPEAKER_09: Then, with precise military timing and a proper brass band, he arrived.
2:36
SPEAKER_10: Thanks very much.
2:38
SPEAKER_09: Once inside, the signing began.
2:41
SPEAKER_09: He fired off ink at the rate of one round every 3.5 seconds.
2:45
SPEAKER_09: A literary assault virtually unparalleled.
2:49
SPEAKER_09: Meanwhile, the troops kept coming.
2:51
SPEAKER_09: When you're at the end of the line and there are hundreds of people ahead of you, it doesn't matter how fast the author signs his name.
2:56
SPEAKER_09: After a while, you start to wonder if you're ever gonna get inside.
3:00
SPEAKER_09: The last man to be promised an audience with the author was number 1100.
3:06
SPEAKER_09: One month from now, retired General Colin Powell is scheduled to be in Florida.
3:10
SPEAKER_09: On the same day, the Republican Party is holding its next presidential straw poll.
3:15
SPEAKER_09: Will the general run?
3:17
SPEAKER_09: Watch this space.
3:18
SPEAKER_09: Thank you very much.
3:19
SPEAKER_09: Terry Phillips, CBS News, West Bloomfield, Michigan.
3:24
SPEAKER_14: Hi everybody, this is Rena Wallace, and welcome to the Rena Wallace Podcast.
3:27
SPEAKER_14: And you've just heard the next big hurdle that Bob Dill's got to jump over.
3:32
SPEAKER_14: Uh he's just finished up with this disaster that hit him with Bob Hackwood having to uh to be uh removed as the finance chairman and forced out of the Senate.
3:42
SPEAKER_14: And now we've got General Colin Powell out uh talking about and the talk of the country about running for president.
3:50
SPEAKER_14: Uh and you know it it it I wouldn't say it freezes up the campaign, but clearly all the contenders in 1990 states were aware that that this was the giant figure who could come in and really kind of take all the oxygen out of the campaign.
4:06
SPEAKER_14: And so everybody's just waiting to see what Colin Powell is going to do.
4:12
SPEAKER_14: Uh and this book tour was just an enormous success.
4:17
SPEAKER_14: Uh they were lined up out the door and around the buildings and all the places that he did the initial about 14 city tour on on.
4:25
SPEAKER_14: And you'll hear this piece we'll get ready to let you hear uh Sam Donaldson talking to him about it.
4:32
SPEAKER_14: And it's just clear he is the front runner.
4:34
SPEAKER_14: So, what we're gonna do is I'm gonna let you tune into ABC this week with David Brinkley and and hear all about uh Colin Powell, his book tour.
4:43
SPEAKER_14: Then you're gonna have an interview with Bob Dole, and he's gonna talk about the all the different things going on uh in the Republican Party, the Republican agenda, the situation with Bob Packwood, and of course, uh dealing with Colin Powell.
4:56
SPEAKER_14: And and then we'll come back after that with a better sense of what's going on in the election.
5:07
SPEAKER_06: But he suggested that like any good politician, he might be flexible on some things.
5:13
SPEAKER_11: And if I were to enter politics, um I would I would have to, of course, decide whether there were some issues that I could move on in order to uh uh have greater appeal as a politician, uh, which don't go to the core of my belief.
5:27
SPEAKER_06: In the end, this book signing was a triumph that all the other declared presidential candidates would love to claim.
5:34
SPEAKER_06: But then the fates are fickle, and already there was a sign.
5:38
SPEAKER_06: You realize, General, they've already marked down your book?
5:41
SPEAKER_06: Publisher's price,$25.95.
5:44
SPEAKER_06: Sold here for$15.57.
5:47
SPEAKER_11: I'm glad we wish to uh get as many sales as possible.
5:51
SPEAKER_11: Easy come, easy go.
5:54
SPEAKER_06: When it was over, Powell had signed 3,312 books.
5:57
SPEAKER_06: Took him four hours to do it.
5:59
SPEAKER_06: The bookstore said it was an all-time sales record for its entire chain of stores.
6:04
SPEAKER_07: Well, here she comes.
6:05
SPEAKER_07: The night before last, it was that he was very anxious to sign a welfare reform bill.
6:10
SPEAKER_04: On the floor of the Senate, two Democrats, Wellstone of Minnesota and Moynihan of New York, complained that the president refused to fight the Republicans on welfare.
6:19
SPEAKER_06: The administration has abandoned us, those of us who would oppose this legislation.
6:24
SPEAKER_04: Welfare reform is just one of four goals set by Republicans.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Balancing the budget, cutting taxes, replacing our failed welfare system with one that works, protecting, preserving, and strengthening Medicare.
6:37
SPEAKER_03: Those are the Republican goals for the next 60 days.
6:40
SPEAKER_04: Do the guy too.
6:42
SPEAKER_04: And he has to do it with presidential rival Phil Graham sniping at him.
6:46
SPEAKER_18: From Phil Graham's perspective, the best thing that could happen would be if the Senate couldn't make things happen.
6:53
SPEAKER_18: And then Bob Dole's major rationale for a nomination, that he's the guy who can make it work, disappears.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: So for Bob Dole and President Clinton, the problem is much the same.
7:04
SPEAKER_04: Republican conservatives will accuse Dole of giving away too much.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: Democratic liberals will level the same charge at the president.
7:11
SPEAKER_04: And if much of anything is going to be accomplished this fall, the question becomes will the center hold?
7:19
SPEAKER_04: Sam.
7:22
SPEAKER_06: We're going to investigate everything you're doing on Capitol Hill at the moment.
7:25
SPEAKER_06: Uh John Cochran, in his report, made plain that a lot of people, of conservatives, I suppose in your own party, think you're selling out with a compromise on welfare reform.
7:34
SPEAKER_06: What's your response to that?
7:35
SPEAKER_07: Well, we have a very good bill.
7:36
SPEAKER_07: I think most every in fact, I think every Republican will vote for it, conservative, moderate, whatever, uh, because we do end the entitlement.
7:43
SPEAKER_07: We do send it back to the states, back to the governors, back to the state legislatures.
7:47
SPEAKER_07: It's a radical change in welfare.
7:49
SPEAKER_07: And in the process, we'll save about sixty billion dollars over seven years.
7:52
SPEAKER_06: What happens at the conference?
7:54
SPEAKER_06: Do you win in the Senate or do the House provisions, and there are a couple of them that are very contentious, remain in the bill?
8:00
SPEAKER_07: There are a couple of them on the House side, the family cap, which is contentious, uh, but even in the Senate bill, we still allow uh in-kind vouchers.
8:08
SPEAKER_07: But I think the bottom line is are the governors going to decide this or the federal government?
8:12
SPEAKER_07: We think the governors can make decisions, and they're not gonna let teenage moms go without food or go without health care, uh, whether it's family cap or or so-called cash payments teenage moms.
8:23
SPEAKER_07: So we think those two are maybe controversial, but I think it's best to leave those decisions to the state.
8:29
SPEAKER_05: You heard just heard your colleague, Senator Moynihan, saying he'd be in the conference subverting you, trying to sell out to the House to make it worse and make it vetoable.
8:38
SPEAKER_05: Uh how will you won't your position be awkward resisting that, saying we're trying to hold back the contract with America in uh in essence?
8:47
SPEAKER_07: Well, I I have great respect for Senator Moynihan because he probably knows more about the welfare system than any any living person.
8:54
SPEAKER_07: And in fact, I worked with him on the 1988 reform, and it contains the first workfare provision we've had.
9:00
SPEAKER_07: But I'll be on the other side of Senator Moynihan.
9:03
SPEAKER_07: I think we have a good bill.
9:04
SPEAKER_07: There are not that many real differences between the House and the Senate bill.
9:07
SPEAKER_07: They save uh quite a bit more money.
9:10
SPEAKER_07: Uh we're gonna take a look at how they do that.
9:12
SPEAKER_07: I'll be a conferee, and I think we'll have a good bill, hopefully have it in the next ten days.
9:18
SPEAKER_05: Shifting for a moment to taxes, in September 6th in uh Chicago speech, you spoke very warmly about a flat tax and and indeed held up the vision of American speech.
9:36
SPEAKER_07: If you make about sixty thousand dollars, you're gonna find your benefit not at all.
9:39
SPEAKER_07: If you make three or four hundred thousand, you're gonna have a big benefit.
9:42
SPEAKER_07: Now, some would say that's fine.
9:43
SPEAKER_07: You know, if you make more money, you ought to have the the same proportionate tax cut.
9:48
SPEAKER_05: Do you believe that?
9:49
SPEAKER_07: Uh, I I I think generally, but if we had a lot of hearings on flat taxes, and I was chairman of the finance committee, President Reagan decided not to bring up a flat tax.
9:59
SPEAKER_07: Uh, Jack Kemp is chairing our economic growth and tax reform commission, appointed by myself and Newt Gingrich, and whatever he recommends we're going to look at seriously.
10:08
SPEAKER_05: Just as a political communication problem, can you turn to this country and say, by the way, I have this plan that's got all these benefits, it ends the deductibility of mortgage interest payments.
10:18
SPEAKER_07: There's so much static erupt then that the Well, we've already had all the realtors in from across the country.
10:22
SPEAKER_07: They want a flat tax.
10:23
SPEAKER_07: It's like that it's one little bump in it.
10:25
SPEAKER_07: That's called the interest deduction.
10:27
SPEAKER_17: Well, and the charitable institutions will be a good thing.
10:28
SPEAKER_07: That'll be the second little bump.
10:30
SPEAKER_07: And then we tried to do that in eighty-six, and we ended up with three rates, uh which I thought was a big improvement, and we upset a lot of people in the process.
10:38
SPEAKER_07: Will we have a totally flat tax?
10:41
SPEAKER_07: Uh it would be uh hard to do, but I think until Jack Kemp makes recommendations, it's sort of premature for me to say we're by the end of the year.
10:51
SPEAKER_17: On Medicare, Medicare the House Republicans have come up with a plan that they say cuts the growth$270 billion, but also gives senior citizens a choice.
11:01
SPEAKER_17: Now, can they get to that$270 billion without senior citizens signing up en masse for HMOs?
11:09
SPEAKER_07: Well, we we think we can.
11:10
SPEAKER_07: We're in the process down the Senate side, and I'm on the finance committee.
11:13
SPEAKER_07: Uh Senator Roth, though Roth, chairman of the committee now, uh, is gonna w do what we call a walkthrough next week to see where we are on Medicare savings.
11:22
SPEAKER_07: We think we can reduce the earned income tax credit.
11:24
SPEAKER_07: We can find enough savings in Medicare itself, providers and some beneficiaries to reach the two hundred and seventy billion dollars.
11:32
SPEAKER_07: Primarily those upper income beneficiaries.
11:34
SPEAKER_07: Let's just take Part B of Medicare, for example, where we pay sixty-nine percent of everybody's premiums, whether you're a billionaire or a pauper, out of the general revenues.
11:43
SPEAKER_07: It's out of general revenues, it's up to about, I think, forty billion dollars a year now.
11:47
SPEAKER_07: We shouldn't be able to make some adjustments there for people who can afford to pay a little more.
11:51
SPEAKER_07: So you expect your plan to look pretty much like the house plan, uh have some some means testing and have some pretty much uh touch the beneficiars beneficiaries as little as we can and give them an option to stay right where they are.
12:04
SPEAKER_07: I think that's the key.
12:05
SPEAKER_07: If they if they can stay where they are in the same program, uh we're we're gonna encourage that they look elsewhere.
12:11
SPEAKER_07: We think seniors ought to have choices like everybody else has.
12:14
SPEAKER_17: And back to welfare, on on this question that Senator Moynihan has raised of of the problem of the children, what does it do for you as a Republican party where your biggest problem over the years, particularly since Herbert Hoover, has been that you're heartless and cruel if you are seen as the I said seen to be.
12:31
SPEAKER_17: I'm if you are seen to be as the party that is putting children on grates.
12:36
SPEAKER_07: Well, now let me tell you what Governor Tommy Thompson, Wisconsin, told a group of us uh we were all saying we've got to have this string on this program.
12:43
SPEAKER_07: He said, Who do you think I am?
12:45
SPEAKER_07: I get elected by the same people you do.
12:47
SPEAKER_07: You think I'm gonna let somebody go without food or or medical treatment in the state of Wisconsin?
12:51
SPEAKER_07: We're saying give this responsibility to the governors.
12:54
SPEAKER_07: In addition, in our welfare reform bill, we have uh eight billion dollars in child care.
12:59
SPEAKER_17: So we think But that eight billion dollars was the result of a compromise between the Democrats and and with the moderate Republicans there in a in a fall when you said this was not going to be an autumn of compromise.
13:11
SPEAKER_17: Will you get anything done without compromising?
13:13
SPEAKER_07: Well, I think negotiation is the word we use.
13:16
SPEAKER_07: Uh compromise that when you give up principle.
13:18
SPEAKER_07: Here we want to pass a this is a big change.
13:20
SPEAKER_07: We've had a lot of credit from the governors.
13:22
SPEAKER_07: In fact, I must say the governors let us down a bit.
13:25
SPEAKER_07: A after we were saying, you know, this is as far as we're gonna go, we get a letter signed by the Republican uh governor and the Democratic governor, the head of the national governor, so they think, oh, we've got to have more for child care, we've got to have more for the contingency fund, about eight different requests after we've just about reached the point of uh no return.
13:41
SPEAKER_07: Two.
13:42
SPEAKER_07: So they didn't help us a great deal there.
13:43
SPEAKER_07: The president says he'll veto a Medicare, Medicaid bill.
13:46
SPEAKER_07: That's what he says today.
13:47
SPEAKER_07: But what do you think we'll say tomorrow?
13:49
SPEAKER_07: Well, he was going to veto welfare last week, too.
13:51
SPEAKER_07: But my view is I think he's very anxious to sign a welfare provision because eighty-eight percent of the American people in Reach St.
13:57
SPEAKER_07: Paul said we ought to reform welfare.
13:59
SPEAKER_07: Now, sixty-six percent say we ought to reform preserve, strengthen, and protect Medicare are the words I want to use.
14:06
SPEAKER_07: And if we can do that, uh he ought to get on board.
14:08
SPEAKER_07: He you know, he's advocating cuts in Medicare.
14:11
SPEAKER_07: Not nearly as large as the Republicans.
14:13
SPEAKER_07: Well, but he has a meta-scare program, he's trying to scare all the senior citizens, and we don't want to do that.
14:18
SPEAKER_07: We want to protect senior citizens, just like we did in 1983 with Social Security, when I was on a commission with Claude Pepper and others, a bipartisan commission appointed by Ronald Reagan and Tiff O'Neill.
14:29
SPEAKER_07: We rescued Social Security from bankruptcy, and it's in good shape at least till the year 2013.
14:33
SPEAKER_06: According to the Finance Committee, Senator Roth is the chairman now.
14:35
SPEAKER_06: Bob Packwood is history, but a lot of people say Bob Dole will actually run that committee.
14:41
SPEAKER_06: That behind the scenes, you're going to be the one who gets the things done, not Bill Ross.
14:45
SPEAKER_07: Well, Bill Roth will do an outstanding job.
14:48
SPEAKER_07: With your help?
14:48
SPEAKER_07: Well, I hope I can help him.
14:50
SPEAKER_07: We we should help the chairman.
14:51
SPEAKER_07: Uh we're longtime friends, we've been on the committee.
14:53
SPEAKER_07: Remember the Rothkamp, but we always call it Rothkamp tax cut bill.
14:56
SPEAKER_07: It wasn't Camp Roth, it was Roth Kemp on the Senate side.
14:59
SPEAKER_07: That was Bill Roth's idea working with Jack Kemp, the biggest tax cut in history under Ronald Reagan.
15:04
SPEAKER_07: I was proud to be chairman of the committee at the time.
15:07
SPEAKER_07: But Bill Roth is uh will do an outstanding job.
15:09
SPEAKER_06: We'll be back with more from the Senate Majority Leader, a lot about politics in just a moment.
15:15
SPEAKER_06: Politics, huh?
15:15
SPEAKER_06: Colin Powell, like the Oracle of Delphi, is beginning to reveal himself, and the entrance seemed to suggest that he's not going to be a Democrat.
15:23
SPEAKER_06: Wouldn't run as a Democrat.
15:24
SPEAKER_06: That's good news.
15:24
SPEAKER_06: And maybe he doesn't even want to run as an independent.
15:26
SPEAKER_06: If he decides to run, he would come squarely at you as a Republican presidential contender.
15:33
SPEAKER_07: Well, he has every right to do that.
15:34
SPEAKER_07: He's certainly an outstanding American.
15:36
SPEAKER_07: I liked to have been standing with him all this week just to sop up a little of the press he couldn't handle.
15:40
SPEAKER_07: He's at a lot of it.
15:41
SPEAKER_07: But would it be serious, the Republican Party, for instance?
15:44
SPEAKER_07: He's pro-choice.
15:46
SPEAKER_07: Could he be nominated?
15:47
SPEAKER_07: Well, we have pro-choice Republicans.
15:48
SPEAKER_07: We're big diverse parties.
15:49
SPEAKER_07: We have uh pro-life Republicans.
15:52
SPEAKER_07: Uh, I have pro-choice governors, pro-life governors supporting me.
15:56
SPEAKER_07: But uh certainly uh General Powell uh is gonna sell a lot of books.
16:01
SPEAKER_07: And uh I I think I'm gonna buy one.
16:04
SPEAKER_06: Do you want to buy him if you can, to not use the phrase in its literal sense, as your running mate, should you be the nominee?
16:12
SPEAKER_06: Do you want him in the ticket?
16:13
SPEAKER_07: Uh well, I haven't thought a lot about that.
16:15
SPEAKER_07: Oh, yes, you have well I thought I thought about getting the nomination first, and a running mate comes second.
16:21
SPEAKER_07: But uh I I you know I've talked to General Powell months ago, just in a general way.
16:27
SPEAKER_07: We haven't discussed anything specific.
16:29
SPEAKER_07: He said he didn't know much about politics.
16:31
SPEAKER_07: I said, Why are you doing so well on the polls?
16:33
SPEAKER_07: You know, I mean, he knows quite a bit about politics.
16:35
SPEAKER_07: Well, my question was do you would you want him on the ticket?
16:38
SPEAKER_07: Well, Phil Graham says I have a running mate in every state, uh, though I better hadn't experienced.
16:45
SPEAKER_07: Would you want Colin Powell as your running mate if you're the nominee of the Republican Party?
16:49
SPEAKER_07: I'd certainly want him in my administration somewhere.
16:53
SPEAKER_17: That seems to be as close as you're going to get.
16:55
SPEAKER_05: I'm batting zero this weekend.
16:57
SPEAKER_05: If we could swerve back for to Ulfer for just on another network just now, Leon Panetta, the White House Chief of Staff, has said that if the s in the conference the bill moves any way toward the House, it would be a problem and they'd have to think seriously about uh a veto.
17:12
SPEAKER_05: You expect there would be some movement toward the House, would you not?
17:15
SPEAKER_07: Now Leon knows that when you go to conference, you you you negotiate.
17:18
SPEAKER_07: You don't compromise, you negotiate.
17:21
SPEAKER_07: And the House gives on some things and we give on some.
17:24
SPEAKER_07: You can't have your own way in conference.
17:26
SPEAKER_07: Uh so I b I guess that's probably just posturing a bit.
17:29
SPEAKER_07: Uh you know, I have a lot of respect for Leon Panetta, but he knows better than probably anybody else in the White House in a conference, you have to give and take.
17:37
SPEAKER_05: Going back to politics for a minute, uh some people think you're not a happy warrior out there, that uh you're you're trying to placate the conservatives on the one hand and the centrists on the other, and that you're feeling uh the strain of it all.
17:51
SPEAKER_05: And they cycle, for example, with your words, I guess, in Philadelphia, where you said, if you want me to be Ronald Reagan, I'll be Ronald Reagan.
17:57
SPEAKER_07: I didn't say that very well when I look back on it.
17:59
SPEAKER_07: I mean, my point was I'd worked very closely with President Reagan.
18:03
SPEAKER_07: Uh I didn't, you know, I was chairman of the Finance Committee.
18:06
SPEAKER_07: Most of the action came to us, and we worked very closely.
18:08
SPEAKER_07: And I should have said, uh, you know, I've had a lot of experience with Ronald Reagan.
18:11
SPEAKER_07: I I know what Ronald Reagan's policies were all about, uh, but it did come out quite that way.
18:16
SPEAKER_07: I uh I've got my own uh uh philosophy, my own vision for America.
18:21
SPEAKER_07: I'm a consistent been a consistent conservative.
18:24
SPEAKER_07: I'm not uncomfortable.
18:25
SPEAKER_07: We're carrying a pretty heavy load.
18:26
SPEAKER_07: We've had, you know, two weeks ago it was packed wood, last week it's welfare.
18:30
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, the ease is off next week.
18:32
SPEAKER_07: So I'm sort of a weekend warrior, which uh you don't have quite that much much time to relax and reflect on issues.
18:40
SPEAKER_07: But I think we're doing fairly well.
18:41
SPEAKER_05: There's a poll out uh this morning, I guess, in U.S.
18:44
SPEAKER_05: news saying overwhelming support in the country for some kind of English first provision, which he recently endorsed.
18:51
SPEAKER_05: How do you do that?
18:52
SPEAKER_05: What tell us what the legislation does, what it accomplishes, what evil it stops if you codify the principle of English as the language of the United States.
19:00
SPEAKER_07: Well we started voting on this, I think the first time I cast a vote was in 1982 when Sam Hayakau, that was his big issue, sender from California, and we voted on it a number of times.
19:10
SPEAKER_07: Uh you cut you make it the official language.
19:12
SPEAKER_07: Uh and I would also continue bilingual education if the purpose was to teach English, uh, which I think is very important.
19:20
SPEAKER_07: And I would also have all ceremonies, uh naturalization ceremonies conducted in in English, all official ceremonies.
19:26
SPEAKER_05: All ballots in English?
19:27
SPEAKER_07: Uh bilingual ballots are still uh in effect until the year 2007.
19:32
SPEAKER_07: And I think there are some older people, senior citizens, whether they speak German or Spanish, whatever, aren't will not learn English.
19:40
SPEAKER_07: So I think you have to protect their interest.
19:41
SPEAKER_17: Senator, one of the things that people say about that English verse is that it's exclusionary.
19:46
SPEAKER_17: And when you talk about Ronald Reagan and people say, you know, why can't you be more like Ronald Reagan?
19:51
SPEAKER_17: One of the one of the hallmarks of his candidacy was that he was inclusionary, that he at least appeared to be.
19:59
SPEAKER_17: And that the and you've now got Colin Powell saying the Republican Party is too harsh, is the word he used, on the question of race.
20:07
SPEAKER_17: And it seems to me like you are moving into a more, again, exclusionary role there, with changing your position on affirmative action.
20:16
SPEAKER_17: I mean, is there is there a movement here that that is making the party a smaller, more uh exclusionary party?
20:24
SPEAKER_07: Well, I would hope not.
20:25
SPEAKER_07: In fact, my my purpose on English is to make it in to include people.
20:29
SPEAKER_07: My view is particularly younger people who don't learn English are going to be left behind.
20:32
SPEAKER_07: And everybody, I was in Miami yesterday, remember the number of my Cuban friends, and they agree you should learn English if you're gonna go up the ladder in America.
20:39
SPEAKER_07: It includes people, it is inclusionary.
20:42
SPEAKER_17: And what about the race question?
20:43
SPEAKER_17: Race question.
20:44
SPEAKER_07: I think we I mean even General Powell said he said the Army's a good example of affirmative action.
20:49
SPEAKER_07: He hasn't said he had got some problems with affirmative action.
20:52
SPEAKER_17: But he said the Republican Party is too harsh.
20:55
SPEAKER_07: Well, I think it depends on what what product we end up with.
20:57
SPEAKER_07: We have a bill on affirmative action, we want to have complete hearings on it.
21:01
SPEAKER_07: Uh I've got a perfect civil rights record.
21:03
SPEAKER_07: I managed the Martin Luther King holiday bill on the Senate floor.
21:06
SPEAKER_07: So I I'm in fact, when I was chairman of the Republican Party in 72, I organized the first black black Republican council nationwide.
21:14
SPEAKER_07: So I want to include people in our party.
21:16
SPEAKER_07: I want to be the majority party for the right reason.
21:23
SPEAKER_17: That doesn't sound very inclusionary.
21:26
SPEAKER_07: Well, I think I didn't want to buy into any special agenda.
21:29
SPEAKER_07: I think probably uh that was probably but I sub I I I support uh I'm certainly opposed to discrimination.
21:36
SPEAKER_07: I have a non-discrimination policy in my own office.
21:39
SPEAKER_07: I supported the Ryan White Act, I supported the Hate Crimes Act, when the hate crimes against gays.
21:44
SPEAKER_17: So are you gonna send back a contribution from are you gonna check the agenda of every group that sends you a contribution?
21:49
SPEAKER_07: My campaign sent it back, and uh uh and I've talked to friends of mine uh and they they they accept that.
21:56
SPEAKER_07: Uh what I didn't want it to be perception, we were buying into some special rights for any group, whether some lifestyle or whatever it might be with gays or anyone else.
22:05
SPEAKER_17: One of the things that Colin Powell's great uh acclaim seems to be reflecting is people say that what they're looking for here is leadership.
22:13
SPEAKER_17: And that was what you were selling.
22:15
SPEAKER_17: But we're still selling it, but they they seem to see a void there and be heading toward the general.
22:21
SPEAKER_07: Oh well, they're headed in the again, if I I won't say anything bad about.
22:25
SPEAKER_07: General Powell, he's had great coverage, but sooner or later somebody's gonna ask him a hard question.
22:29
SPEAKER_07: Now he says uh that he doesn't really fit uh he's not comfortable in either party.
22:33
SPEAKER_07: Well, we're not gonna change the party to make him comfortable.
22:37
SPEAKER_07: I mean, he's gonna have to take stands on issues like the rest of us.
22:39
SPEAKER_07: And in fact, he said in an interview on the program earlier that he'd have to take a look, see where he could find some flexibility.
22:45
SPEAKER_07: You can't be rigid in this business.
22:47
SPEAKER_07: You've got to be flexible.
22:49
SPEAKER_07: Uh, and my view is that he'd be a great asset to the Republican Party, and I hope he is a Republican, whether he runs or not.
22:56
SPEAKER_07: Thanks very much, Sanders Dole.
22:57
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
22:57
SPEAKER_06: Always a pleasure to see you come back, will you?
22:59
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
23:00
SPEAKER_06: Coming up next, our unrehearsed, unscripted roundtable discussion.
23:03
SPEAKER_06: Conservative news magazine warm, but of course, exactly how you see it.
23:07
SPEAKER_06: The more you look at him, the more you listen to him.
23:09
SPEAKER_06: I think you see a man who is moving toward wanting to run for the presidency.
23:13
SPEAKER_06: And the question then is where, in what party, if any party, how does he do it?
23:18
SPEAKER_06: You say he's gonna be the Republican nominee?
23:20
SPEAKER_19: I think he could be.
23:21
SPEAKER_19: There's a new poll that shows 56% of Republicans want Colin Powell uh to run for president, and the great majority of them want to wanted to run, obviously, as a Republican.
23:29
SPEAKER_06: Well, do they include Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition?
23:32
SPEAKER_06: Do they include his father, Pat Robertson?
23:34
SPEAKER_06: These people care about abortion.
23:36
SPEAKER_06: I buy that senior Mr.
23:37
SPEAKER_06: Reed will be upset that you're not gonna be able to do that.
23:39
SPEAKER_06: Well, not political father.
23:41
SPEAKER_06: But I take seriously, Bill, the fact that people who follow Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson mean it.
23:47
SPEAKER_06: They're not just dilly-dowling about abortion.
23:49
SPEAKER_06: Now, how could they take Colin Powell?
23:51
SPEAKER_19: Well, some of them can't, and he won't be nominated by 100% of the primary electorate.
23:55
SPEAKER_19: The question is, can he get 51%?
23:56
SPEAKER_19: And I think the key to watch over the next month is this.
23:59
SPEAKER_19: If Colin Powell is sort of contemptuously disdainful of the conservative movement, of conservative ideas, of religious conservatives, I think he will cross the line and won't be able to be nominated in the Republican primary.
24:11
SPEAKER_19: If he says, I respectfully disagree with conservative orthodoxy on certain issues, that I can work with Newt Gingrich, I can work with Bob Dahl, uh, I think there are enough conservative Republican primary voters out there who admire Powell and will vote for moral leadership in his in his in his person, especially since they know they have Newt Gingrich running the Congress and steering the country into the election.
24:32
SPEAKER_17: The fact is that the Republicans, people in Democratic primaries and Republican primaries tend to be true believers, and you have to be truly hungry to get past that.
24:42
SPEAKER_17: Republicans have only been out of the White House for four years.
24:45
SPEAKER_17: By the time the election comes, they've just had this enormous win in the House and Senate.
24:49
SPEAKER_17: You don't have these conservatives hungry enough to swallow hard and vote for someone who's pro-choice.
24:55
SPEAKER_19: But half the primaries are open primaries.
24:57
SPEAKER_19: When Eisenhower ran at 52, turnout in Republican primaries tripled compared to the contested race of 48.
25:03
SPEAKER_19: It wasn't reached again until 1976.
25:06
SPEAKER_19: It wouldn't take many independents.
25:07
SPEAKER_19: You know, if Powell's a 25% among Republican voters, 15% of the independents show up in New Hampshire to vote for Colin Powell.
25:13
SPEAKER_19: Suddenly Powell's the front runner.
25:14
SPEAKER_19: So that could happen instead of the case.
25:19
SPEAKER_17: And where is that going to come from?
25:20
SPEAKER_17: Where's the thing that gonna come from?
25:22
SPEAKER_05: I think first of all, he's going to have a very grueling experience on this book tour.
25:26
SPEAKER_05: I've done nine book tours.
25:27
SPEAKER_05: I nothing on this scale.
25:29
SPEAKER_05: But the way he's signed this.
25:31
SPEAKER_05: A book tour's hard work, and he's going to do it for 25 days, and it's as nothing compared to running uh for a presidential nomination.
25:37
SPEAKER_05: He's going to find out a little bit of the texture of life out there.
25:40
SPEAKER_05: And maybe being as sensible as we all think, he is, he'll say, I don't want to do that.
25:44
SPEAKER_05: But what we're seeing right now is we're learning through Powell Mania what Americans really think of affirmative action, because Powermania is gentle, sweet-tempered, good-natured affirmative action.
25:55
SPEAKER_05: That is, the American people are very eager to want to advance a black man in American politics.
26:00
SPEAKER_05: It's a good thing, and it tells you right where Americans stand.
26:03
SPEAKER_05: They want to codify anything, but they want to be decent about it.
26:05
SPEAKER_06: I agree with what I take to be your sentiment, but I don't like the way you put it because I don't think it's a question of all of us, and I'm one of them, who think it would be a good thing for the country if a qualified African American were president.
26:18
SPEAKER_06: I watched Colin Powell for years, and he is qualified, in my view, apart from that.
26:24
SPEAKER_06: I mean, that's just kind of like having a plus.
26:26
SPEAKER_05: Sam, Sam, when was the last time people turned to an out uh a retiring chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and said, gee, he'd make a good president?
26:34
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's true.
26:34
SPEAKER_05: If he were white, we wouldn't be talking about it.
26:36
SPEAKER_17: Well, but it's also true that the.
26:38
SPEAKER_17: No, I disagree, George.
26:39
SPEAKER_06: Excuse me.
26:40
SPEAKER_17: I disagree.
26:42
SPEAKER_17: If he were white, we would still be saying because of this leadership vacuum.
26:46
SPEAKER_17: I mean, that is what we've seen in we've seen it in candidates for president for lots of years now, uh, since Reagan.
26:54
SPEAKER_17: We've seen it uh in in the Congress until Gingrich came in and and led in a way that, you know, you may or may not like, but it's leadership.
27:02
SPEAKER_17: That's fair enough.
27:03
SPEAKER_17: Uh I think that, you know, the people are looking for a leader, and a military leader is especially one with his countenance and bearing, is so clearly a a leader that it makes it much easier for people to go in that direction.
27:16
SPEAKER_05: But it is not the behavior of a leader to say that Democrats don't quite fit.
27:19
SPEAKER_05: And I'm not entirely comfortable with the Republicans, and therefore I'm going to prude.
27:24
SPEAKER_05: Goldwater, William Jennings, Brian, Dwight Eisenhower didn't like big chunks of what they saw in their parties.
27:30
SPEAKER_05: That's what made them run for president.
27:31
SPEAKER_05: Just to change the party.
27:32
SPEAKER_06: That's leadership.
27:33
SPEAKER_06: Well, let's see if Powell does I just say a word on behalf of Bob Dole.
27:37
SPEAKER_06: I'm not on his campaign staff any more than I'm on Colin Powell's.
27:41
SPEAKER_06: I still think Dole is the man to beat for the nomination.
27:43
SPEAKER_06: I just don't think that the true blue conservatives, the pro the people who are against pro-choice, are going to take a Colin Powell.
27:50
SPEAKER_06: Does he have a chance to run as an independent?
27:52
SPEAKER_06: Could he, in fact, hit a third-party movement that wins?
27:56
SPEAKER_19: I think that's awfully tough.
27:58
SPEAKER_19: I mean, it's easy to see a Powell independent candidacy certainly getting Perot's 19%.
28:02
SPEAKER_19: It's easy to see it even getting 25, 29 percent.
28:05
SPEAKER_19: It's hard to see him getting the 40 percent you would need against both city.
28:08
SPEAKER_05: Colin Powell is at about 27 percent as an independent in one poll today.
28:13
SPEAKER_05: At one point, Ross Perot was that high.
28:15
SPEAKER_17: Ross Perot was leading the other two candidates when he dropped out of the race.
28:18
SPEAKER_19: Powell, as a re Powell as a Republican, beats Clinton in current polling.
28:22
SPEAKER_19: Dole looks loses to Clinton.
28:24
SPEAKER_19: But there's a lot that's going to be, I think, affect or dynamics of the Republican primary.
28:28
SPEAKER_17: But there is something that we cannot calculate sitting here in Washington in 1995, and that is that we saw in 92 and 94 a mood in the electorate that was so hostile to what is, that it it changed things dramatically.
28:43
SPEAKER_17: And that could equally be true in 1996, and all of our conventional wisdom about independent candidacies could go out the window, particularly with Colin Powell at the home.
28:52
SPEAKER_06: I've covered eight campaigns, and I've always been wrong in the sense that, like generals, excuse me, Colin Powell, I'm always fighting the last election.
29:00
SPEAKER_06: I'm always saying we're gonna do it this way and this way, and then they confound me and do it another way.
29:11
SPEAKER_10: Uh good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
29:14
SPEAKER_10: It's a pleasure to see you all this morning here at the Super Crown in McLean.
29:18
SPEAKER_10: I don't usually get this reception when I visit the Super Crown during the week, but I'm very, very pleased here to be here to start my uh book tour, and uh I'm very, very pleased to see so many of my neighbors out here.
29:29
SPEAKER_10: Uh, now that there has been a bit of uh reporting about my book, I'm anxious to see what happens when the American people actually read this story.
29:37
SPEAKER_10: And so I'm looking forward to an exciting day here today.
29:40
SPEAKER_10: I'm looking forward to a great four-week tour, and I thank you for coming out this morning to uh say hello to the government.
29:46
SPEAKER_08: I'll take a question is this really the start of a book tour, the start of a presidential campaign?
29:51
SPEAKER_10: Today is the beginning of a book tour, Mr.
29:53
SPEAKER_10: Donaldson, and tomorrow we'll continue to promote the book, but at the same time, uh, we'll be traveling around the country and uh meeting many Americans and answering any questions they may wish to put to me.
30:04
SPEAKER_16: General, what would it take me to run for president?
30:07
SPEAKER_16: And how many times do you think you're gonna get asked that question in the next month?
30:11
SPEAKER_10: I suspect I'll be asked it uh quite a number of times.
30:14
SPEAKER_10: At the end of the day, it's a decision that I will have to make with my family, not on the basis of how many times that I've been asked the question or what other people wish for me to do, but what I think is right for me, right for the country, and right for my family.
30:25
SPEAKER_08: A lot of people wonder whether this is just really all about selling a book and making money, or whether you've got something else in mind.
30:32
SPEAKER_10: Uh, first of all, it does have to do with the promotion of a book.
30:35
SPEAKER_10: I mean, that's what I've been doing for the last two years, getting ready for this, which is an important commitment in my life to complete these memoirs and flip them out.
30:43
SPEAKER_10: But at the same time, I do have a deep concern about the country.
30:46
SPEAKER_10: I and I have some ideas about the country.
30:48
SPEAKER_10: I'll be sharing those ideas, and then I will find uh out after the book tour uh what the best way uh is for me to serve the country in some capacity.
30:57
SPEAKER_10: The alternatives available to me are not just run for office or not run for office.
31:02
SPEAKER_10: I do want to serve the nation in some capacity, and I've got to finish this phase of my life before I can decide what to do with the next phase of my life.
31:09
SPEAKER_14: As you can see, all the pundits, everybody's talking about Colin Powell.
31:13
SPEAKER_14: This book tour is going along huge, and there's this excitement in the air about the possibility of General Powell, like General Eisenhower or General Marshall, who never ran for president, I might add, but was just enormously popular, but or just like General Eisenhower as the guy who can come in and save the day and defeat Bill Clinton.
31:33
SPEAKER_14: And uh and that just kind of you know Bob Dole is stuck alive along with Phil Graham and Lamar Alexander and all the rest of these folks that are running waiting for a decision.
31:45
SPEAKER_14: But you know, in 1992, uh Powell had done an interview with 60 Minutes, and he never seemed to have the fire for running um for president in his belly the way a real candidate needed to have it.
32:01
SPEAKER_14: And that's something that Trent Lott pointed out at the beginning of this as he was asked about uh Powell's um you know desire to run for president, and I thought it was a pretty good call on Trent Lott's part as to what we would see actually happen.
32:15
SPEAKER_15: In New Hampshire primary lore, it is one of the great campaigns that never was.
32:20
SPEAKER_15: In 1995, General Colin Powell published an autobiography, and when his book tour took him to Boston, that was close enough to New Hampshire to bring speculation about a potential White House bid to a fever pitch.
32:32
SPEAKER_03: But he's got leadership, he's got vision, he's what America needs for the 21st century.
32:36
SPEAKER_15: Twenty-six years later, Jim Steiner is still on the Powell bandwagon.
32:40
SPEAKER_15: He says he was saddened to learn of the general's passing Monday morning.
32:44
SPEAKER_03: I think America has lost a visionary leader, uh a man who inspired.
32:49
SPEAKER_15: Steiner and Tim Bush were co-chairs of the Draft Powell movement, trying to draw the general into the 1996 Republican primary.
33:30
SPEAKER_20: And I'm not ready for that yet.
33:32
SPEAKER_15: Powell may not have been ready, but clearly a lot of people were ready for him.
33:36
SPEAKER_15: When he announced his decision not to run in the fall of 95, he noted that, saying it said more about America than it did about himself.
33:44
SPEAKER_10: In one generation, we have moved from denying a black man services at a lunch counter to elevating one to the highest military office in the nation and to being a serious contender for the presidency.
33:57
SPEAKER_10: This is a magnificent country.
33:59
SPEAKER_10: I am proud to be one of its sons.