Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Relationships First: Terri Lawson-Adams' Healthcare Staffing Model | Staffing Series

Transcript

Relationships First: Terri Lawson-Adams' Healthcare Staffing Model | Staffing Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
0:13
they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:17
the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
0:20
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:23
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:25
My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and today's guest is Terry Lawson
0:29
Adams, CEO and Founder of Ellsworth Healthcare Staffing, a
0:34
full service agency committed to providing strategic solutions
0:38
for medical staffing needs. They have created a trusted
0:40
network to deliver the best talent in a wide range of
0:43
healthcare specialties. Founded in Tucker, GA, they work
0:47
around the clock to provide contract hiring, direct hire and
0:51
executive search services, whether that be for medical
0:54
facilities across the state of Georgia or throughout the
0:57
nation. You can find them online at
1:00
ehstaffing.com. We will hear about Terry's path
1:03
from college to politics to being a business owner in a
1:06
different type of business before the idea to get started
1:09
and medical staffing occurred to her.
1:11
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1:42
Now back to our guest today, the CEO and founder of Ellsworth
1:46
Healthcare Staffing, Terry Adams.
1:49
I appreciate you making this time to Share your story today.
1:51
Thank you for having me. OK Terry, so before we get into
1:55
the origin story of EH staffing, tell us in your own words what
2:00
it does. What specifically does Ellsworth
2:03
Healthcare staffing focus on? So Ellsworth Healthcare Staffing
2:09
basically is a healthcare staffing agency that focuses on
2:12
placing nurses and physicians staffing in particular.
2:17
We've currently work with a lot of different agencies or
2:22
organizations, be it schools, clinics, healthcare facilities,
2:27
and we're also right now working into getting into the government
2:30
space. OK.
2:34
And so when when you talk about contracts and direct hire, this
2:42
doesn't include temporary or PRN placements, is that correct?
2:47
That's correct. So PRN placement is basically
2:50
when a facility calls and say hey I need 2 nurses to work 9:00
2:56
to 5:00 tomorrow and then they may not call again for another
2:59
month or two. Contract staffing is when they
3:02
call and say hey I need a nurse to work or two nurses to work
3:07
for a year or five years or even 12 weeks.
3:12
But it's more of contract as opposed as opposed to just one
3:17
offs basically. It seems to me like the model
3:21
that you have settled with, with the the contract hiring versus
3:24
PRN would be a lot more stable and sort of easier to plan for
3:28
versus you've got somebody that says, hey, I just need somebody
3:31
today or tomorrow and you know, now you've got to go and find
3:34
somebody who's available just for a day is my thinking right
3:37
in that. Yes, actually it's right and we
3:41
learned it, I guess the heartbeat trial and error when
3:44
we first started, we work with a consultant who suggested that we
3:49
start that way and it was really, really difficult.
3:52
So what we were doing basically was let's not let me back up
3:57
first. We didn't have a business in
4:00
actual staffing or staffing agency, right.
4:03
I had, I had experience in recruiting, but not really
4:07
running an agency. So hired a consultant to help us
4:12
kind of get started and that consultant suggested that we
4:16
start with PRN staffing, which was very difficult.
4:18
So what we were doing basically we would go out.
4:23
We knew we were wanted to focus on.
4:25
At that time it was Cnas and nurses.
4:28
We knew we wanted to focus on them.
4:30
So we started recruiting the Cnas and nurses.
4:34
We started credentialing them, doing background checks.
4:38
So if you called or any other facility called and say, hey, I
4:41
need someone tonight or need someone tomorrow, we thought
4:46
they'll be ready to go because we have a bunch of players per
4:49
SE, right, that can basically we, they're ready to go when you
4:53
call. Well, it's not that simple
4:56
because if you go ahead and recruit or hire 100 people, you
5:02
credential them, you do their background checks, you do drug
5:04
tests, and they're ready to go, but you wait for the facility to
5:09
call. The facility may or may not
5:11
call. When they do call, you want
5:14
work, so you may go and have another job.
5:17
So it's really, really hard. It's hard to plan, it's hard,
5:21
hard to forecast. So it's just really difficult.
5:24
So we learned the hard way, but that's how we started.
5:26
And it sounds like it would be rather costly.
5:28
I mean, if you're talking about building up a bench of 100
5:30
people, you've had to do background checks that cost
5:33
money. You had to do drug tests that
5:34
cost money, you know, without the assurance that you've got an
5:38
opportunity to place this person.
5:40
We did background checks, we did drug tests.
5:42
We also did so we had to do all the credentialing and we also
5:45
did testing to make sure that they were, they had the skills
5:49
and ability to perform the job. So we spent all of this money
5:54
and of course we didn't get a return to investment because we
5:57
just lost so much money. Most of the people were gone by
6:00
the time we got a job for them. Or if they work one shift or two
6:05
shifts, then they're gone after that.
6:08
So you had a background in the staffing industry, but not
6:12
specifically in healthcare staffing.
6:15
What was behind the decision to focus exclusively on the
6:19
healthcare industry? Well, let me back up.
6:22
So my background initially was in campaign management,
6:27
political consultant. I did a lot of political
6:31
campaigns, some political consultant.
6:34
I work with a few elected officials and I help with
6:37
hiring. So that was my background at
6:40
that time. Now I don't know if you want me
6:43
to go into how I it led to Ellsworth Healthcare staffing,
6:46
but that. I want to hear, I want to hear a
6:48
little bit about the the experience in the political
6:52
arena. Was that something you always
6:54
wanted to get into, or did that kind of happen by mistake?
6:57
Well, actually, when I was an undergrad, I always liked
7:03
political things, right? So I followed politics and I was
7:06
a business major and a lot of people were like, you should go
7:09
to law school or you should go into political science.
7:12
I said no, but I got a job one summer working with the
7:18
legislature in Louisiana and I loved it.
7:23
And then I got a job working with a senator in Louisiana.
7:27
Loved it started and that basically changed everything.
7:31
So I thought, OK, I want to do political politics, working to
7:36
try to make a difference and a change.
7:38
So like I said, working with elected officials, helping with
7:42
campaign management, political consultant was what I like doing
7:46
for a while until I had kids and found out it was really
7:50
difficult because it's almost like a 24/7 job.
7:54
Did you find the political work as fulfilling and rewarding as
7:58
you had hoped it would be? Kind of go into it idealistic,
8:02
like I want to make a difference.
8:03
Did you feel like that was actually happening?
8:06
In the beginning I did. And then after a while, you
8:09
know, I saw some things in politics that were not what I
8:13
expected. I thought everything was rosy, I
8:16
guess, and it was fulfilling. But there were things that I
8:21
just did not like in politics. Yeah, So that combined with now
8:26
you're a mother, and this doesn't mesh well because
8:30
politics requires you to kind of be on call on the clock 24/7.
8:35
And So what was the next idea? What was the next phase of your
8:37
life, Terry? So after I got to a point where
8:41
I felt like I wasn't parenting my kids, the nanny was raising
8:47
the kids, it almost seemed like. And so that was really difficult
8:50
for me. And so I thought and then the
8:54
job itself that I was working in at the time was just so
8:57
demanding and very stressful. So I decided to leave and stay
9:02
at be a stay at home mom, I thought, but it was really
9:07
difficult to be a stay at home mom for me.
9:09
I always felt like I needed to do something.
9:11
So my next phase was I thought, OK, well, what can I do to still
9:16
make a difference? Because it was always, I want to
9:18
do something to leave an impact, make a difference.
9:21
So I thought, what can I do and try to decide, try to figure it
9:26
out and said I needed to do something where I still have
9:30
time for my kids. I can go and volunteer at
9:32
school, go on field trips with them or whatever I needed to do
9:36
and still work. That was difficult.
9:38
I was helping my husband with his business a little and then I
9:42
went into buying some real estate and I thought, well,
9:46
maybe this would be it because I have flexibility.
9:50
But you know, if you buy a house and you're holding it, right,
9:54
you buy it, you put a tenant in, you don't have anything else to
9:58
do unless, you know, they call and say, hey, the toilet's
10:02
broken and then you call a contractor.
10:04
So what? That was difficult.
10:06
I looked and then I purchased a franchise and it was, I did, I
10:13
guess it was a tax franchise. It was something I went into
10:18
really just for, I wanted to, I thought, make a difference, but
10:23
also I thought it would help with doing something right.
10:28
I always had this passion for business as well.
10:31
So I thought, OK, this would be a great business.
10:34
It would be a turnkey operation. I can have the flexibility with
10:37
kids, but it was something I really didn't like.
10:40
And, you know, doing something you really don't like, you're
10:43
not going to be successful in it.
10:45
And so I eventually sold sold the practice.
10:49
So from politics to mom to real estate to tax franchise, couple
10:54
questions along the way. So I've talked with other guests
10:57
about this, this idea of mom guilt, right?
11:01
Like you're a smart, professional woman.
11:05
You've been enjoying a career. You you like that you have a
11:08
child, love the child. Think I'm going to be a stay at
11:11
home mom. This is, you know, my new
11:13
passions, my new thing. And that ends up being a much
11:17
harder transition for a lot of people, a lot of women than I
11:22
think they expect. And I, I saw my wife go through
11:25
this and there was a time where she thought, OK, yes, we have
11:29
the flexibility. I'm going to be a stay at home
11:31
mom. And then it pretty quickly
11:33
became clear that that was not wholly fulfilling for her.
11:37
And she felt terrible about that, like it somehow it made
11:41
her a bad person or a bad mother, You know, that she
11:44
wanted to go back to work. You know, she had friends there.
11:46
She had gone to school for her career.
11:49
She, you know, practiced it a lot.
11:50
Like, you know, she, she was good at it.
11:52
She, she wanted to keep doing that.
11:53
I'm curious if it was a similar kind of experience for you.
11:58
Yes, I had lots of guilt. I guess the first thing was I
12:01
was really passionate about making sure or really concerned.
12:05
I guess most parents are about making sure the kids are happy
12:08
and healthy. I had a premature, my daughter
12:11
was premature. Actually, both of my kids were
12:13
premature. And so that was so important
12:16
that I wanted to make sure they got the best because I wanted to
12:20
be there for them, to give them everything they needed to make
12:22
sure they were healthy and thriving kids.
12:25
And so being at home, I thought could do it.
12:29
But then, like you said, I felt guilty.
12:32
I felt guilty. Well, first I felt guilty when I
12:34
wasn't at home because I felt like I should be with them, the
12:37
nannies, raising them. Then I felt guilty when I was
12:41
home and I wasn't doing, I wasn't working.
12:46
I felt like I always wanted to be this career woman and here I
12:49
am. Stay at home mom.
12:51
So I had this, these conflicting feelings and emotions
12:54
constantly. And again, so I kept thinking,
12:57
well, I can do something that won't really take me away from
13:00
them when they're in school. I can do this when you're, you
13:03
know, and then when they're not in school, I can be with them.
13:07
And it was just really, really difficult.
13:09
And something about saying, Oh, I'm a stay at home mom, just I
13:14
don't know, because I always wanted to be this career woman
13:17
that it was challenging for me. You know, some people are fine
13:23
either way. You know, I have friends who say
13:26
I will never stay at home. I'm a professional and this is
13:30
what I'm going to do. Then I have some friends who say
13:34
I am dedicated to my kids and I'm never going back to work
13:39
until my kids are out of the home, you know, and here I am in
13:43
the middle. So I thought, you know, a lot of
13:44
times what's wrong with me. So it's really difficult.
13:48
Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, parts of
13:50
your identity are fractured, right?
13:52
You had this, you had this identity as a professional
13:55
woman. Now you're also a mother and you
13:58
want to be a professional woman. And how do I sort of straddle
14:00
these two worlds? It could be challenging.
14:03
So you had the idea to go into real estate because that'll give
14:05
you some extra flexibility. But like you pointed out, you
14:08
get a tenant in like, there's not a whole lot more work to do
14:11
for the most part. So you had the idea to buy a tax
14:13
franchise. Did you have a background in
14:15
tax? I used to do a lot of taxes and
14:19
undergrad for people and so yes, somewhat, but the so let me tell
14:25
you. So the real estate, it was
14:28
mostly most, I guess in particular, it was my
14:33
grandfather when I was growing up, always talked about
14:36
financial independence, about investing money, about, you
14:42
know, doing things that's going to help you when you're older
14:45
and to create some generational wealth.
14:48
And I have a brother who did really well or still does in
14:52
real estate investing. So that's how I thought about
14:55
the real estate part of it. You know, I still have
14:58
properties, but it wasn't a full time thing.
15:02
I didn't go all in. I wasn't buying 100 houses at a
15:05
time like some people I know or 50 houses at a time or, you
15:10
know, these huge apartment complexes.
15:14
But it was, that was the reason why I did it.
15:16
But I thought it would have been more fulfilling.
15:18
Like I said, I still have properties.
15:20
It's fulfilling in the sense that I know I, I provide
15:24
affordable housing for people who could not otherwise afford a
15:30
home. And so, and you know, so I, I
15:33
still feel like I'm giving back some kind of way or doing
15:36
something to make a difference, but it's not a full time job.
15:41
So I think it's helpful to kind of hear this path because, you
15:45
know, listeners may not realize that, you know, people who
15:47
eventually find and create a successful business.
15:52
It's usually not the first thing that they've tried.
15:54
You know, there had there's been a path along the way where
15:57
they've picked up skills, they've learned lessons, and
15:59
then they find the thing that just sort of clicks for them,
16:02
which seems like, you know, it's the the healthcare staffing
16:05
industry for you. How did the idea to to start
16:08
this first come up? Then let's talk a little bit
16:10
more about that. So healthcare staffing came up
16:14
after I sold my franchise and I was trying to figure out what am
16:17
I going to do? What's the next move?
16:20
And I, you know, thought about it for a while, could not figure
16:25
out what that would be. And I kept thinking, I love
16:30
helping people find jobs. And so I will connect people
16:33
sometime they would say, hey, can you call, you know, the
16:37
senator to ask him? Can he help me with a job?
16:39
Or, you know, a senator may call me and say, hey, can you help me
16:43
fill this position? So I was always connecting
16:45
people, and it felt good to help people find jobs and to help
16:49
people who are looking for candidates get jobs filled for
16:54
them. And so I kept thinking, well,
16:56
maybe I should do help well, staffing.
16:58
But then I would kind of dismiss the idea because I felt like I
17:02
did not have experience to do a staffing agency.
17:08
And then my mother fell in 2016. She was in a hospital and while
17:15
she was there, we were noticing we were having issues with
17:19
nurses. They, you know, we would call a
17:22
nurse, a nurse wouldn't come. And it was just so many issues
17:25
with the nurses. And I remember speaking with the
17:27
director of nursing to complain, and then she had me talk to
17:33
chief medical officer and we were just talking.
17:35
And they were saying to me basically that they had staffing
17:38
issues. And they were telling me that
17:40
they were changing their MSP. And at the time, of course, I
17:44
had no idea what MSP was. The only thing I knew was I
17:47
needed a nurse for my mom. And so I remember that evening
17:51
thinking maybe I should do something in healthcare
17:55
staffing. Maybe I should help staff
17:56
nurses. Because I saw there was an
17:58
issue, I dismissed it, but then move forward a couple of weeks
18:04
later. My mom's in rehab and the rehab
18:07
facility, there were issues with staffing as well.
18:11
I remember sitting down, speaking to the executive
18:13
director there, complaining, and I even said, well, let me help
18:17
you find an agency. So I'm looking for an agency for
18:20
her. And they didn't have a contract
18:23
with them. And this was after hours and so
18:26
you couldn't get through. And so I started thinking then
18:29
maybe this is what I should do. I recognize that how families
18:35
feel when their loved one is having a medical challenge and
18:41
they don't have the care that they expect or deserve because
18:45
of staffing shortage, then I also recognize that.
18:49
So I will be helping the patient, the family, and then a
18:53
facility that needs the staff that would also help them and
18:57
then of course, just helping people with jobs.
18:59
So that's when I decided I wanted to do healthcare
19:02
staffing. So what is an MSP?
19:15
So, Terry, what is an MSPA? Managed service provider.
19:20
So hospitals and facilities sometime will hire one company
19:27
to manage all of their staffing. They contract labor.
19:31
For instance, say you're a hospital.
19:34
A hospital a can have 100 different vendors that are
19:38
helping staff the hospital, right?
19:42
However, instead of doing that, they've decided to do a managed
19:44
service provider where they take one staffing agency to.
19:51
They'll give them all the jobs and that agency or managed
19:54
service provider will send out the jobs to all of the agencies
19:59
that work under them. And it will.
20:02
The the managed service provider does the stuff for the hospital.
20:06
Gotcha. So you've decided that you're
20:08
going to get into the healthcare staffing space.
20:12
There's a lot that you don't know at this point, right?
20:14
You're, you're just kind of you're putting your foot in the
20:16
water for the first time. You mentioned that you hired a
20:18
consultant. Was that a helpful step in that
20:21
learning process? Well, I think every experience
20:28
is a learning experience and a lesson, right?
20:31
So no matter what, you know, it was an experience.
20:34
It kind of, it helped me a little.
20:39
I if I had to do it all over again, I probably would have
20:43
done a little bit more research and had a different consultant
20:47
maybe. But it taught me what not to do,
20:54
but it did give me a foundation, I will say that.
20:57
And so there's a benefit, like I said, in every experience, no
21:00
matter what it is good or bad. So there was some benefit, but I
21:04
think the biggest benefit I got was I met.
21:08
Well, let me back up. So I was struggling to figure
21:11
out this business, right? And my staff and I trying to
21:15
figure it out. And I thought, you know, I need
21:18
to join a Trade Organization that I can meet other people in
21:23
the industry and learn from them.
21:25
So I joined American Staffing Association.
21:28
However, because I'm trying to run a business, I really didn't
21:33
have time to get involved. So I joined, but I didn't have
21:37
the time and I was getting emails 234 a day from American
21:42
Staffing. And of course, I would just
21:45
ignore them because I had no time.
21:47
And one day I looked and I saw a guy speaking on a, there was a
21:53
e-mail from American Staffing and they had a picture of him
21:56
and had, he's from Atlanta, GA. So I thought he's here in
22:00
Atlanta. So I reached out to him, met
22:03
with him, and I think that was the thing that kind of changed
22:07
everything for me. He basically he was a staff,
22:12
he's staffed physicians. So that was exciting because I
22:16
had no idea when I reached out to him that he's staffed
22:19
physician. So he was in the healthcare
22:20
space. In addition to that, he was very
22:24
active with American Staffing Association and he said, if I
22:27
can give you one piece of advice, join American Staffing
22:30
Association. And I said I'm already a member.
22:32
So he said, well, you need to get involved.
22:34
You need to go to their conferences and that changed
22:36
everything for me because I went to the conference.
22:39
The conference was maybe in a couple of weeks and I thought, I
22:43
don't think we can't afford to. I can't afford to go to this
22:46
conference. He was like, you got to go to
22:48
this conference. So I went and it just changed
22:51
everything to open doors. Now I can call people if I have
22:55
questions or concerns about things.
22:58
So just really help me. Did it help mostly from like an
23:02
education standpoint? Like here are some ways that you
23:06
can think about finding clients and finding contract workers.
23:10
Did it help because you were able to actually find clients
23:14
there? Talk to me about the benefits.
23:17
Well, the benefits were, first of all, I was talking to other
23:20
business owners in the staffing industry, right?
23:23
And so if I need a question about sales or recruiting or
23:28
whatever, right, I can call them and say, Hey, I'm having a
23:32
challenge with this, can you help me?
23:34
It also, I was able to join a different, they have different
23:39
groups, right, industry groups. So I was able to join a
23:42
healthcare sector. And so the healthcare sector was
23:44
people that are all in healthcare.
23:46
So I'm able to pick up the phone calling, but if I have
23:49
questions, not necessarily didn't necessarily help me with
23:53
clients, but helped me to look at ways to find clients, look at
23:58
different ways to do business. If I have questions about legal
24:02
issues around staffing, ASA has a legal team.
24:06
I can send the question to them. They can, you know, help me with
24:11
it or answer it or give me some advice.
24:14
So that's how it helped me. You know, I'm still very
24:18
passionate about American Staffing Association and
24:23
involved. I think it's a wonderful
24:25
organization. And again, it's I would say
24:29
anyone in staffing should be a member of American Staffing
24:33
Association. Well, that is quite an
24:34
endorsement. And I think I think you hit on a
24:38
good point here. You know, myself having been in
24:41
several businesses and talking to peers of mine and other
24:44
guests, you know, one of the things that business owners face
24:49
a lot is isolation. You know, we feel like we're
24:51
sort of alone. We don't, you know, our
24:54
employees turn to us when they have questions and they need
24:57
guidance, but who do we turn to? And when you can find, I call it
25:02
a mastermind, a network, an industry association like that,
25:06
where there's other like minded people in a similar space.
25:09
And what a what a great group of people that you can lean on that
25:12
you can learn from and you know, and support each other.
25:15
So it's I think it's tremendous that you found that.
25:19
It is. And I'll tell you during the
25:20
pandemic, American staffing started what I think is a
25:27
brilliant idea. They started having these peer
25:30
groups. So they will take, if you
25:32
weren't, if you wanted to be involved with people in a peer
25:36
group, so it was other business owners that were perhaps the
25:40
same size as yours throughout the country, they would put you
25:44
in a peer group. So we started, I think our peer
25:48
group started in 2020 and our group is still together today.
25:53
We've had maybe one or two new members and we've lost a couple.
25:59
But for the most part, we're still together.
26:01
And so our peer group meet once a month and we just talk about
26:05
our challenges and help each other.
26:09
So if you have a challenge with sales, they may say this is what
26:11
I do to increase my sales or we're recruiting, whatever it
26:14
is. We talk about different
26:16
softwares, just strategies, you know, in general.
26:21
So everybody who's in this peer group, they're also specifically
26:24
in medical staffing, maybe they're similar size companies.
26:28
They're a similar size. We're in all different areas.
26:31
I think there's one lady in my group that does some medical
26:33
staffing. There is two people in IT.
26:37
There's someone in light industrial.
26:40
So we're in just different areas.
26:43
There's one in administrative No2 in administrative staffing.
26:47
I'm trying to think what the other two are in, but we're all
26:52
in different things. Some of us do just direct hire
26:55
and that's it. And then there are others that
26:57
do contract staffing. Gotcha.
27:00
When you were first starting. I'm sorry I cut you off there,
27:03
Terry. Go ahead.
27:04
I said. Or they do a combination of both
27:06
the like we do. So when you were first starting
27:10
out, you decided to hire a consultant.
27:12
I'm curious, did you consider maybe going the franchise route?
27:15
You had done that before with the the tax business.
27:18
Was that a thought process here? I considered it my concern with
27:23
franchise and not to put any franchises down because there
27:26
are some benefits to a franchise, right?
27:28
So you have basically when you have a franchise, it's a turnkey
27:32
operation, right? However, there's limitations.
27:38
You have territory restrictions. If you want to pivot to
27:42
something else, you got to follow that franchise model.
27:47
Franchise, you know, of course they do marketing for you, but
27:49
you pay for marketing, advertising and the franchise
27:52
franchise fee. And so all of those things,
27:56
royalties and advertising cuts into your bottom line.
28:00
And in the beginning it's helpful, but once you kind of
28:03
figure out what you're doing, then it could, you know,
28:07
depending on the industry, right, it could be something
28:09
where you just kind of feel like you're just kind of giving money
28:12
away. Now, granted you got the brain
28:15
and recognition. The consultant I felt was better
28:19
because once I learn the business, then I can do whatever
28:24
I want and I don't have to. I'm not obligated to pay in a
28:27
fee each month. So there are pros and cons too.
28:31
Where does the name Ellsworth come from?
28:34
Ellsworth is actually my husband's middle name.
28:37
He really doesn't like it, but I always.
28:40
So you decided to put it out there for the world to see and
28:43
put it front and center, huh? My husband and my son, his name,
28:47
middle name, Ellsworth. I think it sounds distinguished
28:50
and I love it. And so I'm like, OK, I'm going
28:52
to use something. So that's where Ellsworth.
28:53
Comes from I like it. How does he feel about the
28:56
company name now? He's OK now.
28:59
My son at first was like, what are you doing?
29:02
What you know? But they're they're fine with it
29:04
now. Terry, what was it like running
29:06
your business through COVID? COVID was very difficult and
29:12
actually I thought COVID was going to shut us down.
29:15
We had been, we were a new business basically still in
29:18
almost in startup mode. COVID hit and we were basically
29:23
at that time we were doing Home Care Services and we were also
29:28
staffing at assisted living facilities in nursing homes.
29:31
And that was our primary business.
29:33
And we had just gotten a contract.
29:36
We were subcontractors on a a county contract and the contract
29:44
started January of 2020. So by March of 2020, the county
29:51
sent something and said and it was for home care.
29:55
They shut down everything. So we were all excited, ramped
30:00
up to do this contract, right? And it's like our entrance into
30:05
the government space and contracting and it was shut
30:09
down. Then we had some, a lot of our
30:13
facilities while we were staffing either people, a lot of
30:17
people had COVID and they were dying from COVID or their loved
30:22
ones were taking them out of the facility because they had so
30:25
much COVID. And so we almost had no business
30:30
and it was very scary. I remember thinking how are we
30:34
going to survive? And then probably in.
30:40
So this is March, by May, mid-May, late May, we started
30:46
getting calls for COVID related services.
30:48
So first it was we need people to do temperature checks.
30:52
Then it was we need people, we want nurses.
30:56
One of our biggest clients at the time was a art supply
31:00
company, which was pretty odd. And they wanted all of these
31:03
nurses around the clock. They business exploded because
31:08
people were at home right shut down.
31:11
So everybody wanted art supplies.
31:13
So they wanted the the business to keep, you know, they wanted
31:17
to keep their business flowing and so they wanted to make sure
31:19
everyone was safe. So they wanted nurses there for
31:21
emergency, they wanted temperature checks, they wanted
31:25
everything. They tried as much as possible
31:27
to keep everything going. So we were staffing around the
31:30
clock for them. Then we started getting, we'd
31:35
already had staffed at some schools, but then some of the
31:39
schools were trying to figure out how they'd go back to
31:42
school. And so they wanted to have
31:45
people to do at that point, that's when I guess they had the
31:49
vaccination came out. And so they wanted people to,
31:55
they wanted to test the COVID testing.
31:57
They wanted to make sure the temperature checks.
32:00
So we had nurses for that. Then we had people do
32:03
vaccinations. We were getting, I mean, not
32:07
hospitals, universities. Most of the major universities
32:11
here called us and we either had people doing the temperature
32:16
checks, COVID tests, the Wellness Center, the quarantine
32:20
units. So COVID we pivoted.
32:24
And that's when I really learned about the contract staffing and
32:28
how much easier it it was and how much more sense it made to
32:32
do contract staffing as opposed to the PRN staffing.
32:37
And from that, we also started getting some direct hire our
32:41
executive search requests as well.
32:44
So that going through that whole process of COVID kind of led you
32:49
into adjusting your business model to get away from PRS,
32:53
yeah, more into contract hire the the direct placement.
32:57
And so I'm curious, why do the hospitals come to you or the
33:03
medical facilities come to you to find these folks to place
33:07
there for periods of time rather than going and hiring people
33:12
directly? Well, there are a few reasons.
33:16
So if your facility and your job basically is to make sure you
33:21
take care of your patients, you may have some HR people, but
33:25
sometime they're hard to fill roles and it takes up so much
33:29
time. They will call an agency.
33:32
A lot of times it's because the agency, we have a pool of people
33:34
that we can get. That's all we do all day, every
33:38
day, right? And so we know different ways of
33:41
trying to find people. And their HR department may do
33:46
some recruiting, but they do a lot of HR things as well.
33:50
And so they'll come for that a lot of times too.
33:54
They'll want to try someone out before they go through hiring
33:58
them, right? So if they do a temp to perm
34:02
that means they can try someone. It's almost like try before you
34:05
buy, right? So they can try someone for 3-4
34:09
months, sometime even longer and see if they like them.
34:13
And if they do, then they convert them to their payroll.
34:17
When they're working for us as contract employees, they're our
34:22
employees. They're our employees.
34:25
We pay taxes, we paid insurance, all of that.
34:28
The facility doesn't have to do any of it.
34:31
Facilities just paying us. So you know, we build
34:35
facilities, they pay us, they don't have to worry about
34:38
unemployment, any of those things that our agency will have
34:42
to deal with because they're our employee.
34:44
Now there are some agencies that don't hire people correctly.
34:47
They make them all 1090 nines and not really employees.
34:50
We don't do that because, well, it's the law that, you know,
34:55
they're supposed to be there are employees.
34:57
So we need to work, they need to work as W to employees.
35:01
We take out the taxes we paid insurance, all of that.
35:04
And so a facility will use an agency for those purposes
35:08
basically. It makes a lot of sense.
35:10
I mean, on the administrative side, it's much easier, right?
35:13
They don't have to do the the payroll taxes and all that kind
35:15
of compliance. They just send you an invoice
35:18
every month. And you know, the other thing
35:21
that you said made me realize it's, you know, sort of like,
35:25
OK, the hospital, they, they want to do some marketing.
35:28
You know, do they have people inside the hospital that know
35:31
something about marketing? Yeah, maybe.
35:33
But chances are pretty good they're going to go out and hire
35:35
a specialist. They're going to go out and hire
35:36
a marketing agency to help them because that's what that company
35:40
does all day, every day. They've got a lot of experience
35:42
to pull from. It's very similar, right?
35:45
Yes, they've done some of their own hiring before, but there are
35:48
a lot of advantages to coming to, you know, Ellsworth staffing
35:51
and being able to tap into the experts who've got a pool of
35:55
talent there, you know, that they can draw from.
35:57
And the other thing that that you mentioned that that, you
36:00
know, really turned a light on for me is this idea of sort of
36:03
try before you buy, right? You get to date somebody before
36:06
you decide if they're a good cultural fit for your, your
36:09
organization. And then it's like, Oh yes, this
36:12
person has been fantastic. We would love to have them join
36:14
us. Or you know what, I think it's a
36:17
good time for us to to transition on to somebody else.
36:21
So yes, that's the advantage for the contract staffing.
36:23
Of course, with executive search at Direct Hire, we're just
36:26
looking, we're doing a search for them and you know, they'll
36:29
hire the person, but we do the search, we do all the
36:33
interviewing, everything, and then we present them to the
36:36
client. If the client's interested, it's
36:39
a, you know, it's yeah or nay, and then they'll decide.
36:43
And that's a time consuming process.
36:45
It is right? To, to, to find those people to
36:48
just whittle it down to a list of folks that you want to
36:50
interview and then to whittle that down even further to, OK,
36:53
here's our recommendations. There's there's a lot of value
36:56
in that and, you know, not having to chew up the time of
36:59
the, you know, the hospital staff to try to do that.
37:02
Yes. And so I'm curious, you know,
37:05
because I talked to a lot of business owners and I continue
37:08
to hear that it's still a pretty tight labor market, hard to find
37:11
good folks, hard to hold on to good folks.
37:14
Terry, in your position, what are some things that you've
37:17
tried that have worked well either from a recruiting
37:21
standpoint or from a retention standpoint?
37:25
I think the things that work well for us is that again we're
37:30
recruiting, we use different avenues.
37:32
We don't just go to one job board to look for people.
37:36
We also have because we have lots of database of clinicians
37:40
that work for us right or providers.
37:42
We a lot of times we go to them and they give us referrals.
37:47
So we have a lot of connections with clinicians and providers
37:52
that can give us provide referrals.
37:54
We use several different avenues and twos to look for people as
37:59
well. So that's helped us.
38:01
I think with retention, just treating people well, that's
38:05
helped. We also stay in contact with
38:08
people even when they're not on assignment or we don't have an
38:11
assignment for them. But I think it's really
38:13
important to try to treat people well, get to know them,
38:17
understand their likes, their dislikes, their wants.
38:21
And so we present opportunities for them that we know would be a
38:25
good fit for them. We're not just saying, hey,
38:27
Anthony, we have a job for you. And, you know, you're a nurse.
38:31
So this is a, you know, your RN, here's a job for you, Anthony,
38:34
this is a job for you because we understand that you only want to
38:38
work weekends. You want to have the week off to
38:42
be with your kids or be available for them.
38:46
So this and it's closer to your home.
38:48
So we have that kind of knowledge and that relationship
38:50
that we built in the rapport with the clinicians and
38:54
providers. So I think that's what also
38:57
makes it a benefit to work with us.
38:59
You get to know the providers on a personal level, right?
39:02
This, these are their likes, their dislikes.
39:04
You know what their preferences are.
39:05
And so you're not coming to them with 12 opportunities that don't
39:09
match what they're looking for. You're being respectful and
39:12
saying, you know, hey, we, we waited to contact you until we
39:15
found something that we think is, is going to be a good fit
39:18
for you that that develops a level of trust and respect
39:21
there. Yes.
39:22
And now there's some time like I have a nurse who said, hey, I
39:26
only want to work this type of assignment at a private school.
39:31
I don't want anything else. I only want to work these hours,
39:34
nothing else. And then she sees a job that we
39:38
have posted for our, let's say, a hospital.
39:43
Then she's like, oh, I'm interested.
39:45
Like, wait a minute, you said you were only interested.
39:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that change.
39:49
So sometimes you know they're preference.
39:51
People, our preferences change things, change circumstances.
39:54
Things that are important to you at one point is no longer
39:57
important, you know, So, yeah. And so I, I fully understand now
40:02
why a hospital or medical facility would come to you to
40:06
ask for help in their staffing. Now let's look at it from the
40:08
other point of view for the, the contract workers or, or let's,
40:13
let's talk specifically about contract workers.
40:16
Why do they enjoy working with you and Ellsworth Healthcare
40:19
Staffing as opposed to going and finding a full time position at
40:24
one of these facilities on their own?
40:27
Now there are some nurses, for instance, or even providers that
40:31
only want to work. We have some that say I'm only
40:35
working during the school year because I want to be home in the
40:38
summer or I want to travel in the summer.
40:41
And so it's easier to come to an agency or like us to find
40:45
something that kind of meet their needs.
40:50
A lot of them also know they may have to go and apply for 100
40:54
jobs before they find that job that they want.
40:57
But if they come to us, we can look for the jobs that they are
41:00
looking for or what they want. And we try to find things that
41:03
meet their needs. And so and then we're like I
41:06
said, we give a personalized touch.
41:08
We have great relationships. And I think all of those things,
41:14
the trust, as well as knowing that we really understand their
41:19
needs and trying to meet their needs, those things I guess make
41:25
it attractive for them to come work with us.
41:28
So one of the things as business owners that we always have to
41:32
keep our eye on is the bottom line, right, Terry?
41:34
So I like to think of these as sort of two main levers that we
41:38
can pull. 1 is like, OK, how do we increase sales?
41:41
And the other one is how do we decrease expenses?
41:44
If you think about your role and your world and those two levers,
41:50
any creative interesting things that you've done to to move
41:53
either one of those levers either increasing sales or
41:56
decreasing expenses? I guess one of the things with
42:03
sales is I don't know if it's as I guess it's somewhat creative.
42:07
We, we basically know that well, one, I think we increase sales
42:13
when we know that we're a niche agency, right.
42:16
And so when we're talking to people, when we tell them our
42:19
differentiators that helps us with sales.
42:21
In addition to not a lot of staffing agencies or Joint
42:25
Commission certified, we have the Joint Commission go to Gold
42:29
Seal, right seal of approval. What?
42:31
What is that? Basically, if you go to any
42:34
hospital or medical facility, you will see Joint Commission
42:40
certification. All of them have to be
42:42
certified. What it basically says is that
42:45
you have to meet certain standards.
42:48
So we have to meet, they have to meet standards for the care as
42:52
as well As for providing, I mean providing the care, right.
42:55
And so the clinicians and providers they hire have to meet
42:59
certain standards. And we as a staffing agency have
43:03
we work by those same standards. And so we join Commission, you
43:08
know, they do reviews we have, they're constantly looking at
43:13
our processes, our systems, the way we staff people, how we
43:18
credential them, just the whole business as a whole.
43:22
And so if a organization call us and they see that we join
43:27
commissions, at least, you know, particular healthcare
43:30
organization, right, they know that we're meeting certain
43:33
standards in in order to be Joint Commission certified.
43:37
So that helps us stand out as well and that helps with sales.
43:42
Now your question was about how do we any creative ways?
43:45
So the creative ways I guess is like I said, one we're starting
43:51
to try to do interesting, you know, to get on more podcasts.
43:55
We would like to get on podcasts that's kind of geared towards
44:00
the healthcare industry. We are, you know, now working on
44:06
trying to do some more webinars, just different creative ways to
44:09
try to get our name out to help increase sales.
44:12
Now how we of course with the bottom line, one of the things
44:16
we've done is when COVID hit, of course we had to in our office
44:21
space, we everyone was working from home.
44:24
So we had to learn how to work from home.
44:26
That was difficult, especially with recruiting.
44:29
We, I used to believe that I needed people to come in face to
44:33
face and meet with them. I felt like you get to know a
44:37
person better if you meet with them face to face.
44:41
I would talk to other agencies that would say, we staff all
44:45
over the world and we don't meet people face to face.
44:48
And I said, well, I'm not comfortable with that.
44:50
And they were like, well, you're not going to scale.
44:53
Or I said, well, I can. And they were like, well, I
44:55
guess you can scale in your area, but if someone somewhere
45:01
around the state, how are you going to meet with them face to
45:03
face unless you have offices everywhere?
45:05
So when COVID hit, we learn to adapt and adjust.
45:10
And now we do all of our interviewing virtually, which
45:14
just saves US money. And so we hit our offices and
45:17
then we started working after I guess after 2021-2022 we started
45:25
doing hybrid and then early this year we have totally everyone's
45:31
working from home right now. So it it's been interesting that
45:35
we've changed. Terry, what's a particular
45:38
challenge, either personal or professional, that you've
45:41
overcome? What was that process like and
45:43
what did you learn coming through it?
45:46
I guess, like I said, the challenge during COVID was my
45:49
biggest challenge, right? Like I said, I thought we were
45:53
going to be out of business and what I learned from that is, you
45:59
know, if you just keep working, have faith also and you know, if
46:06
you have to pivot and be flexible, be prepared to do
46:09
that. And that's what we did and we
46:12
overcame it. I can also say now that staffing
46:18
space right now are numbers. I think around the board is down
46:24
people when all forms of staff and it seems like the numbers
46:27
are down, they're going up a little bit and we just you know,
46:31
I'm hopeful that it well, I'm confident that they will turn
46:34
around. But you know, I know that in
46:36
businesses you're going to sometime in business period,
46:39
you're going to have the upturn and downturns, but you just have
46:42
to be prepared and ride out the wave and know that you'll be
46:48
fine. I do hear that talking with a
46:51
lot of folks in the staffing space is that it's in a bit of a
46:55
law, numbers are down. Any theories on why that is from
47:00
your side? I think from our side in the
47:03
healthcare in particular that during COVID, the nurses were, I
47:10
mean, they were there to, to go to work.
47:15
They wanted they, you know, premium pay and I understand
47:20
because they were being exposed to COVID, right, or they were
47:22
leaving their families. And so if they wanted premium
47:26
pay, agencies had to charge the clients, you know, higher rates.
47:33
So the bill rates were higher. And at the time also the
47:38
schools, the universities, hospitals, all healthcare
47:42
facilities were also getting funding from the government, the
47:45
COVID funding. So when the COVID funding ended
47:49
and it was still paying a premium rates, a lot of them are
47:53
having some financial challenges.
47:55
And so they're cutting back and they're trying to find ways to
47:59
decrease the the money that they're spent, they spend on
48:02
staffing to kind of help with their bottom line.
48:07
So it's impact in turn it's help, it's impacting us because
48:13
the needs not there like it was before.
48:16
So the needs actually gone down because COVID is more in the
48:21
background now. It's not front and center.
48:23
It's not requiring right somebody to take temperatures
48:27
and give vaccines at different workplaces.
48:29
And so the the needs have just shifted there.
48:32
For us in particular, but even if you weren't doing COVID
48:37
vaccinations, temperature checks or like schools increase, you
48:41
know, some schools have one or two nurses, you know, that's
48:45
what all they had. And then during COVID, they
48:48
needed ten nurses because they wanted to make sure, you know,
48:52
and so all of that those needs to decrease.
48:56
But and like I said with the hospital, some of them, they
48:59
were having financial challenges, so they were trying
49:01
to figure out ways not to use agencies.
49:04
And so again, I guess for us, because we do direct hire as
49:09
well, it makes it, it kind of helps us a little bit, right?
49:13
So we can at least staff people directly for the facility as
49:17
opposed to just the contract labor.
49:22
Makes sense, Terry, What's a fun or interesting fact that most
49:28
people might not know about you? I think one of the interesting
49:33
things about me is that I am passionate about health and
49:40
fitness. I I work out often, I walk and
49:48
run a lot. And most people, especially
49:52
people who knew me when I was younger, they'll be shocked to
49:56
hear that. So I think that's interesting.
50:00
I'm trying to think if there's something else interesting.
50:02
I think that's the interesting thing right now.
50:03
OK Terry, any mentors or books that have been helpful to you in
50:10
your path you want to give a call out too?
50:14
I, like I said, I had some mentors.
50:18
The first one was his name is Ken Thornton.
50:21
Ken was the person who told me about American Staffing and
50:27
that's helped me. I've had two other business
50:30
mentors, Terese Baker and the Libra Wesley there with American
50:35
Staffing. They've helped me books.
50:39
So I read a lot of books, Atomic Habits, actually, the morning,
50:48
the Miracle Morning was something that I really, it
50:52
really helped me, Yes. Have you read it?
50:58
I have. It's been a little bit, but it's
50:59
a good reminder for me to go back to it, give our listeners a
51:02
little synopsis of what they can expect from it.
51:06
Well, you know, it's just basically talks about how you
51:08
start your day, kind of set you up right for success with it.
51:13
You know, it talks about basically he looked at all the
51:18
successful people and what do they do?
51:20
What do they have in common? And then he put all of their
51:23
habits into one, the morning miracle.
51:27
So it's, you know, exercise, meditation.
51:36
Let's see. I'm reading, writing, scribing,
51:40
and gratitude. If I'm missing 1, I think I have
51:45
all of them. Do you remember Anthony?
51:47
I don't no. This has been a good refresher
51:50
for me. OK, yeah, I I think that that
51:53
was all of them, but basically it really, really helped me and
51:59
I think I, I highly recommend people consider reading it.
52:04
That's great. Just got one more question for
52:08
you, Terry. But before I ask it, I want to
52:10
do 2 things for those listening today.
52:12
If you like today's content, please hit the like Share
52:15
subscribe button on your favorite podcast app.
52:18
Terry, I also want to let people know the best way to get in
52:20
touch with you. What would that be?
52:23
They can go to our website, whichisehstaffing.com, that's E
52:28
for Ellsworth, H for Healthcare and the word staffing.com or
52:33
they can e-mail us at info@ehstaffing.com and.
52:37
You know what, I have to apologize.
52:39
I lied. I actually have two more
52:40
questions for you. I want to hear about what future
52:42
growth looks like before I ask my last question.
52:45
You guys have some plans in the works.
52:47
Anything that you want to share? We're actually, we are looking
52:51
at doing more. We would like to do some federal
52:54
government contracting. So we are looking at, you know,
52:57
focusing on those federal governmental agencies that in
53:02
particular have a need for, you know, healthcare staffing nurses
53:07
and providers, and we are hoping to grow in the government space.
53:13
That's exciting. We'll have to have you back on
53:15
when you've made some progress in that front to see how it's
53:17
going. OK.
53:19
So last question for you, Terry, I'm curious, what do you think
53:22
the big changes are that are coming to your industry in the
53:24
next couple of years, sort of seeing the arc of COVID things
53:27
are kind of settling down into a new normal.
53:29
What do you think the next couple of years looks like?
53:33
I actually think that, you know, there are some companies that
53:36
are closing down, unfortunately. I think we're going to see more
53:42
as you know, AI and everything, right?
53:45
So I think AI is going to help with some recruiting and
53:49
staffing. I think it's going to help with
53:52
growth as well. It also is going to perhaps
53:57
level the playing field with small companies being able to
54:00
kind of compete with some of the larger companies by the use of
54:04
AI technology. But.
54:06
How do you see? You still need the human touch.
54:10
Yeah. How do you see AI?
54:13
Like, let me ask a couple of questions actually.
54:14
How are you using AI, if at all right now in your business?
54:19
Right now we're using it only with, you know, we use ChatGPT.
54:24
It helps us sometime when we do a job description, we'll help
54:27
it. It'll help us rewrite a job
54:29
description. We use it for more of those
54:34
things. And when we we write things,
54:37
sometimes we send it and say help rewrite this for us or give
54:41
us some suggestions. But I do believe, like I see AI
54:49
helping with, there are some platforms right now with
54:53
recruiting. I haven't bought it yet or been
54:57
sold totally where AI can call thousands of people at one time.
55:03
And do you know the initial interviewing?
55:06
I still believe in the personal human touch and I don't know if
55:13
automated assistant call me and question me and want to
55:17
interview me if I would be comfortable or even interested.
55:20
But there are some people that use it and they've had some
55:23
great success with it. So I see it changing and maybe
55:28
it'll get better and maybe, you know, you reach out to me, you
55:33
know, in a year. And I said, guess what?
55:36
I'm using the AI to do our interviewing.
55:37
I don't know our initial interviewing, but I don't see
55:41
it. But a lot of companies are
55:44
starting to use it. What do you think your next step
55:48
with AI could be for your company?
55:52
I think my next step could be basically where AI, if someone
55:58
comes to our website and you probably see this with the chat
56:00
boxes, right, but it can kind of interact with people when we're
56:07
not in the office and kind of, you know, asks in your resume,
56:14
senior credentials, things like that.
56:16
And then we come back into office, we, you know, AI has
56:19
already collected all of the stuff that we need.
56:22
I can see using that. Yeah, I've been to a number of
56:26
websites that have the chat bots and it's pretty clear to me now
56:30
which ones are using the old style chat bots, which are not
56:33
helpful, never have been. And those are the using the new
56:37
AI powered chat bots, which I would say maybe 70% of the time
56:41
they're actually able to answer my question and do it very well.
56:46
So that would make a a great, great next step.
56:49
Yeah, it makes sense. It's a great next step for you.
56:51
Yeah, because the one, the old ones are frustrating.
56:53
I know most of us, most people, most of your listeners have
56:56
probably dealt with it where like you said, you ask it a
56:59
question and it keeps asking, it doesn't give you the answer.
57:02
And it's like, are you a computer?
57:04
Because you kind of know, but the new AI generated ones are,
57:10
some of them are really powerful.
57:12
Yeah. Well, Terry, I want to be the
57:14
first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story
57:17
with us today. I really appreciate it.
57:20
Well, thank you and thank you for having me.
57:22
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
57:25
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
57:26
today.