Latest / What You Have Seen and Heard / Rev. Andrew Bee Interview

Transcript

Rev. Andrew Bee Interview · What You Have Seen and Heard

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, hello again, everybody.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of What You Have Seen and Heard.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: It's been a little while,
0:05
SPEAKER_01: but it's been a reference to when Jesus tells the disciples of John the Baptist
0:09
SPEAKER_01: to go back and share what they have seen and heard.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's just a series of conversations I'm having with folks from across
0:14
SPEAKER_01: the Upper Midwest Conference,
0:16
SPEAKER_01: the Global Methodist Church, to hear what God is doing in their midst.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: My name is Travis Stevick.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm a pastor in Northwest Iowa.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: And today our special guest is Andrew B.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: He is a pastor and in the candidacy process in Lisbon, Iowa.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: So Andrew, welcome to this conversation.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Travis.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: It's great to be with you today.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: So the first question that I ask everybody is how is it that you came to be
0:40
SPEAKER_01: a Christian in the first place?
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Or if you've been a Christian your whole life,
0:43
SPEAKER_01: how did you come to take your faith really seriously?
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and probably that second question applies a little bit better to me.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: I grew up in a Christian home,
0:53
SPEAKER_00: have wonderful,
0:56
SPEAKER_00: God-fearing,
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Bible-believing parents,
0:59
SPEAKER_00: grew up in a solid church,
1:02
SPEAKER_00: not a Methodist church, but a good Bible-preaching church on the conservative side.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, learned how to...
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Understand the gospel and look good at the same time.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: And then it really, I went to Moody Bible Institute for school.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: And the way that God got me there was just through them coming to play a concert
1:28
SPEAKER_00: at our church on one of their tours.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: And I was a band geek, so that was cool.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And they showed a video of Mission Aviation and that captured my heart.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: And so I went, great.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to move from Cheyenne,
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Wyoming, where I grew up, to Chicago, Illinois, and go to Moody Bible Institute.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: And it was really there,
1:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:50
SPEAKER_00: being immersed in the culture at Moody,
1:54
SPEAKER_00: really being immersed in the study of God's Word.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: And then just convicted through good conversations with other people and
2:05
SPEAKER_00: the Holy Spirit that my faith wasn't really mine.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: It was just the product of my upbringing.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: So my junior year dealt with some sin in my life and pursued some reconciliation
2:19
SPEAKER_00: and really devoted my path to the Lord.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: So how, how, how did that change your life going forward?
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, so I guess, I guess, I guess maybe this, this is a better question.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: So, um, so at some point God called you into ministry because you were in ministry
2:32
SPEAKER_01: before you started being in Lisbon,
2:33
SPEAKER_01: before you had any connection with the global Methodist church.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe I'll ask this question next and then we'll see if
2:38
SPEAKER_01: that answers my question too,
2:39
SPEAKER_01: which is,
2:40
SPEAKER_01: um, so how, how
2:41
SPEAKER_01: did God call you into ministry and what was that like for you?
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, so at Moody, so my sophomore year, um,
2:54
SPEAKER_00: I changed my major.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Thus, I did not become a missionary aviator.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: And so I had to figure out what was I going to do at Moody Bible Institute.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And communications has always been a passion of mine.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: So I grew up working with sound systems and being a lover of audio and production.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I became a communications major at Moody.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Went through that program, ended up working for Moody Broadcasting.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And at several points along the way,
3:31
SPEAKER_00: people in my life just kind of said,
3:34
SPEAKER_00: hey, have you ever thought about being a pastor?
3:36
SPEAKER_00: So I had a preaching teacher because we had to take a preaching course just as
3:41
SPEAKER_00: the course of pretty much every Moody student has to take a preaching course.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: And my preaching instructor said, have you ever thought about being a pastor?
3:50
SPEAKER_00: And then Had the opportunity to work with Don Cole,
3:53
SPEAKER_00: the radio pastor at Moody Radio for many years,
3:57
SPEAKER_00: retired missionary from Angola and was his producer for a number of years.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: And he just on several occasions went, have you ever thought about being a pastor?
4:07
SPEAKER_00: And at that point in my life, I went, I don't want to be a pastor.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's what I'm called to do.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to play that role in ministry.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: I've always been involved in church.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've never been without a church that I've been serving in some capacity.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I've always loved the church,
4:30
SPEAKER_00: but it wasn't until 2007,
4:34
SPEAKER_00: I was an elder in a church in Illinois, in the suburbs of Illinois.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: And our pastor left and we went a year without a pastor as we were beginning
4:48
SPEAKER_00: that search process and doing some,
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Some consulting about just where our church was at,
4:54
SPEAKER_00: what we needed, walking through those processes.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: In April 2007,
4:59
SPEAKER_00: God just laid it on my heart that I needed to do something
5:04
SPEAKER_00: to keep things moving forward.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: There were just a lot of things falling through the cracks.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Volunteer ministry, volunteers, worship coordination.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: I was doing some preaching at that point.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I just had this burden on my heart that, okay, I got to do something.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't sure what that was.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: God didn't say you should be the pastor.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: He just said you should do something.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: So I...
5:28
SPEAKER_00: I went to my wife,
5:30
SPEAKER_00: and she has,
5:33
SPEAKER_00: on a couple of occasions,
5:34
SPEAKER_00: just made it known that, no, I don't really want to be a pastor's wife.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: And so I said, okay,
5:39
SPEAKER_00: God, the first thing you got to do is change my wife's heart if this is from you.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And he did.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: She was like, yeah, this is what you're supposed to do.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And then I went to our elders and just laid out to them a one-year And so,
5:56
SPEAKER_00: in my mind, I felt like
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, then I'm not even really becoming a pastor.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I just get to continue to be an elder and serve the church in
6:10
SPEAKER_00: a little greater capacity than what maybe the other elders are doing right
6:14
SPEAKER_00: at this moment.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: And I was willing to leave my job at that point and give myself to the church for a year.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: And the elders in that meeting said, no, we just don't think that's right.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: And I said, well, we're going on vacation for two weeks.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Would you pray about it?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: And can we have one more conversation about it?
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And See what God says.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And two weeks later, unanimously, they said, yep, this is what God desires.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: So I became the temporary director of transition and served in that role.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: It ended up being about a year and a half.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: And then the senior pastor that we called asked me to stay on as associate pastor.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: And so I served with him for two and a half years.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: He ended up leaving pretty abruptly.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: And then the congregation asked me to step into the senior pastor role.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: And I pastored that church for 10 years.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: So that's how it started,
7:14
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:14
SPEAKER_00: kind of just in a time of need where God really convicted me that I had some gifts
7:22
SPEAKER_00: and abilities that could be used in what I thought was going to be
7:25
SPEAKER_00: a temporary basis.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And now I've served as a pastor ever since.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: So...
7:31
SPEAKER_01: So I think,
7:32
SPEAKER_01: first of all,
7:32
SPEAKER_01: I want to highlight the fact,
7:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
7:33
SPEAKER_01: for anybody who's watched more than one of these, I just,
7:35
SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that every one of these stories that I hear from people is
7:38
SPEAKER_01: that it's different.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, how God calls them into faith is different.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: How God calls people into ministry is different.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: And I just,
7:47
SPEAKER_01: I want to highlight the fact that once again,
7:49
SPEAKER_01: yours was a different experience than others that have been shared.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And in fact,
7:52
SPEAKER_01: it's interesting because I know that I'm the kind of person who,
7:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm the kind of person where if you come up,
7:57
SPEAKER_01: if they tell me no, I tend to take no for an answer.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: And I know I might have given up before,
8:04
SPEAKER_01: but I hear you saying that in some cases at least,
8:07
SPEAKER_01: even when no is the first answer, that doesn't mean it's God's answer.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's,
8:12
SPEAKER_01: I want to highlight that for anybody who's watching this,
8:13
SPEAKER_01: who's discerning a call to ministry,
8:16
SPEAKER_01: to realize that just because you get told no once doesn't mean
8:18
SPEAKER_01: that God's not calling you, even in that very same way.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's fascinating to hear stories of different perspectives.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Personally, I go back to that moment.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: That was a clarifying and confirming moment to me.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: In every call,
8:35
SPEAKER_00: however that becomes confirmed in our tradition now,
8:40
SPEAKER_00: it's through that ordination process.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: But that was a moment where I went, okay,
8:44
SPEAKER_00: God took the hearts of nine guys that had said no, and all of them went, oh, yes.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And so that was just an encouragement to me that I went back to many times to go,
8:58
SPEAKER_00: well, I'm pretty certain of my calling.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it's also fascinating because I know that there's occasionally moments
9:05
SPEAKER_01: where,
9:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:06
SPEAKER_01: when someone first says, I think God might be calling me in this direction.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: And if someone's not already,
9:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:11
SPEAKER_01: you talk about how you had folks who asked if you had ever considered being
9:14
SPEAKER_01: a pastor.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: But if you say that to somebody who wasn't already thinking that about you,
9:18
SPEAKER_01: they might be completely taken by surprise.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: And they might say, no, not because...
9:22
SPEAKER_01: They think the answer is no because they haven't thought about it.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And if they haven't thought about it, well, it must not be true.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: And then when they start to think about it, sometimes the spirit really works on their hearts.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: And I know that I need to be more bold in life and in ministry of speaking some
9:34
SPEAKER_01: of those things out rather than simply,
9:37
SPEAKER_01: I have a tendency to say no on behalf of other people, about to myself.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: So I know that I need more of that in my life in ministry.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: You shared a bit about realizing when you were at Moody, that your faith was kind of inadequate.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: I would love if you're willing to share just a little more about what did
10:00
SPEAKER_01: that do inside of you and how did that change your life?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, I would...
10:11
SPEAKER_00: I like John Wesley's words, heart strangely warmed.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: I would say my heart was strangely put into action where I went,
10:23
SPEAKER_00: if I have faith in Jesus Christ and I'm called to walk this way,
10:29
SPEAKER_00: That I've been aware of my whole life that I can remember.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And that now I've spent two and a half years studying in pretty good detail.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: If this is what the Christian walk is to be,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: then my life is not lining up in that in a couple of areas.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it meant that I went to some people and confessed sin and sought reconciliation.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: For me, it meant that Okay, these things can't have a place in my life anymore.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: So I think it was my heart was strangely moved toward holiness, really,
11:12
SPEAKER_00: of living in line with the Spirit and the way of Christ in a way that was different
11:22
SPEAKER_00: than it had been ever before.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: There's a collection of writings I read every year by Søren Kierkegaard,
11:30
SPEAKER_01: and he's criticizing the Danish church.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things he says is,
11:35
SPEAKER_01: you know,
11:35
SPEAKER_01: anybody who can believe that what the Danish church is putting out by the name
11:40
SPEAKER_01: of Christianity is actually what Christianity is as compared to the New Testament,
11:44
SPEAKER_01: then you must be easily fooled because it doesn't bear any relationship to
11:46
SPEAKER_01: at all.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And I sometimes wonder how often we treat Christianity You know,
11:53
SPEAKER_01: faith as if it's,
11:54
SPEAKER_01: well, whatever, whatever, whatever all those people around me are doing.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's, that's, that's what faith means.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: That's what it means to be a Christian.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: We're all Christians, right?
11:59
SPEAKER_01: You know,
11:59
SPEAKER_01: and our,
12:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know about in your experience, but, um, you know, I live in a small town.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a default assumption that we'll kind of,
12:05
SPEAKER_01: kind of everybody's a Christian,
12:06
SPEAKER_01: whether they go to church or not,
12:07
SPEAKER_01: whether they live like a Christian or not, well, we're kind of all Christians.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: And, um,
12:11
SPEAKER_01: and I think that,
12:11
SPEAKER_01: that confronting the Jesus that we actually encounter in the scriptures is a,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: is a challenge.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think growing up,
12:23
SPEAKER_00: there were a list of
12:27
SPEAKER_00: activities that if you did this, you were a Christian.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: And those were all good things.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Those are things that we would encourage in people even today,
12:38
SPEAKER_00: show up at church and read the Bible and learn how to pray and give some money.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: And
12:45
SPEAKER_00: I think that In the church, we can conflate that with true faith.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: And then that gets reinforced in that cultural perspective of,
12:55
SPEAKER_00: well, isn't everybody a Christian?
12:58
SPEAKER_00: And so I do think...
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Putting that faith in action,
13:03
SPEAKER_00: seeing the works of faith,
13:06
SPEAKER_00: specifically in just, you know, are we dealing with sin in our lives?
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And are we doing that with mercy and understanding and gentleness for ourselves and for others?
13:21
SPEAKER_00: But is there a definite evidence of the pursuit of holiness,
13:26
SPEAKER_00: I think, is Uh, is missing in a lot of places.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to ask a little bit about, um,
13:35
SPEAKER_01: your process of ending up in the global Methodist church,
13:39
SPEAKER_01: because, um, my, my understanding is it kind of, it more or less happened to you.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'd love to hear if you would share a bit about how, how that all came about.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: So the church that I pastored in Illinois, it was a Baptist church, Baptist general conference.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, And I would say that my theology has been drifting Methodist for a while.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: But I came to Lisbon.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So in 1995, again,
14:07
SPEAKER_00: that junior year where God really got a hold of my heart
14:11
SPEAKER_00: and faith became more tangible.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: I was home for Thanksgiving and I'd grown up in Cheyenne, Wyoming.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: But when I moved to Chicago to go to Moody, my parents moved to Lisbon, Iowa.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: And so though I had never lived here,
14:29
SPEAKER_00: my mother grew up in this town and I have family here,
14:32
SPEAKER_00: but I would come home for holidays while at Moody to Lisbon, Iowa.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: So I was home in Lisbon for Thanksgiving.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: I brought a couple of friends, both who have become pastors.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: And we're walking down Main Street,
14:46
SPEAKER_00: and I just said,
14:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
14:50
SPEAKER_00: wouldn't it be fun to sometime come and plant a church in a small town
14:54
SPEAKER_00: and just see what God might do?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
14:58
SPEAKER_00: in my mind at that moment,
15:01
SPEAKER_00: it was the three of us together, and that would have been a blast.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: You know,
15:06
SPEAKER_00: God's moved in in other ways,
15:08
SPEAKER_00: but that idea just kind of sat in the back of my head for years and years.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: And so it was 2021 happened to be in April again,
15:18
SPEAKER_00: which I don't take for granted because it seems like April's my birth month.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: But it's also when God first called me into pastoral ministry,
15:29
SPEAKER_00: I believe,
15:30
SPEAKER_00: and then in April of 2021,
15:33
SPEAKER_00: having a conversation with a member of the church there in Illinois,
15:39
SPEAKER_00: just talking about promptings that he was feeling about what to do,
15:44
SPEAKER_00: some decisions to make in his job.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: And he just asked me, would you ever pastor anywhere else?
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: And I said, well, you know, I never really thought I'd be a pastor.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: I love our church, Meadows Christian Fellowship, really enjoyed serving there.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: I could see myself serving here for a really long time.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: But there is one other place that I've thought about being a pastor.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: And I told him the story of walking down Main Street in Lisbon in 1995.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: And I began to lay out just kind of a vision for that church and What I would hope
16:19
SPEAKER_00: to see and how I hoped God would work and why I thought a church in Lisbon,
16:24
SPEAKER_00: a new church, another church in Lisbon would be important.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And he interrupted me and he just said, you know, I think God's speaking to you right now.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: And so we finished our lunch.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: We were at Culver's having lunch and I went out to the parking lot and sat in
16:40
SPEAKER_00: the car and just talked to God for a little bit, just about.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Was that you saying something about this that's been on the back of my mind?
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And he laid five very specific things on my heart that day.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: He said, okay,
16:55
SPEAKER_00: I want you to go and these five things are going to fall into place for you
16:59
SPEAKER_00: to be able to go.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: And all five of those happened.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, it was April.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: We didn't move until November, so it took a little bit of time.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: But even in the timing, just those those five things kept moving us forward.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: The last one we had moved my parents.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: My dad has Parkinson's, and so we had moved them in with us and
17:28
SPEAKER_00: The last thing that was on our hearts was really he needed to be in a different level of care.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And so we said if we could get them into this particular facility,
17:38
SPEAKER_00: and they had an eight-month waiting list.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: When we had called, and that was probably June that we had called to see about that.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And they called us in October and said, hey, a spot's opened up.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: And if it's yours, it's yours, if you can say yes.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: And so we said, okay, that's the last thing on the list.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: And we said yes, and made the move in November.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: And we started Uncommon Church in December.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: That was an exciting time.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Uncommon Church made a splash in town.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: I was co-vocational at that time.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I worked at the school.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I got to know students and families and we had started a youth group
18:21
SPEAKER_00: and were seeing people connect to the church.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: But I'd also gotten to know other pastors in town and in the area.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: And I had started to pray with a pastor who was at Lisbon Methodist Church at the time.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: So we prayed together once a week most of the time for three years, four years.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And he began to talk about this disaffiliation.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: And just the more he talked about why they would move from United Methodist
18:54
SPEAKER_00: to Global Methodist,
18:55
SPEAKER_00: the more I became interested in what the Global Methodist was doing.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And then the more we started to talk about merging our two churches,
19:05
SPEAKER_00: we were both running between 50 and 70 and our buildings are two blocks away.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: And theologically, we're in about the same place.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And I just said, I think we could do more in town if we were one church rather than two.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And then after they had gone through disaffiliation,
19:26
SPEAKER_00: he ended up taking another charge, which surprised the church and me.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't see that coming,
19:35
SPEAKER_00: but we had had enough conversation that there were there were some in leadership
19:40
SPEAKER_00: that knew that he and I had been talking about is a merger possible.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: And so they approached me and picked up that conversation and We ended up putting
19:50
SPEAKER_00: the two churches together in February of now a year and a half ago.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's been a good connection.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: So that meant, okay,
20:02
SPEAKER_00: now I need to make this interest into the GMC a little bit more official and begin
20:09
SPEAKER_00: that process.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And so I've begun that process and here we are.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate also that one coming into a new tradition
20:18
SPEAKER_01: from another one is inherently complicated and almost certainly very frustrating.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate that doing so,
20:28
SPEAKER_01: while the traditionally you're joining is still in a certain amount of flux,
20:33
SPEAKER_01: probably compounds all of that.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure that I'm going to put my disclaimer here that I put on time.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: This is an unofficial podcast.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: Nobody in the Upper Midwest Conference in any kind of authority has got anything
20:43
SPEAKER_01: to do with this.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: This is just me talking to folks.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just curious about what...
20:51
SPEAKER_01: To give a framework,
20:52
SPEAKER_01: is there anything you would highlight that has been,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: and I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot or digging any holes,
20:59
SPEAKER_01: but one thing that's been very positive,
21:01
SPEAKER_01: if there is any, and one that's been difficult or frustrating.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a positive thing.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Let me make sure I introduce this because I want to make sure
21:12
SPEAKER_01: that everyone understands my intention with all this.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: My intention is not Like I said, this is unofficial, right?
21:17
SPEAKER_01: So I don't have any, I can't do anything with any of these stories.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: But if there's something,
21:21
SPEAKER_01: I also know that The way in this time of transition especially,
21:26
SPEAKER_01: we can behave in a frustrating manner.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: I have been very frustrated in various ways over the last year as well.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I want to make sure that when I'm asked about frustrations,
21:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to jab anybody in the eye.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be a realist and have eyes open so that we can always be thinking
21:41
SPEAKER_01: about how can we be better and more smooth and all the rest.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: So I want to make sure I'm being clear.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm not asking you to pick on anybody.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping that we'll be able to learn something Those outside
21:50
SPEAKER_01: of your context will learn something about how we can all be about the business
21:54
SPEAKER_01: of improving and being clearer.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: I think one of the most compelling things was the Book of Doctrine and Discipline,
22:07
SPEAKER_00: which may sound...
22:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how that sounds to people.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: That's a new...
22:17
SPEAKER_00: That's a new book for me.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And yet before we made anything concrete, I went, okay,
22:24
SPEAKER_00: if this is the book that governs how we think and how we act as a church,
22:32
SPEAKER_00: if this is what defines the theological convictions that hold us together as
22:37
SPEAKER_00: a movement, then I want to read this book.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: And I read the book and I walked away from the book going, Man,
22:44
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't expecting to actually get energized by reading the book of Doctrine
22:49
SPEAKER_00: and Discipline.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: But I was.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think just the Global Methodist Church's commitment to reclaiming some of
23:00
SPEAKER_00: the core essentials of Wesleyanism has been beautiful.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So as the Book of Doctrine and Discipline unpacks
23:13
SPEAKER_00: why the theology is important,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: As we really seek to live out what I think John Wesley's mission was,
23:23
SPEAKER_00: and boldly I'll say what I think Jesus' mission was,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: to make disciples and spread scriptural holiness across the world.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: That's a compelling vision to me.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And then how holiness is articulated throughout that book.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: And then the means,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: the methods of how that happens in classes and bands and the structures
23:43
SPEAKER_00: and those things, those were all super compelling to me.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: And they put the theological convictions and just kind of the history
23:53
SPEAKER_00: of Methodism together in a way for me That I went, wow,
23:59
SPEAKER_00: this really is a mission that I resonate with and methods that I can believe in.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I just go, yeah,
24:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be part of the GMC and I'm excited in the commitment
24:15
SPEAKER_00: of Let's reground ourselves in those biblical convictions articulated through Wesley
24:23
SPEAKER_00: and others that really do form that core theology and mission of holiness and how
24:32
SPEAKER_00: that gets spread across the world.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: So that was really exciting.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure,
24:37
SPEAKER_01: just before we move on from that topic,
24:39
SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important because I remember,
24:41
SPEAKER_01: so I went through seminary in the United Methodist Church,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: and my least favorite assignment of the entire time was having to read through
24:47
SPEAKER_01: the United Methodist Book of Discipline.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: And so it's entirely possible that if you're watching this,
24:51
SPEAKER_01: you might say,
24:51
SPEAKER_01: wait, hang on, he was energized by reading the Book of Doctrines and Discipline?
24:55
SPEAKER_01: I want to make just a quick commercial for anybody who's watching this.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: If you have not read our Book of Doctrines discipline, you should do so.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes, towards the end of it,
25:05
SPEAKER_01: you start getting to kind of the minutiae of just details,
25:06
SPEAKER_01: but read the first like 400,
25:10
SPEAKER_01: through the 400s section at least of the paragraphs,
25:13
SPEAKER_01: because if you're not already very familiar with the foundation of Methodism
25:17
SPEAKER_01: and some of the history of Methodism, it is a genuinely devotionally exciting book.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, read, even though it's a denominational text.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: So I want to,
25:25
SPEAKER_01: I want to affirm that and,
25:26
SPEAKER_01: and say, uh,
25:27
SPEAKER_01: that I think,
25:28
SPEAKER_01: I think Andrew's experience, I think you will have that experience as well.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: If you, if you certainly the beginning sections of it.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: So I want to make sure I do a little commercial of that because that's not,
25:35
SPEAKER_01: not, I think where most people, uh, turn their attention.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think, um, I think one of the frustrating parts and this, this was, um,
25:51
SPEAKER_00: You know,
25:52
SPEAKER_00: I've heard someone say,
25:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember where I got this,
25:55
SPEAKER_00: but the difference between expectation and reality is frustration.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: And so I had some expectations coming in that with a degree from a reputable school
26:10
SPEAKER_00: and with,
26:11
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:12
SPEAKER_00: at that point,
26:14
SPEAKER_00: almost 18 years of pastoral experience and ordination from
26:20
SPEAKER_00: the Baptist General Conference that I would fit in a little different process
26:25
SPEAKER_00: that I wouldn't start at ground zero.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: And so as I began the process of pursuing ordination and had some conversations
26:36
SPEAKER_00: where, One, well, this process isn't really clear.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Now, I will say just even this last year at the annual conference,
26:45
SPEAKER_00: I heard different things and had conversations that I go,
26:49
SPEAKER_00: okay, a lot of that has been addressed.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I realized that I just came in at a turbulent time and that contributes to it.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: So reality, you know, it was unstable reality.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And then I had an expectation.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: I think,
27:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:05
SPEAKER_00: That was compounded in my first candidacy interview at
27:10
SPEAKER_00: the previous year's annual conference when I sat down and one of
27:13
SPEAKER_00: the interviewers said,
27:15
SPEAKER_00: hey, I just got your stuff last night, so I don't really know anything about you.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: And I went, wait a second.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: You're evaluating me as a candidate and you just got my stuff last night.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: So like that moment, I was like, OK, I've been sent back to to ground zero.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't even seem like they care about their process.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: What's going on here?
27:41
SPEAKER_00: I think all of that was
27:46
SPEAKER_00: overwhelmingly because of where we were in the process.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: And I do believe that those things, they're not happening to other people.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that was just in God's sovereign way of just going,
28:01
SPEAKER_00: hey, Andrew, just take a step back or maybe a step down.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: You need to go through this process.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: And I will say the process has been really healthy.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: And so that's been redemptive in that moment of frustration,
28:19
SPEAKER_00: those probably months of frustration where wrestling with How do I get
28:24
SPEAKER_00: into this process?
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Where do I fit in this process?
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Do they take the process seriously?
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Those months of frustration really have
28:34
SPEAKER_00: been satiated in the process of going
28:38
SPEAKER_00: to some classes where I go, yes,
28:40
SPEAKER_00: I've learned this stuff and it's really good to to go through it again and to get
28:47
SPEAKER_00: to some classes where I go, OK,
28:49
SPEAKER_00: this is the stuff I didn't know that I need to know in terms of You know,
28:53
SPEAKER_00: history and polity in terms of some worship elements that,
28:57
SPEAKER_00: you know, are probably different in traditions that I go, this was really healthy.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: And so I just give an encouragement if there's other people that are in the process
29:07
SPEAKER_00: where they've hit some frustrating moments.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of good in the process and there's a lot of purpose in the process.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: So I've just gotten to a place where I go,
29:18
SPEAKER_00: great, we're in the process and I'm glad to be a part of this movement.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: And so the process is super beneficial.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: So I'll go through the process.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate you being able to find redemptiveness in some of that.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: I have spent a fair amount of the last couple of years facing a lot of discrepancy
29:40
SPEAKER_01: between expectations and reality and trying to really advocate for,
29:45
SPEAKER_01: and actually some of this Some of this very kind of interview format came
29:49
SPEAKER_01: from trying to be like, all right, we've got to learn each other.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: We need to get to know each other better than we do.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: We've got to share each other's stories.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: We have to be more and more aware.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And the more transparency and the more conversations we have, the healthier we will be.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: And so I have not taken up a lot of the time in these interviews airing my own issues.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: But let me tell you, I've got them.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: There are one or two people in the conference who are very aware of them.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: But I think it's important that we share some of the stories because I think
30:19
SPEAKER_01: that we sometimes,
30:21
SPEAKER_01: I think it's easy to think,
30:22
SPEAKER_01: you know,
30:22
SPEAKER_01: hey, the church, you know, the church, we're all acting with good intentions.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: So therefore, everything's going to be fine.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: But good intentions are not necessarily the same thing as a coherent and clear process.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: That's one of the things we've been,
30:35
SPEAKER_01: you know, we have a general conference coming up later this month.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: And we've been having these conversations as delegation.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: And there's a tension between,
30:44
SPEAKER_01: on the one hand,
30:45
SPEAKER_01: we want to trust one another, not just on the delegation, but across the world.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time,
30:51
SPEAKER_01: not every idea that's put forward by someone with a good intention is going
30:54
SPEAKER_01: to necessarily be good.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to have a critique to make.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: In some situations without necessarily trying to criticize the person who made the suggestion.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: And that can sometimes be an uncomfortable situation as well.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that God's been able to do something redemptive in the midst of all that.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about, so you said you came back to Lisbon, planted a church.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: It's now joined together with the Globe Methodist Church.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: How has that transition of going from two churches to one church In that town.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: How's that been?
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Really beautiful.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: The history of the two churches,
31:39
SPEAKER_00: because as Uncommon Church,
31:41
SPEAKER_00: we took over a building of a church that had been in this town for decades.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: And the history of First Federated and Lisbon Methodist were
31:53
SPEAKER_00: that they had just swapped people for years.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: So like a new pastor would come to one church or the other
32:00
SPEAKER_00: and people wouldn't necessarily like them or whatever.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And so they'd swap churches and just go down the block.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: And
32:09
SPEAKER_00: so I think that there was some healing in the midst of that.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: We were able to take everybody from Uncommon except for just a couple of couples.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: That didn't make the transition with us, which was really, really good.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: And
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Living Hope was gracious and kind and open to welcome us in and really went out
32:39
SPEAKER_00: of their way to help us to feel connected quickly.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: So I think in terms of just the merger, it went way better than I expected.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: It was a very smooth transition, and we felt like one body really quickly.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: In terms of mission, I think it's done what we were hoping it would do.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: We've become a more effective mission outpost in our community
33:07
SPEAKER_00: than two churches two blocks away.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think we eliminated an option of just,
33:15
SPEAKER_00: hey, I'm going to go down to the church down the street.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: For a couple of months because I don't like what just happened.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: And so when those things hit, that option's not there anymore.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's encouraged and I've seen this in probably three situations
33:33
SPEAKER_00: where people have had to kind of stay and dig in.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's been healthier in the long run than just, hey,
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I can just go down the street for a couple of months and this will blow over
33:45
SPEAKER_00: and that'll be fine.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's all been positive.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: We've seen growth.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: We brought our youth group over with us and they made that transition really well.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: And so we've seen growth there as well.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: So I think we've just become more effective.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: And we're continuing just to look for new and creative ways to do that.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: One personal drawback for me is I went from being co-vocational to being full-time.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Mostly full-time.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: That was the hope of Living Hope is they were hiring a full-time pastor
34:31
SPEAKER_00: to replace their previous pastor.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Though they were gracious enough to say,
34:35
SPEAKER_00: yes, you can take one of your workdays and be in the school.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: So I still get to be in the school one day a week.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: But I miss that.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And there definitely is being present in our communities in pretty radical ways like that.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Does make an impact.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: So we're looking at ways,
34:54
SPEAKER_00: how do we offset some of that loss in terms of I'm not in the school five days
34:59
SPEAKER_00: a week.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: And how do we regain some of that presence in our community?
35:04
SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's so important.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: But overall, it's been a really great transition.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: It's brought a lot of new energy into Living Hope as a congregation.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's given some Solidarity for uncommon people coming into
35:21
SPEAKER_00: an established organization.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think I can't think of anybody that at least coming into Living Hope
35:31
SPEAKER_00: that isn't excited about the Global Methodist Church.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: So I think coming into a movement that really has some clarity
35:39
SPEAKER_00: and purpose has been exciting as well.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: One of the Just pervading issues that I just find endlessly fascinating because I'm
35:48
SPEAKER_01: in a rural context.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I have heard the name Lisbon a million times.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: I used to be really heavily involved in the Cedar Rapids and Chrysalis community.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I always knew some people who were kind of around there at various points in history.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: But I don't really know anything about Lisbon.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: I may have been in there once.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: How big of a town is Lisbon and how close are you from like Cedar Rapids or another large town?
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: So Cedar Rapids is 17 miles to the west and Iowa City is 19 miles to the south.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Lisbon's where four counties come together.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
36:25
SPEAKER_00: we operate under Linn County,
36:28
SPEAKER_00: but Like people in Lisbon live in Jones and Johnson and Lynn.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And so it's an interesting conglomerate.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: It's a rural community, an agricultural community.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: It's farm based population of just over 2000.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: It's seen some.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Pretty considerable growth in the last 10, 15 years.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: So in a large degree, it's a bedroom community for those working in Cedar Rapids or Iowa City.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: We do have some enterprise in Lisbon.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: So the country's largest
37:09
SPEAKER_00: elite stone or countertop manufacturer is here.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Elite Stone Manufacturing.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's just a guy who grew up in Lisbon who loves our town
37:20
SPEAKER_00: that kept his company here when he could have moved it a whole number
37:24
SPEAKER_00: of other places.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: And it's just grown and become an industry leader in that field.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: We have some other industry here.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: I
37:36
SPEAKER_00: think they're still considered the world's largest chiropractic table maker.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Is in Lisbon, Iowa, Lloyd Table.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting in that way where there's just a lot of agriculture and
37:50
SPEAKER_00: then there's these two relatively large or at least significant players
37:56
SPEAKER_00: in manufacturing and business world.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: We're a mile away from Mount Vernon, which is another little town of about 4,500.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: And we share a police department, but that's all we share.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: And there's been a some some days it's a playful tension.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: Other days it's not so playful,
38:19
SPEAKER_00: but there's been a tension between Lisbon and Mount Vernon since their inception.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: So there's there's some rivalry there.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's just very interesting to me how these little two towns,
38:31
SPEAKER_00: you know, really, really vie for their own independence from one another all the time.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: So.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Great little town.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: We have a K through 12 school, which is unusual and I think very special.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's been a cool place to live.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: Do you find, so you are about as close to both Cedar Rapids.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: And Iowa City than I am to Lamar's and Cherokee,
38:59
SPEAKER_01: which are a fraction of the size of those larger cities.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: Do you find having such gigantic communities really not very far away from you?
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Do you find that that shapes life and ministry in any significant way?
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because most churchgoers who live in Lisbon don't go to church in Lisbon.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there's great churches in Cedar Rapids.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: There's great churches in Iowa City.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, Sunday morning gets exported out of our community, which is really sad.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: And when I have conversations with people that that I've gotten to know that I have
39:41
SPEAKER_00: a relationship with, I don't approach strangers this way.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: But when I find that they go to church outside of town, Or,
39:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
39:48
SPEAKER_00: maybe they're not frequent churchgoers,
39:50
SPEAKER_00: but whenever they go, they go outside of town.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: I just encourage people,
39:54
SPEAKER_00: you know,
39:54
SPEAKER_00: if everybody in Lisbon who went to church,
39:57
SPEAKER_00: went to a church in Lisbon, and there's two of them, you have choice.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: But if everybody who went outside of town for church stayed in town for Lisbon,
40:06
SPEAKER_00: we'd have some really great churches.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: And it would make a huge difference in how we could impact our community.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah,
40:14
SPEAKER_00: there's definitely an impact living close enough to a metropolitan area
40:20
SPEAKER_00: that it's not hard for people to say,
40:22
SPEAKER_00: yeah, we're going to drive 25 minutes to go to church.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: I also want to bring up again the fact that you were heavily involved with the school.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: I have...
40:32
SPEAKER_01: I helped out with our conference leadership development team.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And we put out a survey asking just a bunch of stuff.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: But one of the things we asked was,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: what is it that you really need help with that you need to work on or something like
40:42
SPEAKER_01: that?
40:44
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people responded saying,
40:45
SPEAKER_01: we just don't know how to reach new people, especially younger people.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: And I know, so I don't work in the school.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: We are right next to the school in our community.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: But my wife started being the elementary art teacher in the community.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is one of the single most significant things that we did
41:01
SPEAKER_01: for outreach because she has all these little kids who are,
41:04
SPEAKER_01: you know, every time she sees them in school, they say, oh, I saw you at church.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Every time they see you at church, like, oh, I saw you at school.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's just,
41:12
SPEAKER_01: it's not by itself sufficient for outreach,
41:14
SPEAKER_01: but it was,
41:14
SPEAKER_01: it's remarkable to see that kind of get reinforced in ways
41:17
SPEAKER_01: that I don't think I expected.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the congregation is expected.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: And I hear more and more from folks who are saying it is so vitally important
41:25
SPEAKER_01: to be invested in the community that you're in.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that sometimes we hope that if everyone's just going
41:32
SPEAKER_01: to wake up one day,
41:33
SPEAKER_01: realize they should be in church and all show up on our doorstep.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: But realistically, that hasn't happened yet.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: It's probably not going to.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: And especially because Jesus doesn't say stay, you know, he says go.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: So how and in what ways,
41:46
SPEAKER_01: in what ways would you say that your involvement at the school has made a difference
41:50
SPEAKER_01: in the congregation where you serve?
41:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we wouldn't have a youth group if I wouldn't have been in the school.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Because students in particular,
42:02
SPEAKER_00: they're either going to go to a place that You know,
42:06
SPEAKER_00: their friends are going and,
42:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
42:08
SPEAKER_00: everybody's excited about or they're going to go to a place
42:10
SPEAKER_00: where they know somebody.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And and that didn't that didn't happen right away.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Like we didn't.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, It wasn't even on my radar when we started the youth group.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: It was because, so my son, we have five children.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: We homeschooled all of our kids until our youngest.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: And he was going to go into the eighth grade.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: And when we moved to Lisbon and I started working there and got to know the school,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: I just really felt like, okay, we're going to put Ace in school.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: And he really felt like God wanted him in the school.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: And so he went into public school,
42:56
SPEAKER_00: the second half of eighth grade, which is a really weird time to transition in.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: But it worked by God's grace, I think.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: He found friends quick.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: But I was working in the school and I would interact with him.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: I would interact with his friends.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: I was a paraeducator and
43:19
SPEAKER_00: And that was a really easy role to like get get a job in.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: And I needed a job and they were desperate for people.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: And so and it gave me proximity to a lot of different things.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: So one of my students, one of my first students was in preschool.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: So I was around preschoolers and kindergartners and then Several
43:48
SPEAKER_00: of my students were high schoolers,
43:50
SPEAKER_00: so I would bounce into chemistry and I'd bounce into English and I'd bounce
43:54
SPEAKER_00: into these classrooms where I wouldn't just help my kids,
43:58
SPEAKER_00: I'd help all the kids and just started to build relationship with them.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: And so all of a sudden,
44:06
SPEAKER_00: kids started asking my son, hey, would your dad ever start a youth group?
44:12
SPEAKER_00: And when kids are asking the pastor to start a youth group, you go, yes.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: So that's where that came from.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: And I just think
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Living Hope has hosted a baccalaureate service for years now.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: And I said, hey,
44:33
SPEAKER_00: even before I was pastoring here,
44:35
SPEAKER_00: I got involved with the baccalaureate service And just said, hey,
44:40
SPEAKER_00: could we do it at the school where it's a neutral territory where people don't have
44:46
SPEAKER_00: to feel like they're coming into church if that makes them uncomfortable or
44:50
SPEAKER_00: into some other church if that makes them uncomfortable before we do it at
44:53
SPEAKER_00: the school?
44:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think because of my time at the school and my proximity and reputation
45:01
SPEAKER_00: with administration, they said,
45:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes, of
45:04
SPEAKER_00: course.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: And so we hosted it in the school auditorium and it's tripled in size in terms
45:10
SPEAKER_00: of people who come.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: And so I just there's these little little things.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: I also was able to start an FCA club there,
45:21
SPEAKER_00: so I didn't mean to wear the shirt today to do any promotion, but.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: But that's just been exciting.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: We get 30 or 40 kids studying the Bible at 7 a.m. on Wednesday morning in the school library.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: And I go, that's amazing.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: So there's just a lot of things to know the administration,
45:41
SPEAKER_00: to get to know parents, to know kids, to walk around town and, you know,
45:45
SPEAKER_01: hey, Mr. B.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know,
45:49
SPEAKER_00: those are,
45:50
SPEAKER_00: those are priceless commodities that,
45:53
SPEAKER_00: um, that don't come unless you have kind of radical involvement somehow.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: One of the questions that I,
46:00
SPEAKER_01: that I ask everybody, um, is,
46:02
SPEAKER_01: is if there's,
46:03
SPEAKER_01: cause you've been in,
46:04
SPEAKER_01: you've been in various church environments throughout your life.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: And I always want to remind folks that like,
46:08
SPEAKER_01: when I asked this question about, um,
46:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't mean for anybody who's in your current congregation to read anything
46:16
SPEAKER_01: into it,
46:16
SPEAKER_01: because what I'm hoping to get out is,
46:18
SPEAKER_01: are there things that you have seen that Are characteristic of churches
46:23
SPEAKER_01: that are maybe not what they should be.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: And again,
46:25
SPEAKER_01: I want to stress again that,
46:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
46:28
SPEAKER_01: the use of the word sickness is intentional because the purpose,
46:31
SPEAKER_01: if someone's sick, they don't need to be shamed.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: They need to be diagnosed and treated, you know, and helped.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's the ministerial principle.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: The point of view that I'm bringing to this is,
46:44
SPEAKER_01: you know,
46:44
SPEAKER_01: are there sicknesses that we need to build a name because we need to be able to get
46:48
SPEAKER_01: the help and the treatment that we need to improve and flourish?
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you've seen in your life that you would see as
46:54
SPEAKER_01: a fairly common sickness in churches?
46:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think insecurity, both in ourselves and in our identity in Christ.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: And some of that comes from lack of knowledge.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: So some of that is we just don't know who we are or whose we are.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: And then some of that comes from
47:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, the cultural tendency to compare.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: And so I think insecurity breeds inauthentic people.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: I think it breeds gossip.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, because gossip is a, is a really easy way to tear somebody else down.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: And if you're,
47:46
SPEAKER_00: if you're feeling insecure about yourself or in comparison with someone else, then,
47:51
SPEAKER_00: you know,
47:52
SPEAKER_00: the easiest path to, to try to level that feel field is, you know, easy to take.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: And so I think, um,
48:03
SPEAKER_00: Just as humans, I think we're prone to insecurity.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: That can show itself in a lot of ways.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: I think even arrogant people, somewhere they're insecure and that's what feeds their arrogance.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think Christianity and
48:23
SPEAKER_00: The biblical proclamation of the gospel, it is the most powerful antidote to that.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: So that when we actually come to know who we are in Christ,
48:37
SPEAKER_00: other comparisons,
48:39
SPEAKER_00: other insecurities,
48:41
SPEAKER_00: when we're really anchored in our identity in Christ, they tend to go away.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: And so I think in our church, you know, that's definitely present.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: We're not sure who we can trust.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: We're not sure,
48:55
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:55
SPEAKER_00: what we can say and what will people think if,
48:59
SPEAKER_00: and all of that at some level comes back to insecurity in my mind.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: And so if we can build people up in their understanding of who they are in Christ
49:06
SPEAKER_00: and all that that means, I think good things happen.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: Now, I've asked you serious questions about things that seem interesting to me in the moment.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you'd like to make sure that you get said?
49:21
SPEAKER_00: No, these have been great questions.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: This has been a fun conversation.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: So
49:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful
49:25
SPEAKER_00: for it.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Then would you be willing to close us out in prayer, Andrew?
49:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Father God,
49:35
SPEAKER_00: just as we've talked about these things,
49:38
SPEAKER_00: I just thank you that That these things are things we can talk about because of
49:43
SPEAKER_00: who you are and what you've done.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Father, I thank you that you have seen fit in your infinite wisdom to use frail
49:52
SPEAKER_00: and fallible humans,
49:55
SPEAKER_00: that you love us so much that you want to redeem us and you include us
50:00
SPEAKER_00: in Your redemption of the world, your recreation of everything.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: Father, that's an honor and privilege for everyone who comes to faith in Christ.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: And then, Father,
50:12
SPEAKER_00: for those of us who are called into a capacity of shepherding,
50:17
SPEAKER_00: of pastoring, Father, I'm grateful for the calling.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: And Father,
50:23
SPEAKER_00: I pray that you would continue to work in us all that's needed for us
50:26
SPEAKER_00: to be faithful servants.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: Father,
50:29
SPEAKER_00: thank you for the ambitious and compelling mission of Jesus to make disciples in all
50:37
SPEAKER_00: the world,
50:38
SPEAKER_00: to teach them,
50:39
SPEAKER_00: to obey,
50:40
SPEAKER_00: to baptize them,
50:43
SPEAKER_00: and to really confirm them in the name of the Father,
50:46
SPEAKER_00: and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: And then Father, thank you for how that's encapsulated in our Methodist tradition.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you that the GMC is recapturing those core elements of that that are so vital
51:00
SPEAKER_00: to its health and success.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: And Father,
51:04
SPEAKER_00: I do pray that just as we're getting to know each other better in the upper Midwest,
51:10
SPEAKER_00: that you would bless that,
51:11
SPEAKER_00: that the efforts of Travis and others in leadership, Father,
51:16
SPEAKER_00: that Just our own interactions in our districts and across districts
51:21
SPEAKER_00: in our own areas.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: Father, I pray that you would bless the time that we have getting to know each other.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: That it would bear fruit in transformative ways.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: That we would trust each other.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: That we would grow together.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: That we would know what it is to bear one another's burdens.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: And Lord, that we would see just a flourishing of your holiness in our lives.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: And in our districts, in our conference, and in our denomination, Lord, across the world.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: I pray for the general conference, Lord.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: I know that there are many things that need to be discussed.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: I've seen all of the proposals and just ask for wisdom and strength for
52:01
SPEAKER_00: the delegates that are going.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: Lord, I pray that even now you'd be preparing them in ways
52:07
SPEAKER_00: that they might not even know they need.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: And that you,
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Father, would superintend that whole conference and then continue to lead and guide.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: The general conference as they set the standards for us in the GMC.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: So Lord, we give all this to you.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for our time together today.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: I pray your blessing on Travis and just ask that you would continue
52:29
SPEAKER_00: to use this little podcast to encourage others.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: Lord, thank you in Christ's name.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Andrew, for the conversation, for praying us out.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you bet.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: This has been What You Have Seen and Heard.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: My name is Travis Stevick.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: Our guest has been Andrew B.
52:45
SPEAKER_01: I want to remind everybody who's watching this that I base 100% of
52:49
SPEAKER_01: the guests I'm talking to based on recommendations.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: So if you have anybody who's got a good story to tell or is doing exciting ministry
52:56
SPEAKER_01: and God's working in their midst,
52:58
SPEAKER_01: please send me an email at pastortravisatmarcusgrace.com.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: And I would love to hear from you and get that ball rolling.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much, guys, and I'll see you next time.