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Cardinals Trade Deadline eve update · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, July thirtieth, So happy Trade Deadline Eve. Welcome
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: back to Cardinal Territory, Katie and Bernie here to cover
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the final twenty four ish hours before MLB's trade deadline
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: officially hits that scheduled four Thursday. That's tomorrow, July thirty, first,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: at five pm Central Time. A couple of trades taking
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: place today. I saw Austin Slater went to the New
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: York Yankees. All was quiet here on the Cardinals front,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: and I expect it to remain that way up until tomorrow.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Then things will pick up. Ryan Helsley, film Aton and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Stephen Matz are still the most likely players to go
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: at this deadline. But John Mozelac has always kind of
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: been He's been okay with waiting until the deadline final
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: buzzer beater to make a movie. Think about his significant
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: trades as of late. He swapped Tommy Edmund for Eric
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Betty and Tommy fam the afternoon of the deadline. Last
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: year three, he sent Jack Flaherty an hour before the deadline,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: and then he traded Harrison Bader for Jordan Montgomery minutes
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: before the twenty twenty two deadline. Same with his deal
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: for John Lester. This all happened maybe three or four
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: minutes before the deadline officially hit its cut off. So
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: sit in wait patiently as much as you can, Cardinals fans.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Things should start to pick up in the next twenty
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: four hours. They kind of have to, otherwise we're having
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a much bigger problem. Bernie, how do you hear the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: trade deadline?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm just like everyone else. I'm just waiting to
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: see if you know, John Mozleak will make the boast
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: of it, or whether you know I'm not. I'm trying.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be a jackass, Okay, but you
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: know I have to admit, you know, part of me
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: is like wondering, you know, is it even possible for
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: him to screw this up? And let me just say,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I guess everything is possible. I mean, I think skepticism
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: is understandable. So I'm just I'm not there's no need
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to pass any judgment yet. But they do have assets,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: they do have expiring contracts, they have three relievers, plus
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Jojo Romero has got a year left in a market
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: where I read the Athletic all the time and all
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: the national writers, yourself, you know, keep talking understandably so
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: about how there is this dire need for relief help
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and the Cardinals have like basically four guys to pedal.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And you know, I do think sometimes, I mean, we
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: expect that they will get like a lot for these guys.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm never sure whether that's a safe prediction because
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I've seen it where yeah, teams will go nuts and
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: give you a lot for your relievers, but I've also
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: seen deadlines where it doesn't happen. So I don't know
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: what to expect. But when you have four relievers, three
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: on expiring contracts, in a market where contenders are scrambling
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: for relief help, you got to make the most of it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: You just have to. There's no justification for not doing that.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, you have to capitalize on these returns. And that's
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: why I'm okay with John mozaylock taking his time here.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: There's no need to rush into anything. The Cardinals have
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: all of the leverage here, so you might as well
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: use it to your advantage. And I will say this
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: about mo he might not hit on every single return,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: but he's one of the best negotiators in the league
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: because he gets what he wants. He wanted Tommy fam
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and that Eric Fetty deal that had come to Fruition
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: a night before. But he wasn't settled with just Betty.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: He wanted Tommy Fam. So who gets out and he
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: gets it, he is okay. I've actually used some of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: his negotiation tactics to when I was negotiating my own contract.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: So they do work. He knows how to negotiate. We
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: can have a different conversation about the returns and if
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: they've panned out, because most of them have not. And
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I won't fight you there. But this is a time
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: where the Cardinals have again all the leverage, at a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: time where relief market, the relief pitching market is at
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: its highest. There are not a lot of bona fide
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: closers out there. There is David Bednan from the Pirates,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: maybe Pete Fairbanks from the Rays if they kind of
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: if they sell, but they're walking this tightrope and they
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: really don't want to let him go. In Manuel Class
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: is on the I can't remember the official term. It's
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: like the not the pay to leave investigation. He's not
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: able to play until August thirty first. Maybe Joanne Duran
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: breaks into that list as well, But there are just
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: not a lot of out there for a while.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm just I have such terrible manners.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Just cut my microphone off when I'm doing that. I
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: apologize to you. Yeah, but I'm with you because listen,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I've been really, really, really tough on MO and I
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: think it's most of that is warranted. Maybe sometimes I
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: go a little overboard, but whatever. But the one thing
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I do is I try to be fair and I
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: will defend him. And there's a lot of people, you know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you know, fans or whomever, that even when he's made
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: some really good trades at the deadline, they'll try to
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: tell you they weren't really good trades. The hell they weren't.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, in twenty twenty two, in addition to Montgomery,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: he got Jose Cantana, and both of those guys were terrific.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: You know, the Cardinals after they got those two guys,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: and their rotation was bleeding at that down the stretch,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: those two starters combined, the Cardinals were seventeen and six
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: in their starts. I mean, you cannot come up any
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: better bigger than that at the trade deadline when you
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: need starting pitching, they were excellent, and Cantana basically had
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the Phillies beat in Game one of the playoffs that year.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So and then in twenty one you mentioned Lester, and
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: then there's also Jay Happy got them on the same day.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: He gave up nothing. Well, Lane Thomas was okay. But
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the point is the Cardinals people, you have to remember,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: they were desperate. They were utterly desperate for starting pitching,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: and Hap and Lester did really really well for what
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: they needed. No one's saying, you know, they're Thomas Ever
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: and Don Drysdale or whatever, but they did really really
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: well for a team that was desperate for starting pitching.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Most reasons for making the Fetti trade were logical and
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: fit sound, and I approved of the trade. I thought
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: it was good. Keith Law The Athletic and many others wrote, hey,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Mo got the top available starter on the market, and
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: he gave up an infielder that was hurt and they
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: weren't going to re sign when his contract expired, So
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: this was a heck of a trade. It didn't, bottom line,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: didn't work out. But that doesn't like.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: It was a good trade.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's In other words, both things can be true,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: meaning the thinking behind the trade was absolutely right. But
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: then you have the final result. Nope, it didn't work out.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Both things can be true, And you know, I think
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, you know where he traded offloaded Flaarty
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and Montgomery and some others. I think I don't think
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: there's a full verdict in yet. I think a lot
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: of that will depend on what Tako Robi becomes and
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: we're not going to find that out for quite a
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: while now. And same with s JC. And you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: they also got Matt Spahnson in that, and there's a
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: couple other guys that could surface. I'm not gonna I'm
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: not going to give up on those guys yet. But Mo,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget Katie and I'll shut up because this
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: is like, well, let's let me give you a history
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: lesson here.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: No.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, the Cardinals really really needed relief help
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and Cardinals fans were clamoring for Jonathan Broxton who was
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: having a good year, and all these leavers were coming
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: off the shelves and Mo got a guy from the
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Marlins name Edward Mohica and at the time I was
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: osen the show one on one ESPN, And when he
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: traded for Edwin Mehica, when all these big name relievers
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: were going off the shelves. People were losing their minds.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: People were losing their minds. Right oh mo oh, thanks boy,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: big help there. I don't even know who this guy is.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Mohika saved their season. They wouldn't say their season. They
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: were really good. We're talking about a National League pennant
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: winner and he was outstanding. That trade might have been
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve and twenty thirteen. Mohika was an all star.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: He was outstanding. He said he had thirty seven saves
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: one year. So Mo has made some goofs that he
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't get enough credit for. But but again, because I
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: am guilty of this, I am so we'll see. I've
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: lost some trust in him, to say the least.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And that's totally fair, and I think a lot of
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: fans share that sentiment. We'll get into that, we'll get
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: into the market for what the Cardinals believers look like.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: We'll get into how the dynamic is working with Mohenheim
• 8:13
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• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I want to know what my biological age is. It's
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: probably like fifty. After this deadline?
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  Speaker 2: only thing that can keep me going anyway to.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Get through the next twenty four hours on all the
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: help I can get just caffeine alive. Oh, that's the same,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that's the same banner. We just did that segment. Next,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: what's the market for the Cardinals relievers? I had a
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: story up on the Athletic yesterday. I thought it was hilarious. Uh,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Steven Mattz pitched an inning and relief on Monday, so
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: he my expectation was coming into Tuesday he would pitch
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: an inning and relief and I understand why. Chip and
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Brat on the Cardinals broadcast pointed out that when the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: top of this hour at the bottom of the seven started,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: how weird of a situation it was because nobody was
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: on the mound and Matt Spohnson comes running into the game. Unfortunately,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: one of the umpires had some heat exhaustion. But that
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: turned out to be a favorable break for the Cardinals
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: because it gave Sponson some time to warm up. They
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: had nobody up, nobody on the mound, so of course
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: this time of year, the speculation was Steven Matches got traded.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. No, there was a miscommunication between the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: phone lines and the dugout and the bullpen and sponson
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: never was never got up. So that was all. But
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I was thankfully everything all worked out. Matt's and I
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: laughed about it after the game. I was just thinking, like,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: what a crazy next forty eight hours. At the time
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: this is going to be, because we know the market
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: for the Cardinals believers is going to be so so extensive.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: So no, Stephen mass did not get traded last night.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: There's just a miscommunication, bad timing all around. I do
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: expect there to be a market for Steven Matts, will
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: start with him potentially as a swingman. As we know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals have used Matts mostly as a late inning,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: multi inning leverage reliever. Uh and he's thrived there, especially
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: against lefty hitters. I mean, left handed hitters are hitting
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: less than two hundred against him this year. Uh and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: he's had had a couple spot starts. He's up to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: forty pitches right now. He could be used as a swingman,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: and there are plenty of teams that are looking for
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: that role. Matts wants to start, but he's open to
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: anything really at this point, and I wonder if a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: team like Toronto, where he has pass past experience with
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed his time, would be a good fit there.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I do know that he's out about four point eight
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: million dollars left on that contract, so it's kind of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of money for a two month rental. But
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: to your point, Bertie, the market for relievers is in
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: such high demand that I could see Matt's going before
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: this deadline. May Ton, you know what you're gonna get
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: with him, veteran guy ample Post. He's an experience owed
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: seven hundred thousand dollars remaining on his contract. He's gonna go,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and he's gonna go quick. Ryan Helsley has several teams
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: in the mix, and we know they are at least
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the Tigers, the Dodgers, the Mets, the Blue Jays, and
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the Phillies. The Phillies' interest in Hellsley dates back to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the off season. Similar to many people around the organization
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and the industry as a whole, I believe all three
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: believers will be out of here come tomorrow afternoon. But
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to your point, Bernie, I understand why fans might be
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: skeptical that these deals either have a hang up in
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the return or don't get done. Regardless, it is objectively
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: weird to have two president Baseball Operations essentially running the show.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: John Mozailok will ultimately have the final say. And while
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: we're still working through figuring out the extent of heinm
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Bloom's involvement, he is involved. And I find it very,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: very hard to imagine an organization signing off on a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: prospect package for the future without including the man responsible
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: for building up the minor leagues. So Bernie, what are
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on all of this?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you know, if you go back
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to which at the beginning, I'll be honest with you,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I'll be chicken little here. I like the last night's
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: already gone. But I was thinking, no, no, no, no,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: do not put Matts out there for a second inning.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Just don't do it. He's got a history of injuries.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Just don't do it. Okay, what's the point? No offense
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to everyone down there sweating and working hard in the
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Cardinals uniform. I don't care if they want to lose
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: a game, the trade deadline, overrules are overrules all. I
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: would say the same thing about Hellzy tonight. If it's
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: a safe situation, keep him in the bullpen. I don't
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: want to see him because it would be the cardinal's luck.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: He comes out and something happens, and you know the rest.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: So no, just bubble wrap off limits, have security guards
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: out there. Won't let them actually walk through the gate
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: to come into a game. You got to have security
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: out there to prevent it anyway. I guess you could
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: say the same for Maton too, And I'm not trying
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: to be so clever here, but no, it's a very
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: weird situation. I wrote a column about it last week,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I think it was Friday on stal Sports Central. I
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: don't recall a situation like this ever in Saint Louis,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and I've been covering the pro sports in this market
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: since nineteen eighty five full time continuously since summer of
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: eighty nine. Never recall anything like this where you have
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the guy running the team has already said well, I'm leaving,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and he said it a long time ago, relatively speaking,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: and so he's got the authority he is going to
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: have the final say, he has got the power to control,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to make all of the decisions as he is basically
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: moves closer to the door, and he won't be around
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: to see or have to deal with good or bad
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: those trades, the trades that he's going to make, the
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: ones that go If some of them go bad or
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: some of them aren't even completed, well that impacts the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: next guy. That impacts heim Bloom. Like, whatever MO does,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and I hope he does well for his sake and
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: for the Cardinal's sake and him Bloom's sake, but what
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: would But if MO screws this up somehow, well MO
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to worry about it. He's gone. It's like
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: not his problem anymore. But the guy who the guys,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the guy who would have be left dealing with that
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: problem and the consequences is heim Bloom. And I think,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: just I just think that's ridiculous, because here's the deal, Katie,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: because I was thinking about this a lot. Listen, if
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: they had just hired heim Bloom this season, Like let's
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: just say he showed up down in Jupiter in March
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, what is he doing here? Well,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: they brought him in as a consultant, Okay, but he's
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: had two years to study everything about the Cardinals. And
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I know his project obviously was an important one, which
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: is to you know, re re restore the minor league system,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: player development and all all things related to that. But
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: heim Bloom, who is an incredibly smart man, he has
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: had basically two years to study the Cardinals. I think
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: he can make decisions about trades. I think he knows
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals personnel. And with heim Bloom and all of
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: his lieutenants out there, including some in the minor leagues
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: right now, you know, like rob'sortfolio, Larry Day, some other ones,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Matt Pierpont and him, has a great network. I'm pretty
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: sure they have a great handle on prospects out there.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: So since the guy whatever comes out of this trade deadline,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: heim Bloom is going to have to deal with it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: So why not just let him make the call. Because
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: let me tell you something, if after studying the Cardinals
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: for nearly two years and he's not he doesn't have
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: the capability to make a trade, well why are you
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: putting him in charge for your foreseeable future? It doesn't
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: make any sense. But of course he does have the
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: capability of making the trades, and I would prefer him
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: to do it because he has to live with whatever
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: comes out of it. Johamazelek doesn't.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: That's a fair point. And I know you are not
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: suggesting that John Azelac doesn't care about the return. Okay,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: he obviously cares about getting in it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Sure he does.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Why I do think heim Bloom is in consultation and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: working with MO to make sure they get a prospect
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: package that matters for the future. MO has set it
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: on the record, we're looking towards the future. And if
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: there's one thing heim Bloom knows, it's player development and evaluation.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: He is one of the best in the game at
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: doing so, whether you're looking at his work in Tampa Bay,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: whether you're working looking at his work in Boston. I mean,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: you look at the Red Sox now on some of
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: those players that have popped up from the minor league system.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: That's why he's here, because the Cardinals desperately needed some
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: outside perspective in their player development and evaluation model. So
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: he's going to do it. And I would hope that
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: these two are working to make sure they can capitalize
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: on a return, because you are right Bernie. It's him
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: who's going to have to manage these assets when they
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: come back. And I hate talking about players like that
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: in that way where they're just like pieces. But at
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: this during this week especially, everything is a business. So
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that's just kind of the harsh reality of where we're at.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I understand why fans again are skeptical about Mo calling
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the shots, and maybe this is on me for not
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: prophrasing it in the way. When I say Mo is
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: calling the shots, I mean he is ultimately the president
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: of baseball opera. He is the decision maker for the
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: forty man roster, for the entire baseball operations. He is
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the final say. That doesn't mean he's not listening to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the input of the new player development system. That doesn't
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: mean that he is just you know, outed Bloom. I
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: think that him is going to have a significant say
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: in this prospect return because this deadline is not about
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: acquiring major league ready talent. It's about acquiring talent for
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the future. And if it comes out that he doesn't,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: then we're going to have a much, much bigger problem.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: But for right now, I would I want to trust
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: that these two are working together. It's what I've heard
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: within the organization that it's kind of just a big cloud.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals are very secretive and how they operate at
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: this deadline we will find out eventually, But right now
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I think Bernie and I both we cannot overstate how
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: important it is that the Cardinals nail their returns for Hellsley,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Mayton and Matts. And you know what a quick side
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: thing on Mayton before we get to some of the
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: news over the Smartlin series. He doesn't want to go anywhere.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I sat down with him on Monday and he said,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I signed my contract for the summer to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: be here. I would like to stay. But he's also
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: been traded in July three times in his nine year career,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: including last year. He knows how this is going to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: go down. I think the Cardinals should consider bringing him
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: back next year on another free agent deal. He has
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: been instrumental in that bullpen. Ollie Marmal said it best.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: He said, you think about where we are without Phil.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: It gets ugly real quick that it does.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: While it's going to hurt to see all three of
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: these guys go, all three have been very good Cardinals.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I hope the Cardinals are open to bringing Mayton back
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: next year. I thought he did a lot of good
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: things for them.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: No doubt about it. And listen, I look forward to where,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: for for for the fans, for Katie Wu and Derek
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Gould and John Denton and everyone who covers the team
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: in a daily basis. Look, I look forward to the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: day which is coming soon where And this is not
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: a cheap shot at MO. It's just the reality where
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: there will be clarity about who's running everything will be you.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Know, make sense that they're being secretive. I got it.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and that cloud's not there. I will
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: say this, I'll be curious to see, you know, is
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Moe going to play hard to get? Is he going
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: to overplay his hand? That's one question I have And
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying he will. I just wonder about that.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: The other thing is, I've been talking to some people
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that know heym Bloom very very well, and they say
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: that other gms are President Baseball Operations, whatever you want
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: to call them, the people that run these departments, that
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: they like him a lot because he's great to deal with.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: He's a really straightforward guy, but he's not he doesn't
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: try to be a con man. He doesn't try to bs.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, he gets down to it. You know, this
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: is what we have, this is what we're looking for.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about your prospects. What are you willing to do.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's a straightforward conversation, and they know that. You know,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: when you deal with heim Bloom, you can count on
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: his integrity. You can count on the fact that he
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: plays it straight. He's not going to be playing all
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: these games to slow it down and gum it up.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And he's a dama free guy, right And I think
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: in the future that will serve the Cardinals very well,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: because listen, I know this from my extensive experience covering
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Moe as the leader of the baseball races. One of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: the things I've heard from other teams along the way.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true now, but along the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: way it's like, you know, the problem is, you know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: he wants to win every deal. Now, of course he does.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: That's a shock, But other executives have told me it's
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: like he wants to win every deal, but he doesn't
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: just want to win the deal. He wants to like
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: slaughter the other side, like he wants to win it,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: as if he's like rolling the tanks over over the
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: other side, and they they kind of find him unreasonable
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: because a lot of guys straight shooters. It's like, Okay,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: this is what I need. Let's get down to it.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: This is what I need. Maybe we can compromise on
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: this prospect or that prospect, but you know, let's make
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a trade that's going to help both of this and
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: that'll be easy. And I think MO, I think MO,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: when things started to go bad here, got into this mindset.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: It's like, I must conquer everyone. You know, you're not.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be hard to make It's harder to make
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: trades when you have that kind of thing. So, and
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that's been his rep in the past. I have no
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: idea about now.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: As someone who can often come across as overly aggressive,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I do respect that mentality, but we have Actually, this
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: is a really cool series that we're doing at the
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Athletic where our national writers canvassed executives throughout the league
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and talked about it's I think a four part series.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Part three drop today how execs negotiate with each other.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And I think series two talked about the importance of
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the dues and the don'ts and being straight up and
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: being honest and transparent goes a long way than playing
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: any kind of games. And I'm not in the room,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not on the phone calls. I don't know how
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: John Mozaelock negotiates with the other executives. I don't know
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: how I'm Bloom negotiates with other executives. But I thought
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: this story in particular was really illuminating on how that
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: all works. Again, I think four part series out on
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the Athletic. Check it out. Also, if on the Athletic,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you can stay up to date with all the things
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: we got going on. Yeah, this has been last night.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: What I'm hearing about the Cardinals trade deadline with less
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: than forty hours, forty eight hours to go. Some info
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: on Hellsley, Matt's and Nolan Arnotto no substantial attraction picking
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: up on his trade front there. We also, if I
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: can figure out how to do this correctly, have a
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: live blog at the Athletic where you can stay up
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: to date on all of the trades. Here. I'll pull
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: it up for you, guys.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I was looking at it just before we started.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It's great, It's really helpful. I use it an I
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: never closed the tab on my computer. This is open
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: all the time, updated literally by the minute, with any
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: kind of news, rumors, analysis, and it's from all thirty teams.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: It's not just Cardinals specific. It's a really handy tool.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: While we were going in on our segment, however, the
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: relief market did start to pick up the athletics, Ken
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Rosenthal reporting that Andrew Chaffin and excuse me, Luis Garcia
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: from the Nationals are heading to the Angels. I do
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: not know what the Angels are doing. Apparently they're not selling.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: But you know, okay, so the.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Relief Okay, I would have sworn you were gonna tell me,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: like the Blue Jays or you know, you know, the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Reds or you know, somebody like that. Maybe even yeah,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: maybe even I'm like even like a team that's still
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: in it that needs both on help, like the Rangers
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the Angels.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Marcus hitting out, Andrew Chafin and Luis Garcia
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: are headed to Anaheim. When we're headed to a quick break,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a message from DraftKings and we'll get into some non
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: trade in the trade deadline, news about the roster, about
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• 25:41
  Speaker 1: All right, some unfortunate news to start the week on
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Monday to coh Roobia, I'm sorry on Friday. The news
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: was announced on Monday to co Roby under when Tommy
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: John surgery, he'll miss the twenty twenty six season, most
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: likely won't be ready for twenty twenty seven. That's a
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: significant blow in no matter how you look at it. He
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: entered the season as the Athletics or as the Cardinals'
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: number six overall prospects according to the Athletics Keith Law.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: But no matter where you get your prospect frankings, whether
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it's from Baseball America and WELLB pipeline, the overwhelming consensus
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: was that co Roby was a top ten pick in
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: the organization and he was having a really strong year
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: promoted to Triple A in June, was building up some
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: consideration to be you know, under consideration for a rotation spot.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Comes spring training instead, it's another devastating hit. This is
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: what happens when you have guys that throw hard with
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: a ton of spin. These kinds of injuries, unfortunately are
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: not you know, their League spread. This is not just
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: a Cardinals exclusive problem. So real bummer for the organization.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I was really excited for Roby next year, and as
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: we know Bernie triple A depth continues to be a
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: big problem for this organization. I wonder if that's something
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the organization is looking to address at the deadline with
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: some of their returns.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because isn't just Roby, you know, Cooper Europe needed,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Tommy John and simmer Robasaw needed. I believe Tommy John.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: But they're they're they're non factors for twenty six and
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: those are tough glows for an organization that is really
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: thin on starting pitching, which will be a priority. Can
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I just point out one silver lining? And there's nothing
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: good about a good prospect like Roby having surgery, Okay,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: but there is a silver lining when the car as
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: you know, when the Cardinals got him from the Rangers,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: everything you read about it is like, look, he's got
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: really good stuff, but he's you know, he's got recurring
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: elbow problems. And then he came here it was the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: same thing. They had to shut him down a couple times,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: these recurring elbow problems because he never had surgery. He'd
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: put it off, put it off, put it off. We
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: think he'll be okay. Well, clearly that wasn't going to
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: go away, and it was inevitable that he would have
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Tommy John surgery. And I'm looking at this way, he's
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: had it, and he's going to put that stuff behind him.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: All these delays, stops and starts, elbow sores, shut it down,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: elbow shres. You know, you get the thing done and
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: then you can move on with your career. And I
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: think that that could be a positive because the cardinal
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: will still have him at full eligibility, you know, like
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: for six seasons basically, and so that's okay. I know
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't sound okay to him because he won't
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: be able to pitch it till twenty twenty seven. But
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: there can be some value in this given his long
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: history of elbow issues.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And he's only twenty three years old, so there's time.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I think Roby is a really exciting talent. It just
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: stings because it looks like he was figuring things out.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was nasty and double a some really
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: high strakeout numbers and triple as he adjusted that level
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of talent, and it's just an unfortunate break for an
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: organization that really needs depth in a lot of areas,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: which apparently now includes the outfield. Because Von Herrera, new
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: left fielder for the Saint Louis Cardinals, made his first
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: career start in left field on Monday, it has a
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: perfect one thousand percent career fielding percentage in left field
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: because he successfully successfully recorded his one and only put
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: out that night. This is a move that we talked
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: about on the podcast. We've talked about with Alie Marmel
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: about the Cardinals maybe entertaining Herrera in the outfield in
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the off season. I didn't think this is going to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: occur in the last week of July, but the Cardinals
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: are doing it for a reason that makes sense. We
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: know that Herrera is not going to catch for the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: rest of the season, but keeping him at just DH
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: really claws up the roster for so many other guys,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and it also limits Herrera's positional flexibility. So they think
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Herrera is athletic enough to go out there and try
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: out the corner outfield, and I would agree Herrera is very,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: very athletic, but they can't have him be the DH
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: every day because you're going to take away a bast
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: from Nolan Gorman. Alec Gurlissen needs a half day every
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: now and then, and you can't Nolan Gorman. He needs
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a half day every now and then. You can't just
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: have Herrera as your everyday DH because it complicates the
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: rest of the lineup. At this point, with the Cardinals
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: projecting to sell and the next two months maybe looking
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: not as optimistic, I'm okay with the Cardinals experimenting the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: next two months. It's kind of what the season is for.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: And Bernie, I know you have a lot of good
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: points about this, and I want to hear it. But
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: my main takeaway is is it weird? Yeah, a little bit,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: But are are we going to maybe going to see
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: some ugly plays? We might, But the Cardinals went into
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the season hoping to find out answers about their players.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: They seem to have found out that von Herrera is
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: not their catcher of the future, but now they have
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the opportunity they also found out that he is the bat.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: He is a bat of the future for sure. Now
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: they have the opportunity to find out if outfield is
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: a reasonable position for him and if the Cardinals finished
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season and they have definitively answered that
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yvon Herrera is not their catcher of the future, but
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: he can hit. That's still a win for me in
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: evaluating the organization because you answer something definitively and that
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: was the goal of the season.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much here. First of all, I love
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: this move, and I love this move because it also
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: represents that the Cardinals are fully connected to reality. Here.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: This is a chance to get a head start on
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: what you want to happen going forward. You would love
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: for him to be able to be your left fielder
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: because it makes all the sense in the world. Because
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: let me tell you something. I did some research on
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: this yesterday. A couple of things. One thing, I'll be
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: really really really quick. I'm talking about homegrown players. I'm
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: talking about people signed or developed by the Cardinals. In
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: terms of what he's done so far in his career,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and granted it's a relatively small sample, this is the
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: most successful right handed hitter developed by the Cardinals in
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: terms of where his weighted runs created. Plus is so
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: far the most successful or at least so far the
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: best right handed hitter they have developed since a guy
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: named pool Holes. I'm not saying he is pool Hooles.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I'm saying he's the best right handed bet that they selected,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: signed and developed Since Poolholes that has been a real, real,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: real big problem within the organization. They've had to go
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: trade for right handed hitters who can play the outfield,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and this is one of their own. So why not
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: get started on this, Like why sit there and be
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: stupid and say, well, we can still catch these other things? No,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you can't. Not with that starting pitching some games.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Back in the division and the rotation has like a
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: five hundred ra right now.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I was sort of I was sort of,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you know, debating with fans on X and I don't
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: understand why they're so they're so upset about this. Avon
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Herrera may be your best hitter, right It's either him
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: or Contraras. But but Avon Herrera is growing into it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: He's going to be a great hitter. He already is. Okay, Okay,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: let me see something your outfield in terms of like
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: counting plate appearances taken by guys who were playing outfield
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: in that game, not playing another position. Since the start
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: of last season, the Cardinals outfield offensively has had the
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: worst production in the National League, and if you even
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: sort of take it down to another level, we all
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: know they have a lot of left handed hitters in
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: their outfield.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: YEP.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Over the last two years, right handed hitting outfielders, and
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of that's shord Walker, but right handed hitting
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: outfielders in the Cardinals have hit two oh six with
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: the three twenty four slugging percentage, and they're according to
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Way to Runs Creative plus they're thirty one percent below
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: average offensively. Huh, well, we have a guy we think
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: we can play outfield. Oh, he's a right handed bat.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Oh we have no offense from their outfield or outfle
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I think someone bur Liston's out there. Well, here's a
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: chance to a boost our outfield capability offensively. A. Okay,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that's a good reason. B. We have time to work
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: on this. It's like we're not saying, well, he's our
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: left fielder for the next ten years. No, no, no,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: they're getting the process started and see if you can
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: get him to be a good bat in left field
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: and really upgrade your offense out there and give you
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: more right handed presidents out there. It also opens up
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the d H spot for another good bat who might
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: otherwise be blocked. So I know, I say, you know,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: I'm exascerated, Like, so, what is the problem here is
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: this is the upside and the ceiling on this is outstanding.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, another thing I don't understand is people
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: who never learned from history. The Cardinals under Tony Larusa,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again, always said left field
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: is a back first position. I don't really give a
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: damn about the guys playing defense because it's the easiest
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: position to play. Some people say, no, first base is
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: go ask Lance Berkman about that. He's, oh my god,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I hated playing first base. I hated it. I was
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: like Tony, no, no, no, put me in right field now.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I don't want to play first one. That is tough.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know why people assume that's the easiest mission
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: to play anyway. LaRussa always sacrificed defense for offense. And
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: some of the guys he put out there were awkward looking. Okay,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Chris Duncan was awkward looking, But the year they won
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: the World Series in two thousand and six, the dude
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: slug five ninety. Okay, I don't care that he wasn't
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: graceful in left field. He could hit. You got his
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: bat in the lineup. You could live with some defensive
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: defensive flaws. They didn't cost you games. His slugging won
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you games. Matt Holliday a guy that you know, I
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: looked at every year. He was below average defensively in
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: left field, but he in terms of wins above replacement.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: From two thousand and nine through twenty fifteen, he was
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: the top outfielder in the National League six All Star
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: teams MVP votes in four seasons. He anchored teams that
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: were going to the playoffs. Every year. He had great
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: numbers and runners of scoring position, he had great numbers.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: He was like top five offense among all outfielders. Okay,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: did he look clumsy playing left field? Yeah? And people
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: send me emails going nuts, just going nuts. Oh, this
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: is the disgrace. You know. It is a back first position.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: If you get a good defender out there, okay, that's great.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: But if I remember as you do, there was a
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: thought around town, you know, Alec Burlson in the early days,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: trying to play corner outfield. It's like, oh my gosh,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh. He looks like a big, you know,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: water buffalo out there just running running wild. You know
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: he'll never be able to play outfield. Not he'll be awful. Okay.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Oli Marmel gave him an ultimate He said, look, you're
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: gonna have to get better defensively, that's all there is
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: to it, or you're not gonna We can't play you. Okay,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Burt listened to his credit, worked really really hard. Alec Burlison,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah he did. And I'll shut up after this. Alec Burlison,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: as of yesterday, he was a plus one in defensive
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: run saved in left field, and he was a plus
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: one and out's above average in left field. He is
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: now a slightly above average outfielder, So don't tell me.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: And who's a better athlete? Who runs better? Is it Herrera? Burlson?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Horeras an athlete on the team. So you got all
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: these people out there condemning the move before they let
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the process begin, and they forget already that Alec Berlison,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: who is not the athlete that Herrara was, has has
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: become a perfectly serviceable average corner outfielder. Do we not
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: learn anything from what we've just watched? Anyway? You can
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: tell I'm annoyed by this, anyway, I like you.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. The upside is high, and I
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: understand the like, oh on a position change, but especially
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: now as we pitot towards a true development season and
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: not this halfway you know, balancing runway results thing that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: we did in the first half. As we finished the
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: final two months of the season, and the Cardinals are
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: focusing on truly twenty twenty six and beyond, why not
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: give some of these players a head start. Why not
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: see what Yvon Herrera can do. That was the point
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: of this season. So I'm with you, Bernie. I'm with
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: you there, and I know we'll continue to talk about Herrera.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: He's not going to play there every day. It's going
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: to be when the matchup best suggests that they're certainly
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: not going to put him out there when there's a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: heavy fly ball hit or pull side or pitcher excuse me,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: pull side Polante. The Cardinals felt like it was a
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: good time to start Herrera on a Polante start, because Polante,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: as you know, is usually on the ground and very
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: rarely pull side in the air. So we'll continue to
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: see him sporadically. But I have throw issue with this move.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: You yeah, and he's got John Jay By side every day. Right,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Is he gonna have John Jay by side every day
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: in the offseason. No, let the process begin. And you
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: know what, I expect there were to be some pratfalls.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: I expect them to be some stumbles, awkward moments. I
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: expect them to mess up. I don't care. This is
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: about the future. It's not about the remaining weeks of
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Get that in our skulls. If we
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: get that in our skulls, don't understand.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: We got to do it so that the whole point
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: of the next two months is about next year. Some
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: quick housekeeping before we go. Nolan Gorman started a rehaba
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: assignment with Double A Springfield yesterday. That's Tuesday. Lars Newbar
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: will start his today, this is Wednesday. The hope is
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that both players could be back by the Dodgers series.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals will wrap up their series against the Marlins
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: tonight with Miles Michaelis on the mound off day in
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: San Diego Slash deadline Day tomorrow, and then a three
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: game set with the Padres, hopefully everyone calms down, no
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: more drama, and then LA on Monday. So again, the
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: hope is if the Cardinals will have both of those
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: guys back if not sooner, And in case you missed it,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: you can visit the Cardinal Territory Shop for all our
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: new merch. If you're watching this on YouTube, there's actually
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: a link to the or right under the screen. Just
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: scroll down like half an inch and then all these
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: things will pop up. We have shirts, we have mugs,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: we have backpacks, purses, notebooks. We're gonna get hat soon.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: We have quarter zips, sweatshirts, a ton of stuff. A
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: big thank you already to some who have already purchased
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: their gear. I can't wait to see it out and
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: about in Saint Louis. All right, Bernie, I have about
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds to wrap this one up because stuff is near,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the game is near. I have a flight to San
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Diego tonight, and things are about to get crazy. So
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: we'll have a trade deadline recap episode for you as
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: soon as we can get to it after the deadline
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: tomorrow and then off in the second half where all
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, our message changes, as we just talked about,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: from competing to the future. Can't wait to stick with
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: that or stick with you guys throughout the rest of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the season, talking about that Bernie. Thanks. As always, we'll
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: be back with you soon. You guys have a great
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: day and we'll be back with more deadline news when available.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks for watching.