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#049 - My Reflections On 50 Episodes Of Thinking Class · Thinking Class

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, classmates, and welcome to Thinking Class.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm John Gillam, and today I'm speaking with, well, myself and you, dear listener.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a management consultant, podcaster, and proud Northumbrian Englishman and Briton.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm recording this episode to mark 50 episodes of Thinking Class and almost one year.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to reflect on what I've learned, which episodes have proven popular and why they spoke deeply to me, and what I've had to start telling myself the deeper I have found myself getting into the topics of this podcast.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: As always, enjoy the show, classmates.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to subscribe, follow, share.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's grow this thing together.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's been almost a year.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're 10 days away from the one-year anniversary of starting thinking class.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to share with you some reflections from the first 49 episodes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: All the way back in episode number one, I started with a former colleague who worked with me at Deloitte, Tom Hancock's.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: We were effectively spitballing about philosophy, and my style and tone have changed a lot since then.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've found myself less afraid to show what I think about the subject, even those that have been somewhat kept behind the cordon sanitaire due to the censorious environment that we find ourselves in with public discourse.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I found myself generally being more succinct in what I'm saying, which isn't easy for a man who is not known for his nutshells.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I've certainly tried my best to reduce the rambling.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm much more cognizant of verbal ticks.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it has been an incredibly rewarding experience to start this podcast, even more than I supposed I thought it was going to be.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Getting the opportunity to interview some people with big public profiles, it's really humbling.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's humbling no matter what the profile of the person.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a profile.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have a very small profile now.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: But when I email people to say, here's what I think we should talk about, I'd love to invite you on.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I find you interesting.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that people, even when they haven't yet been on the show or are unable to come on the show, or simply don't want to come on the show, the fact that people even give me a response is a sign of respect.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's deeply humbling.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's even more so when people actually say they will come on, that they think there is an interesting conversation to be had.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So to all of you who've come on to Thinking Class, I'd like to thank you deeply.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not just because I get to record an episode and say I've done an episode, but because you've really helped change the way that I think, or you've helped deepen the way that I think.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: The other gratifying thing about having done this podcast is that it started to earn some money.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not a lot of money, but the first time it started to, it's quite a big thing.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I passed 1,000 subscribers, I think, back at the end of May or early June of 2024.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And when you start seeing the pound signs have numerical digits next to them that aren't 0.00, that feels good.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And yet it's also a fine balance, a balance not to just chase clicks and views for the sake of it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so with that in mind, I always try to do episodes that interest me.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I try to title them and name them in a way that captures their essence rather than solely go for clickbait.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, sometimes you need to be able to draw people in, and by doing so, you need to, or in doing so, you need to simplify what the message is.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Rory Sutherland, the the famous behavioral economist, uh marketer, he says that we ought to learn to speak to the elephant, that deep subconscious that that drives our decisions, and when we do make a decision, it's it's that that makes the decision and we rationalise it afterwards.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So speak to the deep the elephant.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm wary to do so, even if it is at the expense of listeners and and ultimately me and my pocket, because there are lots of people who do that already, but that's not the only reason why.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'm trying, I suppose, to create a podcast that thinks more deeply about the issues, allows people the space to explain what it is that they think and what they do that helps to persuade me and others in whatever it is that they're doing.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if I go clickbait, I'm not entirely sure I'll succeed at that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, it'll push people away.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I will see how it develops over time.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm certainly trying to improve my copywriting, but I don't want it to turn into block capital letters and using words like destroy and hate.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So what more is there to come?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, lots more, hopefully, lots more.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh at some point in the future, perhaps in the next year, I would like to start producing two episodes per week.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Things are busy.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I no longer work for Deloitte anymore.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working for a much smaller consultancy.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a much more involved job, and so I'm looking to outsource what it is that I do further.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have an editor, Greg, who I'm deeply thankful for.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: He does all the thumbnails on YouTube, he does all the audio and the video editing, and he uploads it for me.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I would I I need help.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I need to outsource more of the background activity so I can focus on the recording and the preparing for it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm able to get to that point, then I'll be able to start giving you, dear listeners, two episodes per week.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's others to come, there's other things to come.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping to launch a subscribers section on locals and on Substack to give people the opportunity to ask questions and to know who the upcoming guests are and to see the answers to those questions exclusively.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there are already some big names in the pipeline.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see how that develops.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to schedule and nail down a few interviews with with people who are very busy, but they have said they will come on.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So again, the faster we grow it, the faster people will agree to come on, and the more they'll prioritize coming on the show.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: That said, I'm deeply satisfied with the progress of the show.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I am doing this as a passion project.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I have not set out to achieve any specific number.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, I am proud of the numbers.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I went from, as you would expect, zero subscribers, zero views, and zero public profile at the beginning of my time.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now at 2,700 subscribers on YouTube, there are thereabouts.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: There have been over 200,000 views, downloads, and plays all together on the show.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And YouTube is easily the biggest platform.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't paid for clicks, and so this is all algorithm, and that's on almost 180,000 views.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Across the audio platforms, I'm on around 18 to 19,000 downloads and 10,000 plays.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: This, reading it back, really is something for someone with no public profile.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm happy with that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy with the progress, but I'm not going to get sidetracked by the numbers.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do the most interesting things I can with the podcast, and that means speaking to interesting people about interesting things and trying to go deeper than what we've come to expect in much of discourse online, whether it's on YouTube or on social media.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, which have been the most gratifying episodes for me?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think actually it's unfair for me to grade them in this way.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: There have been so many that have influenced me, and I know have influenced the listeners.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: But going right back to the beginning, episode number two with Khalil Carrazo, who I learned of on Substack.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Really interesting man from the Philippines.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: We spoke about the impact of philosophy and faith on contributing to a person leading not only an ordered life, but a more enriched life.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: One that helps you realize that you don't have to figure out life's lessons all for yourself.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And within that, we spoke about how understanding the different archetypes of people, particularly when it comes to those with power, can help us to understand the world and understand where we sit within it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Within that theme of gratifying episodes, Carl Truman was another.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: He is a wonderful man, a theologian, and uh uh born an Englishman, now in America, and we spoke about the degrading impact of the nihilistic and individualistic thoughts that have permeated our culture and have thus degraded each of us.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we spoke about a world that has coarsened, that has seized life cheaply.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: For example, we see the rise of assisted suicide.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what I really loved about Carl was he shows how you can be intellectually curious about ideas that you are fundamentally opposed to.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he, as an intellectual historian, is focused on tracing the genealogy of ideas as objectively as possible without veering off into polemic.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I could learn from.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you hear a lot of it on this podcast, but outside of the show, I certainly do get polemical about things that I'm in disagreement with.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Spencer Claven, he's an unbelievable man.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: He is episode 49.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's erudite, he's engaging, he's able to pull quotations and lessons from the great literature and philosophy of humanity at will.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And Spencer shows us why it's so important for each of us to read the classics that underpin Western civilization, to understand the biblical inheritance within Western civilization, particularly when the civilization itself and our understanding of human flourishing, dignity, and responsibility were built upon these books.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So his mission to re-enlighten, to re-enchant the culture is a deeply noble one.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, it's very inspiring and much needed in a world that reads much less, at least with regards to books, and finds itself reading lots of disparate short messages, videos, pictures.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: We are making ourselves illiterate, not just in the ability of reading books, but to read the culture, to create a culture, to build one, and thus to maintain the one that we inherited.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dear classmate John here, this isn't an advert, so you don't need to reach for the skip button.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you're enjoying the show, then show your support by liking, subscribing, and sharing on whichever device or platform you are watching or listening to Thinking Class on.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can find me in the show on YouTube at Thinking Class.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can also subscribe to me on Substack, searching for the at Thinking Class handle, or by entering thinkingclass.substack.com in your browser, and you can receive reflections, blog series, and recommended reading to your inbox.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can also follow me on X at Thinking Classes.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, thanks for sharing, thanks for showing your support.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the rest of the show, classmate.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And as a as a Briton, as uh a man who lives in in Edinburgh, who's a a proud Northumbrian from near Newcastle, and a proud Englishman, I care about the state of my country clearly.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so there have been many episodes which have been on that.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the first episodes that really got me to the core, and I think to a few of my listeners, and I know some of my family and friends, was the episode with Lionel Schreifer.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: She tells us how there are too many ideologues out there, and she was focusing specifically on the left, but it can be true of the right, is that ideas are often focused on over reality, and ultimately, like Spencer Claven tells us, ideas in the end, when they're not based upon reality, will be thrown to one side as reality comes rushing back in.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Lionel spoke to me in depth about her painful decision and departure to leave the UK.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: She's American, she lived in the UK for many years, and she left because she saw it going down the Swannee to use a British idiom.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: She was talking about how having lived in London, Southeast London, she could see a culture of taking among newcomers, but also natives, and that the the the cities of the country and its culture had become degraded, and it was a black pill episode, and yet it is paradoxically enjoyable.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're in for a hard listen, go in to listen to Lionel Schreiber.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: William Cleuston was the politician that I think everyone wishes there were more were more of when they hear him speak.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's the leader of the Social Democratic Party, the party that was created out of a uh a bunch of Labour members in the 80s who had split off and had always sat in the background since the 90s, not really with a lot of public profile.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: William has been changing that, and he's been leading the party in a way that has brought him a lot of credit amongst people on the left and the right.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's because he's thoughtful, he doesn't speak in slogans, he's straight to the point, and he's willing to expand on what he thinks, he doesn't get defensive, he generally always has an answer, but he's open to debate.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So to listen to a politician like this when it has become so normal to hear people speak purely in platitudes and repeated slogans that have been handed down from a party machinery my hat's off, my hat's is off to William Clewston.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Connor Tomlinson is one of the biggest moments I've had on the show.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: He is Erudite.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: My fiance and her friends who listened said it was a perspective they're not used to hearing from someone in Generation Z or Z.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Connor told us that they're angry at being left no cultural inheritance by the boomers, the year zero ideology that came in from the 1960s.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: He spoke of the worsened well-being and community relations, which he puts to the top-down erosion of Christianity and public life, and talked about how individualism and consumerism made us sick as individuals and a culture, and that our politics and culture that now spends much of its time trying to avoid reality is causing us all quite deep distress.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And his friend and contemporary Charlie Downs was also on the show.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: We spoke about the rise of the Anglo-Zuma, which is to say, Generation Z folks who, in the rise of this identity politics, have started to find themselves embracing their Anglo heritage, which is to say from the English-speaking world.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose the takeaway from this was that homophily, birds of a feather flock together, is what that means, is a real thing.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: That when identity politics has been pushed to the very limit, and everyone else has been told that they have this very distinct identity from the majority identity, and it is to be celebrated, and the majority one is to be subverted, that in the end, the majority identity will start to reassert itself and it can't be stopped.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there are other guests like Alka Segal Cuthbert of Don't Divide Us, who understand it but doesn't think it'll fix anything.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, I think classical liberal thought is on the out among the younger generation.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're likely to get a burst of different people seeking cultural, national, and maybe even ethnic glory because of this world of multiculturalism, identity politics.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose as another guest, Ben Cobley, told us we're seeing the institutional erasure of the English within Britain with various systems set up against them, that it was only a matter of time before people on the British Isles started to react against multiculturalism.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Doug Stokes was a guest which highlights why this all represents a day as a danger.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: As conflicts rise, how do those involved keep their hearts pure?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: If, for example, a majority decides it's had enough of a certain way, how can people avoid the country becoming, say, a Bosnia of the 2020s?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was shocked by a few comments made on that video where people accuse us of being a controlled opposition as though they wanted there to be some kind of civil war and civic conflict, which to me seems like a crazy thing to wish for.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if we are seeing the rise of a national identity once more, Doug Stokes has a point.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: How is it that we make sure it doesn't turn into uh a very messy conflict?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been talking a lot about culture.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Paul Embury, I think the episode gave so many amazing sound bites, but one of his key messages was that people don't just want economic solutions, but they do want cultural stability, which mass immigration doesn't provide.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, whilst we're talking a lot about the impact of immigration, changing demographics, and the rise of uh a British identity, as it were, back into the mainstream, uh uh a development economist and a historian, John Rapley and Peter Heather, came on to tell us, well, not all problems in an empire or a nation come down to immigration.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: We all understand the Roman Empire fell because of the barbarian invasion.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they say it's not just because of that, it's also because of financial mismanagement.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can't discount debt bubbles.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it is true.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the Western world has maxed out its credit card.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yet, at the same token, we can't also discount that the importation of lots of people with different ideas about the world and the people in it will contribute to the changing face of a polity.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, where does this all leave us with regards to who governs us?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Frank Fouray has been on twice.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: He posits that these problems have ultimately led to a deeply mistrusted elite governing class.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this class committed to globalization, irrespective of the 2016 Brexit and Trump votes, committed to the Schengen in Europe, mass immigration, and even enabling illegal immigration, even though no one wants it and wants something done about it, as well as being committed to high levels of debt, that this is all fueling populism.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked him, will there be a reformation within the current ruling class and approach to ruling government?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, no, there won't be a come to Jesus moment.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Reform's not possible, only replacement.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, where does all this go?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can't predict it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that was something that Peter Hitchens told me.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: As someone who is very good at predicting, He did tell me, well, let's not jump into making predictions.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: This was my biggest interview.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's had 36,000 views at time of recording, and it is the toughest.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's an extraordinarily well-educated man.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's unafraid to interrupt and disagree.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he walked out on a more famous podcaster than me, C.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Alex O'Connor.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed the episode, and I think he did.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And Peter made me heavily reflect on my interview style and the questions that I ask.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there were also two early episodes that got to me for different reasons.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, was Esme Partridge, where she spoke about the dangers of AI, namely, that AI is going to destroy creativity, memory, and knowledge because it bypasses the processes that create those things, that leads to those things.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that we ought to remember Plato and his uh explanation that the mind is like a waxen lump that we carve grooves into our minds each time that we do something.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so by handing it over to an algorithm and a large language model to do a scrape of all the information and provide us with an answer, we're never going to go through that process.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're not going to cultivate our own minds.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the other was Matthew Davis.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's a researcher of business ethics at Leeds University, and he piqued my interest due to his work on epistemic humility.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew's focused on making sure business students understand what they don't know, and therefore telling them that they should go into interactions in the world in a more humble way, which I'm sure is a good thing for some of the more cocksure MBA students.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yet his concept of epistemic humility seemed to run counter to humility itself because he focused on how this could be achieved through a focus on the United Nations sustainable development goals.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that made me wonder how you could be humble when engaged in that kind of activity.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you apply such a broadly objective set of standards that are designed in a cosmopolitan center in an urban office among a bunch of liberal metropolitan folks to a wide range of peoples and places and thinking about global governance, this doesn't tend to lead to epistemic humility.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'd have thought it would do the opposite.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe if we want to breed epistemic humility, getting students from these institutions out into the world of practical work, you know, working with their hands, building things, living in testing conditions, putting the body to the test, that would inspire epistemic humility when you realize that the world is more than an abstraction on a spreadsheet.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what message do I have here?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I suppose all of these things it's hard not to feel down.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard not to feel defeated, and yet we can't be because Dumerism helps nobody.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to know how bad things can get, but you cannot be consumed by it.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it reflecting on this, it made me remember a philosophical tool or a philosophical concept by Martin Heidegger, Geworfenheit, which means thrownness in German.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what that is, is that we didn't choose the age that we live in.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were thrown into it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we must understand that we're free, that we are responsible for everything we do as we work our way through our own portion of history, and that nothing in history is ever finished or finalized.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's always moving on.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so each of us must live our life.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: We must control the portions that we can.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: We must seek to persuade where possible.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: We should seek to reach our own individual potential and seek to enable our family and those around our family to reach theirs.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we should live truthfully.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is one of the ways in which I seek to do that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, I want to thank all of you for your support.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's deeply humbling to know that there are people out there who tune in and have bought into what I'm doing here.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And here's to many more thinking classes.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show's classmates.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: To keep up to date with all that I am doing, please subscribe to the Thinking Class YouTube channel at Thinking Class and follow me on X at Thinking Classes.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking Class seeks to understand the civilizational issues we face and why what our leaders do in response matters.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here I seek to explore the ideas, values, and culture that made our civilization, those that are unmaking it, and how leaders at our public and private institutions should respond.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Engage with me on YouTube or X or write to me at thinkingclasspod at gmail.com to tell me who you want me to speak to and what topics are important to you.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to seeing you there and for joining me on this journey.