Latest / Andy Stanley Sermons / Andy Stanley - Addressing Organization Languishing with Adam Grant

Transcript

Andy Stanley - Addressing Organization Languishing with Adam Grant · Andy Stanley Sermons

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.
0:06
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed
0:09
Speaker 2: to help leaders go further faster. I'm Andy Stanley, and
0:12
Speaker 2: before we jump into today's content, I wanted to talk
0:15
Speaker 2: about a special offer from our friends at BLAZ. From
0:18
Speaker 2: startups to large corporations, we all want to grow, but
0:21
Speaker 2: as a leader, you need extra time to do what
0:24
Speaker 2: only you can do.
0:25
Speaker 1: It's one of the things.
0:25
Speaker 2: That all of us struggle with and this is where
0:28
Speaker 2: our friends at BLAY can help. Blay will help you
0:30
Speaker 2: free up your time and allow you to focus on
0:32
Speaker 2: the things that matter most to your success and make
0:35
Speaker 2: the biggest difference in your organization. Because whether you need
0:38
Speaker 2: a highly vetted US based virtual assistant, bookkeeper, social media manager,
0:43
Speaker 2: or website specialist, BLAZ as the right person ready to
0:47
Speaker 2: help right now and to help you get started, BLAT
0:50
Speaker 2: is offering their latest book, Delegate to Elevate, for free.
0:55
Speaker 1: Delegate to Elevate, you can get this book for free.
0:57
Speaker 2: It's an ebook and it'll help you learn how to
0:59
Speaker 2: stop del looting your efforts and trusting your team with
1:02
Speaker 2: more responsibility. This will empower you to courageously focus on
1:06
Speaker 2: your strengths and delegate your weaknesses, which is one of
1:09
Speaker 2: the things that every great leader does. To claim this offer,
1:13
Speaker 2: you just need to text the word Andy A and
1:15
Speaker 2: d Y too five to five one two three.
1:18
Speaker 1: That's Andy to five to five one two three, and
1:20
Speaker 1: get your free copy today.
1:22
Speaker 2: You'll get at no time, and you'll be back to
1:24
Speaker 2: doing what only you can do, which is growing your organization.
1:30
Speaker 2: And now let's jump into today's content. I'm excited to
1:33
Speaker 2: have Adam Grant in the studio. We're talking about languishing. Adam,
1:37
Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking a few minutes to
1:39
Speaker 2: be with us today.
1:39
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it.
1:40
Speaker 3: Thank you. Andy.
1:41
Speaker 4: I'd say I'm excited to be here, but I don't
1:43
Speaker 4: know if that's appropriate given that we're going to talk
1:45
Speaker 4: about languishing it.
1:46
Speaker 2: So I just say, man, great illustration. That will make
1:52
Speaker 2: more sense to podcast listeners in just a minute. For
1:54
Speaker 2: the handful of you who are unfamiliar with Adam, Adam
1:58
Speaker 2: has been Wharton's top rated professor get this for seven years.
2:01
Speaker 2: He's an organizational psychologist. He's been recognized as one of
2:05
Speaker 2: the world's ten most influential management thinkers. And perhaps where
2:10
Speaker 2: you became familiar with his name is where I did.
2:12
Speaker 2: Through his publishing, he's a number one New York Times
2:14
Speaker 2: bestselling author with five books sold.
2:16
Speaker 1: Millions of copies.
2:18
Speaker 2: This month, we're going to talk about this viral piece
2:21
Speaker 2: that he did on languishing.
2:23
Speaker 1: It was and Adam, this must have taken you by surprise.
2:26
Speaker 2: It was the most read New York Times article of
2:30
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, plus the most saved article across all
2:34
Speaker 2: social media platforms. So for those of you who are
2:38
Speaker 2: not familiar with this content, you are in for a
2:40
Speaker 2: real treat. So Adam, give us again. I imagine you
2:45
Speaker 2: were shocked by the response, right.
2:47
Speaker 3: I was not prepared, that's for sure.
2:49
Speaker 4: I had a feeling I was going to strike a
2:50
Speaker 4: chord because it was a light bulb moment for me
2:53
Speaker 4: to realize that I was languishing, and so I thought
2:56
Speaker 4: it would resonate with some other people.
2:57
Speaker 3: I had no idea what that was going to look like.
2:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing.
3:00
Speaker 2: So backing up just a little bit, give us a
3:02
Speaker 2: little bit of background on the topic the word, and
3:06
Speaker 2: you know where did this begin?
3:08
Speaker 4: I think the early days of COVID were really dominated
3:11
Speaker 4: by a sense of fear grief for a lot of people.
3:14
Speaker 3: Loneliness.
3:15
Speaker 4: And then at some point, I think probably in the
3:18
Speaker 4: late spring early summer of twenty twenty, we went from
3:21
Speaker 4: this acute anguish to more of chronic language. It was
3:24
Speaker 4: that groundhog Day feeling that people were describing, where they
3:27
Speaker 4: would say, you know, I'm having trouble concentrating, I'm in
3:29
Speaker 4: a pandemic fog. And I didn't actually recognize it at first,
3:33
Speaker 4: but I got a call from Tara Parker Pope at
3:36
Speaker 4: the New York Times and she said, you know, I
3:37
Speaker 4: keep hearing people talk about this vague feeling.
3:40
Speaker 3: What is it?
3:41
Speaker 4: And I started cycling through It's not depression. People still
3:44
Speaker 4: have hope, it's not burnout, they still have energy.
3:48
Speaker 3: What is it?
3:49
Speaker 4: And I remembered this, this work by Corey Key as
3:51
Speaker 4: a sociologist on languishing, and it just clicked. He defined
3:55
Speaker 4: languishing as a sense of emptiness and stagnation, or you
3:58
Speaker 4: might call it on we it feels like you are
4:02
Speaker 4: just a little bit aimless and a little bit joyless.
4:05
Speaker 4: And I think a lot of people have felt that
4:07
Speaker 4: during the pandemic, because it feels like the world is
4:10
Speaker 4: standing still.
4:11
Speaker 1: Yep.
4:11
Speaker 4: And I said, all right, maybe this is the neglected
4:14
Speaker 4: middle child of mental health. Maybe this is the defining
4:18
Speaker 4: emotion of twenty twenty one and now increasingly twenty twenty
4:20
Speaker 4: two as well.
4:22
Speaker 2: And so talk a little bit more, because I watched
4:25
Speaker 2: your Ted talk, and for those of you listening at
4:27
Speaker 2: as extraordinary Ted Talk, it's about like ten or eleven
4:30
Speaker 2: minutes where you tell a lot of the story.
4:31
Speaker 1: You're very funny, and the images are amazing.
4:34
Speaker 2: So just talk a little bit about how this impacted
4:37
Speaker 2: you personally, because again, this wasn't something you were observing
4:41
Speaker 2: as much as you were experiencing with everybody else.
4:43
Speaker 1: That's what makes this so fascinating.
4:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I.
4:46
Speaker 4: Should have known better, right as a psychologist, I study
4:48
Speaker 4: this for a living.
4:49
Speaker 3: I didn't even pinpoint it.
4:50
Speaker 4: I think my peak moment of languishing, which is really
4:54
Speaker 4: more like a trough than a peak, was I binged
4:57
Speaker 4: a whole season of a show on Netflix. I got
4:59
Speaker 4: to the last episode. I was like, wait a minute,
5:02
Speaker 4: I think I've already seen this before, and I wasn't
5:06
Speaker 4: even paying enough attention to really know if I had
5:08
Speaker 4: or not. And this kind of muddling through the day,
5:12
Speaker 4: right with not being energized as much as I would
5:15
Speaker 4: have been by the things I was looking forward to,
5:17
Speaker 4: even though you know, I still had some energy, not
5:21
Speaker 4: feeling the same meaning and purpose in the task that
5:24
Speaker 4: had brought that before. That was kind of the I
5:27
Speaker 4: guess the hallmark of languaging for me.
5:29
Speaker 2: And one of the things you talk about is that
5:31
Speaker 2: you feel like this is for many people, maybe not all,
5:34
Speaker 2: but for maybe most people, this is connected to work
5:38
Speaker 2: because so many of us were in an environment, in
5:41
Speaker 2: predictable environment to some extent in terms of work, and
5:43
Speaker 2: then suddenly that's gone, even if we're working from home,
5:46
Speaker 2: all of that's gone.
5:47
Speaker 1: So how does this connect to work life?
5:49
Speaker 4: I think actually one of the biggest causes of languishing.
5:52
Speaker 4: I have not seen a direct study on this yet,
5:55
Speaker 4: but I have a hunch that a lot of languishing
5:57
Speaker 4: is coming from zoom fatigue. That if you look at
6:00
Speaker 4: the research that Jeremy Beilinson and his colleagues have done,
6:03
Speaker 4: one of the reasons that so many people have been
6:05
Speaker 4: going through zoom fatigue is we sit still all day,
6:08
Speaker 4: we sit twice as close to the camera as we should,
6:11
Speaker 4: and we're flinching at these oversized virtual heads. We're not
6:14
Speaker 4: moving around, and then we're also trying to read these
6:17
Speaker 4: glitchy facial expressions in body language. And you know, I
6:21
Speaker 4: don't know that that necessarily causes complete burnout right where
6:25
Speaker 4: you're so depleted that you have nothing left to give,
6:27
Speaker 4: but it definitely makes you feel blah.
6:29
Speaker 1: Oh it's terrible. Yeah.
6:31
Speaker 2: At the same time, now we've not everyone, but we've
6:34
Speaker 2: begun moving, you know, back into the office. And you know,
6:37
Speaker 2: I can speak for us. In some cases it's like, no,
6:40
Speaker 2: you have to come back to work. So there's this
6:42
Speaker 2: love hate thing. I love being a home I love
6:44
Speaker 2: the flexibility. I hate zoom. I'm not as productive. I'm
6:47
Speaker 2: working all the time rather than some of the time.
6:49
Speaker 2: I don't get the twenty to forty five minute decompression
6:52
Speaker 2: driving home. But I don't want to come back to work.
6:55
Speaker 2: So you know, what do we do?
6:58
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just study this.
7:00
Speaker 1: Ye, thank you, good luck. Thanks for bugging with us today, Adam.
7:05
Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're obviously the individual.
7:07
Speaker 2: What are your suggestions as an employer who again, personally
7:10
Speaker 2: we're dealing with this At the same time, we want
7:12
Speaker 2: to be sensitive, you know, to all the new realities,
7:15
Speaker 2: but we don't want to contribute to languishing in the
7:18
Speaker 2: people that we employ and work with.
7:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the most important first step that an
7:23
Speaker 4: employer can take is to normalize the state of affairs,
7:27
Speaker 4: right to talk about it, and to give people the
7:29
Speaker 4: psychological safety to share what this experience has been like.
7:33
Speaker 4: The number of people that after I wrote this article,
7:35
Speaker 4: just said I sent an email to my boss. I
7:39
Speaker 4: just forwarded the article and said it me, this is
7:42
Speaker 4: what I'm experiencing. When people can open up about what
7:46
Speaker 4: they're going through, it's a lot easier to figure out, well,
7:48
Speaker 4: what are the causes for us, and how might we
7:50
Speaker 4: be able to solve this together. And we did an
7:52
Speaker 4: episode of my work Life podcast on this last summer
7:54
Speaker 4: where there was an incredible example of a manager who said,
7:57
Speaker 4: it's okay to call in sick. It's also okay to
8:00
Speaker 4: call in sad and andy. What I loved about that
8:03
Speaker 4: was not the idea that now you get five sad
8:06
Speaker 4: days a year, Yeah, use them up.
8:07
Speaker 3: By December, we're gonna take them away now.
8:09
Speaker 4: It was the message that mental health is part of health,
8:13
Speaker 4: and just as we would expect you to take care
8:15
Speaker 4: of yourself if you got COVID or you broke your leg,
8:18
Speaker 4: if you are languishing, if you're burned out, if you're
8:20
Speaker 4: feeling depressed or anxious, we want you to prioritize self care.
8:24
Speaker 3: And I think if that message is sent.
8:27
Speaker 4: People are a lot more likely to work together to
8:29
Speaker 4: figure out collective solutions to the problem. But the easiest
8:33
Speaker 4: way to send it is actually for leaders to talk
8:36
Speaker 4: about their own challenges right as a leader, for you
8:38
Speaker 4: to say, you know what, I'm.
8:39
Speaker 3: Kind of languishing right now.
8:40
Speaker 4: Is anybody else there to say I'm taking a mental
8:43
Speaker 4: health day or a recharge week, that signals to everybody
8:47
Speaker 4: else in your team that that's okay.
8:50
Speaker 2: For most people, I think it would be hard to
8:51
Speaker 2: call in and say I'm sad. I think people just
8:54
Speaker 2: lie and make up something else. But the point is,
8:56
Speaker 2: as an employer, I need to create those pathways or
8:59
Speaker 2: those on ramps and off ramps for people to be
9:02
Speaker 2: able to, you know, maintain their dignity and at the
9:04
Speaker 2: same time be able to take care of themselves when
9:07
Speaker 2: there's nothing physically wrong or they can't point to something specific,
9:09
Speaker 2: and not force them to have to make something up,
9:11
Speaker 2: especially maybe in the transition back into the office and
9:15
Speaker 2: you know, with all the other crazy stuff, So anything
9:18
Speaker 2: more specific on that, because when I watched the Ted
9:20
Speaker 2: talk and when I read your notes, I thought this
9:23
Speaker 2: is a real thing. But like you, looking through the
9:25
Speaker 2: Grittest Employer, I did find myself thinking this is real.
9:28
Speaker 1: We should do something. But I found myself languished.
9:32
Speaker 2: You know, I again, you know anything that's just top
9:35
Speaker 2: of mind that hasn't been proven that you would suggest
9:37
Speaker 2: we at least consider.
9:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there are a few things that are
9:40
Speaker 4: probably helpful. One is I love this research that Leslie
9:43
Speaker 4: Perlo did on blocking out quiet time and saying we're
9:47
Speaker 4: going to give you three mornings a week where there
9:49
Speaker 4: are no meetings and no interruptions so you can actually
9:52
Speaker 4: get things done right. If languishing is stagnation, progress gives
9:56
Speaker 4: you a sense of forward movement. But so many of
9:58
Speaker 4: us have been pulled into commitments all day because everyone's
10:01
Speaker 4: technically available all the time, that we feel like we're
10:04
Speaker 4: constantly behind, and at some point you're just I'm never
10:07
Speaker 4: going to get on top of my work.
10:09
Speaker 3: Why bother trying?
10:11
Speaker 4: So I think we need good boundaries that allow people
10:13
Speaker 4: to protect time, to find flow, to get into that
10:16
Speaker 4: zone of deep work where you can focus on a
10:18
Speaker 4: task and actually finish something that matters to you. One
10:22
Speaker 4: of the other organizational factors that we have a lot
10:24
Speaker 4: of control over is flexibility, and the flexibility conversation andy
10:29
Speaker 4: has mostly been about where are we going to work?
10:31
Speaker 4: But what people care about even more is when and
10:33
Speaker 4: how much.
10:33
Speaker 3: Am I going to work? Right?
10:34
Speaker 4: If people get the freedom to set their own schedules
10:37
Speaker 4: and priorities to say, actually, work may not be the
10:40
Speaker 4: most important thing in my life, but I'm still professional,
10:43
Speaker 4: I can be productive. I'm going to do a good job.
10:45
Speaker 4: Here are the ideal hours I would want to set,
10:47
Speaker 4: I think a huge opportunity. And frankly, we have now
10:51
Speaker 4: a growing body of evidence that in a four day
10:53
Speaker 4: work week, people can be just as productive, if not
10:56
Speaker 4: more productive, than they were in five days. Right, last
10:59
Speaker 4: time I checked, and you're the expert here, I have
11:01
Speaker 4: never read scripture that says man must work five days
11:06
Speaker 4: a week. Right, We know when rest is, but who
11:09
Speaker 4: said a job has to be forty hours or eight
11:12
Speaker 4: hour days? And my hope is that one of the
11:15
Speaker 4: silver linings of this pandemic is that people start to
11:18
Speaker 4: radically restructure what work looks like in our society.
11:22
Speaker 3: What do you think about that well.
11:23
Speaker 2: I think if we step back into a more agriculturally
11:27
Speaker 2: driven world, we have no idea how they survive, right,
11:32
Speaker 2: I mean, they could not have worked professionally as long
11:35
Speaker 2: as we work because they would have starved to death. Right,
11:37
Speaker 2: I mean just getting through life, you know, and then
11:41
Speaker 2: on top of that figuring out how to earn a wage.
11:43
Speaker 2: It's unimaginable to us. But in terms of rhythm, and
11:47
Speaker 2: I think this is one of the things we all
11:49
Speaker 2: agree on. Everybody has a rhythm, and not everybody's rhythm
11:52
Speaker 2: is the same. And when you can create an organization
11:54
Speaker 2: or organize organizationally to where people have the freedom to
11:57
Speaker 2: find their rhythm. And if you hire great people with
12:00
Speaker 2: strong work ethic that you're not having a check on.
12:02
Speaker 2: If you have to check on, I'm probably a bad
12:03
Speaker 2: hire to begin with, absolutely, because people's productive hours aren't
12:08
Speaker 2: the same. So and I think that's one of the
12:09
Speaker 2: great things about that the world we live in terms
12:12
Speaker 2: of technology is the.
12:13
Speaker 1: Potential for that is already there.
12:15
Speaker 2: It's just a matter I think for some of us,
12:17
Speaker 2: of changing our mindset about what work is and what
12:20
Speaker 2: work looks like. Now this is related and you can
12:23
Speaker 2: pass on this, and I think you alluded to this
12:25
Speaker 2: in the Ted talk. You've created your own way of
12:29
Speaker 2: allowing yourself to get into flow and not be distracted
12:31
Speaker 2: by social media because this is a I mean for me,
12:35
Speaker 2: I'm not pointing fingers.
12:36
Speaker 1: This is a huge distraction.
12:38
Speaker 2: And in order to stay and flow, it means I
12:41
Speaker 2: have shut off or shut down or separated myself from
12:45
Speaker 2: not only people, but the technology that competes for my flow.
12:48
Speaker 1: What personally, how do you manage that?
12:51
Speaker 4: My favorite habit is, along with my to do list,
12:54
Speaker 4: I have a to doult list, which is a list
12:56
Speaker 4: of rules I try not to break. And I say
12:59
Speaker 4: try because always moments when I slip.
13:01
Speaker 1: You're a parent, right exactly.
13:04
Speaker 4: But the social media rule is I do not scroll
13:07
Speaker 4: on social media unless there's literally nothing else I could
13:10
Speaker 4: be doing. That means I don't pick up my phone
13:12
Speaker 4: in bed at nighttime. It means that if I log in,
13:16
Speaker 4: I log into post and then I lug right out.
13:20
Speaker 2: So you literally log out of your social media accounts
13:23
Speaker 2: I do.
13:23
Speaker 3: I do.
13:24
Speaker 2: So that means you can remember your password though, so
13:27
Speaker 2: that eliminates that eliminates me.
13:29
Speaker 1: I think, right, yeah, well you can store it, right, No,
13:34
Speaker 1: but if I.
13:34
Speaker 2: Honestly, if I had to sign back in, I would
13:38
Speaker 2: pick up my phone, just set it down.
13:39
Speaker 1: I don't want to mess with that.
13:41
Speaker 4: It's an extra layer of fiction to tip the scales
13:44
Speaker 4: in the direction that's probably beneficial. But that I mean,
13:46
Speaker 4: it's it's such a simple step, right, But just saying, okay,
13:50
Speaker 4: you know, if I actually do want to learn something
13:52
Speaker 4: on social media because I follow people who challenge my thinking,
13:56
Speaker 4: or because I want to see the feedback on something
13:58
Speaker 4: I've posted, I will put that in my calendar.
14:00
Speaker 3: Is a task.
14:01
Speaker 4: Right, So instead of reading a chapter of a book today,
14:04
Speaker 4: I want to spend half an hour.
14:05
Speaker 3: You know, reading up on an issue on social media.
14:08
Speaker 3: That's it's current.
14:09
Speaker 4: That's now a learning task, right, as opposed to a
14:12
Speaker 4: distraction from what I'm trying to accomplish.
14:15
Speaker 2: That's fantastic. Hey, before we continue, as I mentioned at
14:18
Speaker 2: the top of the broadcast, our sponsor Blay is offering
14:21
Speaker 2: a free download of their latest book, Delegate to Elevate
14:25
Speaker 2: and Delegate to Elevate. You'll learn how to stop diluting
14:27
Speaker 2: your efforts by trusting your team with more responsibility. This,
14:31
Speaker 2: of course, will empower you to courageously focus on your
14:34
Speaker 2: strengths and delegate your weaknesses, something we talk about all
14:37
Speaker 2: the time on the podcast. And if you do that,
14:39
Speaker 2: of course you'll develop future leaders in the process. Just
14:42
Speaker 2: text the word Andy A and d y to five
14:45
Speaker 2: five one two three. That's Andy to five to five
14:47
Speaker 2: one two three for your free copy today, and you'll
14:51
Speaker 2: be back to doing what only you can do, which
14:53
Speaker 2: is growing your organization. The technology interruptions, and I say
14:57
Speaker 2: interruptions the technology that I interrupt myself with when it
15:02
Speaker 2: interferes with my flow, it causes me to experience languishing
15:07
Speaker 2: because I'm back and forth, and I'm back and forth,
15:09
Speaker 2: and I'm not as productive as I should be, and
15:11
Speaker 2: oh no, it's three thirty already, and it just exacerbates this.
15:15
Speaker 2: You know, even in a potentially productive day, it feels
15:18
Speaker 2: like languishing.
15:19
Speaker 4: And it's the I think you captured something really important there, Andy.
15:23
Speaker 4: There was data even pre pandemics, suggesting that that the
15:26
Speaker 4: average person was checking emails seventy four times a day
15:29
Speaker 4: across devices seventy four times.
15:31
Speaker 1: And they only have four emails.
15:33
Speaker 3: I mean, this is out of control.
15:36
Speaker 4: How do you ever get into a zone of dp
15:38
Speaker 4: plow where you can fully concentrate. I think some of
15:41
Speaker 4: the research I've read suggests that once you jolt yourself
15:44
Speaker 4: or get interrupted out of one of those states, it
15:46
Speaker 4: can often take ten or twenty minutes to get back
15:48
Speaker 4: into it. And so you've basically given up on the
15:51
Speaker 4: idea that you're ever going to fully focus on one thing,
15:53
Speaker 4: which is disastrous for creativity and productivity, and to your point,
15:57
Speaker 4: also is a great way to languish because you feel
15:59
Speaker 4: like I can't, I'm getting nothing done right, What's wrong
16:02
Speaker 4: with me?
16:03
Speaker 3: And it's not you.
16:04
Speaker 4: It's the fact that rapidly switching back and forth between
16:07
Speaker 4: two tests interferes with your ability to do both of them.
16:09
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because it dilutes purpose. And when I watched
16:12
Speaker 2: the Ted talk. When I first was exposed to this
16:15
Speaker 2: during the pandemic, I was extraordinarily busy and focused and
16:19
Speaker 2: we pivoted our whole organization. So it wasn't the typical
16:23
Speaker 2: pandemic experience, but I immediately identify with languishing in terms
16:28
Speaker 2: of my self imposed interruptions to flow. Again, it's the
16:33
Speaker 2: same experience, but in my case, I feel like sometimes
16:35
Speaker 2: it's self imposed.
16:37
Speaker 3: Again.
16:37
Speaker 1: I would encourage all of you to watch the Ted.
16:39
Speaker 2: Talk and again, as organizational leaders and as parents, now
16:43
Speaker 2: we have a word, and now we have a definition,
16:45
Speaker 2: which means we can identify it when it's happening to us.
16:48
Speaker 2: And when we hear our kids or the people on
16:51
Speaker 2: an organization begin to use some of this language, they
16:54
Speaker 2: don't have a word for it.
16:55
Speaker 1: Now we have a word for it as well.
16:57
Speaker 2: And if there's anything we can do to help people
16:59
Speaker 2: move beyond this and develop the disciplines to stay out
17:02
Speaker 2: of this, then that's a huge investment not only in
17:05
Speaker 2: them personally, but obviously in our organizations well, Adam, Unfortunately
17:08
Speaker 2: for me and our podcast audience, that is all the
17:11
Speaker 2: time we have today. Thank you so much for being here,
17:13
Speaker 2: and to all of our listeners, we want to thank
17:15
Speaker 2: you for joining us and invite you to check out
17:17
Speaker 2: Adam's work at Adam Grant dot net.
17:20
Speaker 1: That's Adam Grant dot net.
17:21
Speaker 2: And be sure to visit Andy Stanley dot com where
17:24
Speaker 2: you can download the Leadership Podcast application guide that includes
17:28
Speaker 2: a summary of our discussion today as well as questions
17:31
Speaker 2: for reflection or for group discussion, and join us next
17:34
Speaker 2: month on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.
17:36
Speaker 1: We will see you then