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What’s next for the Cubs after signing Matthew Boyd? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: If you're not just developing great starting pictures, you have
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: to go either trade for it or pay for it.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I'm Sahad Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We're your
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we have
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: a starting Picture edition for the Cubs. Early what was it,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Monday morning? I don't know what day were on now,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: early Monday morning, it was reported that Matthew Boyd had
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: signed with the Cubs two years, twenty nine million. I
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: think we kind of reported upper middle tiery, not upper
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: middle tier. This is more lower middle tiers.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, tier.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And this is certainly a quality piece in the sense
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: that Matthew Boyd has upside. Matthew Boyd doesn't have a
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: ton of innings on his arm, but that is because
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: of injury. But when he has pitched, he's pitched well,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: especially lately. Uh, you know, I don't think this is
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: This is kind of when when we started talking about
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: free agency. These are the types of moves I kind
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: of expected, right, like solid move, but nothing that's going
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: to blow the fan base away. Whether it's Matthew Boyd
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: or even a little better, more established pitcher like Nathan Valde.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: These types of names just aren't gonna blow the fan
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: base away, but they have a chance of paying off.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: And I think what I come away from this is
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the Cubs have a lot of starting pitching depth right now,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: even if they don't have even if they didn't add
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: like innings certainty. Yeah. Look, I mean.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Everyone loves Kyle Hendrix, but as a fifth starter this
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: past year, he was not reliable. He was not productive enough.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I think if you show up this area of your team,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: you're going to get better. And that's the whole point,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: right Like, it's not not a huge headliner. I think
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: this is where kind of teams are going. And it's
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: kind of interesting that Scott Boris reps a bunch of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: these pitchers who have all signed.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Kind of around Thanksgiving before the winter meetings.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: And I think for teams this is kind of the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: sweet spot, right of Like you don't have to go
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: too long in terms of years. You pay a little
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: more on an annual basis, but it doesn't kind of
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: crush your budget.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: There's still some, you know, room to do other stuff.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: And I think.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: You have Craig counsel running your team who is very
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: thoughtful about rest and recovery and how he deploys his
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: out getters. I was told Boyd is a fan of
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: council and that the Cubs did their usual sort of
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: sales pitch to him, you know, spring training in Arizona.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Playing in Chicago very attractive to him. And I was
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: actually there for his first game back in quite some
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: time with the Guardians, and he.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Shut down the Cubs offense in Cleveland that night.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: That was I think a kind of a rough three
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: game sweep in the middle of August. And yeah, I
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: think I do like the idea of upside though, right, Like,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: there is some risks, some uncertainty to it, but I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: don't know, if this guy clicks, it could be a
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: really interesting piece.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, you could be getting a guy on
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a lake career upswing, right, I mean, it's like getting
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: John Lackey before Uh where where did they sign him from?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: They signed him from Boston, So it would be those
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: years in Boston, right that, Like he had was it Cardinals.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Boston, Saint Louis, Chicago?
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I think? Okay, so that near the end of his career,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: but right after TJ. Is when he like kind of
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: had this renaissance John likey renaissance, right, so it would
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: be like this, it's before he gets super expensive. It's
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: before I mean this is expensive right for maybe what
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: was projected. But I think near the end of the season,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: people I started reading more about like, oh wait, Matthew
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Boyd's actually going to get a little bit more than
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: what was expected. And uh, you know, I think people
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: do see upside here. He's got two quality breaking balls.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: He doesn't throw hard. I saw someone post on Twitter,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I think Jamison dionn as the hardest average fastball in
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: the rotation currently. If you put if it's a sad
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: as the fifth starter, Granted there's three lefties in there,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: so automatically you're down a couple of ticks, right because
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: the average left he throws h doesn't throw as hard
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: as average righty. Uh, but that's just I think that's
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: interesting that Matthew Boyd's like a tick blow, like not
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: even a full tick book behind ty Own. They don't
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: have these overpowering starters at the moment. Uh. And but
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: he he gets out. He he does strike guys out.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: At least recently he's been striking guys out. I wonder
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: if you can get like two really quality years out
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: of him. I think the deal has a mutual option.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: We'll see how this plays out. He's in his thirties,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: it's not like he's young and upcoming. But sometimes post injury,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: when you really when you're fully healthy and you had
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: the major surgery, you have a couple of years of
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: a renaissance. We'll see if it's that or if he's
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: you know, it's snake bitten and continues to get injured
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: and this is just a you know, a sunk costs. Well,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: we'll see which direction it goes. I do think he
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: has some upside and and that this is a potentially
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: impactful addition, Like he could certainly have the type of
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: season that James and Tyne had right. He could certainly
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: give them those types of quality innings, and I think
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: that's what they're looking for. I remember having a talk
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: with someone, uh maybe it was in October, about you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the need for starting pitching, and I was like, how
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: how much would you like to get someone that kind
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: of guarantees you one hundred and sixty innings? And he's like, yeah,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: that that'd be great. It's it's hard to find that
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: that type of consistency and also quality. Like you just,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: it's not easy to get those guys at a reasonable cost.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Clearly they're being a little cautious with how aggressive they're
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: they're they're going to be spending. But I do think
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: it's a good addition for that tier of pitcher, and uh,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: they needed someone to kind of solidify things. And like
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: you said, it's an upgrade over Kyle Hendricks. As much
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: as we respect Kyle Hendricks, just wasn't giving them enough.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And I think if he's healthy, it's an upgrade.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Boyd also comes with an excellent reputation as a clubhouse guy,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: someone who I imagine would click with tie On and
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: be willing to kind of mentor some of these younger pitchers.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was good enough to start in the ALCS,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: which is interesting. I'm also curious, like, do we think
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: he's gonna make thirty stars next year? Maybe not, but
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: from that slot, can you get thirty out of Boyd?
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And Ben Brown? And Hayden was an Esky Like, I
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: do think they're building a pretty deep and versatile staff.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see, We'll see what they do with
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the bullpen, right, like, well, we'll never know about the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: bullpen until maybe, like you know, July, but I think
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: you know, we saw the graphics we wrote it in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: our story, like that starting five you can roll out
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: with another kind of five your next five at Iowa
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: or adjacent in the bullpen.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: It looks pretty good.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, Max Freed would have come with durability questions.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Corbin Burns we reported a while ago, was just not
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a pitcher, not a price point that they were willing
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to pursue. They weren't in love with Blake Snell in
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: terms of some durability, consistency kind of concerns.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: And like this is kind of the going rate.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Like if you're not just developing great starting pitches all
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the time on your own, you have to.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Go either trade for it or pay for it.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: And I think we've seen, as we wrote, you know this,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: this market is kind of heating up. And they didn't
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: wait around until the middle of January to do something about.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: It, right, And and that code that brings about the
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: next logical question that I think fans were almost immediately asking.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I think I was wondering when when I woke up
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: and saw this news is this it for starting pitchers
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: for the cups. Uh. You know, I asked around and
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like they're going to be super aggressive
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: when it comes to adding specifically another starting pitcher. They
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: have depth, you name you name those names. There's also
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Brandon Bird Cell, Cad Horton. We're probably missing someone, right,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Jordan Wick's, Jordan Wick's, Ben Brown, Hayden wisen Eski, Uh,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Brandon bird Cell, Cad Horton. Uh, there's there's probably one more.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you if you want to
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: include Na Pearson as a potential starter, Uh, we'll see
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: with how they build him up in the off season.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: So you know, this is they they like their depth.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: It's a strength, right. So I don't think they're gonna
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: go crazy and go after that upper middle class tier
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: that we were talking about of Vivaldi and uh, you
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: know Kikuchi's now gone. Who was the other name? I mean,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Jack Flaherty is probably like the upper class right now.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: The way this market is playing out, it's going to
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: be like it's going to be hard to add someone
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: by a free agency. That's a certainty to the to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the rotation, right. But I do think they are looking
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to improve the team in any way that they can.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So is the focus starting pitching? I don't. I don't
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: think so. I don't think that's where there's zero zeroing
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: in on. I do think that we could see another
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: starting pitcher added if if the opportunity right, and that
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: there it sounds like they are aggressively exploring ways to
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: get better, but not just one avenue, not just like
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: we have to add a starting pitcher and aggressive with that.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: It's just they're being creative. They're thinking about different ways
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: and they're finding there. They're exploring any avenue they.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Can solving for wins as Yes, guy Craig Counsel would say,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: look forward to hearing.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: His thoughts at the Winter meetings next week.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: But I guess that Matthew Boyd is an out getter.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Yes exactly.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I mean I think when you talk about avenues, the
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: trade market has to be one of those possibilities, right, Yeah.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I think so, And we can just get to, you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: the next question, which is what's next? And I think
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think trade avenues are like something we're going to
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: have to dig into that We're going to hear a
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: lot of rumors about we said it right A trade
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: has to come this winter. It really feels like a
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: trade winter. It happened last winter too, you know, like
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: that's that was probably one of the bigger moves, right.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I think we're looking at where we're getting ready to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: see a bigger trade. If there's a big move, if
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: there's a big addition, I think that's where it's coming from.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think trading Cody Bellinger is less of a
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: thought exercise now and more of an active possibility. Like
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I guess everything is sort of fifty right, it'll happen
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: or it doesn't. But I do think the more this
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: has gone on in terms of what we're hearing, what
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: our colleagues are hearing, what our competitors are hearing of.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Just like so that they're looking to get rid of Bellinger,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: but that's a huge chunk of financial flexs that I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: think they'd like to get back in some way. The
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: problem is, obviously, this is a front office that's under
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: Next year they have to win.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: So you can't be getting back some a ball prospects
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and then hoping you hit all your free agent targets
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: with that leftover money. Who's gonna absorb all that money?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Or a significant portion of that money. That is also unclear.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Of course, the Yankees have had interest in Belager in
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the past. I think we could look to some of
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the teams that don't sign Juan Soto, and some of
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: them have shown interest in Bellinger in the past, such
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: as the Toronto Blue Jays. But do you think last
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: winter is instructive? You're right Sahadev in terms of who
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: saw the Michael Bush trade coming. The Paradist trade, while
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: did not work out exactly as the Cubs hoped, was
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: like a different sort of style of trading that we
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: had not seen in a while, even Pearson Pierson exactly.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: There is kind of a track record now of what
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: they could look to do. And I do think since
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the budget is not unlimited, because they have stocked up
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: on a lot of guys like Boyd, kind of giving
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: them more annually and maybe an extra year, but not
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: super long term or not absolute top of the market,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: all those pieces have now stacked up to where I
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: think we were talking about this off the air. I
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: think maybe Fangrafts or Roster Resource has them around what
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: like maybe two hundred million dollars in commitments for next year.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe. I just saw two hundred and one
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: million according to Roster Resource for that's your luxury tax.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So that would be forty million under the luxury tax threshold.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: You don't go into the season. So let's say let's
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: say that want to be under this year. We're not
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: certain about that, right, that's just kind of where we're at.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: That's probably a good bet, right, Yeah, Yeah, So let's
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: say that, Let's say they're aiming for two forty. That's
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: not where they're going to start the season. They don't
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: want to do that. They want to have some cushion
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: to add at the deadline if they're competitive, and so
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: so that puts them this is what we were talking
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: about a few episodes ago. Why why do they need
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: to move Cody Bellinger? They have all this room. They
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: have thirty million left right now, right essentially, let's say
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: if they want to keep like a ten million dollar
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: cushion to add at the deadline, let's say thirty five million.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: That's why, like they'd be done. Then if they signed
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Corbyn Burns, they'd be over. If they signed Juan Soto. Again,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they should have these restrictions. I'm
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: not saying like good for them that they that they're
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: being smart with their money. I'm just saying these are
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the reaction that they face, that this is what ownership
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: is saying, and this is what they're working with. So
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: it goes quickly, you know, even like someone like Anthony
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Santander like that would take up majority of your budget
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: right now, right So so they have to they have
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to consider that, and they have to figure out ways
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to be more flexible and maybe they like I think
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: this is where trades outside of Cody Bellinger come into play.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: They are they looking to move someone like Jordan Wicks aggressively?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. But if they can find a
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: deal where they get someone that's better that you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: wins in wins out right, Like how many conversations that
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: we had with like front office people where it's like
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: do you like this guy? Well, is he an upgrade over?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Like if he's two point seven wins and our guy
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: is two point two wins, we like this guy, you know.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: You know, it's it's very it's a very simple process
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: in their minds sometimes when it comes to that, like
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: what does he bring more value to our team? Like
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: how much are you paying him? And how many wins
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: does he bring you? Like these are these are the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: things that go through their minds. It's not always like,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: well we need position X. We It's no like, how
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: do we upgrade in any area possible? And I think
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: that's where what they're looking at right right now, a
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: more holistic approach to team building, and and I think
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: that I think it's frustrating sometimes to hear that, because
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: you want to hear sexy names and big free agents.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: But I think the reality is, like if they end
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: up winning games and find a way to do that,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: then then fans won't complain. So you know, get your
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: complaining out in the offseason if it leads to two
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: wins in the regular season. I guess, right, yeah, I
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: mean I'm also wondering too, like.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger is not a superstar, you know, certainly not
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: this budding superstar he was at the beginning of his career.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: But it's like a good player, right, and it's probably
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: only for one year and like, I don't know, one
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: year of that and then kind of pivoting off of
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: that versus five years for Santander, I don't know what
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: six years like the.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: To get an impactful.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Middle of the order player who can play up the
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: middle and play various positions around the field, It's hard
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to find, and it usually costs you a ton if
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: you don't develop it yourself, And so I have a
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: hard time kind of in theory. I get it, sure,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: trade Cody Bellinger and do all these amazing things, but
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: like then the reality of the season hits, and someone's
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: oblique and someone's hamstring hurts, and this player isn't doing
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: what he did last year. Like, I think it's a
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: nice insurance policy to have. But you're right about the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: kind of range of trades we're talking about here when
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: you have a front office doesn't think anyone's untouchable, certainly
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: limited by all the no trade clauses they gave out.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: But I don't know that cluster of prospects kind of
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: around the Triple A Iowa border should probably get rid
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of some of those, right, he'd probably turn those in
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: for major league pieces, and you could probably lump Wix
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: in that group as well.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's fair. I think you know
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: you don't want to dump anyone like James Toronto's is
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: a good prospect, does he have a path to the
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: major leagues with the cups, right, So you have to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: balance those two things of he's really good and talented
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: and some upside and it seems like he's developing in
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: various areas in a positive fashion, and you don't want
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: to but do you rarely see him as a future
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: piece to this team. But that doesn't mean you just
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: give him away, Like you have to find the right
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: trade and make sure you're getting good value for him.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: You don't want to undervalue your own prospects. And then suddenly,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: now you know, five years down the line, it's it's
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: people are complaining that you traded this guy. Right, So
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: we would never do that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: We would never bring up a trade that went wrong.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: So I'm curious to see how Like I think, the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: further the more we talk to people, the more we
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: get closer to the winter meetings, the more we get
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: closer to Jan Soto signing, ah, the more we're hearing
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: things about Cody Bellinger, Right, And I agree with you. You
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: don't just move, like what what are the following moves?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: What else happens? How do you build? What does this
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: roster look like? And we're talking after the you know,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: as we're entering spring training, whatever it may be, how
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: different does this roster look? And what what what are
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: the dominoes that fell after Cody Bellinger was moved? If
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: this happens, if he's moved, what what happens after that?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I think those are the questions you and I are
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: going to like be faced with and kind of are
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: going to try and understand over the next ten days.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: We leave for the Winter Meetings in less than a week.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Uh And I think that may be, at least from
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: our perspective from Cubs coverage, one of our biggest questions
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: that we need answers to right as far as like it,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: it kind of sets up everything like if you if
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: if you're moving him, and it seems like that's if
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: they're being aggressive about anything right now, that may be it.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Right once Wan Soto assigned, then like what's what's next?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: How do you how do you improve the team? Because
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: just getting rid of him certainly doesn't improve the team
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: right where we're talking about wins, adding wins, taking away wins, runs,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: all those things. Wins. Yeah. Yeah, So I literally had
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: a conversation with someone about that and I was like,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: oh God, I don't want to have to describe it
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: like that, but I guess this is how it works.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: So so I I do think that's that that is
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the biggest domino, and it until we have clarity there,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: it's really hard to figure out what direction they go
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and and I'm curious to see how creative they can get,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: like what is what is this move? What is? Because
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I want to I want to give them the benefit
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: of the doubt, not that they've earned it, but at
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: least with the results on the field the last five years.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: But when you keep bringing it up and it keeps
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: reminding me, like, Cody Bellinger's a good player. Players get hurt,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: He's versatile. Anybody gets hurt, he'd be like any of
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: that outfielders or Michael Bush or DH gets hurt. There's
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Cody Bellinger in to help the team and improve the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: team in some facets. Right, you don't, you don't take
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: this huge downgrade? Now what now? What happens if he's
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: if he's gone right and you're you're hit with injuries?
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a fascinating question and something that
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: that will hopefully get an answer to in the next month.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, our colleague Derek Lewandowski had me on his Pinstripes
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Territory show to talk about Bellinger, and I forget.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: His exact phrasing.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't totally steal his line, but he says, I'm like,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you know what, I like good baseball players like, call
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: me crazy. He said something like that, and I thought
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: that was a good way to think about it because
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: part of it with the Yankees, you know, we don't
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: follow them every day, but watching the World Series, reading
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the coverage, it was this idea of, you know, a
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: lack of fundamentals breakdown in the field on the basis,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: you know, an approach that was not that lacked certain
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: situational awareness.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: How do you think Cody Belcher brings a lot of
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: those things to the table.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that means it's worth thirty something
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: million dollars next season or not saying you give him
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a long term mega deal, But as a guy playing
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: for his next contract, I think it makes a lot
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: of sense to have a guy like that who's well rounded,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: who's well liked, who's highly motivated, and has a ton
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: of playoff experience. So whether it's Chicago, New York or
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: somewhere else, I just feel like until he's traded or not,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be something we're gonna be dealing
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: with kind of until we get to Mesa.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Right, and if it's New York, I mean that's the
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: type of place where he feast offensively. If he's pulling
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: the ball in the air, he's going to opt out
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: of that contract. I feel like he's gonna have as
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: long as he's healthy, like he'll he'll be fine, right, Sure,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: All right, Patrick, I think that's it for this episode.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Let's make sure to let the sorry, let's we'll be
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: back later this week with a special guest, right we have,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: We have a guest coming up on Thursday, I believe.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. Make sure to rate and
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: review and subscribe to the YouTube channel. We appreciate all
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: of you listening and subscribing to The Athletic, where Patrick
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: and I will be covering the Cubs all off season
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: long and trying to figure out what direction this team
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: is going and what moves they're going to be making.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. Everyone,