Latest / Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution / TfP 010. Leading with Authenticity and Vulnerability

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TfP 010. Leading with Authenticity and Vulnerability · Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution

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Lindsey Curley: In this episode, we
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discuss anxiety and depression,
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including personal experiences with suicide.
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If these topics are sensitive for you,
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please take care while listening.
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You can skip this episode or return to
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it when you're in a safe and supported space.
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FEMALE_1: Welcome to "Transforming, Tales
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of Business Evolution",
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where we delve into the dynamic world
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of business transformation.
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Each episode is designed for firms
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of any size and scale,
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exploring both innovative
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long-term planning and day-to-day
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operating practices that help
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organizations adapt to a changing landscape.
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Join us each month as we hear from leaders in
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the public accounting profession
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sharing their experiences
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of reshaping their business models and inspiring
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you to explore new ways to evolve your own organization.
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Let's dive into this month's conversation now.
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Lindsey Curley: Hi, everyone. I'm Lindsey Curley,
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Senior Manager of Firm Services at AICPA and CIMA.
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As we talk about transforming
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business models in the profession,
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I'd like to introduce Randy Crabtree,
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who's joining the podcast
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today to talk about mental health.
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This is a topic near and dear to both of us
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as we've both been personally affected. Welcome, Randy.
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Randy Crabtree: Lindsey, thank you so much. I really
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look forward to having a fun discussion with you today.
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Lindsey Curley: Me too.
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Before we get started with your story,
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could you tell us a little bit
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about yourself and your company?
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Randy Crabtree: Sure. We got three hours?
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Our current company, I'm a CPA.
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I've been in public accounting for a long time.
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Eighteen years ago,
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actually our 18 year
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anniversary is in a couple of weeks,
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I started a company called Tri-Merit.
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Tri-Merit is a specialty tax firm.
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We deal with credits and incentives,
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and it's been a real fun ride.
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I was a generalist before that,
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I had my accounting firm,
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started that in 1991 and ran that for about 15 years.
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Then in 2007, I started Tri-Merit,
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a real niche practice,
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and man, I didn't realize how fun
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specializing in a niche would be
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and it's been a real great ride. I've enjoyed it.
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Lindsey Curley: Well, let's start with your story.
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Eleven years ago, you experienced a life changing event.
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Can you walk us through what happened?
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Randy Crabtree: Yeah. I just said I've
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had a great time for 18 years.
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I had a struggle in the middle of that.
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It was 11 years ago and two months
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and 12 days ago
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because I'm looking at the calendar and counting.
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I had a stroke
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and actually the stroke was at our office.
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It was actually in the parking lot of our office
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and it was a very traumatic experience.
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It is something I would not wish on anybody.
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But I was super fortunate from
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a physical standpoint that I recovered very fast.
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There's no deficits physically
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that I have from that stroke.
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Probably within a month
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everything resolved from a physical standpoint.
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But four days after the first stroke,
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I had a second stroke, very small.
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First one was small, second one was very small.
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But that set me down
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this path of, well, this is my life now.
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I'm going to have strokes. I'm going to die.
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I'm going to be disabled.
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This is my mind playing tricks on me.
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I'm never going to see my kids grow up.
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I'm not going to see them graduate college.
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I'm never going to get the joy of grandkids.
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I get emotional when we talk about
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this and emotions are starting.
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This will happen multiple times today.
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It's actually something maybe
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we'll talk about too because vulnerability,
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I think is so important.
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I went down this mental struggle path
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after the stroke, physical.
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God forbid, anybody has a stroke, but if you did,
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you would want to be me from a physical standpoint,
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I think, because I recovered so fast.
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Mentally then, I allowed
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my mind to play tricks on myself,
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and for about four-and-half years,
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I went through panic attacks and
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at least one of my therapist diagnosed
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as PTSD and depression,
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which at the time I called,
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I was having this melancholy feeling.
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I didn't really know it was
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depression until after the fact,
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but dealing with depression.
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But that was extremely significant point in my life
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and it really got me to where I am
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today because once I came out of those struggles,
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I just saw how our profession
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self-induces stress on ourselves and burnout,
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which could turn into mental health issues.
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I became a champion
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for figuring out ways that we can avoid that.
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Lindsey Curley: Then after that event,
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that's when you felt the need to realign your work and
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your passions and that's when you
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stepped away from managing partner?
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Randy Crabtree: It is actually. Boy, that's
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a story that can go down
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a lot of different rabbit holes.
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But we'll probably touch on that as we go.
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I'll tell you what happened.
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When we started Tri-Merit in 2007,
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I was almost the self-appointed managing partner
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because I am a CPA.
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I came out of accounting. We were doing tax work.
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My partner was an engineer.
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I'm like, well, this is tax.
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I'm the managing partner, obviously.
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We all agreed to that.
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But when the stroke happened,
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some very positive things that came out of the stroke.
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But one, which I fought for a while,
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but what I looked at and said,
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I really can't continue this managing partner role,
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and if I really dig deeper,
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it is not something I'm passionate about.
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If I even dig deeper,
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it's not something I'm really that good at.
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It's just that again,
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I convinced myself that
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that was my role because I started the firm.
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That's where we can go down a lot of
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different rabbit holes on that because
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there's a lot of things to go into there.
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But it wasn't,
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I have to change, or I want to change.
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This has to be the way it is.
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It was like, this is not my role.
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I fought it mentally.
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But I knew the change had to happen,
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and once that change happened,
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that just opened a whole new world for me.
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There was all these significant moments
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that happen post stroke that
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have really brought me to this place that
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is not to spoil the end,
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but I'm in a beautiful place.
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I want everybody to get where I am
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because the stroke allowed me to
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re-evaluate everything that I was
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doing and managing partner role
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was not something I should have been doing.
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Lindsey Curley: You don't want to be thankful
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for a stroke,
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but it has changed your life for the better.
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As you know, seven years ago,
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we lost my 28-year-old sister, Jenny, to suicide.
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She struggled with anxiety,
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and we had no idea until we
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read the letters that she left us.
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When it happened, I remember telling my husband,
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"Gosh, I don't know anyone who's died by suicide."
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I've heard about it in the media,
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but I didn't know anyone personally affected.
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Then as a way to heal, we began working with
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the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention,
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and they do annual walks,
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and the walks require fundraising efforts.
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In order to fundraise,
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we needed to tell our story.
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Man, when we started telling our story,
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you wouldn't believe the number of people
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who contacted us with similar stories.
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"I struggle with anxiety or
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I lost my dad or my cousin to suicide."
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We've raised a bunch of money,
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but truly the best part about sharing
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our story was recognizing that we weren't alone.
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This was pre-pandemic.
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The pandemic was terrible in so many ways,
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but I think one benefit of the pandemic
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was the spotlight it put on mental health.
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During the pandemic, firms started contacting
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AICPA wanting mental health resources,
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and we created a host of resources to give
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firms the support they needed
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to start having these conversations.
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But even post pandemic,
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I feel like the topic still holds a stigma,
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especially among middle aged men.
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That's the largest demographic in the profession.
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What gave you the courage to start speaking
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out and what's been the
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response when you tell your story?
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Randy Crabtree: I'm so sorry what you went through,
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but I'm proud of the way
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you've turned that into something else
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and helping others because the help that you give,
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sharing your story has been I know for you so
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important and for me as well.
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From a courage standpoint,
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I don't look at it that way.
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I look at it like, I have a story to tell.
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I have something that I think
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will have a positive impact on
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others if they hear it and so
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I feel obligated to tell this.
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Is that an ego issue or something?
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Lindsey Curley: I feel the same way.
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Randy Crabtree: It was like,
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I see people who have struggled and
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I don't want anybody to ever struggle the way I did.
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Those four-and-half years of not constant,
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but up and down, today I'm good,
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no, today I'm melancholy again. Now tomorrow I'm good.
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The next day, I have a panic attack.
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Then the next day, I'm good,
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and then the next day,
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I get a little twinge in my head.
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I'm going to stroke, I'm about to die.
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It's just all this up and down.
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Once that ended, I dealt with burnout in accounting.
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When I sold my firm,
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I sold it in '06 because I built it way too tax heavy
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and I didn't see a solution
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of getting out of burnout other than selling my firm.
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There is solutions, and then I saw that after the fact.
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I'm like, I want to just go tell my story.
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I had some people encourage me to start telling
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my story because I would tell
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it in little pieces here and there,
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and people in the profession started encouraging me.
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From a courage standpoint, it was just
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more not obligation. That's not the right word.
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I didn't feel obligated to it,
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but I felt I really could have an impact.
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I sighed because I don't
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know if that's exactly how I looked at it.
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That's after the fact what it
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looks like I suppose to me now.
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But a couple of things that you said.
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One, couple responses, first to the funny ones,
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like, at this time, I'm 62-years-old.
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How does a 62-year-old guy talk about this stuff?
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You're a boomer.
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This isn't something you guys talk about.
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You're supposed to hide your feelings inside.
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I think just because of who I am,
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a 62-year-old boomer,
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White guy in the accounting profession,
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I think it surprises people that I talk about this.
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But hopefully, it gives people, as you said,
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courage or at least the reality,
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then feel the need that they should share.
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The more I've done this now, I feel
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like I'm going rabbit holes again.
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Man, I love talking about this stuff.
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The more I started doing it,
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the more like what you just said,
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people would come up to me afterwards,
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and they would say, Randy,
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I just thought this is the way I had to be.
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I just figured I got
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five more years in accounting and I just need to
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power through these next five years
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and maybe everything will be better then.
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I've had people tell me that they just
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realized that they don't have to be this way,
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that this chronic stress, this burnout,
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this mental illness, people
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come up to me and say,
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I've been dealing with depression.
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I just figured it had to be this way,
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and they'll say, I'm going to make a change.
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Usually it's at conference.
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When I get home from this conference,
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I'm going to go find a therapist
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and I'm going to start talking to
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somebody and you've given me the permission.
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I was going to say courage,
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but we said courage multiple times.
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I like permission much better.
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The permission to do that.
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Do you know how many times I've
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left these presentations just crying
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my eyes out because I'm so happy that
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somebody feels like they can
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make a change in their life?
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That's the most rewarding thing to me
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and I probably have cried
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at more accounting conferences,
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I'm guessing than anybody else out there.
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But it's also therapy for me, too, I think.
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Lindsey Curley: I feel the same way. I never
12:50
felt courageous for telling my story.
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It was more we felt like we had
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an obligation to save
12:57
other families from dealing
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with the grief that we dealt with,
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and it was so sudden.
13:03
We had no idea that Jenny was struggling.
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She obviously didn't feel
13:07
comfortable or safe sharing her struggles.
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We just want others who are struggling to be
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able to talk about that and for
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those that have lost people by suicide,
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because suicide itself has
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such a stigma associated
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with it that nobody talks about it.
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Also, typically, I didn't
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realize this until I lost Jenny,
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but they typically don't
13:27
have obituaries and things like that.
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It's like you can't
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find the data and you don't hear about.
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It's really hidden when somebody
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passed away in that way.
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If we can help one person,
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then we feel happier with sharing what we went through.
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Randy Crabtree: Can I talk about that for a minute?
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I may be going off script here,
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but I don't think we have a script.
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Lindsey Curley: No you're good. We have no script.
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Randy Crabtree: Exactly. That's what prompted me,
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encouraged me to find help because I started thinking,
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what if my brain tells me I shouldn't be alive anymore?
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What if that's where I go?
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That was the most scary thing for me.
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At least I was fortunate that
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I was able to share what I was going through with
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people and a lot of times
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people don't feel comfortable to share.
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Like you said, there's a stigma.
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I was at least
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comfortable telling my wife what
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was happening with me and what was going on.
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I think just talking like that,
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me talking made it okay for me to say, I need help.
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It can't just be me.
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When those thoughts started getting
14:40
darker and darker and I
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never got to the point where I
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felt that suicide was a solution,
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but I was afraid my mind
14:49
was going to tell me suicide was a solution.
14:52
That's where I decided I have to go see a therapist.
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I have to go talk to somebody.
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I have to find out why my brain is this way.
15:02
For the longest time, I thought,
15:03
well, it's just post-stroke.
15:04
My brain rewired now and this is
15:06
the way I am and I'm going to put up with it,
15:08
and I finally realized it doesn't have to be that way.
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I don't have to put up with this.
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At least I can see if there's
15:14
a different way, and so I did that.
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The reason I want to talk about that
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because the stigma there and
15:21
seeing a therapist and still, I've got to hide this.
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I can't tell anybody that
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I'm going to go talk to somebody.
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I can't show a sign of weakness that
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I don't have all the answers and the solutions myself.
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But what I want to point out there
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in addition to it's not a sign of weakness.
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You're not showing that you can't deal with something.
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You're being vulnerable, which I think is
15:44
important and you are helping
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others honestly by doing
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that because they're seeing that something's going on.
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But for me,
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the first therapist wasn't the right fit,
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doesn't mean I shut it down.
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It was just like she was a great person
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and this is a funny story,
16:02
I guess, for accountants.
16:04
Pretty quick into our conversations,
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the whole theme of our discussion was, well,
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Randy, you really can't control what's going to happen,
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so don't worry about it because you're not in control.
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In my mind, I go, I'm a CPA.
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This is what I do. I help everybody.
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I have the answers, I control things for everybody else,
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so you're telling me I'm not.
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She was right, but I wasn't ready to hear that yet,
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and so then I went to a couple
16:33
more therapists and finally,
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the third one did things a little different,
16:37
but I think the theme was the same.
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It's just, hey, look how
16:41
good you have it. This is what I remember.
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We started just talking about my family.
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We started talking about the things that I love doing.
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It just got me going in this different mindset.
16:52
She had this mojo and within four sessions,
16:58
I went home one day,
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I think it was the same day as
17:02
a session and I'm sitting in
17:04
my melancholy place because
17:06
for some reason that was kicking in again,
17:08
which happened to just be in
17:10
our master bathroom and around the bathtub,
17:14
and I just had this aha moment.
17:18
You got to take control back, Randy.
17:20
You can't let these thoughts control you.
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I stood up and I looked in the mirror,
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and I'm not a swearer and I'm
17:27
not going to swear right now.
17:28
I swore then.
17:30
I looked in the mirror and I looked at my head.
17:33
Basically, I was looking at my eyes,
17:35
right through my eyes
17:36
and I'm looking and then I said, F you,
17:37
you're not real, get out of my head,
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I am not listening to you anymore. I was mad.
17:42
I was pissed off and I was just chanting
17:44
this and I'm pointing at myself,
17:46
F you, you're not real, get out of my head.
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I'm not listening to you anymore.
17:51
It sounds like it was this,
17:53
wow, immediate change transformation.
17:56
No, it was four-and-a-half years to get to that point,
17:58
but at that moment in time,
18:00
it felt like an immediate change to me.
18:03
I got my life back now. This is it.
18:05
I'm done with this.
18:06
I'm not going to take this anymore.
18:08
I'm going to take control back.
18:10
In that moment of time,
18:13
I've had seconds since
18:16
then of my mind trying to wander a little and then boom,
18:19
F you, and I'm back.
18:21
It's been, I think,
18:23
well over a year before even I've had a second
18:25
where I thought my mind was going to change.
18:28
I just really hijacked this podcast and went in
18:33
a different way but I thought it fit well what we're
18:36
talking about because the suicide
18:38
and that's what scared me the most.
18:39
But I am lucky from the standpoint that it wasn't
18:43
chemical imbalances and that I know is
18:46
an issue and I'm not
18:47
a doctor and I don't know that but for me,
18:49
I was able to just reset the way I thought,
18:53
and it took an
18:56
instantaneous change in four-and-a-half years
18:58
but that was the moment of time where I've gone
19:01
down this path that I love
19:03
in every day of everything I do now.
19:06
Lindsey Curley: I'm glad you took a soft script because I
19:09
think the therapy part is important,
19:11
especially the fact that you didn't have
19:13
the right fit when you first met with someone.
19:15
I think people hear about therapy,
19:17
they try it, they meet someone,
19:18
it's not a good fit, and then they write it off.
19:21
I had similar experience after Jenny passed.
19:24
I went to therapy,
19:25
and I've been on and off even before she
19:27
passed but I didn't have
19:29
the right person and then finding
19:31
the right person to talk
19:32
through that, and I don't know why,
19:34
but I was deeply afraid of anxiety being hereditary,
19:39
and for whatever reason,
19:41
I was terrified that my children would be
19:44
suicidal because I was
19:48
developing anxiety just thinking
19:50
about that and that I would have to go through it again.
19:52
Just talking through that with,
19:53
not the first person, the second therapist,
19:55
but I do think therapy is wildly important,
19:58
and it's so easy to access.
20:00
It's never been easier to access than it is now.
20:03
Like, you don't have to go
20:04
sit on the couch in the quiet room,
20:07
you can literally do it in your home on the computer.
20:11
I hope people really take advantage
20:13
of all those offerings that they need it.
20:15
Randy Crabtree: No, that's a good point, for sure,
20:18
and share your story.
20:21
Lindsey Curley: We're in a time where
20:23
attracting and retaining
20:24
talent is a challenge within the profession,
20:27
and what role does this authentic leadership and
20:31
vulnerability play in shaping
20:33
the workplace that today's professionals are seeking?
20:36
Randy Crabtree: I love what you
20:37
said with vulnerability too,
20:39
because when I did this whole journey,
20:42
post stroke, and I
20:45
said immediately I'm a post stroke survivor.
20:47
It took me a long time to say I'm
20:48
a mental illness survivor,
20:50
even after that four-and-a-half years.
20:52
But being a mental illness survivor too,
20:55
I looked at this whole journey and
20:56
the first thing that came to mind is,
20:58
I've got to go talk about
20:59
mental health awareness and burnout.
21:02
That I think is so important to
21:05
have that destigmatized within
21:07
an organization because there's
21:10
so many people that just ruggle through,
21:12
power through because they
21:14
don't want to show a sign of weakness.
21:16
They think it's a sign. I'm not saying it is.
21:18
They think that saying
21:20
that I am burnt out is a sign of weakness.
21:22
If I do that, if I say that,
21:24
I'm not going to get promoted.
21:25
It is that thinking
21:27
that needs to change and as you said,
21:29
I think the pandemic has
21:30
highlighted this more. I think it's helped.
21:33
But I went from there to them looking at
21:36
our organization and thinking, you know what?
21:39
I don't think we're really dealing with burnout people.
21:42
I think we've got
21:43
an open environment here where people will talk about
21:46
it and it doesn't happen and people
21:48
don't leave our organization,
21:50
and so then I started talking
21:52
about the importance of a people first culture.
21:58
It's when people are first, clients get serviced.
22:04
I hear too often, well,
22:05
we're a client-centric organization.
22:08
Clients come first,
22:09
and so when we do that, what do we do?
22:11
We basically tell our employees, you're not important.
22:13
The clients are important.
22:14
I'm simplifying this.
22:17
I started then promoting the people first culture and
22:20
how important that is
22:21
and I would use the trimeric story.
22:22
We don't have turnover.
22:23
We've been named one of the fastest
22:25
growing privately held companies
22:26
by Ink Magazine in the last three years.
22:28
All this positive thing that we've gone through,
22:32
and so I was on this
22:34
rampage? No, that's the wrong word.
22:39
This was the last two years
22:41
of me out speaking basically.
22:43
Then I started looking further.
22:44
I said, well, so why is that?
22:46
Why do we have this culture?
22:49
Then what you just said, vulnerability.
22:52
I think everything starts with
22:54
vulnerability because if the leadership is vulnerable,
22:58
then everybody feels comfortable to share,
23:02
to say anything that comes into their mind.
23:04
This is my new thing now going forward is I'm
23:08
going to be promoting
23:10
the importance of vulnerability and leadership,
23:12
but not just leadership and everybody,
23:14
but it has to start with leadership.
23:16
The fact that we are now as an industry
23:20
struggling with retaining or
23:23
attracting people into the organization.
23:26
I think this is an old term mindset
23:30
of accounting has to be this way,
23:33
tax season has to be this way.
23:35
We've always done it this way,
23:37
and accountants consistency is important,
23:40
but we have to realize
23:42
the consistency in the way we run our organizations,
23:45
and I know AICPA is doing a great job on
23:48
transforming the business model and
23:50
that I think that has to happen.
23:52
I think we have to look at this differently.
23:55
But it then starts with,
23:58
it's okay to share that you don't have all the answers.
24:02
It's okay to say that you're struggling with
24:06
something and we have to
24:09
destigmatize that from all aspects.
24:12
Well, actually, with two other people,
24:14
I did a survey for the profession.
24:16
We call it
24:16
the Accountants Professional Satisfaction Survey,
24:18
and I just released the key data from
24:21
last year's finding and we're starting
24:23
the new survey actually in a few weeks.
24:25
But in there, what we found is that
24:27
satisfaction levels in the profession sore
24:33
when not only are
24:35
there resources available if you're dealing
24:37
with burnout or mental health issues or
24:39
physical health issues or whatever,
24:42
just having it is not good enough.
24:46
Having it and destigmatizing it,
24:49
satisfaction levels went through the roof.
24:51
If you can just point to that and say,
24:54
we have a happier organization when we're able to be
24:58
open and vulnerable about what's going on
25:00
and have resources available.
25:03
I have almost the numbers off top of my head,
25:05
but I think it was 86%
25:08
of the people who responded to the survey
25:10
said they did not feel comfort in
25:12
their organization asking for help with burnout.
25:16
Eighty-six, organizations are at
25:19
a point where you can't
25:20
show that you're dealing with burnout.
25:22
That is just so backwards
25:24
because when we can show that we're
25:25
dealing with burnout everything turns around.
25:28
Organizations will thrive and grow and
25:30
that starts with vulnerability.
25:33
I've never had a problem with
25:35
being vulnerable and I think that we all
25:39
need to forget the uncomfortable side of that,
25:44
even though I don't think it should be.
25:46
Can I tell you a quick story? Again, I feel
25:49
like I'm really going too long here because you
25:52
got a lot to say too but I did
25:55
a presentation at the CPA firm a couple Januaries ago.
25:59
They asked me to come in and do a mental
26:00
health awareness pre-tax season.
26:03
It's a fairly large firm.
26:06
I finish my presentation.
26:08
A lot of it's my stroke story.
26:10
I cry during that,
26:11
the whole things we've talked about today.
26:14
Then at the end of the presentation,
26:15
the managing partner, a man in this situation,
26:17
he comes up and he thanks me and he starts
26:21
sharing the struggles that
26:23
his family is dealing with with depression.
26:26
He's crying and I'm crying and the audience is crying,
26:31
but that vulnerability in him sharing.
26:34
Now, I don't know what
26:36
the organization was like from that standpoint before,
26:38
but I honestly felt
26:39
this whole change in this organization,
26:41
like everybody in that audience
26:44
listening to him realized it's
26:47
okay for me to share if I'm struggling with
26:50
something because he was so
26:52
vulnerable and open about this.
26:54
Now obviously, it's terrible that
26:55
they're dealing with this depression,
26:57
but by him being vulnerable,
26:59
him being open about it, at least,
27:01
I think the family will be more open
27:03
to looking for help but the organization itself,
27:07
it felt like electricity in that room.
27:09
That is such a powerful moment
27:11
in my life when that happened,
27:13
and six months later,
27:14
I've got an email from
27:16
this managing partner and he told me,
27:19
just hey, Randy, I just want to thank you
27:20
again for the presentation you did.
27:22
It was so meaningful and so important.
27:25
Actually even before you came out,
27:28
I felt like I had to be in that presentation.
27:31
I just felt that
27:33
I needed to hear what you were going to say,
27:35
even though I didn't know what you're going to say,
27:37
and I want to let you know,
27:40
I get emotional again, two weeks ago I had a stroke.
27:45
Everything you told me,
27:47
everything you explained that
27:49
you went through and how you handled
27:50
that has already helped me so much and
27:53
I just appreciate that you did this for us,
27:56
our organization, and for me.
27:58
That's what we went talking about before.
28:00
Seeing one person have
28:02
a positive impact by what you feel vulnerable to share,
28:06
you don't know how many lives
28:07
that could potentially touch.
28:08
Lindsey Curley: It just humanizes people.
28:11
I think staff idolize
28:12
the managing partner or
28:14
replicate the lives that they lived,
28:16
and they're just humans too.
28:18
Being transparent, telling these stories,
28:20
also exhibiting like hey,
28:22
I'll be gone for an hour, I'm going to therapy.
28:24
That thing would just make it
28:27
more normal and accepted for everybody else to do it.
28:30
I mentioned the resources that
28:32
AICPA's PCPS section provides
28:35
to firms around mental health.
28:36
One of those resources is
28:38
the argument that mental health is a business
28:40
imperative and it affects
28:42
the bottom line because ultimately,
28:45
when an employee is struggling,
28:47
it's costing the firm money,
28:48
they're missing work, pretending
28:50
to work, or there's turnover,
28:52
like you said, and
28:53
the low turnover that you experience but
28:56
ultimately not addressing mental health
28:58
does cost firms money.
29:01
How do you think firms can balance
29:03
that pressure of performance,
29:04
which accounting firms have to perform and
29:06
do good work and abide by
29:08
all the standards and regulations but they
29:10
also need to support their people's well being?
29:13
I think it helps when we have a case
29:16
that directly impacts the bottom line.
29:18
Randy Crabtree: I've put that in
29:20
presentations in the past
29:21
because really the most important thing is the person,
29:24
but where comes, we're
29:26
running businesses. That's part of the problem.
29:28
Sometimes we don't realize we're running businesses,
29:30
but we're running businesses and we
29:32
want to know what the bottom line effect is going to be.
29:35
The numbers and again, I don't remember the numbers,
29:37
but mental health and burnout in
29:39
the industry costs us a billion dollars a year.
29:42
I don't know if that's the number,
29:44
but it's significant dollars.
29:46
When we add this as
29:48
a stigma and people
29:50
just think they have to power through it,
29:52
what burnout is is
29:53
basically completely backwards of what we want.
29:56
Burnout is somebody feels cynical about their job,
29:59
they're getting tired, they're just feeling negative.
30:03
I don't want to deal with that client.
30:05
They become less productive.
30:07
All of that right there tells you,
30:09
we need to do everything we can to avoid burnout.
30:12
We need to put things in place.
30:13
There's so many tricks that we
30:16
can do that we don't even
30:18
tell individuals and their firms that,
30:20
let's try this this way because we can be as
30:23
productive and even more
30:24
productive by putting less time in.
30:27
There's studies and it's simple.
30:28
It's almost common sense.
30:29
The more time you put in,
30:30
the less productive you become.
30:32
That's a no-brainer. I think everybody can
30:34
probably agree to that
30:35
and everybody's been through that.
30:36
If I'm in hour 12 of a day,
30:39
I'm going to be a lot less productive.
30:41
Some things that organizations can do, I think,
30:44
to keep the bottom line where it is,
30:46
but promote a healthy work life is simple.
30:50
Promote well-being during tax season.
30:52
I'm just picking tax season for now.
30:54
Rather than at lunch,
30:55
everybody getting hamburger and fries,
30:57
let's get a salad and
30:59
a healthy soup or something. Simple things.
31:01
Let's have the firm do that for everybody.
31:04
That little cost is going to be a positive.
31:06
Let's promote people taking
31:08
15-minute breaks twice a day
31:10
to go take a walk around the building.
31:12
If it's cold outside, do it inside.
31:14
Let's promote not eating at your desk.
31:16
Let's get away from your desk,
31:18
clear your mind because our body gets tired.
31:21
Well, it's our mind getting tired too.
31:24
Our mind, if we can just clear it for that 15 minutes,
31:29
we become so much more
31:31
refreshed and we come back and we're more productive.
31:34
Things like setting specific time
31:37
aside where you cannot be disturbed.
31:39
I think more people are doing this,
31:41
but I don't think enough are doing it.
31:43
If you can block out, let's say,
31:45
three hours, the morning,
31:46
I'm most productive in the morning.
31:48
I'm going to block out the morning.
31:49
I'm going to block out three hours.
31:50
There's no emails, there's
31:52
no text messages, my phone's off,
31:53
nobody can disturb me unless
31:55
obviously it's life-altering event that's happening.
31:59
You spend that time and
32:01
just concentrate on
32:02
this high brain power work that needs to get done.
32:05
In that three hours, you're going to
32:06
get more done in that time,
32:08
that non disturbed time than you are in
32:09
eight hours of reacting to
32:11
everything around you from
32:14
text messages to emails to phone calls.
32:17
Then after that,
32:19
that's where you can do your billing or you're
32:22
responding to emails or
32:23
your phone calls and that little simple
32:25
trick of just I think it's Michael Hyatt,
32:29
the free to focus or full focus system.
32:33
I know a Manji partner of a firm and
32:35
she put this into their firm.
32:38
Just that. The Michael Hyatt system,
32:40
the free to focus, full focus.
32:41
I'm getting the words right.
32:42
I think I have it. She did it for herself personally
32:47
and she went from 65 hours a
32:49
week during tax season to the first year,
32:52
55 hours a week, personally.
32:54
She just did it herself and
32:55
she was getting more work done.
32:57
It's not like this is an argument for not doing
33:00
billable hours too or at least billing correctly.
33:04
Don't worry. If you're more productive,
33:06
it doesn't mean you should make less on that project.
33:10
She dropped her hours significantly.
33:13
She did it the next year,
33:14
dropped again to 50.
33:16
She decided to put this in
33:17
place for the whole organization.
33:19
The last time I asked her about this
33:20
was about a year and a half ago.
33:21
But the first year that they
33:23
put in place for the whole organization,
33:24
the goal was 45 hours a week
33:26
during tax season per person.
33:29
I think they got to 46.5.
33:32
But the positive thing is it wasn't like okay, well,
33:35
we just put everything on extension,
33:36
we did everything later which I'm okay with that.
33:38
I have no problem with spreading out taxes.
33:41
I know some people do.
33:43
But for them is they got more work out the door in
33:46
less hours by putting the system in like this.
33:50
What that system basically saying is,
33:53
hey, we don't want you working crazy hours.
33:55
We know you can be more productive.
33:57
We want you to be at home with your family.
34:00
We want you to be there to see
34:02
your kids concerts and
34:04
sporting events and we want you to have a work life.
34:07
That simple little trick was
34:09
a huge transformation for that firm.
34:12
I've got more tricks, but
34:13
probably we can go into them if you want,
34:15
but there's another one that I love.
34:17
Lindsey Curley: Yeah, let's do a couple more.
34:19
Randy Crabtree: Just to expand on that 15 minute break
34:22
every day to take a walk.
34:24
I do that. Right before you and I got on this call,
34:26
my wife and I took a 15 minute walk with our dogs.
34:29
We do that at 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM.
34:32
It's on the calendar.
34:33
Both work from home. Well, I work on the road most of
34:36
the time but right now I am home and we have that.
34:39
Just schedule. That was one thing I want to point out.
34:42
But there's another thing is
34:44
and everybody will understand this,
34:46
work is hard to get out of your head.
34:49
People wake up at three in the morning
34:51
thinking about a client or what do I
34:52
need to do tomorrow or what's
34:54
that problem I'm trying to solve?
34:56
A friend of mine, Brian Kush,
34:58
told me about this three step process
35:01
of shutting down at the end of the day.
35:03
What this is is at
35:05
the end of every day, wherever you are,
35:08
you're at work, you're working at home,
35:10
you're in a hotel because
35:11
you're on the road, whatever it is.
35:12
At the end of the day,
35:14
bookmark your work. What were you working on?
35:17
Just be consistent.
35:18
Put it in a Word document,
35:19
tell Siri to remind you in the morning.
35:21
If you use an Apple or whatever, Google,
35:24
ask Google to tell you remind you in
35:25
the morning, but be consistent.
35:27
Number 2, have an instead of plan.
35:30
Instead of like my mind
35:33
play tricks on me after my stroke,
35:35
your mind will just wander to work.
35:38
I'll just happen, train
35:39
your brain to not think about work.
35:42
Instead of work when I get home or leave my office,
35:46
my instead of plan is,
35:47
I'm going to make dinner tonight.
35:48
I'm going to watch a movie tonight.
35:49
I'm going to read a book tonight. I'm going to
35:50
do a jigsaw puzzle.
35:52
I'm going to work out. You just have
35:54
this plan and it
35:55
obviously doesn't have to be the same every day.
35:58
Then the third thing you do,
36:00
three really simple things.
36:02
The third thing you do is you just
36:03
have a shutdown ritual.
36:05
Again, you're training your brain.
36:07
This is the end of the day.
36:08
I don't have to think about work anymore.
36:11
Close your computer, meditate for a minute,
36:14
say a prayer,
36:15
recite a poem, do a push up,
36:17
have a physical and mental shut down routine.
36:21
Now if you do this consistently,
36:24
you're training your brain again,
36:26
that work is over.
36:28
I am not going to have to think about this.
36:29
I don't have to worry.
36:31
I don't have to wake up at three in the morning
36:32
worrying about work because I've already
36:34
told my morning self the projects that I was working on.
36:38
I know when I walk into the office in the morning,
36:42
this is what I'm working on.
36:43
I'm not going to think about it anymore and I have now
36:46
a work life balance because I have
36:47
this plan that I'm going to do something instead.
36:50
I do this a little bit, but I don't
36:52
have the 3:00 AM wake ups and
36:54
I'm bragging because I
36:55
just don't let myself do that anymore.
36:57
I don't really do the routine but
36:59
I do it in bits and pieces.
37:02
Like I know we're
37:04
going to go for a hike after work today.
37:05
That's already my instead of plan.
37:07
I know that. We're taking the dogs about 10 minutes
37:10
away to a really cool forest preserve
37:11
and we're doing that after work.
37:13
I have that plan. I look forward to that.
37:15
It also gives you something to look forward to now too.
37:18
That three step process and when
37:21
I've told people about this and
37:22
some people already do something like this
37:24
and then some people have reached out to me and said,
37:26
I've been doing that and it's made
37:28
such a big difference in my mindset.
37:31
But in addition to that,
37:33
you got to shut off.
37:35
You got to shut off the texts, the emails.
37:37
You can't just get bored at
37:38
seven o'clock at night and pull up your email
37:40
like I'm just going to look and see if
37:42
anybody responded to that email. You have to shut down.
37:45
You have to be diligent about work is done.
37:48
Then to do that, you have to
37:49
set boundaries with your clients.
37:51
They know that you're
37:54
not going to respond in the evening, the weekends,
37:56
that if you send an email Saturday morning,
37:59
they're not going to hear back from you
38:01
until sometime Monday, that stuff.
38:03
I can keep going on this,
38:04
but there's so many things
38:05
that we can do different that we
38:07
just ignore because of the Sally method,
38:09
same as last year. Let's just keep going.
38:12
I'm in a big firm and I'm already
38:14
making 700 grand a year,
38:15
so why should I change?
38:16
Why should I make anything different?
38:18
Because look at the money that's coming in.
38:20
Well, you can make that money in
38:21
less time and have a better work life balance.
38:23
Lindsey Curley: Appreciate those tips
38:25
because we're knowledge workers.
38:26
We have to protect our minds,
38:29
and you can only do so much work in a day.
38:32
I think specifically boundaries
38:34
is something that I've gotten better with,
38:36
especially with three young kids.
38:38
I have to be able to block off
38:41
work and family or otherwise,
38:44
they don't get the attention that they deserve.
38:46
Frankly, neither does my job.
38:47
If I'm not able to segment and
38:50
prioritize and block that time,
38:52
then I'm not good at either thing so I would like to
38:56
be present and with my kids
38:58
when I'm with them and then likewise,
39:00
when I'm working, I want to be present and do as
39:02
well as I can when I'm working.
39:05
I know we could talk about this all day.
39:07
If there's one thing you wish you could
39:09
tell yourself before you experience
39:11
the stroke or to others who
39:13
are silently struggling, what would it be?
39:16
Randy Crabtree: The thing that I found
39:17
is I honestly don't wish I would have done it
39:19
sooner because I love where I am
39:22
right now and if this is the path I had to be on,
39:24
now, could it have been easier?
39:26
I would tell myself, follow your passion.
39:28
What do you like doing in your work?
39:31
Rather than just I'm a CPA,
39:33
I got to do everything.
39:34
No, let's find out what I really like in that.
39:38
Not to offend anybody. I'm not good at accounting,
39:41
just accounting in general, auditing.
39:43
It's also just not passion of mine.
39:45
If I'm not good at it because I don't
39:47
like debits and credits and that stuff,
39:49
I'm just saying it from that standpoint.
39:50
Tax. Tax excites me. I like that.
39:54
Inside tax then, there's so many different niches.
39:59
When I found a niche with inside tax,
40:01
that was just this unbelievable aha light bulb moment.
40:06
It just came to me.
40:08
I just got lucky and saw
40:10
that this opportunity was there.
40:12
I shouldn't say lucky. Opportunity is
40:14
in front of everybody all the time.
40:16
Sometimes people act on it,
40:18
sometimes people don't, you don't have to.
40:20
I'm one that has a hard time not acting on
40:23
something when I see that there's potentially something.
40:25
The thing I would tell myself or I would tell others.
40:29
I get questions like this and I
40:30
often say I wouldn't change anything.
40:32
Would I want to help others
40:34
make changes earlier in their career?
40:36
Yes, and find something you're passionate about.
40:39
Definitely, there's so many paths in accounting and tax.
40:43
There's going to be some.
40:44
Maybe it's an industry,
40:46
maybe you love trucking industry.
40:48
Well, start to concentrate on that.
40:50
Maybe you love auditing.
40:52
I don't, but maybe you love auditing.
40:55
Well, then just concentrate on.
40:57
But maybe it's not just auditing,
40:59
maybe you love auditing medical practices.
41:02
There, now that's something you're passionate about.
41:05
I have a little trick that I got from somebody
41:08
else and there's all different versions of this.
41:12
I would tell somebody early in their career,
41:14
make a list of everything that you currently do.
41:16
Make four columns to the right of that.
41:19
Love it, hate it, good at it, bad at it,
41:21
and just put a check mark in
41:23
one of those first two columns are second two columns.
41:25
When you find the thing that you
41:27
love it and you're good at it,
41:28
that's probably something you're passionate about.
41:30
See if there's a way that you can dial into that.
41:33
If you find a check in,
41:34
I hate it and I'm bad at it,
41:36
I guess my mom would say, you shouldn't use hate,
41:38
but in this case, I'm going to.
41:40
If you hate it and you're bad at it,
41:42
it's a pet peeve of mine.
41:44
When you go into review and somebody says,
41:46
hey, you really need to work on this.
41:48
This is a place you're struggling?
41:49
Well, it's a place I'm struggling because
41:51
I hate it and I'm bad at it.
41:53
Why don't we highlight the stuff I'm
41:55
good at and I love doing?
41:57
If you hate it, you're bad at it?
41:59
Well, that's something you shouldn't
42:00
be working on in my mind,
42:01
outsource it, delegate it,
42:03
automate it, have someone else in your organization.
42:05
If you're in a big organization
42:07
and you do this as an organization,
42:10
you know how many people are going
42:12
to be in the love it and good
42:13
at columns that you're bad at it and hate it?
42:15
Let's juggle those roles
42:18
and get them into the right person's hands.
42:20
Yes, follow your passion,
42:21
find things you like and figure
42:23
out a way that you can start to
42:25
concentrate on those areas because I
42:27
think I coined this phrase.
42:30
I looked on the Internet.
42:32
I didn't see any else anywhere,
42:33
but I feel like I live at the intersection,
42:36
my passion, my skill,
42:37
and I want to get everybody
42:39
to live at that intersection because it is
42:41
such a beautiful place to live
42:42
and I am so fortunate to be there.
42:45
Lindsey Curley: Yeah, that's great. What gives you
42:47
hope about the direction the profession is heading,
42:49
especially when it comes to
42:51
supporting people more holistically?
42:53
Randy Crabtree: One, as you said, post pandemic.
42:55
I think it's just more openness to share.
42:57
I think there's more people that
43:00
are willing to be vulnerable out there.
43:04
I'm starting to see and maybe it's just because where I
43:07
live and I'm optimistic all the time.
43:10
But I'm starting to see
43:12
some really cool younger people coming into
43:16
this profession with just passion for it.
43:20
It's funny I just read an article
43:21
just this last week that highlighted that.
43:24
That people are
43:24
coming in and seeing the opportunity within
43:27
the accounting profession to do what they love to do.
43:31
I'm always optimistic, but it's not just optimism.
43:35
I'm seeing change.
43:37
I don't know if you want me to say this,
43:39
but I host a conference called
43:40
Bridging the Gap and it's about changing the profession.
43:44
It's about how do we be better.
43:46
It really started with my post stroke journey,
43:49
the conference and the mental health
43:51
and physical health.
43:53
But the stories I hear at
43:54
that conference of people doing things
43:57
different and then sharing that with
43:59
others and then others leaving that conference and say,
44:02
I integrated what I heard in this session into
44:05
my practice and it made
44:07
such a difference and just a simple thing,
44:10
somebody who's on my advisory council,
44:13
Nancy McClellan actually, and I know
44:15
she's done work with AICPA in the past.
44:17
She said one of the most meaningful sessions for her was
44:21
Nia Carter Gray sharing how
44:23
she takes a vacation during tax season.
44:25
Most people don't even think about that.
44:27
She went through a step by
44:29
step process and how she does it.
44:32
Doing things like that,
44:33
seeing people integrate that,
44:35
seeing people realize I don't have to sit at
44:37
my desk 80 hours a week during tax season
44:40
that I can give myself
44:42
a break is something I'm seeing and I'm seeing
44:45
this grassroots level starting and I'm
44:48
actually seeing that I live in two communities.
44:51
I live in the startup younger owned firm and I
44:54
live in the top 400 firm community and I'm
44:58
seeing it trickle up the really cool things going from
45:01
the smaller firms and I'm seeing
45:03
the really cool process procedures,
45:04
all that KPIs trickle down to the smaller firms.
45:07
I'm really seeing a lot of integration
45:09
on really cool ideas happening and it makes me
45:12
really excited because I think
45:13
this profession is super important,
45:17
but I'm also seeing the
45:19
happiness scale go up in
45:21
this profession and that's what makes me optimistic.
45:23
Lindsey Curley: Yeah, that's great. Is there
45:25
anything I didn't ask?
45:26
Randy Crabtree: Boy, that's
45:27
a great question that we went through.
45:29
I went through a lot of tangents there,
45:31
so I probably covered anything you didn't ask.
45:34
The one thing that I was thinking of saying earlier is
45:38
that whole setting the boundaries
45:42
and how important that is,
45:44
that I've seen a lot with
45:45
more of the younger firms I think.
45:47
I don't know why I'm generalizing that way,
45:49
but I've seen it more at that level.
45:52
It goes back to a CPA mindset is
45:56
that everybody out there has
45:58
a problem and we have
45:59
the solutions and we need to help them.
46:01
I think we just have to realize we cannot help
46:04
everybody and if we can
46:06
find that niche that needs our help,
46:09
we're going to be happier and they're
46:10
going to be more well served.
46:12
If we can really concentrate on that,
46:14
I think we're going to enjoy what we're doing.
46:17
Lindsey Curley: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Randy,
46:19
for your time and your vulnerability and transparency.
46:22
[MUSIC] I know sharing your story
46:24
will inspire others, will probably
46:26
save others the professions
46:28
better because you're in it, so thank you.
46:30
Randy Crabtree: Well, it right back
46:32
at you because the things you're doing are
46:33
amazing and really am honored
46:36
to be able to sit down and
46:37
talk about that with you today.
46:40
Lindsey Curley: If you like this podcast,
46:42
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46:44
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46:48
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46:51
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