Latest / Hallmark Mysteries & More / Inside Hallmark's Magical Movie Making: A Chat with Producer Mike Barbuto

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Inside Hallmark's Magical Movie Making: A Chat with Producer Mike Barbuto · Hallmark Mysteries & More

• 0:00
  Eric Rutin: This podcast was created by fans or fans and is not affiliated with or sponsored by Hallmark or the Hallmark Channel.
• 0:09
  Eric Rutin: Hello, I'm Eric and I'm Andrea and this is Hallmark Mysteries and More.
• 0:15
  Eric Rutin: All right, it's 2024 and we're kicking off the year with a brand new Hallmark Mystery True Justice, Family Ties.
• 0:23
  Eric Rutin: And, for something a little different, we have a producer on.
• 0:27
  Eric Rutin: We've never had a producer.
• 0:27
  Eric Rutin: We have Mike Barbuto.
• 0:30
  Eric Rutin: How are you doing, Mike?
• 0:31
  Eric Rutin: Hello?
• 0:33
  Michael Barbuto: I'm doing well, Eric.
• 0:33
  Michael Barbuto: How are you doing?
• 0:34
  Eric Rutin: I'm doing absolutely fantastic.
• 0:35
  Eric Rutin: This is really exciting to talk to you because we have being Hallmark fans, we have, like all of our little notions of how things happen, but of course we have no idea really how they happen.
• 0:49
  Eric Rutin: I've talked to you, know enough actors and some of the other people with a little behind the scenes and so they've given me a little more glimpse into the business of Hallmark.
• 0:58
  Eric Rutin: Because as fans, we think you know, why aren't you just doing what we love and this and the other, and don't really understand the economics and the other things that are involved in a movie?
• 1:08
  Eric Rutin: And while we're not going to do too much time on that, because it may be a little boring but obviously important, we're going to really try to talk more about how a movie goes from like a notion to actually getting on screen.
• 1:22
  Eric Rutin: So right, right, but first things first.
• 1:26
  Eric Rutin: Like I said, we have our idea of what a producer is.
• 1:28
  Eric Rutin: But I've seen I don't know if you saw it, I don't know if it was on Netflix or what but the offer which showed the guy who's the producer making the Godfather, and you know he had to deal with mafia and union leaders and stuff like that.
• 1:44
  Eric Rutin: I'm guessing to make a Hallmark movie don't quite have to deal with.
• 1:49
  Michael Barbuto: you know, the Italian mafia blowing up people, Not, not as much.
• 1:53
  Michael Barbuto: No, you'd be surprised I've done.
• 1:57
  Michael Barbuto: Oh gosh, 10 plus movies now for Hallmark and yeah, I know have not have not run into any organized crime syndicates or families as of yet.
• 2:06
  Eric Rutin: So other other than in on screen with your, never catch me if you cause.
• 2:10
  Eric Rutin: But that's a whole nother.
• 2:11
  Eric Rutin: All right, so can you just tell us what actually a producer does and all that?
• 2:19
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, so I'll focus specifically on like TV movies, like a Hallmark movie, let's say so.
• 2:25
  Michael Barbuto: There's really two facets of the job.
• 2:27
  Michael Barbuto: One is developing the idea, as you had mentioned, eric.
• 2:31
  Michael Barbuto: You know how you have what does that process right when you have the initial conception, which sometimes is as simple as a paragraph.
• 2:40
  Michael Barbuto: You know an idea, a conceit for a story, and then it's our job as the producer or the development executive to take that idea, that seed, and expand it into either like a one page pitch or something that gives an overview of what the world would be with the characters would be.
• 2:58
  Michael Barbuto: You know what the story, the conflict is, what they're, they're coming back together, the resolution, after what we call like an all is lost kind of moment, and really kind of wrapping it up as succinctly as possible to give the network in this case Hallmark an idea of this is what we think the movie should be right.
• 3:13
  Michael Barbuto: And then, if we're lucky enough to have them want to set that up and put it into development, then we as the producer find a writer, we set a kickoff call with the network to kind of go through the ins and outs, what they would like to see, some of the things that they want to stay away from.
• 3:30
  Michael Barbuto: And then, really, from there you develop the story and you flesh out that one page pitch that we originally would go with into a treatment or like a synopsis of what the movie would be, that we call an outline.
• 3:43
  Michael Barbuto: That's usually about 10 pages.
• 3:44
  Michael Barbuto: Then, once the network signs off on that, you work with the writer to develop the script and then, with any luck, you do, the script is in good shape and we get a green lit and then it.
• 3:56
  Michael Barbuto: So then your, your development stage, I guess you could say, is done.
• 4:00
  Michael Barbuto: Then you enter into the pre production and principal photography production.
• 4:05
  Michael Barbuto: And that's to me, that's, that's where my love for this, really my first love, is.
• 4:09
  Michael Barbuto: That is, being on set and you know, being in the trenches and making the movie, with the director, the production designer talking about you know the, the characters and that kind of thing with the actors.
• 4:19
  Michael Barbuto: Because the interesting thing is, you know we as the producer that take that initial concept and develop it all the way into the script which eventually gets shot.
• 4:28
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, really that process is usually about four months, five months, sometimes six, seven, eight months, right, and by the time you're shooting it and you're sitting down with the actors and you're sitting down with the director.
• 4:39
  Michael Barbuto: It's really the first time you're hearing what their thoughts are on, so it really becomes a collaborative effort.
• 4:44
  Michael Barbuto: You know, like I like to say that it's like like a relay race, where the baton goes from me and the writer to the director and the actors, and then it eventually goes on to the editor and then you're in the post production phase.
• 4:56
  Michael Barbuto: So then we as the producer oversee post production and make sure that the movie is cut to the specifications and like the preferences that the network has, until we ultimately deliver the movie to a network like Hallmark, and then they air it and that's pretty much in a nutshell, kind of you know all the stops that the movie.
• 5:16
  Eric Rutin: Okay, so that's.
• 5:16
  Eric Rutin: That's really interesting, because for me I always assumed it would be like essentially writers sending you scripts, which I guess it's.
• 5:27
  Eric Rutin: Maybe is it both ways, where sometimes you get scripts and then other times it's like you're just out at dinner you're like, whoa, this would be a great idea for a movie, and then you go find like I guess it goes both ways, huh.
• 5:38
  Michael Barbuto: It does, it does.
• 5:38
  Michael Barbuto: And to the latter, it actually drives my wife nuts because we will be out to dinner or we will be out doing something.
• 5:43
  Michael Barbuto: And I'll stop and kind of look at something and she'll be like you're getting an idea, aren't you?
• 5:46
  Michael Barbuto: And I'll be like, yeah, I just got to write it down.
• 5:48
  Michael Barbuto: Hold on one second, you know.
• 5:50
  Michael Barbuto: Then you come up with a concept.
• 5:51
  Michael Barbuto: That's kind of a cool thing and sometimes it works.
• 5:52
  Michael Barbuto: Sometimes it's, you know, you share it, you put it out there and everyone goes that's a horrible idea.
• 5:57
  Michael Barbuto: But yeah, a lot of the times we do get either those pitches, like I mentioned, from writers who you know sometimes it's new writers, sometimes it's writers that we work with all the time that say what do you think of this?
• 6:09
  Michael Barbuto: You know, because it's our job as the development executive to know, to have art year to the ground and know what the market is asking for, you know so then we'll say yeah, that's a cool idea, or you know, you know, hallmark already made one like that last year, so they might not be looking for something like that.
• 6:23
  Michael Barbuto: Or the mandate is now this and this kind of feels like you know what would have been popular a couple years ago.
• 6:30
  Michael Barbuto: So sometimes it's that other times the writers come to us with a finished script.
• 6:34
  Michael Barbuto: You know, in the case of the strike, you know, a lot of writers took that as an opportunity because they legally weren't allowed to work, you know, to polish old projects that they had, or just do freelance writing, right, right, pilots, right, you know, feature length scripts on spec and that kind of thing.
• 6:49
  Michael Barbuto: And then, once the strike was over and they were allowed out to share and we were allowed to, you know, resume the conversations with them, we were flooded with all these new wonderful scripts where it's like, okay, let's just take this in and see if we can sell this because this is fully formed and you know so sometimes that's a benefit, sometimes it's, you know, it's, it depends.
• 7:08
  Michael Barbuto: But yeah, really, the development process to answer, to make a long answer longer, it's really all.
• 7:16
  Michael Barbuto: All options are on the table, you know, and I mean like we see pretty much every scenario you can imagine.
• 7:23
  Eric Rutin: Okay, no, that's, that's pretty cool.
• 7:25
  Eric Rutin: Now I have to start doing my little scheming of how I can come up with an idea that I can pitch you and get a picture in the big screen.
• 7:34
  Michael Barbuto: We, we once sold a movie.
• 7:37
  Michael Barbuto: My boss, joel Rice, who's the executive producer at True Justice and you know he's been my career mentor for a long, long time he once sold an idea of mine based on the title.
• 7:48
  Michael Barbuto: That was it.
• 7:49
  Michael Barbuto: They just love the title.
• 7:50
  Michael Barbuto: What was it Kind of you're going to ask?
• 7:55
  Michael Barbuto: It was called a fair to remember, so it was about a yeah, an.
• 8:01
  Michael Barbuto: Uber driver who fell in love with the owner of an NBA basketball team and he thought she was somebody else and she couldn't come clean with.
• 8:07
  Michael Barbuto: Even though she kept trying, the universe kept blocking her from admitting who she actually was.
• 8:12
  Michael Barbuto: But yeah, it was kind of a take off from obviously an affair to remember.
• 8:16
  Michael Barbuto: I mean so just based on the title, I thought that was clever enough to put into development, so that was kind of cool.
• 8:22
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 8:22
  Eric Rutin: So we talked a little bit before we started recording that your beginning of your career was an acting.
• 8:30
  Eric Rutin: But then you since you do a little bit of acting still, but mostly you're really enjoying getting into producing.
• 8:36
  Eric Rutin: So what was it that said?
• 8:39
  Eric Rutin: You know what?
• 8:40
  Eric Rutin: I don't want to be in front of the camera as much I want to be, you know, going ahead and developing these ideas and stuff.
• 8:49
  Michael Barbuto: So it's a very good question.
• 8:50
  Michael Barbuto: I think I will.
• 8:53
  Michael Barbuto: First of all, I always had are you a control freak?
• 8:58
  Michael Barbuto: I am.
• 8:58
  Michael Barbuto: That's what I was trying to find a way of wording that.
• 9:01
  Michael Barbuto: But, yeah, total control freak.
• 9:03
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, man, I think, honestly, like even when I was acting and I was lucky enough to book a job and act, I was constantly always like looking beyond the camera into like video village or looking at the production design or, you know, trying to now.
• 9:16
  Michael Barbuto: At the time I knew nothing about producing.
• 9:19
  Michael Barbuto: You know, it's funny like looking back now, having done this for a number of years, when I think about what I thought I knew back then as just an actor when it came to producing.
• 9:29
  Michael Barbuto: Compared to now, it's almost laughable how I knew absolutely nothing.
• 9:33
  Michael Barbuto: But yeah, I just, it was always something that I was interested in.
• 9:36
  Michael Barbuto: I always wrote, you know, I was always writing different projects and, you know, trying to sell them.
• 9:42
  Michael Barbuto: If I book a job, and the producer that I mentioned, joel, he hired me as an actor probably eight or nine times and I think probably every time I was trying to pitch him an idea I had like either for a hallmark movie or, you know, a spec pilot or this kind of thing.
• 9:56
  Michael Barbuto: So then eventually he came to me I guess this was probably 2018, 2019 and said you know you kind of have an eye for this.
• 10:04
  Michael Barbuto: Is this something you would ever want to do full time?
• 10:06
  Michael Barbuto: You know production and development.
• 10:08
  Michael Barbuto: And I said, no, I'm an actor, you know it's.
• 10:10
  Michael Barbuto: I have no desire to do that full time.
• 10:12
  Michael Barbuto: I enjoy it, but at the same time, you know, I want to be an actor.
• 10:16
  Michael Barbuto: And then, you know, you eventually look in the mirror and you know you mentioned the offer.
• 10:20
  Michael Barbuto: You know I realized I'm not Miles Teller just yet.
• 10:24
  Michael Barbuto: You know, like the actor, so maybe it's not a bad idea to give this producer you know, I guess gig a fair shake.
• 10:32
  Michael Barbuto: So I made the transition.
• 10:34
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, I still act, as you said, once in a while, but I made the transition officially, probably in 2019, and have been doing it Just in time for COVID huh.
• 10:43
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, exactly, it's exactly.
• 10:44
  Michael Barbuto: Actually, the first movie I ever produced.
• 10:45
  Michael Barbuto: I produced other stuff outside of hallmark, but the first hallmark movie I produced the first two were during.
• 10:51
  Michael Barbuto: COVID.
• 10:52
  Michael Barbuto: I never really knew anything different.
• 10:54
  Michael Barbuto: So everyone you know used to ask me is that trickier?
• 10:57
  Michael Barbuto: You know like there's a lot of health and safety protocols, there's a lot of measures that you have to put into place, but because that role was new to me as far as producing, I had been on set, for, you know, thousands of hours as an actor but because that role as a producer was new to me, I didn't really know anything different, you know.
• 11:12
  Michael Barbuto: So it didn't come across as more challenging, let's say, than you know, a non COVID set, because it just that was the norm, you know so it kind of remind me a little bit of a story that I grew up playing lacrosse and whatever.
• 11:29
  Eric Rutin: I did it.
• 11:29
  Eric Rutin: And then out here and I'm in Arizona and I was like, oh boy, about 20, some years ago, lacrosse started becoming a thing.
• 11:39
  Eric Rutin: I'm like I'm going to coach and I'm like I know how, I know everything about lacrosse and I can.
• 11:45
  Eric Rutin: When you're talking about being an actor, you sit there and you have your world that you know.
• 11:50
  Eric Rutin: And I became a coach and I realized like I had so many responsibilities that it was just like I'm like wow, you know, I can just blew me away by how many different things I had to do and how little I actually knew about lacrosse because I had to learn you know what other positions did what, how to react to all different things.
• 12:09
  Eric Rutin: So I kind of likened it.
• 12:10
  Eric Rutin: Now, Obviously, that was coaching little junior junior high lacrosse, which what you're doing is bigger, complex, but maybe the same size egos.
• 12:21
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, I think the metaphor still is a good one, you know, and I hate to say I try very carefully like the way in which I word this because, like I said, I am an actor.
• 12:31
  Michael Barbuto: I have all the respect in the world for four actors.
• 12:33
  Michael Barbuto: I think it is an immensely difficult thing to do what they do and to do it well, and ultimately we have nothing if we don't have our performers in front of the camera.
• 12:44
  Michael Barbuto: So, but, but I will say like it's.
• 12:47
  Michael Barbuto: This is why I say like it's.
• 12:49
  Michael Barbuto: You got to be careful the way you were to when I was acting, it did myopic kind of you, like a one dimensional thing, and then once, all of a sudden, you start producing, it's like the world does this and it's like oh, wow.
• 13:02
  Michael Barbuto: And when I was on set just doing my thing, there's a whole host of problems happening all around me.
• 13:10
  Michael Barbuto: You know that a good producer is dealing with in troubleshooting and putting out a million different fires and that kind of thing, and I never knew that that was occurring and that usually meant that the producer was doing a good job.
• 13:21
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 13:21
  Michael Barbuto: So now that that's my role.
• 13:23
  Michael Barbuto: It's just, it's interesting, you know, to be in.
• 13:26
  Michael Barbuto: It's like a flip side to it, the sort of thing but I'll tell you man.
• 13:31
  Michael Barbuto: there are days when you know you are, the temple is putting out a bunch of different fires where I think, oh Christ, I wish I was just acting in the still One job, one job, yeah, yeah, but again an insanely difficult job.
• 13:45
  Michael Barbuto: You know it doesn't work unless they do it well.
• 13:47
  Michael Barbuto: So that's kind of the gig, right?
• 13:50
  Eric Rutin: Totally, totally agree.
• 13:50
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 13:52
  Eric Rutin: So, as a producer, what do you look for?
• 13:54
  Eric Rutin: What qualities are you looking for in projects that you're going to go ahead and try to pitch in?
• 14:01
  Eric Rutin: All that?
• 14:03
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, I think you know whether it's Hallmark or whether it's outside the scope of Hallmark any scripted content.
• 14:10
  Michael Barbuto: I'm very much now this is almost a cop out answer I'm very much drawn to something that I've never seen before, anything that's like, you know.
• 14:18
  Michael Barbuto: Okay, let's take Hallmark for a second, because with Hallmark their brand recognition is the best in the world.
• 14:22
  Michael Barbuto: You know, as a network they are so successful with their brand, you know.
• 14:27
  Michael Barbuto: You say I'm a Yellowstone fan.
• 14:29
  Michael Barbuto: You don't say I'm a Paramount Plus fan, you know.
• 14:32
  Michael Barbuto: But nobody says I'm a specific movie of Hallmark fan.
• 14:35
  Michael Barbuto: You always say I'm a Hallmark fan.
• 14:37
  Michael Barbuto: So the network is almost ahead of the title, the product that they produce, you know.
• 14:41
  Michael Barbuto: So because of that, they have a very specific brand and they're very, very good at marketing here, right?
• 14:47
  Michael Barbuto: So and I don't think it's what I find super creatively challenging and fulfilling is because of that you're not really supposed to reinvent the wheel.
• 14:55
  Michael Barbuto: You're not allowed to reinvent the wheel, but we can give it a rim that nobody's ever seen before, you know.
• 15:00
  Michael Barbuto: So, to answer your question, when you say, like, what excites me or what makes my eyebrow kind of raise when I get a new picture, I read a script or something it's, when it's in that vein, when it's towed the line kind of like a Catch Me If you Clause or it's a towed line of.
• 15:16
  Michael Barbuto: I know it's the Hallmark movie, but this is something nobody's ever done before.
• 15:20
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean, and that's kind of cool to me, because it's not a big city lawyer going to a small town anymore.
• 15:25
  Michael Barbuto: The network has changed.
• 15:26
  Michael Barbuto: That's not.
• 15:27
  Michael Barbuto: It's telling stories that are more reflective of who we are as a people, as a society, in 2023.
• 15:34
  Michael Barbuto: And I think that that's so monumentally important.
• 15:36
  Michael Barbuto: It can still be escapism, it can still be aspirational, it can still be feel good like comfort food.
• 15:41
  Michael Barbuto: You know, nobody tunes into Romeo and Juliet to see if they end up with somebody else.
• 15:44
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 15:45
  Michael Barbuto: You want that love story.
• 15:47
  Michael Barbuto: You want to see your leads come together, but at the same time, if we can tell a story and how they come together differently than the way anybody else has done it before, then that, to me, is what gets me super excited.
• 15:58
  Michael Barbuto: And what amazes me too, man, is that you think, okay, hallmark's made so many movies.
• 16:04
  Michael Barbuto: You know, like at some point it's got to be a finite amount of ideas like will you run out?
• 16:09
  Michael Barbuto: And it always impresses me the talent with these writers.
• 16:12
  Michael Barbuto: They come up with something and they'll send it to me and I'll be like oh man, I'm kind of jealous that I didn't think of that, you know, because it's different, it's new, it's cool.
• 16:22
  Eric Rutin: Well, I'll say that, ironically, I just today, over in my Hallmark movie reviewer, which focuses on the rom-coms, I just posted most innovative awards today and right before we got on our call, and that's what I said.
• 16:36
  Eric Rutin: This year Hallmark was there's that whole joke about.
• 16:41
  Eric Rutin: Oh, they have one plot for you know, five actors, one plot, kind of thing, and this year they completely shattered it.
• 16:49
  Eric Rutin: And once your Catch Me If you Clause was a great example of that.
• 16:53
  Eric Rutin: But some of the movies the Christmas on Cherry Lane I don't know if you saw that one with the three timelines going like Hallmark just delivered completely different movies.
• 17:06
  Eric Rutin: You know you still had some of your comfort food in there, which we all want, but just the whole level of different and innovative movies this year was just off the chart and it was fantastic and, like you said, it still, though, delivered all those components that you want.
• 17:20
  Eric Rutin: You know, at the end you feel good and all that.
• 17:23
  Eric Rutin: So, yeah, I hear you and it is interesting especially, like you say, if you live in that world of Hallmark to be able to get those fresh ideas, because you know, when you have the big city girl come into the small town thing of how to make that fresh.
• 17:36
  Eric Rutin: That can be a challenge.
• 17:37
  Eric Rutin: And obviously you brought in a Santa Claus, which a Santa Claus apprentice I guess he's not an apprentice.
• 17:43
  Eric Rutin: What was he taking over the family business, santa Claus?
• 17:47
  Eric Rutin: So that was pretty interesting.
• 17:48
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, the heir apparent played so exceptionally well by Luke, Luke McFarland too, he's just.
• 17:55
  Michael Barbuto: I can't say enough good things about that guy.
• 17:57
  Michael Barbuto: He's a genuinely wonderful human being, you know.
• 18:00
  Michael Barbuto: Good, good man, good father, phenomenal actor.
• 18:03
  Michael Barbuto: You know, he's got so much range and, honestly, like we, we had an excellent director on that one too.
• 18:09
  Michael Barbuto: So that helps a lot as far as giving time to the actors to play, and Italian Ricci as well as Luke, they're just, they're so smart with script analysis we would talk before every scene about, okay, how can we heighten this, how can we elevate this, what can we do to bring more to it?
• 18:24
  Michael Barbuto: You know, and his performance I mean we had so many different takes that were undulated, where he would go a little bit bigger and broader and over the top, and then one that was kind of down the middle and right in the pocket, and then one that was a little bit more subdued.
• 18:35
  Michael Barbuto: So when you have that level of freedom in the edit to kind of play with performance you know what I mean and go a little bigger here and a little smaller there, I think that really aids in what you were saying as far as you know, being able to push the envelope and go a little bit further.
• 18:49
  Michael Barbuto: You know like one of the things that made that movie so special is how different the performances were compared to your traditional Christmas movie.
• 18:56
  Eric Rutin: Totally, totally All right.
• 18:58
  Eric Rutin: So, speaking we were talking about, you know a little homework and you have some experience out there.
• 19:02
  Eric Rutin: So you know like working with Hallmark like working with Hallmark different than working with other companies that you're pitching your ideas to.
• 19:12
  Michael Barbuto: Well, I think, like I said, because they are so specific with their brand, you know what I mean.
• 19:17
  Michael Barbuto: I mean nobody knows what their audience wants more than the network.
• 19:21
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 19:21
  Michael Barbuto: So, the level of involvement right from the get go now, granted, I don't want to get too much into, like the insider baseball because, like you said, I think the majority of you know the listenership might find this kind of boring.
• 19:31
  Michael Barbuto: But there's different tiers, right.
• 19:33
  Michael Barbuto: So if you have what we call a licensed movie, you know it's very different than the network's involvement, versus if I made what we call an acquisition, which is, you know, as the independent studio or the independent producer, you know they sign off on an idea, I make it, I pay for it entirely, and the network involvement is much less, and then I deliver a finished product to them that they acquire, you know, and that's an acquisition where, as a licensed movie is, they grant us a license to make it for them, kind of thing.
• 20:02
  Michael Barbuto: And you know I'll kind of just leave it at that.
• 20:04
  Michael Barbuto: But the point is is the network involvement is pretty strong, you know, right from the get go, which I actually appreciate because the relationship that we have, the company that I work for.
• 20:14
  Michael Barbuto: The relationship that we have with the executives over at Hallmark is phenomenal and they're wonderful people and they're very, very smart in so far as, like I said, knowing having their thumb on the pulse of what their audience wants, you know, this year, specifically like take the Christmas movies they knew from last year doing movies like Hall out, the Holly, the first one, right, or three wise men and a baby, that as long as there's still a central romance, that's like the driver.
• 20:43
  Michael Barbuto: But we play a little bit with more of an ensemble cast, the comedy is a little bit broader, the stories are a little bit more outside the box.
• 20:49
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 20:50
  Michael Barbuto: Like it's those tended to do well.
• 20:53
  Michael Barbuto: So then this year they said, okay, let's push the envelope and let's do more of that, you know, and I think I honestly think this year's Christmas line for the countdown to Christmas was the best it's ever been, you know.
• 21:03
  Michael Barbuto: So, yeah, it's enjoyable.
• 21:05
  Michael Barbuto: I find it pretty gratifying working for a network like that.
• 21:09
  Michael Barbuto: That aid not only knows the brand so well, but B has a good synergistic relationship with us, both creatively and on the business front.
• 21:16
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 21:16
  Eric Rutin: So one of the things that Hallmark has been hanging their hat on that mostly, I think, around 2020, they obviously had a very big change of leadership over there, but it's the importance of diversity and representation right and you mentioned it earlier than you know being the world of where we're at now, in 2023-2024, when this actually airs.
• 21:36
  Eric Rutin: But, like, how, as a producer, how does that affect some of your decision makings, or is it sort of more down the road when it really comes into play?
• 21:48
  Michael Barbuto: Honestly, it doesn't affect us in a negative way at all, as far as, like, oh, we now have less business, or, you know, it dovetails very nicely with the mission statement that we as a company have.
• 21:59
  Michael Barbuto: So I work for a company called Muse Entertainment and our very missions, like our brand, is to tell stories for those that historically were never granted the gift of being the lead in their own project, you know, or the lead in their own movie or TV series, kind of thing.
• 22:18
  Michael Barbuto: We don't shy away from telling stories that are real, you know, but at the end of the day, we also want to make sure that they're inclusive, that it's reflective, like I said, of what society looks like today, you know, as opposed to creating this artificiality.
• 22:32
  Michael Barbuto: You know, and I mean it just and honestly, the celebration of diversity, I think, is such a cool thing in the holiday space I mean our company we did the first Kwanzaa Christmas movie a couple of years ago called Holiday Heritage.
• 22:47
  Michael Barbuto: The year before that we did the first Korean Christmas movie, you know, I produced one called, with Raymond Ablak and Catherine Hennikim that was called Boyfriends of Christmas Past.
• 22:59
  Michael Barbuto: That was the first Korean Christmas movie, you know what I mean.
• 23:02
  Michael Barbuto: Like this past year on the non-Christmas side, we did one that was an original that myself and a friend came up with a writer friend of mine called Never Too Late to Celebrate with Carlos and Alexa Panovega.
• 23:14
  Michael Barbuto: You know that was honestly I'm more proud of that one than you know.
• 23:19
  Michael Barbuto: Like that one's right up there.
• 23:20
  Michael Barbuto: For me that was, and I mean that one was all about a Latina woman turning 30 who was having a quinceanera because she never had one when she was 15.
• 23:29
  Michael Barbuto: So just to explore that world.
• 23:31
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean To me when you get to do projects like that.
• 23:35
  Michael Barbuto: So when I have a company that is super supportive of you know, myself and our team exploring, making movies like that, as well as a network that's open to it, where it's not, you know what was the reality for other places, you know, 10 years ago or whatever it's, like I said, it's insanely gratifying because it's right, in line with what we want to do and that's what they want to do.
• 23:59
  Michael Barbuto: So when you have that creative kind of synergy, it just makes life easier and it makes it fun to go to work, you know.
• 24:05
  Eric Rutin: Now do you get like a script or a story and you're working here.
• 24:07
  Eric Rutin: Oh, why don't we just transform these characters maybe from you know what they are into maybe being like a gay couple or, you know, trained into an ethnic thing and sort of manipulate it down the road, so to speak?
• 24:22
  Eric Rutin: Or is it usually written?
• 24:23
  Michael Barbuto: that way.
• 24:25
  Michael Barbuto: I personally, there are people that do do that.
• 24:30
  Michael Barbuto: I don't like to do that, because to me I always say that no one person is any one thing.
• 24:35
  Michael Barbuto: So to do the plug and play thing where it's like, oh, this was a cis white couple, you know what I mean, and like this is a hetero story, but we're going to now make them, you know this, so we're going to make them that, To me that story needs to be told with so much more genuine detail than just saying, well, here, take out the white guys and put in this whatever you know, X, you know it.
• 25:00
  Michael Barbuto: Just, it doesn't really work.
• 25:02
  Michael Barbuto: So whenever we do and we have stories like that in development with network and other, with Hallmark and other networks, other buyers, but to me I look as I tend to want to find stories like that that are from writers that are, you know, representative of whatever that, that culture or that cohort is, you know, and I mean, if we're telling an LGBTQ story, I don't want to come up with that on my own.
• 25:27
  Michael Barbuto: I want to find a writer who has a great story that he or she is LGBTQ, but at the same time, you know it's not a coming out story, it's not a story about being gay.
• 25:39
  Michael Barbuto: It's just a regular story where it just so happens that the leads are like that, because we don't need to comment on that anymore.
• 25:45
  Michael Barbuto: You know, same with if it's a different culture you know I don't want to tell a lunar New Year story and have a Chinese you know setting, if I'm the one coming up with that or I'm working with a white writer, I want to find a Chinese writer who knows the nuance of that culture, because that's when, that's when those things sparkle man, that's when you get people being like oh my God, that's so cool, I had no idea that that's what they did.
• 26:06
  Michael Barbuto: Because you have that, that genuine, you know touch from somebody who's lived it, who's breathed it, who's experienced it, you know so.
• 26:15
  Eric Rutin: So it's actually interesting.
• 26:15
  Eric Rutin: You may just think of the whole sort of progression of their diversity, because and the reason why I asked, if you go back a few years, it did seem like that's all they did was like, okay, we have a secondary character, we're going to make their relationship the best friend.
• 26:30
  Eric Rutin: Yeah, they're, they're gonna convert them.
• 26:32
  Eric Rutin: You know they're going to be this, whereas now, you do see, it's definitely more just part of the story, and we're going to get into talking to her a little bit in a second.
• 26:42
  Eric Rutin: But with Catherine, you know, she was groundbreaking because when she starred in Love Classified and they had that first female female kiss, it was like, oh my God, you know, the world exploded and I had some of the.
• 26:55
  Eric Rutin: The thing I was trying to tell everyone was that was just a love story.
• 26:59
  Eric Rutin: Right, it just happened to be two, two women who who have you know, came together and but it was just, it was mostly like about family and their love, and but it was like so much hubbub.
• 27:12
  Eric Rutin: And then now you fast forward and you just had the final movie of this countdown to Christmas was Friends and Family Christmas, which featured a lesbian relationship, and it was so funny, it was like almost a complete non factor, and so you just see the progression.
• 27:26
  Eric Rutin: That's about a year and a half of how it you know, the holiday sitter last year, Jonathan Bennett, which was, you know, so groundbreaking because it featured the first gay couple.
• 27:35
  Eric Rutin: But, you know, to be able to evolve to where, like you say, it's just sort of natural and it doesn't call attention to itself.
• 27:42
  Eric Rutin: I think it's been one of the biggest things.
• 27:44
  Eric Rutin: But it is like we said a second ago, it used to be at this pluck out that person and make the best friend or the, you know, the, the, the event planner or something like that, some side character that you could just get the token diversity in, and now it's very core to the stories.
• 28:02
  Michael Barbuto: So right, yeah, it's something we're very cognizant of, for sure, and I think it's look, it's.
• 28:08
  Michael Barbuto: It's slow moving, but we're going in the right direction, right.
• 28:11
  Eric Rutin: Right.
• 28:11
  Eric Rutin: That's because I also get some of the people who are wanting it to be like, oh, they're not diverse enough.
• 28:16
  Eric Rutin: I'm like, just go back a couple of years and you'll see.
• 28:19
  Eric Rutin: Like you said, it's, it's, it's the big ship turning right.
• 28:23
  Eric Rutin: They don't just make a right turn, so all right.
• 28:26
  Eric Rutin: So we you know, we talked about the uh, hatch Me a Few Claws and we're about to talk about true justice.
• 28:31
  Eric Rutin: So that's a little bit.
• 28:32
  Eric Rutin: You've got that romcom then.
• 28:33
  Eric Rutin: You're also a mystery.
• 28:34
  Eric Rutin: Do you have like a preference of the kind of story that?
• 28:38
  Eric Rutin: I know you said you like a unique one, but is there like sort of that more drama one, the Grillier or the Fluffy Romcom?
• 28:45
  Eric Rutin: Do you have, like this, the natural favorite?
• 28:48
  Michael Barbuto: God, these are good questions, eric.
• 28:49
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I love.
• 28:51
  Michael Barbuto: I love certain elements about all of them.
• 28:54
  Michael Barbuto: I will say that if I had to pick one like gun to head kind of thing you know you can only do this kind of movie for the rest of your career it would definitely be the mysteries.
• 29:06
  Michael Barbuto: I do enjoy those.
• 29:08
  Michael Barbuto: I think the opportunity to turn these movie wheels into a franchise and, you know, hopefully, you know, god willing, we're lucky enough to see true justice go on and, and you know, have many, many installments, that to me is the greatest fulfillment.
• 29:22
  Michael Barbuto: I think the biggest differentiation between a mystery, let's say, and a romcom isn't a romcom, right, if I've got my two leads and there's, I've got three scenes in a row of watching them fall in love.
• 29:35
  Michael Barbuto: You know, between like acts three and six, let's say, chances are when I'm in the edit, because you got to remember, these movies are 84 minutes long.
• 29:44
  Michael Barbuto: You know what?
• 29:44
  Michael Barbuto: I mean they're not.
• 29:45
  Michael Barbuto: They're not two hour features, they're.
• 29:46
  Michael Barbuto: They're TV movies.
• 29:47
  Michael Barbuto: So they got to be 84 minutes.
• 29:49
  Michael Barbuto: So if I'm watching, scene after scene after scene in a romcom that's character driven, not necessarily story driven, right Of two people falling in love, in the edit I could probably be like I don't need that scene.
• 29:59
  Michael Barbuto: I've got them walking in the park and then they they're buying ice cream together, then they have their almost kiss.
• 30:05
  Michael Barbuto: I don't need the ice cream scene.
• 30:06
  Michael Barbuto: I can just go from one to the other Like I'm.
• 30:08
  Michael Barbuto: It sounds like I'm oversimplifying it and I don't mean to make it sound trivial or whatever, but oftentimes that is the the the approach with the romcoms With a mystery, though, it's vastly different in the sense that those are story driven.
• 30:24
  Michael Barbuto: So if I all of a sudden have to cut that movie down and pluck out a scene, well now I might have just lost a crucial piece of information.
• 30:32
  Michael Barbuto: You know that I need, in a later scene, to tell that story, otherwise it becomes confusing and I think all too often look, you shoot these, you prep these things in three weeks, you shoot them in three weeks, you edit them in a couple of weeks.
• 30:43
  Michael Barbuto: You know, I've seen many from other networks where they do kind of fall flat on their face and they do get confusing, you know, and it's because nobody really did the work properly in the beginning with the script when you're developing it or in pre-production.
• 30:58
  Michael Barbuto: You know, that's something that we're very careful of.
• 31:00
  Michael Barbuto: So because that process requires such a careful overview, right when you're going through the development process and the script and being like, okay, if we keep this scene, we know we're going to be long, so we got to condense it and only keep the pertinent information, you know, and then that carries over into pre-production, that carries over into principal photography, as well as in post production when you're editing.
• 31:25
  Michael Barbuto: And because that process is a little bit more, you have to be hyper aware.
• 31:30
  Michael Barbuto: I find it more of an adrenaline rush, like I low key, like it better, and I also love, you know, just the excitement of like telling a murder mystery, you know, and I mean they can be cozy, but they can also be kind of edgy and different, and that's another thing too, talking about staying on brand but figuring out a way to give it a rim that nobody's seen.
• 31:45
  Michael Barbuto: Well, now, you know, on HMM, those mysteries, they want things that are a little bit younger and hipper and skew a little bit, you know, younger for the audience and that kind of thing.
• 31:54
  Michael Barbuto: So to create something that's not as cozy which don't get me wrong, I love them you know, like we stand on the shoulders of all those successful franchises.
• 32:01
  Michael Barbuto: But to be able to create something that's like, I don't know, a law and order meets 21 Jump Street, you know, that's that's fun, that's cool, you know.
• 32:12
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 32:12
  Eric Rutin: So you mentioned her a little before with Atali Rishi and I just want to say it's not a question, but she needs to be in a mystery because catch me a few claws was kind of a mystery.
• 32:22
  Eric Rutin: You know, it was a fun capery thing, it was kind of a mystery.
• 32:24
  Eric Rutin: But I was watching that, thinking she totally could be over on homework mysteries and just well, I'll tell you this about Atali.
• 32:35
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, she is, she is.
• 32:36
  Michael Barbuto: There's nothing that she can't do.
• 32:38
  Michael Barbuto: I would work with her for the rest of my life if I was lucky enough to you know if there was ever an opportunity to put her in a mystery on game you know I would do anything with her.
• 32:48
  Michael Barbuto: I would really produce a circus show with her if it meant she was the ringmaster you know what I mean.
• 32:54
  Michael Barbuto: Like she's, she's that good.
• 32:56
  Eric Rutin: All right, we're going to move into now the speed round of some questions.
• 33:01
  Eric Rutin: So the first one I ask, I ask everyone, and it's really pretty much a personality, it's, you know your character, it's a character question, but what's your opinion of pineapple on pizza?
• 33:13
  Eric Rutin: And the third one is about the I am Canadian Originally.
• 33:18
  Michael Barbuto: I'm from Toronto, so you'd be surprised how many people do the Hawaiian pizza thing out there.
• 33:22
  Michael Barbuto: I don't mind it, my wife loves it.
• 33:24
  Michael Barbuto: I'm Italian too, so a lot of people would say that that's sacrilege.
• 33:27
  Michael Barbuto: But behind closed doors I dig it.
• 33:29
  Michael Barbuto: In public I'll never admit to liking it.
• 33:32
  Eric Rutin: Alright.
• 33:32
  Eric Rutin: Well, I think you're a closet psycho, then.
• 33:34
  Eric Rutin: So actually, I grew up in Windsor, oh okay, I got my Canadian roots in me and I still worst thing ever, alright.
• 33:44
  Eric Rutin: But Matt Smith is a Canadian and he's the one who started this whole question by saying it's his favorite food, and I was just flabbergasted.
• 33:52
  Eric Rutin: So, alright, you just mentioned you're from Toronto, so are you a hockey fan?
• 33:59
  Michael Barbuto: Not anymore.
• 33:59
  Michael Barbuto: I've been out here in LA for over 20 years now, so I lost touch with the Maple Leafs which why anybody would not want to be disappointed year in and year out.
• 34:08
  Michael Barbuto: I don't know.
• 34:09
  Eric Rutin: Well, that was my question.
• 34:10
  Eric Rutin: Was what's more frustrating A movie that flops or the Maple Leafs annual flop in the playoffs?
• 34:18
  Michael Barbuto: Hands down, the Leafs Hands down.
• 34:20
  Michael Barbuto: I have to listen to my family say this is the year.
• 34:22
  Michael Barbuto: Every year, this is the year and every year.
• 34:24
  Michael Barbuto: It was only two years ago where I said to my wife I'm going to stop jumping on this bandwagon once the playoffs start, because it's the definition of insanity the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.
• 34:35
  Michael Barbuto: It's crazy.
• 34:37
  Eric Rutin: It is.
• 34:37
  Eric Rutin: It is.
• 34:37
  Eric Rutin: Fortunately.
• 34:38
  Eric Rutin: I'm a Red Wing fan, so I've enjoyed the happiness.
• 34:41
  Eric Rutin: Not lately, but there so okay.
• 34:45
  Eric Rutin: So you've got to.
• 34:48
  Eric Rutin: We've mentioned it before.
• 34:49
  Eric Rutin: You're an actor originally, but then you've evolved into a producer, so I'm going to do a two-part question.
• 34:55
  Eric Rutin: So, as a producer, what movie classic would you love to do a remake of?
• 35:02
  Michael Barbuto: Ooh, that is a very good question.
• 35:04
  Michael Barbuto: What movie classic would I like to do a remake of?
• 35:07
  Michael Barbuto: Okay, so, if we're talking Hallmark, I've always, always, always wanted to do a remake of the Count of Monument Crystal.
• 35:14
  Michael Barbuto: I think the idea, if you could somehow transform that and I've tried a couple times and haven't been successful yet but the idea of transforming like a long con or like a long revenge or something you know what I mean Like to me.
• 35:27
  Michael Barbuto: I feel like there's, there's a play in there where we could do it right for Hallmark, especially now how they they are, you know, branching out and doing different things.
• 35:37
  Michael Barbuto: But that would be the one for Hallmark.
• 35:38
  Michael Barbuto: And then, as far as a non-Hallmark remake, I'm a big horse guy.
• 35:44
  Michael Barbuto: You know, when I'm not on set and I'm not working and doing this, I'm with a horse.
• 35:49
  Michael Barbuto: My boys and I, my two sons, we ride a couple times a week.
• 35:53
  Michael Barbuto: So any Western I've still never done a Western.
• 35:56
  Michael Barbuto: You know, tombstone or Young Guns is a good franchise.
• 36:00
  Michael Barbuto: I would love to do a oh yeah, the Milly West of Ed Lude, Diamond Philips, maybe a oh yeah, like a reimagining of that, an ensemble Western, I think would be pretty cool.
• 36:13
  Eric Rutin: Awesome, all right.
• 36:13
  Eric Rutin: Well then, as an actor, what role like in a in a classic movie would you love to be cast as in a remake of?
• 36:24
  Michael Barbuto: I think I gravitate toward comedy.
• 36:26
  Michael Barbuto: You know that those were always my.
• 36:28
  Michael Barbuto: I was always stronger with comedy.
• 36:30
  Michael Barbuto: I think the idea of the challenge of of reimagining a classic character that is so iconic.
• 36:38
  Michael Barbuto: But you, you take the challenge, which I think takes a lot of guts, and then you come.
• 36:45
  Michael Barbuto: You come out the other end being like, oh my God now I'm not comparing myself to like a Bill Murray, but if they redid Caddy Shack, you know to do like a Carl Spackler, you know like that kind of thing, because how could you make it totally different?
• 36:57
  Michael Barbuto: You know, I find that that appealing, you know.
• 37:00
  Michael Barbuto: Or like a like a Rick Moranis, like playing Lewis and Ghostbusters, you know like to redo that kind of thing.
• 37:06
  Michael Barbuto: I think that would be the scariest but probably the most gratifying to take on a challenge like that.
• 37:13
  Eric Rutin: That would be bold, that would be bold.
• 37:15
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, yeah, and again, I'm not putting myself into the same league as those actors, but like there's the crazy masochistic, you know, like I said, like that low key love for the adrenaline rush, I think could be like, yeah, sure, let's, let's try that.
• 37:29
  Eric Rutin: All right, All right.
• 37:30
  Eric Rutin: So what's the either as an actor or as a producer, but what's the coolest thing you've ever kept from a set?
• 37:35
  Eric Rutin: I know you've had a snake something.
• 37:41
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah Well, it's, it's.
• 37:42
  Michael Barbuto: It's not even a secret really anymore.
• 37:44
  Michael Barbuto: I think I've done.
• 37:45
  Michael Barbuto: I want to say 10, 10,.
• 37:48
  Michael Barbuto: I've produced 10 different Hallmark movies with the same crew in Ottawa, where we predominantly shoot the ones that I oversee, and the one thing that I took on, like movie two or three, was a little Hawaiian, like one of those things that sits on the dashboard of the car.
• 38:05
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, yeah, the hula girl.
• 38:06
  Michael Barbuto: They're kind of like it's like one of those like bobble head but the whole body moves.
• 38:09
  Michael Barbuto: I put that in every single movie.
• 38:11
  Michael Barbuto: You might notice it actually Was that in the car that was in the car.
• 38:16
  Eric Rutin: the kiss right, Okay, Good eye.
• 38:19
  Michael Barbuto: So that's and it's also in in true justice, it's in Alex Nunez's the van, in Liam's van the the PI.
• 38:30
  Michael Barbuto: Okay so yeah, it makes, it makes a subtle appearance.
• 38:33
  Michael Barbuto: So yeah, that little hula dancer is probably my, the one thing.
• 38:37
  Michael Barbuto: I think that's probably the only thing I've ever taken.
• 38:39
  Eric Rutin: So you, you took it from a set and you keep returning it to sets.
• 38:43
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, I asked the prop master, who's a friend of mine on, like I said like it was the second or third movie I made in Ottawa with this team.
• 38:49
  Michael Barbuto: I was like I love this, can I keep this after we're done rapping?
• 38:52
  Michael Barbuto: And she said sure, and I was looking at it and I was like I kind of put it in my next one.
• 38:56
  Michael Barbuto: So then I did and then I just gave it back to her.
• 38:58
  Michael Barbuto: Now she holds onto it and if we end up using a different props team, that property master inherits this little Hawaiian hula dancer and is like what is this again?
• 39:08
  Michael Barbuto: And then somebody has to explain to them ah, it says it's Mike the producer.
• 39:11
  Michael Barbuto: He always puts this stupid hula girl in.
• 39:14
  Eric Rutin: So is it thought out ahead of time where you're going to, where you're going to stick it, or you just sort of like, hey, wait a minute, they'll fit here?
• 39:21
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, I wish I wish there was.
• 39:23
  Michael Barbuto: The answer that I want to give you is oh yeah, it's, it's prethought out.
• 39:26
  Michael Barbuto: We know exactly where it's going to go.
• 39:27
  Michael Barbuto: Typically, Eric, I'm so busy and these things are so fast and furious that on like day 13, I'm like, oh shit, the hula girl, I gotta put that in there.
• 39:39
  Michael Barbuto: So then we run to the warehouse and somebody grabs it and brings it to set and I'm like, okay, yeah, let's figure out where we can put it in.
• 39:47
  Michael Barbuto: Well, you stuck her in the steamiest scene in hallmark history this time so yeah, actually I think that was Italia whose idea it was to put it in that scene, put it on the dash of the car.
• 39:59
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 39:59
  Eric Rutin: Well, let's get down to what we're here to talk about, and that's true justice, family ties.
• 40:03
  Eric Rutin: So take us through the process of how this one was made.
• 40:08
  Eric Rutin: Like I saw, which is kind of interesting, that Nikki and Megan they wrote it, which I'm surprised that she's not the producer, because she kind of produces everything seems like on hallmark these days.
• 40:20
  Eric Rutin: But, like, how did like this one come around?
• 40:26
  Michael Barbuto: So it's an interesting, interesting story.
• 40:29
  Michael Barbuto: Actually, the execs, who we love working with, who we've done multiple movies with, they wanted again a mystery franchise.
• 40:36
  Michael Barbuto: That was an ensemble that skewed a little bit younger as far as audience and, you know, just had a different kind of vibe to it.
• 40:43
  Michael Barbuto: So when kicking around some ideas with our LA team, we came up with the concept which originally was called exonerate.
• 40:53
  Michael Barbuto: That was about these law school students that start this unofficial group where they rely on each of their individual skills as an intern be it you know forensics or you know evidence law or that kind of thing to help exonerate people that are wrongfully accused and sitting behind bars for crimes they didn't commit.
• 41:09
  Michael Barbuto: So we beat it out, the entire treatment for that first movie, and shared the co, what we call like a concept kind of thing.
• 41:17
  Michael Barbuto: That was sort of like an unofficial outline or like full synopsis of the movie.
• 41:21
  Michael Barbuto: We gave it to Nikki and Megan, who are phenomenal writers.
• 41:26
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, they're incredible.
• 41:28
  Eric Rutin: But how would you like pick them out?
• 41:32
  Michael Barbuto: That's just because at the time.
• 41:33
  Michael Barbuto: So we have another franchise family history mysteries with.
• 41:38
  Michael Barbuto: You probably know the Nile made her original parish.
• 41:40
  Michael Barbuto: That's that's ours as well.
• 41:41
  Michael Barbuto: That we did with the same, the well different executive book for Hallmark, and Nikki is one of the producers of that show.
• 41:49
  Michael Barbuto: Now we have a lot of things in development with Nikki and Nikki and Megan as writers.
• 41:55
  Michael Barbuto: Nikki as a producer, you know, obviously she's entrenched in the Hallmark universe.
• 41:59
  Michael Barbuto: You know there's nothing that woman can't do.
• 42:01
  Michael Barbuto: She's absolutely incredible.
• 42:02
  Michael Barbuto: So again, my boss, joel, who is the visionary and you know he's a very propulsive dude, he's the one that makes everything happen behind the curtain and he said this would be great for Nikki.
• 42:15
  Michael Barbuto: Her husband's a lawyer, he's an entertainment lawyer and you know I think she would resonate with this and let's give it to Nikki and Megan and see if they want to write it.
• 42:22
  Michael Barbuto: So we gave it to them and I was in Ottawa filming another movie at the time and we took a call with them and they were like over the moon.
• 42:27
  Michael Barbuto: They read it and they were like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for thinking of us.
• 42:30
  Michael Barbuto: This is incredible, like we totally want to write this and right from the get go they had so many ideas about.
• 42:36
  Michael Barbuto: Because, you know, we as the development executives aren't professional writers, right, so we can only take the concept so far.
• 42:44
  Michael Barbuto: But when you give it and you put it in the hands of, you know, real talented writers like that, they just elevate the material so much in the way that they deepen the relationships, the way that they, you know, expand the world and make everything just a little bit more nuanced.
• 42:59
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 42:59
  Michael Barbuto: It just it started to sink, it just came to life and the process of getting the script written from that initial concept doc that we gave them was actually not trying to remember now, because this would have been almost a year ago.
• 43:14
  Michael Barbuto: It wasn't nearly as challenging as other projects, you know, because there was such a clear, thought out idea of what this thing should be and everybody was kind of on the same page creatively and that carried right over into pre production.
• 43:28
  Michael Barbuto: As far as casting, you know, we just it all just came together very seamlessly, which is great.
• 43:34
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 43:34
  Eric Rutin: So, speaking of the casting, so how did?
• 43:36
  Eric Rutin: Well, obviously we know how Nikki cast Nikki, but, like, how did?
• 43:41
  Eric Rutin: How did the rest of the cast come together?
• 43:43
  Eric Rutin: How do you, how do you decide who to pick for for all these?
• 43:48
  Eric Rutin: There's so much talent out there.
• 43:50
  Michael Barbuto: There is.
• 43:50
  Michael Barbuto: There is a lot of times, I mean, like it comes down to, there's a couple different.
• 43:53
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, sometimes the network says this is who you're, you're what we call one and two, your two leads are.
• 43:58
  Michael Barbuto: Other times, you know, we'll have a conversation with the executive in charge of the project, as well as the woman who's the head of casting and her casting team over at Hallmark, and we'll say who are you excited about?
• 44:10
  Michael Barbuto: And they'll say well, we would love it if you could, you know, approach this person, this person, this person, and see if they're available.
• 44:15
  Michael Barbuto: And other times they're like I don't know, who do you think?
• 44:18
  Michael Barbuto: And then we come up with a list of people that we, like you know, in this particular situation, kat Kat was always, I think, everybody's top choice.
• 44:27
  Michael Barbuto: There was probably three different actors.
• 44:30
  Michael Barbuto: So when you say the top choice, is that like it was written Like?
• 44:34
  Eric Rutin: did Nikki think of her when she was writing it or was it after it?
• 44:37
  Michael Barbuto: was no after it was written after it was written.
• 44:40
  Eric Rutin: Oh, that really fits her Okay.
• 44:45
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, it was after it was after it was written.
• 44:48
  Michael Barbuto: And then, I think, once, once Catherine's name came up, we were like, oh, oh, yeah, I mean that makes perfect sense, you know.
• 44:58
  Michael Barbuto: So we reached out to her and I think, yeah, we were all simultaneously hoping that we would be able to make it work with her, and when we found out that we closed on Kat, we were thrilled.
• 45:14
  Michael Barbuto: The interesting thing is is, earlier on, when we were developing the pages, prior to even giving it to Nikki and Megan, we had all, like the la team that I work with, we had all thought, you know, markey and would be a good Eli, there was a couple different names again same same sort of thing.
• 45:35
  Michael Barbuto: There was a few names that we put forward to the network that they responded to, but in personally, in my mind, markey and was always, you know, I get you could probably say Kat McNamara was was up there too, because I've been a fan of hers for a long, long time, but to me that was like the dream team combo that I never thought we would be able to get them both, you know when those are like two of the top picks.
• 45:59
  Michael Barbuto: And then the fact that we did it was I was over the moon, like I was for like a week.
• 46:04
  Michael Barbuto: I was just running around super excited about it.
• 46:07
  Michael Barbuto: And then once the casting for the other three Marisa McIntyre, who plays Sarah, alex Nunez, who plays Liam, and then Sabrina Saud and who plays PJ.
• 46:17
  Michael Barbuto: When we were casting the three of them, marisa I had worked with before, so I was a huge fan of hers, but I had never met Alex and I had never met Sabrina.
• 46:26
  Michael Barbuto: We just we just fell in love with them.
• 46:28
  Michael Barbuto: Our director, jonathan Wright, loved them.
• 46:30
  Michael Barbuto: You know, joel, our executive producer, myself, the network executives it just, it just fit.
• 46:36
  Michael Barbuto: We didn't do any kind of chemistry test with all of them.
• 46:38
  Michael Barbuto: You know, as these things there isn't usually time for that kind of thing.
• 46:41
  Michael Barbuto: But yeah, from day one on set they just all kind of gelled and became fast friends, which was really nice to see and honestly, I think it really shows on camera that they have a comfortability and a chemistry with one another.
• 46:55
  Michael Barbuto: So we got very lucky in that regard.
• 46:57
  Eric Rutin: And then you have two of the like Walmart A-listers, apparently in supporting roles, with Benjamin and Nikki.
• 47:05
  Eric Rutin: Yeah, that's all I mean absolutely crazy that they would.
• 47:10
  Michael Barbuto: Ben Ben is one of the most talented, funniest human beings on the planet period.
• 47:15
  Eric Rutin: He's one of my favorite.
• 47:16
  Eric Rutin: We got to talk to him last year and the dude is hilarious, he's hilarious.
• 47:22
  Michael Barbuto: He's amazing and it's insanely smart to, and that's honestly, that was Nikki.
• 47:25
  Michael Barbuto: So we had approached Nikki and said you know, we think one of the things that would make this even more successful aside from the wonderful writing and the performances and stuff and like, look, it's going to skew younger, it's going to be hipper and more fun and you know, we still want to bring in that Hallmark audience.
• 47:42
  Michael Barbuto: You know and Nikki is on is Curious, cater Right.
• 47:46
  Michael Barbuto: Is that the name of her.
• 47:47
  Eric Rutin: Yeah.
• 47:47
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, you know, and aside from that, just being a perennial Hallmark star, we thought, as the writer, would you want to play Professor Ambrose, you know, and be kind of like the mentor to these five young law students.
• 47:58
  Michael Barbuto: And Nikki jumped on the opportunity and I actually think it was her idea where she was like and you know, who we should get for the district attorney, who's also a recurring character, is Ben.
• 48:08
  Michael Barbuto: As a favor to me may consider this.
• 48:11
  Michael Barbuto: So she reached out to Ben.
• 48:12
  Michael Barbuto: Ben said absolutely I'm there.
• 48:14
  Michael Barbuto: So I mean I, I can't, eric, I can't speak enough about how blessed we feel to have frigging Nikki Deloach and Ben Ayres both in recurring roles in this thing.
• 48:25
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, come on you know what I?
• 48:27
  Michael Barbuto: mean it's like we just created, like the USA, like the all star team for the Olympics in the 90s.
• 48:33
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 48:33
  Michael Barbuto: Like it's just, it's awesome.
• 48:36
  Eric Rutin: The thing that's that you made me think of and we've talked about this a bunch is the Hallmark universe is just kind of weird in the way of the actors because they are kind of like all just friends together.
• 48:46
  Eric Rutin: So it does not surprise me that Nikki would just be like, oh, let me see if Ben will do as a favor to me, and he'll, without a doubt, you know, doesn't even think, yeah, sure, that sounds fun, you know.
• 48:57
  Eric Rutin: So yeah, yeah, and I don't think you get that and you obviously deal with a lot of others, but I just don't think you would get that in the world of, you know, entertainment in general as much.
• 49:09
  Michael Barbuto: No, there's no family.
• 49:10
  Michael Barbuto: It goes back to what I was saying about how you know that, that brand recognition, and then it's a world, it's a culture, but I think, honestly, the best adjective I can do it is it's family.
• 49:20
  Michael Barbuto: Like you know, when you look at Ramadrama, when you look at Christmas con, you know the countdown to Christmas and all these events that the actors do, the fact that these guys go they'll travel from LA to New York and they get together the amount of philanthropic endeavors they have, the charitable things that they do outside of their scope of work.
• 49:36
  Michael Barbuto: You know they're amazing brand ambassadors for the network but, to your point, you know they're all friends.
• 49:42
  Michael Barbuto: It's a community.
• 49:43
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 49:44
  Michael Barbuto: They all know each other, you know, and that's something that you don't see.
• 49:47
  Michael Barbuto: And I honestly think there's something that transfers on film.
• 49:51
  Michael Barbuto: When you have I just did a movie with Tyler Hines I've never seen a human being.
• 49:55
  Michael Barbuto: I've worked with a lot of famous people.
• 49:58
  Michael Barbuto: I've never seen somebody who's more appreciative of his fan base than somebody like Tyler, you know, and he's got a massive fan base, you know.
• 50:05
  Michael Barbuto: So when you see that, that level of interaction and that level of intimate connection that these guys make you know with their scores of fans all over the country when you watch the movie with them.
• 50:17
  Michael Barbuto: Now you feel like you know them, you feel like there's a comfortability there.
• 50:20
  Michael Barbuto: It's like, oh, I've met that guy, or you know she was at this, or you know like she responded to me on this when I reached out and tagged her on whatever, and it's just, it's yeah, it's put it this way it's a family that I feel very fortunate to be a part of and get to work with these folks, because I can say they are wonderful human beings outside of outside of work.
• 50:40
  Eric Rutin: But yeah, it's.
• 50:41
  Eric Rutin: The thing is it's funny because when we started the podcast and it was like so intimidated about thinking about reaching out to ask him to be on as a guest on there and sure they've all been like so amazingly nice and yeah, sure I'll be on your podcast and you know we're little whatever mystery, hallmark, mystery, podcast, right, yeah?
• 51:00
  Eric Rutin: And it was like yeah, when you want to do it, I'm game.
• 51:03
  Eric Rutin: I was, like I honestly was surprised and Brennan Elliott, and then they get on and then you talk to them during the interview and they're fantastic.
• 51:11
  Eric Rutin: But then you chat with them, just chit chat and, like you said, they're just fantastic people and that's the thing I've just literally found and we talked to everyone from costumers through, you know, writers now and producer, actors, and everyone has just been so generally just nice people which you know, hallmark does not, or not in the hallmark, hollywood does not necessarily have a reputation for genuine nice people.
• 51:36
  Eric Rutin: Right, you always think of like the slimy or whatever and stuff.
• 51:39
  Eric Rutin: But yeah, the hallmark world is a little different in that aspect.
• 51:42
  Eric Rutin: All right, let's get back to to here.
• 51:46
  Eric Rutin: So one of the things that we have we talked about and you talked about like the story arc is a little bit different is a lot of hallmark fans are just really upset that mysteries are being made one offs and then they're not being made like they were before.
• 52:04
  Eric Rutin: You know, seven episodes of mystery one on one, five episodes of gourmet attack to five episodes of crossword mysteries.
• 52:10
  Eric Rutin: Now they just seem to be doing a lot of these one offs and people are getting frustrated that they're not getting extra Curious.
• 52:16
  Eric Rutin: Cater is one where we've been fortunate where we have them.
• 52:19
  Eric Rutin: So what would you tell people to get them excited about this one?
• 52:24
  Eric Rutin: Yet another new mystery.
• 52:29
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, I mean, I think it's incumbent on the viewership, right, like if you want to see more, you got to tune in and watch it.
• 52:33
  Michael Barbuto: If the numbers are good, the network sees that it did well, they will make more installments.
• 52:37
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 52:38
  Michael Barbuto: I think let's not to say that some of the ones look.
• 52:40
  Michael Barbuto: There's a lot of factors, a lot of contributing factors that come into play with respect to deciding what moves forward and what doesn't.
• 52:47
  Michael Barbuto: I think in the heyday you had your Aurora Tea Gardens, although we're making more of those.
• 52:53
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, it's our company that makes the redux, the new ones.
• 52:55
  Michael Barbuto: I think the first one was fantastic.
• 52:58
  Eric Rutin: Wait did you say, your company knows that.
• 52:59
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, muse Entertainment, we're the ones that are making the.
• 53:03
  Michael Barbuto: Skyler loved Skyler with the last one yeah, she was amazing, Evan Rotterich.
• 53:10
  Michael Barbuto: They were just phenomenal.
• 53:11
  Eric Rutin: I'm not an Aurora Tea Garden fan until that one, and then I'm like I'm all in now on the new one.
• 53:16
  Eric Rutin: So all right, sorry, you'd be surprised how many people.
• 53:19
  Michael Barbuto: No, no, no, you'd be surprised how many people.
• 53:20
  Michael Barbuto: I've heard that where they were.
• 53:21
  Michael Barbuto: That was a tricky one.
• 53:22
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 53:23
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, I'm not an executive Again.
• 53:26
  Michael Barbuto: My boss, joel, as well as another development executive who I work with, scott Clayton they were really the two that championed the reimagining of that franchise, and I don't think they could have done a better job.
• 53:36
  Michael Barbuto: The director, jessica Harmon, was phenomenal.
• 53:38
  Michael Barbuto: The performances that Skyler and Evan gave were phenomenal.
• 53:41
  Michael Barbuto: The supporting cast was great.
• 53:43
  Michael Barbuto: Not an easy thing to take.
• 53:44
  Michael Barbuto: A franchise that did what 17 movies Reboot it as a prequel or an origin story, and then the integrity of the franchise that did so well but at the same time, give it a fresh spin, and I just think that they knocked it out of the park, and I can tell you that the next two are going to be even better than the first one.
• 54:03
  Eric Rutin: But they didn't get, you know whatever, nikki to be a supporting actor for that one.
• 54:08
  Eric Rutin: So Kudos to you.
• 54:09
  Michael Barbuto: This is true.
• 54:10
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, thank you Again.
• 54:12
  Michael Barbuto: That was easy when she's the one writing it and we can ask her.
• 54:14
  Eric Rutin: We'll throw Ben in there.
• 54:16
  Eric Rutin: So back to the.
• 54:16
  Eric Rutin: Well, they did get Mary Lou Hunter, so back to how we're going to get people excited over a new mystery.
• 54:24
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, honestly, like I said, like to get them excited, I would say that this one what I'm most proud of is this one has something for everyone.
• 54:31
  Michael Barbuto: There's a part of me that you know if you tune into HMM and you love Hallmark Mysteries, you will love this movie.
• 54:38
  Michael Barbuto: This is a little bit more elevated than your standard.
• 54:43
  Michael Barbuto: You know three red herring twists and it's number two who ends up being the call.
• 54:47
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 54:48
  Michael Barbuto: Like this is.
• 54:49
  Michael Barbuto: It's different.
• 54:50
  Michael Barbuto: Like I said, it's like an episode.
• 54:52
  Michael Barbuto: It feels very procedural, like what you would see, like a broadcast show or something on, like primetime.
• 54:57
  Michael Barbuto: You know, like it's a long order meets a 21 Jump Street, you know.
• 55:01
  Michael Barbuto: So that's why I say it's got something for everybody.
• 55:04
  Michael Barbuto: It'll have the familiarity that you've come to know and love, but it's also going to be something different.
• 55:09
  Michael Barbuto: I mean this one.
• 55:10
  Michael Barbuto: We were working on developing the second one just before the break and you know, if we're, if we're fortunate enough to be able to do a second one, we're kicking around ideas and I was just so impressed with you know, nikki and Megan, the writers, as well as you know our team of creatives how we just kept saying it's not enough, we've got to challenge it.
• 55:30
  Michael Barbuto: We got to go further.
• 55:30
  Michael Barbuto: We got to.
• 55:31
  Michael Barbuto: It was like a, like a writing room where everybody was on the same pages.
• 55:34
  Michael Barbuto: You know, how can we make this even better?
• 55:37
  Michael Barbuto: How can we do something that nobody's seen before?
• 55:39
  Michael Barbuto: And that's what I think, in a nutshell, this franchise will bring.
• 55:43
  Michael Barbuto: You know if you want to see something where you walk away going man.
• 55:46
  Michael Barbuto: I've never seen anything like that on Hallmark before.
• 55:48
  Michael Barbuto: This is the one.
• 55:50
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 55:50
  Eric Rutin: Well, like I say, countdown, christmas gave us a lot of that, so maybe the 2024 mysteries will will continue that streak, I think.
• 55:57
  Michael Barbuto: so we're going to.
• 55:59
  Michael Barbuto: We're going to kick it off with a bang.
• 56:00
  Michael Barbuto: This is, this is the this is a good one that I've seen a lot of them.
• 56:05
  Eric Rutin: So you just alluded to it.
• 56:06
  Eric Rutin: One of the things that is sort of our little soapbox that we get on is with mysteries.
• 56:12
  Eric Rutin: We think and I understand there's this is me talking as the fan, right and we, you know, we mentioned before there's a lot of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we just don't, as fans, know or understand.
• 56:23
  Eric Rutin: But as fans we just think, like I think Hallmark needs to commit to doing three episodes when they, when we launch a mystery, we're going to do three episodes because one of the differences between Romcom and the mystery and you said it before the Romcom is all neatly packaged in the 84 minutes Done, whereas mysteries the characters develop, there's arcs to them, the romance.
• 56:48
  Eric Rutin: You know, if there's romance it doesn't happen in that first episode necessarily.
• 56:52
  Michael Barbuto: You know a lot of more tension.
• 56:55
  Eric Rutin: And you know, curious cater, we're talking about that.
• 56:56
  Eric Rutin: That's a great example where, like, the first one was good but the second one was so much better because these characters now we knew who they were and then they took them to the next level, right.
• 57:06
  Eric Rutin: And so that's, I guess, the frustration of when you do get these one off mysteries and there've been some great ones Tia Nora, cases of mystery lane, francesca Quinn like that have so much more story to tell, and I hope, by the way, this does not end on a cliffhanger if you don't have greenlit for episode two.
• 57:22
  Eric Rutin: But you know.
• 57:24
  Eric Rutin: So back to the thing is, I understand there's the economics and there's the business decisions, but don't you think it'd be a better world if they would just commit to three?
• 57:33
  Eric Rutin: Paycheck aside for you.
• 57:36
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, I mean sure, as the producer is making them, you know, and the ones that are creating them, then of course that would be wonderful.
• 57:42
  Michael Barbuto: I think there's a lot of other factors that come into play and, like all the ones that you mentioned the Nikki and Nora, you know, the, those aren't ours.
• 57:51
  Michael Barbuto: But I can say, and I'm pretty confident in saying this, nobody go, whether it's a licensed movie, that's you know IP or you know different source material, that it gets brought into Hallmark and Hallmark green lights it and puts it in development, or whether it's, you know, an in-house endeavor that they've been outsourced to somebody else to make for them as an in-house franchise.
• 58:11
  Michael Barbuto: I don't think the intention is ever just to do one.
• 58:14
  Michael Barbuto: I mean, you said it yourself, those serialized elements, those character driven elements, right where you watch those relationships or the people come closer and it's like the will they won't they, you know, maybe there's a looming threat or like a big bad that carries over into multiple movies.
• 58:30
  Michael Barbuto: I mean that's the connective tissue that makes us come back for these things, not the mystery that's central to that movie, and of course that's important, but it's watching these characters grow and evolve.
• 58:41
  Michael Barbuto: So nobody makes a mystery with the intention of only making one.
• 58:46
  Michael Barbuto: So I will say that you know what I mean.
• 58:48
  Michael Barbuto: Now, as far as why don't they just green light?
• 58:50
  Michael Barbuto: You can't green light three if one doesn't do well.
• 58:53
  Michael Barbuto: And, like I said, I don't even know if that's the reason why some of those other ones didn't get a second one.
• 58:57
  Michael Barbuto: There's so many factors, I know there's scheduling, there's money, there's a million other things that you know we've already got this many for this year and our slate.
• 59:05
  Michael Barbuto: You know we couldn't find an error date to put this one.
• 59:07
  Michael Barbuto: You know, like I don't want to speak for the network because I, truthfully, I don't know all the ins and outs.
• 59:12
  Michael Barbuto: You know behind their doors as to what their decision making is, but so I can just say that, yeah, as a producer, I would love it that became a reality, where it's like here's a three picture deal.
• 59:24
  Michael Barbuto: I wish that was the case for everything.
• 59:25
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean, but it's sadly not the case.
• 59:30
  Eric Rutin: When you do talk to him.
• 59:30
  Eric Rutin: Did you like talk about the beyond an episode?
• 59:36
  Eric Rutin: Or is the conversation really just this singular installment, or is it like oh hey, this is what the first one is, but this is where it can lead?
• 59:44
  Eric Rutin: Is that like even part of the discussion?
• 59:46
  Eric Rutin: Yeah, 100%.
• 59:48
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, these things.
• 59:48
  Michael Barbuto: These things tend to be more of like a hybrid.
• 59:50
  Michael Barbuto: It's almost like a TV series.
• 59:51
  Michael Barbuto: When you sell them, I mean, part of the selling feature is saying here's where Kat McNamara and you know, Markey and here's where their characters are going to go.
• 1:00:01
  Michael Barbuto: By movie two we hope if we get to make a second one we will see their characters come this much closer.
• 1:00:07
  Michael Barbuto: Then by movie three, they'll separate.
• 1:00:08
  Michael Barbuto: And then by movie four, one of them gets the offer to move away but then ends up coming back.
• 1:00:12
  Michael Barbuto: And then by movie five, like we will map out in a Bible pretty much what happens.
• 1:00:18
  Michael Barbuto: You know, because that's what they want to see.
• 1:00:20
  Michael Barbuto: You know that's the selling feature.
• 1:00:23
  Eric Rutin: Okay, perfect.
• 1:00:24
  Eric Rutin: So they want to know that has the legs.
• 1:00:26
  Eric Rutin: They just may not do the legs.
• 1:00:29
  Michael Barbuto: All right.
• 1:00:29
  Michael Barbuto: Well, yeah, I mean again, it's completely, it's determined, dependent on you know how well the movie does is one of the major things you know.
• 1:00:36
  Eric Rutin: so Well, so here's the thing you just convinced us by telling us how this is the most unique mystery ever and it's going to be this wonderful, great thing.
• 1:00:44
  Eric Rutin: So there's no, and you've got I mean you've got Nikki writing it, who she pretty much owns Hallmark, right, so whatever she says goes.
• 1:00:51
  Eric Rutin: So we can assume you have three more episodes coming down.
• 1:00:54
  Eric Rutin: So all I want to say is, when you're thinking about casting a dead body right here, this guy that's my bowl.
• 1:01:03
  Eric Rutin: I want to be a dead body on a Hallmark in a mystery at some point.
• 1:01:07
  Eric Rutin: All right so.
• 1:01:08
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 1:01:08
  Eric Rutin: So can you tell us any fun behind the scenes story, whether it be you know something that's going on set or just far as the making of it or anything like that?
• 1:01:16
  Eric Rutin: You got any good fun story?
• 1:01:18
  Michael Barbuto: on this one, yeah, so you'll see when the movie comes out on the 12,.
• 1:01:23
  Michael Barbuto: There's a couple scenes that take place in a marina around a giant yacht and where we see Kat and Markey and Casey and Eli are two leads chasing down who they think is responsible for a murder.
• 1:01:39
  Michael Barbuto: That day that we were filming I think it was over the span of two days at this marina, it was like a torrential rain.
• 1:01:46
  Michael Barbuto: There was a tornado warning.
• 1:01:48
  Michael Barbuto: We were running inside and then running out to film a couple lines and we go back in and we just we lost so much time that day.
• 1:01:55
  Michael Barbuto: It was like it was almost one of those days where you got to throw your hands up in the air and just say, well, it's going to be what it's going to be.
• 1:02:01
  Michael Barbuto: You know like we're going to have to pivot the scenes inside.
• 1:02:03
  Michael Barbuto: But the reason I bring this up is because some cat, who you know this is, this is a major star.
• 1:02:10
  Michael Barbuto: This is somebody who has over a million followers on social, has been on big time TV shows, you know, but you never know what.
• 1:02:16
  Michael Barbuto: Talking to her, she's just so down to earth and real, because the scene with her and Markey and it's this two-hander that's probably a page in a bit.
• 1:02:25
  Michael Barbuto: You know where they just and we're in and out.
• 1:02:27
  Michael Barbuto: We were like, because of the rain we got to shoot it in one shot, just a tight two shot.
• 1:02:32
  Michael Barbuto: You know we just need to frigging one minute of no rain kind of thing, and then we can get it and we can move on.
• 1:02:39
  Michael Barbuto: The problem is is every time we'd run back outside to get set up and shoot it, the car that they're standing in front of would be covered in rain, like the sun would be out in the movie.
• 1:02:48
  Michael Barbuto: It's supposed to be a sunny day.
• 1:02:49
  Michael Barbuto: So we've got crew guys wiping down the car.
• 1:02:52
  Michael Barbuto: Kat grabs a roll of paper towel and she's like everybody, get your asses over here, get in here.
• 1:02:58
  Michael Barbuto: And here you've got your star literally with, like Ron, paper towels, two handing it like the karate kid doing the wax on wax off thing, haulering it, people to get in, wiping the car down like it's a NASCAR pit crew.
• 1:03:13
  Michael Barbuto: And then she take the paper towels, throw them away and go like this and be like, okay, let's just shoot.
• 1:03:18
  Michael Barbuto: And then we shoot the scene and we actually got it.
• 1:03:20
  Michael Barbuto: The only reason we got it is because you know, when positivity and energy like that.
• 1:03:25
  Michael Barbuto: It's a top down thing, you know what I mean.
• 1:03:27
  Michael Barbuto: So when my crew watches the star of a franchise grab the paper towel and do that and be like come on, guys, many hands make light work, kind of thing, everybody rushes in and does it and we're able.
• 1:03:39
  Michael Barbuto: The only reason we were able to get that scene is because of what she did in that moment, and that's like one example of how lucky we were with this cast.
• 1:03:48
  Michael Barbuto: You know, the five of them were just amazing like that.
• 1:03:51
  Michael Barbuto: There was never that could have been a recipe for a disaster, if not castor as far as egos and whatever.
• 1:03:57
  Michael Barbuto: And there was none of that.
• 1:03:58
  Michael Barbuto: You know what I mean.
• 1:03:59
  Michael Barbuto: It was just it was constant laughs every day on that one.
• 1:04:02
  Eric Rutin: That is awesome, actually, if I ever run into her.
• 1:04:04
  Eric Rutin: I have to have her wax my car.
• 1:04:06
  Eric Rutin: For me then Sounds like she's got these skills.
• 1:04:10
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, you could tell she's definitely.
• 1:04:11
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, there was some.
• 1:04:13
  Michael Barbuto: That wasn't her first time, that's for sure.
• 1:04:15
  Eric Rutin: So you kind of alluded to this earlier is when you're developing a mystery, it's a little different than the rom-com.
• 1:04:22
  Eric Rutin: How do you balance the suspense with the storytelling you know to keep the audience engaged because, like you're saying, you can't cut out something?
• 1:04:31
  Eric Rutin: But it is a weird balance that that's much harder, I assume.
• 1:04:38
  Michael Barbuto: It is.
• 1:04:38
  Michael Barbuto: It is.
• 1:04:38
  Michael Barbuto: It's one that I enjoy.
• 1:04:39
  Michael Barbuto: It starts in the development process.
• 1:04:42
  Michael Barbuto: It's sometimes it's easier when you're working with like a tighter, shorter document it's like a 10 page document in the outline to realize, okay, we gotta work out this mystery.
• 1:04:51
  Michael Barbuto: It's falling a little flat here.
• 1:04:52
  Michael Barbuto: You know we got a lot of character stuff, we got a lot of good emotional beats here, but we need to beef up how challenging it is for our leads to figure out, to get on the right trail of who the bad guy is, kind of thing.
• 1:05:03
  Michael Barbuto: So a lot of times it's in that outline.
• 1:05:06
  Michael Barbuto: A lot of times, once the movie is expanded into draft and we read the script, we'll see where that how, that balance lies.
• 1:05:16
  Michael Barbuto: When you've got, you know, 103 page script versus a 10 page, you know treatment or outline and then, honestly, a lot of it is in the edit room.
• 1:05:25
  Michael Barbuto: Because when you're shooting it's difficult to know.
• 1:05:29
  Michael Barbuto: You know you basically you want to shoot everything and get as much as you can, because the worst case scenario would be to get into the edit room and not have what you need right.
• 1:05:37
  Michael Barbuto: And then in the edit it's playing around, especially in that first act.
• 1:05:41
  Michael Barbuto: You know that first act that's 18 minutes, 20 minutes.
• 1:05:44
  Michael Barbuto: You know that's what's gonna hook your audience.
• 1:05:46
  Michael Barbuto: They're gonna change the channel If you don't explain the world, explain the characters, explain the mystery and, you know, set up some level of intrigue to come back after that first commercial break.
• 1:05:56
  Michael Barbuto: So in the edit, in that first act, it's all about finding that balance and doing that delicate dance of have we given them enough mystery?
• 1:06:03
  Michael Barbuto: Have we set up enough intrigue?
• 1:06:04
  Michael Barbuto: Have we set up enough peril?
• 1:06:06
  Michael Barbuto: Does it feel like the stakes are high enough?
• 1:06:08
  Michael Barbuto: Because sometimes, you know it can fall a little flat?
• 1:06:10
  Michael Barbuto: And then also, have we made it entertaining?
• 1:06:12
  Michael Barbuto: You know, and is this something that you know?
• 1:06:15
  Michael Barbuto: We are now emotionally invested in those characters to want to come back after that first commercial break.
• 1:06:20
  Michael Barbuto: So you know, those are the three during development and then when you're shooting and then in the edit.
• 1:06:26
  Michael Barbuto: So it's.
• 1:06:27
  Michael Barbuto: I guess you could say it's a constant thing all the way through With the mysteries.
• 1:06:32
  Michael Barbuto: It's a conversation, yeah, about balance the whole way through.
• 1:06:35
  Eric Rutin: That's interesting, though you said that First 18 minutes really is key, because I can't tell you how many people have left me comments when I've talked about a movie being.
• 1:06:43
  Eric Rutin: You know, oh, I really like this movie or whatever, and I'm like, oh, I turned it off like 10 minutes in.
• 1:06:48
  Eric Rutin: I'm like, how do?
• 1:06:48
  Eric Rutin: You turn it off 10 minutes in because there's so much to come and they miss, like where the movie really got great.
• 1:06:55
  Eric Rutin: But I guess that's the key, right, you got to get that hook.
• 1:06:58
  Eric Rutin: You got 18 minutes to engage them.
• 1:07:01
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah.
• 1:07:02
  Michael Barbuto: All right, and that's where, if you're lucky enough, if you're lucky enough to work with executives over at Hallmark that I mean all of them are like this, that they just know you know what I mean Like we, the executive who's in charge of true justice, the two of them.
• 1:07:14
  Michael Barbuto: You know, one of the things that they said to us right off the bat was you know, you need a scene to open this movie that tells us who these, these law students are.
• 1:07:22
  Michael Barbuto: We want to see them interacting, because we're starting with too much action, too much mystery, we're not seeing the character building.
• 1:07:29
  Michael Barbuto: So, and they were a hundred percent right.
• 1:07:31
  Michael Barbuto: And then once we once Nikki and Megan rewrote that scene.
• 1:07:34
  Michael Barbuto: It's beautiful, and you see the camaraderie and the friendship that these kids have with one another, these law students have with one another.
• 1:07:41
  Michael Barbuto: Well now, as soon as we introduce the mystery and the challenge for them, we as the viewership are immediately on board, emotional and we're rooting for them, whereas before as much, and we didn't even notice that until our execs at Hallmark said you know, you need this in order to have that happen.
• 1:07:58
  Michael Barbuto: So, yeah, it's, it's, it's a collaborative effort, but it's.
• 1:08:01
  Michael Barbuto: There's always a conversation of balance and you know, as you say if you don't have that in that first act, man, they changed the channel and then you're doomed, that's it.
• 1:08:09
  Eric Rutin: And then we're not getting episode two, three and then me as the dead body.
• 1:08:12
  Michael Barbuto: There you go.
• 1:08:13
  Michael Barbuto: All right, there you go.
• 1:08:14
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, everyone, please watch, please watch, hashtag, eric, all right, that's what, that's what we need.
• 1:08:20
  Eric Rutin: All right.
• 1:08:21
  Eric Rutin: So last question so last year, I think, was the year where it was like, even more than the actors, we had Nicole McCormick with her costuming and the cases of Mr Lane, where she just developed both Birdie and Alden so great with her costuming.
• 1:08:35
  Eric Rutin: William McKnight in the cinematography of Oro T-Garden something new, which he said is one of your guys' movie.
• 1:08:40
  Eric Rutin: So you knew, like that movie, the cinematography of it just was so cool.
• 1:08:44
  Eric Rutin: You know, jennifer Stroud, you had her in your just she's doing this movie I saw for your costuming she did catch me in the closet.
• 1:08:52
  Eric Rutin: And the catch me like the costuming, catch me in the closet was so great.
• 1:08:55
  Eric Rutin: So is there something like above and beyond, just like the story and the acting about this movie that really is going to set it apart as well?
• 1:09:03
  Eric Rutin: Like you know, like I said, there's the costuming, the cinematography or the music or anything.
• 1:09:08
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, all of the above I love the.
• 1:09:10
  Eric Rutin: That's a cop.
• 1:09:11
  Eric Rutin: You got to give a real.
• 1:09:12
  Eric Rutin: You got to pick one.
• 1:09:14
  Michael Barbuto: I'll give you two specific, two specific things.
• 1:09:16
  Michael Barbuto: Then the production design.
• 1:09:17
  Michael Barbuto: The production design which was done by a gentleman by the name of Shane Boucher who actually runs the services team in Ottawa that we work with.
• 1:09:25
  Michael Barbuto: He's one of the most talented production designers I've ever worked with the juxtaposition that he came up with as far as the traditional Gothic looking architecture when they're in law school or they're in a courthouse, versus the new age, modern kind of feel that feels like an episode of CSI Miami, you know.
• 1:09:41
  Michael Barbuto: And I mean with the lighting design, with the blue lights and like you're in the lab and you're using all the high tech stuff.
• 1:09:47
  Michael Barbuto: The juxtaposition there between ultra modern and cool and flashy versus like, like I said, that traditional kind of, you know, law schooly.
• 1:09:56
  Michael Barbuto: Look, I think he knocked it out of the park and I think that this one, from a production value standpoint, is just visually so much prettier.
• 1:10:03
  Michael Barbuto: And the second thing I will say is also under the umbrella of visual, which was our DP, our cinematographer, michael Gailbraith, who works very closely with our director, jonathan Wright, who's unreal.
• 1:10:14
  Michael Barbuto: I could go on all day about how good and talented Jonathan is.
• 1:10:17
  Michael Barbuto: But Michael the DP, he was also the one who did family history with Nile and Janelle.
• 1:10:23
  Michael Barbuto: He's got a very cinematic look.
• 1:10:26
  Michael Barbuto: It's always a little bit darker, it's always a little bit moodier.
• 1:10:29
  Michael Barbuto: You know, like I said, this looks like an episode of Law Order.
• 1:10:32
  Michael Barbuto: I remember watching the cold open of this one where we're using drone shots, we have a police car chase and there's all kinds of things happening that you don't typically see in a movie of this size or scope.
• 1:10:42
  Michael Barbuto: You know, within the first five minutes and it's like you know, you get excited when you say, like this feels different, it doesn't feel like a traditional kind of, you know, tv movie kind of thing, this one, I honestly can say it doesn't feel like it, it feels totally different, you know.
• 1:10:59
  Michael Barbuto: So those are the two things that I would point out, aside from the amazing direction, storytelling and performance.
• 1:11:06
  Michael Barbuto: I know I may be overselling the production, design and the cinematography are pretty badass.
• 1:11:11
  Eric Rutin: All right, that's very cool, I'll say so.
• 1:11:14
  Eric Rutin: Your family history mystery Sydney, my co-host, the turquoise phone that Chanel Parrish had in that may have been her favorite thing of the entire 2023 mystery.
• 1:11:27
  Eric Rutin: She would always talk about her phone and she's like I don't even have like a you know landline, but I want that turquoise phone.
• 1:11:35
  Michael Barbuto: So I know that's not the first time I've heard that actually.
• 1:11:39
  Eric Rutin: So All right, Mike.
• 1:11:40
  Eric Rutin: Well, this was actually fascinating.
• 1:11:43
  Eric Rutin: Like I say, you really opened up the eyes on a whole different side that we, you know, as fans, we don't necessarily always see from the background of what takes place and making a movie, and it's just absolutely fascinating.
• 1:11:55
  Eric Rutin: So I really appreciate you agreeing to join me.
• 1:11:59
  Eric Rutin: We're looking forward to being the first mystery of the year.
• 1:12:02
  Eric Rutin: That's two years in a row.
• 1:12:03
  Eric Rutin: You get to kick off the the mystery seasons.
• 1:12:06
  Eric Rutin: Congratulations on that.
• 1:12:08
  Michael Barbuto: That's right.
• 1:12:08
  Michael Barbuto: Yeah, family history last year was was January.
• 1:12:12
  Michael Barbuto: I think January 8th and that war January 12th this year.
• 1:12:14
  Michael Barbuto: So, yeah, I really appreciate you having me on.
• 1:12:17
  Michael Barbuto: I hope everybody tunes in.
• 1:12:18
  Michael Barbuto: It's like I said, this is this one's got something for everyone.
• 1:12:22
  Michael Barbuto: I'm really, really proud of this one and it's a super exciting, hopefully a franchise that will last for a long time.
• 1:12:28
  Eric Rutin: Well, you like to say yeah, we said before, the cast is just completely next level.
• 1:12:33
  Eric Rutin: So if all the other things are as good as you say, I don't see how it can not be all right, all right, but thank you very much.
• 1:12:41
  Eric Rutin: All right, eric, let's talk to you later, okay.
• 1:12:44
  Michael Barbuto: Thanks very much, man.
• 1:12:45
  Michael Barbuto: I'll see you later.
• 1:12:47
  Michael Barbuto: I'll see you later.