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Bengals Final Contract Dilemma & Eagles Defensive Departures · The MMQB NFL Podcast

0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello!
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to M&P.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a dope podcast.
0:08
[SPEAKER_00]: There's Albert in his home studio.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: He's back.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I am back.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I am back, yeah.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
0:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's just hanging on to work.
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you guys have this in New Jersey.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a nice little crisp in the air this morning.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: When I walked outside, it was like not maybe not hoodie weather yet, but it felt like a little bit like the fall out there.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was nice.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I did notice we were up in the mountains over the weekend where I was watching some preseason football, but as we were driving home to New Jersey, there was that there's almost like that signature end of summer storm.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I always kind of noticed.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I got out of the car to go to Target because I had to go get baby food.
0:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I could feel it.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I might wear a sweatshirt tomorrow.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I am.
0:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's still hot, but like you said, there's just this little undercurrent.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed
1:00
[SPEAKER_00]: We stop for ice cream at our favorite place.
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: when we're up in the mountains and now there's pumpkin stuff on the menu and I was like shit man we're here like it's happening.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you're like me but I get so sick of the heat like by the end of summer I'm more than ready for I'm more than ready for the temperature to drop now the problem is knowing what's on the other end of that but um you know I I don't want it to be eighty five in humid forever and ever I'm I'm excited when we're done with that
1:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not an eighty year old in in St.
1:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Peter'sburg floor.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to keep your muscles loose or whatever.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good with the mix, but I mean, when we're in deep January, I'm also not enjoying the fact that my hands are are a complete chapped mess, but I'll take this.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: This is good.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just
1:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to more normalize celebrating the end of summer.
1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always seen as a sad thing, especially if you have kids, but I think it's a good thing because my kids hate each other right now.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And they are all the point where it's just World War III until.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: we get to that point where they're just they go their separate ways they go into their classes and I think that everybody just gets to be still new at this I feel like like you're still like you're not like the end of summer I I always wondered like I think I noticed when I was a kid that my my parents had a little more pep in their step in September and you wonder why now I know
2:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's just like that, and it's the practice of having to occupy them, you know what I mean?
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And as somebody who does so much of my work from home, same way you do, it's like, there's nothing worse than like, you know, and I mean this and not deadbeat that way where like your kid comes down at ten a.m.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: and there's no one around to hang out.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you have work to do.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, oh my God, he's on occupied today.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it is true.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's it's one of the great pushes and pulls of our time, but I do think I was talking to someone about this
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: over the weekend that we've essentially been living this life since twenty twelve here twenty thirteen or whatever it is and it's funny to talk to people who it got hit by a truck during covid and they're like oh my god like uh... how do i entertain my kids and then i'm working from home and i was like oh i've been doing this sense oh yeah and now that was felt like a decade now i did that point to a lot of people during covid i'm like yeah working from home sounds great until you actually have to do it
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Until you're watching, you're grinding Dylan Gabriel tape and your your your son is holding up a bag of kinetic sand.
3:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, can you fix this?
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you fix this?
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you fix this?
3:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I also spent the weekend battling with with old folks over chat GBT, which is something I never thought I would be doing, which is fascinating.
4:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody handed me they they spoken to their phone right in article about the Philadelphia Eagles, right?
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And and
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: just terrible article about the Philadelphia Eagles comes out like the lead sentences like the Philadelphia Eagles are hotter than the summer sun and like just terrible cliche ridden copy and he's like, look at this and he's like, that's gonna replace you.
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, no, it's not.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like the worst.
4:27
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the worst writing ever.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, I don't see a problem with it.
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: What's wrong with it?
4:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is terrible.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you guys know the difference between good sports writing and bad sports writing?
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Apparently not.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got some work to do outward.
4:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to educate the people.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not don't take your advice from chat, GBT.
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Our content at SIs is AI proof.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of which, uh, I'm just going to say this.
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's Monday, August, and we're taping this and we got a big show coming up here.
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So stay tuned.
4:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But just a little bit of a programming note here.
5:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Think starting next week, the week before Labor Day weekend, we start rolling out the NFL preview content and the magazine after that.
5:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't even told Albert this yet that I heard Albert's got a bang and running in the magazine after that.
5:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a piece in that too.
5:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So now is the time to lock in your subscriptions for for sports illustrate, duh.
5:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let's stop being on our phones.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's stop being on chat GBT will just mail you the best stuff in in a glossy paper.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can just sit there and fronting your fireplace and put your feet up at night and just immerse yourself in the best world.
5:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's better for your eyes too.
5:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So much better for your eyes.
5:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, this was a big weekend of preseason football.
5:45
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what we
5:46
[SPEAKER_00]: would typically consider the classic week three where I think a lot of times you see the starters go a little bit more or at least starters who weren't going to play just play a little bit and we're going to get to the theme of this show is here's what I missed and we talk about a lot of stuff during the preseason but here's one thing that I didn't really consider
6:08
[SPEAKER_00]: after two weeks of the preseason, that is now going to be something that's just sticking to my car and it's like, oh my god, this is this is possibly going to be a big deal.
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But before that, we got plenty of news here Albert and we're going to run down a couple things first and foremost.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that you know that it's made it to the reports colon stage, you know that it's it's it's I call it the reports colon stage.
6:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you look at the headline, it's reports colon.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, blah, blah, blah, blah.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Tra Hendrix in the Bengals are now listening.
6:38
[SPEAKER_00]: to trade offers up apparently.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my read on the situation where Cincinnati is like, OK, if you really want to go somewhere else, we can start to put this emotion.
6:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say no, I would say this is more the player and the player's agent being a little bit less comfortable with the spot that they're in now knowing that the seat, the start of the season is coming.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: and if he is going to switch teams it's going to have to happen now the cut down is next week right and that's a critical point you know for teams and building the rosters and that's a really important that's a really important date because that's when salary cap issue start to get managed and you know you you you have to be in compliance and
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so like I just just to give everybody the landscape here, I don't know the Bengals wherever not listening to offers on Trey Hendrix.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just going to be really hard to find a team that's willing to give up picks a player because that's going to be part of the equation and a and and and the contract that is going to take to make Trey Hendrix and whole.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, do we want to go over what the problem is here?
7:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we do that, the idea that, because the Bengals were asking for a first round pick for Tray Hendrickson, the only way that I could see this working is if you were at the very, very bottom
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know that you're going to continue to be at the very, very bottom of the draft order where your first round pick is essentially a second round pick.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about the Eagles, the chiefs, the bills, the commanders, the lions, the ravens, maybe the Vikings, the chargers, the Steelers, those teams.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But in most of those cases,
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: those are the meat, those are the strength of the AFC.
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: The Bengals are are hoping to contend for a playoff spot here.
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not gonna trade Trey Hendrix into a contender for a crappy back end of the first round pick.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think any of these teams, especially because that's like, I mean, and I think too often people don't look at the juncture of the calendar.
8:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're trading him in March, that first round pick's gonna help you this year.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You trade him in August, that first round pick's gonna do nothing for you in the here in the now.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And they think they've got a really good team.
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, really, like the basis of their team right now is their offense should be, like, out of this world good.
9:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The day I was there, the ball hit the ground twice.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just telling you, I think the Bengals offense has a chance to be record-breaking this year.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that of that good.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Burrow could wind up being the MVP of the league.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Boomer used to pick the bills.
9:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Forty-not.
9:26
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it like the bills to go to the Super Bowl like nine straight years?
9:28
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the thing?
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really saying that.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you saying that I'm that with the bangles now?
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's me.
9:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm getting to that part of the story, but I'm asking you because you just asked a tiny thing.
9:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was having it.
9:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you wound up being half right.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: However many years in a row was because it would have been like so eighty eight eighty nine ninety ninety one ninety two ninety three ninety four
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank for.
9:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So that would have been seven years in a row that one or the other made up, but they were never in it together.
10:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have, you know, and SI, we, we pay the preseason MVP and and we put it in the preview magazine.
10:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm sitting there and I'm working with Matt and Gilberto, two of our staff writers on this project and
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying it's got to be Joe Burrow because he's going to have to do it himself.
10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: The defense is not going to be very good.
10:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to have to score thirty five points of game.
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't even have a running game.
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to throw for fifty five hundred yards this year.
10:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be insane.
10:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I turned in the the pick and I turned in the project.
10:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So Connor, you picked Joe Burrow to win MVP every year for the last three years.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: He were not allowed to pick Joe Burrow to win MVP again.
10:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I understand the boy who cried wolf thing, but I actually mean it this year.
10:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really, I really, really, really, really, really mean it.
10:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to let you.
10:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the argument for yourself.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the argument for it.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: They've never had noff season like this before.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: like they've never had like what's amazing about what they've done offensively over the last five years is that they never had a normal offseason, two thousand twenty was COVID, twenty one burrows coming off the ACL, twenty two I believe was at the appendicitis here, right?
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty-two was the deep Super Bowl run year.
11:18
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Twenty-one was the Super Bowl run coming off the ACL.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's right.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty-two.
11:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty-two was the appendicitis.
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty-three was the calf.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it was the calf.
11:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then last year was the wrist.
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Plus that's right.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Plus the receiver contract situations.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So they have legitimately never him, Jamar Chase, T. Higgins have legitimately never had a, and I'm going to tease a story that I'm going to do here, but like, they were able to get to stuff much earlier this year than they, than they ever have before.
11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So just think about the context of that.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're able to stay healthy, right?
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: like what they're going to be able to do the offensive line like comes back like really without incident.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got a rookie they're adding and dealing fair child that they really like to the mix.
12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They've never had a pass catching tight end two years in a row since Burroughs been there.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll have that this year with Kaseki Andre Sivis like as somebody that really is earned Joe Burroughs trust.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be out of this world on offense, I think, right?
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just a backup MVP pick.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the premises, if we can just be middle of the pack on defense, right?
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: The old Indianapolis cults, like can you have a defense that can play with a lead?
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And what do you need to play with a lead if you're a defense?
12:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Pass rush, pass rush, pass rush.
12:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why we bring you Robert Mathis thing.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if you can have Trey Hendrickson and Shemar Stewart, if you can get Shemar Stewart going, how much more effective can those guys be if it's twenty to nothing constantly?
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a huge part of the equation here is where they are as a team and how a huge part of their team is going to be, can we just get to the point where we can build a defense that can play with a lead?
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's a lot on Al Golden to do that and to create that.
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the reasons why Zack Taylor really liked Al coming from Notre Dame is that when you're at the college level, you have to be a little bit simpler.
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, you know, are they going to be able to get some of their younger players up and running faster now because they have, you know, a guy who was at the college level the last three years?
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that's, you know, there's a good logic there.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like where their team is, you know, and this should be the type of year that you're all in for.
13:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So why if you're that team, would you trade trade handrics and without getting something back that's going to help you this year?
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like the problem is here's, so here's the problem.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a long way for us getting to the problem.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem isn't the, the, the, the big numbers there.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they are like well into the thirties.
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not close to forty in average per year.
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not the problem.
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is the guarantees.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And for the bangles, this is about precedent, and I think for Hendrix, and this is about pride.
14:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So the bangles have had all these contract rules and precedents, and they broke them to sign Joe Burrow.
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they had the two receivers this off season.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And the nuance to it is they broke their rules again to sign Jamar Chase, but they didn't break them on the Higgins contract.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They essentially treated Chase like he was an exception, the same way they treated Burrell like he was an exception, right?
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Which brings you to the pride part of it if you're trying Hendrickson, right?
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: because you've been asking for this for three years.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You signed your contract with the team and the offseason that was affected by COVID, which was twenty twenty one.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They got you at a press rate two weeks two years and you looked for a market correction.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You got a one year band aid extension.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You went back to them last year.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You tried to get something done.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing happened.
15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They told you you have to wait.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So you wait.
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you've waited really for.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, for for for two out two full off seasons and now into a third off season to try to get this sort of contract that I'll set you up for the rest of your life.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's waited and now like even with the big number, you're putting me in the Higgins bucket because of my age.
15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm this old now because I waited, you know, so there's those sorts of elements that are in play here.
15:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think really the solution is going to have to be the Bengals have to find a way.
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: to middle this and make it look like it's a win for tre, because of the pride element of it.
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so, tre's a little bit of a different guy and I think that part of it, that part of it to me is really, really, really interesting.
15:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, like I think their discomfort with the situation is why this became news over the weekend because the agent side of this is what we have to generate something we have to make something happen.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is now you do it.
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
16:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The truth is that Bengals have been listening for a while.
16:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and, and, and if anybody asks them on what they would, what it would take, it would be, we need a defensive player.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We need picks.
16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you're another team, now you're talking about trading for a thirty-one-year-old past, Russia, who is a great player, right?
16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Thirty-five sacks the last two years.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're another team, are you willing to give up a current defensive player picks?
16:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Which means that's, that's going to be cost-controlled players going forward.
16:41
[SPEAKER_01]: and the contract.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's my thing though, this feels like, what's the perfect example of it?
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like a seafood restaurant where on Friday they're like, hey, fresh halve, check this out and then kind of no one shows up and then on Saturday.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Saturday they're like halbit sandwiches, you know, we'll cover it in cheese with toast to bread.
17:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be great.
17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on Sunday, you still got a lot of halbit and they're like shit.
17:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Halbit soup, you know, we're going to throw it in the soup and now and we're going to sell it for like three bucks instead of twenty one bucks and we're just going to chunk it up and and just hope to God did somebody eat it before we have to throw it away and all the Seagulls eat it.
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: that feels like where we're at.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And for people who don't understand how the sausage is, man, I'm glad you corrected me.
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was more of a team thing where it's like, we're gonna give this one more shot and refresh this, but it sounds like an agent thing because they did get permission to seek a trade a while ago.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, we're just gonna let everybody know.
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we got this sale going on and you should really check it out before the summer's over.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that way, it feels like- I mean, because once you get caught or the reality is, once you get past the cut down, I think
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: these things become harder to do you know what I mean like these things become because at that point you've got your team set you know and I just feel like the discussions that are happening internally with teams right now are like what do we still need right like so we have two preseason games
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We have, you know, basically a full camp.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, everybody sort of goes into regular season mode with their schedule.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is when, like, you know, the coaches and the personnel people are kind of looking at it and saying, what do we still need?
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we still missing?
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is when you would make that trade.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, once you get past the cut down, you're sort of not that you can't make a move, but you kind of like, all right, like, you know, we feel comfortable with where we're at.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just the dynamic changes.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you get past the cocktail, which I think is what next Tuesday or Wednesday is that right?
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I should know this.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure exactly what the day it is.
18:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's Wednesday.
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're right.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, God, he can't play left tackles.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So the giants don't need him or right tackles to the giants don't need him.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's one of those, I just happened to get done watching giants film right before we started taping this.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was
19:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So bothering me.
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think we're going to get to that.
19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.
19:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, I just feel like, I don't know, in a way, this news makes me more hopeful than ever that Tray Hendrickson is a bangle because by going through this exercise, it means that you are on your last gasp as a player before being able to, you know,
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: before being able to just accept the fact that you're not gonna get what you want.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like look, like if this, like let's just say the numbers, thirty eight or thirty nine.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really hard to walk away from that.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like even if there aren't guarantees into the second year.
19:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I think the Bengals have to know that.
19:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of this is knowing the psychology of your player.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do we take our current offer and sweep it in a way where it looks like he won?
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, where doesn't like screw us with the rest of our roster and it doesn't screw our presidents and we can look at like another player on our roster and say with a straight face like no, you know, like this is this is something that like we did for a guy who had thirty five sacks and waited three off seasons, you know, there's got to be a way to figure out
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: where that middle ground is.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to think that they'll get there.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm not certain.
20:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because this thing is so complicated.
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's been unpredictable from the start.
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just a lot to ask another team to be giving up what it's going to take to get him, especially like if we were talking about Mike Parsons here, like that's a guy you can build around for the next five years.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, try Hendrix and I don't think he's at the end.
20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you count on him being there in like twenty eight or twenty because that's what you're talking about when you're talking about the first round pick like that player is still going to be on his rookie deal in twenty twenty eight right you know what I mean like so like that to me is like sort of what makes this this whole thing difficult
21:14
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21:17
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21:30
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21:37
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21:46
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21:50
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21:58
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22:04
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22:09
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22:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's YahooFansy.com slash MMQB.
22:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of things that we can't seem to stop talking about Albert, I watched.
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes when you do this, it's out of curiosity.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And then sometimes when you do it, you're just like, is this actually going to have a tangible impact on the regular season?
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But going back through and watching all Dylan Gabriel's throws and then this ridiculous controversy where
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, oh, there's entertainers and something else out there.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone thought that by saying entertainers, he was taking Shidorah Sanders down a peg.
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: This whole thing is ridiculous.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody cares about the context.
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that saying, like, a lie goes around the world before the truth puts his pants on?
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that where it is?
23:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I screw up those analogies all the time.
23:07
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you nailed that one.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's just to me, like,
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to get to a journalism conversation here, but the lack of like guard rails on any of this crap.
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's insane.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just, it's like no one cares.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, did you use, did you see the, the Micah Parsons thing from over the weekend?
23:26
[SPEAKER_00]: He, they ran for those of you don't know this.
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: They ran an entirely fake quote from a non-existent episode of Micah Parsons podcast saying he wanted to play for the Broncos on the preseason broadcast.
23:39
[SPEAKER_01]: on the broadcast.
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Does anybody have to check this goes back to me the first thing I thought of was like this idea of confirming news, right?
23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so like for me like like when I like and this like for you to like when this and this goes back to like when you're on a beat, right?
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody else breaks the news and then you confirm it and people will like you're just trying to get your name on it and I think that there are some people that are doing it for that reason.
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not why you confirm news.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You confirm news to make sure it's true.
24:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because you don't want to be running around saying, talking about something as if it's true if it's actually not.
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's always on us to make sure that whatever's out there is actually true before we start discussing it.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But at some point, it became, well, as long as I can pin this on somebody else, it's not my problem.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I'm going to take this and run with it and I'm okay to run with it.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is interesting.
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not going to check.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, like the Shidorah thing over the weekend, well, like, you know, that was somebody else who posted that video, like without any context or without what, like a DD Kickabala who was a sideline reporter, like without even including her question.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane.
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, like I have.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I halfway wonder if people even care about what the truth is anymore, which really sucks.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, these conversations turn into what they turn into.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's too bad, too, because like Dylan Gabriel by all accounts is a great kid.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And now this is hung on him, you know?
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he had a knife.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why the way I think has a good relationship with Shidorah.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for all the crap that's been flying around like the climate in that room is pretty good, you know what I mean?
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know.
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think, um, I don't know.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought Dylan Gabriel had a pretty nice preseason game.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to acknowledge the fact that Shidorah was, and I'm not taking him down a peg.
25:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This was a Shidorah start was really good.
25:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not taking him down a peg, but you have Dylan Gabriel playing against
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: the defending world champions, and even if it's the remnants of that defense, I probably like the Eagles to's better than a majority of the Panthers ones at this point.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And Carolina was historically one of the worst defenses in the NFL.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: All that said,
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: did Shidorah look a little smoother?
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but was Shidorah under less direct?
26:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
26:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that there's there's two parts to this thing and I think that Dylan Gabriel looked fine, but to think that it's sane at least right now.
26:23
[SPEAKER_00]: to consider either of those.
26:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the starting quarterback is just incorrect.
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I just, like, yeah, like first of all, Joe Flack was gonna be starting quarterback, right?
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, yeah.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so the pick six got like circulated, like the reality that pick six was that the tight end there didn't get his hands up and there was a miscommunication on the play.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But either way, like I think, which is gonna happen in the preseason by the way, folks.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think like you saw with both players, like good efficient play, I think both showed an ability to operate out there in a simplified version of the offense, which, I mean, is, you know, in both cases, the coaches did stuff to put the guys in position to succeed and they did.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I always look at, see, this is what was so encouraging to me about Caleb's performance on Sunday night, and yes, I know that was against backups.
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I'm trying to look at with young quarterbacks now is what actually is translatable, right?
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to the regular season.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I watched like what I liked about Dylan is almost everything Dylan did was from the pocket.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
27:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like most of what he did was from the pocket.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was done with an efficiency.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I think Sidor showed a lot of that too.
27:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The interesting thing about Sidor's performance is I think maybe his best throw of the night against the Panthers.
27:50
[SPEAKER_01]: came on a play that maybe he didn't handle quite correctly because it showed him going back to his habit of bailing out of the back of the pocket what you saw at Colorado and he's able to get away in that situation but are you able to get away again when you have
28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: TJ Watt chasing you when you have, you know, like, Rhoquan Smith blitzing.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you able to still get away in those sorts of situations?
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think both guys, like, equated themselves pretty well.
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I again, like, I've said this before.
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't like to hear it.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: She door was way behind, even Dylan Gabriel, let alone the two veterans in the room.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He's worked hard to catch up.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's there yet.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dylan Gabriel and all likelihood, like from what I can see, I like looks to me like he's probably going to be a career backup.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, and I, and I really like some of the stuff I see, but like a lot of it just screams Chase Daniel to me, you know, like we're good smart kid, really good football IQ.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Great podcast.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the kind, yeah.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But the kind of guy you want in the room, you know what I mean?
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand Brown's fans saying,
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we, it's transitional year, why are we wasting our time with a forty-year-old quarterback?
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not reality in the NFL.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You have ten other guys in the huddle, and those guys have a season to play, and those guys have careers.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I promise you, the fastest way to lose those other ten guys in the huddle is to not give them the best answer at quarterback.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you get to two in ten or whatever, or three and eight, like, then everything changes, right?
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But beginning of the year, when you've got a brutal six game stretch to open the season.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are going to put a kid in there who is either not ready or not close to what the veteran will give you, your short circling the chance for the other ten guys in that hotel to succeed, both on an individual level and on a team level, and there is no faster way to lose your team than to do that.
30:02
[SPEAKER_00]: One quick point before we get into this massive cover up controversy, Albert, is the fact that we need to normalize the fact that we are not at portion, even us, even the people who go to practices, at portions of practice, every day during the regular season.
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: These things need to be one in front of your teammates.
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect example, Bryce Young last year in Carolina.
30:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know how he got the starting job back by kicking ass on the scout team?
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Day in and day out and that's something that all the older guys see and this isn't just hyperbly.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something where the old guys look around and they say, oh my god, that guy got benched.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He was embarrassed.
30:42
[SPEAKER_00]: he, this has never happened before in his life.
30:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And all he does is go back on scout team and start whipping our behinds and practice every day and making that his life's mission.
30:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go in the boat with that guy.
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That has to happen.
30:57
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no, like Kevin Stefansky's not sitting there saying, OK, we're probably going to go three and ten.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just start shit or Sanders.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure Kevin is open minded to anything.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if Shidorah had had an electric
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Reseason second week start over the Eagles and had bash them over the head and looked even better than he did against the Panthers in week one.
31:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we can start to have that conversation because there's a legitimate ground swell among the players who are thinking, OK, you know, this guy seems to have it.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems to understand the offense.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But until that happens, my guess is in practice, Joe Flacco is is already on the moon and these guys haven't even climbed into the space shuttle yet.
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody can see that.
31:41
[SPEAKER_00]: The player is known.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like best that's reality.
31:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the players know and the players know if you're giving them the best answer.
31:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And like again, if we get to November and the Browns are out of the race and you have to start evaluating your roster.
31:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Then that's a different deal altogether, right.
32:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But going in week one with a guy who isn't the best answer is not something that you can just like if you're a head coach in the NFL, you can't just do that, you know.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: These guys, like the other ten guys in at all, don't care about your long term plan.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't care who your quarterback's going to be in twenty twenty seven.
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: like they want the best guy out there who's going to help put them in the best position to win, you know, who's going to be out there who when like you have like a call that's like a busted call, they're going to be able to change it at the line of scrimmage, so you have a better chance of not getting your head knocked through the running back, you know what I mean?
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just stuff like that that people don't really pay attention to that
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's really, really important.
32:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I personally think like that just watching it like and seeing like just reading the talking to people there and reading the actions of the coaches, they came out of the spring with the decision
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Kenny Pick is the only guy who has a chance of challenging Joe.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And they've run the competition as such.
33:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they've looked at it and said, OK, mentally, you know, Dylan Gabriel could we put him in a game and feel OK with a limited game plan.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably we could probably do that right and I think that that informed the way that the depth chart was set with what was set up where should do or had a little bit longer to go Dylan Gabriel was a guy was in college for six years, right?
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so I think they set it up that way and that's the way the whole thing was structured and Pick it like I think had a shot at making a run at Flacco and then he got hurt, you know, and so I think it's pretty clearly Flacco now and by the way like having seen them practice twice now Joe can still really throw it
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, like, well, age catch up to him as far as his movement, everything else this year will see, but he can still really throw the ball.
34:05
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
34:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The funny thing is people are acting as if like, people are acting as if Shidur is like the most talented guy in the room.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, two veterans were both first-round picks.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Right after after one preseason start against Carolina Panthers people come on but I also understand fans will look at it say well we know what those guys are which is a fairway to look at it if you're a fan.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: All right Albert one more thing that's just kind of interesting to me and.
34:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at your Twitter feed, by the way, before we started the show.
34:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would just direct people there to watch the guy in the Travis Hunter jersey.
34:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Kick the shit out of another guy.
34:54
[SPEAKER_00]: over by the exit of a Caesar super toe.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy fight.
34:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy fan fights way too much.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I do too.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a rare one that happened in like, well, there's not rare because sometimes you see him in the concourse.
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I was going to say it's rare that you see them on level ground, you know, like a lot of times.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They're in the stands.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So generally that the high man has the advantage there, right?
35:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
35:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you get flipped and then thrown down the stairs, which is always, which would be the move, right?
35:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the move for the low man.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So all man would have that would have that advantage of being able to kind of, yeah.
35:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I will just say this.
35:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a guy in a Travis hunter jersey and a much larger guy.
35:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And the guy in the Travis hunter jersey eventually kind of gets him on the ground and then starts punching him in the head and then does the hockey movie pulls the shirt over the head.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the guy gets up to give chase.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he's baseball down, which is right there.
35:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You just got to you got to throw your hands up and you got to say okay.
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm done.
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost.
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a TKO when your pants fall down and then they both slipped.
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I think can beer like two seconds later and they both fell down.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I like how like now like I don't know maybe thirty years ago people would have jumped in and broke it up and instead now everybody is just like holding up their cell phones.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's going to get like a million views sick.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like is that what happens at like if I don't even know if they have fights I don't even know if there are fights I'm like the school yard in middle school or high school now, but is that what happened that must be what happens like in school now, too, right?
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I really think it is which set for these kids because
36:42
[SPEAKER_00]: If you lost a fight in the middle school, if you lost a fight in middle school or high school, there was always that benefit of the doubt where you could say, no, it's not really how it went.
36:54
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys know exactly how it went, which is my takeaway when I watch it because
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like you and I are both runners Albert, and some days, you just, you have a beautiful day in the weather's perfect, and you're really cruising in your role, and yeah.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And you think in your head, you're like, I probably look like Steve Prefontaine right now, like I just look absolutely unbelievable.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you see video of yourself running, no matter how fast it is, you look like you have a thirty-five thousand pound inville tied to your ass, and you're just trying to drag this thing up to street.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: and you look big and you look sweaty and you look like you're heaving.
37:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I imagine those two guys felt like they were UFC fighters.
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were about to digress in my ties.
37:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were just ducking and weaving and ducking and weaving.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What I really enjoy about those situations is the calm before the storm where they're like, you know, like, squaring up.
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And the guy in the Travis under Jersey was smart right away.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he, he sees what's going on here.
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: He throws a punch that other guy throws a punch and then he immediately goes low.
38:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, I'm going to get this guy in the ground because I have a feeling that I'm going to have the advantage at that point in time.
38:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I give him credit for thinking about this in a global perspective from the early thousand feet.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The sweet science.
38:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, truly earned the W there.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing, Albert, this in the news, like I feel like we deserved a more exciting, like this preseason was dominated by a store, it was dominated by Trey Hendrix, and it's dominated by the NFL PA, and it's like this is not like a, this is not your classic off season where there's really something to sink your teeth into, like the James Cook deals done.
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of this stuff has already happened.
38:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Darrell Revis, maybe kind of inch in his way in here.
38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt Schobb is running for NFLPA executive.
38:54
[SPEAKER_00]: The NFLPA feels like it's in Tatters Albert.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this is the way that it is made to look, but to me, again, and people will say who cares who cares who cares, and we won't spend too much time on it, but players not having a backstop for things that they can trust during the course of a regular season is a big deal, full stop period.
39:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that could delay certain things, just as far as what the fans care about, like the eighteen games.
39:23
[SPEAKER_01]: There are certain things that I think the league probably wants to get done, and shoved down the players.
39:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I was probably not going to happen right now.
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been over this before, but I don't know if people notice this.
39:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But the Atlanta Super Bowl, which is at the end of the twenty seven season, doesn't have a date yet.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's very unusual.
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you talk to the Atlanta people, what they will tell you is the league basically made them block the entire month of February off.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We're a hotel convention convention space and it's pissed the people off there because you're holding like a lot of like stuff, you know, to to make all this work, you know, and why would they why would they want that sort of flexibility?
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think they want that flexibility?
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they want that flexibility because that's like the window where they're looking to go to eighteen games.
40:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So they can have that to go to market with when the new broadcast deals are negotiated and the opt-outs are in twenty twenty nine.
40:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are things like the big picture stuff like that that that's going to be affected by the lack of the lack of any sort of, you know, real union leadership.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think it's interesting to see the ex players getting involved because I do, I've felt this way really since the start of this.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know some people who'd be really good candidates, really good candidates that aren't ex players.
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I just after what just happened, do you think it's going to be hard for a guy who's not an ex player to earn the trust of the larger group?
41:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
41:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not unlike a
41:13
[SPEAKER_00]: like it's not unlike a political party revolution where you're just like the way that we were doing this was not working and we got to kick some of these guys out of here and we got to get a new idea and we got to get a new face and we got to get in somebody who's fearless and who's ready to lead and Drell Revis was the poster child for
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: for a fight and got rights tearing up your rookie contract and I mean redoing it and tearing it up again and doing it again and getting paid and he did everything to kind of take that to a different level he affected the twenty eleven cba like there are rules in place like on how soon rookie deals can be renegotiate because revis went to the jets after two years yeah so
42:01
[SPEAKER_01]: There are rules on holdouts, like all of these levers that Revis pulled.
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: the the the league sought to shut those lovers off in large part because Reeves had so much success doing that right you know and so in twenty eleven they put all these rules in place that really is big picture stuff like again like control over workforce and everything else but they put all these rules in place in the eleven cba that were a direct result of the success that Reeves had going on these wildcat strikes
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't think of anybody else that would at least at least lend some instant credibility.
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And you think like, for revis especially the base age of everybody even covering that NFL.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is not a reason to do it.
42:47
[SPEAKER_00]: guys like me and you who came up between that kind of oh six oh seven oh eight uh me in twenty ten eleven through I mean he is an icon in in that realm he is untouchable for people of our age who are kind of your we're in the middle central meat of your NFL consumer base right now
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say like he played that position at the second highest level of anyone of my lifetime behind, like when he was at his best, I'd say only Dion was, was better than him.
43:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there was a point, I'm not saying he should have been MVP at least, but I remember saying this, it was in that like that stretch of oh nine, ten, you know,
43:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there was a stretch where he did his job, played his position at a higher level than anyone else in the NFL played their position.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He was that good a player.
43:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just say in D on so that he won't find this clip and retweet it, make fun of you.
43:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Aren't you?
43:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You're scared, aren't you?
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was a phenomenal player.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He was.
43:54
[SPEAKER_00]: He was amazing.
43:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get to our, I mean, listen, this NFL PA thing is just it's going to be something that exists in the background throughout the regular season.
44:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I I for all I mean at this point societally right like the rock is gonna run for president probably in twenty twenty eight like I'm all for just famous just I don't know I mean at this point when you I mean I guess we can't really anything out can't kill anything out so I don't know I'm all for just like bringing back the legends and be like let's go I mean let's have Darrell Revis and I don't know let's have Darrell Revis and
44:33
[SPEAKER_00]: eight-maning team up and take down the NFL piano.
44:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Just give me something interesting.
44:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to close this out by, you know, you and I each kind of talking about something that we might have overlooked.
44:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We might have missed during the preseason and here's the big thing for me.
44:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And you, I think, nailed it during your training camp.
44:54
[SPEAKER_00]: tour where you didn't think Caleb Williams looked great, but the reason that Caleb Williams didn't look great is because Ben Johnson put it all on him on day one and said, you know, the cliche right is, hey, drink from the fire hose.
45:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we saw him against the bills this past weekend and my immediate, like my, my jaw drop to the floor.
45:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he looked
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: excellent.
45:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was super decisive.
45:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's one thing that we didn't see from him at all.
45:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, granted, the touchdown was a percolian individual effort by ZKS that is probably not going to be a touchdown every single week, right?
45:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That said.
45:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not notice Caleb drifting.
45:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not notice Caleb doing too much.
45:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed that every single play there was a sensible answer for him.
45:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a defense that was manipulated in a way that gave him a throw.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you combine that, and this is, this is what the charges had been trying to find for Justin Herbert for so long.
46:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm happy that Caleb Williams is getting it in year two.
46:03
[SPEAKER_00]: When you combine that with his outlier arm strength,
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you have an offense.
46:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you have something that we're talking about.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, Caleb Williams looked good in the preseason last year.
46:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember saying some of the similar things here, but it didn't look this good.
46:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I'm I guess I'm trying to get at here is what if I overlooked the fact that the bears could be
46:26
[SPEAKER_00]: really freaking good this year, right?
46:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's interesting because again, like I think and and I don't know that anybody was really thrilling down on Jared Goff and twenty one and twenty two the way they were.
46:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The way they had been with Caleb Williams and that they had to find an offense that were for Jared to back then.
46:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jared was a veteran quarterback and my question with then was always.
46:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think to one of Ben's mentors was Adam Gase, right?
46:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And people look at Adam Gase and and laugh now, but he was a really freaking good offense for coach for a long time in the league.
47:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of his downfalls was, you know, when he got to the jets trying to run the Peyton Manning offense for Sam Darnold, right?
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and Sam was just not ready to do that.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think really like the success of Sam Darnold more recently has been
47:22
[SPEAKER_01]: trying to find a way to get him to play fast again, right?
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like get him, find a way to, to, to narrow things down on him and then you build from that base.
47:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my question with, with Ben was he was able to do a lot with Jared Goff as his quarterback into Troy.
47:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So is he going to be able, when, gun to your head, you're in the middle of a game,
47:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're in the middle of a game week, whatever it is, and you've got to put together an offense, you got to call an offense a certain way.
47:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to have the discipline to run the offense as right for Caleb Williams, even if it isn't the full breadth of what you're doing?
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what we saw last night is yes, like he is going to be able to find a way to do that and run the right offense for Caleb because of how fast Caleb was playing.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key to me is, you know, we know like Caleb had a little ways to go, right, like developmentally, how fast is he playing, how fast is the ball out?
48:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like is he moving efficiently in the pocket?
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you didn't see last night was very much of him running around and trying to make something happen.
48:25
[SPEAKER_01]: There was one play where he threw it away out to the sideline, but other than that, like if the ball was out on one hitch, the ball was out on two hitches, the ball, it was just everything looked like it was
48:39
[SPEAKER_01]: looked like it was it was it was within the context of what they were trying to do and he was winning from the pocket and I'll tell you like you put all that together then you look at lovelandle like in lovelandle I think that's another thing is like whoa like you know like you've got commettin lovelin now and that's gonna be a problem for defenses right on top of having a done say and and more and if the offensive line comes together the way they think it could you've already got a pretty good defense I don't know
49:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like you can start, and again, like we have to tamper this by saying, the, yes, the bills were, the bills rolled up a bunch of guys onto the field that aren't gonna be on the field, week one for them on defense, right?
49:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I still say, like there were stuff you saw, Caleb do that I think is translatable to the regular season.
49:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, and again, this is one of those,
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of these difficult spots where you try to battle off the sunnyness of it all, but I mean, I will walk away from this thing and God, Luther Bird looks awesome.
49:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Braxton Jones is going to be fine at left ankle, and I'm all sunny.
49:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it's never going to totally be that way.
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Tyson badge, it looked good, by the way.
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So much, just trade for him.
49:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he could be an NFL starting quarterback.
49:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so could I tie some Bayesian and Tanner McKee or the two guys?
50:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that was the other way.
50:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Like why we and I get I get it that their teams want to hold on to these guys because you want to crack a quarterback.
50:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But both of these guys, I think they're going to end up being I mean, you have to give like I think it's like
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to give real value for a team to walk away from that, especially if they don't have another option that are comfortable with, you know what I mean?
50:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the bears have case canum, so that gives them some flexibility, right?
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
50:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know that.
50:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I am one of those guys now, that is, and it's crazy how we've been fooled by this before.
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I remember the RG three browns offense, right, blew me away.
50:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was one of the worst teams in that I felt history.
50:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, it's like, yeah, Luther Burden looked pretty nasty with the ball on his hands.
50:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this whole team, I'm kind of bought in, and here's the thing.
50:57
[SPEAKER_00]: All I'm saying is,
50:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I sort of wish, I watched him last night.
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I let this creepy to my head.
51:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I sort of wish they wound up with Travy on Henderson to see what that would have looked like.
51:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because they could have probably wound up.
51:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think they took burden after Henderson, right?
51:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think, I think, was he before?
51:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They were right field bustering, and I will keep field bustering, and I will keep it.
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But the idea of Henderson playing like the Jamiric Games role for that offense, then, how fun would that have been, you know?
51:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Travy on Henderson went one pick before.
51:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so maybe they would have, I haven't looked into that, but because I feel like if they had that sort of running back, you know, like that, like what then had in Detroit with with Gibbs, like man, that would be something, you know, but obviously I didn't work out that way.
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, give me yours because I am again.
51:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just did and you could check it out last week came out.
51:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I predicted all two hundred and seventy two games.
51:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the pant bears finish eight nine, which I thought was kind of just a. Let's lay it up on the green pick where I can say, oh, there was progress, but they're not quite a playoff team yet.
52:08
[SPEAKER_00]: The deeper we get into this preseason, I'm like, what if they're going to knock off like the Vikings or what if they're going to knock off the Panthers and.
52:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why this struck me, but struck me when I was having conversations with people in Philly.
52:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I realized.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's this idea out there that they're just running it back in twenty twenty five.
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: after having the conversations I had there, I started to realize they aren't.
52:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's in particular on the defensive side of the ball.
52:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason why I was like, I had that discussion with some people.
52:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, year two of Vic Fangeo's system, like you should be able to
52:51
[SPEAKER_01]: just kind of, like, build off the foundation that you already had.
52:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, as viewers saw me, it's like, well, we really can't do that because we've got so many new guys playing.
53:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you think about it.
53:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, Josh sweats gone.
53:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Milton Williams has gone.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Brandon Graham has gone.
53:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Darius Slay has gone.
53:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Chelsea Gardner Johnson has gone.
53:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even like at linebacker, you know, you've gotten a Kobe Dean is coming back from a really bad knee injury.
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think they think he's going to be back at some point, you know, maybe in the, you know, after a month into the regular season, maybe some point knocked over, but are you getting him back at full strength?
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you could wind up playing a rookie there in G-Hod Campbell who they think the world of, but
53:37
[SPEAKER_01]: you know like I like that's still a new player there.
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So like that was kind of the one for me where I looked at it and I'm like they're replacing a lot on defense and they were really good defensively last year.
53:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now your hope of course is Nolan Smith takes another step up front, J.L.L.X.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Hunt.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You know that promise he showed at the end of last year that really develops into something.
54:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Moro Ojomo is a defensive tackle that everybody should be paying attention to is kind of Milton Williams replacement there.
54:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Campbell was somebody I mentioned.
54:09
[SPEAKER_01]: More to the young safety, Sydney Brown and Makuba, Andrew Makuba look like.
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the corner opposite when you're in Mitchell look like, but I think Mitchell and Jean could take another step, you know, so there's a lot of potential there, but they are like to some degree resetting a little bit defensively.
54:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think too, it's so funny how, every year, the NFL just has this gift of, at the end of the season, we have accumulated all this wisdom.
54:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we just forget it over the course of two months.
54:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like being in high school again.
54:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you just show up a complete blank slate to be amazed again.
54:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Vic Fangio said it a hundred times during Super Bowl week.
54:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I followed the guy around because he's from screen.
54:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Every, every opportunity.
54:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, it took us four, five, six weeks.
54:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It took us four, five, six weeks.
55:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It took us four, five, six weeks to figure out how we wanted to play where these guys belong, where they should go, what their strengths are, and Vick will stand there and he'll sit there and he'll watch film.
55:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And he'll do tendency breakers and he'll go through everything with a pen and a paper, but it takes time.
55:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But once it's good, it's freaking good.
55:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're an Eagle Span, and not to keep bringing it back to the all-tsu-seventy-two list, but I have them going ten and seven this year.
55:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's like, you're high.
55:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something wrong with you.
55:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You're out of your mind.
55:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Not really because this is a different group.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to take them time to figure out what makes this version of them a little bit better.
55:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they will because I have them winning ten games.
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty good.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just one of those things that I feel like we're still not accustomed to the fact that there's going to be a struggle in every single season, right?
55:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be something that's difficult in every single year.
55:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What would it take for what's it going to take for hot seat talk to return for next year, honey.
56:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:05
[SPEAKER_00]: If you finally get a like a like a honey moon here, no well, I think the contract extension helps where you just I think the fans there at least smart enough to know that
56:18
[SPEAKER_00]: nothing probably happens this year, right?
56:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that would be a historically ridiculous change of mind, whether they're just like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, no.
56:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to, we're going to actually move on and go higher bill bell check like we kind of faked like we were doing two years ago.
56:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's going to happen, but man, it's just, it's just, we go into it always.
56:41
[SPEAKER_00]: we're getting like Eagles fans were remember when Nick Seriani shaved his head.
56:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And they played the Browns and he was fighting with the fans.
56:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I loved it.
56:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody else lost their minds.
56:55
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, this guy's out of control.
56:56
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy does know what he's doing.
56:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And three months later, they win the goddamn Super Bowl.
57:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Just let it happen.
57:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just let it happen.
57:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be fine.
57:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
57:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think it's interesting that
57:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I think winning the Super Bowl is obviously the best thing that can happen to someone, but I think it's the best thing that can happen to this collective group of coaches because it just buys you five or six weeks of quiet next year.
57:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Just enough time to get off the ground and to figure yourself out, last year I don't think we can overestimate.
57:30
[SPEAKER_00]: how much heat was on serianne at that or two and two yeah two and two yeah yeah two and two didn't look right didn't look great and they were in the midst of a massive offensive transition a massive defense of transition
57:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, you know, takes time, takes time for this stuff to click, but we're not going to give it to them.
57:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
57:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Siri, I only had a story to me.
57:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually really interesting.
57:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was, I was with him last week and, you know, he told me this story about, he took me through all the guys that he had talked.
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I've mentioned this to you, but like, Gino or EMJ, right?
58:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy Johnson, Peyton Manning, like he talked to all these guys about coming off of a championship.
58:13
[SPEAKER_01]: and his college coach actually brought his college coach and I'm like, oh crap, like he would have had more, he would have had more experience with this than anybody, you know, a mountain union, which they want to zillion national titles.
58:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I looked it up and I realized that Nick Seriani's first loss as a college player was in his final college game.
58:35
[SPEAKER_01]: He was fifty-five and a, and they lost in the national championship game a senior year after winning three straight national titles.
58:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, like, it kind of like, I think, you know, so he told me, he said, like, you know, I, I, one of the, the first call I made was to literary care as his college coach and to talk about coming off of a championship.
58:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really interesting this, the, the anecdote that, that Nick gave me was,
59:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Larry Harris brought up the ninety seven ninety eight teams at Mount Union and the ninety seven teams set a national record for scoring right both teams won the national title the ninety seven team like scored over fifty points again
59:18
[SPEAKER_01]: and basically graduated everybody.
59:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the ninety-eight team, like early in the year, had to win with defense.
59:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And like Nick said it was like really the lesson there was, you're gonna have to win, like there's it's not the same team, you're gonna have to win a different way.
59:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that was really interesting because again, I think Nick's telling that story for a reason that early in the year maybe it has to look a little bit different than it has and maybe this year that means they have to outscore teams early on.
59:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because they are breaking in so many new starters and so many new key contributors on defense, whereas on offense, outside of Mackay Beckton, and we'll see Linda Dickerson's timeline, but like they have to replace Mackay Beckton, but they have Tylerstein who's been in the system.
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Outside of that, like, they're sort of status quo coming back on offense.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing.
1:00:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that at the end of the day,
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Billy is the only sensible Super Bowl pick coming out of the NFC that doesn't cause my head to explode and that doesn't cause me to come back with some sort of retort.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying it's the only sensible one.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I did.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a Bill's Eagles Super Bowl on the market.
1:00:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_00]: it just goes to show that even then there is just this undercurrent of of change and everything that needs to get mixed up and and and fangeos going to have to do it again and Kevin Betulo is going to have to come in and do it and Jalen hurt and you're going to need AJ Brown to come back and yes you're going to have to outscore people but you're going to have AJ Brown is hurt and you're going to have to ask him to come back and say hey can you block like a champion again you know hey Devont Smith can you can you run routes as a decoy as a champion again like you did last year
1:01:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you all display your inner excellence, right?
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean without like delving too much into that and like being this turning into like a self-help podcast, I do think that there's that like I've always felt like that that's the I think it was Pat Riley the disease of me, right?
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was what it would have become which is like the the the logic is like that's there's this pie and everybody had a certain piece of the pie that
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_01]: led to winning a championship.
1:01:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, because everybody felt like they were a big part of winning that championship, everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie.
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, but there's not enough of that pie to go around.
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you manage that?
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's an interesting question.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's always plenty of pie for you guys here on the MMQB podcast, and we will be back with another episode this week as we coast into the preseason finale.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank God, I am so ready.
1:02:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so ready for the start of the NFL season.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_00]: and just to get into that routine, and to just have all this stuff mean something, and to not be guessing as to whether, you know, it's an important shooter standard starter.
1:02:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not an important shooter standard start, whether the Browns are really trying to, hey, well, wait a minute, we're gonna find out in two weeks, and then we're gonna know.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be great.
1:02:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna be complaining about the, the playing surface and south, south power.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, baby.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_01]: No time, no time.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Get ready down there.
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Agricultural specialists in South Carolina.
1:02:50
[SPEAKER_00]: They're healthy chiefs and chargers.
1:02:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe find a hotel room near the stadium.