Latest / Ready To Drink Podcast / Craft Beer Needs Its Story Back | Marty Nachel, Beer Author & Founder of the American Craft Beer Hall of Fame

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Craft Beer Needs Its Story Back | Marty Nachel, Beer Author & Founder of the American Craft Beer Hall of Fame · Ready To Drink Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Marty Nachel.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in the business forty odd years, and my current focus is on the American Craft Bear Hall of Fame.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent, excellent.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And is this uh, Marty, is this something that is a physical location at the moment, or is this something that's in preparations to be constructed?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is strictly an online pursuit at the moment.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We do have long-term plans for it to be a uh brick and mortar, but we're we're years away from that.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just want to get the audience there and and give a little background of your history because I've known I don't, again, we don't know each other personally, just for the audience to know.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I mentioned before camera that we may have crossed paths at a conference once 10 to 15 years ago.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: But tell me and and the audience a little bit about your history in the industry and kind of take us back to the beginning and what got you excited and interested in the beer industry.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, tell me how many minutes we want to burn up here.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're good.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: We got 58 minutes.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're good.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, like I mentioned, uh I've been in and around the industry for about 40 years.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I started like many other people as a home brewer.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's where my interest took me back in 1985.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And because I was a home brewer and I was submitting my beers to competitions, I realized that there was a need for beer judges.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now that just happened to coincide with the creation of the BJCP beer judge certification program.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I did take that test in 1986.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was one of the first 70 people in North America to become certified, first in the state of Illinois, ding.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so yeah, that that got me some traction.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I also took interest in writing as a freelancer.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Beer publications were just starting to come around at that point in time, and I realized that there weren't enough uh people to actually fill the need.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, as a freelancer, I submitted my works to various publications, newsletters, magazines, whatever the case, which was before internet, so there was there were no blogs.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh I started that in about 1987.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Several years later, I wrote my first book in 1995.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was called Beer Across America.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: That led to Beer for Dummies, which led to homebrewing for dummies, and those were published traditionally speaking.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've since gone on to do some self-publishing in the in more recent years, especially throughout COVID.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, I continued my journey as a beer judge.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated from just a homebrew judge to a professional judge.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I began judging at uh Great American Beer Festival and World Beer Cup here in the United States.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2017, I did my first stint as an international beer judge in Santiago, Chile.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, that's led to many other opportunities in in other countries and other continents.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of brings us up to today.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, I remember when I got in when I got really deep into the industry, I was 19 years old.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: That would have been 2004, is when I got into the industry.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I worked with uh Miller Corps' house in uh in uh in Philadelphia and went then eventually years later, started running the craft beer division for another place in Philadelphia, another wholesaler, and managed about 30, 40 brands.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And your books were always on my desk.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to, I want there's many fo I'll have to find the old photos, but it was it was uh right in the beginning days of social media, I had I would buy every single book that ever came out, uh, and then I would give them, I would had a library basically at my desk, and my sales reps would rent the books for me and they would and they would take them when they needed.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: They used them for Cicero training.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We were very much, my job was to come in and take a very old school traditional beer wholesaler and convert them in 2010 to 2017 into craft beer and get them educated.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I worked with Ray Daniels on the Cicero program and a few other things trying to get everybody on board.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to tell you, like publicly, I think a lot of times in in this writing world and these books and and all this stuff, the the author of those things tends to be on the backside of what the actual content is.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I was super excited when you responded that you were willing to talk to me today because of the fact that your books have been an inspiration for me and an educational piece for my, not just myself, but accelerating others to get them up to speed.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we're in a different state in 2026 than we were back then with craft beer.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're not really educating as much as we are, you know, kind of telling the stories and things like that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I want the audience to know, especially the younger audience, to know that these books, these tangible documents with pages that, you know, aren't digital or digitalized now, but at the time were not.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mine are full of annotations of post-it notes of all your work.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I got it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm the uh I take the academic route when I read that stuff.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank you publicly for the work you put in because you did it prior to when it was popular.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I know for a fact that yes, it was mass-scaled and everything like that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure there was times where you really had to, you you were taking a lot of chances on spending dedicating that much time for the greater good of the movement.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I wanted to publicly really like uh acknowledge you for that work you put in way back then and still what you are doing today.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So well, thank you very much.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's very gratifying to hear.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm glad to know that it maybe I somewhere down the line uh my my publications were of of uh help to somebody somewhere.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: But we all stand on the shoulders of giants.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there were uh writers.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: My mentor was Michael Jackson.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I bought and read every one of his books, and that was my inspiration to kind of do what he was doing.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but though he did it much better and reached a far greater audience, but he was my inspiration, and I'm glad that he was there for me and others, along with you know, there were other writers as well, Fred Eckert and uh others.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know, we all we all have someone to look back on and thanks.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I really enjoy, and I might go back to them.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I enjoyed those beer hunters uh when I caught all those when they first put them all up on YouTube, and I got to catch up on I didn't get to meet at Michael, but I got to catch up on that legacy digitally and through his writing and stuff.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh it's good to know that that's being the torch is getting carried on through you.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now talk a little bit about for anybody that our uh podcast is about the gener is about the entire beverage industry, and we do feature segments like this.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: For anybody that's not in the craft beer world, let's talk a little bit about your intentions of the Hall of Fame as well as what it means to be a judge, because I think not every industry within beverage has competitions and things like that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So Right.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: With regards to the Kraft Beer Hall of Fame, back in November-ish of 2023, you know, I I my mind is always firing.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always looking for something new, something interesting.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm officially retired, but I am very, very busy because I'm always looking for something to do.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, in late 23, it just I don't know why, it just popped into my head that I wonder where there's a a a a craft beer hall of fame or even a beer hall of fame.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't think of any.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when I got back to my computer, I I did a whole bunch of Google searches and I was actually shocked to find out that there wasn't one, that nobody had done this.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, my God, this is this is an opportunity waiting to happen.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I what I did from that is I contacted a bunch of people.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I have a a fairly good range of contacts in the industry from the many years prior.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I contacted a whole bunch of people, probably like three dozen people that I knew, and I said, Hey, do you know of anything like this?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that I'm missing?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Have I missed it?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they all got back to me and said, No, we've not seen or heard of anything either.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, I got back to just a couple more uh specific people and I said, Hey, look, if if I approached you with a more solid c concept of what this should be, would you want to participate?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Would you want to even head it up?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they were all like, Cool idea, but no, it's yours.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I I guess several months later it occurred to me that look, if this is going to happen, I need to take the bull by the horns.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's essentially what I did.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So in about March, April, May, somewhere in there of 24, I actually did incorporate the American Crafter Hall of Fame and I brought some people on board to participate as our in our board of directors.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: We have since put together a board of advisors and a board of electors.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: We have about a hundred people behind the scenes in this in this venture.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: It is a non-for-profit.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make that clear.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is nobody's making money on this.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: We are all volunteering our time.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um to be more specific, to answer your question more specifically, I'm actually going to read our motto to give people what we're all about.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: The American Craft Beer Hall of Fame exists to preserve and celebrate the history of craft beer in the United States by honoring the people who built it, championed it, and ensure its continued growth.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: The hall is to ensure that the memories of your contributions and achievements will not fade with time.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's essentially what our goal is.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're all about.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're now two years in.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've had two full inductions, and uh we are very soon to begin working on our third induction for 2027.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: What what what do you think it is about this industry that has drawn you in so deeply?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's more than just you're selling products to retail, helping out brewers, doing, you know, you're really you're you're you're more wide and from a macro level than that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you think is the big drive that's kind of make made you kind of go that far and that deep into this?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, going back to when I first got into it in the mid-80s thereabouts, uh it it gave me, I hate to say this, uh, it gave me like purpose, it gave me goals, but in in pursuing those goals, I got to meet a lot of very cool people.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard it said that is it okay to use uh professional words there.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody, somebody along the line said that the craft beer industry is 99% asshole free.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was Sam Calligone or one of the could very well be.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Could very well be.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and perfect coming for him.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I found it personally to be true.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've met a lot of very cool people, people I enjoy being with, people I enjoy associating with professionally and personally.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I enjoy being so much a part of the industry that I want to give back what I can.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know so many people have put a lot of their time, efforts, investments, everything on the line for what they do, making uh creating these breweries and these beers so that we might all enjoy them.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just want to support them in in any way I can, specifically with the hall now.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're in direct alignment because one of the things that people get so confused about is when I quit drinking three and a half years ago, they're like, why the hell did you stay in it?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it and it it has its moments where, you know, I feel a little FOMO or if you're, you know, I miss out on some things.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I found my new niche, and that's what we're doing right now.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's my purpose and my cause is uh is to take the lane that isn't being taken, and it it's to tell the stories.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something where I'm able to control my my lifestyle with telling these stories, but also give back to something that meant so much to me.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the irony is I started in the industry prior to being able to be legal drinking age, so why not why not go in the tail end of my life of uh of that?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh but I appreciate and I respect what you're doing, and I I I wanted to connect with you on that part because there's some people that are in this for the business, and that's a piece of it.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's a piece of it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a there's an emotional, intimate connection with certain people in this industry that will literally run through walls for this industry.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do pride myself as being one of those, and I definitely have seen you over the years as being that person as well, leading the charge.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, people like yourself and Ken Grossman and Garrett Oliver and all these guys that I remember meeting, I have videos on my YouTube channel, me interviewing that and in back in Kraft Brewers conferences after the judging and everything like that.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I think a lot of times we get lost in that part where the the indirect mentorship that goes on, I guess is what I'm gonna try to say.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And people like yourself that are broadcasting your voice and your opinion and your perspective, how it really does affect those around them and how it does inspire those.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So is that something that ever you feared at any point during it where you're like, am I being too loud?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Am I being too vocal at different points, or was it always just yeah, was it always just going?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm asking actually selfishly for everybody to know for myself, because there's moments where I speak by opinion and it might be by it might be polarizing, and I kind of get a little nervous when it's out in the ether sometimes, you know?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever been too loud.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think I could be louder.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I try not to necessarily insert myself, you know, in terms of opinions.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I try to amplify the industry, I try to amplify the people in the industry.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm especially concerned right now because of what the damage that was done by COVID and now post-COVID, the industry is suffering.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're losing breweries left and right, we're losing sales.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping that at least a portion of the Hall of Fame and the other projects I'm involved with will somehow help keep things together and move things forward.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just a small cog in the wheel, I but I'm hoping I want to do my part.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hoping that somewhere along the line we we we will all realize that it was worth it, that it did achieve what it was meant to achieve.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you see the industry going in the next couple of years?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously there's a with all the different categories kind of intersecting here, and obviously we all look at the data every day and we see kind of what it looks like, and and when you pull the layers back of the onion, it's a million things that are affecting it, as well as I mean, COVID was definitely the stalling point.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But between GLP ones and and all the other categories that are being out there, um, you know, where do you see the industry going and and kind of what is your vision for the next couple years of where things are?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously I don't have a crystal ball, so this is strictly hypothetical on my part.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think that parallel to many other things, I think it's going to be cyclical.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna continue to see a couple more years in a downturn uh or or flat, hopefully.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we at this point we'll settle for flat, but I really do believe that at some point in time, it may be five years, it may even be ten years.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if it's gonna be in my lifetime, but I do think it's all going to come back around again.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It may take I hate to say this, but it might take the the generation that's not yet of drinking age to realize, hey, this this craft beer thing is pretty cool, especially if they get to delve into the history, which is really where I'm planting my flag.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think when more people understand where we came from, what we were up against 40, 50 years ago when Anheuser, Busch and Miller was the best we had.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: A craft beer was the antidote to that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And people today growing up having all these choices don't realize where we were.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping at some point in time people will see that and say, wow, you know, that was cool.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: They did a they did a great thing, and and I want to be a part of it now.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I agree with you completely, actually.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And even just taking like a 10 or 20 year cycle, I mean, you look at, let's say, 25 years ago, you know, we were still seeing Miller Light ads on the television that had the bitter beer face that were scaring people from hops.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that wasn't long ago.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we just celebrated, you know, different things in the past 25 years and 20 years and 15 years.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And in in my lifetime, that was it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was a I was a middle school, high school kid, and seeing that that on television, it honestly at that age, the craziest part is at that age, that did affect me.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like it did, it did make me think beer was weird.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember I'm very open that I was sneaking beers when I was in high school and middle school and stuff like that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't like the beer.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was just doing it because it was cool.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like a couple years later at 19 to end up in the industry was just funny.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so then it and then that's when the whole industry changed for me, just like you just said, where it was about the people and the product was just a vessel to the human connection.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the biggest things that I try to drive through.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit about that too.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: While the industry is declining, it's not declining forever, and it's going to bounce back because of exactly what you're saying: the drive, the ambition, the creativity that exists within this industry.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And even for my own experience as a sales rep in 20, you know, 2005 to around that time, I tell this story a lot.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's people realize today we got laughed out of ours as bringing craft beer in cans because they were like, well, that's supposed to be in a 12-ounce bottle.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like cans or paps blue ribbon.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not paying that price for a can.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: They don't think about it, like it's like it's not the given that it was today to carry craft beer and stuff.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of the lessons from then that maybe could apply also to today about perseverance, maybe and resilience?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're seeing a whole lot of resilience and perseverance right now with the craft brewers who who are hanging on by a thread, who are hanging on by their nails.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have to be, they have to be really resourceful.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have to be crafty, no pun intended.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: They they have to think of all new ways to try and get people to to still support them and buy their product and and find them amidst the hundreds of brands that still exist.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I I wish I had a better answer.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had uh ideas for these folks.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, they're they're they're scratching and clawing their way through, and I just hope enough of them are able to hang on until this thing turns around.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh it's one of those things that I I still I still during the day this is a this is one piece of our business, but the research stuff is market development, like I was saying, selling into retail.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm still spending every day in a bar, in either a bar, a brewery, winery, distillery, et cetera, with different products we sell.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And every month the visceral drain is happening more and more with some of these guys and girls.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I wish so much that we that there was a uh a simple switch that could be flipped.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think like it's what you just said in the beginning, though.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's people need to get their story out there more so that the audience understands what they're going through.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think right now we look at things at a macro level and we see beers doing this and big beer and all this.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean big beer in a in a labeling way, but as much as like the volume of what it is.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people realize the brewery down the street how much they're hurting, or the brewery that was just wholesale and didn't have a tasting room to to bank on to like pivot their business right now.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those are the some of the the power grabs and the suctions of influence that are kind of affecting things.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what would you what would you kind of talk to the audience that maybe they're not in the industry and they're on some other industry to let them know what is going on right now and and some of the the hurdles that that brewers are facing?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting uh just a minute ago, you said something about them telling their story.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that made craft breweries unique and interesting is that most of them came out of the gate with a story.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I started out as a home brewer making five gallons on my mother's stove, something like that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that was fun and interesting at the time, but now things that the industry has matured.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: These in these breweries have been around five and ten years, fifteen years, whatever, but they still have a story.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: That that story doesn't go away, it didn't change.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that would be at least a part of the solution is for them to get back to the storytelling part.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think that a lot of them are so hyper focused on the future that they're forgetting past.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's not a cure-all, it's it's not gonna fix everything, but it I think it can help.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think the story has always been an integral part about what made the industry cool and interesting.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they need to get back to that, at least to some degree.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I fully agree.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just uh we just launched a local, we have the local one as well as the this one that we do remotely.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And now in Pennsylvania, we do ready to drink local, where we try, I go around to different bars and breweries and stuff like that and talk about the industry because that's exactly it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not industry-wide conversations and stories, it's the actual story of what it is and bringing it back through.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate you.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good validation for what we're trying to do here.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's get these stories out here and start raising the awareness because also we want to raise the foot traffic.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people have gotten used to buying their beer at the grocery store, the convenience store, which nothing is wrong with that.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And nothing is wrong with buying at the liquor store.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's another piece where even for me, like it still brings me joy to walk into a brewery today and smell the malt, smell everything going through, and like it takes me back to not a, I don't want anybody that follows my sobriety and think that takes me back to that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm saying.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: It brings me back to the joy of the camaraderie of the industry.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it brings that that smell for me, just like the neurogastronomy that we all learned and and and read through your books and everybody tasting beer and all these other books as well.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a memory and it's a core memory that you choose whether it's a negative or a positive.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think more people need to be getting out and getting more social because let's talk a little bit about the history.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that's one thing.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know you you touched on the history.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Give a little history about how important a tavern, pub, a congregation, and organic conversations has played into our society over the years.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, when you say over the years, we could go back hundreds of years.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And go go that far so the audience gets that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: The local tavern, well, here's here's a little uh anecdote that I heard.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: When uh let's say, for instance, when America was discovered by the Europeans, waves of these immigrants were coming and creating their own little towns and cities everywhere.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing that went up was personal dwellings.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, they needed a place, a roof over their head.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: The second place that was built was the church, because that's what brought all the people together.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: The third thing that was built was the tavern.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the politics of the town took place.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when you know, people would gather on Sunday mornings at the church, but they gathered just about every other hour of the week at the tavern.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's where everyone was social, that's where everyone gathered for for whatever reason, whether they were positive or negative, you know, fighting a revolution, whatever the case may be.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But that was the gathering place, and they gathered over a beverage.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've heard it said over and over again.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm sure the saying is uh very old, but uh beer is a social lubricant, and I lean on that heavily.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've always believed it is and was and still is.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think wherever people People get together, especially over beer.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: That makes it a special occasion.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, for all the breweries out there with tap rooms, that's that's so important, I think, to their business.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not just from a dollars and cents point of view, but it brings people together, it creates family.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Just about two months ago here in Chicago, uh CBP craft beer professionals had one of their regional I forget what they call it, but it took place here in Chicago, and I was invited to give a short talk, which I did.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the thrust of my talk was get back to what used to be.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, lean into legacy.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I I listed a litany of I had a long list of things that brewers used to do.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, do those things.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not every single thing on the list is going to work for you, but pick one of the 30 or so that I provided and and you know, make that work for you in your particular instance.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if any of them did or will, but I hope I gave some kind of reference point for some of these folks that you know, little things like like we talked about just a second ago, that the the the local brew house or tavern was the gathering place for people.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Make it that way.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Give people a reason to come to your brewery, not to just not just to drink your beer or eat the food, but but to host educational events.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even simple things like bingo and and trivia, which is big, trivia has done a lot, I think, for a lot of breweries, but but lean heavily into that kind of stuff.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: The things that bring people together, I think that's what they need more of.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you treat your customer like family, then they will treat you like family.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: They will support you in a in a bigger way.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when you can get people who who don't know each other to come together on a regular basis and and you know, even share the space, even though they may not necessarily have conversation, but they are sharing space, they are sharing something interesting and fun, which is the beer itself.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what this industry needs, and and hopefully that's gonna what's gonna carry them through.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's I like that because I I tell people a lot of times that the beer industry will be saved with continually producing good beer and bringing people back together.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's really what it's but also I feel like sometimes I don't know if it's uh to be very vulnerably raw with you.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes I feel like the amount of events decreased, and now we have to like dig ourselves out of this like mentality where it's like, oh, that was pre-COVID.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I hear a lot of people that are like, well, we just don't get the foot traffic we do anymore.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I look at the boards that used to be full of events and used to be full of bands, and I'm like, but you're not, but you're not bringing you're not doing things either to bring people in.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think it's a it's a responsibility of the breweries to understand that you got to do a little bit more to be different now.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you are relying in your chap room, you're not just competing against other breweries, you're competing against other every restaurant, every, you know, now that in and in order to do that, you can't participate the same way that they do.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: You have to go back to what made us unique before COVID.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because yes, everybody wants to say that it died at COVID and it did.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But also, I think sometimes our formatting of how we went to market also changed.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we also we need to pivot back to that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate you sending them historical things and being like, like I think about, you know, uh when I was managing like those brands, I mean, we did 2,000 tastings a year.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: We had 52 sampling reps, we did beer school programs where we did these big dinners, like five course, four-course dinners.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I sat there for two hours.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: We did ancient ale, we did lager dinners, we did, and they were so well attended and they built such a following.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that was all up until about 2017.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the COVID didn't affect that.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: That was funny enough, that was when distributors shifted from being brand builders to just being distributors.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then the entire program that I ran for seven years was like, we don't want to do this anymore.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to deliver beer.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that wasn't the brewer's fault.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was the distributor changing their model at that time in 2018 and 2017.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we need to get back to that.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need to get back to the dinners that get the parents, a dinner that makes a parent want to get a babysitter.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it and that's what it is.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean get the kids out of the breweries.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean where mom and dad really do want to go out for a date night and learn something and engage with other people.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we we did lose a little sight of that, but we still can, we still can definitely get back to that.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, so what are kind of in closing out here, too, what are some of the ways that that the the platform in our audience can help you with the Hall of Fame?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for, are you guys in the position now where you're accepting donations now that you have this volunteer lineup that you have to get funding?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of how can people engage with the Craft Beer Hall of Fame?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I really appreciate your bringing this up uh because we are, like I said, we are a nonprofit, 5013c, and we are in a position to accept donations.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: We do, if you go to the website, which if you don't mind, uh www.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: American Craft Beer Hall of Fame.com, all one word.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: We do have some bigger commercial supporters, and you will see their logos on our website right there on the landing page.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, as much as we have their support and we appreciate their support, it's still not a lot.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we are about to launch something that we call hall monitors, which like uh just like the uh the the term, we are we want to go out, we want to reach out to the little guys, the the the not so deep pockets, the the people who, you know, uh one dollar, five dollars, ten dollars, whatever to support this program.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the money is spent to just keep our website going, to pay for our IT person, to uh pay for the awards that we give out, things like that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we don't nobody takes a salary, nobody has paid a penny for their service, and so uh we're hoping to do more things in the future.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, brick and mortars is somewhere out there waiting for us, but that's years away.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: But for the time being, you know, we want to get the the the the you know Joe drinker, we want to get them involved in some way.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one way we can do it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't uh I don't envy you at all when you do have the funds to do the brick and mortar with the fight that'll happen to see where it's located.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's already started.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say I have a quick interesting story.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I said, we're not even anywhere, we're years away from even thinking about a brick and mortar.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: However, a person who's he's uh an investor in Anchorage, Alaska contacted us about four or five months ago and said, I just learned about you guys.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: We are putting together this huge property in downtown Anchorage, it's like a two-block square thing, it's a development.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, We would love to put in your Hall of Fame with museum in this space.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: We will give it to you.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to, you know, uh agree to play along with us and make this happen.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he sent us a 16-page prospectus and everything, and it was really well thought out and it was really inviting, but Anchorage, Alaska, man, that's that's tough.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hike, that's a hike for sure.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a hike for sure.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta it's uh it has to be a place that obviously has the culture but also has accessibility for the everyday person.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's definitely because that would defeat the whole purpose of what you're doing, you know, if everybody couldn't access it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I are is there uh selfishly, I want to know, is there uh is there a book in the works in the future of your life looking back before?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Are you asking in terms of a biography?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I would I'm I'm serious.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, between your books and your industry work, like I don't mean a tell-all book, but I mean a journey of your life in the beer industry.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be a very fascinating piece of literature.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, I've I'd be lying if I didn't think if I didn't if I said that I wasn't thinking about it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have thought about it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's not there yet.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: However, having asked the question, I would like to just quickly mention that last year I spent the the vast majority of my year, about eight months worth, working on a project, literally called the Beer Story Project.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're aware of it, but basically what this is, it's a compendium of stories.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I reached out to over a hundred people in the industry and said, Look, I would like to put together this book of nothing but your stories.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't make it happen without you guys sending me your stories.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually got a little over about 103, 104 people actually submitted their stories.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and of course, I interject with my stories as well, my experiences, and it turned out quite well.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy with it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so much so that I'm working on another one right now.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is a little bit more specific.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: This has to do with beer judge stories.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, it's those people who spend time at a beer judging table and socializing thereafter.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I will be interjecting my own experiences into that book, but it's you know what I've contributed is is just a fraction of what the bigger book is all about.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's how I'm doing that right now.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I will not count out the possibility that I'll do something more focused in the future.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um I love that though.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're quilting together every that's really awesome.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really awesome.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh I've been toying with something similar in uh the sense that I have 300 interviews now completed now with uh with this, and and I I've had a lot of people reach out and just be like, when's the book coming?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I've never done it before, I've never thought about it before, but it does, it seems like a missed opportunity when you when there are such a volume of I have a library of of stories that are here now.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh I'll have to give you a call to know uh where to even get this started on putting it all together.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I would be more than happy to help.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I'm I'm looking forward to hearing the stories myself.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent, excellent, Marty.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, Marty, I just I have to thank you so much.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're a truly humble guy, and I want the audience to know that you're a way bigger deal than you present yourself out to be.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it it could be the nerd in me of of the industry, but I just want to thank you for gracing me with your time today and your story.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really looking forward to editing this and and starting a coup some more conversations with you down the road as as things kind of progress and advance.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And anything I can do to platform your work, whether it be through the Hall of Fame or the books, please don't hesitate to let me know.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to be a vessel to amplify your voice and what you're trying to put out there.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Nate.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's very humbling.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate the kind words and the support.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for having me on today.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed this and hope maybe we'll talk some more.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: We definitely will.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: We definitely will.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, real quick, uh, anywhere for anybody to follow you on social media, I know we gave out the website for the Hall of Fame, but you personally, anything Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, kind of where to find you?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm on all three of those, as a matter of fact.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Those are my three main uh points of contact with the social world.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, uh thank you so much.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to I want to close out here real quick uh with I do with a with a five-minute challenge to everybody.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and Marty, I want to thank you also and also remind everybody that there were no questions in advance.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: There was no prep.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Marty and I did not have a meeting prior.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank you for the courage because aside from what you've done in the industry, it doesn't matter the courage of coming on something, not knowing what I'm gonna ask.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2026, people, you know, some people are click-bait and everything like that.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell I'm not, but you didn't know that.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the things where you took the chance and you trusted me with your story.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to thank you and publicly about that.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to engage everybody with my five-minute challenge in the audience.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's five minutes of kindness to a stranger.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Every episode, I'm gonna nail this for you guys.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: 20 minutes a month.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about beverages and ROI and business, and it's all fun and games.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it is really important that every single week you spend five minutes being kind to a stranger.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: That means walking down the street, putting your phone in your pocket, look at the stranger while they're walking by, engage, ask them how they're doing, read the body language, don't push it too far.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're at the coffee shop, you're at the gas station filling up that cup of coffee, fumbling around with the coffee and the creamer.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Ask the person next to you how they're doing and how their day's going.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Shut your mouth and listen to their story.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: This world is a beautifully destructive place.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: You might be listening to this show and you have everything lined up for you, and most of you do, because you're you have the time and you have the privilege and the to listen to a show and take time out of your day.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to tell you all, we have a responsibility to be good to other people, be kind out there, shock the world with your kindness.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: 20 minutes a month is gonna change some multiple people's lives.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the goal here with this show is we're telling stories, but it's all about human connection.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just like we said, let the tavern solution be at the coffee shop.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take that everywhere.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Bring human connection to every aspect of your life, and let's raise out that awareness of posity.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, Marty, thank you for contributing your piece today and putting that positivity out there and telling other people's stories.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: That is a very excellent thing that you're doing.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I I look forward to to talking with you more down the road.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, and I really appreciate what you just said.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Shock people with kindness.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Marty.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you have a good rest of your day, Marty.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be I'll be in touch soon with the with everything in the transcript and all that stuff.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, have a great day, Marty.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, you too.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers.