Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 51. Kathrine Switzer, Running Icon

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51. Kathrine Switzer, Running Icon · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: I'm feeling all sorts of nostalgic and pretty excited right
0:05
Speaker 1: now because today's episode of Hurdle, episode fifty one is
0:09
Speaker 1: pretty special. My name's Emily Badi. You are listening to Hurdle,
0:14
Speaker 1: a podcast that talks to everyone from entrepreneurs to CEOs
0:18
Speaker 1: and athletes about how they got through tough times hurdles
0:21
Speaker 1: of sorts, by leaning into wellness. Today's episode is with
0:26
Speaker 1: the one, the only Catherine Switzer, and if you've never
0:30
Speaker 1: heard her name, your mind's about to be blown because
0:33
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, she became the first woman to
0:37
Speaker 1: complete the all male race of the Boston Marathon as
0:41
Speaker 1: an official entrant, which makes today's episode pretty appropriate because
0:46
Speaker 1: unless you've been living under a rock, you know that today,
0:48
Speaker 1: April fifteenth, is the Boston Marathon. I am so amped
0:53
Speaker 1: for this. Before I give you some deats on Catherine,
0:57
Speaker 1: a quick shout out to my sponsor, Athletic Greens with
1:00
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Speaker 1: listeners a special deal it's twenty free travel packs a
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1:19
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Speaker 1: dot com slash hurdle to claim it. No code necessary again,
1:29
Speaker 1: that's Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle. All right, now, let's
1:35
Speaker 1: talk about Catherine. Let me tell you when I started
1:37
Speaker 1: the podcast at the end of twenty seventeen, I was
1:40
Speaker 1: just about to start training for Boston, and when the
1:43
Speaker 1: time came for me to run the race, I was
1:45
Speaker 1: super I don't know if bummed is the right word,
1:48
Speaker 1: but a little down on myself that I didn't think
1:50
Speaker 1: about reaching out to this epic figure in running. When
1:54
Speaker 1: I first heard about Katherine Switzer, it was from Jen Atter.
1:58
Speaker 1: She was the fitness director at Woman's Health. She just
2:01
Speaker 1: announced that she's the new editor in chief of Women's Running.
2:04
Speaker 1: And we were walking through Central Park and filming some
2:07
Speaker 1: content for Rodale leading up to the New York City Marathon,
2:10
Speaker 1: and there were banners lining that final stretch leading up
2:13
Speaker 1: to the finish line, and on one of the banners
2:15
Speaker 1: was Catherine Switzer's name, and Jen told me all about
2:19
Speaker 1: her story and as I mentioned, the first woman to
2:23
Speaker 1: run the Boston Marathon, but she did it a little
2:26
Speaker 1: bit under the radar, completely unintentionally when she signed up
2:30
Speaker 1: for the race, and you'll hear all about this in
2:33
Speaker 1: today's episode. She signed up as Kay V Switzer. It
2:36
Speaker 1: was kind of the nickname that she went by, not
2:39
Speaker 1: really thinking anything of it, and what ended up happening
2:41
Speaker 1: was people weren't exactly excited when they found out that
2:46
Speaker 1: there was a woman on the course. Comra's day. You'll
2:50
Speaker 1: probably recognize the super famous photo of these race officials
2:54
Speaker 1: literally coming after her with their bare hands. It's crazy.
2:59
Speaker 1: Today's episode is all sorts of inspiring and the things
3:01
Speaker 1: that Catherine is doing now with her legacy and just
3:04
Speaker 1: what she's doing today with her organization two six one
3:07
Speaker 1: Fearless to bring active women together through a global, supportive
3:11
Speaker 1: social running network. It's really special. Also tried something new
3:15
Speaker 1: this week. This is the first ever hurdle that I've
3:17
Speaker 1: recorded over the phone, and I actually really love to
3:20
Speaker 1: get your input on this. I know it's something that
3:23
Speaker 1: I love sitting down with people in person. It's really
3:26
Speaker 1: personal hurdle obviously means a lot to me, and I
3:29
Speaker 1: think it's really special to have that in person connection.
3:33
Speaker 1: But it's not always possible. So sometimes you know, there
3:36
Speaker 1: are going to be guests that I'm really excited about
3:38
Speaker 1: that I just don't have the opportunity to sit down
3:40
Speaker 1: with in person. And I'm curious to know what you
3:42
Speaker 1: guys think. Do you like the over to the phone thing?
3:44
Speaker 1: Does it bother you? You know? Just give me your feedback,
3:48
Speaker 1: you know. The drill a Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at Hurdle podcast.
3:52
Speaker 1: If you have a hurdle moment of your own to
3:54
Speaker 1: share or want to just say hi, shoot me a message,
3:56
Speaker 1: feel free to email me Emily at Hurdle dot us.
4:00
Speaker 1: I am so so grateful to all of you. Last
4:03
Speaker 1: week was, without a doubt, the biggest week of a podcast.
4:07
Speaker 1: I thank you guys for that. I think Joe Holder,
4:10
Speaker 1: Nike Master trainer and performance consultant, for giving me his time.
4:13
Speaker 1: I loved interacting with you guys with all of those
4:16
Speaker 1: takeaways that you loved from the episode. And like I said,
4:19
Speaker 1: please keep engaging on Instagram, keep sending these episodes to
4:23
Speaker 1: your friends. Just share the hurdle of it makes a
4:26
Speaker 1: huge difference. It makes my day. It makes me excited
4:30
Speaker 1: to keep coming back your week after week and sharing
4:32
Speaker 1: with you guys. So it's time to get to Catherine's story.
4:35
Speaker 1: Let's get to hurdling.
4:46
Speaker 2: Today.
4:47
Speaker 1: I'm sitting down over the phone with the lovely Catherine Switzer.
4:51
Speaker 1: It's a special day because this podcast's coming out on
4:55
Speaker 1: Marathon Monday, the day of the Boston Marathon. Thanks so
4:58
Speaker 1: much for giving me your time today, Catherine.
5:01
Speaker 2: Emily, it's wonderful to be here. And of course this
5:03
Speaker 2: is the build up for Big Boston and what a
5:06
Speaker 2: day it is. It changes the whole city of Boston.
5:10
Speaker 1: It does. We were both in Boston last year and
5:12
Speaker 1: the weather wasn't ideal. So I don't know we're recording
5:17
Speaker 1: this a little bit preemptively, but it seems to me
5:20
Speaker 1: that they're going to have a better time this year.
5:24
Speaker 2: Well, Emily, I've think anybody who was in Boston last
5:26
Speaker 2: year realizes that on marathon Day it couldn't get worse. Honestly,
5:31
Speaker 2: it was like running in the cold rinch spin cycle
5:35
Speaker 2: of a washing machine for twenty six miles three hundred
5:37
Speaker 2: and eighty five yards. Absolutely, my congratulations to you for
5:41
Speaker 2: actually surviving it.
5:43
Speaker 1: Oh man. Well, it definitely made me stronger, that's to
5:47
Speaker 1: say the least. And I'm happy that, you know, I
5:50
Speaker 1: completed it and now it's on to the next hurtle.
5:53
Speaker 1: So i'd love to introduce my audience just to your
5:56
Speaker 1: story and kind of jump into this. I know when
5:59
Speaker 1: I heard your story, I was walking on the New
6:02
Speaker 1: York City Marathon route about four years ago with a
6:06
Speaker 1: girlfriend of mine and I saw your name on a
6:08
Speaker 1: banner hanging over the route and she explained it to me,
6:12
Speaker 1: and I was just so in awe. So I don't
6:14
Speaker 1: need to, you know, ramble on about it too much more.
6:17
Speaker 1: Why don't we start with you just talking to me
6:19
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you got into running.
6:23
Speaker 2: Well, it's a wonderful story because it was my dad
6:26
Speaker 2: who encouraged me to run a mile a day to
6:27
Speaker 2: make the field hockey team and my local high school
6:30
Speaker 2: and I was only twelve years old and leaving elementary
6:33
Speaker 2: school and going to high school, and the school had
6:35
Speaker 2: just introduced this sport for women, which is phenomenal, but
6:38
Speaker 2: this is the late fifties, and you know, I was insecure,
6:42
Speaker 2: and he said, listen, you run that mile of day,
6:45
Speaker 2: you get ready for the team. You'll be one of
6:47
Speaker 2: the best players. And he saw that I was kind
6:49
Speaker 2: of struggling and looking for identity and acceptance. And I
6:52
Speaker 2: did run this mile of day. I did make the team.
6:55
Speaker 2: It was a wonderful experience, you know, playing sports throughout
6:58
Speaker 2: high school. But the important thing was running that mile
7:00
Speaker 2: a day was really magical and it empowered me and
7:04
Speaker 2: gave me a sense of fearlessness. And I didn't know
7:07
Speaker 2: what it was in those days. I just called it
7:09
Speaker 2: my magic. But I didn't tell too many people about
7:11
Speaker 2: it because I was afraid they think I was kind
7:12
Speaker 2: of crazy. But I would just go up and do
7:16
Speaker 2: this mile a day no matter what, even though I
7:18
Speaker 2: was playing other sports, because it made me kind of
7:22
Speaker 2: like I had a victory under my belt nobody could
7:25
Speaker 2: take away from me. And I say, Wow, what a
7:27
Speaker 2: great thing that is to have when you're growing up
7:31
Speaker 2: and you're getting you know, confronted by all kinds of
7:33
Speaker 2: decisions and you know, prescrewty behavior. But honestly, this magic
7:38
Speaker 2: has stayed with me all my life. I've been running
7:41
Speaker 2: for sixty years, and every day I run, I have
7:44
Speaker 2: this sense of magic and destiny and capability, and that
7:49
Speaker 2: is one reason I'm kind of jumping ahead now. But
7:52
Speaker 2: as we're looking today the Boston Marathon, half of the field, essentially,
7:57
Speaker 2: I believe it's forty nine percent is women do one
8:00
Speaker 2: percent of men at a tough race where you have
8:03
Speaker 2: to be qualified. Most of those women are running because
8:08
Speaker 2: it makes them feel empowered. They're not running because they
8:11
Speaker 2: have a dream of making an Olympic team. They're running
8:14
Speaker 2: for a completely different reason. And the millions of women
8:17
Speaker 2: are running in the United States now especially, which is
8:20
Speaker 2: fifty eight percent of all running participants in the United
8:24
Speaker 2: States are women. Now, that's a social revolution. It's because
8:27
Speaker 2: I feel empowered. So I wasn't wrong when I was twelve,
8:32
Speaker 2: and I really kind of dedicated my career now to
8:36
Speaker 2: trying to get every woman I know to just put
8:40
Speaker 2: one foot in front of the other.
8:41
Speaker 1: When I started running as well, I was running at
8:43
Speaker 1: what I thought was a mile every day, but a
8:45
Speaker 1: half mile every day, and it didn't really matter how
8:48
Speaker 1: far that distance was. What mattered at the time was
8:52
Speaker 1: that I was slowly succeeding at something that I thought
8:55
Speaker 1: that I wasn't that good at.
8:56
Speaker 2: Exactly, because I never ever in my life felt that
9:00
Speaker 2: I was talented at anything. I mean, I've had to
9:02
Speaker 2: work really hard for everything, but that little run every day.
9:07
Speaker 2: Of course, a mile seems like Kilimanjaro to me, but
9:11
Speaker 2: that run just gave me the sense, hey, you know,
9:13
Speaker 2: if you can do this, you can do maybe you
9:15
Speaker 2: can do two miles, you know, or maybe you can
9:17
Speaker 2: try out for the you know, drama club or something,
9:20
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It just gave you the
9:22
Speaker 2: next step. And constantly it has been my kind of
9:27
Speaker 2: northern star as I've gone through life.
9:29
Speaker 1: What does running look like for you these days?
9:33
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting, you know, we all go through waves
9:35
Speaker 2: in our lives, of transitions, et cetera. I trained up
9:40
Speaker 2: really hard for the twenty seventeen Boston Marathon, which was
9:46
Speaker 2: my fiftieth anniversary run, which made me the first woman
9:49
Speaker 2: ever to run a marathon fifty years after she first did,
9:53
Speaker 2: which doesn't make me special, No, it doesn't make me special.
9:55
Speaker 2: It just shows you how few women ran fifty years ago.
9:58
Speaker 2: But the point is is I did it, and I
10:01
Speaker 2: did it well. I only did it twenty four minutes
10:03
Speaker 2: slower than I did when I was twenty, so the
10:06
Speaker 2: body is utterly fantastic. And then I went on that
10:09
Speaker 2: year and also ran the New York City Marathon forty
10:12
Speaker 2: three years after I won it, and then I decided,
10:14
Speaker 2: you know, now I'm full of delusion and I have POxy.
10:17
Speaker 2: I hear, okay, but I've been going on and random
10:20
Speaker 2: London Marathon last April, so it has been an incredible
10:25
Speaker 2: year I would say two years. But right right after
10:30
Speaker 2: the London race, I tripped on a tree route near
10:32
Speaker 2: my home here and the Hudson Valley and tore my
10:35
Speaker 2: glotous minimus. And I think nature was saying, you know what,
10:38
Speaker 2: girls is slow down, to just take me easy in
10:40
Speaker 2: the back off. So I backed off for the last
10:43
Speaker 2: five or six months, easy jogging, doing my core work,
10:47
Speaker 2: and I'm gearing up now. I'm going to run the
10:49
Speaker 2: five k in Boston, and I'm going to run several
10:52
Speaker 2: five k's and then a ten k the Senior Games
10:56
Speaker 2: in June, and then in November I hope to be
11:00
Speaker 2: ready for half marathon. So they would take it easy
11:02
Speaker 2: and then we'll look at what the marathon looks like
11:04
Speaker 2: on the horizon, then would make it easy. I will look.
11:10
Speaker 2: I want to run all my life. I really do
11:13
Speaker 2: want to be running when I'm eighty and eighty five
11:16
Speaker 2: and as I say, I'm very grateful for my health,
11:19
Speaker 2: but I also want to take care of it. The
11:22
Speaker 2: point that we have to find is that as we
11:25
Speaker 2: age and we age actively, we know that people who
11:29
Speaker 2: stay active, the longer they go have a longer life,
11:33
Speaker 2: a better life, and more optimistic life, a healthier life.
11:36
Speaker 2: But we want to make sure that we find the
11:38
Speaker 2: balance so that you know, I don't fall over true
11:41
Speaker 2: roots and I don't overtrain, so I'll find that sweet spot.
11:45
Speaker 2: And I must say, though twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen were
11:50
Speaker 2: animrabulous is for me, fantastic.
11:53
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, And I love that you just dropped.
11:55
Speaker 1: You won the New York City Marathon in nineteen seventy four.
12:00
Speaker 1: Only did you win the New York City Marathon, but
12:02
Speaker 1: you did it on one hundred degree day, in three hours,
12:05
Speaker 1: in seven minutes. Something else, a statistic that I find
12:08
Speaker 1: interesting is that, uh, if you've run the Boston Marathon
12:12
Speaker 1: in a time of two fifty one. When I ran
12:14
Speaker 1: my first half marathon ever in two thousand and eight,
12:18
Speaker 1: it was just about that time.
12:22
Speaker 2: Isn't it amazing though? What the body can do? Yeah,
12:25
Speaker 2: I mean, I can distinctly remember you know when I
12:28
Speaker 2: ran my first miles, and I can distinctly remember when
12:30
Speaker 2: I've ran my first mile in six minutes, and then
12:34
Speaker 2: I can remember, of course training up and running that
12:37
Speaker 2: two fifty one. I ran six thirty three minutes a
12:41
Speaker 2: mile for twenty six miles, and I thought, holy toly,
12:45
Speaker 2: do you know if I can do that? How much
12:47
Speaker 2: talent exists out there among women, if they only have
12:51
Speaker 2: the opportunity and belief in their own capability. See, the
12:55
Speaker 2: fascination was, you know, I mean, I'm physiologically fascinated by
12:58
Speaker 2: what we can do and what we're going to come,
13:00
Speaker 2: But I know I'm not talented. When I did that,
13:03
Speaker 2: I said I can run two fifty one. There are
13:06
Speaker 2: women out there who can run a two thirty. And
13:08
Speaker 2: when I said that, honestly, people said, you're smoking poppy,
13:12
Speaker 2: and I said, no, look at how it breaks down.
13:15
Speaker 2: And what we're also finding out, of course, is that
13:17
Speaker 2: women actually are extremely good, in fact better than men
13:21
Speaker 2: at endurance, stamina flexibility events. And we're seeing them win
13:26
Speaker 2: outright one hundred mile races, three day races, twenty four
13:31
Speaker 2: hour runs. And this is going to be very, very
13:33
Speaker 2: influential in terms of how the future sport looks. So
13:38
Speaker 2: when I did that, my focus really, there's two fifty one.
13:42
Speaker 2: My focus really then became even stronger to create opportunities
13:46
Speaker 2: where women could emerge and we could get not only
13:50
Speaker 2: them out running, but would get the event in the
13:51
Speaker 2: Olympic Games, which was my biggest goal at the time
13:54
Speaker 2: in my life.
13:56
Speaker 1: Right right, So why don't we rewind it back back
13:59
Speaker 1: towards nineteen sixty seven and what the year or two
14:03
Speaker 1: looked like leading up to that monumental Boston Marathon for you?
14:08
Speaker 2: Oh, well, it was hilarious, but it was very eye opening.
14:11
Speaker 2: My coach was an ex marathon runner. He was a
14:14
Speaker 2: fifty year old Maleman, a wonderful, big hearted guy, a small,
14:18
Speaker 2: tiny and he didn't believe any woman anywhere could run
14:21
Speaker 2: a marathon. And I kept telling him that women had
14:25
Speaker 2: run marathons, not with any fans fare, and that even
14:29
Speaker 2: a woman named Bertie Gibb had jumped out of the
14:31
Speaker 2: bushes at Boston and run the race. And he simply
14:34
Speaker 2: didn't believe it. He always said, no dame ever ran
14:38
Speaker 2: no marathon. So I said, okay, I will show you
14:43
Speaker 2: in practice. And where were you living at the time, Oh,
14:46
Speaker 2: I was a student at Syracuse University. I was studying journalism.
14:51
Speaker 2: We were running through canyons of snow. It was so cold,
14:56
Speaker 2: it was so bitterly cold, and it made me very tough,
14:59
Speaker 2: and he was very impressed with my toughness. So when
15:02
Speaker 2: I told him that I really wanted to run Boston,
15:05
Speaker 2: he was the one who really challenged me. He said,
15:07
Speaker 2: I did it in practice, the distance in practice, he
15:11
Speaker 2: would be convinced and would take me to Boston. And
15:13
Speaker 2: he never never in a million years thought that I
15:15
Speaker 2: could do it or I even wanted to do it really,
15:17
Speaker 2: but I did. And the day that we ran our
15:20
Speaker 2: twenty six miles in practice, we actually ran thirty one
15:24
Speaker 2: miles because when we finished the first workout, I said,
15:26
Speaker 2: let's do another five. Let's keep going because I want
15:29
Speaker 2: to make sure we go to Boston. Nothing can stop us,
15:32
Speaker 2: which was an interesting thing to say, and I metaphorically,
15:35
Speaker 2: you know, like that we wouldn't get tired. And I
15:40
Speaker 2: had no idea that there was going to be anything untoward.
15:43
Speaker 2: And when we finished the workout, my coach passed out
15:47
Speaker 2: and he said, women have hidden potential in endurance and stamina.
15:51
Speaker 2: And that's when we began to realize the longer I ran,
15:54
Speaker 2: the better I got relative to the men. And in fact,
15:57
Speaker 2: the men on the cross country team with whom I
15:59
Speaker 2: was training want to come out with us if we
16:01
Speaker 2: were going to go more than thirteen miles. You guys
16:03
Speaker 2: are crazy, they say, So that's what happened. And then Arnie,
16:08
Speaker 2: my coach, was all business, and he said, okay, you
16:11
Speaker 2: got to sign up for the race. And I said, well,
16:12
Speaker 2: why can't we just go and just you know, jump in.
16:14
Speaker 2: It looks like a big tree for all to me.
16:16
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, you've got to be crazy.
16:18
Speaker 2: This is the most serious race in the world, next
16:21
Speaker 2: to the Olympic Games. And I said okay, And he said,
16:24
Speaker 2: you remember the Athletic Federation. You got to sign up
16:27
Speaker 2: and pay your two dollars injury free and follow the rules.
16:30
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, okay, okay. Well in the rule
16:33
Speaker 2: book there was nothing about gender in the marathon right
16:36
Speaker 2: and on the entry for there was nothing about gender.
16:39
Speaker 2: And I said to Arnie, okay, gosh, we're going to
16:42
Speaker 2: be noticed up in Boston. Are you wearing a number
16:44
Speaker 2: at all? And he said, I know, and I'm proud
16:47
Speaker 2: of you. It was really, really nice he was just
16:51
Speaker 2: he was a guy who completely changed his attitude and
16:55
Speaker 2: was willing to take the risk and take me to Boston,
16:57
Speaker 2: take me under his wing. He was a couple of
17:00
Speaker 2: guys from the cross country team, and here we were.
17:04
Speaker 2: So the point of the entry form, though, is this
17:07
Speaker 2: is that I signed the entry form with my initials K. B. Switzer.
17:11
Speaker 2: And I was doing that not to defraud the officials,
17:14
Speaker 2: because that's how I'd been signing my name for two reasons. One,
17:17
Speaker 2: my dad misspelled my name on my birth certificate and
17:19
Speaker 2: it was always spelled I think you've noticed the E
17:23
Speaker 2: is not in the middle of the Catherine. And the
17:26
Speaker 2: other reasons because when I was writing sports from my
17:29
Speaker 2: high school newspaper and then on to journalism school where
17:32
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a sports writer, I was reading
17:36
Speaker 2: also J. D. Salinger in E. E. Cummings and T. S. Eliott,
17:39
Speaker 2: and so it seemed to me that if you're really
17:41
Speaker 2: a cool writer, you signed your name with your initials.
17:44
Speaker 1: So I want to reevaluate what I'm doing here.
17:51
Speaker 2: The obviously, the officials thought the entry form had come
17:53
Speaker 2: from a guy but not from a girl, so that
17:57
Speaker 2: that was a coincidence, And of course the other coincidence
18:00
Speaker 2: Boston was up until last year, Emily, it was the
18:03
Speaker 2: worst conditions ever in the history of the Boston Marathon.
18:07
Speaker 2: So it was about thirty five degrees thirty four with
18:11
Speaker 2: a headwind and sleep and snow and rain, and it
18:14
Speaker 2: was bitterly, bitterly cold, so we were soaked to the skin,
18:18
Speaker 2: but you still had snow piling up on your shoulders
18:21
Speaker 2: and your hands were frozen. We looked like refugees. We
18:24
Speaker 2: had on everything we brought with us, and from a distance,
18:29
Speaker 2: just like last year, you probably couldn't tell me from
18:31
Speaker 2: the guys, we all looked alike. We were all bundled up,
18:35
Speaker 2: and the officials didn't see me, didn't call me out.
18:39
Speaker 2: They pushed me into the starting lineup. And it wasn't
18:41
Speaker 2: until about a mile and a half into the race
18:44
Speaker 2: when the press truck came true and was filming from
18:48
Speaker 2: the back of a flatbed truck that they saw me
18:50
Speaker 2: and the race wearing numbers and stopped, slowed down and
18:53
Speaker 2: began taking pictures. And we didn't think anything else. We
18:56
Speaker 2: just kind of waved at them. But the race directly
19:00
Speaker 2: on an accompanying bus, and he completely lost his temper.
19:04
Speaker 2: His name was Jock Semple. He was the sort of
19:07
Speaker 2: speisty race director of the race, regarded it as his baby,
19:11
Speaker 2: doesn't want anybody making a fool of him. And now
19:14
Speaker 2: here was this girl wearing numbers. He just lost it
19:18
Speaker 2: and threw into a rage and ran down the street
19:22
Speaker 2: and attacked me and tried to pull off my good
19:24
Speaker 2: numbers and screaming at me, get the hell out of
19:26
Speaker 2: my race and give me those numbers.
19:28
Speaker 1: And what were the people around you doing at that time?
19:32
Speaker 2: Well, well, the men around us were shocked. They kind
19:34
Speaker 2: of looked like what what And they were saying, hey, hey, hey,
19:37
Speaker 2: you know, leave her alone, leave her alone. And Arnie
19:39
Speaker 2: was streaming at him, my coach saying leave her alone,
19:42
Speaker 2: leave her alone. She's okay, I've trained her. He couldn't
19:44
Speaker 2: get him away. He just the official batted arnyway. But
19:48
Speaker 2: my boyfriend, who is running with me, part of the team,
19:53
Speaker 2: who shouldn't have been there. You know, he was only
19:56
Speaker 2: there because if his girlfriend could run twenty six miles,
19:59
Speaker 2: he could run twenty six miles. It was a very
20:02
Speaker 2: very talented athlete, and he just took out the official
20:06
Speaker 2: with the most amazing shoulder charge and sent him flying
20:11
Speaker 2: and Arnie looked at all of us and screamed, run
20:14
Speaker 2: like hell, and down the street we went. And you know,
20:16
Speaker 2: in the retelling it's very very funny, but at the
20:19
Speaker 2: time it was extremely traumatic, especially for me. It was
20:22
Speaker 2: traumatic for all of us, but for me it was
20:24
Speaker 2: extremely traumatic because I was scared, I was embarrassed, humiliated.
20:30
Speaker 2: And then the press came kept alongside of me on
20:34
Speaker 2: the press truck and really kept burraating me and saying,
20:38
Speaker 2: when are you going to drop out? What are you
20:39
Speaker 2: trying to prove? What are you doing here? You know
20:42
Speaker 2: this is a joke, right, just a publicity stunt, And
20:45
Speaker 2: it was really, really hard. It was the even the
20:50
Speaker 2: second great women's liberation movement, the Betty for Dan Gloria
20:54
Speaker 2: Steinem movement, where people were saying women are always barging
20:58
Speaker 2: into places where they're not well and they can't do
21:01
Speaker 2: it anyway. And I knew, no matter what, even at twenty,
21:06
Speaker 2: I knew. I just turned to my coaches, so I
21:08
Speaker 2: have to finish the strength. I have to finish and
21:10
Speaker 2: raise my hands and I knees it if that's what
21:13
Speaker 2: it takes, because nobody's going to believe women can do
21:15
Speaker 2: it right, And it was a tremendous decision for a
21:19
Speaker 2: young girl. I was, you know, all through twenty seventeen
21:23
Speaker 2: when the media was really really hot about me running
21:28
Speaker 2: again fifty years later, and they said, what did you think?
21:31
Speaker 2: What do you think about when you see that picture?
21:33
Speaker 2: Because there were lots of pictures taken of the incident,
21:36
Speaker 2: because he did it at the front of the press truck.
21:38
Speaker 2: Actually man. But anyway, when I look at the picture,
21:42
Speaker 2: I don't look at him attacking me or my boyfriend
21:45
Speaker 2: hitting him. I look at my face, and I'm thinking,
21:48
Speaker 2: how could a twenty year old girl make a decision
21:51
Speaker 2: so strong in the face of such adversity? And I
21:54
Speaker 2: think it was because I've been running since I was
21:56
Speaker 2: twelve and had that magic victory under my belt that
22:00
Speaker 2: nobody could take away from me. And that's what I
22:03
Speaker 2: tell people, and that's what I try to impart two
22:06
Speaker 2: young girls and even old ladies.
22:08
Speaker 1: Did you know at the time that you would go
22:11
Speaker 1: on to run more marathons? Did you think that you
22:14
Speaker 1: would show up there and it would be kind of
22:16
Speaker 1: a one done situation, or the second that you finished
22:18
Speaker 1: that you were hooked.
22:21
Speaker 2: No. I In fact, it's interesting you asked that question.
22:24
Speaker 2: I had fallen in love with running, and I'd fallen
22:26
Speaker 2: in love with distance running. I mean, nobody's going to
22:29
Speaker 2: run thirty one miles in practice unless they love to run.
22:32
Speaker 2: And I just wanted to keep on going forever, and
22:34
Speaker 2: I felt like I could go forever. So I knew
22:38
Speaker 2: after Boston that I was going to just run all
22:41
Speaker 2: the time, but I didn't know what it would looked
22:43
Speaker 2: like because I didn't know it was going to be
22:45
Speaker 2: a hard fight or what It was hard and bizarre
22:50
Speaker 2: because all the men in the race were so wonderful
22:52
Speaker 2: to me. You know, they were very welcoming. As they
22:54
Speaker 2: went by, they'd say, go for it, were with you
22:56
Speaker 2: all the way, or I, hey, I might I wish
22:59
Speaker 2: my wife would run. I wish my girlfriend would run.
23:01
Speaker 2: Can you give me some tips to get her started?
23:03
Speaker 2: So those are things that were resonating with me. Is
23:08
Speaker 2: that the population of people I was running with, the
23:10
Speaker 2: men on the cross country team or the master's aged
23:13
Speaker 2: guys I was running with, were very, very supportive. They
23:17
Speaker 2: never they never regarded me as the girl. I was
23:20
Speaker 2: just out there running with them and we just sort
23:24
Speaker 2: of shared the secrets of her soul as running buddies do.
23:27
Speaker 2: And it was a wonderful time in an age of
23:30
Speaker 2: sexual contentiousness, very much like we are in now sometimes,
23:34
Speaker 2: where we found egalitarianism and inclusion and was totally natural,
23:40
Speaker 2: totally natural supporting each other. But no, interesting you asked
23:44
Speaker 2: that question, because when I crossed the finish line, I
23:47
Speaker 2: was met by a bunch of really irascable journalists and
23:52
Speaker 2: one of them said, just what you asked, but in
23:54
Speaker 2: a much nastier way. He said, this is just a
23:57
Speaker 2: one off deal. Hey, you're not going to run another marathon?
24:00
Speaker 2: Is just a joke, right, And I said, there's nothing
24:04
Speaker 2: about twenty six miles. That's a joke. It's a tough road.
24:08
Speaker 2: And I said, and I'm going to run the rest
24:11
Speaker 2: of my life. You are going to someday read about
24:15
Speaker 2: a little eighty year old lady who dropped dead in
24:18
Speaker 2: Central Park while she's running, and that's going to be me. Well,
24:24
Speaker 2: of course, now I die only get back. I'm up
24:26
Speaker 2: to ninety five now, so but no, I knew I
24:31
Speaker 2: was gonna run forever, you know.
24:37
Speaker 1: Taking a quick break from today's episode to give my
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24:44
Speaker 1: did it. I made smoothies this week with Athletic Greens. Now,
24:48
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Speaker 1: a reminder about what's in Athletic Greens. It's a greens powder.
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25:03
Speaker 1: addition to a post workout smoothie. Now, usually I just
25:06
Speaker 1: shake it up with ten to twelve pounces of water,
25:09
Speaker 1: but I was feeling a little adventurous, so in the smoothie,
25:13
Speaker 1: I did just shy of a cup of almond milk,
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Speaker 1: five ice cubes, very specific vegan vanilla protein powder of
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25:25
Speaker 1: of frozen pineapple. I blended that up in my VitaminX
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25:32
Speaker 1: greenish version of a pina colada. And I was so
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Speaker 1: no code necessary again athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle. Let's
25:58
Speaker 1: get back to it. Aside from that question from the journalist,
26:06
Speaker 1: what was everything else like after you finished that run?
26:09
Speaker 2: Well, it was very anti climactic to finish the run,
26:12
Speaker 2: because all through the run there was this enormous tension
26:15
Speaker 2: of are we going to be thrown out? Are the
26:17
Speaker 2: police going to intercede? Are they going to wait until
26:20
Speaker 2: we get near the finish and then divert us software
26:22
Speaker 2: course and keep us from finishing. Those are all things
26:26
Speaker 2: that went through our minds, and as it turns out,
26:29
Speaker 2: nothing happened there, and we came down and crossed the
26:31
Speaker 2: finish line, and we didn't hug each other and throw
26:34
Speaker 2: our arms up there and say we did it. We
26:36
Speaker 2: did it, but we were all kind of quietly pleased.
26:38
Speaker 2: Three of us finished together. My boyfriend had dropped away,
26:41
Speaker 2: but he did eventually finish anyway. But it was then
26:46
Speaker 2: the journalists who are really crabby, and they took the
26:49
Speaker 2: joy out of it. Of course, you know, telling me,
26:52
Speaker 2: what are you trying to prove again? What do you suffer, Jette.
26:54
Speaker 2: They're very, very crabby and unwilling to understand, with the
26:59
Speaker 2: exception of one, and his name was Joke and Kennon.
27:02
Speaker 2: He was a young guy about twenty five years old,
27:05
Speaker 2: and he was covering his first to Boston Marathon. And
27:07
Speaker 2: this guy went on to become the Dean Marathon writing
27:10
Speaker 2: until his death with the Boston Globe. So that was interesting.
27:15
Speaker 2: And then and then we thought, okay, this is just
27:17
Speaker 2: a crazy incident, and we went back to a friend's house.
27:19
Speaker 2: We got a showers and food and a couple of beers,
27:21
Speaker 2: and then we had to hit the road and get
27:24
Speaker 2: back to Syracuse. We had class and work the next day.
27:27
Speaker 2: Boston in those days wasn't on Monday. It was always
27:30
Speaker 2: on April nineteenth, and so we had class the next day,
27:34
Speaker 2: and so, you know, we didn't get home until like
27:36
Speaker 2: two in the morning, and it wasn't until he stopped
27:40
Speaker 2: on the truway in Aubany and we're getting some coffee
27:44
Speaker 2: and ice cream just to stay awake. When we saw
27:48
Speaker 2: the newspapers and front and back, because you know, in
27:52
Speaker 2: those days there are lots and lots of newspapers in
27:54
Speaker 2: those wire racks. In all the cafes and there we
27:59
Speaker 2: looked at the paper and we all just looked at
28:00
Speaker 2: each other and we said, oh my god, it was
28:03
Speaker 2: every one of them on the front page. So that's
28:06
Speaker 2: when I thought, well, my life is going to change. Now.
28:09
Speaker 2: The boys were crowing. The boys were crowing like roosters
28:13
Speaker 2: in the barnyards. They thought it was really cool. Look
28:16
Speaker 2: wait that that guy. Ah, And I just got very
28:20
Speaker 2: quiet because I thought, oh my gosh, my life is
28:22
Speaker 2: going to change. And did it ever? I mean, it was.
28:24
Speaker 2: It was a thing that changed my life. And you know,
28:29
Speaker 2: you can do two things in life. You can you
28:31
Speaker 2: can pick up the responsibility and make positive change or
28:37
Speaker 2: some kind of deliberate change with that, or you can
28:40
Speaker 2: walk away from it. And I felt terribly responsible for
28:44
Speaker 2: what I had done. And then I was going to
28:46
Speaker 2: try try, try to make a good out of it,
28:50
Speaker 2: and I did so I was. It took my whole life,
28:53
Speaker 2: and I'm still doing it. There's still a long way
28:55
Speaker 2: to go, because most of the women in the world
28:57
Speaker 2: still live in a fearful situation and running can really
29:01
Speaker 2: help them, and it will continue to do that. But
29:05
Speaker 2: it's a big world, and there's still a tremendous number
29:08
Speaker 2: of barricades and prejudices out there.
29:11
Speaker 1: Right, And you say responsible in what sounds to be
29:14
Speaker 1: like you felt guilty about what you had done. Is
29:17
Speaker 1: that how you felt?
29:18
Speaker 2: Not at all? Not at all. I felt the burden
29:21
Speaker 2: of responsibility. I felt that there was going to be
29:23
Speaker 2: a lot of work, but I said no, no. I
29:26
Speaker 2: felt quite delighted and happy, but resolute about what I
29:33
Speaker 2: had done. I didn't go to Boston to prove anything,
29:37
Speaker 2: but that's what happened, and now I really needed to
29:40
Speaker 2: follow up with it. If I walked away from it,
29:43
Speaker 2: it would have been a disgrace. Instead, I embraced it
29:46
Speaker 2: full on and said, all right, I'm going to make
29:47
Speaker 2: positive change here. But it was not easy because I
29:51
Speaker 2: was expelled from the Athletic Federation. I got a lot
29:53
Speaker 2: of hate mail, but I also got a lot of
29:56
Speaker 2: wonderful male and I got tremendous support from guys who
30:00
Speaker 2: or runners, and that made all the difference. And just
30:03
Speaker 2: piece by piece, step by step, we started making that change.
30:06
Speaker 2: I think what I mean by responsibility, and this is
30:09
Speaker 2: a very very important thing in terms of business too,
30:12
Speaker 2: is people always have an opportunity to do something better
30:16
Speaker 2: or to change some social injustice. We all are surrounded
30:21
Speaker 2: by it. Most people will say, oh, I'm too busy
30:25
Speaker 2: or it's too hard, and they walk away from it.
30:28
Speaker 2: Picking it up and making positive change is not easy,
30:32
Speaker 2: and it takes a lot of time, and it's hands on,
30:34
Speaker 2: nitty gritty work. And I was willing to do that.
30:37
Speaker 2: And I often say that, you know the reason I
30:39
Speaker 2: got the women's marathon in the Olympic Games is I
30:41
Speaker 2: was a person who was willing to lift the envelopes
30:43
Speaker 2: at night. You know, right right, you have to. You
30:47
Speaker 2: have to. You have to take all of it. You
30:50
Speaker 2: can have great ideas, but you've got to make it happen.
30:52
Speaker 2: In it, it's piece by piece. The devil's always in
30:54
Speaker 2: the details.
30:55
Speaker 1: Got you, okay? So obviously you said that you got
30:58
Speaker 1: banned from the BAA. I know that in nineteen seventy two.
31:01
Speaker 1: That's when women were finally allowed to run in the
31:04
Speaker 1: Boston Marathon for the first time. And then your personal
31:07
Speaker 1: best time shortly after that two fifty one thirty seven
31:10
Speaker 1: at Boston in nineteen seventy five.
31:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so getting women into the Boston Marathon took five years.
31:17
Speaker 2: I mean, that's amazing because people like Sarah may Berman,
31:20
Speaker 2: Anina Cusick and others were pushing down to three hours,
31:25
Speaker 2: even under three hours, and they still weren't official. And
31:28
Speaker 2: finally we did our legislative work and got the Amateur
31:32
Speaker 2: Athletic Union to admit women in long distance running, and
31:35
Speaker 2: there were some provisos, but we managed to work those
31:38
Speaker 2: into Finally we finally were official in Boston seventy two,
31:42
Speaker 2: and then became the big push to get women in
31:46
Speaker 2: a lot of other events. And my dream was then
31:48
Speaker 2: to get the women's marathon into the Olympic Games. And
31:51
Speaker 2: what I did with my skills is, first, you know,
31:54
Speaker 2: you decided to try to become a good athlete, so
31:57
Speaker 2: I would have the credibility of being a good athlete.
32:00
Speaker 2: I knew I was. I knew if the women's marathon
32:03
Speaker 2: got into the Olympic Games, I would never have the
32:05
Speaker 2: talent to make the team. I just knew there were
32:07
Speaker 2: some incredible women runners out there who didn't know they
32:10
Speaker 2: were good, and if we could create the opportunity for them.
32:14
Speaker 2: So I wrote a very big business proposal to Avon
32:17
Speaker 2: Cosmetics and took it out to them and they hired
32:21
Speaker 2: me and we created a global series of races, four
32:24
Speaker 2: hundred races in twenty seven countries, and we use the
32:27
Speaker 2: data statistics from those races to convince the International Olympic
32:31
Speaker 2: Committee to get the women's marathon in the Olympic Games.
32:34
Speaker 2: So people who say, oh, let's get this event in
32:36
Speaker 2: the Olympic Games, I say, yeah, sure, you can get
32:38
Speaker 2: your eventing Olympic Games if you're willing to do your
32:40
Speaker 2: homework and prove to the IOC that you have the
32:42
Speaker 2: international representation and the events in all those different countries.
32:46
Speaker 2: It was really, really very very tedious, but also wonderful
32:53
Speaker 2: because people would say, in a place like Thailand or
32:55
Speaker 2: the Philippines or Brazil, the women in our country don't
32:59
Speaker 2: want to run, and they would come out by their thousands,
33:02
Speaker 2: and you know, we just changed everybody's notions, and women's
33:06
Speaker 2: most importantly about running. They had fun, it was non intimidating,
33:13
Speaker 2: and they got pretty good too, so it was amazing.
33:17
Speaker 2: And I believe frankly, when Joe Benoit Saminson came into
33:21
Speaker 2: that Olympic stadium for the first time in the women's marathon,
33:26
Speaker 2: the inaugural one in nineteen eighty four, I think that
33:30
Speaker 2: moment was as important as giving women the right to vote,
33:33
Speaker 2: because the vote was about our social and cultural acceptance
33:36
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty and this was now the physical acceptance
33:41
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four, where we realized women had equality
33:44
Speaker 2: in the most difficulty event in the Olympic Games with men,
33:48
Speaker 2: and everybody in the whole world watching on television knows
33:51
Speaker 2: how far forty two point two kilometers or twenty six
33:55
Speaker 2: point two miles is and they know it's a long way, right,
33:58
Speaker 2: you know, you understand distance. You understand distance. They said,
34:02
Speaker 2: holy to lead, here are women running out. You know,
34:04
Speaker 2: it's amazing.
34:05
Speaker 1: And after working that hard to get the marathon for
34:08
Speaker 1: women to be a part of the games, you were
34:10
Speaker 1: actually one of the television commentators for the nineteen eighty
34:14
Speaker 1: four games. Is that right?
34:15
Speaker 2: When it came time for the Olympic Marathon, ABC did
34:19
Speaker 2: not have a commentator. They said, you know, we have
34:22
Speaker 2: this new event called the Women's marathon, but we don't
34:25
Speaker 2: have anybody here knows anything about it. And I just
34:27
Speaker 2: looked at them and I held up my hand. I
34:29
Speaker 2: said I know a lot about it, and I said, okay,
34:31
Speaker 2: you're hired. So there I was, you know, kind of
34:34
Speaker 2: a blazer and Michael pron and L Michael and doing
34:38
Speaker 2: the commentary and that. You know, I had been doing
34:41
Speaker 2: bits and pieces of TV, but that was that was
34:45
Speaker 2: the big one. And from that I'd done several other
34:47
Speaker 2: Olympics and World Championships and stuff like that. But more
34:51
Speaker 2: interestingly is that, I think, not more interestingly, but also
34:55
Speaker 2: interesting is I've done the commentary of Boston Marathon for
34:59
Speaker 2: forty one consecutive years, and this year I've officially retired.
35:06
Speaker 2: You know what I said, I said, when an American
35:09
Speaker 2: woman finally wins the Boston Marathon again, I'm retiring. And
35:13
Speaker 2: when Desie Linden won last year, I looked at a
35:16
Speaker 2: hard producer, I said, it's the end of the road
35:19
Speaker 2: for me.
35:20
Speaker 1: Oh man, So obviously you mentioned you're going to be
35:23
Speaker 1: running the five k, but what else are you going
35:25
Speaker 1: to be doing on marathon Monday?
35:27
Speaker 2: Oh, We've got so much. Mostly my efforts are going
35:30
Speaker 2: to be with two six one fearless. So let me
35:33
Speaker 2: tell you about two six one fearless. Who would have
35:35
Speaker 2: ever imagined that that BIB number that the official try
35:38
Speaker 2: to rip off of me would become a magic number
35:40
Speaker 2: meaning fearless in the face of adversity. I never would
35:43
Speaker 2: have imagined that for forty five years that number was
35:47
Speaker 2: three digits, and suddenly people began telling me it made
35:50
Speaker 2: them feel fearless and that they were wearing that on
35:52
Speaker 2: their back in their next race, and how running had
35:55
Speaker 2: changed their lives, and they just used that number is
36:00
Speaker 2: a symbol, and I thought, how interesting. I wonder what
36:03
Speaker 2: this really means. And actually, what it does mean is
36:05
Speaker 2: that we've all been told at one time in our
36:07
Speaker 2: life or the other that you know, we're not good enough,
36:10
Speaker 2: or we're not welcome, or we're not cool, and then
36:12
Speaker 2: we go run and we feel like we can do
36:14
Speaker 2: anything when we can. So we took this sense of
36:20
Speaker 2: spirit and took the number because the word fearless was
36:23
Speaker 2: always been used with it, and we created a nonprofit
36:27
Speaker 2: called two six 's One Fearless, where we reach out
36:30
Speaker 2: around the world different villages, cities, countries to offer women
36:37
Speaker 2: the opportunity to take the first step. And you know,
36:41
Speaker 2: so many women live in a fearful situation and they
36:44
Speaker 2: think they can't do anything, and we're saying, tell her
36:48
Speaker 2: she can't, take her by the hands, bring her out
36:50
Speaker 2: for an afternoon one day a week and get her
36:55
Speaker 2: to move with you. Walk, run, talk, whatever, and it
36:59
Speaker 2: is quite life changing because running is transformation and sometimes
37:04
Speaker 2: people just need to have that moment to take that
37:08
Speaker 2: first leap. And you know, I say that this fearful
37:12
Speaker 2: woman may be in a different country, but she also
37:15
Speaker 2: could be your next door neighbor and even in your workplace.
37:19
Speaker 2: She may be competent in so many areas, but she
37:21
Speaker 2: may be so fearful about your capability and running. When
37:25
Speaker 2: you feel empowered to changes everything in your life. You
37:28
Speaker 2: feel like you can get a better education or a
37:30
Speaker 2: better job, or apply for something that's better in your office,
37:33
Speaker 2: or leave a bad relationship, all of those things that
37:36
Speaker 2: gives you the courage to do. So that's what we're
37:39
Speaker 2: doing with two six one Fearless. And I've got a
37:40
Speaker 2: whole team of women who are running here in Boston
37:45
Speaker 2: and they're raising funds with charity Bibs to help fund
37:49
Speaker 2: the foundation, which is going gangbusters around the world. We're
37:52
Speaker 2: already in eleven countries with over two thousand women involved.
37:56
Speaker 2: It's true awesome.
37:57
Speaker 1: That's so awesome. And I know when you ran the
37:59
Speaker 1: Boston Marathon twenty seventeen, you were running with some of
38:01
Speaker 1: the women from two six one Fearless as well, we had.
38:05
Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty five people on our team. We
38:09
Speaker 2: had one hundred and eighteen women and seven intrepid guys,
38:14
Speaker 2: and we really wanted these guys to run with us,
38:17
Speaker 2: and they really wanted to run with us too, because
38:20
Speaker 2: it was sort of a gesture to the guys who
38:23
Speaker 2: had helped me so much in nineteen sixty seven, the
38:27
Speaker 2: guys surrounding us in the immediate team, which were so.
38:31
Speaker 1: Wonderful, right right, And obviously, I mean, you've made such
38:34
Speaker 1: an outstanding career from your passion for running. But when
38:38
Speaker 1: you're not running, and when you're not speaking, and when
38:40
Speaker 1: you're not inspiring, what are some things that Catherine likes
38:44
Speaker 1: to do that have nothing to do with running.
38:47
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you know, there's a huge frustration
38:50
Speaker 2: in my life, which is that my house is immense.
38:55
Speaker 2: We really love to clean it up, and it's tedious
38:58
Speaker 2: because there's a lot of paper and photographs, an incredible memorabilia.
39:02
Speaker 2: So where's that stuff going to go? And how do
39:04
Speaker 2: you sort it? And it always takes too much time.
39:06
Speaker 2: So that's a frustration. But also something I take great
39:10
Speaker 2: joy in is finally clearing out a drawer or a
39:12
Speaker 2: box or something anyway, But by the bye, what do
39:16
Speaker 2: I love? You know, I really love film and I
39:18
Speaker 2: really love theater. Just a few days ago I took
39:23
Speaker 2: off a day and went into the city with my
39:25
Speaker 2: husband Roger, who is Roger Robinson, terrific, terrific writer. By
39:29
Speaker 2: the way, he's just just out with a new book
39:31
Speaker 2: called When Running Made History and a fabulous book. Everybody's
39:35
Speaker 2: loving this book. Anyway, we just took the day and
39:38
Speaker 2: when we saw a fabulous production of Julius Caesar in
39:41
Speaker 2: the city and had dinner with friends. So I would say,
39:44
Speaker 2: film and theater is a joy. And honestly, read reading
39:51
Speaker 2: all the time. I just try whenever I can to
39:54
Speaker 2: go through books. And actually I'm frustrated that I don't
39:58
Speaker 2: have enough time to read as much as I want.
40:00
Speaker 2: But you know, if you just read ten minutes every
40:02
Speaker 2: night before you go to sleep, you can put through
40:04
Speaker 2: a lot of books and awesome.
40:06
Speaker 1: And then obviously, you know a lot of people for
40:09
Speaker 1: some time now have followed your journey all the way
40:12
Speaker 1: back from Boston till now. When they look at you,
40:15
Speaker 1: they see the first woman that ran the Boston Marathon registered.
40:19
Speaker 1: But when you look in the mirror, what is it
40:22
Speaker 1: that you see.
40:24
Speaker 2: You know, I see a pretty ordinary person, you know,
40:27
Speaker 2: increasingly wrinkled. It doesn't have the face of the legs
40:32
Speaker 2: you used to have. But I say, cheaper is. You know,
40:35
Speaker 2: I've had a really quite amazing life and the women
40:38
Speaker 2: I have met and men have given back so much
40:41
Speaker 2: to me. And what I think is, you know, I'm
40:45
Speaker 2: a really very ordinary person. I'm not talented, but I
40:49
Speaker 2: just am a good example of somebody who can dig deep,
40:53
Speaker 2: can get down there, be persistent. I'm not a dog
40:56
Speaker 2: with a boat, and we can all be like that.
40:59
Speaker 2: Just get the job done. People have said to me
41:02
Speaker 2: the most amazing things kind of about Ragels. They say
41:05
Speaker 2: I was destined for that moment in the Boston Marathon
41:09
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven, And that is such baloney. You know,
41:13
Speaker 2: that was a moment of incredible coincidence. And what I
41:17
Speaker 2: say is destiny is really finishing the job. And destiny
41:21
Speaker 2: is also not ignoring the responsibility that once you take on,
41:26
Speaker 2: once you take on a project or you made a
41:29
Speaker 2: decision to do something, you need to stay the course,
41:31
Speaker 2: stick it out and make it good as much as
41:35
Speaker 2: good as you possibly can.
41:37
Speaker 1: I love that, all right. Well, the question I always
41:39
Speaker 1: wind down with here on the podcast. You have the
41:42
Speaker 1: opportunity right now to give the Catherine running that race
41:46
Speaker 1: one piece of advice, looking back on that Hurtle moment
41:49
Speaker 1: right now, what would you tell.
41:52
Speaker 2: Her, Well, it wouldn't be on looking on that one
41:56
Speaker 2: moment in the race. She did exactly what she should
42:02
Speaker 2: have done, which is to put her head down and
42:04
Speaker 2: finish the race. And that's exactly what I would tell
42:07
Speaker 2: people to do. But over the course of my life,
42:11
Speaker 2: the one thing I would tell Catherine, the young Catherine
42:14
Speaker 2: is you don't have to make it quite so hard.
42:18
Speaker 2: You know, you have a lot more gifts than you
42:20
Speaker 2: think you do, and also you have a lot more
42:23
Speaker 2: resources out there with other people where you can talk
42:26
Speaker 2: about things and share this burden. For so long I
42:30
Speaker 2: thought it was just me and without much support, and
42:34
Speaker 2: actually there are so many wonderful people who would are
42:37
Speaker 2: always happy to share the burden. So that's I think
42:40
Speaker 2: what I would tell her now.
42:42
Speaker 1: Amazing, Well, Catherine, thank you so so much for your time.
42:46
Speaker 1: I know you're quite busy this time of year, and
42:48
Speaker 1: I wish you so much luck in that five k
42:51
Speaker 1: and obviously a wonderful day out there on marathon Monday.
42:55
Speaker 1: It's truly special.
42:58
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you for joining us
43:00
Speaker 2: at the Boston America.
43:01
Speaker 1: Please take a moment and leave a quick review by
43:04
Speaker 1: clicking the link with the description to this episode. We
43:07
Speaker 1: all face multiple hurdles in life, and I want to
43:09
Speaker 1: hear about yours. Reach Out to me at Emily at
43:12
Speaker 1: hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast on Instagram and
43:15
Speaker 1: Twitter at Hurdle Podcast Catherine. Where do they find you
43:19
Speaker 1: on social How do they keep up with you wherever
43:21
Speaker 1: you may be?
43:22
Speaker 2: Please go to two six one fearless dot org. That's
43:27
Speaker 2: the best way.
43:28
Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you so much. You can find me on
43:30
Speaker 1: Instagram at Emily Abadi. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys
43:35
Speaker 1: next time.