Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Mini: What is a Repertoire?

Transcript

Mini: What is a Repertoire? · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we Do what we Do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do? Mini. I am
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: your host Abraham, and I'm yourro Shane. We are a
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: non human animals do and sometimes we dig deep, deep
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: into the philosophy of a single topic, which is what
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: we're doing today. Yeah. Yeah, So I think suffice it
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to say really quickly that if you are joining us
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: for the first time, this is a short form style
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: of episode that we do. These come out on Mondays.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: There are a quick dive into something. We try and
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: keep it fifteen minutes or less, which we've been very
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: successful with the last several episodes we have done, because
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: sometimes we have gone quite long. But we're going to
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: try and keep it short.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: It's well within our repertoire to keep it under fifteen minutes.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Ooh, good, nicely done. We are behavior analysts by training,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and I think that gives us a lens through looking
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: at psychological events that I find particularly useful, and so
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: we're gonna use that lens to try and really objectively
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: break down a concept here that we're gonna be talking about.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But if you're joining us, for the first time.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I hope that you enjoy this. This is going to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: be one that does have some technical jargon, although we
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: are also going to break it down into more colloquial terms.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: And this one is sort of more deep in the
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: philosophy end of things and one of those topics where
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: you hear it and be like, I just don't care
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: about that, and that's fine, But nevertheless, I hope you
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: do enjoy Would you hear today and you maybe walk
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: away from this thinking at least a little bit differently
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: about this topic that than you did when you arrived here.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Either way, if you'd like to support us, you can
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: join us on Patreon, pick up some merch from a merchdoor,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: or leave us a rating and review like subscribe, tell
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: a friends, and I'll talk more about the ways that
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you can support us at the end of this discussion.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I think that that's all I have to say before
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: jump into our topic. Are we ready?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it all right.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: We talk about people's repertoire and having a repertoire, but
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: what does that mean exactly? And what we're gonna do
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: is we're going to describe the different definitions of repertoire
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: that have been proposed, and we're going to provide our
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: own to try and help explain this. And I'm hoping
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: that by describing a repertoire and how we know what
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: it is, the reason it's worth asking and answering this
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: question will become clear because I help, it'll illustrate the
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: sort of thinking that went into why we should maybe
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: not necessarily take this turn for granted, but consider what
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: it really means and what we're talking about as we
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: use it.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: If that makes sense, yeah, I think it makes perfect sense.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: So let's go ahead and dive in. I think we
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: generally understand repertoire to mean things we can do or
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: skills that we have. Right. In fact, a seminal behavioral
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: textbook initially described repertoire as quote, all of the behaviors
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a person can do. Can say that without laughing, all
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: of the behaviors a person could do. So that's everything
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: that we do, all of.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: It's it's just all of it. Yeah, it is kind
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: of funny. So this comes from Latin repertorium, also from
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: French repertoire and an older English version repertory. These different
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: words meant things like the whole body of items that
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: are regularly performed, which was a direct quote, by the way,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and quote the stock of skills and types of behavior
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: that a person habitually uses. End quote. Those are a
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: little bit more descriptive. They're more sort of I give
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: us some more direction. But those are the history of
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: where the word comes from.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So we might analyze a particular set of behaviors or
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a lack of behaviors is belonging to or being absent
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: from someone's repertoire. Indeed, if we are able to observe
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: any kind of behavior or performance, we can definitively say
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: that the person has the observed behavior in their repertoire.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: And something you'll hear us say sometimes too, is like
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: it's in strength in their repertoire. It's not in strength
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: in their repertoire. You'll hear that sometimes too.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, all good points. B. F. Skinner, famous psychologist, described
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: repertoire quite a bit, and he described it as quote
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a behavior which is what a person or company is
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: capable of doing given the right circumstances end quote. I
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: took some out of that quote because he's sort of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: elaborating on that that really wasn't.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Who Skinner long winded, No.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Was not integral to the definition. So I cut that
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: part out. I did that for the second part two.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: He also said, quote, a verbal repertoire is a convenient construct.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: A person is said to possess a vocabulary of so
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: many thousands of words if these words are observed in
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: his verbal behavior during a period of time. End quote.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: That one obviously comes from this book Verbal Behavior from
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, Riveting. So those are some ways that
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: he sort of describes repertoire.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, riveting stuff. I mean, there's clear. It's clear why
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: he's a best selling author and just constantly quoted because
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: he's so easy to quote. Yeah, man, Skinner's so hard
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to read. Okay, So how do we know whether something
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: is or is not in someone's repertoire? How do we
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: know when something should be added, removed, or modified in
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: a repertoire? Abraham, you have answers, right.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Some kind of sure?
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Okay? Cool?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So yes, so we have that repertoire is like a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: set of behaviors or skills. This to me is kind
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: of vague. We are behaving all of the time, sure,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: all the things that we do all of the time
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: our behavior. So it's I kind of I find myself
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: asking when we're talking about a repertoire, what makes one
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: behavior a skill or worthy of consideration as belonging to
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: a particular repertoire but not some other behavior That sort
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: of I'm thinking about this, thinking like, I mean, we're
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: always doing stuff, and what do we mean is to
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: say like that is not in their repertoire, or this
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: is or this belongs to a certain repertoire and this
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: does not, and starting to draw those lines between like
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: all the behaviors that we're doing all the time, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: saying some of them have this special categorization that means
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: it belongs to a particular repertoire of some sort.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Right, So we're gonna go ahead and into this. We've
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: got just a fair warning, technical jargon warning. We are
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: going to talk about advertisements. Okay, obviously we didn't define advertisements.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: We know it when we see it. It's kind of
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: like pornography, right, it's like, you know what it is.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: It's lax definition, it's nebulous, and uh it's a little
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: bit jarring.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, we did define that. We did a whole minyon.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: We did. Yeah, we we we nailed pornography, advertisements not
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: so much, all right, So let's uh, let's talk about repertoires. Okay, So,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: a repertoire is a discriminated operant. That is, it is
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: a class of behavioral topographies behavior topographies that have been
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: shaped and discriminated such that the threshold for measuring these
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: topographies arbitraris. It may be will occur in the presence
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of a salient discriminatet stimulus SD with an available reinforcer.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: So now we understand it, we can end the episode
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: right now. We don't have to explain it further because
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: that was really easy to understand.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, as you know, if you've listened to us before,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: we tend to try and avoid the super technical jargon,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: but I did want to have it in there for
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: those of you who appreciate that sort of thing. Less technically,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a repertoire is specifically observable behavior that occurs in the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: context in which that behavior has been learned. I really
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: agonized over trying to write this as a simplified definition,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to get after the point that when
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a repertoire, it means we're saying essentially
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that there are conditions such that that behavior can and
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: does occur. And when we talk about a behavior, that
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: means that we're isolating some topography of behavior, meaning the
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: way that it looks, how it appears to us as
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: being its own thing, which does make sense. Like our
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: behavior is going to have specific forms that are shaped
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: and reinforced over time to appear a certain way. That's
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: how language works. It's like just very highly shaped, articulate
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: movements of our lips, tongue, and throat as we move
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: air over those surfaces. Sure, and that is something that
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: we learned to do and become very good at, and
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: it has a lot of steps and components to it.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: But all that being said, like a repertoire is these
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: specific ways that our behavior looks and appears that occurs
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: in specific context when it would be available for that
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: behavior to occur. And I like to think of this
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: in terms of like what I also can't do, Like
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: there is no particular context you could create for me
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: where all of a sudden I'll be able to do
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: a triple backflip from a standing position, at least not
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: right now, because like I do not have and have
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: not practiced this skill, so you cannot create a situation
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: in which I can perform it. For someone who is
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: an Olympic level athlete, you could create that context and
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: they would perform that skill potentially assuming that's something that
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: they've done. And so just sort of outlining here the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: fact that, like the repertoire shows that, like, given this circumstance,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I engage in a particular set of behaviors that look
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: a specific way relevant to that circumstance, Like just doing
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: if you go to like go to a cashier and
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: instead of handing the money, you do three backflips from
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: a standing position, unlikely they'll accept that as legal currency.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: They will probably be like, that's amazing, please pay for
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: this now and time. Yeah, some people will probably be
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: interested in that, but not all others. And that is
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to say, because that's not the situation where you do
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: that behavior, that's specific behavior. You do a different behavior
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: in the situation. So that's sort of what I mean,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense, Yeah, yeah.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So Another example would be this, like let's
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: say we have a student that has multiplication quote in
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: their repertoire. If given any single digit multiplication problem, they
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: correctly solve the problem. Does that mean that they understand
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the concept of multiplication. No, we could teach a pigeon
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: to pack out the answer to every conceivable single digit
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: multiplication problem, but we didn't specify that it had to
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: be understood, only that it had to be performed, which
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: is so we nailed it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that is to say, like to say that
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the performance occurred is sufficient to say that it's in
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: a repertoire, whether or not there is additional language around
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: that performance that might we might also describe that language
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: as being understanding if you will sure, and that would
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: maybe be a different thing to say in a repertoire,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: is like, do they have in their repertoire that they
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: understand multiplication? Well, then we're asking a different question. We're
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: looking for a different observable behavior, which is probably that
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: they can explain it would probably be where most people
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: would find themselves that they would use language that sort
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: of indicates that they could talk through it. But that
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: being said, like, I also think you could ask JATGBT
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to explain it and it would be it would explain
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: it very well and still suck at multiplications.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, what.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: These things mean. It depends on the situation. And so
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I guess all this is to say that the Cloquil
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: definition works, It's just a little vague and imprecise. A
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: repertoire is the behaviors that occur in the context in
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: which they can occur and readily do so. So yes,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: in a way, it is all the things that a
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: person or not human animal can do in the right conditions.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Is like a very colloquial way of thinking about it,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to really dive deep into understanding like
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: this is a specific topography of behavior selected by environmental
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: circumstances that then allow that behavior topography to occur in
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the right circumstances where there is some kind of reinforcer
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and a stimulus that evokes that behavior, if you will, right.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: And so as for when we change a repertoire, like
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: where we add, subtract, or modify anything that depends on
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the relevant stakeholders, including the individual, and if change is
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: specifically requested and acceptable to the individual and can be
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: reasonably justified to ensure that they have greater access to
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: reinforcers or or a less restrictive environment, then it is
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: likely appropriate to get to analyze and promote alterations to
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: a given repertoire that basically saying, does this person want this?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Can we improve this behavior? Can we change this behavior?
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and do it as long as they
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: want this.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Thing, and I specify like, as long as they can
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: be reasonably justified, because like some people might ask to
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: change a repertoire of someone where that change is not
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: going to do that person any good, like right, And
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: actually I've I think, as we talked about in our
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: series on ABA, like there is I think a tendency
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: to over emphasize compliance and like following instructions as a
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: way that people behave, And I'm like, I don't want
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: them to follow on all instructions. There are going to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: be people who take advantage of them if they do that,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Like we need to teach appropriate non compliance and right,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So exactly there is an aspect of that anyway that
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: gets a little bit too tangential for us in a
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: mini right now, But I think just understanding that, like
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: there are conditions under which it makes sense to change
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: your repertoire, we're kind of always doing that anyway, Like
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it's always happening to us and we're always doing it,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Like as we go through our sort of day here
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: in life, our repertoire is being shaped. There is just
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a more deliberate way to do it, and like, you
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: have a specific target in mind, and that's powerful stuff,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: and so you don't want to do that without careful
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: consideration and scrutiny. Yeah, absolutely so for non languaging organisms,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: such as non human animals who cannot give consent, it
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: might be appropriate to adjust repertoires when doing so similarly
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: promote safety and well being for the animal. Of course,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: there's a bit of this that's subjective in the eye
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: of the beholder. But for instance, many animal trainers at
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: zoos now use behavior analysis to teach animals to accept
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: medical care. As an example, this allows them to prevent
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: or quickly overcome disease and survive more comfortably for longer.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Of course, we could have a debate over the quality
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: of life in a cage at a zoo and what
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: that means for these animals. But I think alternatively, these animals,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: like they're going to try and give them some kind
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: of medical care anyway, and if they're not using these
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: systems to teach them like how to accept that medical
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: care in a way that is not stressful for them.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Then instead, what they're going to do is use mechanical restraints,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: heavily sedate them, or do other things that use a
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: lot more punishment and aversives to control their behavior so
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that they can perform those procedures. And like that is
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: I would argue worse for the animal than allowing them
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to sit comfortably and accept medical intervention that will save
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: their lives and improve their circumstance in many cases. And
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I also thought about, like what if you go out
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: into the wild and you train a bunch of wild
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: animals to be able to recognize and run away from
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: traps and poachers and like have them therefore succeed more
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: in the wild by the virtue of the fact that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: they are overcoming people who would otherwise hunt them for
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: sport or for meat, And that might also be in
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the best interest of those animals. That is not We're
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: not getting into a discussion over the overall ethics of hunting.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I think that is a very deep, long conversation we
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: could potentially have at some point. But mostly I'm thinking
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: about people who do overhunting, illegal hunting situations where there
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: are animals who are potentially in the verge of extinction,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: or animals that are falling victim to traps and things,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: whether they're not even the intended target, you know, like
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: someone's outright hunting for deer and they end up catching
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: like a danger wolf or something like that. If we
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: could teach those animals to recognize and avoid those traps,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that might also be in their best interest.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sounds good.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: All right, Well that turned into a big ethical conversation. Really,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to unpack what a repertoire was. But
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've more or less explained. Do you
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: feel like we have any more to say about repertoires?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I do not.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, hopefully that this Scott's got you thinking about this,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: trying to understand, like, think about what a repertoire is.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Let's not take it for granted and consider like what
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: we're asking and answering when we think about and talk
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: about these things. If you would like to tell us
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: your thoughts in a repertoire, you can email us directly
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. If you'd like to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: support us, you can join us on Patreon, pick up
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: some merch at our merch store, leave us a rating
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and review like subscribe and go tell a friend, and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: all of those things help us out, and we really
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: appreciate you. If you do join us on Patreon, you
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: get bonus content, AD free content early episodes, and I
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: will shout out your name on our full length episodes.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: But if you don't want to do any of those things,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll just see you back here next time.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And we appreciate you joining us at all for this discussion.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much to my team of people who
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: help make this podcast happen. Thank you all for listening.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that I forgotten that you'd like to
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: add before we wrap up this mini?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Nothing that's not already in your repertoire.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Beautiful Why We Do What We Do Mini is out.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Bye. You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day.