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157-Navigating Faith and Pride · Relish: a Christian podcast

• 0:00
  You're listening to Thursday Mornings with Alex and Don. G-Mad.
• 0:04
  Don is a pastor with 40 years experience. And Alex is just as curious as you are.
• 0:10
  We look at the most important and interesting questions about the Bible and
• 0:14
  Christian faith. So let's talk about it.
• 0:17
  Pastor Don. Good morning, Alex. How are you doing?
• 0:20
  Doing well. Doing well. Got the blood pressure, yeah. I think we do.
• 0:24
  Yeah, pulse check. You found it. You found it.
• 0:26
  Good. Good. Everyone, thanks for joining us today.
• 0:30
  Good topic yeah but i've got a confession okay
• 0:33
  to my fifth graders at colonel mennonite that
• 0:36
  were part of bible school i am so sorry you remember
• 0:39
  that envelope of questions that you guys sent and
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  somehow when we cleaned up this the classroom that
• 0:47
  got missed and so i can't find it so
• 0:50
  i don't have the questions if you would resubmit them
• 0:53
  yeah at the bottom of the podcast cast here we'd be
• 0:57
  glad to answer them yeah so there'll be many different ways where
• 1:00
  you can submit them if you're a parent listening to this you know
• 1:03
  let them know send it in so you can email it it's tmadask
• 1:07
  t-m-a-d-a-s-k at gmail.com facebook page
• 1:11
  youtube comments a bunch
• 1:15
  of different ways to contact and i'll be on the lookout sometimes i'm
• 1:18
  not great about going and actually finding them them all but
• 1:21
  team ed ask is really easy is the best way yeah for sure yeah
• 1:24
  yep okay so yeah i definitely
• 1:26
  want to get those because i there's a lot of people that really you know maybe
• 1:31
  we're not so entertaining on our own but they want to know what the younger
• 1:34
  generation asks yeah and there's a lot of conviction there and and drive to
• 1:38
  get those questions answered and i was amazed at how many of the kids knew what
• 1:42
  we were talking about i mean they brought it up yes oh you.
• 1:45
  Yeah okay wondered what it felt like to be a tv personality well yeah yeah i
• 1:52
  guess really didn't think we were there but hey yeah it's cool thanks kids thank you so.
• 2:00
  We'll dive into this topic today it is indeed pride month okay so it's half
• 2:06
  over and it's half over so and i asked don before we started this just with
• 2:10
  full honesty here i said do you want to
• 2:13
  talk about this and don said must we and i said well we could you know there
• 2:20
  are it's nice to get a a fresh look at it there's certainly a lot of oh what
• 2:28
  would i say i don't want to call it.
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  Propaganda because that kind of lets out that i have a bias towards
• 2:33
  it and i don't really want to say it that way but there's a lot of
• 2:36
  information being thrown from the pro i'll
• 2:40
  say pro-lgbtq side that gains acceptance
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  on it there's a very you want to say something go
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  ahead yeah and i i don't want to say that hey brothers
• 2:50
  and sisters who are struggling with homosexuality this is
• 2:53
  not against you no we understand that struggle.
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  Like the struggles many of us have with sin that's not
• 3:00
  the issue but i'm thinking we've polarized this to
• 3:03
  the extent that it's caustic for
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  both parties and what can we do better and
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  and that's where i'm coming from even addressing the issue
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  right now we want the best for
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  everyone and we want you to find jesus and
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  what he has for you specifically and us
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  yeah because you know we're all in the same boat
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  we just struggle with different sins the thing
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  about pride month that bothers me okay can i just walk
• 3:33
  right into that yeah go for it is the idea of
• 3:36
  pride and and pride is a dangerous commodity
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  in the biblical context because anytime
• 3:43
  we get more full of ourselves and our own agenda then we
• 3:46
  are full of god's agenda that's that's dangerous
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  and pride comes before we fall
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  yeah and and basically it was that
• 3:55
  that pride that that caused even
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  satan to fall from hit from god's
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  grace in heaven and so let's be
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  careful about what pride what we're
• 4:08
  talking about when we talk about pride i wish i had
• 4:11
  a different moniker but it doesn't right and and work
• 4:15
  with it in constructive ways instead of deconstructive ways.
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  Right and i've got a little bit of history
• 4:21
  on why it's called pride month but first i
• 4:24
  want to ask when is pride okay i think
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  we've talked about this before but it's been a very long time right and
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  i think rowan brought that question and he was talking from the context of of
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  i think we can have a certain amount of satisfaction okay and the our personal
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  abilities to do certain things especially if those abilities are confirmed by
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  others that we have those gifts and we can feel good about that.
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  But pride is going over the edge to where, hey, I've got this and you don't have that.
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  And that...
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  That's that's where it's dangerous okay so you
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  can have some like level and it is kind of like a
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  redefinition of the word that makes it acceptable
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  i feel like you know because i think it's you know taking pride in something
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  that you've done i'm proud that i did this not so i'm proud that god gave me
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  the gift to produce exactly or to do this act of service for someone or i'm
• 5:23
  proud that of Of what God's gift has produced.
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  Something along those lines, maybe. But then it kind of, it blurs the line between
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  actually what is pride. Yeah, it does.
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  But when pride puts us higher than God, it's bad. Yeah.
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  And when pride separates us from God's intent for our lives, that's bad. Right.
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  I'm proud of who I am, exactly how I am. I don't want to change.
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  That's not great. Right. No, I agree.
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  That's not great because god will always
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  be living into us right and and we will always always
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  be changing yeah and i'm amazed that about
• 6:03
  every seven years that there's some major change in
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  my life and and ministry or my abilities and that's all right right because
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  god's always working on me i i'm not finished i'm not a finished work yet and
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  i think there is and this This is going to be a good point that is probably
• 6:21
  going to pop up at least somewhere in this conversation.
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  But I'll say this, like, men can sometimes fall into this category of being
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  prideful, especially when they speak to maybe their spouse or to somebody else.
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  Being very truthful, having pride that like, I am very rational.
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  I'm always going to speak the truth.
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  And I'm going to get this taken care. And this is how I'm going to present this topic, right?
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  And you completely leave all the love out of it, right? And it's something I
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  really admire about you, Don.
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  Is like you're good at bringing that gentleness
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  in there that good fruit of the spirit in there you know
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  not just sticking with one side of
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  it i've got a good wife she's taught
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  me a great deal yes yes and and i'm
• 7:08
  along that path too and i'll be honest there's a lot of arguments that
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  my wife and i've been in where it has
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  been realized either by her pointing it out or
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  me later on under reflection just being like you know
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  i even though i think i'm making a good point i'm not presenting it in the right
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  way and it makes a difference i think that sometimes is a point of pride in
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  my head that i have to deal with too because i'm like one maybe good point yeah
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  that just that that concept that pride comes before the fall when we get so full of ourselves,
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  we are not open to somebody else or to god yeah then that's and and i think
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  that's where i'm uncomfortable with the pride agenda yeah because it's closed
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  off the conversation so let's let's dive in a little bit.
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  So Pride Month, why is it called Pride Month?
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  Here's one answer is that Pride Month is named as such to commemorate the Stonewall
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  Riots that took place in June 1969, New York City.
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  These riots were a pivotal movement in the LGBTQ plus rights movement in the United States.
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  And here's some of the reasons why it's called that. So the Stonewall Riots.
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  The community the that community fought back against police raids and harassment
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  making it a significant turning point in the struggle for the rights so they're
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  kind of there's a there's a,
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  pride there as far as the the activism the activism about the pride that the riots overcame,
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  right the protests and
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  demonstrations were led by people of that community
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  so there's a pride a little bit of pride there
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  so these are all like very common ways to define that word to me i think anyways
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  so from those you've got the pride of getting past something that was holding
• 8:54
  them back in the past right kind of like how we might be proud of the founding fathers for
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  putting their lives on the line to start a revolution to become the united states
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  yeah Yeah, have a tea party. Right, exactly.
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  So the term pride was adopted to celebrate the LGBTQ plus identities openly and affirmingly.
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  It signifies a rejection of shame and stigma historically associated with those
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  identities and instead embraces self-affirmation, dignity, equality, and visibility.
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  I think the rest of these things on that probably don't need to be brought up
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  because it just says, you know, the celebration and the global impact of it.
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  It so that's the pride part of it and
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  what kind of drew me to it is because
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  what some of the argument i've heard is that it's not it's not just that we're proud
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  it's not all about pride it's about and then they
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  say these things self-affirmation dignity equality visibility
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  some of those things aren't bad and
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  some of those things are i agree yeah i i
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  i have a
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  hard time seeing where to go that i was trying
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  to do is find a way that pride is a when i was a kid
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  okay i mean there's not like there hasn't always been this element within our
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  community right okay and when i was a kid it wasn't you know wasn't so proud
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  but it wasn't that they were you were gonna slam them and they were welcome
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  at every family gathering and it's not like that stuff was going on we all knew it
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  was there but it's so much i mean it's just really like it's promoted and i'm not sure,
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  promoting himself yeah i'm
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  having hard time with that yeah it's not like it needs to be closeted and that
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  kind of thing but my goodness i think we've sort of gone overboard right so
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  i think there's the the aspect of that that might be hard for people to understand
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  this is me trying to kind of make a, what's that called?
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  Not a straw man or steel man argument which is something where you're trying
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  to make the others make an argument for the other side since then since there's
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  no one here representing that,
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  work that's not lost on us um so i'm trying to do my best with this is that
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  there are so there's so much oppression there's so much attacks on that community
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  that the idea of be who you are and be
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  proud of that and kind of rest on your morals
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  right there's some of
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  even that in the bible as far as like
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  rest on what is right what is good what is true right and
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  that's kind of what is being projected and it's just kind of being
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  labeled as a pride thing but it's about self and
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  that's kind of the part where i have a problem with yeah the self
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  part anytime we promote ourselves that's pride right and
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  i'm not sure that's what i'm not sure
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  that's what the better part of that community would be about okay well
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  let me ask you this are you proud of the way that god made you i'm happy
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  with it yeah okay but i'm
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  not perfect nor do i think everybody has to be like me okay you got me there
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  i thought i was gonna get you say yes but i i'm i'm happy right you know but
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  you know there's things i'd change and there's things in my my my physical i'm
• 12:12
  trying Trying to take care of that.
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  But my emotional, there's times that I need to groom that and work on my emotional
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  state and my spiritual state.
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  I'm still wanting to grow in my walk with Jesus Christ.
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  I'm still trying to grow as a believer. How can I be a good witness of the faith?
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  How can I reflect my Jesus best into a world that, who is this guy?
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  Right and there's so much misinformation
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  about who jesus is for sure that somehow
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  we need to embody it in a new way as the
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  body of christ the church and so i yeah i'm happy and but i i'm not proud right
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  right and i think that is a big difference so if you're going to redefine what
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  pride is at least understand that that's what you're doing because that's definitionally
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  we We can look at the Bible.
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  The Bible defines it very, very well. Well, it does. Right?
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  To the point where, you know, even with my children, I heard like something
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  a while ago. It's just like, you know, I don't say that I'm proud of them.
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  Because if you look at what that means, it doesn't make sense.
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  Oh, I'm with you. I'm well pleased. I'm happy with who you're becoming.
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  Even God says, well pleased rather than proud. Exactly.
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  And there's a very different idea behind that, right? It's much less of self
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  and more of just general happiness, joy that you get from God.
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  Fruit of the Spirit instead of something that pride would definitely not be.
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  Not be. Okay. Correct. So...
• 13:48
  Good old chat GPT helped me out with some of these things. So I asked it defend
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  pride month against Christians.
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  All right. Oh, so it'd be interesting.
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  Super interesting. If you don't know what chat GPT is, this is the artificial
• 14:03
  intelligence language program.
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  You can type in chat GPT into your browser or on a search engine.
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  You can find this and you can ask it questions and it can give a pretty comprehensive
• 14:14
  list. It's going to take place about.
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  Well, it could get close. it'll argue with
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  itself if you tell it to it's a pretty uh pretty incredible
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  but like we've said before when we talked about this these programs
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  you know is it is at the end is it it's no it's
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  it's knowledge it's not wisdom right correct so i said defend it against against
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  christians and i did have to correct that and say traditional christian values
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  okay which i thought was interesting but let's see so it said it's important
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  to approach discussions about pride month with With empathy and understanding,
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  especially when engaging with different viewpoints, such as those from Christian
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  perspectives, here are some points you might consider to engage respectfully.
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  So, this would be from a viewpoint of pro-LGBTQ towards Christians.
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  So, it's about human dignity and love.
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  That's why we celebrate Pride Month. It's about inclusivity and acceptance.
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  It's about combating discrimination. It's about a personal journey and faith.
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  It's about historical and social conduct.
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  Context and it's about dialogue and understanding and that's
• 15:20
  why it's okay to be involved with pride month
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  and support lgbtq plus activities yeah
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  i still have the the thing about okay we we talk about drinking yeah and you
• 15:34
  can drink but drunkenness is a sin right and we talk about human sexuality but
• 15:39
  adultery is a sin even you know heterosexual adultery is sin yeah and,
• 15:47
  Yet we're running up against this wall saying that homosexuality is a sin. Right.
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  Where scripture seems to be fairly. Right.
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  I'm wondering why. Right. So why is it a debate when scripture is so clear?
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  Right. And so how can we openly express our love for anyone who's struggling with any sin? Yeah.
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  And yet be clear, sin is still sin.
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  Right. It's still missing what God has intended for us to be and do.
• 16:21
  And sin is wrong. Right. And it separates us from God. We've got to deal with it.
• 16:28
  But sometimes the way we've dealt with it in the past has actually alienated
• 16:33
  rather than drawn individuals towards Jesus.
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  Right. And so how can we do this better? Right. And I'm not sure that the Pride
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  Month is helping the discussion from the other side.
• 16:48
  I see. So that's where I'm coming from. Yeah.
• 16:51
  That makes me uncomfortable, but... I understand that. I think that the other
• 16:55
  side, it is a kind of a proclamation, and they've got a lot of backing.
• 16:58
  Obviously, there's lots of places that hold parades and celebrations for this
• 17:03
  event to say that there's enough people behind this that you better not try to do anything.
• 17:10
  Or something like that. It's a part of culture. Now leave us alone.
• 17:14
  But it's more from that to now instead of... And this is the difference between... What was that?
• 17:20
  The second one. So the second one says inclusivity and acceptance.
• 17:24
  I have a problem with this one, you guys.
• 17:27
  The acceptance part I have a problem with. So...
• 17:31
  I think i heard you say at one point in time it's about tolerance
• 17:34
  not acceptance and i think i agree with that because accepting it is that's
• 17:40
  the that's the that's when you take empathy too far i think right you feel the
• 17:47
  pain of that the the person who feels alienated who feels,
• 17:52
  estranged from family that won't talk to them or someone someone doesn't like
• 17:56
  them they don't like True. I feel that way all the time.
• 17:59
  If someone doesn't like me for some reason, I hate that feeling.
• 18:04
  But there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance, especially when it
• 18:08
  comes to sin, right? My wife tolerates me when I don't get the laundry at the right spot.
• 18:14
  She tolerates me. In the same way, does the church need to fully accept our sin?
• 18:20
  Or does the church tolerate us
• 18:22
  as sinners in each other's presence who are going to sharpen each other?
• 18:28
  I don't want the church to accept if I'm an alcoholic that I come in on Sunday morning drunk.
• 18:34
  That's not acceptable. but if you
• 18:37
  would tolerate me long enough to get me to a different place that would be the
• 18:42
  activity of the church and why identify as a sin doesn't make sense to me i
• 18:53
  identify as a sinner right Right?
• 18:56
  So I love someone. I love... I'm a liar. You love me.
• 19:02
  You love liars. But you hate lies. Right.
• 19:06
  That's difference. So why identify and be proud of being a liar?
• 19:11
  It doesn't make sense. Okay. That's kind of the odd point there.
• 19:15
  That's the awkward point of this.
• 19:17
  Right. And I think that's the part of it that I'm a little bit uncomfortable with,
• 19:20
  is there's a lot of people saying like it's definitely okay to love
• 19:24
  who you are for this reason and then when that side says it's not a sin that's
• 19:31
  where we get into a little bit of hot water and now we can't really understand
• 19:35
  that communication anymore and i don't see why that's so difficult yeah and
• 19:39
  we're not trying okay i think part of it is the conversation to this
• 19:44
  point has gotten derailed to the humanitarian issues from the.
• 19:53
  Not ethical moral issues and and
• 19:55
  we're not fleshing out okay if if the human
• 19:58
  homosexual and it's only a part of the community i mean
• 20:01
  are we talking probably 10 percent now used to
• 20:04
  be four percent for homosexual or would
• 20:07
  openly identify as homosexual i think it's
• 20:10
  10 to 12 percent now openly yeah or openly
• 20:13
  openly doing that and there's a
• 20:17
  piece of it says that this has been been hidden and
• 20:20
  now it's been it goes goes the full other
• 20:23
  extreme yeah as if i
• 20:26
  feel marginal i have been on the
• 20:29
  edges i'm going to identify like this
• 20:32
  and get some notoriety and i
• 20:36
  see that among teenagers okay because i'm
• 20:40
  different now i'm identifying differently i when
• 20:44
  i see that among teenagers i say oh katie bar
• 20:46
  the door because we we aren't we're doing
• 20:50
  it at a point in life when we really
• 20:53
  are claiming identity that may
• 20:56
  not be ours for life but once you
• 20:59
  get in that lane it's really hard to get out of it right
• 21:02
  i understand that and i don't think it's very i don't know i have a little bit
• 21:07
  of a problem with that because it doesn't make a lot of sense why Why we would
• 21:10
  say that someone is choosing to be a LGBTQ plus whatever they want to be for
• 21:15
  notoriety because we know for until like two years ago,
• 21:19
  all the years before that, it's not getting you notoriety.
• 21:22
  You're getting persecuted for it in one way or another.
• 21:25
  So it doesn't make sense why that might maybe explain the uptick a little, but I don't know.
• 21:33
  Attention, even negative attention is attention. Sure.
• 21:37
  And I know kids tend to do that. There's definitely attention-seeking behavior. For sure. For sure.
• 21:43
  Because I'm tired of being a wallflower. Yeah. And so I do this activity for
• 21:49
  attention. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
• 21:52
  It feels kind of icky to put it on that, but... That's only a part.
• 21:58
  That's only a part. But I've seen it happen, and the kids I see it happen to, I question. Okay.
• 22:06
  Now, is there a loving way to talk to someone about that?
• 22:09
  Because no no doubt there's going to i don't know what i'm going to title this
• 22:12
  episode yet and if you're listening or watching this there's already
• 22:15
  been a title and boy i don't i'd like it to be
• 22:17
  non-inflammatory right to make it a good discussion
• 22:20
  but it's not lost on me that you know there's no one from that
• 22:23
  community here right and so
• 22:26
  i don't want this to be a rally against them so if we have friends and relatives
• 22:30
  we could invite you know yeah yeah i i yeah i i think it's maybe going overboard
• 22:37
  Pride Month is going overboard yeah and I if you're walking in that in that school of thought hmm.
• 22:46
  Give it a second thought. Yeah. That's all I'd ask. I think that's okay to say.
• 22:49
  Yeah. And I'm open to conversation.
• 22:53
  And if we want to talk more, let's talk. Let's talk.
• 22:58
  I think that's a great way to describe that. And I don't think...
• 23:03
  We know that the Pride Month kind of is a result of intolerance.
• 23:09
  Which is pride on the other side. Which is pride on the other side. For sure it is.
• 23:15
  We've got it right. You've got it wrong. Right. You can't ignore that on both
• 23:18
  sides. It's definitely happening on both sides.
• 23:21
  But one side has a lot bigger population behind it, I feel like.
• 23:25
  Or you definitely used to.
• 23:28
  Definitely used to, for sure. But even then, I go, okay, so we have a cultural
• 23:35
  norm, a cultural morality that comes out.
• 23:38
  And I think that can be changed over a course of years.
• 23:43
  We've seen it happen in the United States. I would just nudge a little bit closer.
• 23:48
  Let's reflect a biblical culture, a culture that's spoken into by the word of God.
• 23:54
  And that means here's the biggest problem with that.
• 23:59
  We don't have enough people who actually know the primary text well enough to
• 24:06
  help us with our culture.
• 24:08
  Yeah and you know
• 24:11
  there's the walter bergman's it's they've had
• 24:13
  its own controversy because of his
• 24:16
  stance but he has read the text and he's very
• 24:20
  good at at the text so they help inform us right right and there are i tried
• 24:28
  very hard for a long time to find someone that could use the bible to refute
• 24:35
  what I had been learning.
• 24:38
  That same-sex attraction, or not necessarily attraction, but the actual sin of homosexuality.
• 24:45
  I'd heard all my life that was a sin.
• 24:47
  And I really tried hard to find a way or find someone who could rationalize
• 24:53
  it or make an argument for how, wow, the Bible says it's okay.
• 24:57
  And boy, do I have a hard time. I think Matthew Vines comes pretty close he
• 25:02
  was pretty young he got a lot of prominence because the speeches that he did,
• 25:07
  but a lot of emotional arguments a lot of empathetic arguments and i think that's
• 25:10
  kind of where it lies and it's it's not lost on me that like i am empathetic
• 25:15
  to those communities i i do feel that yeah so sometimes i struggle with this because it's like,
• 25:20
  boy it feels like this is hate sometimes you know a couple of homosexuals i
• 25:24
  know are celibate. Okay.
• 25:28
  And we know they have homosexual leanings, but because of who they are in Christ,
• 25:35
  they've chosen to be celibate. And that's not a sin.
• 25:41
  No matter how you look at it, no matter what side you're on,
• 25:44
  if you look at them, you say, that's not a sin. You have to say that, right?
• 25:48
  Well, because it's homosexual activity that's talked about in the text.
• 25:52
  So they are choosing not to sin. I think that should be. They're choosing not to sin.
• 25:56
  Right. Just like the alcoholic chooses not to drink. Right.
• 26:01
  And the sexual addict chooses to deal with his addiction.
• 26:06
  Those are things we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
• 26:11
  And we must acknowledge that in the midst of this discussion and say,
• 26:16
  my brother's doing good. He's addressing it.
• 26:21
  I can kind of tell this is a little bit taxing on you, but there are some people
• 26:25
  that I would say, oh, that's cruel that they went to a church where it was so
• 26:29
  oppressive towards them that they couldn't live who they fully should be.
• 26:33
  It's like oh okay i'm not
• 26:36
  sure where to go with those kind of arguments like aren't you being kind of
• 26:39
  like the you know the over you've been in you've been reading only leviticus
• 26:45
  too much you've been reading leviticus too much you know you're following just
• 26:49
  the law you're not following the heart of god and acceptance and that kind of
• 26:53
  stuff you don't have any grace right yeah yeah.
• 26:56
  And i see that as an impressive form on them that
• 26:59
  we'd be like we're so happy that you're choosing this path
• 27:02
  right no no okay i
• 27:05
  didn't know if there was any other thing to like
• 27:08
  say about that it's just like well yeah i don't i don't
• 27:11
  yeah god just doesn't want us
• 27:14
  to continue in sin yeah because it
• 27:17
  it grieves his heart right and in
• 27:21
  the end if we're in a
• 27:24
  religious group to serve ourselves yeah
• 27:28
  we're in the wrong religious group right if we're
• 27:31
  in a religious group to serve the god we worship then
• 27:35
  we do it his way right and and that's what i'm saying part of this dialogue
• 27:41
  ends up being do i need to have it my way if i need to have my way that's pride
• 27:46
  i mean that's ultimate pride if i have to have it done my way right because god has given
• 27:53
  us his word, and told us the way he'd like us to live.
• 27:57
  And that goes far beyond this issue. Right.
• 28:00
  Into a lot of other moral issues and cultural norms that we should be living into. Right.
• 28:08
  Part of it is our society right now, and in the post-Christian era,
• 28:13
  is trying to throw the Bible out completely. Oh, yeah.
• 28:19
  And even some denominations say, well, that's just a myth.
• 28:24
  Don't worry about that part. Yeah, don't worry about that part.
• 28:26
  Just hit the others, you know.
• 28:28
  Or at least some of the others, you know. And stay tuned.
• 28:31
  We've got in a future episode we're going to do a list of a list that was made
• 28:38
  by an atheist organization about
• 28:40
  all the contradictions in the Bible well this ought to be fun spoiler,
• 28:45
  spoiler that gets a little information ahead of time I'm
• 28:48
  going to be excited but just so you know that's the one we're recording next
• 28:52
  in this room no I don't have time to repair at all so anyways there is one more
• 28:59
  part to this that I I kind of like to bring up and I touched on it a little
• 29:01
  bit is this as empathy portion and where we confuse love with empathy.
• 29:08
  And it, and this, and I, this is part of a, I would say most of the time,
• 29:16
  a female brain thing is this empathetic portion.
• 29:18
  Cause I wish I had more of it. They're much better at, you know,
• 29:21
  they can see something, a struggle, you know, even with my own kids that cry
• 29:27
  because they did something wrong.
• 29:29
  I'm like, Like, yeah, you're in timeout because you just, and I'm, I have a hard time.
• 29:34
  So what are you crying for? You did it wrong. Feeling really bad about it.
• 29:37
  Well, because I know that it's going to be okay, you know, and that's most of it.
• 29:41
  I don't like that he's sad or anything like that. But, you know, it hurts.
• 29:44
  It hurts. It hurts my wife's heart more. And I like that she feels that way.
• 29:51
  So that empathy for that community, I think, is getting confused with love.
• 29:56
  Because then if you don't accept them, then you're not being empathetic to their feelings.
• 30:03
  I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but you're not supporting them,
• 30:08
  and therefore you're not loving them.
• 30:10
  Yeah, and those are all file tabs for what they're looking for.
• 30:15
  But do you have my friendship? Right.
• 30:18
  This love thing, I mean, there's what, five definitions of love in the Greek,
• 30:22
  in the New Testament. And so we don't have the same terms in the Bible.
• 30:28
  For love, we love a hamburger and we love our buddy. We love our wife. Right.
• 30:33
  Same word. Let's get real.
• 30:35
  But love to accept someone.
• 30:39
  Well, what does that mean? You're, you're, you're my buddy or you're okay.
• 30:44
  Or I accept everything about you or I accept 90% of you. Yeah.
• 30:49
  Yeah. And, and those are big terms for what they're really wanting is, can you hear me?
• 30:57
  Do you know where I'm at? Do you even give a rip? And that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.
• 31:05
  I hope we covered everything on here. I did have some, you know,
• 31:08
  different Bible verses that the LGBT community would kind of use as far as how
• 31:14
  they would justify Pride Month.
• 31:17
  But I think we hit on almost all of them.
• 31:21
  And then like the last one is, you know, just like to judge not lest you be
• 31:25
  judged. And we've talked about that one before, too. Right.
• 31:28
  There's a discernment level on that.
• 31:31
  So i guess with that in mind will you can you pray us out and can we pray for
• 31:35
  you know compassion with also healing conversations and and respect okay heavenly
• 31:44
  father we thank you for the privilege of being together and having conversations
• 31:47
  even on difficult subjects and we do pray for,
• 31:52
  anyone who feels far from god and unacceptable heavenly father we pray for the
• 31:59
  healing of those who are our listeners, that they would get a sense of your
• 32:03
  peace and your presence,
• 32:05
  no matter where they find themselves this very day.
• 32:08
  And to those who are struggling with same-sex attraction and all the parts of
• 32:14
  that, we pray, Lord, be with them. For you know them better than we.
• 32:20
  You know their heart better than we do. But may they feel our care and concern,
• 32:26
  this very day as they listen to this broadcast.
• 32:30
  We pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and risen Savior. Amen.
• 32:35
  Amen. Well, like we said, that was a difficult one for us. We're not sure if
• 32:40
  we want to do it. I'll go get a Tums. Oh, yeah.
• 32:43
  That's kind of how I feel too. But if we didn't, if you think we got something
• 32:46
  wrong on that or something, give us... That's what the conversation's about.
• 32:49
  Exactly. That's what we want. Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:52
  So yeah, we're not using this platform for him to try to be hateful
• 32:55
  in any kind of way just kind of trying to talk about it so uh yeah
• 32:59
  just let us know yeah we really love to continue it sometime so lord willing
• 33:03
  yeah well everyone thanks for joining us we'll see y'all next week lord willing
• 33:08
  bye thanks again for joining us for this week's episode we are both having a
• 33:13
  ton of fun making these videos and episodes and if you're are having fun too,
• 33:18
  please tell a friend about this and help us to grow this mission. Thank you and God bless.