Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Activists Around the World: Elmer Lucille Allen

Transcript

Activists Around the World: Elmer Lucille Allen · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And today, for our activists around the world, we are
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: going to celebrate the works of 95-year-old chemist and ceramicist
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Elmer Lucille Harris. I do want to timestamp this. This
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: today is August 25th, 2026, because one— It was Annie's
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: birthday yesterday, August 24th, 2026. Happy birthday, Annie.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little shout out. A little late because, you know,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: this is going to be the next week, but still. Also,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: it was actually Miss Harris's birthday, 95th birthday recently as well,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: the 23rd. She turned 95 years old. And I thought, wow,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: what a better way to celebrate that. On her birthday.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: For her birthday and your birthday. So this is like
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a together birthday. Two amazing women. But we're going to
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: be talking about Miss Harris. Anyway, moving on. But with that, Annie,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: this actually kind of feels like a crossover with the
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: original intent for a happy hour. Because Mrs. Harris actually
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: worked for the Kentucky Distillery Brown Foreman, who is behind
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Jack Daniels. and many others in Kentucky. So I thought
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: that was really interesting. I do want to say at
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: one point, one of the interviews that she was on,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: they asked her what her favorite drink was, cocktail, whiskey, whatever.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: She was like, yeah, I don't drink. I think y'all
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: should drink responsibly. Which is what we say. Yes. Drink responsibly.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: We agree with her. But just to say that, that
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: was a really funny part of our interview. Anyway, moving on.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: So let's jump in. Harris was born in Louisville, Kentucky,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and was named after her father, and I believe so
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: was her younger brother. So both she, her father, and
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: her younger brother were all named Elmer. But she went
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: by Lucille or Syl, while her brother went by Bud.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So in an interview with Bourbon Women, she talked about
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: her childhood and said this. The period that I grew
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: up was segregated. I was born in 1931 to Ophelia
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and Elmer Johnson Hammond Sr. I was the oldest of
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: three children. My mother worked in service as a maid cook,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and my father was an L & M Pullman porter.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Neither my father or my mother graduated from high school.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I went to school with African-American students who were taught
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: by African-American teachers. My sister and brother did not graduate
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: from high school, and I took courses at Central High
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: School that prepared me to go to college. And she
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: talks about taking chemistry, taking Latin, taking civics. So in
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: the same interview, she talks about having a stutter around
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: age 12, being younger. but really working hard through that
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: to practice speech. She apparently took extra English courses with
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: teachers so that she can continue to practice. And later,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: she would end up giving the commencement speech in her school. Like,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: she got through it. She definitely worked through that. Afterwards,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: she went on to Louisville Municipal College but soon transferred
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: to Nazareth College, which is now known as Spalding University,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: where she majored in chemistry with a mathematics minor. So
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: back to that same interview, she says, there were no
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: grants or scholarships in 1949. I paid my tuition by
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: working at the college, St. Augustine Catholic Church, babysitting, housecleaning, etc.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I attended Louisville Municipal College, LMC, the University of Louisville
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: College for African American students from 1949 to 1951 when
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: it closed. LMC offered survey courses in English, mathematics, science,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: social studies, etc. When LMC closed in 1951, because the
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: day law was rescinded. So the day law was a
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: law to segregate the students, not allowing for the Black
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: students to attend school with white students. So that was rescinded.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: And so that's when integration started happening. So continuing again
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: with that interview, when LMC closed in 1951, I went
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: to Nazareth College, I had to take 12 hours of
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: religion and philosophy. In addition, I took science, mathematics, psychology, English, speech,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: and other required courses. Nazareth graduated its first two African-American
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: students in 1951 with the help of the other alumni.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: There is an endowed Patricia Lauderdale Bell Barbara Miller scholarship
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: for 2014. I graduated in 1953 with a bachelor's of
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: science in general education with a major in chemistry and
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: a minor in mathematics. So with her degree, she stated
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: there was only two people that graduated with a chemistry degree.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: But with that, she was not able to immediately get
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: a chemistry job. She would go on to work as
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a civil servant in Indiana, but soon would go into medtech,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: which brought her back to Kentucky, which then would allow
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: her to move on from medtech to research chemist for
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: the American Synthetic Rubber Company. And this would all lead
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: her to Brown Forman R & D. So back to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that interview, she said, my first position was as a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: junior chemist. I analyzed raw materials, corn, rye, and malt. Eventually,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I moved to other positions within the R & D department.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I retired in February 1997 as a senior analytical chemist.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: She was the first Black woman chemist for the company.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: In fact, she was one of the few women to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: have a non-secretarial job, as well as being the first
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Black person that worked there at all. So she kind
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: of just broke some boundaries. especially when this big of
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: a company, which I guess wasn't that big. She talks
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: about it later, how it was a small company, and
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: that she was able to walk down the office and
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: see the president and the CEO, and it was like
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: a small family, she said. So here's a bit from
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: an article from AmericanWhiskeyMag.com. She began working as a chemist
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: at Brown Foreman in April 1966, at a time when
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: few women were in the workplace, and those who were
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: there found themselves in mostly secretarial roles. She joined a
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: team of three other women who worked in the research
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: and development labs on the first floor of the production building,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Maggie Boston, Bessie Welsh, Marge Plamp. While Elmer analyzed the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: whiskeys and their raw materials, corn rye malt, she said, quote,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: no one did the same job. Everybody had their own
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: little job. She remembers the deep impact of watching the
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: first woman enter the executive role. And I saw how
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Lois Matias went up the ladder, and it was amazing,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: you know. Looking back now, she says, I'm glad to
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: see women in roles now that weren't possible years ago. Like,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: she really did see some things and was able to, like,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: grow within a company, which is so rare these days.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like she's just an icon in herself. So
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: during this time, she was able to help her own
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: children push the boundaries other than social norms. After her
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: sons were not allowed to play baseball within their little
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: league in their community, she and her husband formed an
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: integrated league, the Little League in Chickasaw Park, which allowed
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: for her kids to play. Which... It's just... But that
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: had to be done. And that's still a conversation that
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: we have to have. And I'm glad she's able to
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: talk about this. Because, again, this happened in someone who
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: was alive's lifetime. So it wasn't like a long, long, long,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: long time ago. Which is what makes me sad. And
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: also makes people realize how recent these things were. And
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: all the while, in the 70s, Harris began her journey
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: in the art world. So this is from artandscience.louisville.edu. In
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the late 1970s, to better cope with arthritis in her hands,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Allen took a ceramics course from an art therapist at
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Seneca High School. This class inspired her to take ceramics
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: and fiber class at Metro Arts Center. So a bit
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: more information about that from the SD2. org about her artwork.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: They say, throughout her time at Brown Foreman, Allen took
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: art classes. She first began ceramics in the late 1970s
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: as a way to help with arthritis, but she regained
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: the passion for creating that she had as a child.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Soon she was taking courses at the University of Louisville
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: and working with prominent Kentucky artists, being embraced by the
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: art community for who she was. I have not experienced
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: any discrimination as a woman artist or as an artist
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: of color, Ellen told Louisville Visual Art. My work does
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: not depict any culture. It speaks for itself. I create
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: work that I enjoy making. And yeah, her love for
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: art also led to her leading in general. She founded
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: the Kentucky Coalition for Afro-American Arts, which she has led
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: for over 10 years. And with that, she has continued
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: to learn. She got her master's in ceramics from the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: University of Louisville, I want to say like 2017. So
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: back to SD2 article. My thesis exhibition consisted of stenciled
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: wall hangings, Allen said to Louisville Visual Arts in 2017,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: and over 200 reduction-fired porcelain sculptural boxes that were placed
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: on boards on the floor, which meant you had to
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: view the pieces while standing. Right. So this was her
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: exhibition piece. And 2017, I'm like, ma'am, why are you
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: so motivated? You're making me look bad. Since then, she's
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: had several more exhibits, including in 2020, titled African American
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Women Celebrating Diversity in Art. And in 2023, which was
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: titled Remembrance, which was a collaboration with several other artists.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: So you can actually go and look up, I think,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: local news and see some of her art pieces as well.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: And they're beautiful. She has definitely earned a lot of
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: accolades for her works, including being honored by the Kentucky
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Black Bourbon Guild. As well as in 2004, she was
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: given the Governor's Award in the Arts, Community Arts, which
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: she was the first recipient ever. She was given the
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Women of Distinction in 2004. She was given the Parkland
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Rising Up Project in 2016. I love this. She was
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: also Woman of Spunk from the Actors Theater in 2007.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: And then she also was Louisville's Free Public Library's Pillar
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: of Louisville in 2019. She has had so much more
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: as well for her accolades in the world of bourbon. Obviously,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: she broke a lot of barriers. We've talked about how
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: hard it is to be a part of that community
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: in that world. And for her to have been in
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: this field in 1966 is phenomenal. And the fact that
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: she got to retire there. So, yeah, I love it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: When I find something like this, it just makes it
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: so interesting. This also could be a movie, Annie.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. I love how her story jumps from here
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to here to here. Art, chemistry, what else? What else
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: can I do?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Well, listeners, please write in if you have any thoughts
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: about this. If you have any suggestions, we would love
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. Our email is hello at stuffmannevertoldyou.com.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: We're also on Blue Sky at Mom's Self Podcast and
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuffmannevertoldyou. We're also on YouTube.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau and we have
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a book you can get wherever you get your books.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer, Rima, and our
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: executive producer, Maya.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuffman Never Told You
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.