Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Tower Shakes & A Fount of Power - The Gathering Storm chapters 40 & 41 - EP536

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The Tower Shakes & A Fount of Power - The Gathering Storm chapters 40 & 41 - EP536 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Do you
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: want to start preambling on what are double header is
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: going to be today?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're doing a double header today because it is
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the Battle of the White Tower, And do you just
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: going through the whole thing today? We're gonna try and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: knock it all out in one go through because again,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: just like the last two chapters, it's one scene broken
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: over two chapters because it is quite long, but I
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: think it works really well as one episode.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, neither one is titled the Battle of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the White Tower. If you talk to anyone in the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: fandom and you say the Battle of the White Tower,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: they know you mean these two chapters, because how could
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you not, right, Yeah, it's one episode. It's one episode,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and it's such an action scene that I'm confident we're
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: going to get through this in a reasonable amount of time.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Right, Right, And like The Dress is Green sort of
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: had a similar thing, but that was mostly it ended
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: in one chapter, or it sort of started at the
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: end of one chapter but was mostly in the chapter
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: after that. This is actually just both chapters.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a slight time jump in the middle
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to just allow for the fuzziness of the battle continued here, right.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: They shows the beginning of the battle and the ending
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: of the battle, but not really the middle of it.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: You get like a good idea of what everyone does
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: going into the battle, and then you catch up with
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: them at the end, like and then you can you
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: can fill in the details in the middle. They don't die,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: but they have a lot of harrowing escapes. That's how
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the middle of the battle went, tadah, and.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: We get some summary of how many died and all
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: that kind of you know, totals and stuff. At the end.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I think there's plenty to talk about, totally, totally, totally
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: lots of page time is spent on just like really
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: cool visuals.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so there's definitely gonna be some reading in here,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I think, Oh yes, yeah, great action scene. This is
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the stuff where I think Sanderson really shines when he's
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: writing these kinds of you know, you really want to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: be able to see it and visualize it and cool
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: battle scenes and cool moments for the characters and iconic
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: visuals written down on the page.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, this is one of the ebook covers
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I think, right, is that one with Agwayne just sort
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: of flung back using Vora's songre All to just blast
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: rocking out of the sky. It's one of those pieces
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: of art. This is just such an iconic moment, and yes, Sanderson,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Sanderson does it justice. Like I mean Agwaine says, I
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: want this to rival the Last Battle for its ferocity,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and like for a one woman army, she definitely gave
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: as good as she possibly could for a that like
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: this is so epic and Sanderson makes it so epic
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and yeah, one episode.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Well, and I love the way he cranks down on
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: the mechanism of circles and on all to bypass the
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: fork route, right, Like that's definitely him cranking down on
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: the mechanics of how channeling works in a way that's
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: very Sanderson of him.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: And we do love a hard Magic system moment.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely definitely taking advantage of the hard Magic system
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: beautifully in a way that makes you go, oh, that
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: is a really cool way that she could have gained
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: power in a moment, gone from nothing to very powerful
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: in a very short period of time, Like I think
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: you really really mastered that.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's delicious, so we should probably get
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: into it.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, grit usin. I think it's what this is yours?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, Chapter forty, The tower shakes and our symbol is
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: the shan Chan helmet. Swan awoke with a start. Something
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was wrong, something was very, very wrong. She scrambled off
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: of her palette. As she did, a dark figure moved
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: suddenly on the other side of the tent, metal rasping
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: against metal. Swan froze, embracing the source reflexively and summoning
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: a globe of la Gareth Brands stood alert heron Mark Steele,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: drawn and ready. He wore only his small clothes, and
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: she had to keep herself from staring at his muscled body,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: which was in far better shape than that of most
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: men half his age. What is it, he asked tensely.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Light Swan said, you sleep with your sword always. Agwain
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: is in danger? What kind of danger? I don't know.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: She admitted, we were meeting, and she vanished suddenly. I
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: think Alida may have decided to execute her, or at
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: least pull her from her cell and do something to her.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: And that's basically what this entire plot arc does for
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: this chapter is the push pull between them as they
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: work their way towards doing the.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Thing, doing the thing, and what drives me nuts, and
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: we'll get to this in the second chapter, but at
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: some point she has to admit the point is no
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: longer saving again from Elida from the shawn Chan, because
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: at one point they're withdrawing. The battle's over, right and like,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: and her goalposts change multiple times. First it's saving her
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: for Elida, then it's saving her from shawn Chan, then
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, uh, and then the shawn Chan are gone,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: but she has to pull her out anyway, which doesn't
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: make any sense unless you're going back to your original
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Alida problem. But that's not why you charged in there,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: because your justification for going in there was the Shawn Chan,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: not Alida's. Uh uh. Yeah. The least favorite part of
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: this chapter is Suan's weak ass excuses for going in
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: there and pulling her out and her inconsistency right.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, her and go and teaming up makes a lot
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of sense, But I.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Just feel like Suan's smarter than that, you know. I
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: just feel like, it's.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: No, it's weird, it is weird how her goalposts change,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and it's yeah, she just never admits that her real
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: goal is to kidnap Agwayne back because she's more worried
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: about the rebel camp right than about resolving the conflict
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and trusting Agwayne. She's like, no, the rebel camp's going
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to fall apart. It's my right to decide for you
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: how to handle that, which again is why she pairs
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: great with Gowin for this part.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: The two of them are doing exactly what Agwayne has
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: told them not to do by not trusting her, not
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: treating her like an adult, not treating her like the ambulin,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: and listening to her commands.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Gareth Brynn, you know, goes along with it
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and enables it to keep them alive. And she forgives
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: him for that. She's like, you made bad calls because
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the option was to let people you care about go
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: on a suicide mission. I get it. You didn't come
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: for me. You came for them because they couldn't be stopped.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Like that's I like that. She forgives him for it,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: while also making the knife twist even harder for the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: other two.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Sue one's like, well, she should have,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you know, if it was something that was unexpected, she
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: should have come back to sleep and let me know
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: that there was no problem, which basically means Suan's going
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: in there and ruining her plants because Gwaine couldn't be
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: bothered to text back, right like, yeah, she left me,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Like I'm going in there after her because she left
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: me on red. It's like the most it's like a
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: mother texting her daughter are you okay? At a party,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: not giving a response, and then like calling the police
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: and crashing the party.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, totally, especially once you see what's happening, Like
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I could totally see being like we have to go
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: in and protect Agwayne. But like if it was the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Shawn Scherner withdrawing and were so deep into enemy territory,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: we still need to find her. What if you had
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: just stayed with her, slapped her awake, channeled at her
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: to give her some energy something to be like a GWayne,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: what do you want us to do? We're here now,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: tell us what to do. Like, yeah, she was exhausted,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: but you don't think you couldn't.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Have like wiped away the exhaustion.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, given her a little power juice to like she
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: only needed five minutes to tell you what to do
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: and then she could have gone back to sleep. But yeah,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the goalposts move in a way that feels inconsistent to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Swan's overall intelligence, and I wonder, yeah, if that's bad
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: writing or if that's Swan's own trauma clouding her judgment.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll go with Swan's clouding her judgment because
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: she's always been this stubborn I know what's best Amerln
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and like we've seen her move beyond that a little bit,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: but I'm willing to without Agwainne de Geider, I can
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: see her reverting back to that a little bit.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, especially with respect to Alida. Right, Like,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Swan has some very specific trauma around Elida and making
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: rapid decisions, So I wonder if that helps excuse it,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: because she's like, well, normally I would trust you, but
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: it's Alida, so I can't let go in the same way. Yeah,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It feels like it was necessary for
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: plot rather than to stay true to Swan's character. And
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I don't like the plot developments that happen, So I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: just don't like it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. Yeah, Swan, I would have liked to
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: see her not lose some of the growth that she
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: gained following GWayne.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but also, like you said, a GWayne hasn't been around,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: so it could be easier for old habits to reassert themselves.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And she's had like make decisions on her own without
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: guidance and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I feel
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: like the next conversation happens three or four times between
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: several different characters, but between Brinn and suon where he
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: goes they're flying on channeling shadows spawn and they go, oh,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: that must be Sean chan because it's actually rock and
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: until rock and and channelers on their backs instead of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that happens like in a bunch
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: of different places.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Well, right, because we move from something is happening at
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: the tower to something involving channeling and fire is happening
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: at the tower to oh shit, that's Christ. Like we
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: get those those little bits of information dripping out of
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: servertime because we're far away from the tower, right, like
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: they are across the river.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: But happens in tower as well, in like both places,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: like in two different places.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's hard for them to, you know, figure
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: it out quickly, but over time they figure it out. Yeah,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: we know, it's just this is what noticing that the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: tower is under assault by the Shan Chan from the
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: air looks like this is how that information propagates through
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the population.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I just wish more people were like, oh, Shawn Chan, Yeah,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: that's what those flying things are, right, But I guess
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: they're so far away.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. Is the only reason that these people
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: know is because Igwayne had her foretelling dreams and made
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: sure everyone knew this is what's gonna happen. But yeah,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: they're hundreds of miles away from the front lines. The
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: regular run of the mill person has not accumulated this knowledge.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: This is only people who listened to Agwayne and remembered
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: what she was talking about, who were gonna put that together, which,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: like she did her best making sure people would know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: but a lot of people were like, yeah, yeah, whatever,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen or gonna happen for months. Only
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Swan and a few other people like really committed those
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: details to memory. I think.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: So I have to draw parallels to nine to eleven
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: with this, right, a city far away from the front lines,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: thinking they were safe being attacked by a flying creature
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: in a raid that was designed to do something that
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: we really weren't considering. That left people feeling unsafe and uncertain.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the only difference is the leaving with hostages part right,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: right right, and like leaving with important information that really
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: changes the war, Like that's the only difference. But yeah,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the Inviolate tower burning and falling down on the city around.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, the tower itself doesn't fall, but pieces of
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: it definitely come hurtling downward. Yeah, there's there's definitely some
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: parallels to we thought we were safe, what the hell
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: is happening?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: But then it kind of makes a way in and
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: not like this conspiracy theorist is like, they're gonna attack
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: the towers, and I was like, good, yeah, sure, He's like, no,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: they bombed the basement, Like it's gonna get worse, right like,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and everyone's again, nah, that'll never happen.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's less the conspiracy theory side of it and
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: more just the sense of like, our stronghold is on fire, right,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: we didn't think that was possible, and it came from
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the air with none of the ground assault that you
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: would expect. And Yeah, in the Tomorrow Pierce series, it's
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: not the Alana books, but the Kel books that come
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: after Alana. There's a scene in the fourth Kel book
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: where the fort gets attacked, and I read an author's
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: note or essay a couple of years later or ago,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a couple years ago, I guess where she talked about
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: how she wrote that immediate aftermath of the attack scene
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: as sort of a response to nine to eleven, Like
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: that was part of how she processed her feelings about it,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: was writing this scene of like a place that was
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: supposed to be safe, that had been all trashed and
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: destroyed by the enemy, and that was like part of
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: how she worked through her feelings. And it was like
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: when I then went back and read the book, I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, Yeah, I can see it.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I can see how she grafted nine to eleven trauma
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: into this fantasy world to like work through it. And yeah,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: this does not have any of the same visuals, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: there are some certain emotional undertones that feel the same.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And this came out in what two thousand and six,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I think, right, So yeah, yeah, you know, with a
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: significant lag time after you know, nine to eleven to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: sort of you know, be in the psyche of the author,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: right and still be fairly fresh right as we de
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: live with the aftermath of.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: It, right, Yeah. Yeah, So but also you know, anytime
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: that your stronghold has attacked, it makes you feel unsafe.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I mean that's not unique to nine to eleven.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Well no, but I mean you have a tower which
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: has a hole punched in it, you know, two thirds
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: of the way up right, with a smoking hole coming
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: out of it. Right, The visual is.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: There, It's that's true, that's true.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one is two thousand and nine, thank you,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: pants I it was early, yeah, late, sometime in that range,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: but certainly after yeah, well after well after yeah, And
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just it's not necessarily a hard comparison,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: but there's it's hard for me not to see the
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: parallels there.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: That this one's even more visually weird.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And the self sacrifice we talked about, like the blood Knives, right,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: who are sacrificing themselves to do as much damage as possible.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean they're working on bringing
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the tower down in a more symbolic way than a
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: little way, you know, also quite literal. If you can
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: bring down the power structure, then the building doesn't matter
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, but also remember this entire scene is
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: happening at night. Everything that's happening here, people are figuring
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: out through the veil of darkness.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's this this part argument then between Brennan's
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Suan about how he's like, you gave your word not
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: to go in a rest and she's like, well, loophole, loophole, loophole.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And he's like, oh god, I'm getting really sick of this,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: like breaking your word with loophole's shit, and she's like, well,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I'm doing it anyway.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: She's like, well, guess who else you're sick of, and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: then heads towards Colvin, our favorite character, and then POV
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: break and we switched to inside the Tower where the
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: good stuff is.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Why are the worst POV's always Gowen involved. It's just
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: it's not so much that I hate Golwin as I
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: hate reading about Golin.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Anyway, about a GWayne. We join a GWayne in the tower.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: The tower shakes in the very first sentence of this
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: paragraph where the tower shakes repeat, and then when the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: tower stops shaking in the second chapter. It's a noticeable.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Event, right because it's Agwayne fighting back.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, It's very much worth tracking. But yeah, we
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: join Agwaine and Nicola more or less where we left them.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: They're working their way down the hallway, and Nicola is
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: still not completely convinced that it's not the last battle yet,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and Igwin's like, it's freaking the shan Chan and I'm
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: going to freak out. Gwin definitely has a moment where she,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you know, is a small, terrified, traumatized girl who dealt
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: with being in prison by the Sean Shan and then
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: all her work in the dream and the real world
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: thinking about herself as Omoline pays off right.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say her.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Backbone like armors up and she decides to go beast
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: mode instead.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: No, she pushed yourself upright. No, she would not flee.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: She was Amberlyn.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then she has this moment that reminds me
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: of sore Leia, a woman who has notably stuck up
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: for her as being in awesome eyes to die let
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: them come a GWayne Rard opening herself to the source. Blessedly,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: enough time had passed to dull the forecruits slightly and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: she was able to grab a faint trickle of the power.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: It was tiny, perhaps the least amount of power she'd
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: ever channeled, but she's like, it's enough if I can
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: open myself up to a little bit I think I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: can do more like I don't care if I'm weak.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it work for me. And it's just
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: like Sorilya is correct to put her pride in you totally.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Sorilia is very proud of you right now. She just
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: got a surge of pride wherever she is and she
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't even know why.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: And in a lot of ways, you know, I feel
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: like the what she's able to do is take inspiration
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: from someone who can't channel very much right and figure
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: out a way to turn that into not necessarily advantage,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: but how to overcome that weakness. Is like, as long
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: as I can channel, I can make a circle, which
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: is something that Sean Chan cannot do it. I think
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: it's a really effective tool against the Shawn Chan, right,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: is the idea of a circle of channelers because the adom,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: like she says, prevents that.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I love that their own wickedness prevents them from being
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: effective against her. I love that they have the seeds
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of their own destruction just built in. Oh, you can't
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: consent to being in these circles, Well, guess what other
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: circles you can't consent to being in any any power
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: amplification not for you.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Makes me wonder if the shan chan could even use onngre.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: All right, yeah.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Because that was sort of like they would have to
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: pull that power in through the onngre all and that's
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: not something they're doing. They're pulling it, I like the
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: soul doom. Would we have to be the one who
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: would have to because they're in control of the circle, right,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: so they would have to connect to the adom.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: But the Demani is the one that's actually channeling exactly.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: H Yeah, that's an interesting question. Can they bring a turangrill? Well,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: they've already got a turangriill in the ADM picture, but yeah,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: could they bring it on onre all?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Into the circle? Sure, in the bowl of the
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: wind circle. If you're in a circle, you can a
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: circle that you each joined willingly. You can embrace an
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: on griol we'reat But because the a dom prevents them
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: from joining the circle outside of the a dom, would
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: it prevent them from using it on grell? Right? So
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: the circle created by the adam is something very different
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: than a normal circle or is it?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: That's kind of yeah?
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Or is it right? Like? And so that's where well,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: because it does it has this restriction on it and
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: that you cannot form a circle among channelers.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: And we do know that opening yourself to another channel
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: or and opening yourself to an ongreall are very very
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: similar processes. We know that that's the same. So if
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you can't open up to another person, does that mean
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: you also can't open up to an object that would
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: give you amplification?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: And I believe that's the case. I don't think we
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: ever see a demane using on griol.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: No, we never see that, not.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: In a not in a caller, right former demani?
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Sure, but like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, Yeah,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: we don't ever see it. And it makes sense, right
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: because Demani don't get possessions, So like, why would you
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: ever consider giving an object of power to a demani,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: even for the duration of a channeling event, Like that
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: seems very antithetical to their entire concept of being.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Right, So socially you wouldn't give them one. But also
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I have to wonder if like part of that reason
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: they don't have any possessions is like they you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: on GREA all aren't something they can really use.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: And if they can't have possessions and they can't hide
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: in angriall. Maybe there's some really old reasons that have
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: been sort of lost in the midst of time, or
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: they just can't use them, and so the whole concept
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of Onngrioll has just fallen out of lore for them.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Right, because we don't really see any shan Chan be like,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: oh we want they have tearo on Grioll. Sure they're
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: able to use those, yeah, but those are usually used
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: by channeling into them, not by having them join you
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: in the circle of power.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And even once the shan Chan join our side that
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: none of our guys on the side of the ocean
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: ever suggest giving on gre all to the shan Chan channelers.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: There's few enough for the Westland channelers. They're definitely not
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: trying experimentally to see how the sean Chan would do
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: with them.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think the fact that she can use
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Vora's songgreal and that she can join the circle are
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: both things that the sean Chan cannot do.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd agree with that. I don't know if we
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: have canonical evidence for it, but close enough.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: The lack of evidence is not evidence, but in this
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: case it's it's compelling enough that I think that logically
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the lack of being able to join a circle means
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you should also not be able to channel using it onriel.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: So Agwayne goes out and basically she has She's like, Okay,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I know what I'm gonna do. I'm going to form
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: these circles and finds the novices. And these are all
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: single serving novices, right as far as I can tell,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: every year serving.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: It was like yogurt cups, single serving novices.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: It's actually a reference to Fight Club.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: She talks about single serving friends on airplanes, people you
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: make friends with on the airplanes never see again.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've only seen that movie one, so I don't
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: have all the dialogue memorized. But yeah, I forgot about
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that line. That's like one of the opening lines of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the entire movie.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's because, yeah, they're on the airplane. So
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: this would be a single serving. I said, I, right,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: this is one we only ever. They're only ever in
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: this chapter. We meet them once, we get to know them,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: and we'll never see them again. All these novices.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's Nikola and then all the other novices, right,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and some of them get names, some of them don't.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: But Yasmin Ytari and Nala.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think any of them if they got
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: mentioned in any other things, it was as classmates of
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Agwayne during her Tower arc.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: With the wiki says they were not mentioned.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, so yet Literally it's Nicola is the face of
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: all the other novices. She's the one that we have
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: to remember. Yeah, and Gwaine says, here, I will protect you,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I promise. And when Nicola dies later in the battle
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: with Massana in the Dream Tower, she thinks back to
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: this moment, being like, well, I can only protect you
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: if you stay where I fucking told you to day
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: because Nicola is, you know, in the battle against Agwayne's wishes,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and it's like it's so sad because Agwayne promised to
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: protect her. But she also thinks like, well, I did
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: tell her to not come into this battle, Like that's
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: what happens. You had to listen to me in order
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: from my promise to hold I was protecting you.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I feel like Nicola and Aaron have some parallels, right,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: this person who's like loyal to one of the main
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: characters but doesn't really listen to them that well and
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: kind of goes in their own direction and then ends
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: up dead and the character's like, I told you something
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: else and you didn't do it. I don't know how
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: to stop you from dying in that situation, right, Like
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I can't be there.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Right. It's a better case scenario than with Aaron, because
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Nicola died trying to protect Agwayne rather than trying to
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: kill her. But they're both dead. So you know, it's
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: unfortunate for our main character that they lost a follower
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: due to said follower not really listening to the person
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: they idolize. But she lived through this battle, which is cool.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah. Agwain's idea is basically, find the novices get
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: enough power to travel to the basement where the ingreol
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: are so she can get an ongriel that allows her
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: to use those novices to become a one woman army.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Mm hm. And you know this scene always brings up
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the question of what the fuck are the Chosen doing?
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Truly, truly, you're telling me that Chosen couldn't figure out
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: where this room is and gateway into it really clearly.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: You know, I get that it's got all the protections
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: you know, from walking in although Fane got in there right,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: no problem, but it has no protections from the gateway none. Right,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: we are beyond that point in history where they thought
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: they had to protect from gateways because gateways didn't exist,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: and the fact that the forsaken frequently Bemoan they can't find.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: You've got Masana there in the tower, who could have
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: compelled anyone at any time to go down into the
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: to open up the store. Tell her where it is,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: open it up and ransack it and distribute that to
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: the forsaken, you know, extract a price from the other forsaken, right, Like, yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: this is just one of those things where the tower.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Why the tower Store of Onrel wasn't rated by the
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: forsaken was one of those things that I think I've
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: always wondered, like did Jordan just overlook that? Did you
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: just not think about it? Like I get that all
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: the other ones, like the hold in the Heart of
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: the Stone wasn't well advertised, no one really knew what
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: it was. No one knew about the store in Rudi,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: and those were always secret. But like the old Malloye
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Tower should have been fucking rated by the forsaken.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially given a bunch of black Aja did
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: take a bunch of turungriel from the tower and fled.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And didn't bother with the rill or the song reel.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of loose ends hanging around there. And yeah,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: if Agayne had triggered a trap on her way in
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and gotten you know, completely killed, like just walking in
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the room, then we would know. But she doesn't. She
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: just waltz is in there, grabs what she needs because
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: no one's ever thought to raid the place before, and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: then goes and kicks ass. It's a very weird loophole
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: plot hole.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would, I would put this solidly in the
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: plot hole category, right, like, I just I don't see
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: an explanation for it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the information exists, the availability exists, the means, the
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: motive the characters, Like, there's no reason why this room
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: isn't a bare empty room. It should be cleaned out,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Vora song Greal should be in Masana's possession already, really.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: And certainly that you know, these characters don't need to
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: learn the tower to teleport around like they've lived there
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: for years, right so they you know, So the gateway
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: stuff is all on the up and up as far
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: as I can tell, and they're doing short distance gateways,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: which should also be easier.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she knows exactly where in the tower she's going.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: The tower feels like home.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I love that she has the power of
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: like four people and she's like almost as much as
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I can do on my own.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I know, right, because like these women are, you know,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: not notably weak. It's not like they've been selected for
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: their weakness. They're just random novices. They're probably reasonably strong.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And she's like, ah, four, I'm back to eighty percent.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: That's good enough.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Swan thinks about how she can't use a gateway, like
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: she used to be able to make a gateway, but
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: she can't use a gateway. She can't make a gateway
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: anymore because of how weak she is. Agwayne at eighty
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: percent or whatever is able to make a gateway, Like
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: that's how strong she is. That even not fully back
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: to capacity, she's like, well, a gateway as well within
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: reach now excellent.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And it also kind of shows you the overlap between
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the male and female haves, because there's lots of men
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: who can't make gateways.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, I think it's harder for them. I
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: think it's a higher threshold, okay. And also I just
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: want to point out these novices Agwainne thinks of them
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: as being all flighty and screaming and being very you know, childish.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: But like, in five minutes they managed to learn this
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: new trick. I'm like, that's honestly pretty impressive. Like these
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: are people who are like in an active war zone,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: woken up out of a sound sleep and thrust into
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: their home being an active war zone, and they are
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: learning a new power maneuver, calming their minds, doing the meditation,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: getting the thing, practicing the move. Like, that's impressive.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It is impressive. It is impressive. They only have to
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: join once and then they're in, right, they don't have
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: to like do it multiple times. But yeah, it's like
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: they don't have to master the skill. They just have
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to get there once.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: But it's nice, right, But they're like watching each other
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and like trying and managing, you know, Like it's it's
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: very impressive. She leaves her a couple of minutes and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: comes back and they are ready to go. They have
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: organized themselves into little batteries that she can use.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Well, she's a good leader.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Supposedly they all look up to her a lot. Like
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the novices of the White Tower in particular, have really
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: been taking a lot of their lead from her and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: getting ready for this moment. Of all the different groups
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of women, the White Tower Novice isn't accept it are
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the ones that are most set up to help her.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And in a lot of ways, it's like she has
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: created this new generation of novices and accepted both by
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: recruiting from outside the set age group and recruiting in
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the rebels, and then also winning over all the novices
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: in the Tower, and that combined with having like you know,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: the battle ends up having an uneven effect where a
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: lot of the isid I are taken and killed and
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of the Novices survive. And then you combind
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: that with the purging with the Black Aja, right like
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: where she takes out another group of isid I, it's
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: obvious that what's left, you know, is this group of
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: even after Gwayn dies, there's going to be this massive
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: imbalance of women who admire and find her example to
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: be the right way to do things, and then this
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: tiny minority of relatively weak, small group of isid I
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: who were going to claim the tradition. She's changing the
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Tower in immense ways.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and she.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Should have been alive to continue that you don't like
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the choice to killer anyway, Nope. Do you want to
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: go through the things that are in the Room of.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Power, Yeah, let's do that.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: They're unreal and the unreal Yeah, crystal globes.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming like the far seeing and talking.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Devices, sort of the traditional like.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, palentteer, it's a palateer.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Just be careful looking through the eyes of Saurron may
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: come out on the other side, like, be very careful.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you do want to be careful with those. They
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: might have a virus.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: No, they're connected to the network, right exactly. Small exotic statues,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Like the animals that have never been seen before. I
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: feel like that's often what they describe these as, like
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: birds and beasts that people have never seen before. The
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: metals to be like animal human hybrid type things. They
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: don't have to be like exotic dancer style exotic. They
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: could just be you know, fanciful human animal hybrid type exotic.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: And these could be mixed of tearanngreoll. I don't really
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: see any hint to their purpose right, like going through.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Them, I'm assuming it's a mix of things. Probably a
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: lot of terranngri all with different purposes. Probably some are
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: very mundane, some are very frivolous, some are quite serious,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: probably with no sorting whatsoever.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: A glass pendant which reflected blue in the light. I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: mean that to me feels like an ongreoll.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That yeah, just something like a beautiful focused stone
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: that seems like it's going to be an ungre all
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: rather than any kind of terranngrill.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: A large set of metal gauntlets lined at the cuffs
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: with fire drops.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: That's gotta be something cool.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I imagine these are control cuffs for something bigger, right,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: that you have some sort of like digging machine or something,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and these are like the control cuffs because I feel
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: like we've had helmets that control things before, right, and
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: so these are like I feel like metal gauntlets that
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: you would put on to like control gloves.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally exactly right, Yeah, like heavy equipment. Yeah, that
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: metal gauntlets with fire drops. It's some kind of like
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: a big heavy like mining equipment or something maybe like
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: works with rockets, because.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Like we've seen like the helmet to control showings, I
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: think is what that was, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's just so many, so many things
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: it could be from so many different ips, it's like, yeah,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: gauntlets with fire drops on them, that's something cool. It's
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: something cool either that or it is like a big
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: power up thing. But I given the show wings helmet,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I really like the equipment control idea.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Or I mean it would be also cool to be like, oh,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: you put those both on and you're covered in a
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: whole set of armor. You just put on the gauntlets
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: and everything else is like power controlled sort of a. Uh,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: those create the force field or whatever, and you activate
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: them by touching the gemstones together. So I mean there's
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: all sorts of things you can come up with, right, because,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: like we certainly know the paralis net has all sorts
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: of cool physical effects and armor like effects and things
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: like that. So I mean, form doesn't necessarily follow function.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: With Taran Greol, that's what makes them so interesting.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the channeling built the top of them has very
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: little to do with the function and the form that
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: they're in.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: And then you have things in the world that aren't
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: really built, that aren't tyranungrial that are still seem to
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: be objects of power. I'm thinking the Portal Stones and
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the Horn of Valier specifically. Yeah, and I have to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: wonder if those weren't somehow created. I always think that
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: the horn has to be created by the dragon somehow
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: in his moment of being able to control the world.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: But anyway, we can talk about that later.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Then she finds the one that matters.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she gets for a song real right.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Which is literally a wand she literally finds a wand
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: she finds a magic freaking wand so yeah, she now
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: is completely powered up to superhuman levels. She's ready to go.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: And she goes back to the novices, and I noticed
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: one of the novices asks like, are you escaping? She
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: has not the first person to think that. In those
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: two chapters, multiple people are like, wait a second, are
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: you leaving? Can I go with you? Why haven't you left?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: You could have left this whole time? Take with you?
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Like this is a theme that repeats, and every time
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: she's like, no, my job is to be the White
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Tower in every sense of the word. And now she
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is all kitted out. All she needed was one magic
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: wand and now she is ready to defend the White
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Tower so aggressively that she is why the battle turns.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Which I mean that is it's like giving Ran the
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Chodren call, right, like maybe not quite that level of
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: powerful maybe like collandor, but still, that is a battleship
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a bunch of tanks.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Uh huh.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an incredible advantage.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Well, and she has like chandlers backing her up too, right,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: she does have you know, a circle.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Five other groups of circles. Right, so there's the they're
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: holding off the soldiers. So she has the novices fighting
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: the soldiers. And I do really like the way she
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: links them up. She puts the person with the most
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: skill in charge, not necessarily the one with the most power. Now,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: in the wheel of time, there's been a certain level
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: of like the more powerful you are are, the quicker
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you can learn things. There is that level like nineve
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: can learn anything just by seeing it once. And that
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: seems to hold for the channelers who are at her
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: level of power.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but still she knows all of their relative strengths,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: and she's like intelligence matters the most when it comes
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: to leading a circle because people are going to die
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: if you're a dumbass, So you.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Have to know when to strike, how to strike, how
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to defend yourself.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, and you get the strength of everyone in
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the circle behind you. So there's no wasting of strength.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: There's only wasting of a slight edge in learning. You
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: don't need to learn. You need to keep your people
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: alive and kill the enemy. Like that's all you need
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: to do today, realistic.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I think we've talked about this, but teaching a group
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: of novices how to form a circle should really be
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: one of the first things they learn, because seriously, that's
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: how you teach, right, isn't that one of the things
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: that land Fear the Asmodian says to Rand, He's like,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: if you really wanted to learn from me, land Fear
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: would hang around and put us in a circle, because
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: that is the quickest way to learn and guide somebody.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Is basically we're both in the circle. I do the
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: channeling and you're gonna feel it.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that should be like week two, we learned how
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: to link. That should be like after you learn how
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: to seize the source, the next thing is how to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: be in a circle with someone, and then the rest
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: is downhill.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe we want any evidence the eyes that I do
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: it backwards and probably make it much harder to learn.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Is instead of like, okay, bring you into circle and
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: teach you stuff, so that you are skilled as you
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: gain power, They're like, no, no, no, no no, we don't want
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: you to teach you anything. You have to like be
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: really careful. And I feel like they're backwards in all
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: their ways of teaching. It's the BLA gotcha.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And POV switch to Swan. We get some literal igwayin
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: will be mad about it now, but she'll be thankful
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: about it later. Rationale from Swan, which is just like, no,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: that's not how you show respect to someone is say well,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you'll thank me later. That is never the sign of
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: actual respect. Don't do that to someone. You'll thank me
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: later means that you're convincing yourself to do something that's
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: really really messed up when it comes to someone's free
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: will and autonomy, unless you're like literally a doctor and
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with triaging people, because at that point you
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: are qualified to make those choices. Lots of people have
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: decided you're allowed to do that now, and yeah, Gowan
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: just is super down to do literally anything. Swan says,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: will you take my help in getting you into Tarvallan
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: as repayment for my life and Godwin before she even
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: finishes the damn sentence is saying, yeah, yeah, totally, totally
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: all you want to It's fine, let's go. Like he
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: just just is so single minded. Even when we get
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: into his POV later, he's just so happy to be
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: doing something, and it's like, you do realize it. Sometimes
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: not doing something is the most helpful thing you can do. Right, No,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: you don't realize that at all. Never mind.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Hmmm you know what would make someone single minded? Being
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: compelled thinking what the small head? Well, okay, that does
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: feel like compulsion sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I don't
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: want to do this? Why am I doing this? Oh right,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: yeah I don't.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Evolution unfortunately, really gave us a real on
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Oh god, why yeah no you fuck hormones, man, you
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: don't control your own brain.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: As I was saying earlier, getting on hormone assistance helped
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: with my entire life. Hormones more than your gut. Even
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: hormones are the true brains behind the operation.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Like, fuck damn it, glands controlling my.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Hormones literally literally.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Ask me again, why I don't believe in for you will?
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: No? I don't. I don't. I don't need that perspective,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: got enough issues.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I like the argument that Brin makes that like,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you've made oath breaking far too convenient, Suan, and I'll
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: be a habit from you. He's like, I will not
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: be a party to do you breaking your oath again.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: He has, you know. But then like he just gives in.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: He's like, sure, fine, you're going in anyway, I'll make
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: sure you're not dying, Like this is this moment of resistance.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Then he's like, yeah, I give up.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: With the small head, it's a theme in this chapter.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: It is it is Swan is literally using two men's
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: inability to think past their fifees to completely screw up
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Agwayn's plans.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: So Brinn makes her promise to do two things. The
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: first is that he bonds or as warder. The second
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: turns out to be that he marries her. She marries him.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. His demands are let's be completely bounced together
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: for the rest of our natural lives, to the point
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: of having like a magical problem with the other one dying.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Which is like, okay, maybe communicate about this a little
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: bit more. But like it's been coming for a while.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: They've been on this path of they've been dating for
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: a long time. She's been sleeping in extent. Like, yeah,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, in whatever world this is dating, and this
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: is Robert Jordan's version of people dating. Whatever the two
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: of them have been going through. It's very antagonistic, it's
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: very argumentative, and it's a very typical love story that
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Jordan creates.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's inevitable with what he's done. But yeah,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: everyone who preferred Swan to not be with Gareth Brine
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: is upset by this development and wishes that it would
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: not happen. But yeah, it's like, clearly they've both been
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: getting interested in each other for a while. It's not
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: truly out of the blue. We all saw it coming.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: This is not a Moraine and Tom.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Situation, which I don't think was out of the blue either.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: They were She was a mighty fine woman for quite
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: some time, and that gap when they didn't see each
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: other was actually the shortest period of time in this series.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: M that's fair, even though it felt like forever. If
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: you'll dial it out in real time from her disappearance,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the last battle is in only about six months, I think,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: whereas the rest of the books are like a year
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: and a half.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I mean the part where Tom was
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: willing to like completely go on a suicide mission to
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: save her. Clearly he had feelings for her. It wasn't
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: like totally out of the blue. But it also surprised
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: me when it first happened in the books in a
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: way that this did not. This felt like it was
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: telegraphed way more obviously than.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: That, for sure, for sure, Yes, yeah, no, this was
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: her blue eyes and her being in the tent and
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: her constant anger at him. Right, Like, Moraine and Tom
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: just didn't necessarily think about each other that much, which
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I think is why it came out as a surprise.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly exactly Brennan's one have clearly been thinking about
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: each other. We have spent so many pages of them
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: thinking about it.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, we never really get Morin's
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: we do. Moraine's take about who she knows who she
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: will marry is I think the most we get out
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: of her, right, and then you're like, oh girl, wait,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: you know who you're gonna marry? Who? And then the
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: sort of you look around and be like who have
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: you been fond of or who's been fond of you? Right?
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Like it's not going to be land.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I just always assumed that she was being sarcastic.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I never thought that it actually was a reference to
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: anything real. I thought she was away girls to let
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: go have a you know, relationship with a dog if
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: they needed to. Like, I thought it was one of
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: those comments, you know. I didn't think there was anything
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: more to read into it. I never gave it a
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: second thought.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: It's one of the many reasons why Maureene was never
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: gonna die, right is she knew who she was going
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: to marry, and she hadn't married anybody yet, so she
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: can't have died yet.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I always figured it was her commenting and how
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: she wasn't going to marry anyone and then just moving
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: on with her life.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: That's a fair That's that's totally fair.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I clearly I was wrong about that one. Yes, yeah,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: like that's just all right.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: And who knows now that I know the truth, I
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: don't remember what I thought back then.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, but anyway, Brind's reaction to getting bonded is
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to go more or less what Godwin thinks later on,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: which is, you need to get every man who can
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: be bonded right the fuck Now, This would make such
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: a big difference in every martial conflict that we have
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: to deal with between here and you know, the little
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: al last battle and all that that entails. Like every
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: soldier who can be bonded should be bonded, Like why
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: are you not doing this in droves to the armies?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: What the hell? Like they both have the same thought,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: and Swan is very dismissive of it, but like I
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: see where they're coming from.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I do too, Yeah, because it's a small advantage, but
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: every contest becomes you know, comes right down to the edge,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: and so a small advantage over all these soldiers would
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: make a big advantage.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, especially for an elite force, especially for people
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: who are trying to be on the front lines of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: like doing really important stuff. Like it makes sense that
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: isidized personal bodyguards have this, but like surely there are
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: other special forces that could benefit from it and make
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: a really really big difference. And yeah, there's a big
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: hazard when they die, that is an issue. But like
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I can see where Gareth Brynn is, Like, my soldiers
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: could do amazing things if they just had this extra
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: five percent speed advantage.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: And That's where I'd come down on. Is any isidie
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: who took on multiple many many many warders who were
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: going into battle would inevitably lose some of them and
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: be incapacitated by the grief and the loss of a warder,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: and often many times over and so all of a sudden,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: for to give up slight boost to some of your warriors,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you're taking a bunch of your isidi off the field.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a problem, but like, maybe you should figure
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: out how to engineer something that could help instead of
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: just sequestering it behind it. We don't think about that
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: sort of wall of.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Silence, some sort of energy boost bond that didn't have
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: the same sort of permanence of a word bond.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Right like the eyesid I. We even talking about that.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: When it came to dealing with the men who could channel,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: the Red Sisters were like, yeah, we think we could
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: modify the warder bond to allow us to keep men
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: who could channel on a leash and at arm's length.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: We think we could do both. So it's like that there,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: if you right, I'm just saying, like the option to
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: tweak with it is there, Like the concept of playing
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: with that bond is not off the table, and yet
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: no one's ever thought of how to make that apply
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: to like the entire tower Guard, Like, I don't know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: seems like a missed opportunity, but alas, we just have this. Really,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: this is, honestly, in my opinion, one of the best
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Like men are from Mars, Women Are from Venus comedic
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: moments Swan's thoughts here she rolled her eyes men, she
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: had given him a deeply personal and emotional connection to
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: another person, the likes of which even husbands and wives
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: would never know, and all he could think about was
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: how much better he might have been at sword play.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, he later does think about it, how much
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: of a bond it is and stuff like that, but like, yeah,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: his first instinct is like, oh, I feel good.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: And just the way that she thinks about it, the
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: way that she rolls her eyes with these words, is
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: just so like this is actually a funny moment of
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: meta from Mars and women are from Venus. I actually
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: find it amusing, just the way that he the way
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: that Brandon Sanderson like frames their two thoughts about this moment.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: It's just I'm like, okay, I'll allow that one. That
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: men are so silly and women are also silly. This
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: one hits for me. This one's funny. Most of the time,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I just roll my eyes and wish that it wasn't there.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: This one actually like tickles me.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Man flexes. Women are like, can you just feel your
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: emotions for a second?
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, like this is a deeply complicated and emotional thing,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and you're just like, girl, I can jump tall, I
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: can jump tall, I can words.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, and he says, I'll tell you the second
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: little later time. We find out in chapter forty three,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: so three chapters from now.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: He can't hold that idea in too long. He's really
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: really wants to marry her. He's not going to hold
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: onto that secret for a while.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: And there's this moment that I really love where he's like,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: I can sense your emotions. I can sense ooh, and
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: he can tell that I half want him to demand
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: something indecent of me. Susan realized aghast bloody ashes, and
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: he's like, ooh, you dirty little song.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah you thought she was such a prude, but I
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: feel her emotions. It turns out.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I'm busted for horny, busted for horny. Smack enough going
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: horny time out so on.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: He had no idea she was that into.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: He's like, well, I wish she hadn't been sleeping on
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: the palette all this time.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Right, He's like, damn, I should have popped this question
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: a long time ago.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: So immediately after feeling that, he's like, I'll get my
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: best one hundred guys. Yeah, anyway, you need to survive
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: this absolutely.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, I'm gonna bring it like the very
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: best body I can, because this is not dying before
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I have a chance to take you to, like not
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the pallet in the corner.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna get laid.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then Gowen rides up with this comedic timing
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and is like, what is going on between you two?
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I was gone for five minutes and the vibes have
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: totally changed.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: And of course Suan's like, you know, we're not going in.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: It's just not the two of us. It's us and
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: a hundred soldiers, which certainly ups our chance of surviving.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: This means our chance of surviving long enough to take
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: a GWayne just improved, which is fortunate since after we're
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: about to do she and debtely want the privilege of
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: killing us personally. That is Sanderson dry humor. That just
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: makes me laugh because like it's that feels accurate to
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: spanse character and to the dynamic. She knows she's in
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the wrong. She knows she's in the wrong, and this
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: is why she's moving the goalpost so much. It's because
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: she's already committed to doing something she knows is wrong.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: So the goalposts are absolutely fluid. She's not even internally
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: consistent to herself already. They haven't even taken off yet.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: She's getting Iguana, She's getting a Gollin, She's getting a
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Gwain out. Whether she wants to come out or not.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she knows best because she's the true Romarlin Bad
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Swan Bad's one go to horny jail and then after
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: that go to not listening to Aguain Jail.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Another POV switch. There's going to be an awful lot
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: of these in these two chapters, because we are in
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: battle mode.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: And we now switched to an ade Lorna POV. I
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: think we have two of these, Ever, she's not a common.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Po No, yeah, don't see how many.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that she's in the decision making chapter
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: later as kind of a follow up to this.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Not, as far as I can tell.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: No, is this the only time she has a POV.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: As far as I can tell. Yeah, but she is.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, sometimes it's incomplete.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: We'll find out later. Either way. It's very very rare.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And this, yeah, because we're in battle mode. We need
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: eyes on the ground everywhere, and we don't have the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: plot maneuverability to have a main character on every part
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: of ground. So we're going to bring in adel Lorna,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: and she has existed before and since she's a real character,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: not just sprinkled in for spice.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: No, because we get Saren's POV twice but only Ada Lorna.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Wants Adam Laurna has a lot to say in that POV,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: but she is not the PV itself.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and adel Lorna was. She was punished by
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Elida for not returning on grill.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: That was like planted in her room.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: I think it was just like it was yeah, yea, yeah,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: it was just like, oh, everyone just like hangs on
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: to one or to right, and like they kind of
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: they would never keep them permanently, but they have them
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: for like fifty years, so it kind of becomes their
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Taron Greol or whatever.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was one of the ones singled out for
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: that really intense punishment that was essentially meant to divide
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: the tower and make mistrust between the Aujas.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that was at the Black Aja's direction.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, alvr and very specifically told Aglaida to do that,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: and Alida said that's ridiculous. Why would I do that?
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: And alvr and did Black Auja things at her to
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: make it happen.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Because again, at the time, Red and the Green had
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: a bit of an alliance, and this broke that alliance
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: up right.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, because there was two women who got punished
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: in that, and it was very specifically calculated to fracture
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: those Adjas apart.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Josane was also punished of the Green.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, Josane just died. In this pov at Alona thinks
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: about how she had seen Joseane die as a weave
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: of air had destroyed the wall beside her.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, so she just died. So Jordan clearly looked
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: back at that chapter and went, Okay, I've got these two, Iida,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill one and have the other.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: One like good ty in, good tye in.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good, well, well done, well done. There is a
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: certain amount of checking these isid I off right, as
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: he goes through and like gives them each a scene.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: He's going back, and like I've noticed he touches on
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: most of the isid I who were given significant roles. Yeah,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I think get a list of Isidi he wanted to
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: like give some resolution to in these books.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a bit of a hit and a
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: miss on the whole list, but yeah, sometimes he really
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: does a good job of that, and I think Adelrna
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: is a good one. Yeah, she's she's currently in a
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: situation much like a Gwaine and that she's running down
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the hallways, but she's doing much more poorly than Agwayne
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: because she's just been banding together with people and then
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: getting shattered apart and seeing people die and seeing people
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: get captured, and she doesn't have anyone to fight with,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: and she's, you know, having the inverse experience of Agwayne
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: all the way to the point of getting captured by
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: the Color and then a Glance saves her and she
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: becomes part of a Gwan's team and it's great. But
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: she starts out in a very similar to a Grain situation,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: which makes sense, especially because she's the Captain General of
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: the Green and that's you know, Agwayne would have been
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: green if she had her choice.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Right, right, So this would have been and it makes
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: sense this was the leader in a battle situation you
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: would expect to take command, rise up, unite people, bring
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: them together, and have them fighting back against the Shawn Chin. Right.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: She's the battle Yeah, the battle lagis should be leading
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: the charge against these invaders.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Right, And so I think in a lot of ways,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: having her be completely defeated and having a GWayne rescue
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: her shows you the level is trying to show you
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: just the level of incompetence the defenders of the White
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Tower are at and the way Againe's able to step
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: up and like take charge even over this person.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, because Adilrna even thinks, like you know about
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: how's like she's the captain general. She has to grit
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: her teeth and not run and highe. She has to
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: stand for the tower, right, like what Agwayin is doing,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: but like at a slightly lower level, because you know,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: not Operlin, just battle leader. And then and then she
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: very allegorically runs away from the Shawn Chin so hard
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: she almost runs off the edge of a cliff, like
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: she runs out the side of the building because she's
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: not looking where she's.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Going she almos Wiley coyotes herself.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, which is just so allegorical for everything that's happening.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: The White Tower is falling apart and on fire, and
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: the Isidi, who should be responding effectively are running around
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: and almost falling out of holes in the walls, right Like,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: It's just so visually striking and allegorically correct for the
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: whole situation.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: And I get why it's like they're not going down
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: to the storeroom because it would take probably like an
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: hour to get down there and get the angreol and
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: come back up if you don't have a gateway, right, So,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: maybe it doesn't make a lot of sense to send
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: someone down there, or maybe they did send someone down there,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: but I can see why they don't have a lot
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: of ungreoll to back themselves up with.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like the Green Eye just should have had
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: a break glass in case of emergency, case of battle,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: tried tarangriol specifically that we're exactly meant to help them
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: defend the tower in the last extreme.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: It also feels like there should be wards built into
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: the tower that could be activated as defensive.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where's the laser eyes coming out? Of the rains
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: about gargoyles.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: And the only thing I'm thinking of is like not
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: using the power to as a weapon, right, like that's
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: and not building weapons that makes it very hard to
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: build things that can actually defend the tower.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Igwayne has no problem defending the tower.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Well, she hasn't sworn the Three Oaths, and she even
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: thinks about how the fact that she's violating the shit
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: out of them and that doesn't bother her because it's
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: important to make the sean Chan pay. She is absolutely
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: not following the Three Oaths in this moment.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: You think the three o's would have kept her from
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: blasting so hard during this battle.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: I think she would have had trouble killing abducted sisters.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, specifically that part. She could have attacked the people
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: who were flying at her throwing weaves at her, but
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: she couldn't have attacked the fleeing Oh that's an interesting point. Yeah,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I know. I feel like the tower should be able
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: to just like have a weave comes up that makes
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: the whole like outside just get electrified, so that way
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: anything crawling up the side, like you know, gets paralyzed
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: and falls off.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: In the defense of yourself or a sister or a warder, right, Like,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: that's you can basically defend any of those three and
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: defend the towers, defending an all of them at all times.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: So like, I don't think there's any problem with us
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: attacking the sean Chan. When they're attacking the tower, you
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: are defending yourself, your sisters, and your warders, right and so,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: And that's totally loud in the oaths to attack. But
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I think like once they have taken an I sid
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: eye and are fleeing, then you're killing an incant I
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: sid eye with the power. You're using it as a
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: weapon against someone who's not attacking you, who's not a
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: dark friend. That's that's pretty rough.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Is saving them from a fate worse than death a
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: sufficient loophole for the s right, that's a good point line,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: blinded full. If they could electrify the tower, that would
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: have been used to punishing offices and take out the competition. Look,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: maybe they could have just programmed it to be intelligent
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: enough to only know when people were the enemy. That's
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: a thing that they'd done for sure.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Right, how exactly you the determined friend from foe from enemy?
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Is it a code? Is it a smell.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, that's complicated. Yeah, but a little bit of like,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: you know, the Wall from Game of Thrones could have
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: been cool, little bit of oh yeah, the walls have
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: laser beams that come out of the gargoyle eyes when
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: someone you know hits the red panic button under their desk.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Like you just want some defenses in place, I get you.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, then we get this really lovely triumphant
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: moment where Adelorna is at the absolute need year of
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: what can happen to an is to die, being told
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: she's gonna be a demani forever.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Good demane, you'll be sivy.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the collar nclips and that bitch turns
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: into a torch and it's it's great. And then she
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: turns around and Awainne's just standing on a pile of
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: rubble in her torn, dirty dress, just hair blowing in
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: the wind likerecting novices. Oh yeah, it's so good, it's
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: so good, it's so good.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Adlona turned hesitantly. A woman in white stood atop the
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: rubble a short distance away, a massive halo of power
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: surrounding her, her arm outstretched towards the fleeing soldiers, her
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: eyes intense. The woman stood like vengeance itself, the power
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: of Sidar like a storm around her. The very air
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: seemed a light, and her brown hair blue from the
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: wind of the open gap in the wall beside them.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Agwayne Alvier, It's just so good, it's so visual, it's
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: so powerful.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Sanderson, you magnificent man.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: That's just like her standing there, glowing with power, open
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: hole in the wall, twenty two stories up, hair blowing
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: in the wind, throwing blasts of fire and lightning out
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: the window, right, and her sort of being in the
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: tower and then surrounded by the tower and embodying the tower,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: throwing out the power. She is the defenses we want it, right,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: She is the source of power for those defenses.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all it takes is one woman with a magic
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: wand and the righteous fury of a three thousand year
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: old institution behind her. And like, yeah, the tower gets
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: punched in its heart so hard that it unleashes its
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: full to gwayin on the shan.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Chan mm hmmmmm. And like in the way that she
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: as the ambuln is the white tower, and how she
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: defeats Masana by like being the tower, right, and this
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: sort of is that physical happening physically, right.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I really feel like the fact that
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: she does this battle and succeeds so tremendously and uses
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: so much power in doing it helps her take Masana
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: down because it's like, after you beat back your fear
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: of the Shawn Chin and their raid with Vora saw
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: On Greel, is Masana trying to insult you, really gonna
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: prick your bubble? You know now, You're it's almost easy.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: It's as a boss fight, it's almost a letdown, you know,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: because she just owns so hard here.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: No, and then when Fatlearna takes over and Gwenn's like, no, no, no, no,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: you will call me Amberlyn. I am in charge. I
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: have all of this power behind me. You just got captured.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I had to save your ass. Until this is over,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: call me mother if you want to beat me afterwards, fine,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: but we are in the middle of a battle. You
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: do not change command.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, oh, I'm in command, you we aren't. There
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: is no room to debate that until the attack is over.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: We can go back to the power struggles. But I
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: am in command, and like you can get out of
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: my way or get flattened.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, now, well, just give you back to the
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: shawn Chin right.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, Like what the fuck ever Ada Lorna. And
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: then Ada Lorna is like, oh I am the battle Aja,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: and the Ombrelin has just shown up. I guess I will,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: you know, fall into place at her right hand the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: way that the battle leader should, you know, because that's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: where the green ada head should be is with the
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Ombrelin organizing the defenses. That is absolutely where she should be.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: And then she asks about Ada Lorna's warders and she'd
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: you know reports, Oh yeah, one's dead, one's wounded, ones alive.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: And Agwayne is immediately like, wow, you're really strong and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: amazing for not being in a puddle, and Ada Lorna's like,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: why does that make me feel good? It's like, because
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: you just gave her respect as the Armrelind and the
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Ombrelind thinks you're strong, of course you feel good about it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Also a little foreshadowing that a GWayne doesn't handle losing
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: a order nearly as well.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she can't do that. She thinks she can,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: She even says, Agwayne. The Ombrelin mourns for Agwayne the girl,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter. And then later she says that
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: was a dumb decision. I couldn't do that, And I think, yeah,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: it's because Ada Lorna shows her that if you're you know,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: experienced at having a warder and losing them, it is
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: possible to power through as the head of your AJA.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot. Not any
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: not just every woman can do that.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: So Gwaine says, how familiar are with the towers on
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Reell storerooms? And very outa Lorna says, which again I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: think is a funny reference to the fact that she
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: was punished for keeping her on greal and she's like, oh, yeah, no,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: I know those rooms.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that nice.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Nice nice. That's why I think she was picked for
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: this role, because it's like, oh, yeah, this is someone
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: who definitely knows the storerooms because she's got a grubby
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: little hands in there and stolen a bunch of them,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: I mean stolen whatever.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know exactly which ones people won't notice
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: if I hang on too.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: So Agwayne shows her the gateway because apparently she's found
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: out because in the beginning of the chapter she was like,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: don't show anybody this, but now she's like, well, elight
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: has been showing everybody this, so screw it. Like, the
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: knowledge is out. I'm not hiding it from anybody by
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: not showing them.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that report gets to her offscreen, But yeah,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: I just had a report that Alida has been spreading
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: knowledge of the weaves, so fuck ye. I didn't quite
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: notice that her level of secrecy changes within the chapter.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't quite pick up on that, but yeah, it's
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: out now, and she accurately says, if one woman who
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: knows that gets taken by the shawn Chin, then the
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: shawn Chan have it. So we just might as well
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: spread it as widely as we can, because the shawn
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Chann are about to have it, right.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: And it's not even someone who Alida taught, it's Alida.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: They get Alida the irony.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Of it being Alida herself rather than someone she spread
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: it to, so we.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Know for sure, for sure they have that knowledge.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then yeah, we get this great moment where
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Adelaura was like, wait, you could have left the entire time,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and Agwainn says, no, I couldn't. My duty is to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: stay here. I didn't stay here because I had to.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I stayed here because I had to. Like you, understand,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: and a lot alone was like, Oh, this really is
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: the Homborlin. It's a good moment. It's a good ringing
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: moment to end the chapter on.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, we go right into the next chapter,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: which is just the same scene flashing back to another
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: POV switch, back to Gareth Brynn.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it literally could have just been a POV switch
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: with no chapter break at all. Lepoof. Technically there's a
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: different chapter title in chapter logo A fount of Power
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: the bowl, respectively, but it's the same story. It's just
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: a POV switch.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Well recent a fond of power. Well, ty kerchief on
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: my face and call me i yeel, said one of
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Brent's soldiers, kneeling besides the General at the prow of
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: their narrow boat. It really is there, Nolin squatted at
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: the prow of his own boat, the dark waters rippling
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: and lapping at the sides of the vessel. They needed
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: thirteen boats to carry them, and had set into the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: river quietly and easily, at least they had once su
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: On Sanche had finally finished her inspection of the boats
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: and decided they were riverworthy. Barely. Each vessel carried a
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: single shielded lantern. Gowain could barely make out the other
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: boats sliding over the ebony water, the soldiers rowing them
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: in near silence as they pulled up beside the stonework
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: embankment on tarvall In's southwestern side. The flashes of light
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: in the sky were distracting, and Gowain kept finding himself
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: glancing out to see serpentine beasts illuminated briefly by cold
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: white lightning or blazing crimson fire. The White Tower itself
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: seemed to burn that kind of that guy in the beginning, Well,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: tie a kerchief on my face and call me a
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: heel all right, Yeah, it's.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Such a funny phrase, and yet it feels so right,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: and call me Ael.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the tower's on fire, right, you got fire
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: coming in, fire going out, like you know, there's there's
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: I said, I actually putting out there. But there's a
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: lot of energy being thrown around.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: And there's like rock falling from down down, from up above.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Like this is again one of those scenes where I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: would not normally feel like I was visualizing it very well,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: but under Sanderson's writing, like I can hear it, I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: can smell it, I can see it. It's really chaotic
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: and noisy, and they just it's a small party of
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: one hundred, and they totally managed to just slip through
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: the chaos because there's that much going on.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: And this is one he does a much better blow
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: by blow visualization, I think, and which is one of
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: the reasons why I was very happy when this came
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: out that we actually that he was writing these books,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: because I was like, I was so excited to see
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: the action and see the battles and see all the
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: implications of the power being used, and I always thought
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Sanderson did a really good job with that.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they boat up to the island. There's o
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: gear carved bulwarks that come down into the water to
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: you know, prevent erosion. It's fortunate that the river level
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: is low enough they can get in. Apparently the river
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: level changes enough that on some years this whole passage
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: would be underwater, so lucky for them.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: I assume there's been a drought because it's been dry,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: right the dark ones touch in the hotness and all
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: But then the winter came with all the snow, so
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess because the snow is still frozen.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: But anyway, it's not a very full river at the moment,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: so they're able to get in to this passage that's
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: just hidden in the rocks, in the bulwarks. It's built in.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: It's not like a natural passage.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: It's built it's like a service passage.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: And there's this great discussion between Brinn and Swan where
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: she's like, how could this exist? I thought that I
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: knew that there were six ways on and off the
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: island and that was it. And Brin's like, no, no, no, no.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: For an invading army, the city is impenetrable. But a
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: place like this, tighter than a tick, can still have
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: a dozen holes big enough for fleas to slip through.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: And I just think that's you know, a fun little
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: bit of important information is that, like every defense has holes.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: It's just a matter of what you're trying to get
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: through those holes depends how impenetrable the places. It's worth remembering.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: It's like the frequency affects the hole size at which
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: something can penetrate, So if you want to block higher
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: frequency things, you make smaller holes. Anyway. Yeah, scale scale's crazy, man.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: I think so much of our universe is based around
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: the scale of things, isn't it funny?
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: How we're right in the middle of the scale in
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: both directions.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: It's depending on how you define your scale. Sure.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I read a really trippy book several years ago
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: called The View from the Center of the Universe, and
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: that was kind of the whole thing, was going through
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: every different way of looking at that question, being like,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: we're at the middle of the scale every direction you look.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: What the fuck does that say about the world? Is
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: that just because we're perfectly positioned in the middle, or
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: is it like in the universe and it's just everything
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: looks equally far away because there actually isn't an edge.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: It was a very trippy way of looking at things.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, obviously the observable universe, we're always going
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: to be in the center of that because like.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: It has a speed, right, yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: We're in the we are in the center of our
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: own universes because.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, it's does that ever have a real world corollary?
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Or is it always a figment of our own like
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: you know, way of looking at the world and those biases,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's an interesting question to ask. To
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: take take it science branch of science by branch of
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: science and really ask it because uh, you end up
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: kind of mind fucked by the end. It's pretty trippy.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: I got a little too deep into the philosophy there
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: where were we?
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Uh we're currently tying up beggars who hang out in
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: the tunnel as the party disembarks because they might, you know,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: sell the information in the middle of a war. I don't.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: It seems like now is not the time.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: It does seem a little like a detail that didn't
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: need to be included.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: But whatever. I also feel like Tarvalin is not the
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: kind of city that should have beggars in it.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: The point is, the light is really fucked up Tarvalin,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: so it didn't used to but now it does. They
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: deliver this trash and there's beggars and people not being
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: taken out.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: It's been like three months. What in the no social
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: safety net is happening?
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Bad shit, bad shit, And don't forget that, like all
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: around the countryside, food's failing, people are flocking through the
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: cities for help. People are gathering to be recruited into
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: armies for the last battle. So you have a lot
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: of people on the streets.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the whole siege of Tarvalin has also
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: changed the dynamic in a more immediate way. But yeah,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: that's what's happening. And then they pull out some tower
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: Guard uniforms so that they can disguise themselves as the enemy,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure is like not allowed by the
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: correct rules of war. Pretty sure do that, but they
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: do it because it's helpful.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: But they're being spies, not soldiers.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's true. They're not on a killing mission,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: so that's different. Yeah, they have some rapidly made uniform
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: so that they can disguise themselves as just another unit
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: of the tower Guard, which allows them to not bother
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: having to sneak through the city, which spares us a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: lot of tedious pages of sneaking.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I like the description of the rockin swooping and spinning
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: about the tower like goals circling a dead whale in
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: the ocean. That is pretty good.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: I also underlined that like that is ooh like, because
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: we live in Oregon, we have the exploding whale story
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: as proud state history. Exploding whale day was not that
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: long ago actually.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: And as truly as a white whale.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: It truly is a white whale, yes, a wide whale. Yeah,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: So they get to the tower, and they immediately say, well,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: we need to go down into the tower. We need
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: to go the opposite direction from where Aguayin is because
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: we don't have good information, so we're going to be
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: silly about it.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Right, Their information is outdated because the last they heard
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: she was in the dungeon, and.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: They don't get all the way down to the dungeon
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: before they learn otherwise. But that's where they start going.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: And they noticed that there's two points of battle. There's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: one you know, around the twenty second floor, which we
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: know is Agwayin, So they see her, right, they just
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: don't know it's her, and then they see the other
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: bit of resistance at the.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Base the way they all underrestmeate her. See if I
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: was Gareth Brynn and I saw a woman at the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: top of the tower absolutely kicking ass and taking names,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: I would be like, well, that's a gwayn obviously right
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: right right, Like the Ombrelind is clearly doing what the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: Omerlind does because the tower is under assault, like obviously,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know why. Everyone just is like I
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: don't know who there could be, Like who the fuck
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: else do you think it would be?
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Because they underestimate her. Even her allies underestimator.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Stop underestimating her. She's about to freaking die in like
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: five minutes. Like God, don't underestimate her. For the precious
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: book and a half, we get her left.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: For and another POV switch. So this is the battle
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: at the base of the tower, right, because that sort
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: of the transition is they noticed the two battles. We've
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: seen the one with a GWayne and now we're transitioning
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: to the one at the base of the tower. We're
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: kind of seeing how that's going and how it formed.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: So explain to me why there's a battle happening at
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: the base of the tower.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: It's just where the resistance got together.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, But why are soldiers attacking the base of the
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: tower because.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: I assume that's where there's a bunch of doors.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, I just it's like it's an air raid. So like,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: why are they attacking on the ground?
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: I assume that there was a certain amount of soldiers
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: that were dropped off on the ground in like the courtyard, right,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: because it was an easy place for the rock and
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: to drop them off. And so then they're trying to
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: get in at the base of the tower. So there's
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Basically they're trying to get in from
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: the outside of the tower. They just bypass the rest
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: of the city.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: Oh and also to distract the ice to dive from
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: the air raid and help the blood Knives infiltrate. Yeah. Okay,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: so there's a lot of reasons to get your your
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: air raid troops on the ground.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: You attacked from the top to the bottom, right like
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: you you know, like, and they blew a couple holes
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: in the side, try and get in that way, but
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: you either have to make a hole or you go
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: in through the existing holes, which are the doors at
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: the base.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, no, that makes sense, That makes sense. And
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: then yeah, the forces are divided, trying to decide which
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: side of the battle they're gonna go deal with. So yeah,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: we go to the bottom battle and it turns.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Out A Gwayne's being so effective that she actually pulls
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: most of the battle up there because they're like, god, damn,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: we got to stop this one person who's just massacring us.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if everyone else is less of a pain. And
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: they asked of this one woman. Yeah, and we are
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: with Sayer and now she is the one organizing on
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: the ground.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: Floor and she's a Brown who's somehow taking charge because
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: she's a sitter, so she's guessed just happens to be
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: the highest ranking slash most powerful person there.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's one of the more present and aggressive Browns.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: She's also the one who took over the hunt for
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: the Black Aja. Right, right, she's really really okay with
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: taking power in a way that is uncharacteristic of a Brown.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: And there aren't really any greens.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Greens are not showing.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Up because they were with the leader, the head of
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: the Aja, what's her title, al.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: Lona, the battle leader.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were with that Lorna and they all got captured. Right.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: She was the only one who made it out, So
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: like all of the Greens were like together as a force,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: and she's got their ass kicked.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: Right are they're scattered? Yeah, like there's it's it's bad.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: So there's one Green here, Maradannie, who again single serving
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: I sid ie.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and she has only just arrived and she's
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: very eager to get back out into the fight again,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: but Sayer and holds her long enough to get some
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: information on the map, because you know, she is a
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Brown and she knows that like the first way, the
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: first rule of war is to get information about things. Right.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: Information is so so so critical to any sort of
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: battle situation. So she's like, put information on the map,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: show me where the other eyes thatd ie are, so
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: that I can start to make a plan.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: And so at the most, I think we've estimated as
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: like two hundred and fifty I said eye in the
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: tower at this point.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: Something like that. Yeah, yeah, because it was three hundred
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: at the beginning, right, and now we've lost so many.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: People, so right, she sent them way to attack the
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Black Tower. She sent them away to be with Rand.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: She's some have died, you know, Somewhere around two fifty
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: I think, is how many sisters we have left in
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: the tower. So this ground floor has around forty seven,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: so it's like a fifth of the sisters. So you've
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: got probably a small but and you don't really have
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: that many sisters up with aguayin either, so we have
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: to assume the vast majority are just scattered.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, hiding fighting in little pockets here and there. Yeah,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: there's not organized centers of them because they've been fractured
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: into eighty bitty tiny pieces by their leaders. Captain Chewbain
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: shows up being like, 'tis mus a scratch with his
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: injuries that she insists he gets healed. And then he's like, seriously,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: like under all the bravado, the tower guard are freaking useless,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: Like we need we need something more effective than us
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: to fix this.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: And she's like tribo and arrow, Like.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah's like, maybe don't hit the magic women with swords.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe use ranged weapons.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: If they're going to tear you apart at a distance,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: hit them from a distance before they can tear you apart.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: Seems pretty obvious. But you know, I mean, that's just
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: it's obvious. They really haven't thought it out, right.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone's running around with their heads cut off because again,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: this is not a thing anyone would expect it. This
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: is supposed to be the central safe place. This is
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: the last place that would be attacked, right, no one
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: was prepared to defend here.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: And meanwhile, in the back of her head is everyone
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: is everyone In the back of everyone's head, they're thinking
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: man Agwaine basically said this was gonna happen. We all
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: heard the rumors that she's she because it was a rumor, right,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: It was one of those things that people were like,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: oh my god. Agwayine has this feeling she's ridiculous. She
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: just wants attention, but.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Like she was warning about, but there's also this whole
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: paragraph she thinks. What she didn't mention was how embarrassed
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: she was. The Isidi had spent centuries guiding kings and
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: influencing wars, but now with their sanctuary assaulted, they had
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: proven woefully inadequate in defending it. Agwen was right, she thought,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: not just in predicting this attack, but in berating us
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: for being divided. Sarah didn't need reports from Moradria to
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: scouts to note that the Ajas were each fighting this
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: battle independently. Like it's just, yeah, this this was eminently
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: predictable even without Agwain's dreams.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: A lot of this was predictable, right, which explains like
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: most of the Ice and I are in their Adja
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: fighting in probably little Odja pockets, the Greens fighting with
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: the Greens, the El's with the Yellows, the Reds with
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: the Reds. Right, there's not a lot of crossover. And
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: because again two hundred and fifty divide that by seven oddjaws, right,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're very quickly getting to the point where
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: you've got less than twenty ice and eye per aja.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you've got individual personality clashes like yeah,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: it's it's absolutely terrible. And even in this time of strife,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: she's sending runners to ajas to the different ADJA groups,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: being like, we're going to send some browns and yellows,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: like we're going to talk to the browns and yellows.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: We're going to send the browns and yellows too, Like
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: she still has to operate with the ADJA loyalties in mind,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: even in this moment of extreme crisis.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's also important to have like the skills, right,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: you need a yellow to go to each group so
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: they can heal, because the yellows are the ones who
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: are good at healing.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: And then some reds walk in being just caricaturishally bad
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: at helping make the situation better.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Well being led by a black, don't forget.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it is very obvious they walk in there
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: like we must scour them from the tower, and sarens
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: like we can barely keep them from killing us. Can
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: we be realistic in our goals right now? And yeah,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Katerine is absolutely pushing the hardest to be the worst
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: which like, yeah, that makes sense. There she goes being
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: a black.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: Red so yeah, I mean Hoaine tries to pull rank,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: but Sarah says, nope, I'm a sitter in the hall
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: mistress's and nofics doesn't get to tell me what to do.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: I'm the leader here, shut up.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And she even points out the battle has stretched
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: long for a raid, perhaps because we've done such a
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: poor job of resisting, like, yeah, they thought they were
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: going to get in and get out, and it turns
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: out that you are just sitting ducks fish in a barrel,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: except for on the twenty second floor.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: And during this time, the booms start coming not shaking, right,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: we get the first booms that don't shake the tower
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: all the ones before have.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that makes them go, wait a second, how
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: it sounds like the tower is fighting back. That doesn't
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: make sense. We're all here fighting and squabbling and being ridiculous, right.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: The effective and we're not effective? How is this happening? Question?
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: They said the battle is stretched long for a raid? Why?
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: And they're giving like maybe because we're doing such a
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: poor job, Like what do you think is going on there?
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: I think she's completely right. I think that they went
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: in planning for a hard battle, and the battle is
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: proving much easier than they thought, and so they're just like,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: I guess we keep going. Either that or the Shawan
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: chamerre willing to waste way more lives on getting the
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: number of people they were getting and it was going
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: to be a long raid because it did take them
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: so long to get there. But I just have always
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: figured Salmon was right, because they are embarrassing. It's embarrassing
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: they're showing like, yeah, I think the Shawn Channer just
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: shocked at how bad you are at defending yourselves. I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: can't look like them, but light minded fool, said Shawn
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: chan Divided conquer Oh step one's already accomplished.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: Themselves. Yeah, no, you know, divided house falls, right, that's
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: kind of what's been predicted.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: It's almost like you need teamwork to make the dream work.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: Insert well known idiom here.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: So then we get the report that the Sean Channer
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: basically heading up to the twenty second tower to attack
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: them and aren't really bothering with the ground floor anymore.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: And she's like, what, how's the Novice's quarters?
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: And then no, oh, go ahead at the novice quarters.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: That used to be the breath that Agwain. Sarin respects Agwaine.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: As soon as she is told that the twenty second floor,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: the upper tower is where the fight is, she immediately
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: leaps to Aquain. Sarin respects Agwain.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent, and there is that. There is a
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: group of ice that I who respect her, and a
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: lot of them are eating Crow right now and going, oh, man, yeah,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: I really should have listened to Agwaine, which I think
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: really contributes to the vote later of making her Amelin,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: because it's like, oh, yeah, I should have been listening
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: to her, So maybe I should listen to her more
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: that she's Amberlin and just vote her in as Amrelin.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: It's really hard for the women who were starting to
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: respect her to look at that void of power and
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: look at her defense and not just fall in line
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: in perfect lockstep, Like how do you not say she
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: is the Ombrelin. She defended us, she believed in us,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: and defended us obviously.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: And could have left at any time, and yeah all
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: those sorts of things.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so much. Crow is being eaten so much
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: so POV switched back to Aguaine in her just most
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: glorious battle sequence just absolutely raging.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: And I love the lead in for it. It's like,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: who could possibly be doing this? Agwayne flash to a Gwaine,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: right like, that's that's a good transition right there. I
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: thought that was really well done. And then yeah, it's
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: just each faceless Sean Chan that Agwayne struck down seemed
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: to be Rina in her mind's eye, and she's just
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: one after the other, just slinging death with the power
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: of this incredible song real and the backing of all
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: the novices and their untrained power. It's just a it's
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: a really cool moment. And then and using them with
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: their own weeds against them, right like, why is she
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: so good at fighting? Not because of her training in
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: the tower, not because of her training with the Wise Ones,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: but because of her training with the Shawn Chant. They
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: specifically taught her how to turn weaves deadly.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to read the fount of power
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: paragraph because it, ugh, it's so good. But she was
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: a fount of power drawn from deep within the fluted
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: rod in her hands, channeled through a group of novices
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: and accepted hiding in the room behind bound to her
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: in a circle. A guin was part of the fires
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: that burned in the tower, bloodying the sky with their flames,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: painting the air with their smoke. She almost seemed not
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: a being of flesh, but one of pure power, sending
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: judgment to those who dared bring war to the tower itself.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Blasts of lightning stormed from the sky, the clouds churning above,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: Fire sprouted from her hands. Just ah, she's so glorious.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: She's so glorious.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Truly, seeing someone use an angrias sangreal is cool, right,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: that's also a moment of power, Like someone besides Rand
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: using a song greal and really showing off the power
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: that they can gain from it.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rand is usually like half mad or you know,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: cleansing the source. Like this is a more normal use
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: of incredible martial power to just just be a one
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: woman army fighting off hundreds of people. She feels thirty
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: of the rockin Like, that's so many. She kills so
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: many people with.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: This, Yeah, her murder score goes up for sure, Like she.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: Just like if you think about the number of people
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: she kills, her kill count like quintuples at least in
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: this one night.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: And then she makes it pretty big again when she
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: turns into that crystal.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, then there's that yeah, yeah, well yeah, a
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: bunch of high school students fighting dragons lifelighted fool does
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: kind of.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: Feel like that. Yeah, there is that, like, yeah, that
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: sort of young adult miss.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: Of it of like, oh yeah.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: Me and my at my school will gather all my
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: classmates and I've learned so much more than them, so
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: they respect me, and they'll give all their power to me,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: and I'll use the combined power of the entire school
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: against the bad guys. Like there's a little bit of
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: that like young adult wish fulfillment to this.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is that era of books, like young
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: adult wish fulfillment is kind of like what we were
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: reading more than just this book that was giving us
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: a teenager who could kill dragons because.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: She was just pissed, you know, right, totally totally.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: Or ride dragons or become a dragon or whatever the
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: given dragon franchise was. Yeah, and she's she's just she's
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: gonna make the Shawn chain withdraw and she thinks about
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: how with this much power she could not be stopped
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: saved by a full circle, and the shon Chin didn't
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: use circles. The Adon prevented it. It's just that like, yeah,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: you literally can't fight me because you take away people's
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: free will. It doesn't work.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: And she realizes that some have escaped, right, she can't
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: stop them all, so she just has to make them
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: pay right anything that's left. Just just make it a
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: really painful lose more demany than they gain. Essentially it's
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: her goal.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she had to make certain they never attacked the
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: tower again. The raid had to cost them, And that's
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: a bitter if you are a spoilers person, because we
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: know that the shan Chin consider this a success despite
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: as much damage as she does, despite how well she
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: despite everything, They're like they do the numbers and they're like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: that was worth it. Should we should do that again sometime?
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: Because they didn't. They don't value the lives of the
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: people that were lost.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: And they got a lot of Marath Demani in exchange
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: for soldiers that they were willing to sacrifice. They got
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: nukes in exchange for foot soldiers. Like, yeah, that's how
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: the Imperium does this. It's just like, I love Agwayne,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: she does such a great job, and the shan shann
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: are like that worked out well for us. Like no, no,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: all right, pov switch back to Brinn.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: In the courtyard with just all the mango bodies that
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: have fallen from above.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: The hazard of falling bodies is a very real part
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: of this battlefield.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: It's like shit up because yeah, there's basically flaming rock
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: and kind of like flaming planes come crashing down on
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: like a battlefield. Right. You see the World War film
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: where it's like, yeah.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the little fighter jets crashing down.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where Indiana Jones is jumping out of the way
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: on the part of the plane and very much.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: So, very much so. Yeah, a GWayne is not only
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: threatening the captives and the enemy, she's also threatening her
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: allies when she fills them too close to the grounds.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: So this little pov kind of tells the story of
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: Gareth Brynn's sword, right, Like I kind of followed his
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: sword throughout the whole activity he because it starts with
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: him like popping it as he rolls to avoid an attack.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Which like no swordsman should do that. I feel like
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: that's emphasized repeatedly that that's not a thing swordsman do
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: You always hold onto the sword? But whatever, who am I?
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: And then Gowin gets it and hands it back to
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: a home. It's this whole like kind of it's his
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: internal thoughts. While he gets his sword back from Golwin.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Right, he also admires how badass Gwain is with the sword.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: It's very much like Arum. It's just that, like, you
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: can't go into that situation, you'll die. Oh you just
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: killed them with a plum. Okay, then Gowain and Aram
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: should have gotten together.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, please, I mean maybe then one would have
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: killed the other and we could have spared ourselves with
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: the stupidity of both of them.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Light blinded full. Gareth sleeps with that sword every night,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: and he's submitten. So Brynn looks up there sees a
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: woman in white kicking ass doesn't immediately assume as a
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: GWayne like an asshole. He also notices that there's activity
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: on the flat circular roof, which which we know is
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: more or less this is the moment when Alida is
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: being taken give her take.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: One would assume, yeah, yeah, he's.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Seeing the process that Alida is part of. I choose
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: to believe that he looks up right around when she's
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: literally getting picked up and taken off.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a bunch of parallel stuff going
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: on at the same time, right, I feel like this
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: isn't necessarily quitchal Right, they're jumping between different places where
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: at the same time.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, which is why you know, when we join
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: Alida later, it's after this moment. So I assume that
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: at this moment he's witnessing the bag that her getting
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: taken off. But that's entirely my head can because I
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: like that sort of plot. But yeah, it's very much
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: like playing like Dungeons and Dragons combat, Like, yes, it's
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: a six second round, but it's going to take us
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: an hour to cover everything that is happening in said
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: six second round.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: So the fights between thirty sean Chan soldiers who are
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: coming out and Gareth Brand's hundred men and also some
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: rockin are like interfering, right, dropping boulders, doing stuff like that.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of not great.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: It's a mess. Yeah, they're not quite ideal levels of deadly,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: but they are very effective soldiers. So Brinn's soldiers, he
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: loses a few and some are going to get left behind,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: some of them are going to die, like they do,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: take some casualties, but they win the fight easily because yeah,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: it's nearly it's over two to one odds, like, it's
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: just you don't win. And then in the meantime, Swan
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: slips off and goes to get a novice who clues
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: them into the fact that searching the dungeons will not work.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: In complete violation of Men's prophecy, right, just totally abandoning
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: Gareth Brann in the middle of a battle, despite the
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: prophecy saying if they separate, they'll both die. I guess
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: she makes it back in time. It's I don't know,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: it's such a weird prophecy.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like Sanderson did not quite understand what
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: Jordan was going for with that, And I suspect Jordan
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: didn't quite know what he was going for with that
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: because he clearly didn't leave good notes on it, and
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: none of us have figured out a satisfying explanation. It's
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: just prophecy be like that sometimes we.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: And it's just like, though, oh, if you ever separate
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: at any point in your future, you could die. It's
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: such a weird like not the way the prophecy was
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: worded at all, and not the way I thought of it,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: and not the way men made it seem right. It
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: was like, it made it seem like there'd be one
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: point in your future where you will save each other
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: and then you're good, and that's what we kind of
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: all assumed. And I feel like Sanderson pulled to gotcha, No,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: that's not what it meant, And it was like, Oh,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: that's dumb.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: I always thought that, Like she said something like you
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: have to be there for him twice.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: Oh of course, No, I don't think so.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: No, I'm thinking of her. I don't know what the
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: fuck I'm thinking of I it Initially it was a
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: great inciting incident for at Taming of the Shrew style
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: romance to say you have to stay with him because
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: otherwise you'll both die, Like it was a great reason
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: to force them to be together.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: Kind of like cod Swain's she'll teach you something, so
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: you have to you.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: Know, right, But as with all things, wu you shouldn't
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: live your life precisely by the prediction. You should just
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: live your life with the general knowledge that that's true.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't be making minute to minute decisions based on
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: that information.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: And so that's why I hate that that min is like,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: oh my god, you've a he's abandoned you, and then
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: they die and I'm like, it was just that they
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: separated for a few minutes like they do a million
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: other times, just because min was there and happened to
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: see it. That's when they die, right Like, I don't know,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't like it. I don't like their deaths. I
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: don't like the way that that's handled in the last book.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: It feels uh.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's something to be said for like you
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: can misread when a prophecy is fulfilled. There's something to
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: be said for that as an example, But having Swan
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: die the way she does, it's very upsetting and frustrating
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: and unnecessary and bad. There there were better ways to
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: prove the issues with taking prophecies too literally and believing
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: that they'd been fulfilled when they weren't, Like there were
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: other ways to do that.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: How did she die? Again? I forget exactly what the
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: circumstances were.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: She gets bombed in the tent at some point. It's
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: the really weirdly off screen. It gets technically on screen,
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: but it feels like just to buy the bye, and
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: for someone as important as Swan, it feels downright insulting.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: It's not the Sharran attack, but I think it's still
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: in the camp or something after the Sharran attack. I
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: forget exactly. But it's really dumb and bad and not
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: what she deserved.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she like dies in a random explosion while trying
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: to save Matt.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's dumb and bad and unnecessary and unsatisfying, and
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: I will be very angry about it every time it
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: gets brought up, especially when we.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: Get there Demandrand bombs Matt's command post. That's right, Okay,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, she gets taken out kind of in the
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: same way that Grendall's two friends.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: Do Helena and Agnar and Aaron.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: Gar Well arghar and oh and Dolana Dolana yep yep,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: pip yep, yipp those two get taken out kind of
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: just oh yeah, they were trying to bomb somebody else
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: and they were just in the wrong place at the
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: wrong time.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, which Swan didn't deserve that for her.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: Swan deserves to fucking live and Mary Morain and live
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: in a fucking hut on the side of the.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: River, both in the show and in the books.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's how it's supposed to go, Like the
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: department and then they each get a man is no.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: So right now, I think I've got a coming back
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: with information that Agwaine is back in the Novice tower
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: and has been dosed with a bunch of fourk group.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: Right, she's not in the dungeon, but she is upstairs
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: and definitely drugged. And not the woman who is kicking
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: ass and taking names and all lot of bubble gum
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: and all that jazz.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: No way it could be her. So they're trying to
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: you know, they're like, oh my god, what are we
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: going to do with this novice? She's going to betray us?
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: And she's like, oh no, I support the Ambulin like
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: all the novices do.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: Agwayne, Yeah, which you know, makes that a simple choice
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: for them, which is good.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: We get the death count. Twelve men died in the battle,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: fifteen are wounded, and then another it was fifteen wounded
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: but can walk, and then another six are wounded too
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: badly to walk. Three are not three of the I
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: guess three of those six are dying, is what my
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: assumption was.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's my assumption as well. Three of
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: them are going to make it, three of them aren't
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: going to make it. And Swan says Mmmm, that doesn't
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: make me happy on your behalf. So I'm going to
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: go heal three men real quick. And I find a
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: little unbelievable that Swan and her reduced power is able
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: to heal three men in rapid succession to the point
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: that they won't die. That feels a little out of scale,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: but for plot reasons it's fine.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't really know what kind of healing she
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: can or can't do.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe just sealing someone up so that they're
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: not literally dying is easier than fixing them so that
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: they can walk or function at all. And as she
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: goes to heal them, brins thinking we're running out of time.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: If the Shawn Channer retreating like the window to rescue
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Agwayne before the tower reasserts its own control of itself
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: is running out, Yes, I'm gonna say I feel like
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: Swan's healing talent was expressed as being mediocre because she's
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: a Blue and Blues are mediocre at healing.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I think she does know how to use the healing
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: weaves to kill directly. She knows how to use side
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: artists off the heart. She does seem to have a
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: small healing talent.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: Swan does when the hell did want to talk about
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: being able to stop?
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: Hearts a Memory of Light chapter thirty seven.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: Oh well, that expends why I forget because the last
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: three books and I don't know anything that happened to
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: the last three books.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: Let me see if I can get there in a way.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: That's sorry. I'm doing a lot of reading, so I
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: trying to get there quickly. I'm like, oh, I wonder
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: what chapter that in? That is? That's the last battle,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: so I'm like, oh, I wonder if I can search
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: through that chapter really quick.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: Real quick through a book, then a chapter the length
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: of a book.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: Here we go. She's she's too on to abandon her
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: costume for trousers and shirt and run to Matt. Min
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: steps through the hole and runs around the building and
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: countermaile Iyod, who catches a knife she throws at him
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: before being killed by sue On, stopping his heart. She
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: sells sue On that sue On was supposed to stay
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: near Gareth, so this is right before she dies and
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: is separated from Gareth. In that moment, she stops an
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: AOD's heart with the One Power, and.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: Then she stops Brind's heart with her stupid senseless death.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: So she in that moment is able to stop somebody's heart,
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: so she apparently knows how to do that and healing
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: well enough.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: So okay, right, all that to say she should be
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: semi competent healing.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's all Sanderson's stuff. There's no evidence of
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: it beforehand. And also with a reduced power, she should
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: be really bad at it.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: So but also, like, you know, if these guys are
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: like rapidly bleeding out from their artery, she should be
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: able to like stock up the life blood from pumping
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: out in the next three minutes, right right.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Right, heal up a couple arteries And that's basically as.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: It's only a couple of artery walls should be within
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: range for her and like make the difference on helping
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: those soldiers not.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: Die within the next hour, right exactly.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: Because the idea is that they're leaving their wounded in
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: enemy hands, trusting to the rules of war to have
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: them be you know, taking care of and imprisoned like
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: with humane care.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and healing is a ton to be more like
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: a talent based on like your change in power level
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't affect your ability to heal as much.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: But she's still so much weaker. I don't know, I
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: just wanted to nitpick because this recording isn't long enough yet.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: We're not that far over two hours.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: All right. So Brinn's looking at the tower being like, wow,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: this is We're never going to forget this. You know,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: this is a profound impact on the tower to have
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: all of these holes and fires ripped into it. And
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: you know, this is this moment of like pride and
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: grief and all this stuff. And then a blood knife
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: comes leaping out and Brynn gets to experience how cool
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: it is to be a warder with a level up
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: and be able to you know, protect his iside in
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: this wonderful moment. And then the blood knife is very
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: blood knife and almost manages to poison him with like
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: his last little puts a pin in his wrist that
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: like is going to poison him. Like I admired the
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: blood knives for being like, oh, I died so much
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: faster than I thought I would. But I'm still taking
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: someone out with me, even as they're stabbed by a
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: man they didn't see, you know, you know, like the
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: quick thinking there is impressive, and.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: I have to wonder if maybe The reason we don't
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: see the Blood Knives tear through the Isidi right away
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: is because the first one who tried to do anything
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: got killed immediately mm hmm. And so they're like, oh man,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: we lost one of our number right away, and this guy,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: like this warder did it, and so maybe we need
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: to be way more careful about who we attack. So
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: we're only going to attack isolated isidie And that explains
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: the weird pattern that we are seeing in the Blood
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: Knives attacks later on with a gwayin and why we're like,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: why aren't they killing a bunch more? It feels like
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: if they have a limited amount of time, they'd just
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: be like murdering anyone they could get their hands on.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: And maybe this like one guy who tries to attack,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, the other ones are probably around there somewhere
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: are witnessing this, right They're probably not that far away,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: and this dude just executed the guy. So maybe they're like,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: oh fuck, maybe we need to, you know, be much
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: more careful.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a really interesting point that I the
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: other Blood Knives were like, this is going to be easy,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: pas lemons, squat one of us is dead, okay, uh
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: okay with threat recalibration.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, Yeah, but this is the moment where, yeah,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: so the assassin reaches out and has like a little
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: poisoned dart that he presses in the Gareth Bryn's arm.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: Gareth Brinn doesn't notice. A Swan is like, thank you
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: for saving my life. Wait a minute. The prophecy wasn't
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: that I say, you just saved my life. It's that
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: we save each other. And she realizes, oh, you're probably
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: something's wrong with you, delves him, realize he's poisoned, and.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: Heals him and it's a super fast acting poison, like
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: this is poison that was going to drop him in
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: like ninety seconds. Like she had no time to make
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: that leap, and she did it. So to her credit,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: she is very very smart.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: So that's one of those weird conditional Men prophecies that like,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: if she hadn't heard the prophecy, she wouldn't have thought
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: to save Gareth Brynn's life. And so the prophecy saved
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: his life in that moment.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: Except this wasn't the moment because Men says later, I
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: still see the prophecy around you. It hasn't been fulfilled.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: This just this was a trick of your This is
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: a placebo prophecy is what this was. This is a
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: placebo moment where they're saving each other because they believe
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: in a prophecy, not because it's necessary.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: See, I had a different interpretation. My interpretation is that
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: it's not just one moment. There are multiple moments where
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: they have to be near each other or else they
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: will die. And like this is one of them. And
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: then they think and then there's like a more coming, right,
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, we're good, and it's like, no,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: there's a bunch more coming. What are you doing?
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I think it's because Swan's are a really
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: powerful person and the pattern was going to take her out,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: so you know, like you're gonna have to have a
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: lot of people working to keep you alive otherwise.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: And then we're back to Agwain's POV as she lies
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: exhausted on the floor, basically too exhausted to move or
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: speak or you know, she's hanging on to consciousness, barely
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: aware of what's going on around her because of the channeling.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's lucky she didn't burn herself out with
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: how over extended she is.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of the way that Rand
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: and I Need were after the cleansing. Right, It's not
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: so much that they couldn't handle the amount of power,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: but channeling that much power takes physical effort. And she's
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: an hour is standing up there channeling battle power, and
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: now she's just physically exhausted, like running a marathon exactly.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: The sheer physical strain of doing that is its own burden.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: And she told all of the women that she was
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: channeling through or channeling from all the women she was
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: linked with. She's like, you all go straight to bed.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: Everyone who was in circles doing the battle, you need
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: to stay up and help with battle mop up and
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: dealing with the wounded and all that. But the people
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: who were just battery conduits, you all need to go
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: straight to bed.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: But she stays there because she wants to help what clean,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: care for the wounded, or work on the fires. She's like,
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: I can still help, I can still help, and it's like, no,
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: you can't. Passes out.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: I think she's out there because she literally ran out
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: of juice in the middle of the hallway, nowhere near
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: a bed. I think that's what that is. She's like
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go until I literally stop. And she
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: just stopped in the middle of a hallway, just like
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: she wound down. Her batteries are completely discharged. Spring has
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: completely relaxed, like she's just she's done. She has no
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: capacity to think about going to bed. She's used the
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: energy she would have used to go to bed to
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: continue on thinking. She's got the energy to do stuff.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: Right right, and she's she's protected pretty much everybody who
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: was with her, but still kind of failed the Tower
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: right as her thoughts, like enough of them got away,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: there was enough of a raid, Like the raid was successful.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: She made them pay for it, but not as much
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: as she wanted to, and she only was able to
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: really protect the people around her.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she has the correct read here that
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: the White Tower did not come out ahead in the
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: battle in terms of the numbers of people they lost
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: versus the number of casualties they inflicted. Yeah, she did
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: not exact the cost she wanted to exact, but I
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: mean they did win with the whole losing of Alida thing,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it does put the Tower ahead.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: And because she brings in this massive influx of novices,
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: and let's be realistic a huge number of Isidai who
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: were outside of the tower. Yes, it's a huge loss
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: for the isidai who were in the tower, but overall,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: it's not that big of a loss of numbers. Forty
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: or fifty I sid eye. I mean they lost more
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: to the Black Tower when the Light has sent them off.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: For the raid, right, I mean she lost a lot
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: of novices and accepted though. Right, she didn't just lose
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: eyes to die in this raid like to the shan Chan.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: The shan Chan got a lot of channelers who were
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: not ice to die.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: I thought she was able to keep most of the
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: novices safe. I mean the only three novices and one
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: isid I.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: Dead from her group. But she didn't get to everyone
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: in the tower.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: I thought that like all. Yeah, I thought she had
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: all of the novices together because she went to the
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: Novice quarters. They were all in the Novice quarters. They
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: formed all the various five different circles.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: Is that all of them?
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: I think? So there aren't that many. Remember, there's not
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: that many novices in the tower. They're not accepting all
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: the new novices and everything.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that forty or fifty isidie is all
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: the channelers that the shan Chen got, and they're patting
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: themselves on the back about it.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's yeah, that's accepted. Yeah, okay, for sure.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always the thing is. It's like Agwayne isn't accepted,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: but she's why is she with the novices if she'sn't accepted?
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: No, Ala made her a novice again.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: I thought she got elevated back to being unaccepted again.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: I don't remember.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that she they were allowed to put
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: her back into accepted. I thought so that she could have.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm confused, but the shaan chenk got
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: more than forty fresh channelers to pat themselves on the
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: back about.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: Right. Let me see if I can find no.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: Light minded fools saying she was never an accepted again.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe that was just teased, but yeah, clearly she's in
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: the novice's quarters. Oh yeah, no, I mean I suc
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: alone saying novice. So okay, I was wrong about the
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: whole accepted thing that, like, I don't know.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm trying to read the chapter
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: with Fortuna to find out if we know how many
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: they got towers have been Night chapter forty seven. Let
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: me pull that up really quick or whatever. I don't
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: know if we ever get the numbers of how many
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: marath Demani they captured, right if if she ever says
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: exactly how many, I hope.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: She does, because that would be I'm curious what they
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: consider to be worth it, given how heavy of losses
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: they suffered, Like they lose Demani to the tower, they
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: lose Suldom to death, like they lose a lot of channelers.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: But I don't think they got them, man, I like,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think they got a number.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: But they consider it a success, Like if they consider
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: the rate of success then like.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: Eh, sorry, this is a long silence, lots of research.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: Voujie suggesting it's just a pyrrhic when they're saying it's success,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: saying it's a success to avoid making an apology. Maybe,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess they could say we were,
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: you know, a dozen channelers ahead, so it counts. I
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: don't know. I'm much always surprised at how small of
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: numbers we're talking when it comes to is to dye stuff.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: That's kind of why I reiterate it because I know
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: it's yes, it's not intuitive. You're like these are just
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: not that many people like they think they're the shit,
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: but they're just tiny. Yeah. I mean she sort of
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: talks about how like, now that they have gateways, what
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: they did before was a pinprick. Now they're really going
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: to attack. But I don't see her talking about how
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: many they captured, because we see her with you know,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: Elida and Alida's trying to bargain. They demonstrate gateways. I mean,
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: nothing else that makes the rate of success right is
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: the fact that they got gateways from the raid r
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: It doesn't really matter how many they lost or how
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: many they gained. That alone is a strategic advantage.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: That is huge. That is huge. Yeah, and then Saren
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: thinks later in this chapter that Igwain had a group
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: of over sixty novices, and that does sound like about
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: all the novices that the tower has. That's that's gotta
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: be the entire population of novices that she protected. So
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: the inciting incident of this long tangent is that I'm
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: wrong again.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: Hey, we're in that part. We're in those books where
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: the radiomedia is not up to date.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: It's definitely media.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: No, you're not pedaing at all. Well, and what's so
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: funny is Encyclopedia Watt also doesn't have memory of light
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: in it. So in a lot of.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: Ways, my ship Encyclopedia and the Radiopedia.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like how does how's the Radiopedia and it's
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: like Encyclopedia Watt both all my encyclopedias just don't include
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: the last couple of books that.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: Well, eh, that's funny.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: It's the Sanderson of it though, Like it's just it's
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: not as complicated to write and talk about.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except when it gets into the hard numbers of
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: how many eyes to die are involved in a given thing, right.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: Right right where we Oh, I close my book. That's
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: why I'm like, I was looking at other books.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: So we're at Agwayne thinking about how she fought and
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: how she was glorious, and how the tower is going
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: to need a strong leader in order to rebuild, and
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: the next few days are going to be really important
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: and this, you know, like gott to focus on the future,
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: but just going to take a few moments to rest.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: And then she gets picked up and she's like, oh,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: it's such a nice dream that I think that Gawain's
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: holding me. What a lovely way to get a few
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: moments of rest and turns out it's a real Gwain
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: living nightmare, and Swan and Brand are there and she's like, no,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: don't take me, I'm winning, But she's too tired to
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: like make her mouth make the words. She's just thinking
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: it really hard, which is insufficient to convince them to
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: let her stay there.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I destroyed them. I was a burning warrior,
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: a hero called by the Horn.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, girl, yes, you are a hero from the Horn.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: Fucking yes, and there.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: Face me again. Like that puts herself on that level
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: of accomplishment to be like I was just this burning
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: force in the wall that like held back a tide
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: of Sean chan by myself.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she is a hero too, that's how. That's why
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: she gets to deliver that line to Rand, like she's
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: a literal capital H hero.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: And this is like this impresses everybody, right, everyone saw
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: her realize who it was, well except the people pulling
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: her out of the freaking tower.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: Literally, her closest friends don't get it, but everyone else does.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's a fantasy trope where it's like
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: like everyone the hero does something amazing, or like his
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: closest allies thinking betrayed them, but the enemies know it
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: wasn't real, so they're like, your friends think you're a trader,
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: you know, like, but I know you're not, so I'm
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: gonna kill.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: You anyway, right, or even just the classic thing of
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: like in your hometown, you're never as cool as you
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: are out in the world where you made your mark,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: your hometown, people are always going to be like, yeah,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: whatever exactly, little kid like it doesn't matter.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: So Suan finds Vora song real and goes, oh, I
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: can make a gateway with this. Let's get the fuck
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: out of here. They head out of the White Tower,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: which also it's like a GWayne leaving. I know, it's
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: it's really frustrating. She could just make go another gateway
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: and walk right back in.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: Well, she thinks about it later and is like, no,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: the penachh is wrong.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: Because now it's like, oh, well you can come and
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: go as you please. There's you're not under any authority.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and po V switch back to Saren. Saren
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: is in the hospital slash command center, still in charge.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: Because that's how badly to care Appetita. The Towers leadership
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: is that Sayeran is still the highest ranked Isidai and
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: there's over twenty aid I dead known about so far.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: That's you know, a hint of the casualties to come.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: Sarah's wondering where Alida is while she continues to get
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: more and more reports of the dead and injured. No
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: one knows where Alida is. Hopefully the armor in the
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: hall could be gathered soon to present strong leadership.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: This is where we get the information about away and
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: only three of sixty novices and one of forty isid I.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that is you're right, And that's the.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: Ten shan Chan channelers captured. Like, that's ten taken from
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: sean Chan and potentially delivered to the Isidi to replace
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: the numbers that they lost.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: Not to mention how many did she blow out of
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: the sky that were on Rockin right, like.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, over thirty Rockin blown from the air again.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: Agwain's kill count is easily in the triple digits if
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: not edging towards four. And then in the middle of
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: all that, capt and chew Baine brings her an accepted
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: who had the fortune slash misfortune to be hit by
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: rocks and a wall collapsing when Alida's rooms were attacked
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: by the Shawan Chan and got left for dead and
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: can come down with the news that Alida is gone,
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: not dead, gone, And that's the same thing that happened
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: to Matt.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: He got left under her, left under a wall full
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: of rubble by the Seawan Chan.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this poor little Accepted has something in common with Matt.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: Came out from under a wall.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: This Accepted has been mentioned before. She tried to bully
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: Agwayne when she first came on, she was the one
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: who was like and then a Grain was like, oh yeah.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you remember that mayor yeah, and then
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: from that Stayer and going there's no way that she's
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: implying what I think she's implying. And then we pov
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: switched to Alida, who is very much no longer in
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: the tower.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: Right. She does that thing where she's like, I don't
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: want to wake up. It's cold out here, and it's
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: like you're not in your bed anymore. Elida, wakey, wakey.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: Things have gotten bad.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: And somehow she hasn't really gained full consciousness until now.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not totally sure how you can have your wall
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: blown in and get yoinked onto the roof and not
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: wake up until after the flight has started.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking maybe she got like hit in
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: the head a little bit by one of the bricks
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: that blew in, Like sure, so there's a little concussion
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: going on, like that's.
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was stunned for long enough that Okay, yeah, sure,
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: that's fine. I'll accept that.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't mention anything, but yeah, and she, you.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: Know, does the whole trying to channel, trying to struggle,
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: and then gets introduced to her soul dumb and it's nasty,
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: and uh, I really just have the readout to accompany
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: that horror.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: Just that the soufa to see Soufa later on with
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: in front of Tuan making gateways.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunate lawyer, all right, you're ready for the readout
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: on this long ass episode.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: Yep, go for it.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: A voice whispered from the night. I shall forgive that
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: little mistake. You have been marath Demani for very long
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: and bad habits are to be expected, but you will
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: not reach for the source again without permission. Do you understand?
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: Release me? Alida bellowed. The pain returned tenfold, and Alida
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: wretched at the intensity of it. Her bile and sick
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: up fell over the side of the beast and dropped
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: far to the ground below. Now, now, the voice said, patient,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: like a woman speaking to a very young child. You
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: must learn Your name is Suffa, and Supfa will be
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: a good demani. Yes, she will a very very good damani.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Alida screamed again, and this time she didn't stop when
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: the pain came. She just kept screaming out into the
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: uncaring night.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: Pretty brutal there.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: It's the moment when a villain goes from yeah, anything
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: to get you out of the plata. Oh no, not
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: like that, Like, oh oh, I don't want to feel
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: good about that. That doesn't make me feel okay at all.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things though, is like it's something
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: Agwaine has gone through, and you're like, oh, Agwayne went
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: through it and came out the other side better. What's
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: going to happen to Alida? Not that likeable? But yeah,
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: well yeah, sure, yeah, she came out stronger, strong, sure, sure, sure.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Alida will not maintain who she is the
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: way that Agwain did. Alida will not be rescued. I
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: mean that's the thing too. Is Awayin thinks in this
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: section about how she could feel her will eroding and
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: she knew that at some point she wasn't going to
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: be able to fight anymore. She gets rescued before that happens,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: like I had, no one ever rescues her, No one's
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: ever gonna come for her. She has no hope of
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: being rescued, and no one ever comes for her, So like, yeah,
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: it's it's rough to know that someone less likable and
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: less strong than a GWayne is going in. But nonetheless,
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: someone that we've known for a long time in the
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: book is going into that with no hope of coming out.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, someone who started off like we met her
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: in the garden when rand fell in long time ago
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: with that prophecy.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like he's been around longer than Varren, who just
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: died right like she's been around. And you know what
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: happens to people in that imprisonment and we know, as
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: spoiler people the Tower very happily chooses to not pursue
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: rescuing her because she was so awful and it's such
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: a difficult situation. But like if Agwayne had been captured,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know that they would have given up so easily, you.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: Know, right right it is, I don't know that is
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: one of the most unrealistic things. But I guess in war,
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: but usually there's prisoner exchanges in war, you know, but
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: the sean Chan aren't interested in that, not with the
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: marath the money.
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: But I feel like an attempt would have been made
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: with a GWayne in a way that it never will
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: be for allied. Elia did not earn the loyalty of
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: people asking for the impossible.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: Well, good riddance.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: I feel so bad saying good riddance. You know, it's
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: like not magic slavery. No, couldn't you just have killed her?
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't that I'd feel okay with it. But yeah, but
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: then she tries to throw other eyes to die under
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: the bus, like you know, I'll trade you twenty for me,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, she sucks, and if if anyone were
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: to deserve this, it would be her. No one deserves this,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: but if anyone did, it would be her.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to draw any parallels with our
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: current president, but if anyone deserved it, yeah, No, the
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: parallels are there, but you could argue they're there every
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: like this is just you write history, and it feels
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: like writing prophecy right now.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: We talked about it last time. It's a it's a
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. It's I keep going on tangents
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: and then being like I'm going to edit that out,
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: and then I get to it like, well, but when
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: do I cut myself off? Because like the blend from
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: talking about the books of talking about modern things, it's
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: just so seamless. It's like, where do I cut myself
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: off in a way that like it's a challenge. Editing
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: is a challenge. Speaking of editing being a challenge, let's
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: turn this episode off.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: Well, you don't want to edit more now it's drivel bullshit.
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: We already have witty banter from the beginning for the end.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: H thank god none of that was recorded.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah that nope, I don't need to hear.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: That a formal thank you to.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: This is just open therapy time, not anymore because now
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: the mics are on.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: Well come on, you don't want to hear about my
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: trauma on live.
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: Hey, if you want to come share therapeutic cathartic space
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: with people that isn't legally speaking, not therapy, you can
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: come to my support group.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: On Thursdays legally speaking, not therapy.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: It's very important that I emphasize that I am not
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: doing therapy. It's like actually legally important.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: Gosh, is there anything that we just talked about or
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: anything we should get on record for the lifestyle changes
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: that are going on.
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: You were telling me that Harvey is very nearly a
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: good very nearly a good boy time. I mean, he's
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: always a good boy fundamentally. Yes, you were saying he's improving,
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: continuing to improve.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: He's continuing to improve, right, pretty much. He's he's calming down,
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: quicker with strangers, listening more. He's very snugly more of
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: most of the time. He's not barking at us, he's
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: not biting at us, he's not nipping as much. You know,
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: it's still the behavior still all occur, but only in
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: like very small bursts, only when he's very tired. Yeah,
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: he's just he's turning into a very good dog because
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: he is highly motivated to listen to what we want.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: He very much, you know, cares about what we want
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: from him. He's a very smart dog. He's not super
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: food motivated, especially when he's at the park. He's much
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: more attention motivated. So yeah, it's uh, And he's about
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: to turn a year probably by the time this recording
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: comes out. He will have turned a year old. He'll
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: turn a year on the twenty ninth of this month.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: Happy birthda have happy BIRTHDAYA Harvey.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, actually will come out on his birthday because yeah,
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: we record nine days before the episode's released. So yeah,
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: that's perfect. Everyone wish a happy birthday.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: He is a year old, and yeah we are. We
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: are learning to live with each other. Although he will
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: eat anything I leave out on the counter if I
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: leave him alone for three seconds, he is tall enough
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: to get up on there and just go to town.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: Well that's what lucky boys get to do.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: And it's like create challenge. Remember put the food away.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: Put the food away. That's what I have to do.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: I can't leave the food out because Timber, I mean,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: was never much for eating off the counters. He was
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: always good about doing it. He wouldn't eat anything without permission.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: And he couldn't get up there anyway because he had
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: bad hips. So there's there's a learning curve, certainly with
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: a new dog, because he's an individual and yet still
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: a dog and still a pity right, So he's got
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: some of that same stubborn personality while at the same
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: time feeling being highly intentive but sometimes choosing not to listen.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: Intelligent intelligence, Yes, intelligent in a very specific, talkyway, in.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: A very parent of the two rivers, stubborn asshole kind
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: of way.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, my life, I don't. I guess I can
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: report that my strawberry rock decoys appear to be working.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: Oh nice, Well, if.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: I talked about those podcasts a bit, and yeah, so far,
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: I have had my first harvest of strawberries, just a
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: few of them, and none of them had bird bites
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: on them. M so, and I've got a lot of
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: ripening berries out there. Like I was watching this one
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: ripening right next to a rock, and I was checking
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: it every day, and I think it worked. I think
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: the rocks works like. I'll continue to report throughout the
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: strawberry harvesting season. But it seems at first glance that
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: if you paint rocks red and lay them out in
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: your strawberry plants before there's any fruit, like while the
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: flowers are bloom, you got to put the rocks out
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: before there's any hint of fruit. Apparently then the birds
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: don't want to eat them. So that's my update.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, we we found out a house on our street
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: went up for sale and the guy who lived there
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: was apparently the crow whisperer of the street and fed
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: and trained all the crows and he's gone now, so
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: Never is extremely excited to be taking over as the
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: crow whisperer of the neighborhood. And so we're setting out fun.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: We got peanuts. We've got a balcony and we're setting
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: out peanuts for them to come to, and we bring
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: unsalted peanuts on the dogwalks to feed the birds. And so, yeah,
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's a good thing because they dive
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: bomb us for food. And I've been smacked in the
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: back of the head multiple times by crows who are
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: demanding treats, So I'm not entirely happy about that.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, start carrying like a tennis racket with.
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: Well, because they recognize Harvey, right and they know that
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 2: like the person walking, Harvey gives them treats.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: So well, maybe you just have to learn to feed
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: the crow.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: I've been doing well. I have been, I have been lately,
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: So now they know me too, because they're smart. Yeah,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: I'm developing. I'm developing my own Ravens eyes is basically
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying. It's it's pretty great.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: You're gonna know this is good. This is good. The
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: couple who have the murder of crows of the neighborhood
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: on their side, Like, you don't want to fuck with
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: them because they.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: Have the cross exactly exactly, they will they will attack
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: you if you bring shit down. Crows. Remember, they're smart.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: They are so smart, like comparable only to you know, ravens,
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: like I mean in general, Yeah, are incredibly smart, and yeah,
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: don't do not underestimate them. Even blue jays are very
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: very smart. Even though they are you know, rebelliously blue
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: instead of black, they are still very very smart.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: Well, and I grew up with macaws in my house, right,
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: so I am very familiar with how smart a bird
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: can be. To the point where the bird would say
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: my name when I walked into the room, and would
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: you know, call out for me. They could ask for
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: things that they wanted, right, because they it's like giving
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: the dog the buttons, right, Like, they can say words
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: that represent what they They can be trained to say
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: words to get what they want. And it's a very
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: kind of creepy, especially because they can mimic sounds. Yeah,
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: to a very high degree.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: Bird mimicry sounds is the number of times.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: I think my mom was laughing in the other room
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: when she wasn't home because the bird would mimic that
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: sound exactly, terrifying, terrifying.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, birds are creepy and awesome. They're dinosaurs. They're creepy.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: They're creepy, awesome, awesome and creepy.
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: The phone will ring, they'd say hello before you pick
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: up the phone. I mean, yeah, there's all sorts of
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. Examples are endless, and I'm sure people
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: who have had birds know all about it. But like, yeah,
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: I you can't see the intelligence and birds and the
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: intelligence and dogs and not realize that we just have
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: a slightly different kind of intelligence. We're not really that special.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 2: We're just different.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, any creature who does a certain level of like
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: social interaction with its fellows has a kind of intelligence
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: that is easily recognized across species. No, they're smart. They
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: we just have different things that we need to do
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: with our brains. That's it. That's all.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: They understand that I want something. They understand that I
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: want something, and that that is a terrified Like you
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: know the fact that you can point dogs follow where
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: you point, right, they don't just look at your finger
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: they understand that you're pointing at something.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dogs, horses, birds like, yeah, they can all follow
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: a couple of steps. I mean freaking I was just
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: watching the True Facts. If anyone hasn't watched True Facts
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, you are missing out. True Facts is so amazing.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: It's very very silly but also true. It's all science.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: And I was just rewatching the one about New Caledonian
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: crows and all of their tool use. They're very very
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: tool usy crows and yeah, so smart, so smart. They
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: can do multi step tool manufacturing problem solving. It's very cool.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: I'll put a link in the show notes. It just yeah, was.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: That by Zay Frank?
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, Zay Frank. That is an internet classic. Oh man,
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 2: he has been around for a long time and he's
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: done some really great things on the Internet. Are you
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: familiar with his early work? Uh?
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: Nope, No, I know him as True Facts.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, hmmm, we shall have a discussion.
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, I guess I've been fucking up all right?
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: He did? Oh gosh, I want to get this right,
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: so I'm going to look up the details because I
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: don't want to.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: I did see him do an intro to a TED
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: talk which was really surreal and weird and strange.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: So he did something called The Show with Zay Frank
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: in two thousand and six, Oh oh wow, And this
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: was he would release a video every single day three
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: to five minutes of just absurd, surrealistic humor and it
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: was some of the og internet stuff that is just
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: so good and I highly recommend it, and it was
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: just he ended it on a high note. He did
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: it for a year and stopped it and it was
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: really sad. But then you know, he went on to
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: do a bunch about this stuff.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I always figured he had a prior body of
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: work because True Facts feels like it's, you know, standing
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: on the on its own shoulders of giants kind of thing.
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the channel, I had never seen anything but
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: True Facts videos on it.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: And honestly, the True Facts video is very much in
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: the style of like it was like a one off
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 2: of one of his videos that he did in the show,
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: with that sort of mocking documentary style. But then he
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: started doing actual documentaries and that's how like I think honestly,
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: True Facts was a spin off eventually of the show,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: simply because the style is very similar. It's just back
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: then he was doing comedy and now he's doing much
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: more science based stuff, but in a funny way.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: It's so funny. Yeah, it's so funny. Like he takes
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: the most like niche freaking PhD thesies and somehow makes
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: like really silly comedy out of it. It's the most
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: amazing thing. Yeah, if anyone out there listening, if you
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: are not watching these videos, you are missing out. But no,
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. I'm gonna have to look up that original
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: stuff because that feels like a rather glaring hole in
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: my understanding of the law of this character of this person.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: He's not a character, he's a real person.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah. And it looks like it's all available, or
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: at least most of it's available on YouTube. I will
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: go ahead and throw a link there for at least
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: for radio.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: Clearly, I just don't care. I'm just a bad fan.
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just a fake fan.
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: And this was there's you know, three hundred and sixty
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: five ish videos because you did it for one year.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: Well I think you might have not done weekends. So
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: two hundred and forty five videos.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, every weekday. Wow, that's so early in internet history.
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it is an establishing moment like the absurdness
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: of the Internet and YouTube. He was absolutely like the
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: founding member of why YouTube is the way it is.
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to like submit this to Jamie Loftus
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: for sixteenth minute and be like, why are you not
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: talking about Zee Frank? I need you, I need you
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: to do this. Wow.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: Amazing kind of like the The Green Brothers right, sort
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 2: of someone who was like, really.
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have completely heard of.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the early founding of the internet, and I feel
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: like have guided it since then in certain ways, at
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: least by being inspiration for a lot of other people.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: So this guy is like the Sparks of the YouTube.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: You're not familiar with Sparks the band, are you? Sparks
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: is the weird band that all your favorite bands are
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: listening to, gotcha and have been since like the eighties.
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: My dad is one of the most hardcore fan boys
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: that that band has. Like, you've never heard of them,
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: but everyone everyone that you like to listen to has
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: heard of them. Is kind of who they are. So
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: this sounds like kind of the Sack No one's heard
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: of him, but also everyone who makes the stuff you
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 1: have heard of has heard of him.
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 2: I think so yeah, at least in my areas of
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: the Internet when I was growing up fascinating. There was
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: a brief time after college where I had some connections
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: to people who were building the Internet, like you know,
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: friend of a friend type situation, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: so I did get some early invites to some of
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 2: those you know, all those social media apps, and I
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: don't know anyway, let's move on from this.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: Do you want to start preambling on what are double
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: Header is going to be today? Thank you for listening
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate and
• 2:14:50
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• 2:14:53
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• 2:14:57
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• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: from Fox and Ravenmedia, visit our website at Foxendravenmedia dot com.