Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Peter Porco

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The Murder of Peter Porco · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's wild when you think of all the reasons and
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: motivations behind murder. There's jealousy, rage, revenge, and money. People
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: do some pretty desperate things when it comes to money.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: In today's case, a couple were brutally attacked as they
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: slept in the comfort of their own home, all because
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of money. If that isn't crazy enough, the idea that
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the murderer could have been their own son makes it
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: all that much more disturbing. This is the story of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the Porko family Axe Murder.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: The following podcast material for a mature audience listener discretion.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: It's kind of day.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: We're both drinking tea. I'm drinking herbal tea, but you're
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: drinking a twisted tea.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: No free advertising on the show. Come on, no, it
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: is definitely twisted tea. We should do that, just like
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you know, instead of free advertising, just reach out to
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: these brands and be like, yo, I'm going to drink
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: a drink on our show. You should sponsor it. If not,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: we're not going to say your name.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I don't know if we've made it
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: quite that big extortion.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: No, I'm definitely not going to do that. But I'm
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: just I'm enjoying a tea and this is a case
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that a drink will sit good on.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, especially now that it's I feel like a nice
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: warm cup of tea though it also helps you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: this kind of stuff.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: It definitely can I'm just saying for me, it takes
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: that edge off. Yeah, hey, sometimes a nice cold glass
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: of water takes the edge.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Off too, right, Well, it's supposed to get cold as
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: hell here, so that's actually that doesn't make any sense.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Cold as hell doesn't make sense.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Honestly, most of the things when you say it's cold
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: as blank doesn't make sense. Yeah, cold as hell doesn't
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: make sense. Cold as balls doesn't make sense.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Like ball shiver shivery, Wow.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Don't say that. Just just skip over it cold.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Just let's move on anyway. It's going
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: to be like minus twenty eight celsius, which is just
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: fucking frutal.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Our balls are going to be cold, is what Nicole's
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: trying to say.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, I am so tired, so just like, don't judge me,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: just don't judge. For this episode, I have been getting
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: like five hours of sleep a night for a few
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: too many nights, so fair enough, just bear with me.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I do think that you need to buckle up,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: whether you're tired or not, for this case. This is
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the story of the Porco family axe murder. Or is
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: this is titled the Murder of Peter Porko because well,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: he's the main victim. I get one of the main
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: victims in this one. He is the one who gets killed.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think we need to tell his story. Okay,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you ready for it?
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I am. I haven't no idea what's going to happen here,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: but I'm ready.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Well, like I say, buckle up. So on the morning
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: of November fifteenth, two thousand and four, Peter Porko, a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: law clerk from the New York State Supreme Court Applelit Division,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: didn't show up for work in Albany like he normally did.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: He hadn't called in or let anyone know that he'd
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: be absent that day, which was very unusual. So earned
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: his colleague, since Court Officer Michael Hart, to check in
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: on him at his home at Broccoli Drive in Delmar.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Broccoli Drive, Brockley, Oh, Broccoli okay. I was like, I
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: love that, I want to live there.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: It's Brock, like the name Brock, and then l e
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: y brah Okay, broccoli not broccoli.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Broccoli would be cool, would it?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Well? When Michael arrived and walked up to the house,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: he glanced through the front door window and immediately he
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: was met with a horrific sight. There was Peter's lifeless,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: blood covered body sprawled across the floor without hesitation. He
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: called for emergency responders, who quickly arrived to the scene.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Now when they were there, they made their way inside,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and they found fifty two year old Peter Porco dead,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: laying in a pool of his home blood. He had
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: suffered severe head trauma. His wife, sixty four, well not
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: sixty four, fifty four year old my apologies, Joan Porco,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: was discovered in bed, also brutally attacked. She though was alive,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: barely clinging to life. She was unable to speak and
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: could barely move, but she managed to raise a hand
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to signal that she was still conscious.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Holy okay.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Beside her on the bed was the murder weapon, a
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: bloodied fireman axe.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: There are some weapons I feel like that just like
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: make you cringe. That someone would ever use that on
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: another human being.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: If there is a weapon that screams brutality, it's going to.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Be an en. Oh gosh, yeah, that's scary now.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: The Court Medical Examiner, doctor Jeffrey Hubbard, later determined that
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Peter had been struck multiple times with the axe sixteen
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to be specific, one blow going straight through his skull
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and another slicing off part of his jaw. Joan had
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: also been hit three times, cause devastating injuries. Her jaw
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: was shattered, her skull was split wide open, deep enough
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to expose her brain, and she lost an eye and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: several teeth. No Investigators soon realized that the acts belonged
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: to the Porco family, meaning the attacker had not brought
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a weapon with them to the home, but the used
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: one that was already there. So this adding to the mystery.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Something else. Someone had cut the phone lines, they'd disarmed
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the burglary alarm, and sliced through a window screen. Peter
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and Joan had been savagely attacked in their sleep, as
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: far as police could determine, sometime between one thirty am
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and six thirty am, But what happened next made this
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: case even more chilling see, despite the massive injuries that
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: he suffered, Peter didn't die immediately. Incredibly, his brain injury
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: caused him to go into a sort of autopilot. He
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: began performing routine tasks as if nothing went wrong. For
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: what so after the attack on that morning, his alarm
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: went off. Okay, police were able to follow the blood
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: trail through the house like the and I'm talking a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: blood trail, like there was blood everywhere. They went and
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: followed the blood trail, and they were able to retrace
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: his steps. They found he got out of bed and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: began his usual routine, all while covered in blood from
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: this catastrophic head trauma. They tracked his way through the
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: house and he went first to the bathroom, where it
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: appeared he attempted to try and shave, his daily routine.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: He likely stared down his own reflection in the mirror,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: unaware of the extent of his injuries. And I mean
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: there's blood pooling in the sink beneath him. He had been,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, struck sixteen times in the head with
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: an axe. A large section of his skull was missing,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: his brain was partially exposed, and most of his jaw
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: was gone, and he stood in the mirror as if
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: nothing was.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Wrong, just like getting ready for the day exactly ho shit,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: His body kept moving, he kept going through the motions,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: and he made his way out of the bathroom dazed,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: and in this dying state, he made.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: His way down to the kitchen. There he loaded the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: dishwasher with the dishes from the last night's dinner and
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: even packed himself a lunch, getting ready for his day
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: at work, completely unaware of the horrific injuries he was
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: currently suffering. His body was running on nothing less than
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: adrenaline and muscle memory at this point, and if it
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: wasn't shocking enough, he then walked out to the front
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: door grabbed the morning newspaper, only to accidentally lock himself
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: out of the house in the process. There, standing outside
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the locked door, drenched in blood with severe brain trauma,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Peter had enough awareness about him to remember they had
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: a spare key hidden under the front pot plant. He
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: bent down, grabbed the key, unlocked the door, and stepped
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: back inside with the newspaper. But that was it. Whatever
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: was keeping him going finally gave out. His body collapsed
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: there in the foyer, face down in a pool of blood,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: and that's where he remained until he was found.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Seriously, hey, yeah, the best way to describe it was
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: he was a zombie. I almost have trouble just like
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: comprehending that. I know, like there would have had to
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: been something I don't know, like seriously wrong with his
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: brain kind of thing. Right. And then was it like
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the blood loss that made him eventually just collapse and
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: pass away?
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Most likely? Most likely? Now the thing is like he
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: was clearly in a massive amount of shock, right, Yeah.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And my assumption is when his alarm went off that morning,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: we just I mean, lots of us have had this
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: happen before we can even react. We're just so used
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to that routine of getting up for work in the morning.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: We reach over, turn our alarm, clock off, turn the
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: light on, or grab our phone. We have a routine
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that we immediately set into.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Well, gosh, you think he'd be like, well, I feel
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: particularly sore this morning, Like that is crazy.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: But with the adrenaline, he's numb.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I guess. Holy shit.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: And he was quite literally operating on autopilot, not recognizing
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: anything around him, not even recognizing what was going on
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: in the mirror in front of him. When he looked
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: at himself, like.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: He literally went and loaded the dishwasher.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: He loaded the dishwaking in his lunch. Yes, now there
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: are crime scene photos and I saw photos of this dishwasher,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and it is there's blood droplets all over it, there's
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: handprints on the dishes from him loading like it's bloody,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't see this. He's just loading the dishwasher.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: It's honestly kind of sad.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: It really is when you think about this, No, it
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: really is.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Like you wonder, well, I don't know. I'm just like, gosh,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: if you like realized what the hell had happened, like
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: if his brain allowed him to do that and then
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: he's got help, would that have changed anything? But probably not.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I don't assuming.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I think the extent of his injuries were unfortunately too far.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: But there is a very sad moral to that part
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: of the story, if I may digress for a moment,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: is he was so concerned with getting to work he
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: had no idea of his own well being. And I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: think that goes for many people today. Honestly, they're so
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: consumed with the job they don't look at themselves and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: their own well being.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: But I digress, well, and I just have to say too.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Though.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Imagine getting hit sixteen times by an axe and still
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: being able to crawl your ass out of bed. Yeah,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: that is uncomprehendible.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Can you barely crawl my ass out of bed on
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: the best of days?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Like WHOA? Just like, I don't know, strength and our
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: bodies are just kind of incredible sometimes, I guess.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Now. The only surviving witness to this crime was his wife, Joan.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Though she lived, the attack left her permanently disfigured. She
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: lost an eye, her face was so badly damaged that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: it would never be the same, and when police arrived,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: they wasted no time trying to get answers from her
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: because they knew that she might not survive these injuries,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: so they had to act fast, being that this is
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the only witness that they had right now. She couldn't speak,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: but she was able to communicate by nodding or shaking
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: her head in response to yet or no questions.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, the fact that she couldn't speak, because I was
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: a bit concerned or confused. I was like, well, she's
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: just talking to her husband and he was just going
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: on is like day without I was just curious how
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: that went down. But Okay, that makes sense. Now.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: There is some debate among this. I saw a few
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: reports saying that she blinked in response instead of nodding,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: blinking once for no and twice for yes or something
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: like that, but majority of sources that I found said
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: that she nodded. Honestly, it's impressive if she was able
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: to do either, because hey, remember she lost an eye,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: so blinking's impressive for one, and nodding being struck in
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the head like that also think spinal injury again impressive. Yes,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: But as far as I can tell, she was nodding,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: not blinking, and with that police would get their first
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: suspect by getting her to answer these yes or no questions.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So their first suspect was an individual by the name
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: of Christopher Porko.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was gonna be like, was it the neighbor?
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Nope, the sun?
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: The sun.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Now a detective on the scene, we're working as paramedics
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: were trying to stabilize Joan, and he was asking if
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: she was able to identify the person responsible, and he's like,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: was it a family member, which, of course is like
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: one of the first questions they always ask, right, Hey,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: family members statistically most likely those close to the victims, right, yep.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: She indicated yes, and he asked, He's like, was it
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: your older son, because he knew there's two sons here, right,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and she shook her head, No, was it your younger son?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And she nodded yes, younger son being christopher older son Jonathan.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: So she indicated it was Christopher, the younger son, and
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: that was all investigators needed. Joan was rushed to the hospital,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: where she underwent a grueling twelve hour surgery before being
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: placed into a medical induced coma. But the damage was done,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: and police considered her response as confirmation that Christopher had
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: attacked his parents, killing his father and nearly killing his mother.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Probably suspected that he did kill her.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Two hours later, an APB or an all points
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: bulletin was issued for Christopher Porko. Now to understand what
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: led up to the horrific events in the Porco family household,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: we need to take a closer look at the family itself.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So we're going to reel it back just a little bit, okay,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: back in time a bit so Peter Parko and Joan
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Belzano I believe how you say her name married in
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies, eventually setting into a comfortable life
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: in Delmar, which is located in New York. It's a
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: quiet suburban neighborhood near Albany. They had two sons, Jonathan,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: born in nineteen eighty one and Christopher, who arrived in
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: July ninth of nineteen eighty three. Peter worked as a
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: law clerk in the State Appellate Division, while Joan built
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: a career as a children's speech pathologist. By two thousand
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and four, their eldest son, Jonathan, was twenty three years
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: old who was an officer in the US Navy stationed
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina. Meanwhile, twenty one year old Christopher was
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: attending the University of about two hundred and thirty miles away.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: There was no outright rivalry between the brothers, but it
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: was clear Jonathan followed a more disciplined, responsible path, earning
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the family's admiration for his dedication to the military. Christopher,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, had a troubling pattern of deception, fraud,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and reckless behavior at school. Christopher was known for being
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: tall and good looking and charismatic, but he was also
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: a compulsive liar. He boasted about coming from an ultra
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: wealthy family with multiple properties and luxury vacation's home, luxury
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: vacation homes and such. Though none of this was true,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a former classmate recalled that some teachers considered him quote insane,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: and as he grew older, his behavior became more concerning.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Christopher had a history of staging fake burglaries in his
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: own home. At nineteen, he stole two of his parents' laptops,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a Mac and Adele. Then on twenty first, two thousand
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and three, while home for summer break, he sold yet
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: another laptop and sold it on eBay. His dishonesty extended
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: beyond the home, though. While working at a veterinary clinic
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: during college, the facility experienced a string of burglaries involving
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: missing electronic equipment. Then in October of two thousand and four,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: just a month before the murders, both Jonathan and Christopher
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: froze their eBay accounts. Why because Christopher had scammed customers
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: out of their money. See he had sold items online
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: but never delivered the goods, and in a desperate attempt
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to avoid accountability, he pretended to be his older brother
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Jonathan on his account and emailed the victims claiming Christopher
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: had suddenly died as a way to escape actually delivering this,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and he's just like, yeah, sorry, my brother died, I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: can't deliver these items. Yeah.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: That is shady, isn't it.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: So this, of course paints a picture of a disturbing
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: young man willing to lie and steal for personal gain,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and investigators would later argue that this was just the
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: beginning of a much more sinister plan. Authorities believe Christopher
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: saw his parents as a solution to his financial problems,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: but not in the way a struggling student might normally
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: turn to family for help. He had a site set
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: on potentially their life insurance payout a sum of over
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: a million dollars, and the fastest way to access that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: money may very well have been murder.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: That.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I just feel like that doesn't work. No, it doesn't,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Like you're just like an complete idiot. And also like,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: do your parents their life not mean anything to you?
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, clearly not, clearly not. It's funny. I just
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: realized I'm in the middle of researching another case for
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Patreon exclusive episode and it also involves a life insurance
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: policy scandal. Just clued into that. But yeah, and again
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: for that one, it didn't work either.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I just can't comprehend, like you're wanting this life
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: insurance of your parents and so you're gonna go and
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: kill them with like an axe. I just that just
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: isn't like, I don't know, that's just dumb. It's stupid,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: it really is.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: But I mean, money does a lot of stupid shit
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: to people, debt, and especially when you're in debt, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Christopher had racked up a lot of debt, mostly through
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: reckless spending. See, he wasn't focusing on his studies because
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: we know that he's in post secondary.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Right right, which I was like, that's good.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, he instead was basically he went to extreme
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: lengths to maintain the illusion of wealth this whole time, right, Like,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: for example, his most prized possession was a brand new,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: bright yellow Jeep Wrangler, which is an expensive, basically status
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: symbol that he drove around campus.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: No student going to college needs a brand new vehicle,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: let alone and jeep Wrangler. Not saying Wranglers are like
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: top tier, but they.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Ain't cheap, you know, well, yeah, a brand new vehicle
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: ain't cheap.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, his financial troubles combined with his obsession with
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: appearing rich put a strain on his relationship with his parents.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: There are email exchanges that were found between Peter, Joan
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and Christopher in the months leading up to the attack,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: revealing increasing tension over money. His parents were frustrated. They
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: were worried and running out of patience with their youngest
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: son's irresponsibility. But while they may have thought Christopher was
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: just a reckless spender, they had no idea how far
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: he was actually really willing to go. Now, the tension
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: between them had reached I've been building, let's say that,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: for a while, but the real breaking point seemed to
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: come at the end of the fall semester in two
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: thousand and three. At the time, Christopher was a student
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: at the University of Rochester, as I mentioned, but due
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: to his consistently poor grades, school officials had to withdraw
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: him from his courses. So instead of getting zac together,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: he transferred to Hudson Valley Community College in Troy, New York.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: But the change in scenery didn't help. He never even
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: completed a full semester. In fact, Peter and Joan eventually
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: learned that what was going on, and in March of
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four, while Christopher was off on a
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: care free trip to England. Yeah, they sent him an
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: email with a subject line failing grades. You did it again, huh.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: So basically he was forced out of the initial college
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: because his grade sucked. Yea, went to a different one
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and his grade sucked again. And here he is off
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: in England and his parents are finding out about his
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: bad grades.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's just like, yeah, it doesn't give a shit,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So in this email, they were, of course very
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: disappointed and frustrated, and they wrote, quote, you just left
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and we can't believe our eyes as we look at
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: your interim grade report. You know what they say, three
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: strikes and you're out. Explain yourself and explain he did.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: He wrote back, and explained by lying as usual. A
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: few days later. In this email, when he wrote back,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: he blamed the school quote, Obviously they're incorrect. My lowest
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: grade on anything was a B on a physics test.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Don't jump to conclusions. I'm fine.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I don't even actually understand how they got his grades. Really,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Like he's I feel like, when you're in post secondary
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: parents aren't really you know, privy to that sort of
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: stuff necessarily.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure, Like they're kind of paying for his
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: schooling and stuff, right, so they might have like signed
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: up to get grades through their email or something too.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: That might have been part of it, like yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: We want I guess yeah they're paying now.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Christopher also spun a story about one of his professors
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: losing his final exam in this email, claiming that the
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: reason for his failing grade was this, basically saying like, yeah,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: my professor lost my final exam, which resulted in me
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: going from an A or a B to a failing grade.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah that doesn't make sense at all.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, to top it all off, he reassured his
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: parents the school was going to cover his next semester's
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: tuition fee due to this mistake, which was another blatant lie.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: But Christopher didn't stop at just deceiving his parents. He
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: took it a step further. He convinced them that he
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: needed their financial information, claiming he required a loan for
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: them to co sign to cover a two thousand dollars
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: tuition fee of sorts. Whether it was backdated fees or
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it's unclear, but there was a two thousand dollars fee.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: He claimed he needed them to co sign for In reality,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: he was about to use their details to secure a
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: loan for thirty one thousand dollars from City Bank, listing
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: his father Peter as a co signer without his consent.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she's just completely using.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Them, Yes he is, huh Now. Christopher wanted to return
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: to the University of Rochester, but with his disastrous academic record,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: that wasn't about to happen. So what he did was
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: he turned to his usual tactic of fraud. He forged
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: transcripts from Hudson Bay Community College, giving himself perfect grades
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: or near perfect grades. Anyways, with his fabricated academic success,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: he reapplied to the university and was now accepted once again.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Peter and Joan had no idea that their son was
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: up to this. For a while, it seemed like Christopher
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: had gotten away with it, but then Peter discovered the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: fraudulent bank transaction and immediately tried to reach his son. However,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: his phone calls were going unanswered, so Joan tried. They
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: went unanswered too. Days turned to weeks, and Christopher was
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: just ignoring them completely, and Peter had had enough. Frustrated
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and furious, he sent another email quote did you forge
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: my signature as a co signer. What the hell are
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: you doing? You should have called me to discuss it.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I'm calling City Bank this morning to find out what
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you've done. I'm going to tell them I refer used
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to be on it as a co signer. The next day,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: City Bank delivered more bad news. Christopher had also taken
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: out a car loan for the continued payments of his
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: jeep Wrangler Oh no, again using his dad's forged signature.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Peter sent another message, this time issuing a warning quote,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I want you to know that if you abuse my
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: credit again, I will be forced to file forgery affidavits
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: in order to disclaim liability that applies to Citybank college
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: loans if you attempt to reactivate it or use my
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: credit to obtain any other loan.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I mean that's that's really overstepping it really is.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And honestly, like, I understand the anger in these emails.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: But despite this anger and frustration, Peter Peter loved his son. Yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and this was still evident because he ended the email
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: with a heartfelt message quote, we may be disappointed with you,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: but your mother and I still love you and care
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: about your future. Oh my gosh, yeah it was. And
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: he was like warning his son. He wasn't just like
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: going right, you know. And what did he say?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: What was his threat that he was going to do
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: file affidavits.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like he didn't just go and do that right away. No,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: it's like you can tell these are good parents exactly.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: No, these they're keeping law out of it. They're trying
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: to talk about it and figure it out. But unfortunately
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Christopher was not trying to figure it out. He was
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: just going to continue to do these these negative, fraudulent things,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and it was pushing them further and further.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Because like, I don't know back then how much a
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: jeep wrangler would wrangler wrangler? Yeah, I would cost say
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: twenty five grand or whatever. I have no idea.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Well that we're Canadian too, so that's American, so maybe
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: even like twenty American.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: And so like, but still fifty thousand dollars is what
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: he had made his dad Cose sign on. Basically, Yeah,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: that's a lot of money.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Now, it was clear that his parents wanted to mend
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: things that. As we just mentioned, they wanted Christopher to
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: come home face the consequences, of course, but they also
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: want to work towards a fresh start, and Christopher did
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: come home, but as we know, not to make things right.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, is that when he came home? Yes,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: oh no.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: His parents hoped to resolve the issues, but he had
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: something else in mind to resolve it than talking.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: So by now, as I mentioned, this is when he
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: came home. Peter was found dead and Joan was in
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: the hospital, and police had Christopher in their sights. They
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: caught up with them and they questioned him about his
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: whereabouts on the night of November fourteenth to fifteenth in
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four. He had a ready answer. He
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: claimed that he spent the night at the Monroe House,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: a dormitory lounge in the University of Rochester, about three
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and a half hours away in Delmar, so this would
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: be on his campus, right. He said. He only learned
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: about his parents' attack the next morning, when the Times
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Union reporter covering the crime reached out to his roommate
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: for information about the Porco family. The moment he found out,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Christopher said he immediately rushed home to Albany and went
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: to see his mother in the medical center. In the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: medical center where she was undergoing surgery and recovering.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like terrifying, though. I hope, like, I hope, okay,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: you get well, I'm just like he didn't get in there, right,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: because that's just oh man, Okay.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I'm unsure if he did. I'm assuming he probably did,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: but yeah, the thought of the murderer, Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: So detectives weren't satisfied with his answer. They questioned his
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: fraternity brothers, friends, campus safety officers, and even his ex
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: girlfriend about his whereabouts during the critical early morning hours
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: of November fifteenth. Two weeks later, a grand jury was
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: convened by the Albany Court District Attorney Office to hear
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: testimony that could implement implicate there we go, implicate Christopher
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: in his father's murder.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: During this closed door hearing, witnesses including fraternity brothers from
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Sigma Sigma Pi Epsilon, classmates, and former girlfriend testified. Finally,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: nearly a year after the attack, in November of two
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: thousand and five, Christopher was formally charged. But just when
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the case seemed air tight, a shocking twist changed everything.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Christopher's mother, Joan Porko, had emerged from her coma, and
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: when she did, she insisted her son had nothing to
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: do with the attack.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: What the yeah, okay? I was not expecting that whatsoever.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, She said her son had nothing to do with it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: She even recorded a videotape statement for the grand jury
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: in December of two thousand and five, talking about her
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: family but refusing to identify Christopher as the attacker. Over
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the coming months, jones unwavering loyalty to her son became
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: a focal point as the case headed to trial.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: What yeah, because what was that? Probably the main evidence
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: was her primarily yeah, huh okay.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: By then, the case had gained widespread media attention in Albany,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: so Christopher's trial was moved to Goshen, Orange County, New York.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: It began on June twenty seventh, two thousand and six.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: He faced two charges, second degree murder for killing his
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: father and second degree attempted murder for the brutal attack
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: on his mother. Prosecutors were adamant Christopher drove over three
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: hours to Albery in the early morning of November fifteenth
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: to kill his parents in cold blood. The evidence seemed overwhelming,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: which of course contradicted his alibi, proving that he wasn't
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: at his dorms that night see his own fraternity brothers
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: testified not a single one could place him at the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: dormitory during those hours. Meanwhile, classmates described Christopher as an
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: increasingly heavy drinker who had once threatened to kill a
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: female student. Security cambriage footage from the University of Rochester
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: captured a yellow jeep Wrangler identical to Christopher's, leaving campus
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: at ten thirty pm on November fourteenth and returning at
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: eight thirty am on November fifteenth. That timeframe is perfect
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: lines up perfectly, yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: And also like it's a noticeable vehicle, right exactly.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Additional evidence showed that the Porco's home burglar alarm had
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: been deactivated at two fourteen am and the phone line
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: was cut at a round four fifty nine AM, suggesting
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a deliberate effort to stage a robbery. However, detectives quickly
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: saw through it. Nothing had act actually been stolen, the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: same with the cut screen on the window suggesting an
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: entry point, but nothing had been stolen. Even more dam damning,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Christopher was one of the few people who knew the
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: four digit code to disable the house alarm. His older
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: brother Jonathan testified that their relationship had been strained and
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: that Christopher was fully aware of his parents' life insurance
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: policies to New York State through a toll booth collectors
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: provided further confirmation. One toll operator near Rochester reported seeing
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: a yellow jeep at ten forty five pm, while another
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: at Exit twenty four in Albany saw the same speeding
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: jeep approaching the toll plaza before two am on November fifteenth.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: A neighbor also told investigators that he spotted a yellow
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: jeep in the porco's driveway before for a m the
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: picture was clear. Christopher had left Rochester the night before,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: used the hidden spare key, the very same one that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Peter knew was there even in his zombie like state,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to enter the house. He disabled the security alarm and
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: attacked his parents with an axe. Afterwards, he cleaned up,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: staged a fake burglary, cut the phone line, and drove
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: back to Rochester before morning. Investigators theorized that Christopher wore
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: medical scrubs during the attack, ones that he likely would
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: have gotten in working at the medical the pet medical facility,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: the vet veterinary clinic, or whatever you want to call it,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: and then dispose of them somewhere Afterwards, colleague testified that
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: he had experienced cleaning up after surgical procedures from this
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: facility as well, which further supported the theory on why
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: there was not much evidence left behind.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. Yeah, okay, so sorry, I'm sure you have
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: more to say, but I have like a million questions,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: but I'll let you carry on.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: We'll shoot if you got questions.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Well nope, I'm assuming they're going to be answered though. Like,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I'm just shocked here of why the mom changed her ways.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming she decided it wasn't worth it for her
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: kid to be going into jail forever. Or maybe he's
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: like threatening her that he'll come back and finish the job.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just like, what the hell is
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: going on here?
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe he didn't attack her, maybe she had brain damage
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: and doesn't remember.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm like, did he actually do it?
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the heck. Well, as far as
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: did he actually do it, Christopher's legal team and husband,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: which was a husband and wife duo, argued that despite
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: all the circumstantial evidence that was against him, and you
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: know what, it's true, it is all circumstantial evidence, they
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: had no physical proof of linking him to the crime.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Sure he wasn't where he said he was supposed to be.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Sure he was driving across the counties or cities or
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to say. Sure he was seen here
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and there and all over this place. Doesn't mean he
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: killed his parents, right, well, I guess not. There was
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: no fingerprints found on the acts, no DNA placed him
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: at the scene, there was no blood evidence tying him
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: to the murder. But as legal battle played out, it
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't the defense's argument that stole the show. It was
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Jones's heartbreaking devotion to her son. She stood by Christopher's
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: side throughout the trial, even walking arm in arm with
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: him into the courtroom. She even took the stand as
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a defense witness, telling jurors that she had no memory
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: of even implicating her son and that he could never
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: have done such a horrific thing. Joan acknowledged that Christopher's
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: financial misdeeds had caused strain, but she insisted their family
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: loved each other and wanted to mend their relationship. Her
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: loyalty went beyond these words. After Christopher's indictment in two
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: thousand and five, Joan put up a two hundred and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars for his bail, ensuring that he remained
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: free until trial. After closing arguments wrapped up on August second,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six, the jury deliberated for six days
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: before delivering their verdict on August eighth. Christopher was found
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: guilty and convicted of second degree murder for his father's
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: death and second degree attempted murder for the attack on
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: his mother. On December twelfth, two thousand and six, he
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to twenty five to life for each count,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: ensuring he would serve a minimum of fifty years in prison. Today,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Christopher Porko remains behind bars at Clinton Correctional Facility in
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Clinton County, New York. And that is a story of
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: the Porko family axe murder and the murder of Peter Porko.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, I don't even know what the hell the
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: thing my brain is just like right away, it's like,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: holy that complete asshole. I still sort of I think
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: he did it.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think he did it too, But I'm just like.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Shook to by the mom I am just like flabbergasted here.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: There was so much going through my brain. Yeah, huh okay. Well,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: also like I feel pretty confident that we're not having kids.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I do like cases like this because it's like, okay,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: like this, this is good, but also wow, I can't
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: I also can't imagine being the like am like the paramedic, yea,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: dealing with this shit like oh those people are just
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: like some of them. I just feel that's just a
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: hard job. And then also asking like that question or whatever,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: like was this your son? And then they nod, Oh,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I just cann't imagine, just like you're insides were just
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: like twist. I like, that's just so disturbing.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to say, I love, I absolutely
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: love when I do a case and you get so
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: hung up and flabbergasted, you're stumbling over your own words
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: and you're I just and that's how you sound at
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the end of it.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I do sound like that right now because
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: I'm just shocked because there is a little bit of
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: doubt potentially there is, but the mom, because the mom
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: completely changed her ways.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but here's the thing. She doesn't even remember implicating
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: her son. She doesn't remember saying yes, he did it,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: which leads me to believe, Okay, yeah, there's some residual
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: brain damage trauma.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: But then at the time it was so fresh, like
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: she would have she wouldn't have made that up, right
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: if it wasn't her son, I don't think correct.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: And now, even so, even if you want to make
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the argument, okay, if there's there's trauma and brain damage
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: preventing her from membering, well, then there could potentially be
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: trauma and brain damage prevent or convincing her that it was.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: So the argument goes both sides there. So let's just
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: say the witness testimony is out the fucking window. Okay, However,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: you have to consider all the circumstantial evidence leaving leading
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: up to it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well, because I just need to say too
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: though she could have she could have been misunderstood right,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: She wasn't able to communicate fully correct. It could have
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: been misunderstood that she was implicating her son.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Well, it was a yes or no, and they asked
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: was it a family member? She said yes? Was it
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: your oldest son Jonathan, No? Was it your youngest son
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Christopher Yes?
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I just yeah, I want to think that a kid
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: could not do couldn't do this. How could they do
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: this to their parents?
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Right? Their parents over money? Money? Well, I mean there's
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: there's a lot more emotional things at stake than just
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: the money, But it ties down to money that they
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: were arguing over.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Fucking money, Hey, yeah, money, how many things like so
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: many I feel like cases and just bad shit that happens.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: It's because of money.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Money sucks, Money do suck?
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Oh this world. I just don't like how it's so.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, money driven, money hungry. I mean, they
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: say money is the root of all.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Evil, right, So the evidence is basically that between that timespan,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: he wasn't accounted for his vehicles seen you know, was
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: it was seen in the driveway?
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: It was it was seen in the driveway.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Geez, Okay, it was seen in the fucking driveway. Okay.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And then they knew the code, they knew where the
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: spare the spare key was. He probably had a fucking key,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: to be honest.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: He may have. He may have used a spare key.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: But that's the thing. Not only was his vehicle seen
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: in the driveway, and he wasn't accounted for every time
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: his vehicle was seen and was accounted for leaving and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: returning to campus, for example, passing back through the toll
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: booths and in the driveway, all of it painted the
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: picture of leaving and driving back the exact timeframe. At
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: each point he was seen.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Hmm, so it was him. But oh the mom just
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: like has convinced herself that her son could just never
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: do this. I think so, which I mean, I don't
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: blame her.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to think that someone like that could
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: do something like that to you, right.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, like killed her husband. The dad like the
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: son's dad Like.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Huh, So he had the motivation for it. He was
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: not living the best life because I mean, hey, you
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: have people who are like, yeah, he's going on downwards, spile,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: drinking more and even threaten someone. His vehicle was unaccounted
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: for he was seen or his vehicle or vehicle matching
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: his very unique vehicle's description was accounted for in certain
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: areas at certain times. He lied to police officers, all
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: accumulating to a big old stepot of circumstantial evidence, which
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: was enough circumstantial evidence to put him behind bars. As
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the court confidently said, you are the one to have
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: committed this crime without us seeing any concrete evidence. So
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it's enough circumstantial evidence to say you did it.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I bet that his mom goes and visits him.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Probably I believe so too. My gosh, I have a
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: feeling his brother Jonathan has nothing to do.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: With her, probably just like the escalation there. I just
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: can't imagine being that angry at someone that he would
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: go into their home and literally, like, I don't know you,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: was an axe on them. He swung that ax. What
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: would it be like nineteen times? Was it sixteen for
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: the dad or something?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: And three for those mom sixteen for the father and
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: three for the mother.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: So like to swing that ax nineteen times at these
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: like two individuals that like raised you. Yeah, I don't know, okayes,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: he's something seriously.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Messed up there, Yeah, no kidding. Anyways, hopefully you guys
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: enjoy this show. If you have thoughts on whether Christopher
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: was the one to do this or not, I'm curious.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: I want to hear about it because it is circumstantial
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: evidence that he was convicted on. So if you think
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: there's another way that this could have actually played out, yeah,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: shoot us a message, shoot us an email. We've been
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: getting some emails recently, and messages, I mean we get
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: them every once in a while, but particularly lately, we've
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: had a lot of messages about people reaching out regarding
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: not even the content of our show, but just saying
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: some really nice things about how we've been there for
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: them and we've helped them through things, and we just
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: want to say that means a lot. So thank you
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: for everyone who's been reaching out like that. We're trying
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: to get back to each and every one of you,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: and we will if we haven't yet. So just yeah,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unreal to think that I don't know we've
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: even remotely impacted anyone's life, So that's really nice.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: It is. So Yeah, I just wanted to say at
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: the end here, thank you. It means a lot. If
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: you're interested in shooting us an email message, whether it's
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: a show or anything else, we have links in the
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: description where you can find all that information, whether it's Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, emails,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: it's all there. We have a website you can check
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: it all out. Links you name it, description of this show. Yeah,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I have to.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Say one more thing real quick. How the hell do
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: people listen to true crime as like a bedtime story
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: going to sleep? Because I was pretty pumped to go
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: to sleep, but now I'm like all riled up. I
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: don't know if I'll be able to just like snooze
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: right now. So, but people literally listen to this to
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: fall asleep, Well, yeah, that's incredible. How do they do that.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: As a kid? And stuff like didn't you ever listen
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: to like ghost stories before bed and stuff?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I did before bed. No, anyway, Shit,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: you just wrecked my sleep.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Well, I'm going to have a good sleep.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Hopefully you guys do too.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: And until next episode, stay Wicked.