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Transcript

White Chicks with Taylor Garron · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdelcast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Attention Bechdel cast listeners. We are going on tour.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And we know we've been on tour many times over
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the years. But guess what? This is a very, very,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: very special tour that can only happen one time because
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: it is our 10 year anniversary. Oh, my God.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: We are doing a 10 year.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Whoops.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: We didn't dismantle the patriarchy anniversary tour.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, we're so excited. And we are starting. We are
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: kicking it off. In the Northeast this October.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: With shows in New York City. Ever heard of it?
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: On October 12th. Baltimore, October 15th. Philadelphia, October 17th. State College,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: October 18th. Pittsburgh, October 19th. And Boston, October 21st. We
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: are really going to go big. And because it's so
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: close to Halloween, we would highly encourage you to dress
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: up as your favorite movie character. We certainly will be
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: doing so. And it's just going to be a big celebration.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I'm so damn excited. You can buy tickets at Linktree
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: slash Bechtelcast. All of our ticket links are listed there.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: We will see you there, Northeast, and see you rest
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of the U.S. and also Canada very soon.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: See you there.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: The Bechtelcast.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Making my way downtown. Walking fast. Faces pass and I'm homebound.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Is that one of your songs? One of my songs? Yeah.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Were you a Vanessa Carlton? Did they get white women correct?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, I see.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: For me? Certainly.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Certainly.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I love Vanessa Carlton.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I were to lie, I would say,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: oh my God, yes, totally. This was absolutely one of
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: my songs.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't. You were listening to what? Slipknot? Honestly,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in 2004, yeah.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: It was a bit of Slipknot. It was a bit of...
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I was into Nine Inch Nails at the time. I
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: was into Korn.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I forgot you were an alt teen. So cool.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: It was more that I was just influenced by my
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: older brother's music and I had not really established a
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: personality of my own yet.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: That is kind of an older brother vibe. Okay, that
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, I was a Vanessa Carlton kid. Also,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I vividly remember that that song and that music video
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: would play at our local Chuck E. Cheese when that
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: song came out. I don't know when... When Chuck was
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: on a break, when Chuck was taking five, they threw Vanessa.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I remember the music video so vividly. I saw it
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: 500 times against my will.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Or not 500. Every time I got a good report card,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I saw that music video against my will.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: That was your good report card treat? A trip to
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Chuck E.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Cheese?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Insisted. Insisted on going to the Rat Casino. Always have,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: always will. Nice. Welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. What is
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: it though, Jamie?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Well, it's so relevant to the conversation today, which is
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: actually kind of true. So it is a media metric
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: created by friend of the show, namesake of the show,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel. There's a lot of versions of the test.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: She originally created it as a one-off joke in her
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: comic collection, Dykes to Watch Out For. But it has
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: since been adapted to a more mainstream media metric. Our
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: version of the test requires that two people of a
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: other than a man for more than two relevant lines
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: of dialogue. Jumping off point. For discussion. We'll be talking
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: about all sorts of things today. We're kind of going
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: to be doing a dissertation today.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, my notes are copious.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Truly. I read so many more. There are so many
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: more academic papers on white chicks than you would think
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: is what I'll say. And I've read many of them
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and I'm thrilled to talk about it with our incredible guest.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Let's get her in here.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. She's a friend of the show and
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: she's a teacher at Abbott Elementary.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: It's Taylor Guerin. Hi, everyone.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Hey, how's it going?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Welcome. Welcome.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me on. This is a dream
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: come true.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: This episode has been a long time in the making. Years, truly.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: I think we were at a party sometime and we
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: talked about it or something, right?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Like three or four years ago.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And here we are.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: So we made it happen.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: And here we are.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Better late than never.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Truly. Truly. And we are indeed covering White Chicks today. 2004,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: directed by Keenan Ivory Wayans. This is very much a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Wayans production because Sean and Marlon Wayans are in the
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: main roles. They are the titular White Chicks. Taylor, what
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: is your history with this movie?
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: Okay, so I have an interesting one, and maybe everybody
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: says that, but there was a party at one of
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: my aunt's houses when I was it had to be,
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: I guess, 2004. So I was pretty young and all
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: the adults were like downstairs drinking and partying. And so
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: they put all of like the younger people upstairs. And I,
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: as a Cape Verdean person who was also raised Catholic,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: I have like 900 first cousins. It's just like, that's
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: how it goes. And so we were all piled into
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: this one room and the older cousins who were like
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: probably 15, 16, put on a movie for us. And
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: the movie just happened to be White Chicks.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: I don't remember, like, You remember the first time you
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: see movies that like change your life. You know what
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: I mean? Like the classics. You remember like seeing Star
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: Wars in the theater with your dad or like whatever.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: But this was special in a different way because there
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: are a lot of questions I had. I wasn't a
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: sheltered kid necessarily, but I was certainly like going to
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: church and like sex things were not something that I
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: was very privy to. Kind of drug things weren't really.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: And it was a coming of age moment for me,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: especially when my cousins during that one scene covered our eyes,
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: all of our eyes to the best of their ability.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: And of course, it was very, it was very sweet.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: And I get what they were trying to do. But like,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: you can't really cover a kid's eyes during a movie
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: and expect them in the in the big year of
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: 2004 to not figure out another way to go find
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: white chicks and watch that scene. And I did. Did
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: I understand it? Absolutely not. Not for a couple of years.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: If you're listening at home, um, we'll probably get to
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: that scene at some point.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, during, during Caitlin's famous recap, I'm sure we will. Um,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: so you saw it pretty soon after it came out. Uh,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: and then what's been your relationship with it since.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Since, uh, wow. I, I probably watch it like every
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: other year. It was maybe a once a year thing. Okay.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So this movie is a part of your life.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: It sure is. And I think that it was maybe like,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: I think I showed it to some people in college
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: and they were like, this is really offensive. And I
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: was like, yeah, that's the point. Um, now I kind
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: of watch it as like a touchstone of like what
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: we used to be able to kind of make and
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: get away with. Not that I want to make movies
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: that offend people, but it's like, you know, they were
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: just handing out money in back in the industry back
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: in the day, especially if you were away. And I
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: guess they were like, here's some money. That's, that's a,
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: it's a funny one-off joke. What if two black guys
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: played two white women? 2004, that's like the peak of comedy.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: People love that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: That is high concept comedy.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? So I think I watch
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: it more as just like a, wow, what if I
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: was born like 15 years, 20 years earlier and I
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: could have made that kind of bullshit and I could
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: be rich. Yeah.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: It is sort of a time capsule for that era.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: There's maybe a like, 15-year amount of time where this
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: movie can happen. 100%. 2004 is one of those years.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: And they found it.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: They did.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Jamie, what about you? What's your history with this movie?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: This movie, I had seen it in... This is one
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of the many movies we've covered that I saw in, like,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: chunks on TNT over a course of years. I don't
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: know if I've ever actually seen it all the way through,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: but this is definitely... I feel like that's true for
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: me with most, like... broad comedies of the 2000s that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I have seen were on TNT.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: This was definitely a TNT movie.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Huge. White Chicks got play on TNT. I think more
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: than any other Wayans Brothers movie I've seen, like even
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: more than Scary Movie. But yeah, I remember this movie
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: coming out. I guess I would pair it, not thematically,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: but I would pair it with Borat. in the pantheon
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: of movies that kids quoted a lot in middle school.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Even though I hadn't actually seen this movie, it was
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: impossible not to be aware of it. It was so successful.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I recognized most of the major set pieces from it.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: This might have been my first full viewing, but what
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I remember is, I think more than most, not to.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: But I've always been very, very sensitive to uncanny valley stuff.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: There's certain uncanny valley things that are just really challenging.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And it's specifically- The animals talking?
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: The animals with CGI mouths talking?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. 90s and 2000s talking animals that don't blink, but
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: their mouths move.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: Horrific.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Horrific.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: I didn't like the babies and baby geniuses.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Over that.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: I really didn't like that.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And this isn't that, but I do remember the contacts,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: the choice of contacts here. Oh, yeah. And I think
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: it's obviously intentional. It's a part of the bit. But
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: there are scenes in this movie where I'm like, they
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: could have brown eyes, like They could have brown eyes.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: White people have brown eyes. The craziest part of that, Jamie,
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: is that the masks are actually not that bad. No.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: They don't freak me out. The masks don't freak me out.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: They're pretty good for the time.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: It's just the eyes. It's the eyes, for sure. Then
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and now, the eyes have it. But this movie, I
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: will say, I think that this movie has a lot
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: going on. It has a lot going on, but I'm
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: really excited to talk about it because we've been talking
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: about a lot of movies in this kind of subcategory
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: this year. We talked about Tootsie. We talked about Mrs.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Doubtfire again. We've talked about a lot of male characters
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: disguising themselves as women for a plot-based reason.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Some Like It Hot, which we covered a few years prior.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: This is a very unique entry. into that and i
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: don't know i think that would i say it's one
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: of my favorites certainly not but it's doing more than
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: i expected caitlin what's your history with white chicks not
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: not the like you know not the not the royal
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: white chicks but the movie white chicks.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Um right my history with the movie white chicks is
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that i had never seen it before prepping for this
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: episode But I remember the marketing for this movie because
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: this movie was marketed to all hell.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: This movie had trailer. Yeah, it's the kind of movie
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you remember the trailer moments when you watch it. Yes.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And probably one of the reasons I didn't see it
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: because I was watching the scary movies, you know, I
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: at the time would have considered myself a fan of.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: the Wayne brothers movies, but it was the eyes. I,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: in the trailer, I was like, what the hell is
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: going on? The eyes were terrifying. I couldn't get past it.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I was very disturbed. So yeah, I just didn't see it.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Never got around to it until now. But I mean, this,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: this is a rich text. There's a lot to talk about.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't have many nice things to say
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: about this movie, but It's trying to do something.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: That's what I think. Yeah, it's a swing. It's a swing.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Well, why don't we take a quick break and then
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: we'll come back for the aforementioned recap.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: And we're back. Quick survey because I'm curious. Does everyone
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: have a favorite Wayans Brothers movie? I guess that's kind
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of broad because my favorite is not directed by a Wayans.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: What's your favorite?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Major Pain. Oh. I still haven't seen that one either.
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: I don't know if I've seen that one either.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I can't vouch for it, but I know that I've
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: seen it many times and I liked it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: I don't think that there are a lot of Wayans
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Brothers movies made before a certain year that I could
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: vouch for.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Yes. Strictly based on enjoyment.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: I'll be honest with you, White Chicks might be my
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: favorite one.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, biannually.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: It's not necessarily because I'm like, whoa, this changed cinema.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: I need to, you know, rewatch this masterpiece. But I
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: guess it just reminds me of a certain time in
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: my life.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Sure. You know?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: This is not a Wayans Brothers movie at all, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: it does star one of the Wayans Brothers, Marlon Wayans,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: who is also in this movie, which is the movie
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Requiem for a Dream.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: I totally forgot he was in that.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: He's in it. I've never seen that.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: It is so tonally different than probably everything else he's in.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: But you realize like, oh, he's got range.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Requiem for a Dream and Requiem. Like the pothead
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: guy in Scary Movie.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: And a white woman.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And a woman. Give this guy an Oscar.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: The three kinds of characters. I am. I mean, that
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: is just like something that never stops impressing the world,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: including me. I'm a part of the world. When a
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: comedian takes a dramatic turn and it works, people love
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: that shit. They love it.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: More power to them. Yeah.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: All right. Well, here's the story of. White Chicks.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to hear you describe.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: I can't wait.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: This is going to be a poem.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. We meet two brothers, Marcus and
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Kevin Copeland, played by real life brothers, Marlon and Sean Wayans, respectively.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Both are FBI agents who are working undercover. And we'll
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: talk about the racist caricatures they're doing at the very
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: beginning of the movie.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And sprinkled throughout.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. They are trying to bust a few drug dealers,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: but they go after the wrong guys and they mess
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: everything up. There's a whole, oh, is it ice cream?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Is it cocaine? And their FBI chief is pissed at
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: them for blowing this operation.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Kind of an incredible fight scene just, like, off the jump.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: It's pretty fun.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Like, top of the movie. Like, ice cream everywhere. It's
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: kind of fun.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: It is fun. Yeah, I feel like that was more
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: of a thing. Maybe I'm making shit up. But that
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: felt like more of a thing in, like, the 80s
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: through 2000s. Like, comedies with big action set pieces.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're like, okay, let's blow... A million dollars in
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: the first two and a half minutes?
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Just see.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Or you're graphing this fight scene.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: This movie makes so much more sense when you know
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: that it is basically a blank check movie off of
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the first two scary movies. They could have done... Literally anything.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And it is fascinating that they choose to do this.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: And they sure did.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, they had a $ 37 million budget, which doesn't
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: sound that much by today's standards. But for a comedy
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: in the early 2000s, that was a pretty sizable budget. Yeah.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so they mess up this drug bust and their
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: chief says that if they screw up again, they're fired.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So the stakes are high.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Marcus goes home. We meet his wife, Gina.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: And boy, is this a classic his wife character. We'll
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: get into it. She is nagging him.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: She leans all the way in, too.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: She is... Like, down to the outfit choices are fascinating.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: They heavily imply she has nothing to do in her
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: life but worry about where her husband is.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And assume that he's cheating on her 24-7.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: But he'd never cheat on her, babe.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: No.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: He's too busy impersonating Paris Hilton.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: So we meet her. She'll come back later on. But
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: then we cut to Marcus and Kevin... going into the
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: FBI office, there's a kidnapper on the loose and the
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: FBI believes this kidnapper's next victims are the Wilson sisters,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Brittany and Tiffany, socialites, daughters of some rich guy who
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: owns a cruise line, Paris Hilton types, like you said, Jamie.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's like so pulled because I believe
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: like The Simple Life was airing when this.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Movie came out. Topical in a big way. Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: So the FBI is going to keep their eye on
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: these sisters to make sure they're safe and also try
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: to catch the kidnapper. So I don't know if it's
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: like they're going to like just kind of hover over them,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: using them as bait to try to lure in the kidnapper.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: It's something like that.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to believe. And I did not in
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: all of the research that I did, I did not
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: look into like if there are deleted scenes. There has
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to be a scene deleted here because they jumped to
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the conclusion that they have no choice but to do this. Like,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: it's not even a conversation. He's like, I know what
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: we have to do. Josh, he just shows up and then, yeah.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some story logic there. questions we could have.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: I kind of think that they probably just weren't expecting
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: their audience to really ask that many questions. And you
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: know what? That's the first time I've ever thought about it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: So they were maybe great.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Well, there you go.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: So I come to this place to ask these questions.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: But also it's like, yeah, if you're sitting in the theater,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: you're just kind of like TikTok, where are the white chicks?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Anything that happens, you're like, exactly.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: It's so true.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But there are so many fun, like little story
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: logic things where they're like, okay, stay in this hotel
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: all weekend. And The girls are just like, yeah, for sure.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Totally makes sense.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: So the FBI is trying to catch this kidnapper. The
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: prime suspect is this guy named Ted Burton. a previous
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: associate of rich guy Wilson, but he lost his fortune.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And so they think that this guy wants revenge or something. Again,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: it's a little foggy, but Marcus and Kevin are assigned
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: to the case and they go and pick up the
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Wilson sisters who are these blonde haired, blue eyed, like
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: bimbo types, parentheses pejorative, And they are headed to the
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Hamptons for this big weekend that they're super excited for.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's this huge deal, but on the way there's this
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: whole mishap with one of the sisters' dogs and they
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: get into a minor car accident and each of the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: sisters gets a small scratch on their face and they
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: freak out. They're like, we can't go to the Hamptons
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: looking like this. But for reasons, the FBI needs them
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: to go to the Hamptons that weekend.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: To lure the kidnapper.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: And I do appreciate, I forget which brother says this, but.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: he's like this weekend is so important to them I'm
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: like wow what wild empathy for them I think that's
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: the closest we get to reasoning and I kind of
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: love that where he's like no these girls need to
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: impress people at the Hamptons we have no choice we
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: have to become white chicks right now It's great.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: I also do think low-key that if they went back
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: to their chief and they were like, hey, we got
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: into an accident now. We like fucked us all up.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: Maybe they would be fired.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Again, the stakes are high.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: The stakes are high for them.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: So Marcus and Kevin, like you said, Jamie, decide to
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: pretend to be these two sisters and go to the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Hamptons in their place. And a team of makeup artists
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and stylists and stuff like that show up to turn
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: these two black men into two white chicks. There's wigs, makeup,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: fake boobs, blue eye contacts that are absolutely terrifying, body
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: paint to lighten their skin. The whole works. And the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: result is such that you really have to suspend your
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: disbelief that anyone else, any other character in the entire
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: movie would believe. mistake them yeah which is like part
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: of the part of the white.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Chicks of it all like sure that's the fun yeah.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah The fact that everyone at the white supremacy lobotomy
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: club is like, wow, good to see you. It's fun.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Some of them do get a little suspicious, but it's
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: easily brushed away, explained away.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Because they're often chalking it up to cosmetic procedures that
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: these Wilson sisters say that they've gotten.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: The knee lengthening.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, which is pretty funny. That's the Pedro Pascal surgery from... Materialists.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. It's the legs, isn't it? One
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: of the most iconic lines of the 2020s.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Kevin and Marcus arrive in....
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: The Hamptons as Brittany and Tiffany. Although I don't, I
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: forget which brother is supposed to be which sister, but
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think it matters.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Kevin's Brittany, Marcus's Tiffany.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Feel free to forget that.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I certainly will. Although I might've clarified it later in
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: my notes. We'll find out. Anyway, they arrive in the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Hamptons and now they're suddenly being hit on by a
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: bunch of men, which they do not appreciate, but also
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: because they are perceived as white and They realize that
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: they can flex that privilege, and so they do the
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: whole Karen, like, let me speak to your manager thing
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: as they're checking into the hotel.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Those bits I thought were very fun is when they're
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: at the hotel desk and he is writing the letter
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: where he's like.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Dear Mr. Royal Hampton, I am a white.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Woman in America.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: It's a great joke.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: It's truly like, it's one of my vocal stems. I
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: say it to myself all the time.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: When this movie hits, it hits.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: It sure does. Yeah.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I believe there's also a Shrek reference in this scene,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: There is. Shrek Mania was at an all-time high. It
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: was 2004. It is wild to me. I hate that
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I can remember I have like Master of Disguise recall
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: like this. But how quickly, like Master of Disguise came
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: out the year after Shrek and their Shrek references. We
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: really cannot overstate the cultural impact of that.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: It was moving fast.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Immediate.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: I do remember the Shrek line, if you need that.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: That was something that I reflected upon when I was
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: rewatching this movie to come on this podcast, was that
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: I know every line in the movie.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I believe it.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I asked the doctor to make me look like Gwyneth Paltrow,
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: and the doctor made me look like fucking Shrek.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Which, okay, another Shrek parallel here. I couldn't help but
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: think that when these guys are in disguise as the
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: white chicks and they're doing like a falsetto voice, they
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: sound like Gingy. From Shrek.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Wow. To me. I wonder if Gingy was on the
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: vision board.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I hope so.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: I hope they made a vision board.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I hope there was a vision board.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: As part of transforming into white women, I hope that
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: they made a vision board.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, so they check into the hotel in the Hamptons
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: for this big weekend. They are greeted by friends of
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the Wilson sisters. These are three white women named Karen, Lisa,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and Tori. who don't seem to notice that these are
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: not visibly the sisters but again they're like oh you
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: got collagen you you got taller via knee surgery yeah
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: etc and then they all go to a reception thing
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: at the hotel hosted by a rich guy named warren
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: vandergeld played by john herd aka the dad from home alone.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Oh wow didn't yeah didn't clock that wow that's him.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: His daughters are also there. This is Megan and Heather Vandergeld,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: who are the Wilson sisters' sworn enemies.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: They're very much bully.jpg type characters.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Yes. And these two sets of sisters do a bunch
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: of yo mama jokes at each other. Then there's an
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: extended joke. I think this is Tiffany has to take
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: an enormous dump because Marcus. Oh, yeah, it is Marcus
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: who is Tiffany. Marcus is lactose intolerant and he was
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: eating a bunch of quiche quiches. With a bunch of
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: cheese in them. Say what you.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Will about the protracted shit joke. They set it up.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: They sure do.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: It's not for no reason. He's lactose intolerant.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Chekhov's lactose intolerance.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: So while that's happening, the other sister, Brittany, who again,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: this is Kevin, is chatting up a news anchor or reporter.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I forget her job exactly, but her name is Denise Porter.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Kevin thinks she is cute. Also, Terry Crews is there.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: His character is a basketball star and he takes an
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: interest in Tiffany and starts sexually harassing her. We'll talk
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: more about that. But then the white chicks and their friends, Karen, Lisa,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: and Tori, Leave to go shopping for outfits for an
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: event that night, which the thing that women be. Women
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: be shopping, number one.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: They do be shopping.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Number two, there's a moment in this scene that is
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: also very similar to a moment in Titanic, which... Titanic
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: is referenced later in the movie, so we have a
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Shrek reference and a Titanic reference.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: So in many ways, we have to give this movie
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: perfect marks.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: That's so true.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And we could even end the episode now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: And it's been really great to be here.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you so much.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you guys so much.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: No, but there's a scene where, okay, so there's some
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: event later that night, some big charity auction dinner, and
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: the friends are like, Brittany, Tiffany, what are you wearing?
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: And the sisters look down at their outfits and they're like,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know this. Similar to how Jack Dawson in
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Titanic says, I don't know, I guess I'll wear this
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: to dinner. And then Kathy Bates says, silly boy, you
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: can't do that. Similar thing happens in this movie. And
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: so the friends take the Wilson sisters shopping. Also, there's
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: a On the way to the mall or whatever, there's
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a scene where Brittany and Tiffany, they're singing along to
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a hip hop song and they say the N word.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: And the other three white women are like, oh, yeah,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: we can do it, too.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: So then I will say, OK, I got a lot
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: to say about this scene. We'll talk more about it later.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: But at first, the white women are like, no, you
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: can't say that. And the white chicks, we'll refer to
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: them white woman and white chicks because it's the title.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: But the white chicks are like, well, no one's around.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: And then the white woman immediately concede their point and
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: say the N-word no less than five times. Busy Phillips,
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: we have to talk because that was crazy. But it
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: was 2004. It was a different time. Yeah.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: It really does kind of just slide right out, doesn't it?
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: No less than five times. It's like they said it
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: all the time, which makes me be a little suspicious.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: You really have to question it. They go shopping. There's
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: this whole trying to fit into clothes hijinks montage kind
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: of thing.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the academic pieces I read for this
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: does sort of break down by trope. Like this subgenre
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: that we were talking about at the beginning, like there's
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: always kind of like five or six kinds of scenes
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: or scenarios that these characters end up in. And this
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: movie does all of it. And I think because we
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: just watched. Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire, it's like extra on
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: my mind of like, Oh, there it is. There it is.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: There it is.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: The dressing room is one of, is one of the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: scenes that happens in, in this movie.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I clocked that as well.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Then we cut to the charity auction event where they
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: are auctioning off young women to whatever rich guys want
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: to bid on them. And this includes one of the
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: white chicks, Tiffany and, Terry Crews, quote unquote, buys her.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: And so he will be taking her on a date
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: later on. And again, use of pronouns in this discussion
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: is going to be hard because these are cis men
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: disguising themselves as, again, white chicks. So I guess when
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: we're talking about them presenting as white chicks, I'll use
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the she, her pronouns, knowing full well that these are
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: cis men in disguise.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's complicated. The whole thing. Yeah.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Anyway, that night, Brittany slash Kevin and Tiffany slash Marcus
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: go to their hotel room and they de-white chick themselves.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: But then the three white women knock on their door
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: for a slumber party. So they have to white chick
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: themselves up again. And they have a little chat and
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: a little slumber party. A little later, two men come
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: into the room. One of the white chicks thinks that
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: these are the men who were there to kidnap the
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Wilson sisters. So they get beat up. But it turns
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: out that they're strippers. And we're laughing. Or we're supposed
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: Never seen that before.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: This is, yeah, one of the classic tropes of movies
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: like this where the men in disguise realize that women
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: might not be hysterical. They might just seem hysterical. But
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: perhaps they contain more. But they're still hysterical.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: For sure.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: But maybe there's reasoning behind it. Mm-hmm.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: So the next day, all of the gals go to
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: the beach. Kevin takes off his white chick getup to
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: approach Denise, the reporter that he's had his eye on.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: And he asks her out for a date that night.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: He's pretending to be Terry Crews' character. What's his name? Latrell,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Which is occurring to me now. It's like, she's a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: journalist and she didn't... All right.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know him.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Seems like Terry Crews' character is famous, right?
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: Well, also, no one in this world recognizes that the
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Wayans brothers are men.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: That's true.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: This is kind of like a Shyamalan, like the Hamptons'
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: face blindness. Anyone in the Hamptons are face blind.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: Everyone in the Hamptons at this point got LASIK surgery,
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: and they were part of the 2% to 5% that
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: it goes poorly for.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, so Kevin, looking like himself but pretending to be
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: the pro ball player who is like Terry Crews' character's
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: real identity, takes Denise out on a date. He goes
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: to Terry Crews' character's house. It goes horribly wrong for
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: a while. There's lots of hijinks. But then eventually.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It's a Titanic reference.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: But it works out.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: That's where the Titanic reference is. And then eventually they're vibing.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: And she tells him some information... about Ted Burton, the
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: suspect in this kidnapping case that the brothers are working on.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: And what they thought was his motive for kidnapping people
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't end up being true. Denise reveals this. So maybe
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: he's not the kidnapper after all, but who is?
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: And honestly, the answer, I couldn't care less. I'm like,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: bring back the white chicks. I don't care.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we're about to see a white chick because
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: while that date is happening, Terry Crews has taken Tiffany
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: on a date. And Tiffany, Marcus as Tiffany, is trying
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: to be as unappealing as possible, like eating a bunch
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: of messy, stinky food, having body hair, farting. But Terry
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Crews loves all of it. Mm-hmm. Then everyone convenes at
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: a dance club later that night. There's a scene where
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: there's a dance-off between the Vandergeld sisters and their friends.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. The most 2004 dance-off of all time.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: It's so bad. It's, like, really, really upsetting.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: It's wild. I had to– I watched it. I paused it.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I called Grant into the room and teared into it.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: I also like, why is it a Run DMC song? Like,
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: it's just so.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: It's so bizarre. I kind of love it.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: So what transpires here is Karen, Lisa, and Tori are
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: dancing against the Vandergeld sisters and the white women, the
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: friends of the Wilson sisters, they lose and they're humiliated until...
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: tiffany and britney join in and they start break dancing.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Big trailer moment i vividly remember the break dancing in
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the trailer.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Yes and they hand the vandergeld sisters asses to them
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: and this doesn't it says no bearing on the plot
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: but that's okay then we cut to Karen drunkenly letting
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: it slip that Warren Vandergeld and his family are not
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: actually rich, or at least aren't anymore. In fact, they're broke.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: So Marcus and Kevin are like, hmm, that's interesting. The
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: next day, Marcus's wife Gina, who still thinks that Marcus
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: is cheating on her, shows up at the hotel in
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: the Hamptons and says, catches Marcus with another woman, a.k.a. Brittany, a.k.a. Kevin.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So Gina storms out. This scene ends on a very
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: homophobic slash transphobic button.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Another hallmark of this genre, unfortunately. For sure. And Gina
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: also immediately suffering from bad LASIK the moment she arrives.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course. Now, meanwhile, the real LASIK Tiffany and
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Brittany Wilson see photos of themselves on page six, or
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: rather photos of their imposters. So they decide to go
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: to the Hamptons to confront them, I guess, or set
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: the record straight.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I did laugh at the part where they're like, We've
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: been cloned! That was pretty funny. So the real Wilson
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: sisters head to the Hamptons, but they are apprehended by
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: a couple of FBI agents, colleagues of the Copeland brothers
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: who we've seen previously, because they think that these sisters
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: are frauds and that the ones that Marcus and Kevin
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: are pretending to be are the real Wilson sisters. There
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: is a scene where the real sisters are stripped down
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: because like the FBI agents are trying to prove that
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: they're not quote unquote real women.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: And that scene is a nightmare from like five different angles.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah. There's layers to how truly bad it is.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But this makes the FBI agents and the chiefs. realize
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: that the other Wilson sisters who are already in the
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Hamptons are actually Marcus and Kevin posing as the sisters.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: So the chief fires the Copeland brothers, but they decide
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to continue working the case anyway, especially because the FBI
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: is going after the wrong guy. They still think Ted
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Burton is the kidnapper. But the real kidnappers are Warren
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Vandergeld and then some other guy who.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: You're just like, huh? Like some frat bro who was
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: established like an hour ago. You're like, all right, whatever.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Movie's got to end sometime. Yeah.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: So Kevin and Marcus become white chicks again. They head
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: to a fashion show to.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I guess they're going to try to catch Warren Vandergeld. Again,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I've kind of lost the plot at this point. But
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: they end up on the catwalk as the Wilson sisters.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: And so do the real Wilson sisters. So hijinks ensue.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: All this wacky stuff happens. The Vandergeld sisters end up
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: with red paint spilled all over them because they were
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: going to pull, like, a carry at prom. A carry? Stunt,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: but it backfires and they get the paint poured on them.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Who knows? But as all of this is happening, the
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: bad guys kidnap the real Brittany and Tiffany Wilson. So
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Marcus and Kevin still in disguise. go after them. There's
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: a bunch of chaos. And they eventually expose Vandergeld as
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the kidnapper. And then finally, Marcus and Kevin take off
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: their white chick disguises. And a bunch of people are like,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: what in the hell? Such as Terry Crews, Denise, Gina,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: the three white woman friends. Everyone is like, I had
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: no idea that the people I've been looking at this
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: whole time were not white women. And then Kevin and
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Marcus's boss rehires them, so their jobs are saved. Kevin,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: as his real self, asks out Denise, and she's like,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: hubba hubba.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Denise, we need to have a talk, Denise. Oh, my God.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: She's like, none of this bothered me. Let's go out.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Poor Denise.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yes. And then Marcus apologizes to his wife, Gina.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: What?
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Denise's apology? I know. Fans of Denise want to know.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Truly. But Marcus does apologize at least to Gina for
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: not paying enough attention to her or not appreciating her enough.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: And then the movie ends with the three white women
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: approaching the brothers to be like, we liked the Wilson
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: sisters so much more when they were you, so let's
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: all go shopping sometime.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And they're like, yes, we're definitely going to hang out.
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: We come from the same world. We have a lot
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: in common.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: So that's the movie.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: And we're back.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: And we're back. Taylor, is there anywhere you want to
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: jump off? No pressure.
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: Where do we even begin? Where do we even begin?
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to be like, should I go chronologically? Should
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: I go macro to micro? Because I got a couple.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Which works better for y'all? A guest choice.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: It's really up to you, yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy. Okay. I'll just pick my few highlights that
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: I got, and we can maybe jump off from there.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: I think that kind of off the bat... Like they're like, okay,
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: two black men and they work for the FBI. Yes.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? They're like, okay, so they're cops,
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: but like advanced cops, advanced cops. And not only are
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: they black men who are also cops, they're also incompetent.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: So add that to the list. They really suck and
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: they're like about to lose their jobs. And their kind
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: of enemies in the system of the FBI are their boss,
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: who is also a black man, but who is confident,
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: but he's older. And also they're two like, I don't
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: know if they're partners, but I guess it's like two
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: other partners who are a white man and a Latino man.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: I think one of my main theses is that it's like,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: you can tell that like black people had a big
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: hand in this movie being made. And there are lots
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: of like little Easter eggs throughout the whole movie that
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: indicate that. And then there's one main one where one
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: major detractor from that where it's like, why did you
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: let Busy Phillips say the N word five times? But
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: I digress. I guess it's like when I, I mean,
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: not when I first saw it because I was a child,
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: but like when I just did this rewatch of it,
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, there's like some, there are like racial
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: aspects being involved in this movie and not in the
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: obvious ways, like the ways that Terry Crews is very
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: clearly searching for a white woman and doesn't have any
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: interest in dating anyone else besides a white woman.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I want to talk more about him, but we'll get there.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: We can do it right now. We can do it
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Well, that was one of the things that sort of
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: struck me. And this is not the first time we
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: have seen this, which is humor that is punching down
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: toward a racially marginalized person by another racially marginalized person,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: whether it's another character in the movie or the screenwriter
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: writing the jokes or whatever. Because I remember a conversation
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: we had on the 40-year-old virgin episode.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: It really is all these 2000s movies. Yeah.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Where in that movie, one of the running bits is
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: two non-white characters are being super racist toward each other
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and making racist jokes toward each other. And that is
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: always presented as like, ha ha ha, isn't it so
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: funny that these non-white characters are are being racist. See,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: not just white people are racist. It's also people of
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: color can be racist to each other too.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: Which kind of is, I mean, it's in the first
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: scene of this movie. You mentioned it where it's just like, okay,
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: two things. Macro, they must have had a wild makeup budget,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: a wild makeup costuming budget because they are also in
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: white chick style, like wigs, makeup, masks to play two
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: older Latino men running a bodega when they.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: For characters who never come back. Yeah, I feel like
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: they're playing into a bunch of different... It's kind of
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: like a charcuterie of cultural tropes that they're playing into
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: in that opening. I don't even know what they're going for.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Because I... And it's so weird. This is such a
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: hard conversation to have because when a character is doing
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: a racist caricature of someone else, me as the audience
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: receiving this is like... Because I thought they were doing
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: caricatures of Indian men based on the way they were
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: styled But one of them is speaking Spanish. So I
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: was like, what is happening here? Not to say that
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Indian people can't speak Spanish, obviously.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: No, but he's speaking with like a pretty offensive, like,
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: I speak English as a second language and Spanish as
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: a first accent. And also, another thing to note is
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: that they did not even give that man lines to
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: speak in actual Spanish. Not that they couldn't find somebody,
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: but he literally sings La Bamba as one of the lines.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: He sings Guantanamera as like one of the lines. It's like,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: He's speaking Spanish, but he's speaking it in like lines
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: from famous songs that are in Spanish that people know.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: Or I'm like, couldn't they have just written him some lines?
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Anything.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: All very offensive.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: For sure. So, oh my God, there's so much to unpack.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: So to go back to the 40-year-old virgin thing, that
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: was a thing where, and the difference here is that
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: that movie was written and directed by white people. So
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: the discussion we had there was, white people presenting, people
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: of color being racist toward each other as if to say,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: It's very like, everybody does it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Everybody can be racist.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like it was a very prominent sort of
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: like thing you would hear a lot during that time period.
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like the South Park, the South Park motto. Like,
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: we're not racist. We hate everybody.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: We hate everybody equally.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: But this movie is written and directed by black men. So,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: and we have all of these examples of characters of
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: color being racist to each other or doing these racist caricatures,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: including the way that the Terry Crews character is presented
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: in the sense that all of these harmful stereotypes about
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: black people and about black men specifically are being deployed
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: here in the sense that like black men are sexually aggressive.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: They have huge penises. They love white women and, We
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: see him try to drug a woman's drink, like all
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: of these disgusting things presented as a joke without commentary.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And it's it's I had a hard time with this
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: character because I I'm curious what you both think. Like,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I felt like what they were. kind of signaling with
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: his character is like, this is the like, quote unquote,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: wrong kind of black man.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Like, and that the FBI agents, the brothers are the
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: right kind of black man. But the way that they
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: do that is by strictly presenting Terry Crews in this
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: very like, tropey with a lot of specificity too. Like
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: the way that, um, I forget which, uh, white chick
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: that maybe Tiffany, I don't remember one of them. Um,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: But she is making King Kong references. There's a lot
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: of specificity in the way that those tropes... The tropes
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: are very, very, very intentional. And like you're saying, Caitlin,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: not commented on. And they also give Terry Crews at
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the end... And I want to talk further into the
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: episode how this movie is in conversation with a bunch
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of movies with similar premises. But they sort of give
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Terry Crews... the nobody's perfect line.
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I was going to say from, yeah.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: From some like it hot.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: But it's, it's flipped so that he is not upset
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: that he was a man, but that he was black. Right. Like,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: so it's just like, there's, I honestly don't even know
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: how to talk about that character. There's so much going on.
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: And let's not forget the extremely charming line that is
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: not only super racially offensive. It's also super ableist. Uh,
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: once you go black, you are going to need a wheelchair.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: And they say it more than once.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Followed by a woman in a wheelchair
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: who presumably recently had sex with that Terry Crews character
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: and then is like shoved out of the frame in
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: a like violent.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: She enters the frame. She says, hi, Latrell. And then
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: somebody shoves her off. They were like, how can we
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: make this so bad?
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: And that is, if I'm remembering correctly, the only disabled
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: character we see the entire movie. Yes. Which again is
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: like not shocking to me for a broad comedy coming
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: out this particular year, but it's like all, all of
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: the things that you would find in a very broad
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: 2004 movie are present here.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: The Terry Crews character, like I think that a lot
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: of people like only kind of remember the Vanessa Carlton bit,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: which is, which is a fun, which is fine.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: It's maybe like the most harmless scene in the entire
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: movie is just him singing that song.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Also maybe one of the most iconic like that sure
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: yes for sure yeah and that's because of Terry like
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Terry Crews is is selling it sure in in that scene.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah I think that I had a bunch of um
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: cases in this movie of some jokes that worked for
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: me because they were doing something that like really no
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: other movie like this does, which is like commenting very
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: explicitly on race and class, which most movies that, I mean,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: if we're talking about, uh, it's, it's mostly white guys
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: who are in, I guess, drag, but it's also, that
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: depends on how you define drag. but they're in drag
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: for most of the movie kind of only for pretty
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: selfish reasons and the point like I think especially Tootsie
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: a movie I just like cannot stand is like the
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: worst version of it where it happens in a world
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: where white men in their 40s can't get acting jobs.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: And you know who can? White women in their 50s.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: You know, just like this world that doesn't exist. And like,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: I do appreciate, I think in the context of other
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: movies like this, it's certainly not as good as Some
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Like It Hot, which I think is still kind of
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: like the uncontested best version of this premise. But I
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: think it's at least trying to, like some of the
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: jokes hit because they're doing more than this premise would
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: normally do. And I think it also makes all the
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: same mistakes in terms of homophobia, in terms of transphobia,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and in terms of misogyny that all of those movies
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: also do. So it's tricky. I'm not trying to hand
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: it to white chicks necessarily, but I do think that
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: it is very unique because most of these other movies
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, like Mrs. Doubtfire, like Some Like It Hot,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: like Tootsie, are not really attempting to comment on, certainly
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: not race, And usually not class either.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah. There's a, there's a scene where they're first showing
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: up at the hotel and they are realizing, like you mentioned, Caitlin,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: that not only are they like, oh shit, we're men
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: and we're dressed as women. So we have to like
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: act accordingly. Like if a man is hitting on us,
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: we can't use our man voices. We have to like
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: sound like women. And also the next, like the very
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: next thing that happens is that the other FBI agents,
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: they're like enemies come up to them and ask, you know, like, oh, hi,
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: welcome to the hotel. Like we're here to help you.
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: And they immediately realize that they can mistreat those other
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: FBI agents. So I don't know if it's Tiffany or Brittany, but...
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: hands her chihuahua in a little bag to the smaller
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: of the FBI agents and is like, yeah, can you
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: clean up her bag? She just pooped everywhere. Thank you,
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: Rico Suave, or something like that, which is like, okay,
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: so now this is a black man dressed as a
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: white woman realizing they can use their white woman-ness to
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: be a little racist and classist toward these FBI agents
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: who they see as below them, but they're also... black
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: men dressed as white women doing that you know it's
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: like it is a little kind of it's like subversive
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: in a way that i don't think they meant it
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: to be uh yeah.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Because they're when they're dressed as the white women the
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: white chicks they're modeling their behavior from the two actual
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: real rich white women who when marcus and kevin approached
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: them to pick them up for the first time the
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: sisters are like, ooh, get away from us. We already
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: donated to.
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: We already donated, yeah, to the United Negro College Fund,
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: I actually think is the specific reference they make, which
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: is like, that's another little sprinkle that this was made
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: by Black people because there's absolutely no way that any
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: random white woman on the street would have known what
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: the organization is.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Right, and certainly not have donated to it.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: So I don't even mind, I guess, when them posing
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: as the rich white women I mean, I mind it
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: in the grand scheme of things, but in the context
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: of this, when they are being horrible and racist... It's
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: like commentary.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: It's commentary.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's commentary on the way rich white women often behave.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: It is so joke to joke in this movie, though,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: because it's like other times, like in the opening sequence,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: they're just being racist. Yeah, for sure. They're just being racist. Yeah,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: but like there are certain scenes where it's like they're...
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: In the space of the same scene, which is why
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, rich text, rich text. What do you
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: do with it? In the space of the same scene,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: they're both kind of like horrified by being treated like women.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Like objectified by men.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: But they're also kind of experiencing this fantasy scenario of
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: experiencing white privilege. And so it's like always multiple, like
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: five different things going on. Some of it is like interesting.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Some of it sucks because. And it's all.
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: A lot of it sucks.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of it sucks. But it's like, there's really
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: not another movie like it. I think that's what I
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: just kept having to be like, there is only one
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: White Chicks.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: There truly is not.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Well, that was my big thesis, is that there are
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: so many opportunities to comment on men experiencing misogyny for
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: the first time, because they're being perceived as women, and
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: them experiencing the privilege of being white for the first time.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: And the movie does like a little bit of each thing.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: And then kind of drops it.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Pretty much drops it.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: And kind of squanders the opportunities.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is like, I feel like
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: another big thing I look out for with movies that
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: have this premise are how are the women that surround
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: these characters, like the characters in drag, how are they
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: characterized and, Are we getting an inner life or are
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: we not? And in this, I think they probably thought
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: they were giving characters an inner life, but they definitely weren't.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: They really thought they were doing something with that sleepover scene,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I think. They really did.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Wait, okay.
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: Can we talk about the sleepover scene really quickly?
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: So that was the scene that I was talking about
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: at the top of this episode.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: Where, yeah, my eyes were covered, but only for one part.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: The stripper scene wasn't really a problem, I guess, because
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: they were just like getting beat up. But there was
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: a scene that I think was cut from some DVD
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: versions of this movie or maybe some like definitely the
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: TV version. But they all get dildos.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, I did not see that. I did not see that.
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: You didn't see it. Okay. They all get dildos out
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: and do kind of like a, oh, like show us
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: how you do your like, you know, how you like
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: deep throat. And they ask one of the men who
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: was dressed as the white chicks. And he obviously doesn't
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: know what to do with it. So it's actually, it's
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: like a funny scene now that I've watched it because
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: he like wiggles it in his face and is like,
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: you know, it's like, it's very childish and like, you know,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: teenage boy. Sure. But. I was wondering if you guys saw.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: That scene because- No, I didn't know that existed.
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: They did cut it from a lot. And especially, it
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: certainly was not in the TNT made for TV version.
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, if you get a chance,
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: go see if you can find it, but it's not.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: Don't do that. Don't do that.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I'm running. Wait, I need to go.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: We have to do it for our job. But no,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: whatever version is on Netflix, that scene is not in
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: the Netflix version.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Did not make the cut.
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, in the original one. In the original one, it's
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: on there. And, you know, I mean, more power to
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: my cousins for- knowing that I probably shouldn't have been
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: exposed to that at that time.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: But to your point, Jamie, that slumber party scene, there's
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: a moment where the Busy Phillips character, is her name Karen?
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: I got them all confused.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I honestly was just like, Busy Phillips. Busy Phillips.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: She's lamenting about how a man that she likes isn't
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: giving her the respect she feels she deserves and how
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: she wishes how men... could trade places with women just
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: to see what women have to put up with. And
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Kevin and Marcus, as Brittany and Tiffany, are like, huh,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: that's interesting. And then there are a couple other moments
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: that you were alluding to, Jamie, that are staples of
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: this this premise of like men going in disguise as women,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: they always realize how uncomfortable women's clothing is. There's often
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: not a lot of commentary beyond that as far as like, well,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: why it is often designed to be uncomfortable. because it's
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: appealing to the male gaze with high heels and constrictive, form-fitting,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: super tight clothing and all that kind of stuff. So
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: it's more just noticing a thing and then presenting it
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: rather than examining it more closely, which is almost always
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: what happens when men try to make movies about women.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Well, and in this one, they had an op... It
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: was a miss. It was a close miss. Mm-hmm. I
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: don't know why I'm rooting for the white chick like this.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: But it was a close miss. I was like, oh, guys,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: so close. Where they're in the... Again, I don't know
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: which white chick, but they're in the dressing room. And
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: one of the white chicks... And every woman in this
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: movie is hysterical, essentially. With the exception of the journalist.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: The thing with her is the fact that she's a
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: journalist doesn't matter. Anyways, every woman is hysterical. And there's
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: one of the white women... there's a long kind of
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: leering shot of her body. And then the joke is
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: that she hates her body. She thinks that she quote
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: unquote looks fat. She like is disgusted with herself. She's
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: pointing out everything she thinks is wrong with her. And
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: then that's just sort of the whole joke. And again,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, there's, there's an opportunity that kind of
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: fails to go anywhere. It's like, they're, they're presenting like,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know, they're, they're showing things that are I
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: don't want to say real, but like, you know, women
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: are conditioned to hate their own bodies. And like this
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: is 2004. Women were socially conditioned to be very, very
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: thin at that time.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: They also should, like you said, Jamie, they like show
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: this long shot of her body and she has like
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: a quote unquote normal body by 2004 standards even. Like
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: she's like objectively thin.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: And I think they actually do that shot of her.
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: to like iterate that she is thin but that she's
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: so hysterical as like a woman that she thinks she's
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: so fat and like makes all these own comments about
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: her body which is like like you said very near
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: miss you know like yeah you're right there if we had.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Just wondered why a woman would think that about herself.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Right because there there are a lot of people who
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: are thin who have body dysmorphia and that often leads
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: to an eating disorder and unfortunately.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Like I think that's like a relevant thing to be
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: talking about in the year 2026. For sure.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: Circled back around.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: ED culture is back. It is 2004 again in so
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: many ways.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. And then there's another particularly hysterical character
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: in Gina, Marcus's wife.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: We already talked about a little bit, but she is
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: obsessed with the idea that her husband is cheating on
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: her and she is presented in the most unreasonable way imaginable,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: where there is no way he could be cheating on
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: her with the timeline.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: It's like dated even for 2004.
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: It really is.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: There's not even a suggestion that she has.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: Any reason to suspect. Oh, yeah. Also, yeah. Anything else
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: going on in her day.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: She's just calling him all day and calling the station.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: Calling his boss.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Also, when she does eventually pull up to, like,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: the party that they're, the hotel that they're at, she's wearing, like,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: a bonnet. She has, like, sloppy pajamas on. She's wearing, like, slippers,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: I think, which is, like, I mean, something to be
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: said about, like, them trying to show a class difference,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: of course, between, like, all these fancy people at this
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: hotel party. But also something to be said about, like,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: you had this black woman come out of her house
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: in a way that I don't think many black women
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: would come out of their house unless it was in
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: an emergency, as if it was just, like, no big
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: deal to her. And she knew she was going to
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: be around all these very rich, fancy white people, and
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: that still didn't faze her at all. It's just, like,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: not really based in reality. Yeah. Yeah, that's, like, off topic,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: but it was something I was thinking about from, like,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: a racial perspective.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it does feel like they really go out
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: of their way to kind of other her in every circumstance. Meanwhile,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: they're passing as white chicks, no problem. The Gina character
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: is so, so frustrating. I was honestly shocked that she
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: came back after her opening sequence. So I guess if
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: nothing else, she returns. But again, just like the way
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: that they handle... women in this movie is it's always
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: like and I think they handle Gina in a similar
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: way where they're like well women are hysterical but that's okay.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: Like that's we still love them.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Yes like they're presenting because with Gina the I think
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: that like the breakthrough the breakthrough for Marcus in that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: scene when he's listening to Busy Phillips say like I'm
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: calling this guy all day and like I just want
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: him to like me blah blah blah like his realization
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: there is oh my gosh, my wife hysterically calls me
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: all day. Maybe it's just because she likes me. And
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, but women don't do that.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: It's also like, yeah, your wife likes you. Can you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: imagine the woman you married likes you and wants to
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: speak to you?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Ew.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: It's so, I mean, yeah, that opening sequence, there's literally
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: an opening sequence where the joke is he keeps falling
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: asleep whenever she speaks. And all she does is nag
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: him and yell at him and then obsess over him.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: And so it's like they're presenting this very kind of, like,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: misogynist woman character. And then they decide to accept her.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: And you're like, okay, but who is that? Like, who
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: is that?
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: There is one brief moment where, in that scene where
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: he keeps falling asleep toward the beginning, she says... we
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: don't communicate well. Like you're not a good communicator. And I,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: that's very likely true for him.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: We have no reason to think he's a good communicator
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: based on the movie.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: And, and that would be an interesting arc for him
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: if he was a bad communicator. And we saw evidence
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: of that and she was unhappy with him because of that.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: And then by the end of the movie, he learned through, uh,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: presenting as a woman for the weekend yeah he learned
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: how to be more a more effective communicator that would
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: be an interesting arc for a character but that is
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: not what happens.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: It is not what happened and even if it did
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: happen it's like okay you lived as let's suspend our
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: disbelief you lived as a passable cis white woman for
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: two nights total. And now you understand what it's like
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: to be a woman because we're so simple and we
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: have so little interiority or anything to figure out about
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: us that it's just like, God, if you could just
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: be a woman for two nights, you could figure us
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: all out and be the perfect husband. Because all we
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: want is just you to listen to us, bitch. You
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: know what I mean? We just want to complain a
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: little bit. We want to go shopping.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: They accept the stereotypes of women at the end, and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: you're like, who does this help? One of the other many,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is also just the roast of Tootsie
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: part two, but how in Tootsie, Dustin Hoffman's character similarly,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, in most of these movies, lives as a
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: woman for two days, and then in his case, he
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: immediately becomes the quote unquote, the best at being a woman.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: He becomes the most famous woman on television. And he's like, yep,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: got it. And again, and we've talked about this in
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: all of these other episodes. So obviously we need to
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: touch on it here, but there's also, we've had versions
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: of this discussion in the past of how muddled this
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: gets for the fact that these stories and stories like
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: this and this premise gets prioritized ahead of any other
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: representation of drag and how often conflated it gets with,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: especially the further you go back in time, people's conception
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: of trans people and how much intentionally or not this
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: premise can feed into homophobia and transphobia and just a
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: general prejudice against drag culture. Right.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: Of all of the offenses toward marginalized identities they do
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: in this movie, besides the extremely on its nose, like
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: these cis men are playing cis woman and they are
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: doing it very easily by just like putting a mask
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: on and like some hair on and like what that
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: says about what these filmmakers thought about trans people. Like
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: they're not, I can't think of one on top of
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: my head of like a direct joke that they made
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: at the expense of trans people or gay people.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: Not specifically of trans people, but there's so much just
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: inherent transphobia.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's baked into the whole movie. Like it's kind
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: of in the concept of the whole movie, but it's
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: just like interesting that they were like, okay, we covered
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: this with like kind of the whole plot point of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: us addressing these men as women. So we don't have
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: to say it directly.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Because, I mean, right, there's not a very specific overt
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: joke at the expense of trans people.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: Because they are very specific about other ones.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Right, right, exactly. But this movie also has such a
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: narrow conception of gender in general.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: That, like, the whole movie is based on the conception of, like,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: men be like, women be like. I do agree with you, Taylor,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: that I don't think it is like the worst offender
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: in this genre.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: Not to say that's not an offender, to be clear.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: But it is definitely an offender. Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: There was, I mean, I think that the biggest sort
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: of gay panic moment that I noticed was the Terry
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Crews character waking up next to oh yeah man and.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: One of the other rich white boys.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Yes which i'm like that is also a very bizarre
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: just one of the many never seen this setup before
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: don't like it but i'm saying i've never seen it
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: before um is that that setup those two men being
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: together i think it's implied that they roofied each other
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: because they they wanted to both roofie women and then
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: they ended up roofying each other It's pretty close to that.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen that before. Again, I don't like it,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: but I haven't. Yeah, we've seen the two men waking
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: up next to each other and reacting with horror and
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: disgust a bajillion times across movies. So what happens there
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: is that the guy, the white guy, the younger white guy,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: deliberately drugs himself.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: And we don't know what drug this is, but it's
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: something that.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: I'm fine with them not getting specific. That's fine.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Fine. They seem sort of lucid, sort of not. And
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: he's like talking to a dog at the nightclub at
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: one point being like, I love you too, little puppy. Meanwhile,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Terry Crews' character slips the same drug in Tiffany's drink,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: although he is letting her know that. He's like, here,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: just take it.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: It'll be great.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: And then she's like, ha ha, okay. And then when
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: he's not looking, she swaps the drinks. So he basically
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: accidentally drugs himself. So both of these men have essentially
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: drugged themselves. And then they're all loosey goosey on the
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: dance floor. And then they apparently go home that night,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: wake up in the same bed together. And then they
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: have a moment of gay panic.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: It is a very elaborate setup to get there.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: Truly.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: And like, did we need to get there? Did it
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: move the plot forward in any capacity? I would say no.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: It did not.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: And then, I mean, just even broader, there is homophobia
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: and transphobia just steeped in the idea of a man
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: hitting on someone who he thinks is a cis woman,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: but is actually a cishet man in disguise.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: And this is kind of twofold because we're supposed to
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: think it's funny that the man who's doing the hitting
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: on doesn't know that he's actually flirting with another man.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: And then there's also supposed to be humor in the
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: man who's in disguise as a woman having to deal
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: with the discomfort of being flirted with by another man
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: because that's gross and yucky too. And we've talked about
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: that before. on different episodes of movies where this is
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: the premise of the movie. And again, I haven't seen
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: some Like It Hot in a couple of years.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: But I still feel like it really takes the cake
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: in so many ways, even though it's, like, by far
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: the oldest movie, where the two main characters in that
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: movie kind of love, like, it seems like they really
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: come to enjoy being in drag. And then at the end, like,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: the nobody's perfect moment. It's amazing. Where I feel like,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: especially in the, like, 90s and 2000s, there is always
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: an emphasis on and they're only doing this because for
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: plot reasons, there is no other option. I think that
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: that's kind of why I like, even though it's I think,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: probably definition wise, they are in drag. But it it's
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: not quite that because if you're doing drag, there is intent,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: you want to do it. It's a performance.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: It's entertainment versus they're doing, I think the better term
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: or the better word to use is disguise.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: It's disguise, right. But I think it's like there are
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: so many, especially in 2004, there is so much conflation
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: of what is happening in these premises in a way
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: that like, you know, and again, this is like not
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: specific to white chicks, but in a way that has
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: like a very lasting kind of cultural impact.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: Can I say one more thing about the homophobia in this,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: which is that it's so interesting that even with the
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: choice they made of Terry Crews' character waking up in
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: bed next to the other guy and having that moment
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: of gay panic, they still choose, going back, to make
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: his disgust with discovering that this quote-unquote white woman he's
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: been pursuing this whole movie is actually a black man.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: The disgust is not that he's a man. The disgust
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: is that he's black.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: He's not white.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: You know? And then also one more thing is that
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: when Kevin, I think it is, is taking the reporter
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: back to Terry Crews' character's house and like showing her
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: all around, there's that big, giant, naked photograph of Terry Crews'
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: character on the wall. And she's like, oh, is this...
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: why do you have this? And he's like, yeah, I
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: guess I appreciate the male form. So he says something
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: like that, but it's just like the implication that, that
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: giant naked picture of a man is in Terry Cruz's
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: characters home is like, so what, what angle are they
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: going for with this character?
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: I think, well, the Waynes brothers did, I think that
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: they are trying to do the Some Like It Hot
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: thing and not quite getting it because they do say
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: in press junkets throughout, like when they're promoting this movie,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: that this is like the movie that that was their
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: inspiration for doing this. They wanted to do their version
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: of Some Like It Hot. And I think that they're
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: trying to do something with the Terry Crews character that
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't really land based on that. But yeah, it's like,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: it is very set up. So then, The gay panic
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: moment is kind of bizarre to choose for that character specifically.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: Agreed. Agreed. That's, I think, what I'm getting at. And even, like,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: the scene right before where he's dancing, not that, like,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: dancing as a man with your shirt off and, you know,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: with a whistle in your mouth and, like, he's actually
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: a really good dancer. That's me.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: It's, like, inherently a gay thing. Like, anybody of any
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: sexuality or whatever can, like, dance. But I don't think
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: they're trying to make him look particularly straight. with that
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: like the way that.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah no i i know what you mean he he
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: looks like he's plucked out of a gay nightclub.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: And he's doing a great job you know yeah he'd
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: be the hit it's true.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: Totally yeah so there's it's that's the yeah i mean
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of the jokes are inconsistent.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: It's yeah i mean i think that there's there's we
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: we've touched on i think most of them at this
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: point but it's like It's kind of a toss up
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: with this movie of like if we're making jokes about
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: white chicks, sometimes they're like very funny and work because
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: they're talking about class and they're talking about like white
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: privilege and all this stuff. And other times they're kind
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: of just being misogynist. And like sometimes with like it's
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: like sometimes the jokes are doing what I think they
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: want them to do. And other times it feel like
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: they're punching down kind of.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: And it's, it really is just kind of a toss
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: up from, from joke to joke. It's, it's, I, I
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: kind of ended up stop. Like I, I probably could
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: have written down a lot more, but at some point
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Nope, that's just what this movie is. Yeah.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: The other runner that I did write down was, so
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: there's those two, there's that pair of other FBI agents.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: I forget their names, but they're like sort of the,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: the partners who are like frenemies of Marcus and Kevin. And, um,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: they're doing this extended joke where one of them asks
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: the other one, who would you rather sleep with? And
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: the joke is like, is typically this either like not
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: conventionally attractive person or situation. And you have to choose
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: like which quote unquote gross person.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: Like gun to your head. Who would you sleep with? Like,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: and the options are, yeah.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: Such as like Janet Reno or Rosie O'Donnell or, Pam
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: Anderson and Carmen Electra, but the catch is they both
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: have a yeast infection. Or RuPaul or Whoopi Goldberg was
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: one of them.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: These fuck-ass characters are sick. And so irritating.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It's also just like, Who cares?
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Who cares?
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: Grow up.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Grow up.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: It's a little yeast infection. Oh, yeah.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: And then there's another gay panic moment with those guys
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: where one of them, I think it's the white guy,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: sniffs panties.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: And then later finds out it was his male co-worker's panties.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh. It's just, you know, it's 2004.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And here we are.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: So I guess ultimately there are a handful of moments
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: or beats or whatever that start to provide some sort
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: of commentary on the behavior of wealthy white women. And look,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: white women deserve a lot of scrutiny. But again, it
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: just never gets very far. There's not really a lot
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: of criticism of white men.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: I also kind of noticed. They are, I guess, ultimately
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: the big bads in this kidnapping plot that is kind
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: of like, who cares? No one is coming to this
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: movie for the kidnapping plot.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: Do you know what's funny is that the point where
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: they do get kind of taken down is when there's
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: actually a pretty funny line where at the end it's
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: revealed that the Vandergeld patriarch is one of the kidnappers.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: And his kind of takedown is that now he's poor.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: That's like the worst thing he could possibly be. And
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: it's like, let's debase this white man in the best
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: way we can debase a white man, which is like.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: ignore the kidnapping, ignore like the racism, ignore all of that.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: It's that he has lost all his money and he's poor. Yeah.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like, this is like the ultimate way
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: to take down a white guy is to make fun
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: of how much money he has, where it's like, they're
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: kind of the ones who are doing bad the whole movie. Right.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: Trying to, I don't know.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: It's like, not like I wanted more of those characters.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: No, but.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess I didn't even think about that
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: until after there was a piece that I read. on
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: EngageScholarship.com called Neglecting the Subjects of the Drag Performance in
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: White Chicks, because there is a dissertation on every movie.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: Of course. Of course.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: This is from 2015. And there's a lot of interesting stuff,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of which we've kind of touched on already.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, at the end sort of points out that
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: white women are extensively thought about in this movie they're
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: heavily criticized in like ways that i think are like
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: very effective they're they're um along with the black women
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: in the story lightly characterized but not really at all
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: but that um it's just interesting that like white men
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: are not particularly present in this.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: Story well because they're the default which is like you
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: know yeah race 101 it's like white men are the
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: default and they're also the people who are making decisions Well,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: I was going to say who were making the decisions
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: in Hollywood in 2004, but they're still making the decisions
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: in Hollywood. Let's be honest.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Now more than ever.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: Truly.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: To go back to Denise briefly, the journalist who's the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: love interest of Kevin... You mentioned this a bit ago, Jamie,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: but she is the one exception to the rule in
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: this movie as far as women are hysterical or women
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: are bimbos.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: She's also the only woman with a job as far
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: as I know.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: Yes. She is presented as she's more level-headed. She's more intellectual.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: But also, like... She.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: So this is a romance based on deception where Kevin
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: is lying to her, pretending to be Latrell and bringing
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: her to a house that isn't him and lying about
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: all of this stuff. And despite her. Being a journalist
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: and expressing specifically an interest in investigative journalism, she does
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: not pick up on the obvious clues that he is
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: lying about everything.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: Look, it seems like she's a culture writer, okay?
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: But she says she used to be an investigative journalist
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: and then got fired. I will say that she does
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: provide information. that does help push the story forward in
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: the sense that she's like the guy who you thought
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: was poor is actually rich. Then the brothers figure out, Oh,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: it can't be that Ted Burton guy.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have a motive, but she's never, I mean,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: but to your point, Caitlin, like she's never given, and
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: we've come across this, like this issue so many times
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: in like woman being deceived plots. Whereas like if, if
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: at some point in the movie, she figures it out,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden she's a character and, And, like,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: she wants to be an investigative journalist. Why would she
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: not be interested in this story? But, like, her being
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: a journalist is so incidental. It feels like they're kind
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: of just paying lip service to, like, Well, we wrote
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: a woman. We did it. She has a job and everything.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 4: And she has a job, okay? So get off her back.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: Is she like subjectively the most beautiful woman on planet Earth? Like, yeah. 100%.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: That doesn't even matter. That doesn't even matter.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: But her real– I did really love the delivery of–
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: and that's how I realized my passion was investigative journalism.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, three, two, one for this to never
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: become relevant. And it doesn't. And it sucks because it's
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: like you can so easily just like– you know, bullshit
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: off the top of your head, a way for that
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: to become both very relevant and for her to like
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: actually have a character and they just don't.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: Specifically within the plot of this movie. Like that's kind of,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: oh my God. It's so, so they easily could have
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: caught like 40 minutes off the movie if they had
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 4: just cut Gina's whole role that didn't need to be
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: there because it does nothing to move the movie, the
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: plot forward at all. And like gave all of that
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: kind of investigation, like, Hmm, this seems a little fishy. Like, Hmm,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: I got to get to the bottom of this to
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: the literal investigative journalist in the film.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: That also reminds me of there's like a one-off. Again,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: it's like there's a few self-aware jokes that they'll do
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: before kind of like reinforcing an existing trope anyways. And
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: there's a moment at the very end where Gina is
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: about to forgive Marcus. And she's like brought her friend
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: with her. And her friend is like, I know you're
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: not about to forgive your husband. I know you're not
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: about to forgive your husband when he says sorry one time.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: And she says, oh, go away. And then she forgives
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: her husband and everything is fine because he goes, pee
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: pee poo poo. I'm so sorry. You're so pretty. Like,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: you know, and so they it's I just thought it
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: was interesting that they went out of their way to
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: kind of invent a character to call out the their
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: own poor writing. But they but they did again.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: You're like, you know, and also it's it's almost like
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: they wanted us the white chicks, let's say. uh, not
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: me necessarily, but to learn, to learn, um, to, for,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: for women to ultimately be the people who take a
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: lesson from this movie. And that is that kind of
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: don't ask too many questions. Right. And also if your
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: friend is going to take back her like conniving, lying, like,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: husband who finds her objectively boring and like, doesn't really
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: want to spend time with her and ignores her phone calls.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: Like you're being a bad friend by bringing her attention
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: to that. Just let her do her thing.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's true. You know, she's probably just jealous.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: There's that moment toward the end where the man that
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: busy Phillips, this character likes, she confronts him and she's like, you, because,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: because again, the men who are pretending to be women
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: teach women, a woman a lesson on how to respect
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: yourself as a woman. And she goes, you know what,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: you don't deserve me. I'm more than just a booty call.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: You don't respect me. And he's like, what? Oh, my God.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: I can't believe you're calling me out for this. And
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: we're supposed to be like, woohoo.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: She did it.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 4: Girl power.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Girl power.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: She learned how to be a woman because a man
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: taught her.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: Always. Always in these stories. No, I'm not going to
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: bring up Tootsie a 40th time.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: I think you can bring up Tootsie a 40th time.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: I'll do it.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: I think that my favorite woman... paradoxically I do think
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: my favorite character in Tootsie is the woman who he
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: deceitfully falls in love with the Jessica Lange character because
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: there is that like really frustrating confounding thing at the
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: end of that movie where she sees him you know
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: like after he's been revealed to not be dorothy or
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: whatever and she's just like i miss you when you
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: were dorothy and like doesn't really it's suggested that she's
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: going to end up with them anyways but i was
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: like that was i don't know i always find that
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: like that line so interesting of like she really needed
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: a woman friend and now she is expected to have
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: a fuck-ass boyfriend and like how disappointing would that be
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: and like but but this movie i think like it
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: White Chicks is very much, with the exception of the
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: nod of the Terry Crews joke, it does do, I think,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: what this kind of movie more often does, which is just,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: quote unquote, like, restores straight cis order to the world.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: And there is, like, the sort of last five minutes
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: of the movie are going from character to character and
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: affirming that, quote unquote, order has been restored. Yeah.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: Even though we, like, deceived you and lied to you and, like,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: We're in spaces that you would not have let us
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: in had you known that we were pretending to be
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: your friends and not actually your friends. You forgave us.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: And like, we're going to go shopping later.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: Because women be shopping. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: Does anyone have anything else they want to say?
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: What a journey. Girls, what a journey. Oh, boy. Yeah,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: I think that that's... I mean, yeah, I could keep going,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: but that's basically everything I had.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 4: I could talk about this movie truly all day.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: It really... There's so much going on. Nothing else like it.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Well, does it pass the Bechdel test?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: And mind you, we are not considering Kevin and Marcus
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: when they are in disguise as the Wilson sisters.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: They are not. And we're not supposed to. I think
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: that there might be some like barely passes. There's like
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: between the white chicks. Or no, sorry, the white women.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: Women, yeah, the friends.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: I think that there are a few soft passes between
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: the friends. It is usually, but I think that like
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: any pass that does exist is performing gendered stereotypes. And
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: so I'm sort of like not wanting to give it
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: to them for this one. Maybe technically, but not for me.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, even if it technically did,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 4: I think the, let's say the vibe of a movie
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: as a whole fails it.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: We always say spiritually it does not pass.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: Even if it maybe technically does.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: In the movie White Chicks, I do think they fail
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: to write coherently a single woman and therefore it does
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: not pass.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: They fail to write coherently a single movie. Yeah.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: And you'll never guess that there are six screenplay by
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: credited writers.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: On this movie. That does crack me up. Seeing that
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: in the end, you're like, how many men do we
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: need to get in a room for this?
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: It took six men.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: Not a single one is a woman.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: Not a single, no. It is three of the Wayans brothers,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Keenan Ivory, Sean and Marlon, and then three other people
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: who I didn't even bother to look up. So I
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about them.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: I'll do a quick check. Please. Michael Anthony Snowden, Andy McElfish.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: McElfresh. McElfresh.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, McElfish I like better. Okay.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: McElfresh is probably how you say it, but I like McElfresh.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: I like it too. McElfresh. McElfresh. Yeah, it's all middle-aged
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: men wrote this movie.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: Not a single one was like, hmm, we're going to
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: make a movie that primarily centers around these two men
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: who are dressed as women and their interactions with these
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: other three women. And we're going to call it White Chicks.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: We probably don't need any women to take.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: A look at this script.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: Like we're probably, we can figure this. We know women,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 4: they're easy.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: We got this.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: We got this.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Women are hysterical. That's what we know. And that's what
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: we'll write.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: But we controversially are going to say that's actually awesome.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: And we get it.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: Can I ask you guys one question before we wrap
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: it up?
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: Please.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: Do you think that there is a way that this
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: movie is, Could be made today. The sentence is not over.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: Could be made today with all of the 2026 kind
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: of progress we've made with respect to showing marginalized identities
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: in movies. Do you think they could remake White Chicks
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: in a way that we could release it today and
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: people would be like, this is fine? It doesn't have
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: to be good.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: I think it would have to depend on so many things.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like so many of the specifics would
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: have to change.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: That it wouldn't be the same movie.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't know. So much would have
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: to go. I don't know. I mean, I do. Whether
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: we like it or not, this premise will continue to
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: happen in movies. It is just like a premise that
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: has existed for so long. I mean, that's like a
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: bunch of Shakespeare plays are also have more. Look, Shakespeare
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: has more in common with white chicks than you may think.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, so She's the Man
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: is based on Twelfth Night. Is that right?
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: And that's a movie about someone of one gender pretending
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: to be another gender in order to prove something and
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: in order to be able to play soccer. And it's
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: a movie that's not without its faults.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: But it's a movie that I really enjoy. Mulan is
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: a movie about disguising as a different gender. In order
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: to X, Y, Z.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: There is something in common with both of those movies.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: Is it that they're women pretending to be men? Correct.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's impossible for a movie about
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: the sort of reverse of that, a cis man pretending
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: to be a cis woman that can't work. I just
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: haven't really seen evidence of it working.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say maybe maybe maybe probably not i would
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: yeah uh i i would rather there's so many movies
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: i would rather see than uh this premise.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: Again very true yeah i think i yearn for just
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: like a comedy you can watch with your friends like
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: drunk on a couch that's not like doesn't necessarily have
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 4: to be a thinker but i think that there's probably
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 4: a happy medium between the 2004 iteration of that and
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: like what the 2026 iteration of that would be. Um,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 4: that doesn't have to be disgusting in so many capacities.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I believe, I believe we should do it.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 4: We should just wait a second.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: I want to make a stoner film that only has
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: women in it.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, Taylor, you'd be so good at it.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: I don't think we have one yet. We got to
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 4: make one.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: Not really.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: What was that?
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: There was a recent. Kristen Stewart.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: Kristen Stewart and Alia.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I have not seen it.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen it either.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: But I saw it and I didn't like it very much.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 4: Not good. No.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: All right, Taylor, you got to do it. Yeah.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 4: Okay. Well.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: If I need a couple of people to look at
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: the scripts, I'm going to hit up five men. So
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 4: I'm so sorry that you guys won't be on the list.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: No, that we understand. No, of course.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: I'm really sorry about that.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: Five men in their 40s are going to be stop
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: number one.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 4: I don't even know five men in their 40s.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: And that's a blessing for you. Okay, so spiritually does
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: not pass the Bechdel test. What about our nipple scale
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: feminist lens?
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: Boy, I don't know.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go half nipple on this one. I
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: was considering zero, but I'm going to go a half
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: nipple because... they do start to provide some commentary on
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: white privilege and the weaponizing of white woman tears and
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. Again, the movie kind of drops it.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: It doesn't explore that to its full potential, but it
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: does a little bit of that and those were some
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: of my favorite parts of the movie. Otherwise, it is
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: so steeped in homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, racism. It's copaganda.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: It is copaganda.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: It's got all these problems.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 4: Wow, that's one you don't even usually see.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: You know, that's like a, wow.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: But so yeah, a half nipple. And I'll give it
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: to Gina, Marcus's wife, because she deserved better.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: She deserved a hobby.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: Anything.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: Or a part-time job.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: Anything.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Anything at all. A second outfit. You know, so many things.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: A friend who spoke more than once in the whole film.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe next time. Yeah, I guess I'll meet you at
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: a half. I think that this movie, like we've been
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: talking about for two hours, plays into... basically every you
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: know fault of broad comedies of this time and some
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: that are like more particular to wayne's brothers movie specifically
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: but i think it's the 90s 2000s broad offensive humor
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: that is punching at just about anyone who is not
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: who are not men is very present here for sure
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: i also think that this movie has an interesting it's
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: like i feel like i've been kind of talking around
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: this whole time but like this movie has an interesting
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: place in the history of this premise because I think
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: it is uniquely attempting to talk about race and class
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: in a way that is kind of unusual for this premise,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: a premise I generally find is like poorly handled, including here,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: but in a way I've never seen before.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: And in a way that's maybe on accident.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's so hard to, especially when
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: you're watching a movie that's like that came out 20
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: years ago, you're like, the things that they get right
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: may be kind of just like.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: Just coincidental.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: They're just throwing darts. So I'll go half nipple, and
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: I guess I will give mine to the world's worst reporter. Denise. Denise. Denise. Taylor,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: what about you?
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 4: It deserves zero nipples, I'll be honest, but This is
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 4: extremely shallow. So hear me out.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: Go for it.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: But I also do agree with everything everybody else has said. Obviously,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: there's the dynamic between the Vandergaald sisters and the Wilson
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: sisters in that front group and they're like enemies. But
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: I do think the way that they portray the friendship
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 4: between the main cast and like the main white woman
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 4: and the white chicks is like kind of nice and
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 4: not catty in a way that lots of female friendships
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: are like usually portrayed where.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: It's like they are supportive of each other you know what.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: And it's like they're always like you look beautiful like
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: we'll find you an outfit like they're very much like
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 4: oh honey like you I'll help you zip it you
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: know like it it's a little heartwarming in a way
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 4: that I think that sometimes they're like this is your
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 4: best friend, but behind your back, she's doing something like this,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 4: you know?
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: 95% of female friendship is zipping up our clothes for
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: It's so, and that's, that's going to make me tear up.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So I will give it, yeah, I'll give it
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 4: half a nipple for everything y'all said. And also because
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: I do think that friendship, female friendship dynamic is beautiful.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 4: And I will give it to, hmm, what was the
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 4: character that, White woman, brown hair. There's like the redhead one,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 4: there's Busy Phillips, and then there's brown.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: Lisa? Is that Jamie King?
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe? Okay.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 4: At one point, one of the white chicks is in
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 4: the bathroom having a poop emergency and is like, I'll
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 4: be right out. And they're like, oh, are you having
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: like a bad period? The redhead one offers a tampon
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: and Jamie King's character offers a pad. And I think
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 4: that's empowering because they're so much discourse around tampons versus
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: pads and pads get a lot of pads get a
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 4: lot of shit and so she gets my half a
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 4: nipple for being like yeah i'm a pad gal.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: That's very true i was also surprised that those three
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: white women weren't like oh you're pooping gross oh my
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: god they were just like you seem to be maybe
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: you need a minute by yourself that's their.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 4: Friend you know yeah yeah if my friend was shitting
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: up my bathroom i would be like are you good
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: otherwise Shit away, girl.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: I'll give you some privacy.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you some space. That is true. That
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: is true. I think that a lesser movie would have
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: the women turn against each other in a cat like
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: I think that they go they go so heavy into
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: like bimbo territory. that they neglect to go catty.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. And we got them in that way. Ladies.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: We got them.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: We got them ladies.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: So actually this movie deserves five nipples.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Well, Taylor, thank you so much. This has
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: been a blast.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: Truly.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 4: This is a dream come true. I can't wait to
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 4: record another one next week.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Truly come back.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be about white chicks.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: Come back anytime. Come back next week, the week after
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: all of, all of the.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 4: Weeks I can't wait I'm gonna watch so many movies
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 4: um thank you both for having me on I love
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 4: you both dearly and you're both like really pretty I
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 4: hope that's okay to say.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: Oh my god wait thank you you're the most beautiful
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: woman in the world.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 4: You're so pretty oh wait sorry I gotta be catty
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 4: yeah pretty Nice. See, I'm bad at it. I'm bad
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: at it. Damn.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: Fuck.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: I think I'm pretty nice. Yeah.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: No, I'm hurt.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: We're all gorgeous. We're all such good people. And that's
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: why we're friends.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah. The gorgeousness doesn't even matter. I want to make
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 4: that clear. But it is an objective truth about you
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 4: both inside and out. Beautiful people.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: And you as well.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Likewise.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: I love you.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: Tell us where people can follow you on social media,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: plug anything you want to plug.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: Sure. You can find me on Instagram at Taylor Garan.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: You can find me on Twitter at Taylor Garan. I'm
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: not proud of that. I'm on TikTok at Taylor Garan.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: I got to post more. My manager's like kind of
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: getting on my ass about it. But yeah, Instagram's your
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 4: best bet. And I do stand up in New York
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 4: and LA. Yeah, I'm a recurring teacher on Abbott Elementary.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 4: So if you watch it, I will pop up and
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 4: say something for Comic Relief every couple of episodes. Be
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 4: on the lookout for that.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And I got some, got some ions in the fire.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: So keep an eye on me. I may not be
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 4: the most famous Taylor, but.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: That of course being Taylor Lautner. Just kidding.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And his wife.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: And then followed by unfortunately Taylor Lautner and then Taylor Guerin.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: And then I think Taylor Swift is like 15. Yeah.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah. She's on the list.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 4: She's really taken the one for the team because you
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 4: don't want to be that famous, you know?
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's true.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 4: It's true.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: I heard that the, the Taylor's Lautner are. having a
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: baby and they are considering making the most annoying choice
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: they could possibly make.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: To name it Taylor?
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 4: Just put it as a middle name and call it Taylor.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: How much attention do you guys need? All right. Come on.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 4: I would do it. I think it's funny. I would
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 4: absolutely do it.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: I think people should name their kids, like do a
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: bit when they're naming their kids.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Ultimately that's what having a kid is for.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: That is true. The psychological torture angle is, I wouldn't
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: say it's slept on, actually. It's popular.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. My parents did it. Yeah. Not to my name,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 4: just like in their kind of actions, you know. Anyway.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: And raising me, yes. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Well, yes.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Taylor. Everyone follow Taylor and go
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: watch her shows and watch Abbott Elementary and everything. And
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: then you can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matreon, at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: where we post two bonus episodes every single month.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: You can come see us on tour. In the middle
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: of October, we are touring... throughout the Northeast. So we
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: will be in New York, we'll be in Boston, we'll
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: be in Pittsburgh, we'll be in State College, we'll be
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: in Baltimore, we'll be in Philadelphia. I think that's all
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: of them with more dates to come all around the
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: country for our 10th anniversary.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: Go to linktree.com for tickets to those shows.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: And with that... Um, let's, Ooh, gosh, how do we,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: how do we wrap this one?
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: Let's make our way downtown. Walking fast.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 4: You guys want to say, I'll say the N word
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 4: on three.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Okay. Ready?
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: One, two, it cuts out.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: Bye. Yes.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: by me, Jamie Loftus.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: Sophie Lichterman.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: And edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of them? That's me.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: And our logo and merch and all of our artwork,
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: Ever heard of her? Oh, my God. And our theme song,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: Iconic. And a special thanks to the one and only
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.com.