Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Crafting Perfect Celebrity Portraits with Matthew Jordan Smith, E062

Transcript

Crafting Perfect Celebrity Portraits with Matthew Jordan Smith, E062 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt Jacob: Who is your favorite celebrity that you've?
• 0:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: photographed.
• 0:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Favorite celebrity of the moment.
• 0:06
  Matt Jacob: Tell us some insights to how the fashion photography thing works and how people can get into it.
• 0:11
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The first thing anybody needs to do is study the first part, fashion.
• 0:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: There's so much more to do today and everybody's doing it.
• 0:19
  Matt Jacob: And it's easy to get left behind.
• 0:21
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think when you are pushing the boundaries and doing things that give you a bit of fear, that's when you are pushing the boundaries and doing things that give you a bit of fear.
• 0:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's when you are at your best.
• 0:26
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My goal on every job is to try to make an image that may become iconic.
• 0:31
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now, that's hard to do.
• 0:32
  Matt Jacob: Pinpoint, one lesson that you've learned along the way that you believe is really important to pass on to other photographers.
• 0:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Absolutely.
• 0:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is a big one.
• 0:43
  Matt Jacob: Welcome to the Mood Podcast, where, each week, I bring you inspiring conversations with top artists and creative minds from various fields, exploring their personalities, purposes, processes and philosophies.
• 0:57
  Matt Jacob: Whether you're a seasoned photographer, an aspiring artist or simply someone who loves to learn and be inspired, this podcast is certainly for you.
• 1:06
  Matt Jacob: I'm your host, matt Jacob, and thank you so much for joining me in today's conversation.
• 1:12
  Matt Jacob: Our guest today is the highly regarded American portrait photographer, matthew Jordan Smith.
• 1:20
  Matt Jacob: Matthew is renowned for his exceptional work in fashion, beauty and celebrity photography, with an extensive portfolio that includes shooting for major magazines, advertising campaigns and working with some of the most well-known personalities in the world.
• 1:38
  Matt Jacob: Beyond his impressive body of work, though, matthew is also an educator and motivational speaker, sharing his insights on creativity, photography and the business of art with audiences around the globe.
• 1:54
  Matt Jacob: Currently living in Japan, he continues to make significant contributions to the global photography community through his work and his teachings.
• 2:03
  Matt Jacob: In my conversation with him, we explore Matthew's journey into photography from an early age, discussing the pivotal moments that shaped his career and how his move to Tokyo in Japan has influenced his artistic vision.
• 2:18
  Matt Jacob: We talk about his experiences working with celebrities and prominent figures in the fashion industry, uncovering the challenges and rewards of capturing the essence of high-profile subjects.
• 2:31
  Matt Jacob: Matthew also shares his philosophy on art, the evolution of photography in the digital age and the balance between creative passion and the business side of photography.
• 2:42
  Matt Jacob: Also, there are a few peeks behind the curtain of his experiences, with some fascinating people, sharing with us some stories that he remembers over the years and some that really shaped the artist and person he is today.
• 2:58
  Matt Jacob: Matthew's humility, kindness, wisdom and experience offer real, valuable lessons for us as photographers, artists and creators.
• 3:09
  Matt Jacob: Whether your interest in the technical aspects of photography, the creative process or the challenges of building a successful career in the arts, this conversation I had with him definitely touches on them all.
• 3:22
  Matt Jacob: So now I bring you Matthew Jordan-Smith.
• 3:26
  Matt Jacob: Matthew Jordan-Smith, welcome.
• 3:38
  Matt Jacob: So much to the Moo Podcast.
• 3:41
  Matt Jacob: It's really great to have you.
• 3:42
  Matt Jacob: Thanks for joining me today.
• 3:44
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's good to be here.
• 3:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Thank you for having me on.
• 3:47
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, no problem.
• 3:48
  Matt Jacob: I wanted to kick off with a question that's purely of self-interest, but I'm sure it'd be of interest to other people who is your favorite celebrity that you've photographed?
• 4:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh man, there's so many.
• 4:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My favorite celebrity I think it changes from year to year depending on what's going on Favorite celebrity of the moment, I guess for me would be Zendaya.
• 4:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, she's like the hot one right now for sure.
• 4:16
  Matthew Jordan Smith: She's fun, she's young yeah, I mean, who does not?
• 4:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: She's incredible, right, yeah, yeah.
• 4:21
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Yeah, at the moment I guess it's in zendaya, but I've got a lot of favorites actually, like no queen, latifah tyra, I mean because they're all cool in so many different ways, you know.
• 4:33
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it'd be hard to say the favorite.
• 4:35
  Matt Jacob: Aretha franklin yeah, I got so many favorites out there yeah, we're gonna get on to a few of them later.
• 4:40
  Matt Jacob: I mean, I'm guess.
• 4:41
  Matt Jacob: I guess you're not gonna tell me who the biggest diva was that you photographed oh yeah, I'll tell you that one for sure.
• 4:48
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think the the biggest diva is probably the one who deserves to be the diva, and that'd be aretha.
• 4:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think she's probably the biggest diva I've ever photographed.
• 4:56
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know who, you know, want her respect and all that, and I've got so many stories of aretha.
• 5:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know I photographed her for like 13, 14 years so, and then she passed away in 2018.
• 5:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But those last uh, 14 years of her life, I worked with her and she was a diva, like, uh, many people think, but in a great way.
• 5:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: How?
• 5:19
  Matt Jacob: do you then go about working with someone like that?
• 5:23
  Matt Jacob: I mean, aretha may be slightly different because you worked so long with her, but if you've got someone like zendaya on in the studio for a day or however long, I guess it's just an hour.
• 5:33
  Matt Jacob: I mean, tell us a little bit about that, but tell us more about how you, how you go about capturing as much as you can of who they are connecting with them and who they are as an individual, as an artist or whoever they might be.
• 5:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I always dive into research right away when I know I'm going to photograph somebody who's well-known, and whether I've worked with them before or not, it doesn't matter.
• 5:57
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'll dive into research to find out what I don't know about them and I'll look for things that are beyond the normal stuff, like beyond like what movie they've been in or whatever project they've worked on.
• 6:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I want to find out something about them as a person, because that's what I use when I'm photographing them that real life experience that we all go through, like, for example, where were they doing some big event like the Olympics, which just happened?
• 6:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, were they there?
• 6:26
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Did they watch any of the games?
• 6:29
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know who's their favorite gymnast, or all that stuff that we all are curious about.
• 6:33
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Or, like you know life events like if you lose somebody in your family or a holiday that we're all celebrating Food's a great one.
• 6:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I find those things that people like that they identify with as a person, because you know there are people beyond just celebrities and talk about that as I shoot them, and that creates this connection.
• 6:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's worked for me for 37 years yeah, amazing.
• 6:59
  Matt Jacob: Well, let's go back to the beginning of those 37 years and tell me how it all started, how you fell in love with photography and what your journey began like.
• 7:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I got to thank my father for that.
• 7:12
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I got a picture of him on the side here, so I'm looking over at the picture of him.
• 7:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My father gave me a camera as a kid and taught me how to use it, turn the bathroom into a makeshift darkroom.
• 7:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And I was born in Brooklyn, new York, and we moved to South Carolina, in the South of America, when I was seven and at that point it's like I felt like I didn't fit in in the South.
• 7:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I picked that for my accent at the time my strong New York accent at the time and my father gave me a camera and taught me how to use it.
• 7:44
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It was a way to almost combat that feeling like the odd man out in this new environment.
• 7:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And from that point on I grew up playing with the camera, learning more about it and fell in love with it.
• 7:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And at first it was just this love of photography.
• 7:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Didn't think I could do it as a career, but then things just evolved and evolved went to art school.
• 8:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Uh, left art school, went to new york, worked as a photo assistant to a lot of great fashion and beauty photographers, and that's how it really began for me fantastic, and where are you at now?
• 8:17
  Matt Jacob: I mean, we're going to touch on japan a little bit later, but tell us what you do now in terms of your photography and your photography business I'm now a photographer based in Tokyo, tokyo, japan.
• 8:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm in the States a lot, sometimes too much.
• 8:31
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I just got back from spending a month in the States zipping all over, you know, la, new York, detroit, Ohio, just plugging away, um, just plugging away, and I go now to the states about four times a year.
• 8:48
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Four or five times a year depending on what's going on.
• 8:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: For the year before covid I went like 10 times a year.
• 8:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So now it's much easier and I like this pace.
• 8:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I like, like you know, four or five times a year.
• 8:57
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's fine, I can live with that, but 10 times is too much to go back and forth because you're always living in the airport and out of your suitcase.
• 9:04
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I know that feeling.
• 9:05
  Matt Jacob: Where was the emanation of your move to Japan and kind of, why did you move over there?
• 9:12
  Matt Jacob: What was there for you?
• 9:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: For me.
• 9:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I came to visit years ago just on a whim.
• 9:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I was going to like visit a place I've never been before and I came to Tokyo and I'm like, oh my God, I was living in New York at the time and I thought that New York was like the center of the universe.
• 9:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Then I got here and I'm like, wait a minute, this is cool.
• 9:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I came back to visit I kid you, not man Like 12 times over the period of like maybe 15, 20 years.
• 9:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I came back to visit like 12 times and I said one day I'm gonna live here and made the switch and said, okay, you know what?
• 9:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You have one life.
• 9:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You can't wait to like put things off.
• 9:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And uh, 70 years ago actually eight years ago, in november I made the move and I wish I'd done it sooner.
• 9:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I love it.
• 9:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I was just about the lifestyle.
• 10:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I love the lifestyle here and that was really the reason for the move.
• 10:06
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, fantastic.
• 10:06
  Matt Jacob: I think Tokyo is almost the Asian New York, right, it's, it's just such a cool.
• 10:11
  Matt Jacob: It's just such a cool vibe.
• 10:12
  Matt Jacob: People are really nice, it's very quiet, polite, clean, but it still has great vibe, great energy, great kind of cultural differences.
• 10:21
  Matt Jacob: So, yeah, I don't blame you at all, I must have.
• 10:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Yeah, I mean I love new york yeah, yeah, of course I love new york and always will.
• 10:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But there's like I mean I just came from there, like last week, so it's fresh in my mind of being in the city and going around there things about new york you can't get anywhere else like a broadway show.
• 10:38
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You can't get that anywhere else but new york.
• 10:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But the lifestyle here I love it.
• 10:45
  Matt Jacob: Tell me more about the lifestyle here.
• 10:48
  Matt Jacob: I love it.
• 10:48
  Matt Jacob: Tell me more about the lifestyle and photography in Tokyo.
• 10:51
  Matt Jacob: How has that changed your outlook and artistic outlook on photography ever at all?
• 10:56
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's changed me a lot.
• 10:57
  Matthew Jordan Smith: As a matter of fact, I think that I'm more of a perfectionist living here because of the culture here.
• 11:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Everything's done to this perfection level, everything and it kind of blows you away because there's things you take for granted about life back in the States.
• 11:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then I come here and I see the level of dedication and perfection that goes into everything.
• 11:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I don't care from the small to the large.
• 11:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Everything is precise and beautiful and as an artist whether you're a photographer, any of the arts I think living here or being exposed to life here makes you see things differently and I needed that.
• 11:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think after being in the States for so long, it was a wake up call for me to push, push, push the craft even more and I love that about living here.
• 11:53
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's a very tangible place Like they still have.
• 11:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: They're still into albums, like vinyl bars, extremely big here and there's like the the only um you know place to buy albums in Tokyo.
• 12:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Or the big place to buy albums in Tokyo is like Tower Records.
• 12:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's the only one left in the world and it's packed all the time.
• 12:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Magazines are still king here, still big and everywhere.
• 12:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Like they used to be, I guess, in like maybe the 90s in New York City.
• 12:22
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's kind of cool to see that, that tangible thing, and how they hold on to the tangible.
• 12:28
  Matt Jacob: Which I guess plays quite nicely into photography.
• 12:31
  Matt Jacob: They enjoy the prints more, they enjoy books more.
• 12:34
  Matt Jacob: It's not as kind of digital heavy right.
• 12:38
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Right, the print thing's a little bit different.
• 12:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I do miss that part because it's not a culture that puts pictures on the wall, that hangs images, except, of course, me.
• 12:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I have my pictures on the wall, but most people in Japan don't do that and it's a cultural thing for the most part.
• 12:56
  Matthew Jordan Smith: A lot of places are very clean and sparse, so you don't have a lot of that on the wall and pictures on the wall like you'll find in the States, but of course there's a lot of room for advertising and editorial and all those great things in Japan.
• 13:27
  Matt Jacob: But I'm also interested in how you look back on your early work now and how it's changed over the years being in the industry for so long.
• 13:31
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's funny Now living here, I look for different mediums to show my work on.
• 13:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I guess the way I show my work has definitely changed quite a bit.
• 13:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Before I was just printing an image on whatever paper I could find and putting in a frame like I have behind me.
• 13:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But now my exhibits in Japan are on different materials, like washi, japanese paper.
• 14:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But the washi has more texture to it and it's kind of interesting.
• 14:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You'll see like the fiber in it and I love that.
• 14:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm printing on like a traditional Japanese scrolls that rolls out for a long time and those are done on the same paper that was used for doing the scrolls thousands of years ago, doing the scrolls thousands of years ago.
• 14:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it's changed me in that way to see beyond what was normal.
• 14:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And some of the work that I produce now doesn't fit into social media.
• 14:33
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Everything we see now is on a device.
• 14:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it's going to this little square in some way or rectangle in some way and we create work now for that.
• 14:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But what's cool about living here?
• 14:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You think about outside that box and create work to go outside that box.
• 14:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And that's kind of cool because the work I'm doing now, the work that I'm really enjoying doing now does not fit into social media in any way, because it doesn't.
• 15:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You can't show it, you can't appreciate it, so you have to go out and see it, like in a gallery, in a museum, and I really enjoyed that.
• 15:09
  Matt Jacob: So how does, then, social media play into your strategy, as, certainly on the business side of photography, is that something you think about consciously all the time?
• 15:22
  Matthew Jordan Smith: All the time.
• 15:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: All the time, and it's funny it's taken over in so many ways.
• 15:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I had a meeting this morning actually, and uh, with clients and I did a uh ad campaign within like the last month um, actually a month and a half, right before I left to go to the States and they're they're about to launch uh elements of it online and they're about to launch elements of it online and they're planning all.
• 15:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Then they want me to repost once they post and they want it to be done at a certain time.
• 15:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So all those things are a big factor.
• 15:53
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now, not only that you post, that you post things at a certain time, a certain way, after a client post, because I can't post things, cause under NDAs, things like that but it's it's changed our world.
• 16:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Like now we're not just showing our work, we're doing things like you know, showing ourselves, which back in the day you didn't do so.
• 16:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now we are in front of cameras, you're showing behind the scenes as you're working.
• 16:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's now a big part of it, cause that goes into the social media part and I I feel like we're now, like you know, almost like the, the, the actors were like uh, on camera and just you have to be like not just a photographer, but you got a great be a great uh person in front of the camera as well.
• 16:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know speaking.
• 16:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Sometimes I'm speaking on camera for clients, sometimes I'm behind the camera shooting.
• 16:44
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• 16:53
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• 17:01
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• 17:14
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• 17:21
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• 17:26
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• 17:34
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• 17:38
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• 17:42
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• 17:48
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• 17:58
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• 18:03
  Matt Jacob: All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 18:04
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I think almost we're becoming.
• 18:08
  Matt Jacob: I mean, for someone like you and me who remember life before iPhones, before social media and remember photography before that, it seems it's more.
• 18:20
  Matt Jacob: I mean, I don't know I'm not going to speak for you, but I've just found it so difficult to find to become natural at it, if that makes sense, to become kind of consistently organic with social.
• 18:32
  Matt Jacob: Just I just still don't understand it.
• 18:34
  Matt Jacob: I just still don't understand social media.
• 18:36
  Matt Jacob: I have some I've reached out to so many people over the years like just help me, I don't understand what to do.
• 18:42
  Matt Jacob: I want to use it because I can see the power in it as a tool.
• 18:46
  Matt Jacob: But you know, I don't want to show my personal life.
• 18:49
  Matt Jacob: I don't mind speaking in front of camera like this, but I don't want to show my home and my family.
• 18:55
  Matt Jacob: I don't want to do that and I don't believe that's necessary.
• 18:59
  Matt Jacob: But I definitely agree with you Like we have to show behind the curtain a little bit for people to have that interest and therefore people to maybe follow you and therefore people to maybe engage with you, and therefore we can get more exposure and maybe more jobs and more just, I guess, fulfillment with our work.
• 19:14
  Matt Jacob: Does that resonate with you at all?
• 19:17
  Matthew Jordan Smith: it totally does and I, I don't know.
• 19:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, I feel like maybe once we, when we we figure things out, it changes again.
• 19:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The algorithm changes or whatever is, like, you know, the it thing for the moment.
• 19:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, right now it's reels, maybe it's going to be back to pictures at one time or who knows, man, but it just changes so fast and it's like fashion, consistently changing all the time.
• 19:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And you know you do your part to stay, you know, true to yourself and put your work out there.
• 19:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I talk to other photographers around the world all the time and everybody feels the same thing, like you just want to create beautiful work.
• 19:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But I think, with things like AI coming in, the showing behind the scenes is super important to show that it's a real person.
• 20:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Even before I got on this podcast today, I'm looking at my phone and there's a thing on, like the news about an image of a politician back in the States and there was this thing oh, it's a fake image, and they had to prove it was a real image.
• 20:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And that was like cropped, they had to show the original picture, show it before it was enhanced a little bit with, like you know, just you know, adding little contrast and brightening up the image that we normally do, but I'm like, wow, that's where it is.
• 20:33
  Matthew Jordan Smith: People feel like, oh, is this real?
• 20:36
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I think people seeing us creating images behind the scenes gives this little like a behind the curtain image and proves that it's real yeah, I think, um, I think the ai is a is.
• 20:49
  Matt Jacob: I mean, I've talked about this, this so much and again, it's changing so rapidly, but I think the legislation really, really has to catch up.
• 20:57
  Matt Jacob: It's it's got so much.
• 20:58
  Matt Jacob: It's got so much distance to go the legislation, because we're in these points that you're just talking about where we have to prove that something's real.
• 21:02
  Matt Jacob: It should be the other way.
• 21:02
  Matt Jacob: So much distance to go the legislation, because we're in these points that you're just talking about where we have to prove that something's real.
• 21:06
  Matt Jacob: It should be the other way around.
• 21:07
  Matt Jacob: Right, there should be an authentication label that we should just be able to just qualify straight away.
• 21:15
  Matt Jacob: So that's what worries me on one side and and therefore, like you've said correctly, it means we just have to work harder, which which is okay.
• 21:24
  Matt Jacob: But you know we were talking off air before the conversation.
• 21:28
  Matt Jacob: So I just want to take photos, you know.
• 21:30
  Matt Jacob: I just I want to.
• 21:30
  Matt Jacob: Yes, there is definitely ego there.
• 21:33
  Matt Jacob: There's definitely like purpose of fulfillment that I want to be recognized for my photography, but that's it.
• 21:38
  Matt Jacob: I don't want to be doing social media, I don't want to be doing marketing, I don't want to be doing admin and business and all that kind of stuff.
• 21:46
  Matt Jacob: But hey, that's just where we're at, I guess it's all in.
• 21:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's just there's so much more to do today and everybody's doing it and it's easy to get left behind.
• 21:56
  Matt Jacob: Um, and you can kind of goes into my next point.
• 22:00
  Matt Jacob: Next question is what advice would you give yourself?
• 22:04
  Matt Jacob: You know, 10 years ago, let alone maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, I mean you've seen such rapid change in the industry.
• 22:11
  Matt Jacob: I'm keen to hear kind of how you look back on it now.
• 22:14
  Matt Jacob: Maybe social media is one of them.
• 22:16
  Matt Jacob: Right, get on that earlier or be better, whatever it is.
• 22:18
  Matt Jacob: How do you, how would you look back on that now?
• 22:21
  Matt Jacob: What advice would you give yourself, would it?
• 22:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh my God, I mean looking back on it now.
• 22:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My advice to myself would be to jump in early on things, because for me, I know back in the day you're tied to what you do and you're not, I guess, trustful of things.
• 22:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You're like, oh no, that's not going to be big, that's not going to take over, or I don't need to do this thing called Twitter you know Twitter or X or whatever it was you know to experiment and be open.
• 22:52
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That'd be my, I guess, advice to myself if I could go back 10 years, like, oh, jump on things right away, don't wait just because you don't know if it's going to take off or fail or not.
• 23:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You just don't know.
• 23:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Totally agree with you.
• 23:06
  Matt Jacob: I was put off social media for so long because I just didn't agree with the whole philosophy behind it.
• 23:12
  Matt Jacob: But yeah, I do regret that now for sure.
• 23:16
  Matt Jacob: You look at the photographers who got into it in 2015, 16, and they're just so integrated in it.
• 23:23
  Matt Jacob: They've got an audience from back then.
• 23:25
  Matt Jacob: But hey, we've learned other lessons along the way that happened like all over oh yeah, saw that.
• 23:34
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh my god saying, yeah, we didn't know what was going.
• 23:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Everybody was like like what's going on and we didn't know what it was.
• 23:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Nobody knew what it was.
• 23:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then later on we say, oh, it's all over the country.
• 23:44
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's like you know this microsoft thing that like or the airlines got grounded.
• 23:50
  Matt Jacob: There was yeah.
• 23:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Yeah.
• 23:52
  Matt Jacob: I was actually in the States at that point and luckily I got out.
• 23:56
  Matt Jacob: I don't know, I can't remember how it got out, but yeah, it was kind of amazing how a glitch can send the whole country into.
• 24:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The whole country now.
• 24:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We're so tied to these devices now, and every country, every company is as well, but, like you know, the airlines, all that stuff.
• 24:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Thank God I was not flying on Delta Airlines, but you know, because I had friends who were and they were going through hell and I was nervous about my flights but they all happened fine, thank goodness.
• 24:27
  Matt Jacob: And this is.
• 24:27
  Matt Jacob: You know, we were talking about ai a minute ago, but this is just another example of um, a different example, not necessarily with photography, but a different example of how ai can really pose threats to society, right, if?
• 24:42
  Matt Jacob: Absolutely gets their hands on it.
• 24:44
  Matt Jacob: I know they're trying to introduce bills in the us about legislating or like being careful with really huge um language models that are that are getting built, but, um, yes, definitely something to be wary of, and it's again.
• 24:59
  Matt Jacob: It's going to happen fast, isn't it?
• 25:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: it's just everything's happening faster than we can change laws.
• 25:04
  Matt Jacob: That's the scary thing yeah, they'll be writing the laws for us, right, exactly, yes, yes, yes, yeah.
• 25:11
  Matt Jacob: Am I correct in thinking you've done a lot of fashion work and a lot of kind of magazine work?
• 25:16
  Matt Jacob: Tell us a little bit about the fashion industry.
• 25:20
  Matt Jacob: But I'm more, I'm more interested again peeking behind the curtain like tell us some insights to how the fashion photography thing works and how people can get into it.
• 25:30
  Matt Jacob: And what's it like, is it demanding?
• 25:32
  Matt Jacob: What is your process behind it?
• 25:35
  Matt Jacob: Tell us, just tell us, your story of fashion photography.
• 25:38
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's funny thinking about that, because I have a lot of people who ask that question how do you get into this aspect of photography celebrity or fashion, beauty or whatever and I think the first thing anybody needs to do is study the first part, fashion.
• 25:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You got to study fashion.
• 25:56
  Matthew Jordan Smith: To be a fashion photographer, you need to be into fashion, be aware of it, the trends it's a very trend oriented business.
• 26:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So staying on top of the trends.
• 26:07
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So as you're shooting, you're shooting the latest, greatest, what's happening you know today, not what happened, like you know, three months ago.
• 26:16
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it's constant change all the time.
• 26:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And it's kind of cool being in Tokyo because you get out in the streets and you see it.
• 26:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You see the trends change and the trends here kind of trickle down everywhere.
• 26:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You see it.
• 26:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Every you know showing up sometimes like six years, I mean six months later in the streets of New York.
• 26:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's kind of cool to see, to see those trends happen that way.
• 26:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So, yeah, fashion's fun and if you're on top of the trends and what's going on and all that, then you should be a fashion photographer and put you a spin on it.
• 26:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I kind of got bored with fashion in the States but now, living here.
• 26:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's a totally different thing and it's fun and all that.
• 26:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So let's say you want to start off doing fashion photography.
• 27:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You start shooting your work, you put together a body of work.
• 27:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You want to tell a full story.
• 27:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's not just like one picture, one pretty picture, it's a full collective body of work.
• 27:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You want to tell a full story.
• 27:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's not just like one picture, one pretty picture, it's a full collective body of work that works cohesively to tell one unique story.
• 27:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And what's cool about being photographers?
• 27:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: No matter what genre of photography you're into, you get to tell your story.
• 27:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's what makes you as a photographer stand out.
• 27:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Your story, that's what makes you as a photographer stand out.
• 27:29
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it's your point of view, how you see it, and I think that's going back to your other question.
• 27:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I give myself advice.
• 27:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 10 years ago, it would be to follow the own beat of your drum to find out how you feel about fashion or portraits or sports or whatever genre of photography you're into.
• 27:53
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Find out what you enjoy about it and shoot your point of view on it, because that's going to make you stand out and it's uniquely you.
• 28:03
  Matt Jacob: I think that's really important and a lot of the successful photographers I've spoken to you included obviously have said the same thing.
• 28:10
  Matt Jacob: You've really got to know yourself first, right, and without without knowing yourself, you kind of don't know what your story or what your take or what your interests and what your voice is going to be.
• 28:21
  Matt Jacob: So there's a lot of kind of self-development first, but I'm interested in you picking it up from such a young age, having it, you know, with your father and going through kind of the early years just with cameras and photography around.
• 28:35
  Matt Jacob: At what point did you feel like you found your calling and you found your voice and your kind of niche in that?
• 28:44
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's funny thinking back to those early days I didn't know I'd found it.
• 28:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And thinking back to those early days, I didn't know I'd found it.
• 28:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's funny, like you know, I was trying to shoot and I'd heard people telling me like, oh, you need to have your own style.
• 28:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like, well, what is my style?
• 28:57
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And I hear people say that today, not knowing that my style was really coming out already, because it was just me.
• 29:07
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I remember the first time somebody walked up to me in the streets of New York and said I saw that cover of the magazine and I knew it was yours.
• 29:12
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like how'd you know?
• 29:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's like it looked like your style.
• 29:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like my style.
• 29:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then I started seeing it because it's funny, because people can see it before you can see it when you start shooting things that make you feel good and that's kind of like the, I think, the tipping point.
• 29:29
  Matthew Jordan Smith: When you shoot something that makes you feel good, that's your signal that, oh, this is coming from your heart, this is what you enjoy doing.
• 29:38
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You may not even be cognizant of it, but your body tells you, your emotions tell you that, oh, I love doing this thing.
• 29:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And once you find that out and recognize it, do that thing, whatever it is, more and more and more, because that's your style, it's what you enjoy doing, and that style doesn't have to be about you thinking like, ok, it's, you know, I only use this lens or this light or any of those things that we might think make up our style.
• 30:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's more organic and it's more kind of like your fingerprint.
• 30:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We all have our own fingerprint and it's you recognizing yours and using it.
• 30:18
  Matt Jacob: Do you worry about standing out from the rest of the competition or standing out from the crowd?
• 30:23
  Matt Jacob: It sounds like you do, but don't I mean.
• 30:26
  Matt Jacob: You just do what you do and it comes from the heart.
• 30:29
  Matt Jacob: But it's very difficult to not kind of see all these externalities around us, right?
• 30:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We're always going to see them, but I don't think about them at all.
• 30:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think we are all competing with ourselves and when you are on your path maybe it may not be in fashion at the moment, but given time, it all comes around I can tell you that for sure it all comes back around you just got to stay true to yourself and keep doing that work.
• 30:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think it's good to go out there and not just look at photography.
• 30:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Also, it's good to just go out there and look at beautiful art.
• 31:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Whenever I'm in New York, I go to as many art galleries as I can and look what's out there and take it all in, because it inspires me in many ways.
• 31:12
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's great for you as a photographer, as an artist, to get out there and just show your work that's uniquely you.
• 31:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So get out there and make work that looks like uniquely you.
• 31:23
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I love the fact that you go out and see galleries and museums.
• 31:26
  Matt Jacob: I mean, we're old school, I feel like I mean not many young.
• 31:29
  Matt Jacob: I may be wrong, Maybe not many youngsters do that these days, but, um, they go onto Instagram, right, that's their, that's their inspiration.
• 31:39
  Matt Jacob: But um yeah, tell me, um, tell me a story.
• 31:43
  Matt Jacob: I want to hear some.
• 31:44
  Matt Jacob: I want to hear something about the fashion industry.
• 31:46
  Matt Jacob: I want to hear.
• 31:46
  Matt Jacob: I want to hear something about the fashion industry.
• 31:49
  Matt Jacob: I want to hear, maybe, some story that you've kind of kept hiding.
• 31:54
  Matt Jacob: Give me some dirt.
• 31:55
  Matt Jacob: Give me something in your many, many years as a fashion photographer.
• 31:59
  Matt Jacob: I know everyone's just wanting to hear something.
• 32:02
  Matt Jacob: Give me something.
• 32:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's true.
• 32:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's funny because I started off being fashion but I'm known more for celebrity work and I've got tons of stories in both celebrity stories and fashion stories.
• 32:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know fashion and beauty you know.
• 32:16
  Matthew Jordan Smith: As a photographer, you are supposed to like, you know, tell your opinion of the fashion you know, use it as like this jumping point, I think, to make your work stand out.
• 32:29
  Matthew Jordan Smith: There are times when I've been shooting a story and I'm trying to make sure I stay in tune with my view of it.
• 32:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But you're shooting for a client and they may have different ideas.
• 32:44
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And when you are in the fashion industry, you're around a lot of creative people hair, makeup stylists, you know, and sometimes those stylists today makeup artists.
• 32:56
  Matthew Jordan Smith: They can be more the big you know celebrities than you you know, because they have a bigger fan base or whatever you know.
• 33:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Sometimes their opinion can sometimes get involved.
• 33:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And that's what happens sometimes in fashion, because you have all these egos coming together and a client and you're trying to tell a story.
• 33:16
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But people want to be seen as well.
• 33:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So there's one shoot I did and there is a well-known stylist who was on the job and today there's always behind the scenes being done and the stylists want to kind of like become like the star of this shoot more than the models, and you know what we were doing and you gotta stop and like put your body in check.
• 33:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, that's kind of the thing that happens today and, funny enough, you know, sometimes these, these styl makeup artists, they are so powerful online with their presence and their followers that clients listen because they want that, you know.
• 33:57
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it's it's.
• 33:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's changed a lot.
• 33:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's changed a lot.
• 34:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Before it was just about the fashion and the beauty and then the work, and now it's about you know, followers and who has the most followers and all that kind of stuff.
• 34:09
  Matt Jacob: Kind of crazy, kind of crazy, kind of crazy.
• 34:10
  Matt Jacob: It's just crazy how it's flipped right.
• 34:12
  Matt Jacob: It's just almost a race to the bottom.
• 34:17
  Matt Jacob: What about the celebrity side of it, then?
• 34:19
  Matt Jacob: That must be different, because there's one huge ego in the room and everyone is kind of pandering around that.
• 34:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Sometimes, sometimes for sure, I've got so many great celebrity stories, for sure.
• 34:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But with the celebrities ones that I shoot a lot I've become friendly with them and we have these years and years of experience.
• 34:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My first book I did was on 50 celebrities and it was me interviewing them and photographing them.
• 34:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That was called Sepia Dreams, that first book.
• 34:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But there's one interview I did of Sam Jackson I think about this a lot, Samuel L Jackson and he was talking about his career and I asked him a question like when did you know you made it?
• 35:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He says that's a funny question because success comes in layers.
• 35:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's not like this one day you just make it and all of a sudden you're just the man.
• 35:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's not like that simple, it's in layers.
• 35:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He said at one point I got my first three movie deal.
• 35:17
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like, oh wow, I made it, he said.
• 35:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But then it was quiet for a long time, to the point where he wanted to quit the business.
• 35:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then things start happening little by little.
• 35:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It was in stages and he told me about three different stages where he hit it and then it's nothing, or you hit it for a while and then there's nothing, and those things kind of like remind you that.
• 35:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh, you got to.
• 35:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I act because I love to act.
• 35:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Whether it's being seen as a big, successful movie or not, I love the craft.
• 35:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He says so for all artists.
• 36:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You have to love your craft, no matter what happens, if people are into it or not.
• 36:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Still love your craft With photography that's also important.
• 36:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Forget about the likes and who's like you know, seeing your content, into it or not.
• 36:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Still love your craft with photography.
• 36:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's also important.
• 36:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Forget about the likes and who's like you know seeing your content.
• 36:14
  Matt Jacob: Love your craft because, at the end of the day, that's the most important part and, at the end of the day, that's the only thing that's going to remain, like you're not going to look on your death, you're not going to be on your deathbed and look at your instagram profile it's definitely going to.
• 36:31
  Matt Jacob: So that's really really wonderful to hear actually from from such a titan in the in the movie industry, because I think about that all the time.
• 36:41
  Matt Jacob: Like you see actors in movies, you go.
• 36:43
  Matt Jacob: Then they, they suddenly they're not suddenly, but they they kind of surreptitiously become a very recognizable face and you go.
• 36:50
  Matt Jacob: I know this person, they've been in loads of things, but now they're suddenly a star and it's like I don't really know where they came from.
• 36:56
  Matt Jacob: But they've gone from step to step to step to step over years and years most of the time, with, I think, the very, very rare exception of someone just having a hit movie or having a hit thing.
• 37:07
  Matt Jacob: But yeah, I would have thought samuel l jackson was pulp fiction.
• 37:11
  Matt Jacob: I would have thought pulp fiction would have launched him.
• 37:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: No, no, no, it's funny.
• 37:16
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We all think about the those movies that we first saw him in.
• 37:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, um, pulp fiction is definitely one of those ones.
• 37:22
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That was just amazing for sure.
• 37:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But it wasn't like an easy road all the way for him.
• 37:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He told me this one movie where he he opened the move, says I'm the first voice you hear in the movie.
• 37:34
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He says he was walking down the street in New York City and it's him and the star of the movie at the time and ABI runs to this guy.
• 37:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is like years ago.
• 37:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Abi runs up to the other guy asking for his autograph.
• 37:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He's standing right beside him.
• 37:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He says nobody asked me for my autograph or anything.
• 37:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Right beside him.
• 37:46
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He says nobody asked me for my autograph or anything he said.
• 37:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And the guy says, oh, he's in the movie also.
• 37:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like, oh, you are.
• 37:53
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And today, to think about that kind of boggles your mind Like you know, yeah.
• 37:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So he let me know that, oh, this fame thing, this making it thing, it's, you know it's precarious and don't get you know all crazy about.
• 38:12
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh, I've made it, you know it's, it's you pay your dues and if you're loving what you do, those things don't really matter as much.
• 38:19
  Matt Jacob: And tell me how that kind of lesson has been applied to your career?
• 38:23
  Matt Jacob: I mean, you've must've had some amazing highs and some low lows.
• 38:27
  Matt Jacob: Can you share with us some of those and how?
• 38:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: you've learned from each.
• 38:31
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh yeah, it's funny because I think about Sam's interview a lot throughout my career, because there are points when you go through highs and lows.
• 38:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I was living in New York when, you know, september 11th happened way back when, you know, 20 odd years ago and I watched the industry come to a standstill.
• 38:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's a low and you work through it.
• 38:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I watched things happen around 2008 when the dot-com, not dot-com, when the financial crisis hit, all those things.
• 39:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You go through these ups and downs.
• 39:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I was at a point where I felt burnt out at one point in and I'm like, okay, I need to do something for for me.
• 39:12
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And I think when I start working on my personal project, it helped me get past the, the burnout feeling of just working for clients, because when you work for clients, all the time you're doing their vision and as a photographer, you've got to shoot something for you because that fuels your soul and tell me more about that.
• 39:31
  Matt Jacob: What is?
• 39:31
  Matt Jacob: What is any personal projects that you're working on now or any that you've been really proud of?
• 39:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I always had personal projects, so my my latest one now is a book I did on aretha franklin it's out now came out this year called aretha cool.
• 39:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I was actually doing press for the book.
• 39:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Actually get my most, my biggest, biggest press, I think ever.
• 39:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Like two weeks ago I was on the view and they were highlighting my book and whoopie showed the book as being one of our favorite books and that was really cool.
• 39:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So that's a personal project, but I have many.
• 40:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm working on another one now, like the book is out, but I'm working on another one.
• 40:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Even now that I'm working on another one, even now that I'm really excited about I can't say too much about it yet because it's a new venture that I'm scared my boots are shaking for sure, because it's an area where I've never been in before, but that's exciting too.
• 40:21
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think when you are pushing the boundaries and doing things that give you a bit of fear, that's when you are at your best.
• 40:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That give you a bit of fear.
• 40:26
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's when you are at your best Going to the unknown, because we have one life and you can't live it you know just being scared.
• 40:38
  Matt Jacob: You've got to go and put your work out there.
• 40:39
  Matt Jacob: I love it and that's the only way we get better.
• 40:40
  Matt Jacob: Right Is if we we put ourselves out there, we maybe fail, but we always learn from that failure.
• 40:44
  Matt Jacob: Or if we don't fail, great, we go on to the next thing, on to the next thing, making ourselves feel uncomfortable.
• 40:51
  Matt Jacob: I think, people, it's too easy to shy away from that now because we have everything we need in life with the most wealthy generation ever living today, and you know we just can do anything we want.
• 41:04
  Matt Jacob: If we want to go and watch 300 hours of series, we just go on to Netflix.
• 41:09
  Matt Jacob: If we want some food, we just order it on our phone.
• 41:12
  Matt Jacob: If we want to meet up with a friend or talk to someone, we just press the call button or what you know.
• 41:16
  Matt Jacob: It's just.
• 41:17
  Matt Jacob: We want to travel, we just book a flight you know it's it's so easy, now everything so easy.
• 41:21
  Matt Jacob: now we can just make our lives so comfortable.
• 41:24
  Matt Jacob: So it's almost such an effort, a very important effort to go and step, especially in the art, in the important effort to go and step especially in the art, in the arts world, to go and step out into the unknown, learn a new skill or meet new people or learn a new genre, or go and do something you've never done before.
• 41:37
  Matt Jacob: So I applaud you for that.
• 41:39
  Matt Jacob: And, um, just go, let's go back to the book a little bit.
• 41:41
  Matt Jacob: I read the call Tell me, tell me more about it.
• 41:44
  Matt Jacob: We, you know, want to tell the audience about what they're going to find in that book.
• 41:47
  Matt Jacob: I tell the audience about what they're going to find in that book.
• 41:49
  Matt Jacob: I've had a look through kind of the online version and kind of snippets from that and I'm intrigued.
• 41:54
  Matt Jacob: So tell me kind of where that started, how many years it's over, and tell me a little bit more about Aretha as well.
• 42:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: There's so much on Aretha Franklin out there.
• 42:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: People have seen the movies on her, they've seen books on her.
• 42:07
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Of course, her music is just ubiquitous everywhere, but there's not much on her from the point when I met her.
• 42:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I met her back in 2005, and I photographed her until she passed away in 2018.
• 42:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So because of my first interaction with her, which was 2004, 2005, and when I first met her, I'd done my research and I found out that she loved yellow roses, so I sent her yellow roses.
• 42:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Before the shoot, she calls me, we talk on the phone.
• 42:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It was great.
• 42:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Right before we even met, we had to talk on the phone.
• 42:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It was kind of cool.
• 42:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So the end of the shoot, that first shoot, was great.
• 42:46
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We're shooting in Detroit and I give her as a gift my first book, sepia Dreams.
• 42:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now that book is 50 celebrities and I'm giving a big celebrity this book and she goes through, she's looking at it and she stops and she looks at me and she says why am I not in this book?
• 43:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, put me on the spot and I'm like Mrs Franklin.
• 43:11
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Ms Franklin, I promise you in the future, in another endeavor, I'll make sure I include you in a book that I'm working on and when she passed, that was definitely on my mind because we worked together for like 13, 14 years, had a lot of great times together, I shot her in all kinds of situations and living through COVID makes you think about time differently.
• 43:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So when she passed away I had not done a book on her and I remember that first time we met and what she told me, the first real moment we had together, when she put me on the spot.
• 43:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like, okay, if I'd passed away during COVID, these images and the stories would be lost forever.
• 43:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I need to get this work out there.
• 44:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I have to work on this book of Aretha.
• 44:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Of my images that many have been seen but most have not been seen and the stories had not been seen.
• 44:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it's mostly photographs of Aretha Franklin between those years, 2005 until the end.
• 44:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's also some stories, like, for example, when you work with a client for a long time, you get to know them very well and I'm a big fan of her music and whenever I'd shoot her she would very often begin to sing, which was like having a free concert, and I shoot portraits, so I'm very close to people as I'm shooting them and a song is on playing.
• 44:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's her music and she begins to sing along and I loved this song and as she's singing, I begin humming with her and then, before I know it, I'm singing along with her and she stops, looks at me and she says Jordan, baby, don't sing.
• 44:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And the whole room is like dying, laughing at me, you know, and I'm still shooting her and getting moments and trying to capture the spirit of what just happened.
• 45:11
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But it was just a fantastic day, fantastic time and and I I love all those moments with her and I want to share that with everybody in the book.
• 45:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So that's what aretha cool is uh, those those last years working with the Queen of Soul Not just the portraits in studio but real life stuff and her being out and at parties and me sharing just a little bit of what that is like to honor her that last part of her life.
• 45:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's a book to honor the Queen of Soul last part of her life.
• 45:45
  Matt Jacob: It's a book to honor the queen of soul.
• 45:46
  Matt Jacob: Excuse the interruption very briefly, but I'd like to just take a moment to introduce you to a partner that has supported this podcast for a long time now, and it's Yore, a brand that truly stands at the intersection of art and craftsmanship.
• 45:59
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• 46:07
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• 46:08
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• 46:19
  Matt Jacob: Every piece from Yorei is ethically sourced as well, and it's locally handcrafted, ensuring that you're not just wearing jewelry, but an actual story, a piece of art and a connection to something far, far greater.
• 46:33
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• 46:44
  Matt Jacob: Plus, they offer free worldwide shipping, making it easier than ever to bring a touch of the cosmos into your life.
• 46:51
  Matt Jacob: As a special offer for my lovely audience of the Mood Podcast, you can click the link below in the description and use the code ARTOFINTENT at checkout to receive a whopping 20% off your first order.
• 47:05
  Matt Jacob: So don't miss this chance to own a real piece of the moon and experience the art of intent with your rate.
• 47:14
  Matt Jacob: Okay, I'm done.
• 47:15
  Matt Jacob: Promise I'll let you get back to it.
• 47:17
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, fantastic.
• 47:19
  Matt Jacob: What was it like shooting her in terms of technically speaking, when you've got her in, maybe in a studio setting, easy to deal with, easy to, I mean, I imagine, over after you've been shooting her for so many years, it becomes a little bit more familiar and a bit more natural.
• 47:34
  Matt Jacob: But I'm thinking of someone maybe new, with a new client.
• 47:37
  Matt Jacob: What was, what was it like with Aretha in those early days, getting her in the studio and, and can you give us any tips on how to handle?
• 47:45
  Matt Jacob: You know people, people like that.
• 47:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: you know celebrities, you know really prominent figures in whatever, whatever industry they might be in the first thing you've got to do is forget about them being that big celebrity, because before they're celebrity, they're just like you and I.
• 47:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I think if you go in there with that thing of oh, I'm shooting, you might feel intimidated.
• 48:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Being, you know, in in there with that thing of oh I'm shooting, da, da, da, da, you might feel intimidated.
• 48:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Being, you know, in the room with that person.
• 48:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And we are part of that team that makes people feel comfortable and makes them look beautiful or powerful or whatever.
• 48:17
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We are the ones that make the images that people see more than they'll probably ever see the person.
• 48:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So you have to know that you are a partner with them in making that image come to life.
• 48:29
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So when you have that mindset, you'll think about, okay, how do I make this person look great?
• 48:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Forget about who they are.
• 48:38
  Matthew Jordan Smith: How do you bring your vision to life?
• 48:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I think, when you dive into research and think about how you want to approach the shoot and you put together maybe you put together a visual plan of what you want to shoot, and then I believe in showing that to my talent, because they may not know you from the man on the moon, but if you go in there and say, okay, this is my idea and this is how I see you being shot, they have a visual in their mind and then you guys work together to make that happen.
• 49:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And people appreciate that.
• 49:11
  Matthew Jordan Smith: When you just go in there and begin being director, almost, and saying, okay, this is my vision, this is what I think I want to do, how do you feel?
• 49:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then collaborate together, that works very well.
• 49:24
  Matt Jacob: And what do you use for that?
• 49:25
  Matt Jacob: Do you use to like draw out mood boards, or did you just take sample images or I used to use mood boards and now I use AI.
• 49:34
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh, okay, so, which is a great thing to do now.
• 49:36
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now, I mean before, doing mood boards was so much harder.
• 49:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now it's very simple.
• 49:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You can you can use AI to make your mood boards and make your ideas come to life and then show up on an ipad.
• 49:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Or like this is my, my sketch, it's my idea that I want to do.
• 49:52
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Today is easier than ever before.
• 49:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The old days you had to make sketches and you know all that other stuff and there's no excuse now no, no, it's almost too straightforward, too accessible.
• 50:06
  Matt Jacob: Tell me a little bit, then, about how you imbue your style into these images.
• 50:12
  Matt Jacob: I mean, like you touched upon earlier, your style is recognizable to many people.
• 50:18
  Matt Jacob: First of all, who are you Like?
• 50:22
  Matt Jacob: Who are you and how do you like to have a photo presented?
• 50:26
  Matt Jacob: We could talk technically, or we could talk emotionally, but tell us, give us an insight about who you are as a person, in terms of your values and beliefs, and how that might translate into what we see on the screen.
• 50:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: For me it's definitely emotional.
• 50:41
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I want to.
• 50:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My goal on every job is to try to make an image that may become iconic.
• 50:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now, that's hard to do.
• 50:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's really hard to do to make an iconic image, but going into every shot and every shoot, every situation, I'm trying to make that iconic shot of that person.
• 51:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I just shot an image of a new client.
• 51:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This new client I just got this the other day.
• 51:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is a CD that I just shot here in Japan.
• 51:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is an artist who is my first time shooting, her first time shooting for this client, warner Music, japan first artist ever.
• 51:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And I want to make an impact and I put together music that I thought she'd like, because I read about her and found out that she loved a certain music.
• 51:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's, by the way, she loves Aretha Franklin.
• 51:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I played all Aretha Franklin music for her during the shoot.
• 51:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: She was in heaven and I'm trying to get this emotion out of her and hearing Aretha's music made her emotional.
• 51:43
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I don't want to pose people I don't like to pose.
• 51:48
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's not my style at all.
• 51:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I want to get a connection with the person and through that connection, try to capture a moment that's really a real moment of that person being themselves and hopefully it's an image that will strike a court of people forever.
• 52:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So also, my style is very tight.
• 52:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I tend to shoot, like you know, chest up.
• 52:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's me in my world.
• 52:16
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My entire 37 year career has been that.
• 52:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then me going and getting tight shots would be me coming in super tight.
• 52:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's me because I feel like there's all this stuff that happens right here and I'm trying to capture all that emotion, that energy, that feeling, that mood.
• 52:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That's what I'm trying to shoot and get on every shoot, every shoot.
• 52:41
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, interesting.
• 52:42
  Matt Jacob: Do you and you teach this.
• 52:43
  Matt Jacob: I know you do workshops.
• 52:45
  Matt Jacob: How, what do you teach?
• 52:51
  Matt Jacob: Where do you do it?
• 52:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And tell me a little bit more about the education side of what you've just been telling me.
• 52:53
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I love that part of it.
• 52:53
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's kind of funny.
• 52:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I never thought I'd ever, like you know, give workshops or teach and I remember the first time somebody asked me to do it I felt like you know, this was not my lane, but it has become my lane and I love sharing it.
• 53:07
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I just gave a workshop in Detroit and it's my first time doing it since COVID.
• 53:14
  Matt Jacob: And.
• 53:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I forgot how much I loved it.
• 53:17
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So it was like I actually gave a workshop and I gave a keynote speak.
• 53:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The keynote was packed and in the workshop it was a lighting workshop with only 40 people allowed to come in and they had 10 people waiting trying to get into it as well.
• 53:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But it was so much fun, I loved it so much.
• 53:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I love sharing the joy of photography and all that I've learned throughout my career, especially about lighting.
• 53:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I gave a lighting workshop and I'm ready to do another one here in Japan.
• 53:46
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I guess I could just launch it this morning on my Instagram.
• 53:50
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Here we are talking about social media again.
• 53:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I'm going to do a very unique workshop, starting here in Japan, in Tokyo, where I teach people about photography, lighting and teach people how to wear kimono.
• 54:03
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We'll use a Japanese model.
• 54:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We'll dress her in several different kimonos.
• 54:07
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm doing it with two other people.
• 54:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I'm doing it with another photographer and a kimono sensei, which is expert, like kimono expert.
• 54:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So the three of us will teach photography and the art of wearing kimonos and we'll shoot it.
• 54:21
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We'll have the whole workshop in a traditional Japanese house Super cool, something you can't get anywhere else in the world but in Japan.
• 54:29
  Matt Jacob: Wait, can we sign up for that Just on your Instagram?
• 54:33
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Yeah, go to my Instagram today and you'll see it in my bio.
• 54:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: See the link called Shutter and Silk.
• 54:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You can sign up right there for the workshops Cool.
• 54:43
  Matt Jacob: Awesome In the education space.
• 54:46
  Matt Jacob: What is it that you?
• 54:47
  Matt Jacob: You know, if we were to pinpoint and I'm going to put you on the spot, but pinpoint one lesson that you've learned along the way that you believe is really important to pass on to other photographers.
• 54:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Absolutely.
• 54:58
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is a big one.
• 55:00
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is a big one.
• 55:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: As photographers, we all feel like we're going through things by ourself, because many of us are working in small studios, or by ourself or small groups, and you go through these ups and downs and you feel like you're the only one going through them.
• 55:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But when you get into groups and find out that there's so many of us going through the same thing, you understand that this is part of the process.
• 55:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I have another course that I teach as well, and this course is an online course and it's weekly.
• 55:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So in the weekly, my online course it's photographers from all over the world, from Israel, from the UK, from South of France, from all over the United States, from here in Japan and with the workshop with my online course, there's an online component where they get all this training on lighting.
• 55:52
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But the real part of my online is every single week, no matter where I am in the world, we meet for a one-hour live session.
• 56:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: They are so incredible.
• 56:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: My course is called Photography Lighting Course.
• 56:06
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You can go to photographylightingcoursecom.
• 56:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You find the course, and last weekend we were on for two hours.
• 56:13
  Matthew Jordan Smith: People had so many questions and just talking about different.
• 56:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is every week.
• 56:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I've had this course now for like seven years and we go together every single week and people come like they're going to church, they do not miss it, and they're from all over the world.
• 56:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Sometimes it's like you know one in the morning, their time, but they don't miss it.
• 56:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And it's incredible to find people going through what we go through as photographers and finding out, oh, you're going through that, oh, I had the same problem.
• 56:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then you find out that, oh, this is what we all go through and you find out how to get through that problem together.
• 56:49
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's super cool and it's inspirational, it's educational.
• 56:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's great for me as the instructor, it's great for me to connect with other photographers who are doing what we all love Phot stories sharing, you know.
• 57:07
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Talking about gears you know, sometimes we can all be gearheads um and the whole process of how you, you know, make a living and make a life as a photographer so the lesson being uh, find a community or at least integrate and involve yourself.
• 57:24
  Matt Jacob: I found that when I started the main reason I started this podcast I just found that the photography community, by default, because it's quite an individual pursuit, is very well individual.
• 57:38
  Matt Jacob: There isn't really like a close knit, there's no teams, there's no groups.
• 57:42
  Matt Jacob: It's very difficult to integrate and when I started to kind of try and meet other photographers, a lot of them not all of them, but a lot of them were very like closed, closed off to their secrets and how they took photos and their client list and their contacts like, come on, guys, we're all in this together.
• 57:59
  Matt Jacob: Like I'm, you know, I'm trying to learn, so I think that's wonderful that you've created something like that.
• 58:05
  Matt Jacob: And there are many, many platforms like that around the world.
• 58:09
  Matt Jacob: They just don't get the notice and the exposure.
• 58:12
  Matt Jacob: I think that they should, but they are.
• 58:14
  Matt Jacob: They are out there, so that's that's really really good to hear.
• 58:17
  Matt Jacob: When we think about people in your cohort and in your, you know, joining these calls every week, they must look up to you, definitely look up to you as an inspiration.
• 58:29
  Matt Jacob: Who is it that inspired you back in the day?
• 58:34
  Matt Jacob: or over the years.
• 58:35
  Matt Jacob: Just give me a handful of, maybe, inspirations that have.
• 58:37
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Oh, man, so my biggest inspirations?
• 58:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I have so many, but the first one that comes to mind is Gordon Parks.
• 58:44
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Gordon Parks was a photographer who was like the man for me growing up.
• 58:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He was a Black photographer who was shooting for Life Magazine, doing these big editorials, shooting celebrities.
• 58:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He had this amazing career.
• 59:02
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So for me to see somebody, as a young man young kid at the time who looked like me, doing great things in photography and beyond, he was the first Black photographer first well, not the first Black photographer, but one of the first Black prominent photographers, first Black director.
• 59:19
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He did Shaft, the original Shaft composer, did all these amazing things and it was inspiring to read his story.
• 59:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I read all his books growing up about his life and what he went through to become a photographer.
• 59:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And then, years later, when I did my first book, I found a contact for him and I approached him about being in my book to let me photograph him and interview him.
• 59:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And, man, it was incredible for me to have my childhood idol in front of me and photograph him and interview him and I cherish that to this day.
• 59:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I cherish his interview to this day because he told me that first meeting that it's okay to be afraid to do something, but don't let that fear stifle you from going forward, and many of us do that.
• 1:00:11
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We have this fear.
• 1:00:12
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We had this great idea in the moment and then the fear kicks in and you never even try.
• 1:00:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: When I had that feeling, I think about Gordon Parks.
• 1:00:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now, there are many photographers who inspired me.
• 1:00:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Gordon Parks is definitely one.
• 1:00:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Ansel Adams is one.
• 1:00:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The great black and white.
• 1:00:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know.
• 1:00:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Seeing that work and seeing black and white images that can speak to you.
• 1:00:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Now, I don't shoot landscapes at all, but his work spoke to me and I think I discovered the power of an image and how it stops you and speaks to your soul through him.
• 1:00:55
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I've got many.
• 1:00:56
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I've got so many photographers that inspire me for so many different reasons, and and even even in my course, my weekly course, we talk about that.
• 1:01:05
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We talk about, you know, people who inspired us.
• 1:01:08
  Matthew Jordan Smith: We talk about books.
• 1:01:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: That inspires us.
• 1:01:10
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Um, I tell stories a lot with a lesson, because those things are super powerful.
• 1:01:17
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Um, if you have time, I want to share one with you.
• 1:01:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Please go ahead.
• 1:01:22
  Matthew Jordan Smith: This is this is fashion related.
• 1:01:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So I talked early about studying fashion, which means you're studying the fashion magazines, like the fashion Bibles, the Vogue's, the bazaars, all those magazines.
• 1:01:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: And for a long time there was this work that see every month in the fashion magazines and it was very different than everything else out there and I thought it was.
• 1:01:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I thought it was ugly at first.
• 1:01:47
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like, oh my God, how'd they hire this photographer to do this work?
• 1:01:51
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I didn't like it at first, but every single month his work was in the book in those magazines.
• 1:01:59
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like who?
• 1:02:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: is this photographer and it was at first.
• 1:02:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: The photographer in me was like, oh, you know, this is overexposed or this is this, is this?
• 1:02:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Is that?
• 1:02:09
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It was so different from everything else in those magazines it stood out.
• 1:02:15
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I learned his name.
• 1:02:18
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I'm like, oh, who is this photographer?
• 1:02:20
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I had to look him up.
• 1:02:22
  Matthew Jordan Smith: But every single month his work was in those magazines and it stood out he was not just shooting editorial, he was shooting advertising for big, big brands.
• 1:02:33
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Absolutely amazing.
• 1:02:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I talk about him a lot.
• 1:02:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I talk about him when I teach all the time, because Juergen Teller's work is uniquely him.
• 1:02:54
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He doesn't try to do what anybody else is doing, but what he does he does it consistently, which lets you know it's not a mistake.
• 1:03:01
  Matthew Jordan Smith: He does it all the time.
• 1:03:04
  Matthew Jordan Smith: His work, from the time I first saw his work to now, is consistent and that is key to being a photographer long-term, having consistent work.
• 1:03:14
  Matthew Jordan Smith: If you can see that work and they know it's you they can see one picture like, oh, okay, that's cool, but was that a mistake?
• 1:03:22
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Can that person do it again?
• 1:03:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Do they know they can do it again?
• 1:03:26
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Is it part of their style?
• 1:03:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Was it just?
• 1:03:27
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, haphazard With Juergen Teller?
• 1:03:31
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It's no mistake, it is intentional and it's beautiful.
• 1:03:35
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I have such an appreciation for this photographer's work now and how he inspires me to think outside the box, to do things differently and not worry about being accepted by everybody.
• 1:03:48
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Great, great photographer, amazing photographer.
• 1:03:53
  Matt Jacob: And a great lesson, and a great lesson to people, certainly the younger generation, who want to get a viral hit right.
• 1:04:00
  Matt Jacob: They want to get those likes and those stats behind their photos and it's a long game.
• 1:04:05
  Matt Jacob: It's a long game.
• 1:04:05
  Matt Jacob: They want to get those likes and those stats behind their photos and it's a long game.
• 1:04:08
  Matt Jacob: It's a long game and in that game we have to enjoy the process and enjoy the pursuit.
• 1:04:13
  Matt Jacob: Make sure we're just not getting disheartened by not getting likes or not getting follows or not getting recognition at first.
• 1:04:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I can tell you, I know that, being in this industry this long, it will not be around forever.
• 1:04:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It'll be the next thing.
• 1:04:30
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So when, when that's gone, when the like is past tense, what will you do?
• 1:04:36
  Matt Jacob: Well, now this conversation is past tense.
• 1:04:39
  Matt Jacob: What are you going to do?
• 1:04:39
  Matt Jacob: What's?
• 1:04:40
  Matt Jacob: What's the next?
• 1:04:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: what's the next few months and few years look like for for Matthewew jordan smith I'm working on two big personal projects actually and I'm excited to work on those hardcore.
• 1:04:52
  Matthew Jordan Smith: As a matter of fact, I I went out yesterday looking at new material um, looking forward to buying a new printer and and trying to print some of this new stuff on this new printer, um, and working on my other big project that I'm scared about but looking forward to that.
• 1:05:07
  Matt Jacob: Well, we will watch out for it and, in the meantime, thank you so much for joining me today and for speaking about so many cool things and hearing your stories and sharing them with us.
• 1:05:18
  Matt Jacob: So again, thanks for being flexible and thanks for the conversation.
• 1:05:23
  Matt Jacob: Thank you so much as well.
• 1:05:23
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Thank you, I've enjoyed this a lot.
• 1:05:24
  Matthew Jordan Smith: So thanks for um, thanks for the conversation.
• 1:05:25
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Thank you so much as well.
• 1:05:26
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Thank you, I've enjoyed this a lot, so thanks for taking the time to have me on.
• 1:05:28
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I loved it.
• 1:05:29
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Um, hopefully I can meet you one day in person in Bali.
• 1:05:32
  Matthew Jordan Smith: You know, that'd be great.
• 1:05:34
  Matt Jacob: Yeah Well, I go to Tokyo probably a few times a year, so next time I'm there.
• 1:05:39
  Matthew Jordan Smith: I would definitely.
• 1:05:40
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Let's have a drink and hang out.
• 1:05:42
  Matthew Jordan Smith: It'd be great to meet you in person.
• 1:05:43
  Matt Jacob: And until then, thank you so much.
• 1:05:45
  Matthew Jordan Smith: Pleasure Arigatou masu.