Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Mindwarp (1/4)

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Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Mindwarp (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker,
0:35
quicker, quicker. Last time on Oh no, I've fluffed
0:41
it already. Last time on a hamster with a
0:46
blunt pen knife. Doctor Who is back and fighting
0:51
his biggest enemy yet, Michael Grade.
0:55
Yes, the Doctor has returned for a new series, bigger and better
0:58
than ever before. Sadly, that's just the opening
1:01
shot and there's no money left for anything else.
1:03
So down to half the one time of the previous season.
1:06
Still, it looks pretty, doesn't it?
1:09
In the case of art imitating life, Doctor Who finds himself
1:12
on trial for his very existence by the dastardly Valyard.
1:16
Or, as I've always known him, the Brickyard, the backyard, the
1:20
boatyard, the graveyard, the farmyard, the scrap yard and the
1:23
Naca's yard. Gallifrey and Justice being as
1:27
daft as their collars. A simple inquisition into the
1:30
Doctor's activities turns into a trial for his life on the whim
1:33
of the Vaillard, who starts the case for the prosecution with a
1:36
trip to the Doctor's past, specifically to the mysterious
1:40
planet of Ravalox. Actually, it's not that much of
1:44
A mystery. It's Earth, which has been
1:46
dragged out of its orbit, set on fire, and left in charge of a
1:48
Mad camp robot and a madder camper Warrior Queen.
1:52
Hijinks ensue with Space Delboy Savilon Glitz arrives with
1:56
Rodney Dibber and tries to steal the mysterious box of secrets
1:59
that the Mad Camp robot keeps in his handbag, but succeeds only
2:02
in blowing everything to shit. Well, it's not, actually.
2:06
Before leaving the broken wounds of the planet to defend for
2:08
themselves. At least the Doctor and Perry
2:12
are getting on better now, so I can't wait to see what fun,
2:15
light hearted cosy adventure they have next.
2:19
And now the continuation. Welcome back to A Hamster with a
2:24
Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who Commentary podcast, where I have
2:27
to follow an amazing and wonderful recap of where we were
2:34
October when we recorded last. Good luck, sorry, good luck.
2:40
So here we are at the part 5 of Doctor Who in the trial of a
2:46
Time Lord, otherwise known as Part 1 of Mind Warp.
2:49
Philip Martin is returning after having a script cancelled Frank
2:55
Fuck and also having one of the great successes of the era in
3:00
season 22. I think we should celebrate that
3:03
and forget about Mission to Madness.
3:05
So mind warp, this is a story like absolutely detested with
3:14
all my heart when it was broadcast and I declared it the
3:18
worst ever Doctor Who story that I had seen.
3:22
I didn't think you had any detest in your heart.
3:25
I really really loathed everything about this story.
3:30
Why I was 11 and it's take it took a long time and I will
3:38
explain this as we go. But yeah, this has been a
3:41
journey for me and Mind Warp, so it's going to be very
3:44
interesting recounting this. If you say it's a journey, then
3:49
have you swung into the other direction?
3:52
I've swung massively in the other direction and I now I've.
3:57
Heard that rumour, yeah. I now believe this is one of the
4:01
absolute high points of the era. So yeah, but I had a really bad
4:09
reaction to this story from the beginning.
4:11
I did not like the atmosphere of this at all.
4:16
I mean, knowing you, how I know you, I can imagine why.
4:22
I mean, it has scenes of protracted torture, you know,
4:26
people being experimented on, the doctor behaving in a a
4:31
particularly despicable way. I can understand why perhaps
4:36
this, you know, sit your death. I know the sort of Doctor Who's
4:38
that you like. You know, in the mysterious
4:43
planet commentary, Joe, you said that we've got a sick Doctor Who
4:47
is the huge moral compass and the big booming force for right
4:55
and in this story, in the trial scenes, he really is that.
5:00
But in the story we're watching on screen, he isn't that.
5:05
And there's, it's so difficult to get back to where I was when
5:10
I was 11, when I, I didn't believe in in any of what he was
5:19
doing and I didn't. And because the story goes to
5:23
great pains to not explain any of this to you in any way
5:28
whatsoever, which I think is the fault of script editor Eric
5:31
Saywood. I, I loved what they did to him
5:38
in this and the fact that we don't get the answers and what
5:42
really happened. And so I felt all the time, sort
5:48
of watching this all the way through as we were going along,
5:52
that what we were watching was something that was hugely
5:55
corrupted, but we never got any idea of what actually happened.
6:00
Was he actually torturing Perry on those rocks?
6:03
Is that their last scene together?
6:05
You know, is that the last thing she's going to remember of him?
6:09
You know, it's as times gone on. I quite like that and that you
6:15
can put your own spin on it, but it's not good for the audience.
6:21
And it's very confused storytelling.
6:23
And I don't think that cut that still doesn't come out of this
6:27
very well. It's probably about as far as
6:31
you could possibly go with turning the Doctor into a
6:34
monster, isn't it? When you know, you go any
6:38
further and it's just not Doctor Who anymore, is it?
6:40
And at the start of. This very close to the yeah.
6:43
But it's very close to that here, and I think that's what I
6:46
didn't like at all. I mean, I like the fact that in
6:49
the commentary, we'll get into all this when we watch the
6:52
episode. But in the commentary, Philip
6:54
Martin does tell, you know, Colin wanted the explanation as
6:56
to am I evil? Am I the it's the matrix line,
7:00
what's going on? And no one had any answers for
7:03
him. And Philip Martin goes, no, it
7:04
was this in the commentary. This was, This is why you obey.
7:07
And Connie goes, oh God, he goes.
7:09
If someone had told me that at the time, that's how I would
7:11
have played it. Exactly.
7:13
And this is this is symptomatic of what's going on behind the
7:18
scenes, that there's so little communication between all the
7:23
creative parts of Doctor Who that the director isn't allowed
7:29
to speak to the writer, that the actor isn't allowed Who, the
7:33
leading actor isn't allowed to speak to the writer because
7:36
that's not in the chain of command.
7:38
J&T didn't like his writers speaking to people.
7:42
Eric Saywood doesn't care, quite frankly.
7:46
He's ready to piss off out of this show completely.
7:50
He's completely tuned out of this by now.
7:54
This is like, yeah, doesn't, doesn't matter.
7:57
And so you're left with the actors and the director trying
8:00
to find an answer that isn't revealed to them.
8:04
The script doesn't doesn't tell you.
8:07
What I will say though, and before we pass this over to
8:09
Fraser, who's been far too quiet so far on this game, but
8:13
unusually so, is I think that the director and the actors do
8:18
find really interesting things to do in the.
8:21
Story. Oh my God, yes.
8:22
Especially the director, because I think this is Ron Jones's best
8:25
direction. And you know, we, yeah, we don't
8:27
often praise Ron Jones. But he learned.
8:30
He learned a lot. I mean, he got.
8:32
Better as he went along. What?
8:33
Was it black orchid? Timefly.
8:35
Frontier. He's.
8:36
Been Infinity frontiers. Vengeance and Joss.
8:42
Yeah. And this.
8:43
So those last three. My my personal journey with
8:47
Mindwarp is it used to be that story that every time I watched
8:51
it, I had a different reaction to it.
8:53
And I remember I wrote a review on Stacey Smith's Doctor Who
8:58
ratings guide slamming it. And then I wrote a review a few
9:01
years later on Docoho Reviews praising it to the high end.
9:04
And I think it is a story where you can sort of slingshot, but I
9:08
haven't kind of settled down now on, I think this is my favorite
9:13
of the year because I like how bold it is.
9:17
I like how funny it is. This is a really funny script at
9:20
times. And you've got actors with great
9:23
comedy shops in there as well. And I just love how stylish it
9:26
is as well. It is a a crazy mix.
9:29
I'm not sure the show probably should have gone here, but it
9:33
did and the results are really interesting as a result.
9:37
Sorry Fraser, please say something.
9:39
Good evening everybody. Oh, you're here.
9:43
I'm here yes, yes. So just because you know, I like
9:47
to be different. I haven't you see sword on this
9:51
one. I kind of still feel the same
9:53
about it as I did when I first watched it, you know, back out
9:56
with the TARDIS tin when I turned 14.
9:59
And it's not my favorite. I'm not going to lie.
10:01
It's it's I wouldn't have say I have the same visceral reaction
10:07
that you did Simon of I hate this.
10:09
But I remember watching this one out of the four from that tin
10:13
and thinking, well, this is just this is my least favorite.
10:17
It's bit boring. It's a bit dull and it's a bit
10:20
and it's a bit too serious for my liking.
10:24
That was me as a 14 year old. Obviously I've had that years.
10:30
Some years. That years to and, you know,
10:33
coming back and watching it again, it's, it is still not
10:37
inspiring as a great deal. And I can see why you don't like
10:41
your statement. And I think it's comes back to
10:43
what you've said a lot of the times, especially about
10:45
something like Caves of Androsani, which is there's a
10:48
lack of hope in it. There is and.
10:53
I think, you know, it's it's one of the rare Doctor Who stories
10:57
that we get where the Doctor Who doesn't win at the end, but more
11:03
than that, that no one actually wins.
11:04
You know, you're kind of well left without a very like a
11:08
strong resolution that says, yes, Sil and Cave have been
11:13
defeated. The thorough elephants are
11:15
liberated and everyone goes off to a you know, Sonya, hop your
11:20
life or whatever. And Perry marries you, Carlos,
11:23
And he becomes an American wrestler, Yeah.
11:26
I mean that's a way shitter ending and the one we get to
11:29
this story though, right? This is unforgettable.
11:32
It is, it is an unforgettable ending, but it's, it's, it's so
11:36
bleak and it's so downbeat. And it's, you know, it's, we
11:41
thought last time we talked about sort of the Christmas
11:44
Carol aspect of this story where you've got the ghost of
11:49
Christmas past, ghost to Christmas present and the ghost
11:53
of Doctor Who yet to come. So this is, you know, the story
11:57
that is set in the Doctor's present.
11:59
But I think when you look at it, you can see the show itself
12:03
murmuring what's happening with the structure.
12:06
So it's not just a story from the Doctor's past.
12:08
That story is representative of Doctor Who as a show's past.
12:12
It's Bob Holmes past right there, and it's a very
12:15
traditional Doctor Who story. You know, you could have pretty
12:19
much, you know, Tom Big I could be in that story.
12:21
It could be Tom and Sarah Jane. It could be.
12:25
You know, it could very much be Patrick Trounson.
12:27
Yes, Damien Zoe. It could be Pert Williams and
12:31
Joe Grant in there. And this one is very much what
12:36
was, you know, very of its time. This is this is what the show
12:40
was like at the time, you know, video nasty stuff back again,
12:46
sort of the gratuitous violence back again.
12:49
The the dickhead Dr. is back again.
12:52
You know, we had a lovely four weeks of the doctor and Perry
12:55
Bane, you know, much nicer to each other.
12:57
And it feels like we've stepped back a bit going into this one.
13:02
So I think that's possibly part of the issue with it as well as
13:06
it just feels if you'll see would he, it feels, you know,
13:10
that sort of. I think this might be the
13:12
ultimate. Is it Saywood US award?
13:16
Well, someone sort this out for me.
13:17
It's Saywood. OK, I think this might be the
13:20
ultimate Saywood story in the IT is seriously bleak and the
13:25
ending is everybody inclined in the companion dies.
13:29
Yeah. Well, I mean it's it's even if
13:34
you if you just take this as the end and if this was the ending
13:38
and obviously we're going to get there eventually.
13:41
If you took that ending as the ending of everything and we
13:45
didn't have the sort of quarter in six weeks times, which says,
13:48
Oh yes, Perry's actually live and with your Carnus and you
13:52
know, WWE hero over there in the corner fighting the rock, then,
13:58
you know, even at that point you look at that last scene and it's
14:02
not really clear what's what is happening.
14:04
So who is winning those? Does Jokarnas walk out of there?
14:07
Does still walk out of there? I'll get carried out of there.
14:10
What about Crozier? Is he blown?
14:12
Is everyone blown to shit or is it just some people blown to
14:14
shit? Or in the one respect, it's
14:17
quite you know, it's a brave ending to put your episode in
14:22
and it's certainly a fantastic exit for Nicola Bright as Perry.
14:27
But at the same time, narratively speaking terms of
14:30
like a well told story, it's it's a messy end.
14:35
I mean, it's the end we've had. I think everybody dies in that
14:38
room. That's ultimately what happens
14:39
at the end of the story. I know we don't specifically
14:41
know that. It's also a great ending for
14:43
Colin as well, who gives one of his best ever scenes at the end
14:46
of this story. That that scene is is
14:48
phenomenal. His acting is off the scale
14:52
there. Another thing is what I think
14:54
this story does is, and Doctor Who obviously goes for a lot of
15:00
alien planets. And you know, Fraser, you and
15:02
me, we've been to Dolkis. So you and me, we've been to
15:05
Alzarious, we've been to a lot of alien planets.
15:08
But this is one of the very few times I think they've managed to
15:13
visualise an exotic alien planet in a really compelling,
15:18
expensive way, and I love it. I.
15:22
Love it on that level. Yeah, The, the, the.
15:24
You can see the money on the screen here in this story.
15:30
Well, especially for an 80s episode.
15:32
I mean, we probably should go and watch episode 1.
15:35
What do you? Think we should do I?
15:37
Suppose so. Who's going to count us in?
15:40
Come. On then I shall in 54321 make
15:49
episode go now. Well, I've got used to this this
15:53
theme tune by now and I really like it, so we're OK.
15:56
What is this? You now or you as a child?
15:58
Oh. Me, me as a child, I've been by
16:01
sort of five weeks in, I've really grown to like the Dominic
16:04
Glenn theme, so. Had you got used to all those
16:07
dramatic close-ups on Colin Baker's Hooter?
16:10
Yeah. Oh.
16:10
I don't think anyone got used to that, but we're we're up to
16:14
three out of four so far on our cliffhanger Collins. 3:00 to
16:18
1:00, so keep that going. I actually think the best one of
16:21
the season is in this story, thanks to some very savvy
16:25
lighting. But we'll get there.
16:27
We will get there. There should be a ship back.
16:30
We can't hear it, but Richard Hartley's music.
16:34
Oh my God, that is the best thing in this story.
16:37
It's so arresting, isn't it? The music.
16:40
And again, I think that's part of what makes the atmosphere of
16:44
this story. He only does one story.
16:47
I never understood why they didn't invite him back.
16:50
He sort of has a very dark under score, doesn't he?
16:53
That gives you, makes you feel a bit uneasy when you're watching
16:56
it. Oh, will someone do the line?
17:00
You're not. This is not a debating society
17:03
for maladjusted psychopaths. Oh, I'm off then.
17:08
See you later. The council's title?
17:12
It's the Valley Yard. Now, I don't know.
17:15
If you notice, look at that Time Lord to the right of the
17:18
Inquisitor. It looks like he's dropped off.
17:20
I think he's fallen asleep there.
17:22
Is he the one Pip and Jane were pointing out?
17:26
Will you tell that time you have to wake up, please?
17:30
Aye, aye. OK, so.
17:33
Back in the courtroom. Back in the courtroom, yes.
17:38
Colin. Colin.
17:40
Sit down and shut up. You 2 have wanted to say that to
17:44
me on so many times. You sycophant.
17:50
I'm so sorry, Sagasti. Sigh.
17:55
Sagasti. He is.
17:58
He's asleep. Look.
18:01
At him. So the family, I just presented
18:04
the Doctor's next frightening adventure and we're we're back
18:08
into that slightly meta thing that we've had in the mysterious
18:13
planet. That's right.
18:15
What about the box and the fact that Earth was pushed?
18:19
2 light years, of course. If you're going to bring that
18:22
up, you will need to put your hand up and wait until you're
18:24
spoken to, just like Colin Baker has, in the most exquisite,
18:28
childish, petulant way. He is definitely asleep.
18:33
Oh no, he's just turned around. Someone's woken him up, woken
18:37
him up. That's one of the most colourful
18:38
planets we've ever seen, isn't it?
18:40
Oh. Candy floss, clap.
18:42
Look at those lovely rings in the sky.
18:45
And these are all effects that I mean, basically they've got
18:48
their new, new effects box Harry, and they can paint
18:52
everything in these different colours.
18:53
So they're really going for it. And then over the next three
18:56
years, they hone it and they refine it and they, they play
19:00
around with it and it. I don't.
19:02
I don't think it's as vivid as it is here, though, because they
19:04
go, they go. For as vivid as it is here.
19:07
Lurid colours here. So it really does just come off
19:10
the screen. That's that thing that flies
19:13
over over the sky there. Did you see that, that little
19:16
thing that was it a bird? Oh dear.
19:25
But they're getting on quite well at this point, aren't they?
19:27
They're they're friends at this point.
19:29
Of course they are. Yeah, Corner.
19:34
He's he's, he's. Been a bit bossy, isn't?
19:36
He's being a bit. He's always bossy.
19:39
He is, but he's just come on, don't go and get your weddies or
19:43
anything. Just that's Colin straight in
19:46
the water. Yeah I'm I'm very no and it's
19:52
quite deep water as well when he's up to her backside a.
19:56
Very snazzy costume she's got on this time round, isn't it?
19:59
It is. I love this costume.
20:01
Actually, I think this is possibly her best costume of
20:03
all. I really like this one.
20:06
Colin, who was just called out the padding there.
20:11
Are you really look if you guys are off piece too much, I will
20:16
say are you really offering this inconsequential silliness as a
20:20
commentary podcast of. Course.
20:24
I was rocks. Bloody hell.
20:28
It does hurt the eyes. I think the only time there's
20:32
more colour on the screen is during various parts of Time and
20:36
the Ronnie, but that's it. Yeah, it's that costume and pink
20:41
skies. Now listen to what she says
20:44
here. Right she goes.
20:45
Oh yeah, dirty old warlord. That wasn't the only So even on
20:50
the off screen adventures, she's being perved over.
20:53
It's horrible, isn't it? I don't know what they were
20:55
thinking. I think Eric's award may have
20:59
just been a bit kinky. Dirty old script editor.
21:04
We know what was going through his mind.
21:07
Was was he a heterosexual? Eric's Hayward.
21:10
Yeah, Yeah. Well, now think about it.
21:12
He. Married the Doctor Who
21:14
secretary. What happened the next time a
21:16
straight man got in charge? Steven Moffitt.
21:18
All the sex came in again. See.
21:21
Don't give straight men, Doctor Who.
21:26
Oh no, wait. At the same time, it was John
21:27
Nathan Turner that was ripping off Nicola Brian's costume,
21:30
going Nope, not revealing enough.
21:32
Get him out. It wasn't a very solid argument.
21:35
If I want this phrase, I don't thank you for that.
21:38
Although, I mean, all you had to say was look at Chris Chipnall,
21:41
the most frigid showrunner of all time.
21:44
There's no sex at all there. It does look like a planet
21:48
though, doesn't it? Yeah.
21:49
It does. I feel as if I'm on the naked
21:53
sunbathing area of Forest Beta. Well, just outside J&T's house.
21:58
That's the one, yeah. And it literally is just outside
22:02
J&T's house. Haven't you visited here
22:04
recently? Have you not recently I have
22:08
been to this this beach, yes. Have you been inside that hole?
22:11
Sorry, no. I've not been in that hole.
22:16
There we go. Well done.
22:20
Yeah, I mean, to be fair, it does look like a very gay
22:24
planet, doesn't it? Bright pink.
22:27
But here we go. And again, as I said, in The
22:29
Mysterious Planet 80s, Doctor Who, the lights are always
22:34
turned up. It's always really light.
22:36
The lighting in this is phenomenal.
22:38
It's dark, isn't it? Look at those shadows.
22:40
I mean, they finally done it. They've got rocks that look
22:44
like. What the hell is that?
22:48
Well, apparently it's an old Doctor Who wants to repurposed.
22:52
Is it? Some of it is so I believe it's
22:57
part of an Iridium or or the the Maya beast.
23:04
Oh, the Maya beast, Yes. What has he been hanging around
23:07
since the 60s? Everything hangs around another
23:12
death doctor. It was only a rock.
23:16
Never mind. It's Brit.
23:19
The backyard in this is really different to how he is in The
23:23
Mysterious Planet. He's really calling this out and
23:26
she's stopping the Matrix to to point things out that the
23:30
viewers are watching and he's doing a proper prosecution.
23:33
Because we've got a again, we've got a very good scriptwriter,
23:37
but instead of playing the scenes for laughs like Robert
23:42
Holmes is, Philip Martin is taking this incredibly seriously
23:46
and is really invested in the Valley, are pushing the doctor
23:50
the whole time. What makes it interesting is, is
23:53
obviously the doctors in the court watching this frightening
23:56
adventure play out. He can't fight back.
23:59
He tries. But yeah, the evidence is
24:03
compelling against him. Yeah, and that's a nice prop.
24:09
That is the prop, isn't it? Yeah.
24:11
There's quite a few nice props in this story.
24:13
Yeah, the big door that costs more than Nicola O'Brien.
24:16
That's a very nice. The poor Nicola O'Brien, she
24:20
never should have sent seen that envoy, should she?
24:22
So what does that thing do? It controls the tides of the sea
24:25
and takes the energy. From the sea.
24:29
And it gives the Doctor one of his moments of your planet
24:31
should have been doing this years ago that we haven't had
24:34
since Tom Baker. So yeah.
24:36
It got split. We'll set here.
24:37
Dry ice underneath fabulously lit caves.
24:40
Emmy looks great. And Martha's dad.
24:44
Oh, yes, yes. What's the fellow's name?
24:49
Oh, well done, Batman. Yeah.
24:55
Oh, we're so good at this. Oh.
24:57
My, I was just talking about it the other day as well.
25:01
Is it Trevor? Trevor Laird, Is it Trevor?
25:10
If in doubt, just say Trevor. Trevor.
25:12
I could never work out whether his performance in this is
25:15
absolutely brilliant or not very good because he's kind of, he's
25:20
kind of world weary and deadpan and it's not always easy to see
25:26
whether that's a good performance or what.
25:30
Because he's, he's quite arched with it at teams as well.
25:32
Yeah, it's, it's, it's an affected wearyness at teams.
25:36
So I think he knows he's in a Big B movie just like Matrona
25:40
Carney does as well. Oh, she knows how to pitch it
25:42
though, doesn't she? She's.
25:44
Slow cow, but it's wonderful. There he is.
25:48
Now I'm sorry, how can you have a a mid reaction to any story
25:53
starring the great Brian Blessed?
25:55
I mean, it's the serious. Isn't it?
25:57
Yeah, even in 1986. I absolutely loved Brian Blessed
26:02
in this and I've only grown to appreciate it more.
26:06
Now you say saving grace. I'm going to say icing on the
26:08
cake. Oh, he's wonderful.
26:11
Of course he's well, I. Mean you've got your own blessed
26:15
you've got public record. Wonderful cup of coffee.
26:20
And you've got Nabil Shaban. Shaban as well.
26:23
You've got Christopher Ryan. Oh boy, you've got that one who
26:27
goes. Just go, I love.
26:32
Him. He's got Gordon Warren.
26:35
Who is? Yeah.
26:36
Not so great, Yeah. Oh, you've got the skedaddle
26:39
test now? On the count of three, I.
26:42
Like the skedaddle test? I think the alternative could be
26:45
much worse, don't you? It's just like young Crozier.
26:52
Or Young Frazier as we have on this call, but on the counter
26:59
free then gentlemen 123 that's. Wise.
27:04
This is great. This stuff is great.
27:07
And the two of them working together, and they're in their
27:11
simpatico, They know, Harry says, knows what the doctor's
27:15
going to do. Ideally you would see them going
27:19
out on a story where they're like this together.
27:22
A proper team throughout wouldn't.
27:24
You But this is not the era where that happened.
27:27
No, this is really not the era where that happens.
27:30
Oh, and I just thought of another thing that's incredible
27:32
in this the Lucosa makeup. Oh my God, the makeup is superb,
27:36
isn't it? Like I think he's really scary
27:40
when he comes out of the shadows in a minute.
27:42
Yeah. Oh my God, what's that?
27:46
Something's coming. Oh oh.
27:50
Here he is. Oh, here he is.
27:51
Here's Lucosa. Now try and look.
27:54
Perry goes first. I think the Valley of makes a
27:56
point at this, actually. Yeah.
27:58
Who's the first one in your companion, as usual.
28:02
That's why he keeps on. They're like Canaries going down
28:04
coal mines. And look at that make up.
28:07
It's brilliantly done. There is a bit of a shaky camera
28:10
moment here. Yeah, there we go.
28:13
He's got those teeth, doesn't he?
28:15
They can't actually shut his mouth.
28:17
Yes. Have you seen Brad Blessed
28:19
talking about it in the documentary?
28:21
It's so he's going. He couldn't talk with the bloody
28:24
things he's going because we're all falling about laughing.
28:29
But it's really good because he's really touching and he's
28:32
really. The music helps.
28:34
Crying the music really helps it's.
28:38
Just school, Butler. And he doesn't want to attack
28:41
her, but it's, and his nature has been changed and it's.
28:46
Yeah. I mean, you are right though,
28:47
this is proper. That's nasty, you know, yes,
28:50
that's the season 22 nastiness there that we didn't really see
28:53
in no, that's. The mutant in Revelation of the
28:59
Daleks. It's that that kind of feeling
29:01
which also I had a visceral dislike of.
29:06
Vivisection and sort of like island.
29:08
Dr. Moola. That's an that's an opening
29:11
episode, right? It's obviously it's plunked us
29:13
down on that very vivid planet. Then they've been attacked.
29:16
Then they had a little comedy piece, then they were attacked
29:19
again. And now all the mentors were
29:20
like, keeps throwing things at you, doesn't it?
29:22
This first episode. Oh, the music now, do you know
29:28
that? Yeah.
29:32
That's great. And it's a great.
29:33
Yeah, I mean that it's a brilliant fanfare for SIL.
29:37
Oh, could. You please, Ambassador.
29:45
You see a terraleptil? Sigh.
29:47
Painted on teeth. What did you just say in
29:50
Posicani and then? It's cell.
29:55
Could you guys please just do your best SEAL laugh?
29:57
Let's start with Fraser. Oh, very sexy.
30:03
Sigh. No.
30:06
Oh, you filthy bitch. Oh.
30:10
Joe has the better tongue action.
30:13
Yeah, lots of experience now, she says so, doesn't she?
30:17
I want to go, please just Take Me Home.
30:22
And he doesn't listen. No, and he carries on.
30:26
And that's. And is the difference.
30:30
Sorry? The difference is, is obviously,
30:33
you know, she's in I want out in Easter state.
30:35
Nope, not going to listen. Now compare that with the
30:39
previous story where we'll have that wonderful scene where the
30:43
way Bob Holmes writes it is, you know, our Doctor Who will not
30:46
just go back to the TARDIS and he says, you're right, Perry, we
30:48
must go on. And it's it's a beautiful, you
30:53
know, comic moon between them. Whereas that one is just really
30:55
highlighting the kind of the the nasty side of the relationship
31:01
that they've had up to this point.
31:03
And it's fascinating that Andrew Cartmel deals with that so
31:10
differently when when Ace says she's afraid of the Cybermen and
31:14
the Doctor takes a moment and just says, oh, Ace, I'm sorry, I
31:18
wasn't thinking. Do you want to go back to the
31:22
TARDIS and be safe? I've.
31:24
Been reading a lot of new adventures lately.
31:26
So like, you know, he soon forgot that once we he skipped
31:29
into the book, so he was sending off doing all sorts.
31:31
Yes. Let's not talk about those
31:34
today. Oh, like a so-called Witches of
31:39
Ender Heart. But yeah, it's it's the doctor
31:47
in full on. We're going to investigate this.
31:50
I'm invested in this. Yeah.
31:54
Any scene between Seal and Kev are love.
31:59
We'll be poor. Enough sill.
32:07
Yeah, I love this set. This set is really good.
32:10
What? The hell are they sitting on?
32:12
What are they sitting on? That sort of green stuff.
32:15
Yeah. That.
32:16
That ice sculpture that they've got in front of them.
32:20
It's a bit better than the ice sculpture from Dragon fire in it
32:23
it. Is, I mean, this, this story is,
32:26
it's designed by Andrew Howell Davis, who designed The
32:29
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
32:31
It's the only Doctor Who that he ever did.
32:34
And he's really, really good. His sets are fantastic.
32:37
It's the only one he's designed. It's the only one this guy has
32:41
scored. Yeah.
32:43
And we're saying it looks and sounds better than everything
32:46
around. It.
32:48
Well, there we go. I do love a good throbbing
32:52
brain, don't you? A good dropping member stop.
32:59
It. I mean Brian Blessed has been
33:02
unconscious for most of this episode.
33:04
I think it's definitely pick up in episode 2 when he wakes up.
33:08
Yes, delivery here where he just opens one eye and goes scum.
33:19
What the hell is that? You think behind him there?
33:21
What is that? There's all sorts of weird stuff
33:26
in this laboratory. It's a lovely set, isn't it?
33:29
It's like a big tent. Yeah, but there's that wonderful
33:34
shot later in the story where you see it from outside and you
33:39
get a sense of the scale and scope of it.
33:41
And with the matte painting, it's really, really good.
33:45
They've really honed that by this point, haven't they?
33:48
Massing in Oh, we nearly saw a good shot of the rocks head
33:53
then. See, now I think Seal and Kev
33:59
are sort of in an audition here for some kind of sitcom.
34:02
You know, they're like the Del Boy and Rodney of Thoris Beta.
34:08
They're comical financial exploits.
34:10
Well, this is it. Well, yeah, Christopher Ryan has
34:12
come from a comedy background. He is well known at this point
34:15
for the young ones and so it's not a surprise that he can play
34:21
this. 4 laughs but also makes make give a really brilliant
34:25
character. Just like Brian Blessed, he's,
34:29
you know, he's got the Shakespearean chops, but you
34:33
know, pride with it. What was it, pride with this or
34:36
because he was in? Blackadder, yes.
34:40
Yeah, not, not before this, yeah.
34:42
Was this before or after? This was after.
34:46
After Yeah. I think his comedy trops really
34:49
come to bear in episodes two and three and in scenes with Nicola
34:53
Bryant. It's everything he says.
34:55
It's hilarious. You know, I mean, going back to
34:58
what you said talking about that, that making of
35:00
documentary. I love the fact that on the blue
35:02
the other you know, there's got to be a Brian Blessed making of
35:06
making of. I think the bits that they cut
35:11
out with the making of makes a a making of making of purely for
35:14
Brian Blessed. It's.
35:15
Class have you ever seen his his one man show?
35:18
No, Oh my God. You saw him in job, Was it
35:21
Liverpool you saw him in? I saw him in Guildford and in
35:26
Welly. It's absolutely brilliant.
35:31
OK, well I just always remember him coming on and listen and he
35:34
walks on stage and he's, he bellowed out.
35:36
He said they asked me if I needed a microphone.
35:40
Listen, I don't need a microphone to talk to you at the
35:43
back. Can you hear me?
35:47
I, I saw about a convention recently, very small 1 McCoy was
35:50
there and bless it was there. And obviously they had the two
35:53
biggest cues. And I, you only got a couple of,
35:55
you know, like a minute with him to sign something.
35:57
And I just said to him, I loved your autobiography.
35:59
I said, you know, fabulous. I love to hear all your exploits
36:02
about going up the mountain. And he went.
36:05
He goes up the mountain. I wanted to go to bloody space.
36:10
That's all he said to me. That's literally it.
36:15
Oh, precious. Yeah.
36:19
Yeah, me and Steve had a photo with him, and it's just like he
36:22
just put on this. He suddenly seemed to grow in
36:25
size. That's when the photo was taken.
36:27
It was incredible. Can I ask you guys a question
36:31
right? Is this going for like a it's
36:37
not cheap like a cheap OB movie feel like with these sort of
36:41
weird comedy aliens her dressed up.
36:45
Look at how Matrodo Carly is dressed up.
36:47
Jesus Christ slave trader extraordinaire, the sort of camp
36:51
Gaza the must oh hello the must be guards behind.
36:55
Is it supposed to be like a science fiction B movie?
37:00
I don't think it is, to be honest.
37:01
I think it's, it's very much the sequel to the Vengeance on
37:04
Varos. They've got the same sort of,
37:08
you know, dress for the gods, haven't you?
37:11
Why are you funnier though? Don't you think it's Why are you
37:13
funnier? Definitely.
37:17
It is, but it's still got that nastiness.
37:18
You know, the, the, you know, there was, it's not like a video
37:22
nasty, but there is, you know, scenes of torture.
37:25
Like I say, they've already had sort of that island of Doctor
37:29
Maru sort of stuff going on. So I don't necessarily think the
37:34
going as a Bay movie because I think they would probably
37:36
hammered up a lot more. And I think, you know, Brian
37:39
Blessed is, you know, he's a fine comedy actor, but he is not
37:43
tearing the piss over this is he's not.
37:46
No, everyone's playing it seriously, but they're picking
37:48
up the funny undertones. They are finding the humor in.
37:52
Do you think people are playing this?
37:54
I think they're playing this like a sitcom off the time.
37:56
No, I think, I think they're really.
37:58
I think they're true to their character.
37:59
You're resultingly ugly assistant that's not a.
38:03
Serious line that is funny. You say that the finding the
38:07
humor in the line and the bringing that out, but they are
38:11
not, you know, he's not humming it up.
38:14
He's not, he's not kind of leaning into it.
38:16
He's a basic pirate. He is losing his milestone.
38:20
Look at it. It's slipping right down over
38:22
his eyes. Look.
38:23
Famous Barros, but it's a new version of the costume in grit.
38:27
He's changed colour. And you see how they've blended
38:30
the mask into his face so much better here than they did in
38:33
that there. They just sort of laid the the
38:39
head bit over his face, whereas here they've actually used
38:42
makeup to blend it in. You know, the techniques are
38:45
progressing. Yeah.
38:48
Ah, sigh. Sit down here so we can coax the
38:51
truth from your devious brain. Fraser, the rock didn't attack
39:01
you, did it. It did.
39:02
It didn't. Fraser won't mind donating his
39:08
sanity to the advancements of podcasting, will he?
39:16
It's a small donation, however. Four out of five.
39:20
Doesn't he look, he's wanking at the end of that episode, don't
39:24
you think? But like a quite a violent wank
39:27
does not. Stop saying smut where there is
39:34
no smut to see. So you may have very nonviolent
39:37
wanks, but don't speak for the rest of us.
39:38
All right. OK How do you think that?
39:43
What fared as a scene setter? If I was good, you know, it's
39:49
it's, it has set the scene, but we'll give you that.
39:53
Thank you. Thank you for that alarming
39:55
critique there. Thank you.
39:57
How was that as a scene setter? Yes, it's set the scene.
40:00
Thank you. I have just done it.
40:01
In my son. Amazing insights of Fraser,
40:04
Gregory. This is what happens when you
40:06
put that helmet on us and zappers with.
40:11
Oh boy, sorry. How was that as a scene set
40:13
aside? Well, yes, it set the scene.
40:16
It was lovely. What's that?
40:20
Supposed to be him. I don't know.
40:26
Now my brains want to mush. No, it's a very effective Part
40:32
1. I think we've got a very
40:34
interesting tone, very interesting setup.
40:39
And what I quite like is something we didn't really
40:43
comment on in at the start of the episode is that this is the
40:48
Doctor investigating something that he's been working on with
40:51
Perry obviously for a little while.
40:53
So there's a previous adventure that feeds into this.
40:56
So something else has happened after the mysterious planet
41:00
because they've they've met this ward Order of Barn.
41:03
He's got a gun that he shouldn't have.
41:05
And the Doctor is on his his crusade to find out why they got
41:10
this and following this up. So we have got that moral Doctor
41:14
Who is is sort of wanted to put things right and do things.
41:20
But the way he's going about it, he's forgetting how important
41:24
Perry is and how her feeling. He's not taking her feelings
41:27
into account through any of this.
41:30
It shows you as a moral crusader.
41:33
Sometimes you can forget the people around you.
41:36
Yes. Completely by the end of this
41:39
story. Yeah.
41:40
And when we get to to Vervoids, we really get that sense that
41:48
the doctor says is the Baliol says is your defence going to be
41:51
that you improve? And the doctor really has he,
41:55
he's not running it, he's not jumping into danger.
41:59
He's looking after Mel. She's the one who's going in all
42:02
guns blazing, and he's the one standing back.
42:05
And so there is a little bit of thought about what's happening
42:10
with the doctor that often goes unnoticed.
42:13
And I'm only just joining this together as I am speaking.
42:17
There is a bit in Vervoys where he deliberately says to Mel, oh
42:21
I'm going off for a non provocative stroll around the
42:23
deck, but he's going straight into the lion's den.
42:26
Yes, but he's not telling her. No, because he wants to keep her
42:29
out of it. Of course, it's Bonnie Langford.
42:31
So she's straight there, you know she's.
42:33
Stuck in the. Jen Fraser, a reminder of
42:37
something you said at the start of this episode of how the
42:40
mysterious planet is sort of Doctor Who past and mind warp is
42:45
Doctor Who present. So I'm assuming you're
42:47
foreseeing a wonderful future ahead with Pip and Jane Baker
42:51
show running Doctor Who after Terror of the Vervoise.
42:54
So she's in the future? It's going to be bright and
42:57
shiny and come as fuck. I'm very loquacious.